Man Utd v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

12 Mar 2018 07:29:12
{Ed's Note - Tris Burke has posted a new article entitled, Man Utd v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective


1.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:17:19
A refreshingly honest review Ed and very magnanimous of you not just to blame the defeat on poor refereeing decisions.

I agree I've seen many similar incidents given in the past but at Old Trafford in such a big game maybe the ref aired on the side of caution and to be honest I don't think he had a good view of the Salah and Mane incidents. I wouldn't necessarily expect to get those decisions at Anfield.

I think your midfield 3 was workman like and maybe lacked that real quality needed to open the door. It's probably the first game in which you've really missed Courtinho. It might have been different if he'd have been on the pitch and I think you might miss him in the latter stages of the Champions League.

The main difference in the end was your defence. Lukaku was able to get some joy against Lovren and we we're pretty ruthless with our finishing.

From then on it was always going to be a difficult afternoon against a packed defence especially at OT and it just turned into the perfect afternoon for Jose.

The game was effectively won after 25 minutes and it just allowed Utd to defend and execute the plan without the crowd getting on their backs.

{Ed001's Note - I don't think we missed Coutinho so much as we missed the full backs putting good balls in to the box. Because Robertson constantly chose to pass backwards, your defence was never drawn out to close him down to stop crosses coming in. That was the biggest mistake for me in terms of Liverpool's tactics.}


2.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:20:50
I love your writing Tris and this is great. One thing I'd like to pick up on however is the recurring idea that a player going into the crowd shouldn't be a yellow. It absolutely should be as it is a crushing danger. I've seen small children being squashed by the idiot men behind them in their attempts to rush forwards to get to the player. I remember Fellaini last season (I think) having to rescue a fan in this very situation away from home. Anything that puts fans/ children in danger should be discouraged and players jumping into the crowd certainly does so.

{Ed001's Note - I understand that, but I have been in many crowds when a goal is scored and everyone rushes forward anyway.}


3.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:41:16
Ed good review of the Liverpool team individually. There seems to be a lot about the players not playing well or show up. Whilst I agree with some comments here and there I would rather say that ManUtd played well than criticize the Liverpool team.
I personally feel that the Liverpool team was complacent given that Lovren and Kloppity saying too much too loud before the game. Things like “coming to OT and blasting ManUtd” etc. Not very smart really. Should’ve just let the feet and ball talk.
I think Klopp is not yet a world class manager as some would profess he is. And still has a lot to learn from Jose. He should shut up more and just learn from the humbling defeat. Blaming the pens and ref etc won’t do him any good. A loss is a loss but the lesson is more important. Such is football.
That said I think not enough credit is given to Jose as a tactician and blaming him on boring defensive football is just plain silly. Obviously major credit must be given to the team for great execution, playing and defending well. I’d rather say we played well according to plan than saying Liverpool played badly 😉
As such the point is that we continue to improve and hopefully complete the team read for next season’s title challenge.

{Ed001's Note - learn from Jose? You are talking about the same Jose that blames everyone else, including the ref, for every defeat right? It is a common practice, sadly, amongst managers to look to apportion blame elsewhere.}


4.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:46:11
Right Ed, and that's a bad thing so anything that makes it worse should surely be discouraged.

Thanks again for the daily articles.

{Ed001's Note - I get your point. It is just a shame that players and fans can't celebrate together because of it.}


5.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:47:16
I don't know what the mind set of the Liverpool players was like before the game, but the fans and pundits were treating this as an easy game. It was almost like they weren't expecting us to come at them in the first half and were caught cold.

Klopp got Mourinho'd simple as that. Out of the elite managers Klopp is one of the worst at changing the game from the touchline. Whether it's his instructions or his substitutions, he's often left wanting in that area. The game was crying out for yous to stretch the play but everything was going through the middle and that played into Mourinhos plans.

It was a Jose masterclass. Two early goals, get to half-time unscathed. Concede possession and shut the game down. The weird thing about a Jose performance like that is, it always leaves the opposition thinking they were hard done by when infact were never in the game at all.

I think Klopp and Poch could learn a thing or two about seeing a game out. It's almost looked at as a weakness to just close up shop. I respect the fact that the have their footballing principals but Spurs could be in the quarter finals of the Champions League if they were a bit pragmatic. Klopp has dropped something like 50 points from winning positions in the league, truly stunning.

If Conte can find the will to care, the race for the top 4 should be interesting.


6.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:48:24
Very good review ed1 very fair. Also what did you make of Bailly? Minus that one moment of mishap I think he was really impressive coming after so long out. Hope he can remain fit for rest of the season and beyond.

{Ed001's Note - he is an excellent player, it was no wonder Jose was so keen to get him back in. You have really missed him this season.}


7.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 09:54:35
I can understand Kloppity’s reaction but I think Jose has mellowed probably due to age? Or maybe being “advised” by SAF or the board. But my point is that Klopp needs to learn about certain tactics to get to improve his team and not be too stubborn. I can even see Jose actually evolving. He is certainly not the Jose as when he was in Chelsea. He has probably been humbled along the way (which is good) . We are not talking about stubbornness here but rather be more opened to changing tactics, certainly not style of play.
Managers blaming anything and everyone else is always there as part of trying to survive their job 🤣🤣 no exceptions.

{Ed001's Note - I am not sure I have seen any change in tactics or style of play. It is still all about big, strong players overpowering the opposition and then soaking up pressure. He was doing the same in his first spell at Chelsea.}


8.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 10:05:30
Fair enough Ed you watch them much more than me and I don't generally like to comment on other teams as I don't watch them enough.

I thought you analysis was very fair considering the contentious penalty decisions and the fact we defended for the entire second half despite being the home team.

The debate around full backs often rages on our page. Sometimes I'm sold other times I'm not convinced. Part of me thinks that even the very best full backs can lack consistent delivery in the final third and if their good going forward they are generally suspect going the other way. To rely on them to consistently put quality into the box is sometimes a bit harsh. On the other hand most modern wingers or wide players now like to play inside so you need full backs to offer width and make the pitch bigger to allow space for the wide players to run into. I get it.

Could Salah and Mane have played a little wider and had a go at our full backs with runners from midfield providing bodies into the box? Sometimes it's about game intelligence and finding solutions to problems when the usual game plan isn't working.

I sometimes think the emphasis should be on the attackers to find solutions. The debate continues I guess I can see both sides.

{Ed001's Note - I just think the wingers had dragged everyone inside, so it is up to others to exploit the space. If the wingers had moved out wide then who is in the box to get the balls in?}


9.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 10:29:57
Yeah maybe its difficult. Sometimes there is no point in constantly trying to thread passes or run through spaces that don't exist.

I'm not talking about the whole game but maybe for a 10-15 minute spell make the pitch as big as possible and get runners from midfield into the box. Full backs hate direct players running at them and causing problems. I don't think Salah did anywhere near enough to make Young have to think about anything. Let's be honest Young had a great game but he can be got at and Salah made his afternoon a comfortable one.

Pep is great at making the pitch as big as possible and you often see Sane staying wide and making his runs in behind the full backs.

It something that Utd have been guilty of and in particular Martial and Rashford hence we've had the full back debate on our page. Mix the game up a bit is all I'm saying. Make the opposition think, give them problems, I don't think Liverpool did that on Saturday.


10.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 10:24:51
Understand your point Ed. Mine I felt he changed but yes I stand corrected.
For me my comments were more towards instead of saying Liverpool played badly why not ManUtd played well? because I feel if Liverpool Is in current table position it can’t be that bad but only because of the rivalry between ManUtd and Liverpool.
I think Liverpool is decent team but more like Klopp set them up wrongly or still need to improve certain positions. However I feel he is too stubborn that’s all and that could be detrimental to Liverpool but hey I’m not complaining 😉🤣. Thanks for response Ed 👍.

{Ed001's Note - I get you mate, I think a lot of people just don't like complimenting defensive play.}


11.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 10:30:41
Great review Ed001, interesting to hear from a Liverpool fan perspective.

I always like to consider things from both sides of the coin. You state that Liverpool didn't play well, but how much of that was down to United doing an excellent job of stopping them playing well?

Liverpool have a very quick and dynamic front line, who excel in one Vs one situations and isolating players then exploiting the space they create. What Liverpool lack though is a midfielder who can step up and become the second line of attack. So if the first line of attack doesn't work then the move breaks down.

In my opinion United took advantage of that, restriciting the space for your forwards and doubling up so they couldn't get one Vs one. You needed a midfielder to use the space in front of our defence as there was none behind it. For me your midfield is full of water carriers and has no one able to create. If you had Alonso in your midfield now you would have far more points than you currently have imo, and would probably be the team challenging City for the title.

I won't say much about your defence because I feel there is a real lack of top class central defenders around atm. In light of that it is more important than ever that a defence works well as a unit.

{Ed001's Note - a mix of the two. United defended well which stopped a major part of Liverpool's play.}


12.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 12:17:55
Did you enjoy that defencive performace in the 2nd half shappy?


13.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 12:44:17
Good post Mumbles another interesting read.


14.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 11:30:29
I think you do Can a disservice in your write up ed. I thought he dominated Sanchez all game, and he was more focussed on him than shielding the back 4.

Add coutinho into the middle and take out Milner or Ox and I think you score a Liverpool created goal - you missed him.

Totally agree with VVD. Wanted to glide round the pitch looking pretty rather than doing his job. Not sure I remember him winning a header from a long clearance all game and he didn't get round on the cover at all. The first goal he was just sauntering back as Rashford skinned AA.

The bigger error with AA for the first goal was being caught ball watching and getting caught out positionally. Always better to be narrow and press out to the winger than to be caught to wide and ball watching.

There are always incidents in these games. There were Liverpool challenges and incidents that went unpunished as well. None of the penalties shouts were pens for me.

Good write up. Would love to see the same from a man utd perspective .

{Ed001's Note - you haven't watched Coutinho play if you think he makes a difference in games like that. All he does is cut inside and shoot, over and over, 99 times out of 100 they hit a player or miss. Honestly, in games like that Liverpool have struggled for years now and Couts was one of the biggest reasons behind it. He has plenty of ability but he just seems to forget everything bar trying to just whack it in games like this. Unfortunately he seemed to get more dragged down by this kind of game than anyone.}


15.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 11:52:05
Accepted Ed and thanks.

{Ed001's Note - welcome mate.}


16.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 17:46:02
Totally agree with Mumbles. Mourinho had a plan and it was excuted petfectly apart from the unfortunate own goal. We played exceptionally well in the first half. And we defended extremely well in the second half. I don't see the problem with that. Mourinho got his tactics spot on by playing midfielders close to our back line, so Liverpool had no space behind.
Before the match, all we heard from the usual biased Scouse pundits was about Salah mane and fermino. No one spoke about lukaku Rashford and Sanchez. I think the Scousers thought they'll turn up and win. They were wrong. Klopp was wrong and they got beat and deservedly so.
Get over it.


17.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 18:58:52
Ken, I appreciated it for what it was. A solid game plan well played out.

It was a very different performance though to our one against Sevilla.
Against Liverpool we attempted to attack, we had a plan. Lukaku would isolate Lovern and win the ball and play a knock on to one of Rashford or Sanchez.
Also our defensive game was actually good. We limited Liverpool to only half chances and long range shots. We did it so well Bailly felt sorry for them and put one in his own net to stop them crying. Lol. Seriously though, against Sevilla we were lucky not to concede, against Liverpool we were so good they couldn't score.


18.) 12 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 20:59:05
Dont disagree shappy but i never mentioned Seville game.


19.) 13 Mar 2018
12 Mar 2018 23:59:50
Ed001. Good read and very fair really. I agree on your assesment of the back 4. Really vvd should have been marking lukaku with lovern as the cover.
If mata scores he would have been slated on the analysis but he never so vvd escaped the public scrutiny he also missed you best chance of the game.
From a united perspective for me the best thing was rashford and mctominay showing maryial and pogna that if they want to play they are going to have to beat their workrate. Even sanchez when nothing comes off for him works his ass off.
Its 3 points and no more but good for confidance belief and team spirit. I made the point yesterday jose is slowly getting his team together of the players that played on sat there was no lvg signing in the swuad all were either fergie acadamy graduates or jose signings. Plus mata.
The other huge plus despite his own goal was to get 90 mins into bailly. I think he has all the attributes to become one of the best centre backs in the world. He makes vvd look like a big girls blouse😂.

{Ed001's Note - Bailly was much better than van Dijk that is for sure. It is annoying to see a defender brought in for a particular job, then sit and watch him abdicate his responsibility in a big game only for everyone to put the blame on the poor bugger left filling in for him. I also don't understand why Can never front screened at goal kicks, he has done it in the past and it was very successful.}