18 Mar 2014 09:34:11
Moyes picked the exact team most people wanted on Sunday and we got stuffed by the better team.
Was moyes found out or was the quality of the United first 11 found out. Probably a bit of both.
I personally think moyes should of packed the midfield and played 1 up top but he would of been slated for being defensive and if we had of got beat people would of been shouting we should of picked a more attacking team in fact the one he did.

This for me is a united team in transition for the first time in 20 plus year.
The team has got old and I think this summer we will see more key players leave than ever before.
Cm has been a major issue for years as has lb but this year so is CB.
Vidic and ferdy look finished and smalling, Jones and Evans simply aren't as good.
Carrick fellaini is an awful partnership to slow but it's prob the best we have, but I think fellaini was bought to replace Carrick . Next season I expect fellaini to start next to a more energetic, quicker cm.
I find the Mata signing a bit strange as he doesn't really fit in but he is a good player and I can only guess he was bought with a long term plan .Mata may not fit in to this team at the moment but I have a feeling he will have a different role next season.
In short I think fellaini and Mata are part of a long term plan and will be more a part of next season's team than this year's .

I think moyes will sign a CB, LB, Cm and a Lw and until he does I expect us to struggle.
Change doesn't happen over night, I would imagine the club are aware of this and are working to a long term plan.
Last year Liverpool were poor it's taken BR time to change Liverpool, moyes will need similar time.
Whether he is good enough is a different question and when you take everything in to account I think it is to early to answer .

1.) 18 Mar 2014
Forgot to log in

2.) 18 Mar 2014
"Moyes picked the exact team most people wanted on Sunday and we got stuffed by the better team."

Couldn't agree more, however if SAF was in charge of this same XI at the weekend, would the result had been the same? Honigstein says his sources claim that Moyes lacks people skills and "cannot lift people". Something which IMO is very critical here, players need inspiration and if they aren't getting it, it will show. This season it's showed. I am not convinced that spending £100m in the summer will be enough, I think the root of the problem is not the players, but the manager. This isn't his fault of course, it's the owner's fault for their poor choice.

3.) 18 Mar 2014
Jred I don't buy into this at all.
Firstly there is a hell of a difference in the Utd squad And the Liverpool squad of last season.The main one being that we are a squad of winners and a team with a never say die attitude that was instilled by SAF.No disrespect to pool but what have they won lately.
How can a team loose these qualities that they had in abundance?
Granted we all knew that there was the need for personnel changes but none of us could of envisaged the collapse and capitulation that we are currently witnessing.
Looking back to Sundays game

4.) 18 Mar 2014
Sam said something on the "other posts" page, that Brendan Rodgers said Manchester United have the best team, but Liverpool play better as a team. Something like that. I cannot agree more, on paper we have a better side than Liverpool and a better squad. Problem is we cannot play well as a unit. Can you imagine last season's Van Persie's prolific scoring accompanied by Mata's assists. With Rooney putting in 100% as opposed to last season's guff. Our first XI needs surgery without doubt, but IMO the biggest problem right now is the manager. The players are simply uninspired.

5.) 18 Mar 2014
It doesn't matter what the personnel are, in big games Moyes sends out the team with the same negative attitude and it isn't working. The message is to sit back, stay compact and try to contain. In other words, we play like an away team holding on for a draw, even when we're at home. This was Moyes default game plan at Everton, and nothing has changed this season. In every big game we allow the opposition to dictate the play, so we always start on the back foot.

Take one look at our record against the teams above us in the league: played 10, won 1, drawn 3, lost 6, goals for 6, goals against 17. That is shocking form against supposed rivals, and Moyes must take responsibility. We need new players and even our good players are playing poorly, but our loser mentality is what has completely killed our season, and that comes directly from Moyes.

There's a feature in MEN today listing Moyes's excuses after every defeat. It's embarrassing to read, but it shows what a failure of a manager he is.

6.) 18 Mar 2014
Syd
It's not as simple as having a good team on paper.
Look at Liverpool of last year as opposed to the Liverpool this year.
There is a lot wrong with this team and not just moyes.
Last year rvp was flying and had been injury free for 2 seasons.

Can you imagine united last season with an injured rvp

If I had the choice of spending 100 mill on new players or getting a new manager I would go for the new players as I think the quality of our cm and back 4 is a bigger issue than the quality of our manager.

What we are seeing IMO is a team that has key players coming to the end of there careers at the same time .
Ferdy and vidic for me where the best in the world smalling and co aren't in the same class and can't even stay injury free.
Evra enough said. Carrick is on the slide and our cm is a long term issue.
The form of our wingers is a long term problem.
Fergy leaving was always going to be massive and the new manager was always going to have to build HIS team.

This is a team truly in transition both on and of the pitch and I don't think it is any surprise we are struggling.

Moyes has a massive job on his hands and it will take longer than 6/7 month.

7.) 18 Mar 2014
Jred, exactly, there is little difference between last season's Liverpool and this season's Liverpool, but they have improved. That's what happens when the team want to play for the manager. I don't think certain senior players want to play for Moyes or they feel unsecure under Moyes. There is little difference between this MU side and last season's MU. In fact it's a better side on paper this season. Yet there's a 43 point swing. What's changed at MU?

David Moyes.

8.) 18 Mar 2014
I would get a new manager, someone who can inspire the team and then give him £100m+ to spend over the next few windows.

9.) 18 Mar 2014
The difference with Liverpool past season is that, even though they may not have won as many games as this season, you could see a definite improvement in their style of play; you could see that they were headed in a particular direction that was an improvement on previous years. Can we say the same about us under Moyes this year? I'd say not. If we were losing the odd game but we were playing football the right way then there would atleast be some light at the end of the tunnel but we aren't, we are pure undiluted guff. If a manager cannot get a football team playing a better brand of football, than the one we currently are, without having to spend £150million then you have to question whether he is the man to take you forward. People may say that SAF didn't leave the squad in an ideal state but when you look at some of the other managers that "may" have been available during the summer and ask whether they would have done a better job with the current squad, I'd say yes.

Of course, if Moyes goes, it leaves the question of who to get in. There are some fairly obvious choices, most of which I would be happy with, but I also find myself increasingly impressed with the job Pochettino is doing at Southampton. It may be too soon for him but if you want an example of someone who has, for the most part, improved the group he inherited then he is it. His signings aren't too shoddy either, Dani Osvaldo being the exception but even then he showed his ruthless side and demonstrated that he isn't afraid of making quick decisions.

10.) 18 Mar 2014
Sydney
See what happens when you give a manager time .
Look at some of the things said about BR last season by yourself and others.
There's no doubt he has proved people wrong .
I said last year this team wasn't as good as some think and it was fergys best achievement winning the title the way he did.
Nothing has so far proved me wrong .

I think united know the size of the task facing moyes and he will be given time let's see who is right .

I actual hope he goes but it's not up to me

11.) 18 Mar 2014
If we want permanent transition keep Moyes. This dip isn't about transition it is about a manager out of his depth who cannot inspire because he hasn't got the experience or medals to show experienced winning players he really knows how to win. We can buy 11 new players but if they don't believe and are guided in the wrong direction it will still fail. Times up Moyes

12.) 18 Mar 2014
The big difference between Rodgers and Moyes is improvement.

Last season Liverpool started poorly, but as Rodgers's tactics and training began to take effect the team visibly lifted their game, and toward the latter stages of the season Liverpool were one of the best teams in the league,

This season Moyes has started poorly and, if anything, despite two of the biggest signings in the club's history, we are playing worse. There has been zero evidence of improvement or tactical innovation and, worse still, Moyes can't even explain why we are playing so poorly.

The two examples are not parallel, they are polar opposite. Rodgers took over a failing team that had regressed tactically under the previous manager and modernised their approach. When he was changing the tactics and mindset they struggled for a bit, but since Christmas last season they have improved and improved. Moyes took over an ageing squad that, although winning games and titles, were in decline and tactically uninventive. Moyes has regressed the team tactically, and failed to generate any improvement in performances or results.

Rodgers had a clear plan for Liverpool. Moyes doesn't seem to have any idea why things aren't working at United, or how to fix them. He asks for time and promises a massive improvement, but is unable of telling us or showing us how he will do this.

13.) 18 Mar 2014
Danny, I agree, I have said all along that the team is suffering mentally.

14.) 18 Mar 2014
Sydney
It was only a couple of months ago you where arguing we would soon be top .
The table will look very different by the end of January etc etc

15.) 18 Mar 2014
Red Man, time was up for Moyes, when he was appointed instead of Mourinho.

16.) 18 Mar 2014
Interesting discussion. I have to agree with Jred.

We are a long way from winning and this is truly a transition and before we go up again you have to accept there will be painful days like sunday.

BR last year was the butt of most jokes and they were awful for long periods and got it together in the last 3 months of the season, when the games had no meaning what so ever and they played with no pressure.

The difference is the expectations with us is immense and DM has never had a moment to settle in, between the summer transfer fiasco and wayne rooney saga, injuries, tough fixtures and then some serious sunday league horror stuff from some of the players.

Whilst we are all in shock the scousers think it is christmas and can't believe what is happening.

I said this yesterday, this site is now obsessed with blaming DM for everything and anyone pointing out other issues with this team is accused of defending DM.

It is unfortunate it has come to this as most people had their own favourite for the managers job and moyes was not the one. The difference is some of us do not have an obsession with seeing him sacked.

Interesting that people also want to blame him for not motivating players as an excuse for the horror show some of the lads are having. These are some of the highest paid people in the country in any profession and are expected to perform.

17.) 18 Mar 2014
Jred, that was September when I said we could be top by bonfire night, hardly a couple of months ago. I fully expected the players to get out of the rut they are in, but I now believe it will not happen until the manager is changed. This team is suffering mentally.

StevieK, to be fair to Red Man, he knew Moyes would be a mistake and he was absolutely correct. He also said we needed a big character to take over from SAF and he was correct again.

18.) 18 Mar 2014
Shahram, I don't blame Moyes. Like I said you cannot blame a dog for being a dog. He is doing the best he can. The owners will need to take responsibly for bringing in a manager with no trophies, a manager with a poor record against the top teams and almost zero European experience. A manager that the players simply do not respect. What other top club would have even considered Moyes? This was one of SAF's blunders. He had so long to prepare for his retirement and he couldn't have ballsed it up anymore than he has done.

19.) 18 Mar 2014
Sydney
No actual it was just before Xmas.
As well

20.) 18 Mar 2014
Sydney

You are still assuming it is all the managers fault and someone else could get these guys to perform much better because we have a lot of good players.

I am not sure I agree with that view that this is a squad full of great players.

I think we genuinely overrate our players and that leads to laying all the blame on dm for everything that is going wrong.

Less than a year ago people were calling zaha as potentially the next ronaldo and powel as scholes replacement. Found both those statements quite funny but what is the point of even arguing with a view like that. Jones, Smalling, Evans are the next Barresi, Canavaro and Maldini :)

I really don't think many of the squad are that good or that we have bought well in the last 5 years. If people like to draw parallels our transfer activities in the last 5 years resemble pools in the later years of Benitez and the Dalglish. Overpaying for very average players.

I just hope if we make a change at the managers level, we also ship many of this lot out as they are genuinely average and getting outplayed by their opposite numbers week in week out regardless of the tactics.

As they say be careful what you wish for :)

21.) 18 Mar 2014
Got to agree with red man on the whole we need a manager with a big character it was my main argument for going for Jose .

22.) 18 Mar 2014
GCU

There does need to be playing changes we all know that. Interesting but if you looked at a Brian Cloughs European cup winning teams, individually they were nothing great but put together and inspired by the manager the whole became more than the individuals in what on paper would be better teams. Ours wasn't a great team and hasn't been since 2009 but together with purpose, inspired by a leader they played with one goal believing in what they were asked to do, trusting the manager because his experience showed it would work. Inspiring a team is a skill a gift sometimes that has defined great leaders to achieve more than the whole. Right now our manager hasn't inspired and doesn't appear to have a belief in where to go and can't demonstrate past work that shows it will work. Change the players but so much more is needed to make a successful team and Moyes has never demonstrated one iota of skill to show he can do it, in fact the opposite.

23.) 19 Mar 2014
Redman

The days of Brian Clough are long gone mate and with the money around today, you need to spend to win and spend consistently every year.

The leadership of this team got old together and now hardly on the pitch. We have failed to replace key players or have a succession plan for ageing players.

You know you have failed to plan when the next choice for captain is Rooney, Jones or Evans. Two are not even guaranteed to be in the first 11 when everyone is fit and one has almost walked twice on the club.

We are not in a good place but we are also not in the abys as you and some others like to make it out. There are fine margins and sometimes you are closer than you think and missing a few catalyst.

Unfortunately, I will be at the airport boarding a flight tonight and will miss the match but not too optimistic on getting through.