05 Jul 2020 15:17:12
Let's stay calm, we are still in 5th, out of the CL positions and still have it all to do. It was also Bournemouth, who are a mess at the moment. I fancy Villa and Southampton will be more of an opposition but must beat them. Still Ole has got Bruno and Pogba playing together and that is something I was looking for before the restart.

Many seem to take aim at Maguire and our strength in centre of defence. I stand by Maguire, he is no Rio or Stam yet is very solid. Our problem is finding a partner, who complements him, who is patrolling, sweeping up danger. I have no idea what Bailey was doing to give the penalty away, even though it looked dodgy to give it, he seems to be either brilliant or awful and that is not a recipe for centre of defence. Centre Half is one of the easiest positions to play if you read the game, reading the game is so important there plus it helps these days to have pace. Lindelof is probably the better of the two, Tuanzebe hasn't convinced me and I watched a couple of Villa games where Mings guided him through positionally the whole game. I suggested AWB alongside Maguire but he looks an exceptional defensive right back, probably the best, so we don't want to lose that. Until the end of the season I would stick with Lindelof, if fit, but I have heard great things about the lad Mengi, apparently very quick. Games like yesterday should be an opportunity to give him 15 mins, three goal lead let's see what he can do. Same with Mejbri, looks brilliant, why are we not putting a couple of these exceptional kids on the bench and if the score allows give them minutes? There has been criticism of the planning for our kids futures and yesterday should have been an opportunity. If we are going to spend in summer, we need to know if Mengi has the mental capacity to step up. In summer we need a partner for Maguire, a Buchan, a Rio or from internally to play alongside Maguire because we are not going to jettison him.

Lastly, Greenwood. Often we see youth not step up after a bright start, many examples, Januzaj, Macheda, however I think Greenwood may be different. I said on here that the first game back he looked to have taken a step up in his touch and physically. We may well be watching the start of a great, the way he took those goals yesterday, especially his second, reminded me of a night years ago, where the Brazilian Ronaldo hit the ball in the same way. That is a heady comparison yet not many can do that with both feet. He must stay mentally tuned but at 18 he has the talent. I remember writing on here about him circa 4 years ago because he was so two footed he was taking a penalty with either foot. He has far more than that, there is also a balance about him. I can bet the owners at Real and Barcelona saw that yesterday and noted he is stepping up a level from the previous promise of youth. Ronaldo showed the way, let's hope Greenwood notes his development in the same way.


1.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 15:51:54
Red Man,

I agree on Greenwood, have also been following him through the youth team and felt it was unfair at times how far ahead of the other players he was in ability. Some players step up later and it’s not so obvious but he’s the best forward we have had in the academy that I can remember in my lifetime. I was always hopeful he could step up without knowing anything about his character really, could easily be another Morrison or other players who haven’t made it but he does seem to have his head screwed on and has taken the step up in the same way he stepped up to the under 18s well before he should have done.

As you say, he seems to have taken a step up physically in the last few months as well which takes him to another level. I think we need to be careful with him as not to risk burnout but I think I said on here a year or so ago that if Greenwood stays fit and keeps improving and working hard the ceiling for him is scarily high. It’s unfair to compare to others and put too much pressure on but I genuinely think he’s got the ability to be in the top 5 players in the world, it’s very exciting and I’m delighted he is at our club. I also feel the same about Foden at City.

Mengi is training with the first team so I’m sure he will get a chance, maybe next pre season, see how he does, another quality youth player. Mejbri is a very talented lad but he’s a kid, you can’t put them on the bench at the moment when the results are so important, easy to say he should have been there to bring on once we’ve got 5 but what if we don’t get 5, you’ve wasted a sub spot on a child to give him minutes.

When you say ‘we have it all to do’ we just have to keep winning, we can probably afford to lose one as it’s unlikely all the other teams win every game as well but we look the better of the teams fighting for 3rd at the moment in my opinion. It is strange how I keep hearing everyone we play against is useless and in poor form then they all seem to go on and win their next game, Tottenham, Brighton and Sheff United all did it, so perhaps it’s us playing well instead of them just being terrible.


2.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 16:26:22
Totally Agree RedMan on Maguire.
There must be some reason why Pep, Mourinho, Poch etc, wanted him.

After watching the likes of Smalling, Jones, Rojo in the last few years, Maguire is easily a step above them.
He won matches against Norwich and Chelsea. Leadership is his another important trait.
I'd like Giminez of Athletico alongside him.

We are also seeing a more disciplined Pogba. Bruno is sharing the creative burden.
We've hit form at the right time.


3.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 16:59:24
Great post Red Man, agree with all that. I think if we keep winning we’ll finish in the top 4, that’s all we can do.


4.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 17:06:23
Top post Red Man. It's easy to get carried away, this is the best we have played in 7 years so it's understandable that people get a little caught up in the excitement.

I think both Maguire and Shaw have become the new players to knock. Shaw has been an almost ever present since the restart and I wouldn't be surprised if he has played the most minutes since the restart. He has also looked one of our fittest players so I don't get the overweight comments. He doesn't have an athletic build, but then neither did Denis Irwin and we were all waxing lyrical about him earlier this week. I think since Williams stepped up and challenged him for his spot Shaw has really stepped up, he is consistent, good defensively and decent offensively. I haven't seen a single performance from him since January which I would say was less than a 7 out of 10.

Maguire is a player I wasn't convinced about before we signed him. But he has been far better than I expected. He isn't in the world class bracket, but then personally I feel currently world wide there might only be a handful of genuinely world class CB's. I feel like the role of a centre back has changed so much over the past 15 years that the training hasn't filtered down to grass roots level, there is still a tendency to stick a kid who has played in midfield most of his youth career but who has had a growth spurt and is now 6ft plus at CB and call them a "ball playing" CB. Everyone should be being taught how to read the game and how to defend properly.

Maguire is very good at several aspects of defending. Yet like many very good CB's what he really needs is a partner who compliments him. Someone who covers his weaknesses.

I agree with TrueRedDevil, if I could sign any CB it would be Jose Gimenez from Atletico Madrid. Someone who while comfortable enough on the ball looks to defend first. He would cover Maguire's lapses and give us a much more solid base. However, unless we can offload 2 or 3 Cb's this summer I don't see Gimenez or any other CB signing.

Yet I don't see that as a serious problem. While VvD and Laporte are excellent at Liverpool and City their centre back partners are often less than spectacular. Injury prone or just poor defenders. Who else is head and shoulders a better defender than Maguire in the EPL? Alderwiereld maybe if he can stay fit.

Luiz starts for Arsenal, Zouma for Chelsea, Sanchez at Spurs.

Like I said, there aren't many great defenders about now. So considering we have a decent defensive record I don't see CB as vital this summer. But is definitely a position I'd look to next summer.

Greenwood has been nothing short of magnificent this season, particularly since the restart. He looks to have filled out a little and isn't as easily pushed off the ball and can stand his own against men now. I think if he can keep focused, stay humble and work to maximise his talent then we have a potential future Balon d'Or winner on our hands. He looks every bit as exciting as Mbappe did when he first started playing at Monaco. Slightly different skill sets, but just amazing talents. At this rate with 5 games remaining you wouldn't bet against him scoring 5 more goals and hitting the 20 goals in a season barrier in his first season, which he was 17 at the start of.

The thought of a front three of Sancho, Martial and Rashford with Greenwood rotating in for any of those three is mouthwatering.

I think we have a lot to enjoy about this side currently, and huge potential for the future. Yes, Maguire got played for the nutmeg (although DDG should never have been beaten at his near post from that angle), while Bailly had a brain fart moment with the handball (which I'm still not 100% certain was either a handball or in the area) . Yet these things can be worked on and certainly don't matter when we are blasting 5 in at the other end. We could have won that game 8-2 without flattering us. Just enjoy some great football, we have waited 7 years or more for some genuinely world class offensive football, it may or may not last. Enjoy every second of it.


5.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 17:26:47
We were always going to be a bit more open at the back when Pogba and Bruno play. There's no McTominay and Fred sitting in front of the back four. Mistakes happen, in the grand scheme of things the defence has been good. Of course it can be improved but I wouldn't be losing sleep over them at the minute.

As everyone has said, we're playing good football. The attacking impetus was always going to open the defence up and against the weaker teams we can do that.

Sancho seems to be in everyone's United team for next year. I'd worry that his agent has lowered his fees and approached two clubs about Sancho joining. Neither of which are Man Utd.

I just hope we don't put all our eggs in the Sancho basket or worse, we end up making him one of the highest paid players at the club.


6.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 17:27:01
Bang on redman good post.


7.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 17:39:52
Mumbles, I have a slight concern over Sancho myself. Without a doubt the most talented player who may be available this summer. Yet, like you say his agent has approached two other clubs lowering their fee to try and entice them to make a move. That suggests that we are quite far down Sancho's list of choices.

We could be in another Pogba situation where we sign a hugely talented player because we are the only ones daft enough to pay the agents price. Then in a couple of years time that player could be pushing to leave the club.

I think the club needs to seriously know how much Sancho wants to join United before we spend the whole summer chasing him.


8.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 17:42:01
GDS2

Re Mengi and Mejbri, if we are wasting a sub then the kids are not good enough, plus why waste a space on Perreira? If we only had three subs I would be more in line with your point, but we have five, a great opportunity. We were playing Bournemouth, who got pasted by Newcastle and we were at home, I think in those circumstances Ole missed a trick.

Shappy

If Greenwood plays like he is then Martial or more likely Rashford will be rotating. I don’t think Rashford is pulling up trees at the moment, I see he has signed up with JayZ, who apparently is a rapper? Needs to focus on his football before he gets left behind, world peace will wait.
Maguire, got megged but it can happen, I was shocked at DDG positioning, should never be beaten at the near post so easily. I still think we need to look at Henderson.

As to Shaw, look at his body shape, the angle of his upper body, I think it holds him back slightly but he has responded to the challenge of Williams and deserves his place. If we want a partner for Maguire, it needs careful thought, Bruce and Pally, Stam and Johnsen, of course Rio and Vidic, it’s what SAF built on. We have mix and match right now.


9.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 18:07:11
Red Man, I half agree on giving a youngster 10 minutes or so now that we have 5 subs. However, I suppose Ole has to have half an eye on the fact we have 5 more league plus at least 1 maybe 2 games in the FA cup then as many as 4 games in the Europa League. As many as 11 games in around a 6 week period. We will need our squad players, so I can understand why they might be getting minutes ahead of the kids.

I don't think we need to worry about Rashford, from all the stories from those who know him he is a hard working dedicated player who wants to be the best he can be. I just think he had 3 months out injured with a serious back injury and its taking a few games for him to refind his form.

Henderson has made a couple of mistakes over the last few games himself. Clearly he is the future, but I don't think another year of DDG while Henderson spends another year on loan would be the worst decision. On balance I still think DDG saves us more goals than he gives away. Every player makes mistakes, I don't think DDG is a liability yet.


10.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 18:26:46
How can anyone blame Bailly for the penalty? Was a poor ball back from Matic of which clearly hit him on the top of the shoulder.

We need2 CBs not anyone to play alongside Maguire he's just not cut out for the highest level. Imo.


11.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 18:45:36
We don't always agree Shappy but we're on the same page. We have a lot of talented young players in the squad. If we are daft and have to make Sancho one of our top earners to get him to join, what's going to happen when Greenwood or the other kids want a new deal?

We need to be a bit more clever. I wrote awhile ago that Chelsea are like the canary down the mine. They normally do solid business. If they're stepping away from a player like that, then there are obviously big issues.

We need to address the wage structure at the club. Some very average players on huge deals. Like you said, Sancho could be huge problem down the line and at those prices involved, maybe not worth the risk unless he's 100% on board which he's obviously not at the minute.


12.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 19:30:13
Mumbles, I don't blame people for their mistakes the first time. But when you make the same mistakes over and over then you lack the intelligence and common sense to learn from them.

We have a potential issue with Pogba, he is the second highest earner at our club, but he doesn't want to be here. In fact he never really wanted to be here, and he would be happy to go back to Juventus if his "dream" move to Spain doesn't materialise.

I think the lesson from that is not to invest heavily in a player who isn't committed.

Of course I'd love to see a fully committed flying Sancho lining up for us next season. You'd be a fool not to want one of the best young players at our club, especially as he is English.

Yet if he doesn't really want to come and sees us as a stepping stone to one of the big clubs in Spain or until he can move to London then he hasn't got the right attitude and mentality for us to sign.

He would just be another expensive headache. Now none of us can truly know if he really wants to sign for the club, but the club needs to find that out before committing close to 200m of club finances to a player who might not truly want to be here.

I'd rather have a 100% committed player like Buendía or whoever else, than a 60% committed Sancho. Especially at the prices being quoted.


13.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:03:58
Maguire is our captain and isn’t going anywhere so people are going to have to get used to that and stop with the need 2 centre backs nonsense.

{Ed047's Note - I agree, it would be embarrassing to get rid of him and admit you got mugged off for yet another player.


14.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:15:19
If madrid or Barcelona come calling very few players turn them down .

Shaps mumbles
Which players do you think we should sign that wouldn't want to play for Madrid if given the chance.


15.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:31:36
Jred, it's not about signing players who will turn Barcelona/ Real Madrid down. As you point out there are very few who would.

It's about signing players who actually want to be at Manchester United and don't see moving to United as a stepping stone to Spain.

There is no point signing a player for close to 200m if that player expects to move club's again in 2-3 years time.

I'd be more than happy to see Sancho sign for us. He is an exceptional player who would instantly improve us dramatically.

Yet I'd still have that concern that we spent so much on him due to his marketability, while he joined as he thought he'd be off to Spain within 3 years.

When signing a player for such sums and making them a key part of the team both on and off the pitch you need to be assured that they actually want to be at the club for at least the medium to long term.

We have fallen into the trap of singing players before who didn't want to be in Manchester and saw us as a stepping stone, Di Maria and Pogba. Those signings don't tend to end well for us.

As Mumbles has said, Chelsea tend to have a good handle on transfers and what should and shouldn't be spent on a player. If they bulked and walked away from a deal then you know it's a bad deal.


16.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:36:23
ED047, I think that was the biggest robbery in football. We definitely got mugg3d in payin 80 mill for Maguire.

I don't know what's worse: Torres to Chelsea for 50 mill, Carroll to Liverpool for 35 mil or 80 mill for Maguire.

{Ed047's Note - well unless he gets his act together next season you could add Pepe to that list but Maguire is certainly up near the top


17.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:50:21
Ed,

👍🏻.


18.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 20:57:21
Your over complicating it as always.
Ed as said hd would like to play for Chelsea.
He won't be the only player who would like to play for a other team .
Not all players play for the club of there dreams.
Not all players have to stop at the same club for 10 years either .
Its a job, if he comes and is professional during his time at the club what's the issue.

Maybe we should never of signed ronaldo .
If he comes and has a dip in form people will be screaming to sell him anyway.


19.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 21:11:33
I agree with a lot of that jred.
Players don't feel like fans. Its a job. Like most people in life if an attractive job offer comes their way they will consider it.
Very few ever get to play for the club of their drama and even when they do they usually eventually leave for 1 reason or another.


20.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 21:28:19
Jred, all we're saying is at the price the transfer could cost us, it is raising a few red flags.

I'm not daft enough to think every player has Man Utd pillows growing up. But it's not too hard to see that right now Sancho has told his agent to get onto Chelsea and Madrid. If he ends up at United because the other two teams aren't stupid enough to pay over the odds, we could end up with an incredibly expensive player that doesn't want to be here.

I'd really like the player to join but there are some issues.


21.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 21:46:02
The notion of considering putting pogba in the same category as di maria when it comes to wanting to play for the club is a joke.


22.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 21:54:10
Mumbles
Why would we be stupid, what's with all the dramatics,?
Do chelsea need to spend 100 mil with the players they have on a rw?
Can they afford to or have they got other targets .
Look at the bigger picture .

If his agent has any thing about him it won't just be chelsea and madrid .
He should be looking to find the best deal for his client.

The club will know what they can and can't afford.


23.) 05 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 22:29:52
I don’t get the shaw bashing atm he’s had a decent season imo especially since Brandon broke through. Them two together should push each other for years. Not a problem area imo. What annoyed me though was Charlie Nicholas saying our fullbacks are vulnerable. Has he seen awb play? I agree to an extent on the left but not a chance he’s right on saying that with awb. I just hope he can hone his end product. He was once a winger tbf so it shouldn’t be difficult.


24.) 06 Jul 2020
05 Jul 2020 23:04:06
You have confidence in Ed Woodward Jred?

The same Woodward that the let Fellaini's release clause expire to sign him a week later for an extra 8 million?

The same Woodward that oversaw the likes of Rafael, Evans, Hernandez, Depay, Zaha and many many more leave for absolute peanuts.

The same Woodward that assembled the most expensively paid squad in world football by giving average players huge contracts.

Giving Jones a new deal to protect his value and now we have to pay him £120 grand a week for the pleasure of protecting said value.

The Sanchez deal that alienated our better senior players by putting him on a pay bracket above everyone else.

Ed Woodward that said "We can do things in the transfer market other teams only dream of" and then proceeds to Spend £50 million on Fred against the managers wishes.

Wouldn't sanction Maguire when Jose recommended him only to break the world record the following year, negotionating all summer to eventually pay exactly what Leicester wanted.

Lowballed Sporting with an insulting bid for Bruno only to pay exactly what they wanted in January. Imagine actually getting him in in the summer.

This is why I'm worried about the finances involved in the deal. Because Mr Woodward has a few very bad deals behind him.


25.) 06 Jul 2020
06 Jul 2020 04:21:14
Mumbles
Are united broke?
The business side of things always seen strong at united.
Money wise these people are in a far better position than you to judge .

You are just as always looking for a negative.


26.) 06 Jul 2020
06 Jul 2020 10:10:36
Good thread boys some interesting posts enjoyed reading everyone's opinions.