15 Aug 2019 12:19:31
Still on a high from Sunday. What an exciting and youthful team we have. I know it’s early days, but it is clear that there is some very good talent in the squad. We are a few players short, in midfield and on the right wing, but it’s nice to see a stronger defence than in previous years.

I just wanted to touch on something quickly. I see that there seems to be an issue with criticising shaw at the minute. There seems to be a a lack of distinction between constructive criticism or being called a toxic.

My view is that shaw is not good enough. The fact he was player of the year last year is irrelevant imo. The standard was shockingly low as we know. I think he needs to improve both in his positioning defensively as well as a his end product. I don’t see how it is an issue to state that he is a weak link or to point out his deficiencies as long as it’s done in a constructive manner. Of course if I was calling him derogatory names or calling him fat then I understand.

My point is some fans take the moral high ground with shaw but have no issues getting personal with Sanchez, matic or smalling/ Jones. We cannot pick and choose who gets preferential treatment and who does not.

In life there is always room for improvement. Even when you are on top, you cannot stay still. It’s so important to keep on moving to the next level. I was chuffed with the result on Sunday but I don’t think the performance as a whole was an amazing 4-0 performance. I feel like if you portray a negative view, you are automatically called toxic. I’m sorry if this is nonsense it’s just something that has come to my attention.

I’m very excited for Monday but also believe it is a much more difficult test than Chelsea. It will be interesting to see how we do when teams sit back and soak up pressure.

1.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 12:54:51
Shaw is our new Pogba for this year.

2.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 13:08:20
Singh,

What does that even mean? You read that post and decided to post that? Park explained why that isn't the case, it is a totally different situation to Pogba. Pogba has all the talent in the world but seems incapable of using it consistently. I am not sure Shaw has all that much talent.

We are ok at the moment and the back 4 looks good but to improve it the first port of call would be an upgrade on Shaw, people can say that without being shot down.

It is still not as pressing an issue as the midfield but if we are to start to challenge domestically and in Europe myself and many others it seems don't think Shaw is good enough to be our long term left back.

I hope he proves us wrong.

3.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 13:11:14
The moment martial or linders have a bad game it will be back round to them .
So much to talk about in regards to sunday, but it always seems to be the negatives with some .
1 game into the season and people want to sell a player
Shaw imo and many others was our best player last season but hey he wasnt amazing against chelsea .

4.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 13:27:11
GDS - It is nothing personal against Park or any other poster but i think Shaw will be our new Pogba this year as a player under scrutinty and under discussion for most of the year.

It is just the way it is in terms of of how fans how actually are.

Shaw may turn out to be very good or may flop but let's get behind the chap for now and see how he develops.

Like you said there are other pressing areas that needs attention before focusing on LB.

5.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 13:39:09
Its ok to critisise a player.
For once i was on shaws side this time but its ok to be critical i don't see the issue. If someone has a bad game its ok to say so.
It was the same jred when ibra was here there were some who just wanted him out from the moment he arrived yet he was our best player that season in many people's opinions.
Get over what others write lads its just 1 of a 7bn populations opinion.
If it irks you either ignore it or make a counter debate.
Everybody on here has double standards. Jred you critisised ibra at every turn. You wanted our last 2 managers fired so your living in a glass house throwing stones. Just accept that not everyone thinks the same as you and the world should be thankful for that.
If we all thought the same it would be a little dull.

6.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:00:24
My comments about Shaw are the same as the ones I made about him last season.

He wanders off when he should be marking his man. He ball watches and gets dragged out of position. At times you can see cutting in front of the CB leaving space behind him.

This isn't based on one game, it's based on his career so far.

He can be brilliant when he attacks. I'm nit disputing that. He is into his 7th season as a professional footballer. Basic defending should need working on.

7.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:18:29
Mh you are welcome to that opinion😂.

8.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:26:36
Ken
Ibra is a good player but was a short term solution and was never going to be anything other than that and that's how it turned out .
Last season was yet another 3rd season jose melt down it was obvious it was coming, no surprise all the signs where there .
As I always say only time will tell, let's see how things turn out with shaw many wanted him sold last summer and he ended up being our best player .
I actually like a back 5 of wan maguire lin shaw and DDG, so let's see how it turns out .
Truth is if you look at chances created chelsea got just as much joy down our right as they did our left . Wan was caught out of position several times yet from all accounts he was amazing.
Truth is you defend as a team, and as a team we where wide open all over the pitch for various reasons . Both full backs where isolated and doubled up on as where our 2 cm at times .
I also think we almost gave chelsea the wings, both full backs tucked in a lot possible confident that

chelsea are more dangerous cutting through the middle of you as opposed to scoring of crosses.
Like to play clever passes in and around the box as opposed to working it out wide and lobbing in balls for abraham, especially against Maguire.
Buy inviting chelsea to push on in to the spaces left it in turn left space for our attackers .

Imo a lot to talk about on sunday, once over it would of been a topic of discussion now it's just sell x buy y, on a game to game basis.

I'm not criticising that, people use the site for different reasons I'm just pointing it out .
Only time will tell but once shaw finds his form the same people will just move on to next, with very little explanation to back up there opinion .
Maybe I'm wrong, only time will tell.

9.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:31:52
Well said Ken.

10.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:45:24
Jred you know I’ve been a poster on this site for a very long time so you know what sort of poster I am. I always try to give a balanced view and always draw on both the positives and negatives. If anything, I’ve perhaps been too positive on my outlook. I’m any decent assessment, you have to take into account both sides of the story otherwise you are in danger of being blinkered by rose tinted glasses.

In previous posts, I have highlighted how well we did, but it’s foolish to get too excited over one game. We’ve been here before where we’ve gone on a run and we think we are back. It’s not that simple. I hope I’m proven wrong by shaw. Up until last season I was very high on him. I thought he’d be top draw and unfortunately I don’t believe that anymore for the reasons I have stated. I’m more than happy to be proven wrong and I want nothing more than to hold my hands up and admit I’m wrong. But I just cannot see it.

Unconsciously we all have our favourites or a certain view on a player which we cannot shake. And that’s what makes this site so brilliant. A cauldron of differing views makes this place all the more exciting. Yes some posters are more negative than others, but we should all be allowed to express our voice and opinion. Just because shaw was player of the year, does not mean he is exempt from criticism, nor does it mean he’s at the required level.

11.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 14:58:43
Park
It means he had a good season last year even if as you say above, you think that's irrelevant, especially if like you say you want to give a balanced view and draw on both the positives and negatives.
I agree that people have a certain view of players that they just can't shake .

I try to look at it as a team sport as opposed to an individual I also think we are one game in to a season.
But a lot of of defensive issue where imo down to the team as opposed to individuals .
I think chelsea got behind both full backs for example but people seem to ignore that.

12.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 15:11:43
I think Shaw isn't as bad as some think.

Recovering from an injury like he had, no matter how long ago it was, will have consequences for his thought processes and also his confidence.

He is by no means the best in that position, but players have off days, all players.

After one game this season, playing a different style is simply not enough to judge him on, especially as we have 2 new members of the defence.

Also, on Sunday, in the first half, Rashford was not helping in his defensive duties.

I will reserve judgement after a few more games and all players have become accustomed to the new style of play.

13.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 15:23:00
Jred i understand your point of view and that you tend to look at things collectively instead of individually which is often a good and orudent way of analyising some situations. To counter that it may often be a mistake by an individual that makes the collective look bad.

My point is you like all other posters have your favourites and others that irk you more than most. So no different.
I agree its too early to judge anybody 1 game in. I have refrained from doing so. I saw no real negatives on sunday other than we started slowly.
All players start with a clean sheet.
In my book martial Pogba and shaw are 3 players in particular that can ill afford to drop their effort levels from last sunday and fall into the habits of last season where they just didn't try on several occasions.
Shaw was voted poy due to his massively increased contribution he needs to maintain that. He is prone to periods of indifference and poor fitness.
If all 3 try as they did on Sunday every week their talent should dictate that they do well.

14.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 16:06:35
Ken
No one has said any different.
I think shaw is getting it this week it will be someone else next week .

First game of the season 4.0 win and main topic of convo is sell shaw .
Not really sure what your point is .
Lot to talk about imo but them days on the site seem to of gone .
I think people will move on to some one else next week prob linders pogba or martial . Maybe they wont.

15.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 16:21:28
Jred i don't think the main topic of conversation on the site has been sell shaw since sunday. Its been on a few threads or the odd isolated post. In fact look back and tell me how many posters have said sell shaw since sunday.
Its a topic that irks you. So you are super sensitive about it.
Seriously check and see how many posters said sell shaw since sunday and then you will realise its less than 6 people. Hardly a landslide or main topic of conversation. That is shappy like hyberbole😂😂😂.

16.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 16:29:30
Ken
No it doesn't irk me
read down the page shaw has been one of the main convos, infact the OP by park addresses the fact that shaw has been a previous issue on the site since the chelsea match.

Dont really know what your point is other than looking for an argument .
I think people will move on to someone else next week .
But like tris on the discussion page this convo is over imo.

17.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 16:29:47
Was he really our best player last season? I'd have had Lindelof infront of him personally.

He needs to find consistency and iron out the little errors in his game. And keep an eye on his weight and fitness.

I don't think he will reach the heights originally predicted for him but he can become a mainstay of the defence for the next few years.

18.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 17:14:45
Mort,

I would have had Lindelof ahead of Shaw aswell.

I've also said I wouldn't sell him. My judgement this been based on the time ar the club, not one game.

19.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 20:47:40
He gives his all, he has never whined, he hasn’t sought to leave, despite being called out continually by Jose. He was one of the brightest English prospects and then he broke his leg really badly. I think we give the kid a break, he didn’t let us down last year and in some games really looked the part.

What I don’t understand is ‘we won 4-0 but’, I really don’t see why we can’t just enjoy the big win instead of having to find a player to criticise. I can’t remember who the poster was but a couple of years ago someone reviewed every game and irrespective of the result listed who he thought the worst player was. I called him out as I didn’t understand why we needed to find fault after a big win, it’s completely unnecessary. Did Shaw give away a penalty, did he get sent off, did he cause a goal to be scored? No, no, no. Baffling.

20.) 15 Aug 2019
15 Aug 2019 21:51:22
Think its been done to death.

There's a difference between constructive criticism and trashing.

He's a player that needs a run of games to get into form. He's had a bad injury but he's recovered. He doesn't help himself with fitness.

I feel its a make or break season for him. He knuckles down and improves what's been raised as constructive criticism he can be an asset. Also saves us money which can go on the big midfield rebuild.

21.) 16 Aug 2019
16 Aug 2019 00:28:21
Not based on one game, but personally I've said for a long time that his positioning is suspect. And if he hasn't learned that after 7 yrs, then i doubt he'll improve now. He's no longer a kid.
Lvg, Mourinho and hodgson all didn't rate him and were critical of him. And he is not in the top 3 England left backs.
He is ok for now as midfield is the priority, but we need to look at competition for him next season.

22.) 16 Aug 2019
16 Aug 2019 05:50:16
Shaw will progress as the season continues.
Last year was the first time he got consistent run of games in A United shirt.

23.) 16 Aug 2019
16 Aug 2019 07:18:52
TRD,

Let’s hope so, I think everybody wants that from him. Not sure anybody is really saying we should sell Shaw, I’d be happy to have him in the first team squad fighting it out with someone who is better or has the potential to be better than him. At the moment he is our only left footed left back and he has had issues throughout his career with his weight and also with a clear lack of positioning defensively.

As I said earlier it’s not a priority as we have other positions with glaring holes but I think there is a place for a top left back that can fight it out for a place with Shaw and either replace him as first choice or push Shaw to be better. This isn’t based on one game and I’m always positive about things, it’s just quite an obvious point to make.

24.) 16 Aug 2019
16 Aug 2019 16:34:27
Tierney would have been ideal, and i still think Danny Rose is more aware and athletic than Shaw.