22 Apr 2016 23:50:35
Can I ask what I think is a very valid question.

Since the class of 92, 24 years ago, how many 'young players' can you honestly say we have promoted from within who have gone on to have stellar careers. I can't think of many at all off of the top of my head - and if anyone thinks Welbeck or Cleverley then please don't bother commenting.

My point is, only okay youth if good enough. One or two might make it, the majority won't. That is the right way to go about it and that is the way that Mourinho goes about it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 00:40:27
I will comment. What exactly was wrong with welbeck and cleverly?
You say the class of 92 was 24 years ago but you don't include the length of their careers. Was o'shea since then? Wes brown? Even a case for Pique and Rossi. There are others and I don't quite take your 1 sided post.

2.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 02:06:45
Youth get better by playing at a high level. How good might Phil Nev have been if it hadn't been for Gary?

How good might Butt have been of he hadn't had Keane and Scholes ahead of him?

How about David Healey who banged them in for N. Ireland against th world's best defenders but didn't get a kick for utd.

I is always easier to buy successful players when at a top club. The phenomenon with the class of 96 was that Fergy took the risk to play them. The drinking culture at the club made the decision easier for him.

3.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 06:05:56
DB, Healy was nothing but a showman for our country. Healy was then what Lafferty is now. They aren't good players, let's not kid ourselves.

4.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 06:20:54
Since the Class of 92, I agree we haven't brought through lots and lots of young players who have been good enough to play at the very highest level. However, what one of the top clubs in the PL has? Arsenal seem to have a reputation as a club who give youngsters more of a chance than others but other than Ashley Cole who has gone on to be an established top level player? Kieran Gibbs? Chelsea have Terry and Bertrand. Can't think of many others. Liverpool have Gerrard and Carragher.

We've still brought through Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Welbeck, Cleverley, Evans etc who have all played their part in us winning trophies. However, there are plenty of players who we have let go who are PL level players. Players like Drinkwater, Simpson, Shawcross, Brady, Chester, Bardsley, Gibson, Richardson, Foster and plenty more may not have had a big impact at United but they are PL level players.

I don't know off the top of my head but it would be interesting to see which club in PL history has had the most youth players come through and play something like 50 or 100 PL games.

5.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 07:47:47
Are we forgetting that we technically brought through pogba? Arguably one of the best centre midfielders these days. Then you have ravel morrison who would have been head and shoulders above most of the youth but had an attitude problem. I like lingard still has to learn some things but him playing has given us some much needed exuberance.

Then you have the likes of rashford, cbj, mcnair, blackett, sam johnstone, varela, adnan, and perrira that still have to prove themselves but look very capable with the right manager.

6.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 08:18:40
To add to the above, Danny Drinkwater's probably going to win the league this year and Shawcross has done pretty well too. Oh, yeah, some guy called Pogba,

{Ed001's Note - Pogba is not a United youth product, he was recruited as a quality player. You really can't claim him, just like Liverpool can't claim Sterling. Drinkwater is defo one for United, though the goal is not to develop them for someone else's team, but for your own. In that respect United are failing right now.}

7.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 09:00:23
I don't think we are failing. We have had injuries and a lot of our youth products have stepped up. Pogba wasnt signed as a quality player he was signed ashaving quality potential which we nutured.

8.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 09:16:22
United have failed in producing top quality home grown players with the odd exception since the CO92. As people know I recalled the message in the early 70's that another bunch of babes would come through and they didn't. Same happened after 92. We have been good at producing footballers, but not top class ones that make a difference league winning ones like Scholes, Beckham and Gary Neville. There are signs that may be about to change. Even so everyone is excited about our youth, yet how many are holding a place in the 1st team? Lingard, Rashford and I am not convinced about Lingard.

Rashford looks to have the right attitude yet we will see how he copes when defenders study him next season, that is when we will know more and can he cope with the spotlight. I liked CBJ and have been disappointed he hasn't had more time. FosuMensah looks a beast to me, did from the first time I saw him, but was brought in rather than raised, well done to the scouts on that one though. The club are constantly picking up 16 year olds from outside, those players will know that even if they don't make it at OT they will likely get a good career because of the focus, training and publicity our youth get.

It is no good saying how good might X have been if he had played more, like water players will find a level, if they are good enough physically and importantly mentally they will make the grade they are meant to.

If we can get a couple through it is great but they have to be good enough. In 95 everyone remembers the youth but some forget a little that it was three not eleven of them and they came into a strong winning first team with top quality around them.

9.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 09:34:58
When I did the podcast I made the point that there is a full team of ex United youngsters playing in the Premier League, just not for us. As Red Man says we are very good at producing pretty god players, not necessarily top to ones.

However, '92 was an anomaly which I don't think will ever be repeated. For so many top players to emerge at the same time, and for circumstances to mean they all got a chance was unusual. I was looking at the players with the most EPL appearances and we have the most in the top 20. Not only were they great players but they played many many games. I think if Gary Neville hadn't got injured he might have broken the England caps record.

As for now' how has a kid who is still at school managed to storm the first team and have such a huge impact. Be honest, who had heard of Rashford before he got picked? It shows what can happen when youngsters are given a chance. I think sometimes they hey are held back too long and would benefit from being given opportunities in the first team.

I also think TFM is immense, my concern for both him and Rashford is I spect the club to go noting for big names again which will stunt them. We have some good players, we lack leaders and dynamism so I hope we don't sign players just for the publicity.

10.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 09:39:11
It's a very small window of opportunity for young lads to break through. It takes a lot of things to fall into place. I just don't think you can blood in that many youngsters and put up a title challange anymore. You have to go back to start of the premier league, we were constantly challenging for the title year in year out against usually 1 team. Whether it be Blackburn, Newcastle, Arsenal, it was nearly only 1 team a year.
In Fergies last 10 years he was a lot more reluctant to give the young lads a chance. With the emergence of Chelsea and to an extent Liverpool, and then of course City, the gap at the top was getting smaller. When in the 90's you could claw back dropped points chasing 1 opponent, doing it in the 00's was harder because the chasing pack got bigger.
We had some talented lads in our academy that probably would have made it with us under different circumstances. But when the league title can be won on goal difference and has been. The margins for error become smaller and the risk of playing a kid instead of a seasoned pro becomes potentially huge. Case in point against Blackburn when Park and Rafael start centre mid whilst pogba is on the bench. We lose 3-2 and lose the league on goal difference. Now I know there's a lot of football to be played and lots of games you can pin point. But Fergie thought he would be better of with 2 "trusted" players instead of a young gem.
Long story short. I don't think teams that want to challenge for trophies can bleed in a crop of youngsters in the modern game. Especially in England.

11.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 09:43:37
I agree we have been rather poor since the Class of 92, but then how much has the footballing landscape changed since 92?

Very few top level teams will bring through consistent top level talent.

We need to be realistic. I don't expect us to bring through a Messi or Ronaldo every year or even once every 10 years. They are special once in a generation players.

My issue with us recently is this idea of signing squad players. Players such as Buttner, Djemba-Djemba, Miller even Owen. Players not signed for the first 11 but as cover.
Previously we had players such as Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher even Butt who maybe just fell short of first team level but were excellent back up.

Yes we want academy products in the first team, but IMO we should always have at least 8-12 academy products in our 25-30 man squad. We shouldn't be spending 16m on third choice LB's such as Rojo when we have players just as CBJ coming through. Even Blackett could have done a job as third choice, or Reece James. For me that is 16m wasted, plus his vastly higher wages and the agents fees paid. Rojo over a 5 year contract will probably end up costing us 50m (16m fee, 6m a year wages, 4m agents fees? ) is Rojo 50m better than CBJ, James or Blackett?

This for me is the issue, Imagine if Drinkwater had been given a chance with us. Would he have provided more for us this season than Schweinsteiger? Probably.

This for me is the issue, not giving our youth a chance means we miss out on them and it costs us in the long run.

12.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 10:25:08
Interesting comments guys. My point has been that overall, we are no better at bringing through our own youth products than anyone else - Southampton are the best at it.

So we should not judge a manager like Mourinho on how many he promotes to the first team because not many have come through since 92 that are worthy.

Only the best should play, it's not a case of making up the numbers.

Lastly, does anyone think we could see Drinkwater come back?

13.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 10:34:38
Shappy

I think SAF became worried about the challengers particularly City and went with experience over youth. I was at the Blackburn game where he ignored Pogba and having seen him previously in the youth and reserves I found that an unbelievable decision on the day. It was a sign of SAF getting worried and starting to lose the edge for me. I didn't understand some of the buys SAF made, like Buttner unless it was under financial pressure in trying to generate income by increasing their value.

The club does seem to be trying to bring in good 16 year olds and perhaps that is better than the Buttner type but the youth have to be good enough to rely on them

On Rojo, I think he is a left sided central defender, probably best played left in a back three rather than a left back. He may have been bought as LVG may have wanted to play three at the back originally. We would likely have seen a far better player then. I don't think James or Blackett were up to standard so Rojo is better but CBJ at left back has far more potential, which is why I have been disappointed he hasn't had more time from LVG, the manager some are applauding for giving kids a chance.

14.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 10:59:14
Fresh, I'm not sure you can say we can't judge Mourinho on his apparent lack of trust in youth. Of course we can if it is something we feel strongly about. Just because we have been poor at something doesn't mean we shouldn't aim to be better.

By that logic we shouldn't sack LvG as he has been better than Moyes. Being slightly better than someone who wasn't good enough isn't good enough for our club.

If we want the heart and soul back at our club then we need to stay true to our traditions. Youth being one of those. If Mourinho would be damaging for that then it should definately be counted against him.

Redman, I think your right toward the end Sir Alex did should less trust in youth. Maybe it was age, maybe it was pressure from other clubs. Either way its irrelevent now. Now we look toward the future.

The thing for me about having academy graduates in the squad as cover is although they may lack a little quality they have grown up at the club and play with more passion and fight than those bought in. Sometimes that makes the difference.

15.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 11:51:14
Mourinho would play the players that are good enough, he put Varane straight in ahead of Pepe.

People praise Pochettino. He has not been the reason why young English players have made it. The players from within the club have been developed by the staff and recommended that he play them. It is not that he has developed them all.

16.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 12:02:43
Mpez, I charge you with Treason!

17.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 12:20:55
Thats not completely true Fresh, and totally unfair to say.

Pochettino is more of a coach than a manager, you can see it in his reluctance to swap the tracksuit for the club suit. All coaches aim to improve their players, yes the youth set up at Spurs has done a wonderful job of developing the young talent within the academy. But Pochettino has givem those lads a chance, he works with them every day and tries to develop them. Are Alli, Dier and Kane better players now then before they worked with Pochettino? Yes they are, and it is down to the work he does with them on the training ground.

He did the same at Southampton before that with the likes of Clyne, Shaw, Lallana, Schneiderlin ect who have all said how Pochettino helped improve them as players.

Thats not to say Mourinho doesn't improve and develop players. It just tends to be that Mourinho would rather develop players who have already proven themselves at a professional level at another club, rather than trust in players who have only played youth football.

18.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 12:31:38
I think a lot of it is down to changes in the game.

Back in '92 SAF was able to introduce multiple young players to the squad without it having a negative impact on the teams performance. He had a decent foundation of experienced players to build upon and they were perfectly complimented by the passion and enthusiasm brought through by the youngsters.

These days teams will just sign an experienced player from overseas rather than promote youth. The huge amounts of money involved in the game make it a lot more difficult for managers to 'risk' playing their youth and the high turnover of players makes it difficult for a foundation of experienced players to be built.

Teams like Spurs, PSV and Schalke are great examples of how youth can be integrated into a side without it having a negative impact - but ultimately speaking - if at the start of the season we were given the choice of signing Aguero/ Suarez/ Neymar or relying on Rashford (bearing in mind that at that point we knew next to nothing about him) - I'm fairly certain we'd all go for the former. That we went out and spent silly money on a 19 year old from elsewhere is pretty demonstrative of that.

I expect there have been a lot of players in our youth set up since the CO92 with the potential to be as good or better - but our inability or reluctance to give them the same opportunities that the CO92 had will have stunted their development and prevented them from realising that potential.

I'd love to see the club build a strong core of young (20-25) players that are going to play together for a long period of time. Once we have that we'll be able to integrate some of our youth players into the side without it jeapordising results.

In the short term - we just need to put together a side capable of beating the weaker teams. At least then we'll be able to play our youth when we come up against the Villas and Sunderlands of the league.

19.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 13:27:14
Look at linders .
I think he has come in a looked good but does anyone want to give him a chance?
He gets stick every week and everyone wants to buy a superstar.

{Ed004's Note - I like Lingard. Seems modest and hard working but if we want to be competing for the top honours he shouldn't be a regular starter for us}

20.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 13:47:26
Jred - Do you really think that Lingard would have been given the same opportunities if ADM had worked out or LVG had been able to sign Mane or Anderson in the last two windows?

To be honest I'm inclined to agree with Ed004 either way. I think Lingard is a decent squad player - but he'll never be good enough to be considered a started for us. Perhaps he might have been had he been given a chance earlier in his career though.

{Ed004's Note - I would be happy to have him as cover for a top player. Him and Memphis should start next season as back ups who are capable of putting strong pressure and competition on a starter}

21.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 13:50:34
People forget that when SAF introduced the class of '92 the rest of the teams were pretty pants so he was able to risk it. nOt sure he would do it if he had been faced with Ch, else a at their peak, City with their millions, or Arsenal with their invincibles.

22.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 13:59:51
Completely agree Jred (urgh that felt dirty. Lol) .

If developed why couldn't Lingard become a top player. People seem to think unless your Messi at 17 then you won't make it at the highest level. Player progress at different rates, we need to give the lad a chance.

I'd be happy to not sign a RW this summer and give lads like Lingard and Pereira a chance.

23.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 14:05:33
Ed
So how do young players progress and improve?
Is it a case of if there not great from day 1 there not good enough?
Has linders been worse than herrera depay spider bastian etc.
For a young lad in his first full season in a team not playing great i think he has done well.
So do you give him another season to kick on? Or buy a big name like di maria .

People say give youth a chance but if they had the choice they would buy a big money superstar over developing a young player everytime.

{Ed004's Note - I think lingard has played well for us. But I don't see how he's going to push us or himself onto the next level. Would he get a look in at Chelsea, City, Madrid, Bayern, Barca etc. It's quite telling that, especially when played on the right side, the only player that looks dangerous and capable of beating a few men is Martial. Rashford seems to be able to do it with his pace but Lingard is neat and tidy on the ball but doesn't have the skill, pace or power to beat a few men and open the game up which is what we are badly missing in our attack. look at all the great teams in the world, their front 3/4 have the ability to go beyond their man}

24.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 14:35:22
Ed4
Coman couldn't get in to the psg team for all the superstars look at him when given a chance at munich .

When becks scholes etc broke in to the first team none would of got into the juve team at the time .
There where major doubts about scholes, not fit enough not quick enough.
Becks was to slow to be a winger. But they where given a chance .

Shaps spot on and like i say if people had there way we wouldn't have any youth just 11 superstars in the team .
Its the same people who where crying out to sign the "worldclass" bastion or the 35 year old ibra.

{Ed004's Note - Coman was 16/17 when he was at PSG I'm not sure how that's relevant here as Lingard is 23. I'm not saying we should sell Lingard but if he's as good as you're saying then surely if we sign a top talent like Ousame Dembele, Mahrez etc then he's good enough to start ahead of them? I suppose it Lingard gets injured we can always find an u18 to play there because I don't think Mata suits the right sided position}

25.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 15:01:10
Ed
Its not about how good i think lingard is, its do you want united to give youth a chance or just buy superstars in every position?

{Ed004's Note - I want to have players capable of bringing manutd back into the elite set up in Europe. I'm not saying sell everyone who isn't world class you're always going to need players like O'Shea, Lingard etc but he isn't good enough to be a regular starter for our club}

26.) 23 Apr 2016
23 Apr 2016 15:22:45
Ed
So a superstar in every position then.
What if the manager and coaches think linders have the potential to progress . Do they take a chance or just buy a big name.

{Ed004's Note - If the new man comes in and loves wingers who can't beat a man then yes let's go into next season with the expectation that Lingard is going to one of our main men leading us into a title challenge. I don't think I've once used the word 'superstar' yet that's being rammed down my throat ever post haha}