06 Feb 2017 09:30:13
We have played over 30+ games in this rubbish formation, with probably 6 good performances. Yet 65 minutes in 4-4-2 with the wrong players in key positions, and some of you are prepared to write it off and are mocking me for thinking it was a good idea!

It just showed me how poor the understanding is between our players. It was awful for the first 40 minutes, (half of that was 4-4-2, half of that was your beloved 4-5-1). So I don't get all these posts saying 4-4-2 is wrong and 20 minutes of football yesterday prove that?

Remember we had Rojo and Mata playing in crucial positions for that formation to work. Leicester were 4-4-2 masters last season, so argument says they are possibly the worst team to trial this on as they would know how to combat it better than anyone else.

In fact we weren't great second half either, we just took a few chances yesterday. Granted we looked better when not playing 4-4-2, but surely that's to be expected given the circumstances.

A bit of perspective needed when slagging off 4-4-2 and saying it's a mistake - a pre-season training in that formation with proper full backs and wingers and understanding being forged it would be fantastic again imo.


1.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 09:54:50
Sounds like you just sat down to write a list f excuses to me there Beast, you moaned about it, we tried it, it was absolutely useless and we changed and won. They are the facts, just being realistic. You will never admit you were wrong obviously, stubborn as an old goalt 😉.


2.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 09:59:54
I don't think anyone os mocking you for suggesting 442. People just winding you up for finding excuses for it not working yesterday.
Of course it would take more than 20 minutes of 1 game to give it a real chance.
But the whole argument is a little pointless really because the person that really matters is Jose and what he wants.
Despite you thinking you are the all knowing oracle on football, you, like the rest of us are just an armchair fan whose opinions and demands are a waste of breath. Jose is the boss, he makes the decisions. End of story.
Yesterday too us nothing about 442. What it did tell us was they there is nothing wrong with the way we have been playing. The only difference is that we took some of our chances yesterday. No more, no less.
Maybe if you stopped trying to re-invent to wheel to justify your own opinion all the time, you may just be able to chill out and enjoy it when the team you "support" wins a game of football.


3.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 10:09:14
Good morning to you to beast.


4.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 10:27:34
My response was tongue in cheek there Beast, As Betty says you don't need to make out like you are reinventing the wheel by suggesting a 4-4-2, its quite a well known formation.


5.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 10:51:26
Out of interest beast what is you're preferred midfield 4 if hypothetically we did make that switch again? we don't currently have the wingers to do this in my opinion.


6.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:16:01
Stretford 👆 completely agree with that. Nor a left back.


7.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:24:04
Good morning Beast,

I have also championed a 4-4-2 at times this season and couldn't understand why Jose hadn't experimented with it more often especially at home against the lower placed sides but I think yesterday we got the answer. Yes 20 minutes is not long enough to make a decision on anything but the fact is when he changed formation he changed the game. We stated to control the tempo, got more possession of the ball and Miki became a real threat. Massive credit must be given to Jose for realising this so early and acting so decisively rather than letting another game pass us by. Credit where credits due.

We've been playing well and dominating games for months the formation is not really the problem as proved by the 4-4-2 experiment. Yesterday we were just ruthless and clinical.

I remember Pogba had a similar chance to Miki against L'pool when he was clean through. Pogba never looked like scoring his chance, Miki never looked like missing and he scored a similar goal against Spurs in a very tight game. Its been our finishing rather than any problem in the formation that has cost us this season in my opinion.

Maybe we should be looking at how to get the best out of Miki rather than Pogba?

Make no mistake Pogba is going to be fantastic player for our Club but at the moment he just needs a more defined role rather than being allowed to do whatever he wants as appears at the moment. We we're led to believe he was a Scholes, Kante, Yaya Toure type footballer all rolled into one, a new evolution of midfielder so to speak but sometimes he can look like a jack of all trades master of none. He needs to be less selfish, more of a team player and just get back to doing what good midfielders do rather than wanting to do everything himself. We have other very good players in the team as well. I actually thought he was much more disciplined yesterday and had a very good game without being spectacular. More of the same please.

If we can continue to be more clinical top 4 should well be within our grasp. It could still end up being a very good season for us even without challenging for the main prize.


8.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:24:58
Morning everyone. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sniping or anything above, just my way of wording things I suppose. Happy Beast this morning.

Anyway Stretford - I'd have Herrera and Schweinsteiger in midfield, Shaw and Valencia as full backs. Martial and Miki as the wingers out of our current crop.

Might sound crazy but I'd try Pogba and Ibra up top with Pogba dropping when we don't have the ball for a game or two. Height benefits for whipping balls in, they both seem on the same wave length for linking, they can both hold up the ball and Pogba is too lazy to be one of a midfield 2 imo. The opposite winger can tuck into the middle to offer the dynamism that they don't when attacking at pace. Obviously replace Pogba with Rash if that doesn't work.

It would leave a lot of space in midfield, but that would mean we can capitalize on opponents committing men forward rather than just sitting 10 men behind the ball - we do nothing with slow possession so sod the possession. Every game seems to follow the same sort of pattern, we are like Liverpool and Arsenal at the minute - dominating games but on the whole not penetrating enough.


9.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:29:32
We simply don't have the players to play 4-4-2. When you have a midfielder like Kante who covers so much ground and is the best in the business at breaking up play and recycling the ball, then that's all well and good. Pogba isn't as effective in a 2 man midfield. Herrera probably could play in a 2 man midfield but we have been getting much more joy with 4-3-2-1.

Leicester were on top in the first 20 minutes and probably thought they had a chance at an upset. Jose changed it because it clearly wasn't working, I for one love that he's a proactive manager and isn't afraid to change it. Look at Klopp. Hasn't a clue how to influence a game from the touchline. For all his shouting and fist pumping, he waits far too late for substitutions and never changes up the system. Arsene is the same.

It clearly wasn't working. Jose changed it. We strolled the rest of the game. Beast mate, you're clunching at straws trying to find something negative. All round (bar the first 20 minutes) was a really good performance.


10.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:33:54
Miki isn't useful as a winger beast. Your side you picked would struggle more than our current for goals mate. Also Schweinstiger wouldn't cope playing a game a week, he's too out of shape.


11.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:55:51
Beast,

I'm sorry I have to agree with Stretford I don't think we have the wingers to make that system work and I'm not sure Bastien has done anything to warrant a place in midfield.

I see that as a more 4-2-4 formation because I don't think Martial or Miki are traditional wingers.

That's not to say that I don't think that team could get results, it's still full of good players I just don't think we'd be any better off than we are now. Just my opinion though pal.

I know what your saying about Arsenal and Liverpool but if we'd have scored as many goals as them we'd be much further up the table.


12.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 11:59:18
So pretty much exactly how we have been playing but with schweinsteiger instead of carrick?

Having pogba dropping would just make it a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 which is exactly what we have been playing anyway.


13.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 12:26:06
I think we should try the Christmas pudding formation with Tonka er I mean Fellaini as the sixpence.


14.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 12:45:33
I admit our current crop isn't ideal for this system, but I think it would be better than most think even with them. GDS2 - Pogba would be a lot more advanced in my system but if he didn't move he would be axed for Rashford. He is too lazy for a 4-4-2, but it might work with him and Ibra closer and linking more, I'd give it more than a random 20 minutes to make my mind up though.


15.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 12:52:30
if you go 4-4-2 it has to be with rashford alongside zlatan, his runs in behind give defenders something different to think about and would creat holes for zlatan to drop into, if you played pogba there him and zlatan would end up drifting into the same areas and it wouldn't work, martial too lazy too play on the wing in a midfield 4 in the premier league in my opinion aswel.


16.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 13:13:59
Sorry Beast but I think Stretford's right on this one. I have the same reservations about Pogba and Martial in that system. Unfortunately I just don't think we've got the right players for 4-4-2 not to be any better off than we are now anyway.


17.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 13:31:20
Fair enough guys, it's all if's buts and maybe's. I'd frankly be prepared to try anything to get back some free flowing football again and for what it's worth I can see the rationale behind what you are all saying.


18.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 13:53:37
You need the right players for 4-4-2.
Imagine if we'd have been able to sign Gerrard and Lampard, we'd have had the best midfield in the world:
Beckham. Keane Scholes Giggs.


19.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 14:09:44
We were rubbish playing 4-4-2, as soon as we changed that we looked a lot more comfortable.


20.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 14:15:51
Well said Beast, I was with you until yesterday and whilst I agree 20 minutes isn't enough time to put any theory to the test we certainly didn't look any better off for the change. Like I've said I just don't think we've got the right players.

I think I'm very much like you in the fact that I see Utd as the biggest Club in World football and 6th doesn't seem anywhere near good enough.

In reality it was always going to be very hard to replace Fergi. I honestly believe Jose is building towards something very good and I think we've just got to show some patience and trust his pedigree.

We've probably got 5 or 6 of the best coaches in world football in the Prem League at the moment plus Chelsea and City have the financial muscle to compete with anyone so the landscape has changed as well. We're now competing against 5 or 6 really good sides rather than just one or two as in years gone by and that's not even counting surprise packages like Leicester!

For all of the grumbling's going on at Arsenal at the moment let's just see how they cope when Wenger finally retires or is pushed out of the Club. The way I see it all the best mangers are already currently in the Premier League so maybe they should be carful what they wish for or they could end up in exactly the same position we are; Out of the comfort of the top 4 all together and even further away from winning the title we all crave. Food for thought.

Keep the faith my friend we'll be back where we belong very soon.


21.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 14:17:00
Herbie - we have been rubbish for a lot of this season (and previous seasons) playing 4-5-1.


22.) 06 Feb 2017
06 Feb 2017 14:25:41
Agreed Beast but i'm going to re-phrase my first comment.
We were rubbish (rubbish) playing 4-4-2 :-D.