06 Dec 2013 13:07:18
I have been pretty vocal since the summer about my belief that Moyes is not up to the job of Manchester United manager. I think that the last few months have provided mounting evidence that my assessment is correct: our worst ever start to an EPL season, consistently poor performances, and the team seems to genuinely lack confidence. Now I am the first one to admit that I think that we overperformed last season, and that the squad needs a major injection of money to bring it up the top level. However, the squad is certainly capable of performing much better than it has been under Moyes. Yet, every time I criticise Moyes I am told that it is unwarranted, that he will succeed and, most commonly, that David Moyes deserves more time, in most cases that we can't judge him until he has been at the club for a few seasons.

Now I can understand why people say these things. SAF's speech at the end of last season made people feel like that the 'real' United fans would support the manager no matter what happens on the pitch, and there is a belief, especially among younger supporters, that supporting Moyes through turbulent times proves that they aren't plastic fans.

The difference between Moyes supporters and me, is that I am of the opinion that Moyes needs to prove that he is worthy of the job. Moyes was hired in a completely unorthodox and unprofessional manner. In his own words Fergie called him and told him that he was the new manager of Manchester United. SAF chose a man who has never won a trophy, has no experience at the top level, and two matches of CL experience to succeed him. It is no surprise that not a single other top English or European side has ever looked at Moyes as a possible candidate. The closest he came was last season when it was between him and Benitez to take charge of Chelsea for the rest of the season. In other words, SAF hired a man who needed to demonstrate that he was capable of managing a top club.

It is much easier to dismiss the criticism of Moyes than to show how he has proved that he is the right man for the job. His two crowing achievements, according to his fans, are that he got Rooney back to his best and he played Januzaj. He has now been at the club for over 5 months, in most new jobs you get a 6 month review in which your employer takes a look at your performance and decides whether or not to keep you permanently. Now I fully agree that Moyes needs to stay until the end of the season, but in five months Moyes should have achieved some impact and began to stamp his mark on the team. My question to Moyes's fans is this, what positives has Moyes brought to the club?

What style of play is Moyes implementing and do you think this is right way forward? Are you impressed with Moyes backroom staff? Do the players look confident? Do they look happy? Do they look like they believe in their manager? How do you think Moyes has performed in the media? Has he made you believe that he knows how to handle the press or convince you that he will turn things round? How well has he handled the pressure? Does he look like he is handling the pressure better now than he did at the start of the season. And most importantly, what improvements have you seen at the club since Moyes took over? What evidence have you seen that the team is plying better now than they did at the start of the season?

It will be interesting to see people's reasoning for why they believe Moyes is the right man for the job because so far all I have seen are excuses and the repeated belief that if SAF chose him he must be the right man. And don't come back with 'the transition was always going to be hard'. Moyes was supposedly hired because he would make the transition smoother.

Danny Pughnited

{Ed007's Note - Can people try and remember to log in please. I don't like just deleting posts that people have obviously put a lot of time and effort into but I still need to look back through your older posts to see who you are, something I probably will have less time to do as the sites get busier in the build up to the January window. Cheers lads.}

1.) 06 Dec 2013
Sorry ed, sometimes if you're writing a long post the system logs you out before you send it.

2.) 06 Dec 2013
I used to have that trouble Danny, few times I spent what seemed like a week typing a post, and by the time I sent it I had been unknowingly logged out. I just stay logged in permanently now as my posts were ending up on all kinds of pages :-)

Let me just take this opportunity to say I'm really glad I'm not an Ed on here with January looming. I hope people show a bit more respect this time and treat them the same way they would expect to be treated. Their input on here make the site as good as it is and when Ed002 rightly took a break over the summer, we were the ones that missed out.

Here's to a slightly less stressful and miserable transfer window. If this place is the same as summer I may not make February :-)

3.) 06 Dec 2013
Danny - Good Post!

I too don't beleive that Moyes is the man for the job. Not because of trophys won, European experience but simply down to brand of football. The Manchester United way is to attack, to play with flair and creativity - something we lack. I get that we don't necessarily have world class players in all the right positions but those that we do have don't get played in the correct positions or to their strengths.

IMO we will see but I would have liked to see a younger more progressive manager at the helm of our club. If we are to lose matches I'd rather lose scoring and playing well than keeping it tight and dull.

4.) 06 Dec 2013
Yeah Danny I've been with you a few others since his appointment that he isn't up for the job, and for me the biggest element of this is the backroom staff.

Fergie was never a tactical genius, his man management and choice the right people in the right coaching roles made us play the exciting football that we used to. Completely removing the tactical edge that we had with people like Meulensten, Queiroz etc was foolish. The replacements for those names simply aren't up to the job.

Moyes will of course stay to the end of the season and almost certainly a lot longer, but if next season starts the way this one has then questions need to be asked. The second half of the season is so key for us, we need to show other players and teams that we are still the formidable Manchester United, a team that the top players want to play for. If we can't attract the top names we will suffer. yes we have talent in our youth system but that isn't enough, they need to be supplemented with top class players and right now, if I'm Reus, Vidal, Hummels or whoever. I wouldn't exactly want to be playing for us right now.

5.) 06 Dec 2013
Moyes should never have got the job it's far too big for him.It looks to me he could soon be losing the dressing room.I would also like to point out why does Phil nevilles kid play for man city academy.If he doesn't think utd are good enough for his kid then what chance do we really have & please nobody say he could of been at utd but got let go because that ain't true.He chose them over us.Major shake up is needed but with these clowns the glazers in charge don't hold your breath.Every utd fan can see where we need strengthening its not rocket science, we'll probably be in for Osman & Pienaar in January not gundi gran or reus as the papers would have you believe. Blackpool red

6.) 06 Dec 2013
Blackpool Red

That's something that's been playing on my mind lately, actually. Moyes has seemingly stayed as firmly rooted in his own comfort zone as possible - sacking the entire backroom staff to bring in the Everton lot. Then concentrating mainly on an Everton duo in the transfer window.

I could definitely see Pienaar being brought in - right sort of price-range, and an Everton player. Moyes just seems like a very unadventurous man in general.

7.) 06 Dec 2013
How much dribble and nonsense are you lot going to keep coming up with. Get behind the manager and allow him to retool the team in the next couple of windows and then Judge him.

8.) 06 Dec 2013
"How much dribble and nonsense are you lot going to keep coming up with. Get behind the manager and HOPE THE OWNERS allow him to retool the team in the next couple of windows and then Judge him."

There you go mate, fixed that for you. No amount of fan support will make a difference if our owners are happy to settle for less.

9.) 06 Dec 2013
So Shahram so you any answers for the questions I have asked?

A lot of people seem to like calling criticism of Moyes nonsense and spouting the mantra 'get behind the manager'. But can you provide any reason why you think Moyes is the right man for the club or any way in which he has improved in the last 5 months. I find it funny that all the people who are more than happy to dismiss the critics are finding it so hard to outline Moyes's positive contributions to the club.

10.) 06 Dec 2013
I didn't want moyes but we don't have that choice, what I've witnessed so far has been utter crap with no light at the end of the tunnel.ive said from day one the job was way too big for someone with so little experience on the big stage.the summer window was embarrssing and to panic at the last minute and waste 27.5 mill on a talentless lump was a joke.will the beverley hillbillys let him loose with a big wad of cash? who knows, would you.if by the january window we haven't improved and moved nearer the top 4 then why would any decent player jump ship with no guarentee of champs league football.i don't blame moyes entirely for this saf needs to have a long hard look at himself for leaving an old and mainly average squad.we won the league last year due to our main competitors being poor, we can see that they spent wisely intent on not making that mistake again while we have stood still.i think moyes will get till the end of the season, unless player or fan pressure takes him down and that could happen if we keep losing and drawing winnable games.rio has apparently moaned about team selection not being aware whos playing until the last minute, if he has said this then that's unproffessional from one of our senior players and doesn't help anyone connected with utd.it will be interesting to see if he can pull it around, but after baffling me and most fans with some of his formations, tactics and subs I can't see it happening, I hope i'm wrong starting with tommorow

11.) 07 Dec 2013
Danny

Everything you post is about Moyes being wrong for the job. It is like we were some fantastic team before he got here and what we are seeing is a sudden change. We have been poor for 3 years now and what has been the difference is that other teams have been worse and have had their own issues and we were able to scrape results(that is supported by english football results in Europe and Chelsea winning the cl was a joke and probably the worse team that has ever won the thing).

The difference now is that all those teams and the league in general has significantly improved and there is no easy games out there especially away from home and even at home teams like west brom have proven they can play the top teams away and cause you lot's of trouble.

We have not bought well, nothing through the youth system with the exception of Janusaj and just older as a team. Generally when teams buy 20/22 year olds like nani and anderson at what we paid for, they are banking on these guys to be the bedrocks/stars and the core of the team and at their peak given their current age but it has not worked out at all in our case and we have had to go back and rely on the old guard. A players like giggs still a better all-round option than the younger guys and that really is a clear indication of why we are where we are.

I posted a lot on this subject last year that I believe our scouting network is poor, evident by how our young purchases have turned out, so when I read Moyes is changing things, it is actually a positive step where you see it as another reason to criticize him.

Some of the changes that I read about is a good change and unlike you I don't view change as a bad thing, however anytime you change something it takes time and sometimes you have to take a step backwards before you take 2 steps forward.

The one thing that I will not argue with is the glazers purchase has been terrible for the club and has limited our ability to invest. We are unable to compete at the top end of the market and have gone from being a club that bought top tier players to second tier players.

I thought DM would have to go if we missed CL qualifications for group stages and finished outside of the top 4. As of today he has got achieved the first objective and come may we will see if he has achieved the second one.

In summary, we are where we are more because of the previous management and it is not DM doing. Does he get some decisions wrong, off course he does but so did saf, mourinho, ancelloti and the rest but that does not make him the wrong choice and I will wait and see how we go.

Finally, today will be difficult given the number of players we are missing and you guys can be football manager all you want and come up with 50 variations of what the team should be, but I will take an ugly 2-1 score in our favor and breath a sigh of relief and will praise him if we win today and not critics him for our style of play because we do not have the players to play stylish football.

12.) 07 Dec 2013
Shahram you're building a straw man here. The number one defence of Moyes seems to be that anyone who criticises him is a fool who believes that everything was wonderful until he arrived. That is simply not the case. Since I started posting here I have been talking about the fact that the squad was stagnating and that since the Ronaldo sale we had been investing in squad players instead of top class first team options. So as I have already said on numerous occasions, we flattered to deceive last year and took full advantage of the problems at City and Chelsea. The problems at the club are obviously not all Moyes making, but he has exacerbated, rather than solved, these problems.

I'm asking a very simple question: in his five months as manager what positive changes has Moyes taken that have convinced you that he is the right man for the job? It's not as if me or other critics are afraid of change, I was looking forward to a new manager coming in with a modern approach. The problem is that any of the changes Moyes have made seem to have set us backwards rather than propel us forward. You say that it's we have to go backwards in order to go forwards, but you have yet to give any actual example of a change Moyes has made that will improve the club in the future. The example of the scouting network is convenient because it is something for which we won't have any evidence of until the summer at the very earliest.

It's been five months I'm not looking for miracles. But I am asking for any evidence that Moyes is moving in the right direction and is the right man to bring the club forward. I'm still waiting.

13.) 07 Dec 2013
Like I said Danny, you see everything as the managers fault and fail to see how poor some of the players are. We have guys earning 60k to 90k a week who are not fit to wear the shirt. Blame him all you want but this lot should have been cleared out a long time ago.

14.) 07 Dec 2013
So you have no answer to my question then?

No examples of positive changes under Moyes?

And isn't Moyes the one who offered Nani a new five year contract?

It's not all his fault, but I have seen zero evidence that he is the man to turn things around and, evidently, you haven't either. So blind faith it is?

15.) 07 Dec 2013
No just change and they are always disruptive in some ways before they produce results and not everyone understands them or necessarily embraces them but that should not matter if it is based on the right fundamentals.

How old are you btw as we might be from very different generations and have different ways of looking at things.

16.) 07 Dec 2013
There is a glaring contradiction in what you are saying. On one hand you say that Moyes has made changes but we don't know if they're going to be positive, while, on the other hand, you imply that the changes will pay dividends if based on the right fundamentals. The fact of the matter is the fundamentals that Moyes is putting in place are what is in question. And since no one can give me a single example of why Moyes's fundamentals will help the club move in the right direction, I think people who believe Moyes is the right man are basing it on blind faith.

I'm old enough to remember what being a United supporter was like before SAF arrived, and that's where I can see us headed with Moyes and the Glazers. But I don't think it's a generational thing at all, I think those who refuse the place any responsibility on Moyes shoulders or accept that he is out of his depth must have their heads up a darkened crevice.