07 Aug 2013 19:27:45
Deeps

Sorry it's took me a while to answer.

First, personally, I don't think individual stats are everything when it comes to a team game and we shouldn't judge a player's worth to a team solely on them (even goalscorers). RVN is the classic example of this - fabulous player. Best pure striker I've seen. 95 goals in 150 games for us. And yet we had our leanest spell in the last 20 years while he led the line for us.

In terms of Rooney, I'm not jumping on the bandwagon and saying he's awful, and I'm not saying he wouldn't be a loss if he wasn't replaced.

What I am saying is that I don't think he's integral to the success of the team anymore and, therefore, we can't justify keeping him as our highest paid player. If he and RVP were fit and we were only going to play one striker, most of us would go for RVP. To expect Rooney to stay and play second fiddle to RVP is unrealistic. I personally don't think Rooney has worked hard enough to find a role alongside RVP (ultimately that's what did for RVN - he couldn't find a way to work with the newer players like Rooney and Ronaldo and disrupted the dressing room while that was going on). So, on that basis alone, we should let him go. I don't believe in forcing players who want to leave to stay - no matter how good they are. I think Rooney's been looking to move on, or at least not had his heart wholly at United, for a long time now. Prior to the RVP pursuit beginning last summer, there were some initial rumblings from his camp about new deal, ambition, etc. which were quickly quelled when the RVP news broke. He also did himself a lot of damage returning to pre-season in 2012 unfit and overweight - particularly when his place was being challenged for the first time.

He isn't the player he was in 2009/10, just after Ronaldo left, when he looked like he might get close to Ronaldo and Messi in quality. His touch is worse. His distribution is worse. His decision making is significantly worse. His attitude is also worse. My personal opinion that only the last one can be completely fixed. He hasn't fulfilled his potential, which is what his huge paydeal was based on, and he won't do now. None of which is to say he's not a very good player - he's just not world class. Over the last 18 months, his performances for United have been erratic - he's won some games, but in others he has wasted large amounts of possession - which is a real issue when you are as big a focal point in a team as he is. I suspect, if he was fully motivated, he would improve because he would become less erratic. I don't think his best performances will get better, and I don't think there will be more of them, but his poor performances will probably stop.

He's been with us 9 years now. He, for a lot of that 9 years, has been superb. But I think, for his own sake and wellbeing, he needs a change.

Last season, in terms of on-field performances, Carrick, RVP, Rafael and de Gea were all better than Rooney and more important to the team. I think there's arguments to be made for Evans and Ferdinand as well. That's my view from watching the team, not just taking in stats.

My comments were probably unjustified for the prior season, but I do think Valencia was our best player that year.

I do agree with Ed007 that there are players we could more readily afford to lose. But I'm not convinced we could find a system where Rooney would play centre forward week-in week-out while RVP is at the club and, on that basis, if we're going to play him out of position, the loss won't be as acute as people think right now.

For me, the debate over Rooney should be secondary over the need to improve our midfield. We'd be less worried about having Hernandez as our main 2nd choice striker if we had strong options in midfield.

We've lost players before and seen people get melodramatic over it, and then things have turned out OK - RVN, Keane, Stam, Beckham etc. Losing Rooney could give Kagawa, Januzaj, Zaha etc. an opportunity to shine that they wouldn't have had otherwise. Or it might be a disaster. We won't know until well after it's happened. But I don't think we should keep him if he doesn't want to stay, and I don't think we should hit the panic button if he does go. We should be much more concerned if we don't strengthen the midfield, irrespective of whether Rooney stays or goes.


1.) 07 Aug 2013
Great post and I totally agree with every word. Players move on however united will continue to win silverware.


2.) 07 Aug 2013
DarkLard08

Good post mate! Good to see that you could atleast reasonably justify your comment rather than making a "sheep" like rant. I understand if not agree with a lot of your points.

I just think that we are sending him to the wolves based on one admittedly poor season. A lot of people on here think how many balls he lost, poor touch etc. it is because we watch him as closely as it gets. may be if we did that for player's from other clubs, we would find similar trends. For ex- Lewandowski, you would normally find people here giving a very positive report on how he plays and the fact that he is already world class. I have watched him a fair bit, I have seen him miss as many sitters as he has scored blinders. I have seen him linking up play brilliantly, I have also seen him be selfish and lose the ball or shoot from vague angles. I have seen him conquer all with BvB, I have also seen him look like a muck with Poland.

My point here is if you start observing players closely and literally start counting lost balls or missed passes, you will find not every one is at Xavi's level. INfact take RVP, while he was brilliant, if someone watched closely, his pass completion wasnt the best around. With Rooney, the bandwagon haters tend to dissect every missed pass.

I agree with you, we should actually be having a discussion on our midfield and not Wayne Rooney. I think SAF left behind a bomb and he could have easily avoided it.

Lastly, I will be just fine if Rooney decides to move on, but I will not be naive to say that we are ok without a replacement. He I s a bloody good player if not WORLD CLASS. I haven't heard Rooney or the club say something, so keeping my wits about me and I refuse to believe the "dressing room cancer" thing. Makes no sense to me and its all made up.

We will see what happens and I hope it happens sooner than later.

Deeps.


3.) 07 Aug 2013
Deeps, I'm thinking of setting up a support hotline if he goes :)


4.) 07 Aug 2013
Deeps

It's a really good point that we watch Rooney more closely than other players, and you're right that we do. But then, good players always get scrutinised more closely than less-good players.

I also don't believe the dressing room comments. At the peak of his Fergie bust-up, one of my friends saw him out at a restaurant with Paul Scholes, for example. He doesn't strike me as being the sort to get involved in that.


5.) 07 Aug 2013
Lol Stevie

Will it be toll free? Are you like a cop shrink or something? Anyways me, NoMidfield and Simmo are going to be the first 3 callers. Expect a call from the almighty KLOOT saying, "you see I said this all along".

Deeps.


6.) 07 Aug 2013
DL08

You are right mate, better players will be scrutinized. let's just hope we are done with whatever happens sooner than later. I am concerned about our midfield reinforcements to be honest.

Good you made that Paul Scholes point! I could see Jones and Rafael rallying around him during the PL medal distribution ceremony. Then you have people who will use 100 "what ifs" and try to justify him being a bad apple.

Deeps.


7.) 08 Aug 2013
KLOOT is lined up to run the hotline covering many subjects (Rooney, American bosses, logistical locations of United 'fans' etc ;).