15 May 2018 12:55:52
Shappy, I think you're one of the best posters on this site and its a pleasure to read your posts. But this idea that the be all and end all is about adhering to the club's ethos and tradition is just a romantic thought. The name of the game is putting pots in cabinets. Every United fan would love a team full of local lads born under the shadow of Old Trafford to dominate for years but that's never going to happen again.

Jose has done well playing homegrown players this year, yet you still manage to stick the boot in on this topic. Young players should be allowed to make mistakes I agree, but Rashford this year has been well below the standards he's set over the previous year. I think it was you (apologies if it wasnt) who said he gave McTominay an award just to show how great he was at playing youth. McTominay has been one of the highlights of the season for me and the lad looks a tidy player. The award shows every youngster at the club, if you apply yourself and do the job, you can get in this team. Next year the squad should have Rashford, McTominay, Lingard, Pereira and TFM. That's not a bad pool of players from the academy.

I'm with you on the style of football. Everyone wants to watch games on the edge of their seat and be entertained but you have to evolve to that stage. A team that has finished 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th and now second 2nd, can't just go gung ho. We need to be pragmatic on how we approach some matches (not all) . You'll be screaming at your screen no doubt saying Pep has done it at City. He has, they play some breathtaking stuff at times but that was down to the other 19 teams never putting preasure on them. The top teams couldn't keep the pace and the bottom teams consistently rolled over and had their bellies tickled, but that's one for the conspiracy page.

When Jose and Pep took over, off the top of my head I'd say De Gea and maybe Martial were the only two United players that would have gotten into that City team. Since then pep has bought 17 players, Jose has bought 8. The gap between us is pretty big. It might take a year or two to bridge that gap and Jose is the man to hunt city down.

You also say that Jose hasn't the best intentions for the club but only for himself. If Jose is doing well, then Manchester United are doing well. Before I go into the next part of my post, I'm 31, I was raised watching Sir Alex teams run amok for over two decades and just seein him in the stands always brings a smile to me face but the great man put himself before the club on many occasion.

He consistently forced players to join his brothers management firm. He announced mid season he was leaving the club in 2002 and cost us another league title because he wanted a better contract. The row with Magnier and McMagnus over the rights to a poxy horse set into a chain of events that shaped the club drastically. Fergie sued the majority share holders of Manchester United for 2.5 million pounds. They decide the sell all their shares to a Mr Glazer and we all know the rest. I'm sure there are a few more instances of Sir Alex putting himself first but as long as you're winning titles, it's all gravy!

It seems like I'm knocking Fergie but I'm not, I adore the man but fans look back over his tenure and I think they've reinvented some of the past. Does anyone remember that we were poison for most of the 20th title win? Do you care? Does it matter that the conveyor belt of youth stopped being produced for the last decade of Fergies tenure? Was it that big a deal? Every away game at Stamford Bridge, Anfield, later years the Etihad, any away game in Europe, we shut up shop and tried to nick a goal. Fergies bread and butter was not losing to our rivals away, and beat everyone else. Jose is adopting the same approach, we just need to more clinical against the lesser teams.

I'm not just signalling you out Shappy mate, I enjoy these debates because in the end we all want United to be successful, there's just many different roads to get there.

I'm genuinely curious though for all the fans who would like to see the back of Jose, who would you get and why?

1.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:13:19
One of the best posts I have read on this site mumbles. Outstanding, and I agree 100% with all of that.

2.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:29:16
Wow . Read it twice it's even better 😆😆.

3.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:42:31
Great post mate, had to agree twice.

4.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:54:33
Great post. Great examples of Fergie putting himself first.

5.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:55:11
Agree 100%. Great post .

6.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:55:15
Good post that mate.

7.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 13:59:42
Post. of. the. year.

8.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 14:16:47
That was a great mumble Mumbles.
I love the post and indeed read it twice and was impressed more. Well done. Post of the season.

9.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 14:30:47
Mumbles top post. For every ying there is a yang.
The bias coming groom certain posters is obvious. It appears as if There are a few that would like to see jose fail just because they can say told you so.
Each has their own opinion we all want the ssme thing ultimately which is a successful united team.

10.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 14:33:34
Brilliant post, agree 100%.

11.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 14:38:04
Top post. Agree totally.

Its bias/ hatred towards Jose that is obvious in some posters' posts. Negativity spreads like wildfire. It was a few to start with and then everyone hopped on that bashing.

12.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 14:51:45
Very Good post mate, a brilliant read thank you.

I've read the Jose debate with interest over the past couple of days and I must confess I can fall either side of the fence on any particular day.

What really swings it for me are the results and progress that has undoubtedly been made. 81 points, 19 clean sheets without having a particularly settled back four or any outstanding defenders (with the exception of De Gea), we've won every match when scoring the first goal an impressive 21 matches and reached another cup final so the results are there even if the performances have yet to come. The signs are ominous if you dare to look and believe in what the manager is trying to do.

We're now highly competitive despite still being in transition which shouldn't be underestimated.

I agree the style is poor, there is little doubt we're a hard watch and if they were giving out points for artistic impression we'd be mid table at best. The table doesn't lie though and there is no right or wrong way to play football. The only style that matters is the winning on.

I think there is still great suspicion around Mourinho in that he only wants to buy ageing, experienced players to play dull pragmatic football and at the end of it all we might have won some silverware but left saddled with a squad of expensive geriatrics with little thought for the future. I think this is a misconception for which there is little evidence. Lukaku, Pogba, Bailly and Lindelof are all young and yet to reach their peak and even Matic and Sanchez can still give good service to the Club despite their advancing years. Some are still suspicious of the fact he rarely spends longer that 3 years at any given Club but this may be because he's managed some of the biggest Clubs in the world who often sack managers as frequently as they change their first team strip. Then comes the implosion argument. It always falls apart in his third year. I think people should take comfort in the fact that Mourinho is a winner. He won't accept anything else from either his players or the Club. He'll keep pushing, fighting, demanding more. This may indeed see him fall out with certain players or even the board but he wants to win. My worst fear for Utd is a future spent in purgatory a manager who maintains the status quo, delivers top 4, plays attractive football, keeps the revenue steams and sponsors happy but delivers little. Mourinho will probably go one way or the other, he'll either be immensely successful or crash out in an explosive of argument and controversy.

I say for those that don't want to believe in Mourinho then trust in the numbers. The progress is tangible in the numbers and football cannot be measured by artistic impression. Mourinho will keep pushing, demanding, striving for more and for those that will never take to him he'll either deliver trophies or self destruct so it's a win/ win for you lot anyway.

13.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 15:51:34
Interesting post but I disagree with the conclusion and the angle. Obviously as we all support Utd we want to be on your side of the fence with this, but I'm keeping my red tinted specs off I'm afraid.

Every club will have its ups and downs, squabbling, mistakes, bad signings, bad decisions etc.

If you believe Jose is the man to take us forward then you can find good arguments for it, if you think he is another mistake then you can find a lot stronger arguments why that is the case in my opinion.

I would hire Jardim or another up and coming manager who doesn't think they are more important that the club - we need a young-ish manager with something to prove, a winning mentality, the desire to win games playing attacking football, proven ability at taking players and improving them, taking risks to win games.

Maybe pre-Pep the argument for Jose would be stronger, but we need an X factor now if we expect to compete at the top - on paper Jose has done fine, but fortunately football isn't played on paper. Our signings have been mostly poor, we look like a team lacking identity still, the progress of our talented players has been stagnant, big signings not pulling up trees - progress of our average/ squad players non-existent. It's all sub-par for me, aside from the points tally, which is benefiting from the poorness of the league and Jose's undoubted ability to grind out results. He is a master at this, but it isn't enough anymore.

The benchmark Jose is being judged on by his supporters is LVG - it's a false benchmark. We have never been more consistently poor on the eye, we are more solid but we lack so much going forward it makes me wonder if we do any work on attacking play in training at all. Frankly Jose has benefited from following an absolute fiasco of a manager, he has had 2 seasons, mega money and not one of our fans would seriously expect us to compete with City in the league or win the CL next season - that isn't enough progress and Jose is likely to implode there have been sparks galore all season - everything is on egg shells and our performances highlight that better than words can.

We all want Jose to take us to the next level, but all Jose has done is pull us closer to where we used to be, whilst looking like a team falling further behind.

If I were a Spurs, City or Liverpool fan I'd be more excited about next season than a Utd fan - that should tell us everything we need to know about what our future is likely to be under Jose (a lot like the past 2 years of hellish football)!

14.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 15:57:17
If we don't win the fa cup have we had a good season?

15.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 16:10:59
Tell us what you think jred.
I'd say the season was ok. But very good if we win the cup.
Liverpool will say the same i'm sure. Except they disproved in the league and done very well in cl. But win nothing and they will feel disjointed i'm sure.
Spurs threading water.

Chelsea disaster season along with arsenal we know what it's like without cl football. It's terrible.

16.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 16:13:34
Excellent post Mumbles and I'm virtually 100% in agreement with you.
But we mustn't forget that part of the club's ethos is playing attacking, exciting football. It's part of the club's heritage and identity and forsaking that does a disservice to the memory of the Busby Babes. And also the incredible achievement of Sir Matt Busby in winning the European Cup 10 years later. I still think it's the greatest achievement in any sport ever.
Of course we can't field a team of 18 year old Mancunians. But we could have that kind of spirit out on the pitch. Pep and his team's always seem to have the spirit of Cruyff about them. But we've had great players here, great managers here as well. The present manager and players should identify with that a bit more than they are.
I'm actually hopeful for next season, I think Mourinho will address what's needed and we will see more joie de vivre next season.

17.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 16:23:03
Beast I too am a massive fan of jardim. Think he is a brilliant manager and his Monaco side played some very attractive football a few seasons back. He also promotes youth and he won the league against a PSG side who have a bottomless pit of money. He would be a great appointment after Jose. But for me after Jose has finished his contract. It sends a wrong precedent if we are sacking him after finishing second in the league and potentially with a cup win. Imo we will sign some very good defensive players and some much needed midfielders and the squad Jose leaves for the next manager will be much better than the one he inherited. It’s too much of a risk sacking and hiring someone when quite frankly this squad is not as strong as the league table suggests. I know the football is dour but has done enough to earn another year for me. I know we will disagree on this but let’s get behind the manager and the team and see where next season takes us. You never know Jose may surprise a few.

18.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 16:46:39
Mumblea top post that. Just a reply down to shappy below.

What ethos and traditions are we talking about? .

I thought qe live in 2018 and not 1990s or eqrly 2000s.

Sports is about money just as much aa it is abount entertatinment.

If you want entertainment you might aa well watch sunday league or a comedy show and you will be entertained.

Jose didn't come to entertain anyone he came to pick United up for nit peforming dor 3 years.

He inherited a team full of ols players and players that were lucky they have won a premier league title. Whether that was down to genius of fergie or the league being poor.

I wouls aay it was a bit of both but it was more becauase of league being poor.

Fergie didn't always entertain he was just a winner like Mourinho.

Man city has tons of money, chelsea has loads, liveepool spend tons of money and Arsenal will too this year.

Do you just want to wait and get a young manager and then hope for things to work. Because all you can do is hope as the young manager wouldbt have no preivous record of winning titles where as with Mourinho he has won a title 2 yeara ago in emgland.

Back Mourinho give him the players he wants and then judge him.

We all just want to chop. and change each year and it hasn't got us no where for last 5 years.

The worse Mourinho will do is he will leave a set of top playera behind with a much better winning mentality after winning and 2 titles last years and hopefully winning another this week.

19.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 17:24:04
Even if we win the cup jred I don't think we've had a "good" season. I judge each year by the league table and second never sits right with me. That being said, even though we didn't have a "good" season, we have improved from last year in every area. As long as we are on the ascendancy, then I'm content.

Beast, Jardim who's had 5 manager jobs in 5 years before Monaco and won a Greek title and a French title? I enjoyed watching Monaco last year, they had a great team and played some exciting football but I certainly wouldn't be giving the keys to the kingdom to a manager with that sort of record.

Spurs, Liverpool and City fans will all be a lot more excited than united fans next year? Spurs are at the end of their cycle. That team has peaked and realistically have one more season before their better players leave. Liverpool fans need no help getting excited about anything and City fans are so excited, they can't even leave their houses to go to games. Speak for yourself mate but I'm really looking forward to next year.

I was happy when we showed heart and determination to come back against Palace. I was happy when we easily brushed Liverpool aside. The Fergie esc comeback against City. The big game performance against Spurs in the Semi final. And that was all in the space of a month! No one has ever accused you of having rose tinted specs mate but if you can't look at the positives after that month and see the potential instead of the negative and look forward to seeing what next year has in store then what's the point.

I just don't see how you can sack a manager with a CV like Jose after 2 seasons of bringing in trophies and improving us consistently? You have a filet steak sitting in front of you but youd rather a hamburger with a sparkler in it.

I watch every game with my dad. He's a pessimistic united fan. I'm an optimistic one. Being pessimistic is too easy. They want to have their cake and eat it too. If the crap hits the fan, the pessimistic fan gets to say "I was right, you're wrong! " If the pessimistic fan gets it wrong "I don't care, we won, that's all that matters"

I certainly think we can challenge next year. We could improve our tally of 81 points to 90+ and we're in the race!

20.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 17:25:54
Second in the league and hopefully an fa cup will be about par for the course imo. Second best squad in the league so, so so.
Lvg got joint 5th ( joint points with 4th ) won the fa cup and everyone wanted rid
Chelsea have shown they were not the team many liked to make out Costa was badley missed and morata is not a good enough replacement.

Spurs treading water . Wow tells me a lot .
3rd in the league again from a team with a wage bill 50% than the team pushing for top 4 and a net spend of 50 mil over 3 year .

Dear me awful post, clubs like United have a history and tradition never mind " do we live in the 2000s "
Madrid Munich barce all have a club tradition that they are proud of it's what sets them apart .
They also have glory hunting fans .

Do people think United will win the league next year then?

21.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 17:32:59
Jose has never been a long term manager, he doesn't build for the future he builds for the now.
3 year at a club, win move on .

It's served him well he has been a very succesful manager, but the signs are there. Football has moved on, the game different he just doesn't look the right fit at United.

For as good a manager as he is he was sacked in his last 2 jobs .
I think he will be at the club another 12 month and then one way or the other leave .

For all the people who keep saying he will get it right, why couldn't he turn Chelsea round, should they of stuck by him?

22.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 17:37:21
Happy you are optimistic, but I prefer to look at the evidence before my eyes. People take different things from a game of football, but 95% of games this season I have felt dejected and fed up after the show we put on. Expecting things to improve points wise is fair enough, but the other 3 clubs I mention play better football than us and look like improving. Not sure how you can say Spurs are at the end of a cycle, they look ready to kick on to me.

I'd love to hear the excuses given if we had to play at Wembley this year!

How many titles had Zidane won before beoming Madrid manager, how many people have even heard of half the Barcelona managers in recent years? A lot of people say give Jose time and money, but 2 years is a fair amount of time in modern football, especially if the product on the pitch shows little to no signs of improvement.

If I were a shareholder in Utd I'd be singing a different tune, but most of us won't be - we watch to enjoy the games. My points are still correct about the waste of money, failure from most big signings, treading water of the young stars we expected to be world beaters a couple of years ago.

We know what we are going to get, play bad football, but grind out results. Probably beat more teams than we draw with and sneak a few wins against big teams, but overall we rely on luck more than our ability - this is not the Man Utd most of us fell in love with, nor does it look like being under Jose, so why persist with hundreds of millions more being spent to paper over the obvious cracks?

23.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 18:03:24
Why does every other team improve but we simply paper over the cracks? My point about Spurs being at the end of their cycle is a very valid one. Poch won't be there for long, a year at best. When the buzz of the new stadium wears away and they go another season without silverware, then their better players especially the foreign lads will be on their way.

Liverpools forward line will do incredibly well if they call replicate this season in terms of numbers. Their style of play suits open games but I can guarantee you that most teams going to an field will shut up shop and that's were they struggle.

Pep asks a lot from his players. When they're winning it's all sweet as a nut. If it derails at all, problems could occur but they are without a doubt the ones to catch.

I personally think we have the bigger scope to improve. I think our forwards as an attacking until have been poor. It's partly down to the manager but also majorly down the the individuals. If we can get an extra 20% out of them and become more ruthless, with reinforcements in the transfer market I don't she why we can bridge the gap to at least challenge.

24.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 18:06:50
Jred it was a great post by singh. We don't have a great squad at all. so do you judge results on money spent on wages or on goals scored/ conceded?
Liverpool spent more than us this season and if they win nothing they have disimproved in the league then its a poor season imo.

Your right in your post above jose is a great manager yet you think nothing will improve next season very strange.

25.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 18:20:36
Beast with all due respect I can’t remember the last time you were positive or said a good thing about united. Even under Fergie in his last few seasons there was always something you had a moan about. In this instance I agree the football is very difficult on the eye but there is plenty to be positive about. There are some potentially very exciting players coming in, back in the champions league for next year and the only way is up in terms of playing style. And before you say we are Man Utd champions league should be the miniumim, we haven’t exactly been stellar united the last 5 years. Yes there are things we all agree need improving but you have had a problem with the last 3 managers. What if jardim came in and started struggling? This is a huge job which the last few managers have underestimated. The united manager has to deal with the vitriol and negativity the press throws at the club, unrest from some fans but also the expectation to play the united way and to manage yourself in a certain way. Jardim doesn’t have that personality. yet I believe. If you sack Jose now there is a handful of coaches available and two of them are at city and Liverpool. Just try and enjoy the ride and lighten up abit because things are far better than you are seeing them. If we are in this position next year I will be joining you in calling for a change. But things take time and because certain fans dislike Jose as a character, they do not want to afford him the time that they would to their beloved managers they wish was managing Utd.

26.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 19:10:45
Mumbles, that is a fantastic post, and although I don't agree with parts of it I can appreciate the quality of it. Unfortunately I'm far too busy today to write a reply that post deserves. I haven't even been able to read all the replies. Be sure I will write a rebuttal in the coming days when I can force some time into my schedule.

27.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 19:20:04
It’s a good post, very well thought out and some very relevant points made. However, I do want to take issue with one point. The ethos and tradition doesn’t have to be home grown players, but it is about attacking entertaining football and we have seem too little of that for the last 5 years.

I don’t want Jose to fail. If we win the title and play great football I will happily eat humble pie. I just don’t see it happening.

28.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 20:43:19
You're right, Tony. I don't think anybody WANTS Jose to fail, because if he fails, its meant the club has failed, and no one wants that.

I do expect an honest critique of how he's doing, and while the football by and large, has been dull and uninspired, I can see the obvious improvement from life under LVG - a low bar admittedly.

As such, he was given a contract to do a job, and I think he should be allowed to see it out as long as that improvement continues.

Don't like him and will probably never warm to him or his style of football. However, I'll support him because he's doing a job for the club I love. Not in the way I would like, but he's still doing it.

I'm certainly not looking for it to go wrong, just so I can say I told you so, as some have rather pettily suggested. Following that logic, I want the club to fail as well, which is just stupid.

29.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 21:16:42
We do have a good squad it's just got 80 plus points and only a exceptional city team finished above us .
That's fact not opinion but says a lot about your opinion.

It's a shocking post by singh unless your a bit of a glory hunter United and our tradition means a lot to the average fan.

30.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 22:12:29
I agree with jred, Singh’s post is depressing and if that is how fans feel today then I want no part of it.

31.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 22:39:44
Couldn’t agree more. Been saying for some time Jose must stay. Great post.

32.) 15 May 2018
15 May 2018 23:14:47
It's not what the vast majority of United fans are about .
We are not any other club.