Manchester United Banter Archive January 10 2014

 

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10 Jan 2014 23:11:42
Eric Harrison is someone we all respect after his coaching experience brought such rewards at the club.
His opinion is that 'They certainly should have kept the staff that they had, they shouldn't have brought so many in from Everton.'
Followed by the usual platitudes about Moyes needing to speak to SAF he was then asked if he thought Moyes could turn it around, he said: 'At this moment in time, no.'

Damning, very damning.

What is telling is that West Brom held firm to retain the key members of their coaching team and held a line about keeping them despite their new managers requests. We couldn't do that, and folded to Moyes changes.

When you make big decisions like Moyes has you have to be right or it can come back to bite you and it has done that royally.

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11 Jan 2014 00:38:04
Red man I have one question. Just one. Take your criteria for what you think the ideal united manager should have, proven winner, European experience etc etc and go off and work out your desired shortlist. Ok, now heres the question who is a realistic candidate to takeover in January?

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{Ed007's Note - Neil Lennon.}

Nah Bond, we need someone with a bit of soul.

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Mr E

I have said a few times temporary manager until summer. The Eds gave two possible suitable available names Heynkes and Bielsa then there is even SAF himself. Then in summer conduct a proper recruitment exercise to find the candidate that truly fits this role, someone we can get behind to go forward, someone who does have the experience and gravitas

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I think it will be who takes over permanently in the summer that is the priority. Klopp will be the best choice.
As from now till the end of season, then anyone can do the job Moyes is doing, so any temporary manager will do.
I really feel we should not sign anyone in this window until the future of this manager is clear. If they want to keep him till summer then that's fine, let's see what he can do. But give him a load of money to spend, don't think that's a good idea.

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Nice one there Ed007. MrE makes an interesting point.

Seriously though Red Man let's look at some facts :-

1. Moyes tried to keep Rene Muelensteen, but its clear now he had bigger ambitions.

2. Does anyone really miss the tactical genius that was Mike Phelan? I certainly don't.

3. The new goalkeeping coach has improved De Gea.

Its simply a case of people jumping on the bandwagon when results don't go our way.

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@Nomidfield

Moyes is not going anywhere.

@Red Man

And what makes you think that Heynckes or Biesla would want to take on the job for the next couple of months only to be shoved out for a "better" manager later? Does that look dignified? Don't think either of them would take the job.

Secondly, even if we do sack Moyes as you have been championing for and bring in a new manager, how is this side suddenly going to believe in Biesla or Heynckes and miraculously start performing? It will do much more damage than good. And then in the summer the new manager has to again get to know the players, the chief executive etc. and start from scratch and we end up having the sort of transfer window we did last time.

We need to back Moyes, something the club did not do in the summer and that is the reason for the situation we find ourselves in.

Whether you like it or not the club did not get Moyes to be a short term hit but to do a long term job of rebuilding. Sacking him now sends out the wrong message that "We will publicly give you a long term job, but won't back you in the transfer market and get you just one of your wanted signings and in an injury ravaged season, we will sack you in 6 months because its all your fault" to any other manager who we may be interested in.

But of course silly me taking all points into consideration, after all, the short term fix will swing a magic wand and everything shall be rosy again.

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REDFAITH

"how is this side suddenly going to believe in Biesla or Heynckes and miraculously start performing?"

Because they have Gravitas, experience, knowledge to gain instant respect. As SAF said and I quoted recently, managers who have trophies under their belt and will gain instant respect or is SAF now wrong as well? If we had chosen a top manager then they would have the players respect from the beginning. We may well have had problems but would not be having this discussion. Let me say that it may not be in football but in what I do I have had to go into under performing teams and turn things around. I have the experience but I know that if they don't believe you have the experience, gravitas and knowledge the individuals and the team will quickly lose trust and not perform as they should and that is where Moyes is.

"It will do much more damage than good"
Retaining Moyes is a very dangerous strategy, ask your Chelsea, Scouse fans who know football and they will tell you keep Moyes for at least 3 years because we will be in the doldrums. Ask the Everton fans, many wanted rid of dithering Dave and were highly critical of him, many couldn't believe their luck we took him off their hands.

"And then in the summer the new manager has to again get to know the players, the chief executive etc. and start from scratch and we end up having the sort of transfer window we did last time."
Great, a proper manager who knows who he wants in the window and players who will want to play for him. He knows the type of club he wants to build and shares it with us. Unless, of course, we wait until summer and are not in the top 4.

"We need to back Moyes, something the club did not do in the summer and that is the reason for the situation we find ourselves in."
We are in the position because Moyes went on holiday and didn't turn up until July, then dithered over targets. The fact is that Moyes does not have the requisite experience for our club and I believe has not gained the full respect of all the players, that is the problem which when added to his transfer dealings where very likely people won't play for him or doubt his ability, those are the issues. Look at his Danny Welbeck and training comments, how did that look to Danny and the team? I can guess they would shake their heads and wonder if he knows what he us talking about. Experience tells you what to say and how to handle situations and Moyes doesn't have it.

A few weeks ago you said look at where Mourinho was, well I am looking and he isn't in mid table. I remember people saying the same about Sexton, stick with him and it gave us 4 years of misery, to me Moyes has similar attributes and we need a manager of the right stature to take us forward and it certainly isn't Moyes.
We may win today but it doesn't make any difference I have seen enough. I rarely in life so passionate about something but the pain from the Sexton era tells me change is needed and fast.

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Remember red man, as long as we all "believe" then we'll be fine!!

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Red man, I think you and I have been through the mill with united a few times, we have the seen the good the bad and the ugly. And sexton era was one of the worse and Moyes does remind me a lot of sexton era, defensive, scared. Though I have to say, sexton did have more tactical nouse about him but had a very bad set of players.
I think the fact the players look confused says it all, if the instructions are not clear or if they don't believe in moyse's preachings, then that will give us the confused, clueless football we are playing at the moment.
Stand by the manager is a very honourable gesture, but the manager has to show some aptitude for the job. I have asked many times in the past, what has Moyes done so far that can be seen as a positive?

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NOMID

You remind me of the old drunk guy who sits in the corner of the bar and at first his story is interesting but given the fact that he keeps telling the same story, it is very boring and no one wants to listen to. That guys starts talking to himself eventually after realizing no one wants to hear his story anymore :)

The 70 and today are very different, if you can't figure that out have another one mate.

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10 Jan 2014 21:57:42
Actually GCU, United are 8th on the lis of annual salaries behind City, Chelsea, Real, Barca, Milan, Inter and Bayern. I think we can assume that PSG and Monaco will eclipse us in the next few years too.

The club does a very good job in keeping the wages to turnover ratio down. This is good business for the Glazers but not so good if the club wants to persuade a player to join us over another club. Can you think of the last time the club entered a bidding war far a player and won? I can't either.

The reason I don't think the club can compete at the top end of the market is that for the last 5 or 6 years they haven't, and the club has consistently complained about the price of players, wages, agents fees etc and have firmly stated, in the past, that we can't compete at the top end. This summer we miraculously had the money to buy anyone, but end up sweating until the last minute to pay over the odds for one player.

Look at Ed002's summary of our current transfer targets. One point comes up multiple times: United are interested but are unwilling to pay the quoted fee. Is Ed002 fearmongering too, or is it simply the case that United are not willing to pay the going rate for players? If you think we're going to pay the money required for top class talent next summer, you're in for a big surprise.

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Right on the money - a resource that despite our revenues we have less of than our main rivals.

I rather wish we had not won the championship last year - perhaps the club would have taken more seriously the shortcomings of our squad.

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You would have rather us not won the league last season!, the greatest manager in the history of the game to go out a empty handed is foolish thing to say shame on you, ok at this point in time the glazers are not given the club quite as much as some of our rivals but will this change I think it will in time, we are still a huge club and will come good that's for certain

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The Milan Clubs will not have higher wages than us come ned of this year and are pruning their wage structure any which way they can. The have had a fire sale on players for 2 years now and just generally in very bad shape, although both don't need to sell anymore but look at them now.

I am not sure how you would condone that business model. We have a sustainable model that works and when needed can move the needle for the right players.

Again IMO we will be up there with anyone when it comes to buying and paying top wages but don't need to pay over the odds and that is not how businesses like to operate.

Or we can do a Leeds, Bolton, QPR, half of the spanish La liga or pretty much most of italy and buy without any notion and bankrupt ourselves. Going forward very few clubs have what we have and we will be at the very top of the food chain. You guys need to accept a bad run of results and not panic and get on with it.

Ed002 summary also spoke about other clubs not willing to meet players valuations so we were not the only club who found some of the asking numbers out of the question.

Paying silly money to portuguese and spanish clubs for players that are not worth that much does not make us a better club or show ambition in the business world .Look at how anderson and nani have turned out.

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You're flip flopping again.

Yesterday you said that United can compete at the top end of the market and that we were had one of the top 5 highest salaries in the world.

Today, when I pointed out that the latter was inaccurate, it's a different story: we are falling down the wages ladder because of our business concerns, and we won't pay 'silly money' for players.

Well to compete at the top end of the market you need to pay silly money: for transfer fees, agent fees and salaries. That's the nuts and bolts of it, because City will do it, PSG will, Monaco will, Chelsea will and Barca will. If you don't pay the silly money, then you won't get the top players, it's that simple. United are not the only team to baulk at valuations, but we have so consistently baulked that nobody would possible believe that we are competing with the big spenders. In nearly every one of our main transfer targets, price is the sticking issue. We even tried to sign the one player we did get this summer on the cheap, and that bit us on the backside.

One only has to look at Bayern's model to see how we could still compete at the top end without bankruptcy. They pick a few key targets every summer, pay the valuation, and combine these top class's talents with youth players. Their wages are a much higher percentage of turnover, but their turnover is largely reinvested back into the club anyway.

Instead of this model, we have gone down the road of minimal investment for maximum profits. We have baulked at the fees for the likes of Gotze and Martinez (whom we were interested in) and settled on players like Zaha and Fellaini instead. These aren't necessarily bad players, but they are not in the top class bracket either. It's telling that since the sale of Ronaldo we have only signed 3 players who could be considered automatic selections: De Gea, Valenica and RVP. It's no surprise that SAF's worst run in the transfer market has coincided with the Glazers tightening of the purse strings. We won't pay top fees, so we settle for squad players and young hopefuls.

But I'm being naive and next summer, even if we don't have CL football (and the related revenue) we will throw fiscal caution to the wind and get all the 'right' players.

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Oh dear

When they don't get it they don't get it. You can lead a horse to water but can't force it to drink. Watch the game later and try and post something objective.

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10 Jan 2014 18:47:13
Edds, have you got any information on Diego who plays for Wolfsburg never really see him linked to anyone and if he was to move do you think united would show any interest?

Cheers

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{Ed002's Note - I assume you have been hiding away.}

10 Jan 2014 21:28:20
Redman

Mad Hatter

You would give Moyes the money and then with all our money spent on players that still haven't improved things you would sack him?

This would leave a new manager with players Moyes thought were good and less or no money to invest, a very bad combination.

I hope we don't buy Moyes standard players this window and hope that the owners see the manager for the inferior variety he is and get a better model with the full amount to spend in summer.

Red Man

What I meant was that if we don't sack we need to at least back him.

Personally i'd prefer a better manager and give the money to him but as it stands Moyes is our manager. For how long depends on the next 3-5 games.

If the board are thinking he needs replacing then they need to do it sooner rather than later and allow our new manager to buy new players. But that in itself is no guarentee, would a new manager be given funds?

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Red Man Ok we get you don't want Moyes but the fact is he is our manager. Do you seriously believe we should starve him of funds? I think Fellaini is useless but guess what when he plays for us I want him to make Ronaldo look average not fail to prove me right.

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MH

I think the board know they need to spend money. However, take a step back, look at the Fellaini fiasco, regardless of his quality the extra £4m would rankle any businessman. Ignoring SAFs targets, dismissing his back room staff, it all adds up. It may suit the owners that it is difficult to get the top people this window.
Basically will they trust Moyes after what they have seen so far? Or would they better trust an experienced manager who has proven they can chose the right players the ones that win things?

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Grund

Major decision whether to give him notable funds. If they already doubt some decisions he has made,
do they commit to his new decisions now? If he is or has dithered it would likely again reduce the likelihood of them being keen to commit. How sure is Moyes on his targets, if you were the owners and asked for major cash you would want 100% certainty and no dithering.

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Grund

He will get funds and has the backing of owners and the board. He is not the type to rush into panic buying and that is a good quality if you are looking at it from an owners perspective.

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@Red Man

Sir Alex's targets were pretty average to begin with.

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10 Jan 2014 20:34:43
Rvp will be back for the chelsea game. Rushing players back only causes more problems all this moyes training methods and rvp crying is just nonsense haven't people got anything better to talk about

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Daily Fail reporting a FURTHER six weeks away .

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10 Jan 2014 20:27:08
Hi eds and posters what do you think of the reports linking us to Dede and Everton Riberio from Cruzerio. To me it makes perfect sense both top players both could play champions league they would both benifit to play higher level to get in the national squad for world cup. But can we afford them? can we convince them?. It would make a very good chapter in our history for both parties two boys from Brazil came and saved our season wouldn't ya just love it.

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To be honest any signings would be nice, But Brazilian flair might be just what we need to help out with our creative problems and the fact that our midfield and Strikers seem to be so far apart. A Brazilian in the attacking midfield position would help link up our forwards with midfield.

Dede would be a good replacement for Vidic and allow us to properly faze our Ferdinand, but I don't think we need a cb as we have Jones and Smalling who will be the cb partnership of the future.

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10 Jan 2014 20:20:29
Considering the negativity on here because of 3 defeats on the run, if we were to win our next 4 would everything then be different and not need a complete squad change. We have lost 8 games in all competitions yes, but this is with significant injuries on top of the fact that there is a big change at the club. City have lost 5 games in all comps., yet no sign of crisis there. If we have a first choice 11 for a run of games, the form and results will follow. A few signings are needed over the next year, hopefully at least one this window, but the squad are not as bad as some make out. What really bugs me is people slating players after poor results, even when they haven't played, Nani, Fellaini, Anderson for example. Now some even suggesting Rvp should go. Many think they know which players are needed, but how many wanted Kagawa, and how many now say he's not good enough. I believe its a team game and when the team is in form all these players can play there part, a few good games and many people on here will change their opinion of some. Remember just because someone is great somewhere else doesn't mean they will be best for us.(Veron)

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10 Jan 2014 19:56:39
A lot of you on here are slagging Moyes off and trust me I am not normally disposed to defending him. BUT. Ferguson ran this team into the ground and didn't sign the replacements needed over the last two or three seasons. Now why would that be I wonder? Disney - save your fingers - I know you were champions last season with much the same team. that was down to Ferguson's force of will and the mediocrity of the other teams in the division.
Ferguson got out whilst the going was good and ensured that the man following (his own choice by the way - thank him David) wouldn't 'come uo to scratch'.

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We are struggling to deal with SAF's retirement. The players have lost confidence and to top it off we are struggling with injuries. We are missing our two best players along with other important players at a time when you need your best players fit and playing together. I'd like to see how you would cope without Suarez, Gerrard, Coutinho & Sturridge.

Simple question for you and be honest. Where would we be now if SAF was still in charge and we were not missing our best players?

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I have had the same views and reasoning but why choose a man with no previous experience of being a winner? Just look at his body language he is totally out of his depth! Hope I am wrong but this whole episode could be the end of our recent glory years .

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A leader, a leading manager would have come in and got far more out the team. Sadly we appointed Moyes, dithering Dave who some of the Everton fans wanted rid of. The rest follows on from that basic mistake.

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Sydney are you forgetting we didn't have Suarez for 6 games, Gerrard missed games due to injury! Sturridge been out for a few games we've had right backs playing left back! The problem you have is Moyes training is so intense that it's causing injuries to your star players I.e Rvp! If fergie was still at the helm I think you would be challenging! Fergie had built up a fear factor where teams assumed they were going to get beat when they played you! In 3 months Moyes has demolished that fear factor and now teams are playing you and expecting to get something! I still think you will finish top 4 as you have to much quality waiting to come back from injury but that's only if Moyes can regain the confidence of the dressing room!

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RR!, great post and agree with most of it. MU have always had injuries, but this season we are getting injuries to everyone at once and the last thing we need right now is injuries. It's okay having one or two of your best players out, but when you are missing the majority of them it's difficult. I also think many have played whilst carrying injuries. I think the fear factor has been going for a few years now, what I think SAF brought was security to the players. I think they felt safe with him here. To be fair he has left a massive hole.

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One of fergys best achievements was winning the title with this team.
It's starting to show

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I think SAF knew what each player needed to perform! Like you said he protected the players! You have to remember as well that Moyes chose to bring his own staff in! The old staff would have known what each player needed and what there limits were in training! I listened to a podcast from a Dutch fitness coach who said at the beginning of the season that RVP would miss most due to his training! He said he went to watch United play a pre season friendly! RVP had just arrived after a long haul flight to literally be thrown into training the following day without rest and recupperation! You will come out of this hole stronger as long as Moyes understands that each player has individual needs and not all the team a required to do intense training! He needs to look at Ledley King as a prime example!

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Just one or two points Sydney as RRI has already made the point about players WE have had out of the team.
Last year excepted RVP has often been on the injury list so that could have been expected.
Ferguson's 'fear factor' wasn't what he imparted to opposing players but to his own. They knew he was (or used to be) ruthless and that failure to step up to the plate could have seen them shown the door. He
managed to build that reputation for ruthlessness by being in the job so long and being given overarching powers by the (various) owners.
I think the main problem is not your injury list, nor is it so much Af's departure (because his ruthlessness was on the wane as he edged towards to end of his working life), the problem has been the number of players reaching the end of their 'useful' playing life. I use the expression to mean no longer young enough or good enough for the top half of the premiership. I have no need to list these players - the vast majority on here could do the list much quicker than myself.

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Jred, I keep telling all my mates, one of Fergie's biggest ever achievements was winning the title with that team.

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Sydney

We led the PL with injuries 2 seasons ago. Whilst some of it might have to do with Moyes training, some is definitely dues to an aging squad and in general guys like evans, smelling, jones, young and nani who are younger have spent half of almost each season being injured and rarely available for selection.

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10 Jan 2014 19:56:33
Interesting rumour I heard tonight does anyone know if we are interested in Mateo Kovacic?

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I might have said something a few days ago:)

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I posted this based a week ago based on a dinner conversation with a guy who is an agent. He told me we are interested depending on inter willing to do a deal. Kovacic is young and quite inconsistent I have to warn but is a player that when he clicks he would be extremely good and very expensive and does not look too far away.

He is very positive and dribble and shoot from anywhere, which is sometimes the problem lol.

Same guy also told me we will be signing a left back domestically and a cm as we are concerned about carrick and he is not all good and might be out for another spell.

So far none has come through so I thought it was the wine and he was just talking bs and trying to impress a few people on the table :)

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Thanks GCU, I have seen him for Inter lot of promise. I'd much rather experienced players this window. Still I heard from my bro he'd heard we were after him thought I'd ask.

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10 Jan 2014 19:12:43
Hiya lads, not meant as a criticism or anything like that, but as an outsider looking in I would like to get your opinions on something.
I have watched DM's interviews regarding VanPersie in recent weeks. I find he's very evasive as regarding exactly what's wrong with him and also the timescale of his absence/return. Most teams seem to give an honest appraisal of injuries, time out etc. Do any of you lads find it a strange situation esp considering its January too? Be interested in hearing your thoughts, ed's included if any

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I don't read too much into the injuries to RVP, there's far too many rumours about him been unhappy for it not to be true, RVP has never liked the training style of moyes.

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Yes I find the whole thing quite odd too. Sydney posted something about being told that RVP injury is a lot more serious than being reported and he is going to be out for some more time like 4 more weeks.

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Shahram, I didn't take the guy seriously as I thought he was just mistaken or didn't follow football properly. Physioroom was saying he would be back for January the 1st, but a poster said RvP will not feature for at least another five weeks. Now I am beginning to think he/she knows a little more than I thought. I hope he/she is wrong, but he still isn't back and he returned to training a while ago. So where is he?

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He could be more evasive for example if the injury has been exacerbated by Moyes training methods.

It would be terrible timing if RVP did have an injury worse than thought and the last thing we need to hear right now especially if much criticised training methods were even partly to blame

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I was wondering since the interview of that dutch fitness guy, Raymond Verheijen who criticised DM's training methods if the two were related. I had heard he was back in training last week but haven't heard anything since and then I was surprised by DM's press conference today that there wasn't really a proper update. When he said a while yet does that mean days, weeks etc. As I said its all quite vague. Given the current situation of your squad with injuries, I mean he can be exact about Rooney, his recuperation, plans etc but nothing at all about Van Persie.

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Sydney

I just find the updates on him quite odd and as you say where is he. The papers say he was at first team training and on that basis can not be too far from a return. Either he is just being saved for the Chelsea game or his injury is more serious.

I am hoping it is the first one although not having played for about 5 weeks by the time we play Chelsea means he will not be very sharp or fit to play the whole game.

On a completely different subject just watched Cabella from Montpellier against Monaco and he is was very good. Fast feet, good touch and intelligent passer.

I am inclined to say he would be a proper improvement on what we have and worth the release clause they quote. He is a winger unfortunately and we definitely need to sell to make room for him.

I would expect to see him gone to a better team come this summer. Anyone have a view on him and watched him enough times?

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Simon, that's the scary thing. We have missed RvP so much at times this season, even when Rooney is playing there is still a massive void upfront.

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Rvp has the same injury he had at arsenal a few years back it troubled him on and off for 12 month .

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Sydney,
I alluded to that a few weeks ago on here. The void upfront has been caused by Rooney being played out of position. Now I don't mean on the team sheet as he's down as striker/10. He plays himself out of position. He doesn't trust the players around him. He is everywhere. Everything moves through him from back to front. At times he's centre back right through to striker. He covers literally every position bar goal keeper. The difference with Van Persie out is there's no outlet for him upfront to consistently relieve the pressure on himself. The ball comes back to quickly.
Teams have been taking him out of the game too easily because of this. Of course he's going to score a wonder goal, free kick occasionally to make up for it but on the whole, he has been far less effective because of his own work ethic. All his energy is being used in the wrong part of the pitch instead of were he should be more effective. That's the main reason you miss Van Persie so much or should I say he does.

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Why save RVP for the Chelsea game when all other teams are coming to town and winning?

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10 Jan 2014 18:25:36
So,, no Rooney or RVP for the game, for me we have to play kagawa to go behind Hernandez, wellbeck has hit a little form but we need pace against Swansea, nows the time to get back to winning ways, confidence is low, but let's all get behind our time,, they need us now more than ever.

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Would rather Welbeck up front than Hernandez to be honest. I'd go with De Gea, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Evra, Carrick, Fletcher, Valencia, Kagawa, Januzaj, Welbeck in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Could even give Wilfred Zaha a go on the wing but I doubt Moyes will pick him.

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I just think Hernandez is more of a threat, I'd love to see Zaha given a chance to shine but we don't see him in training and obviously isn't ready, time to start winning

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Hernandez is rubbish. The most overrated player at our club, and over the past year people are realising he was a once hit wonder first season. Lost his pace, scrappy touch, doesn't contribute - Franny Jeffers in disguise.

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10 Jan 2014 15:23:46
ED04. what's this fuss about Gundagaon. Reus. etc.
can you Just help all these people, in capital bold letters. THEY WONT BE MOVING IN JAN.

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{Ed004's Note - I didn't think there was any}

10 Jan 2014 11:41:00
Ed, a question. If we get Fletcher back to full fitness, keep Powell in the first team next year, have Carrick for another year and then go and sign two central midfielders, do you think we will let Cleverly go? I agree with most pundits in that the question has to be asked 'what does Cleverly do?' because to the naked eye, he does very little. He is neither defensive or offensive and offers very little. So do you think he could be surplus to our requirements by the end of August? If I was in charge it's a question I would be asking myself even if he is one of our home grown talents.

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{Ed004's Note - Im not sure what I would do with Cleverley tbh some games he shows glimpses of talent the next he's awful}

Cleverley will remain at MU for many years. All that will happen is better players will come in and he will play less.

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{Ed007's Note - DAFUQ!!!!}

I think he'll be gone within ywo years for sure.

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007, can you really see MU getting rid of Welbeck and Cleverley? They will become squad players when we bring better one's in. We have Anderson, Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher, Jones, Cleverley & Powell for midfield. Anderson will be sold. Fletcher will never be the same (I hope I'm wrong), Carrick has 1-2 years left in him and Jones will move to CB. That leaves Cleverley, Powell & Fellaini. A club like MU should have six central midfielders. So due to lack of quantity in midfielders as well as quality, Cleverley will stay put. Plus he's homegrown and he has been at the club since 12. Common sense. Cleverley will stay, but when we buy better midfielders or develop some from the academy, he will drop back and play less.

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{Ed007's Note - Syd it was only a few months ago you were banging on about Cleverley's past injuries and how he would be a mainstay of the Utd (and England) midfield for years to come once he got a run in the team. Are you now admitting that he isn't as good as you made out?
As for 'he has been at the club since 12', that means absolutely nothing to anyone, the club, the player or even the fans. It only backs up what I said all along, some people gave him the benefit of the doubt because he came through the ranks BUT more importantly it totally blinded you to the fact that he is no more than a very average footballer, you just couldn't bring yourself to say it because 'he has been at the club since 12'. Not all players that come through the academy are good enough Syd, no matter how much you would like us to believe it. Cleverley and Welbeck should be nowhere near any Man Utd squad let alone the first team.
This could be a big turning point for you. I'm trying to free your mind, Syd. But I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to walk through it ;)

LOL 007

Please show me the door and I promise I will walk through it. Already feel like we have bonded after you comments about Welbeck:)

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I still believe Cleverley will be occupying a MU midfield for many more years. Cleverley is almost always on the team sheet whether it be Jones, Fellaini or Carrick playing beside him. It's no coincidence, managers always pick him. When we buy better midfielders he will drop, but I still expect him to be around for a while and I think you expect him to be too, even if you don't think he should be there. Since his injury he hasn't stepped up to the plate like he is capable of doing, but he is still being chosen to play by the manager at the hope he will progress. He hasn't progressed the way I'd liked and I will be the first to admit that, but having watched him since 15, I know what he is capable of and I am pretty gutted that he isn't showing it. I think there are people at the club who think the same. He can do better, he should be doing better, but he isn't. Maybe he never will.

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{Ed007's Note - Come on Syd, when he was 15!! That was 9 years ago mate, I think you need to face the reality of the situation. If Cleverley is at Utd for years to come it is only because they won't have bought anyone better, it will be nothing to do with anything he does, I'll guarantee you of that. We get it, he came through the system and you are gutted he hasn't become the player you expected, neither did Keith Gillespie or Luke Chadwick though did they? Cleverley would not get in any of the team's challenging for the title or CL places and that says more about how standards have slipped at Utd than anything else.}

I think Welbeck given a prolonged run upfront with decent midfielders will be one of the best strikers in the game.

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10 Jan 2014 17:52:24
Majority of our matches are lost due to the midfield problems and due to this I would really like to see us move to a 3 man midfield so that we can really start to control the game more.

By doing this it would also give us a load of flexibility in formations as we would have the options of;

2 wingers, 1 striker or 1 No 10 role, 2 strikers up top

and could play the 3 mid in the options of;

A line of 3 or 1 holding 2 attcking (barca style) or 2 holding 1 attacking

with a few decent midfielders much like how I mentioned in my previous posts I feel this would give us a truely solid core to base the team around with only minor tweeks needed in other areas

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Our games have been lost due to us creating very little chances and finishing next to none of them. Our midfield is weak, but the reason we are not winning games is due to our attack not being good enough, not our midfield. If we had RvP, Nani, Rooney & Valencia playing, we would do much better regardless of midfield. We proved that last season.

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10 Jan 2014 18:59:12
Sydney

Probably Yes. But that still won't make a us a better team, In-fact a good team. and that's the reason we are suffering now. SAF left us with an average team.
If you need to succeed in CL, you should have a good team.

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Attitude, we need a better midfield and a better left side (LB & LW), but the reason we are suffering lately (last few months) is because we haven't had a fit Rooney and RvP playing.

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Rvp januzaj Rooney welbeck hernandez kagawa. What is wrong with that attack? The midfield is dead only carrick worth playing now and he's struggling with nobody to help him out

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Like what I suggested earlier if we got Hernanes and marchisio, imagine choosing a midfield 3 from them two carrick felliani fletcher cleverly and ando, could make some great football right there

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10 Jan 2014 17:41:07
Was sat round having a think about barkley and was thinking as much as i'd like to see him in a united shirt, odds are we won't see him move until after the world cup due to him wanting regular football to get into the WC squad which is something I currently do not feel we can offer unless either wazza or kagawa was to leave if not both.

my conclusion of how to best get him was to offer everton cleverly on loan for the rest of the season as he worked well under martinez at wigan and let's face it he's not doing much good here. In this loan deal we get an agreement that when barkely is to be sold united can have first refusal and depending upon the effectiveness of cleverlys loan there might be a deal to work out as a swap.

Just my opinions obviously we would need a midfelder to arrive befroe sending cleverly out on loan so we don't end up high and dry

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This is clearly a joke, right? I mean why would Everton want Cleverley? He wouldn't get near our team for a start. Let's be brutally honest here he doesn't offer anything. Also, why would Ross want to be leaving a team on the up for one sliding into mid table obscurity? Another reason Ross wouldn't even look Utd's way is a certain David Moyes, whom Ross despises.

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Offload your rubbish in return for the hottest prospect in english football. dream on lad.

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The only transfer for a few years between Everton & United may be when Rooney runs his contract down and joins Everton on a FREE

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Haha did I touch a nerve with yous three did I :P

And you've had no problem excepting our s***e before I.e neveile Howard Gibson ;)

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Just proves what's s*** at a top club like ours can still look good in your say no more ;)

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Jack, take a stab in the dark and tell us all who was Everton manager when we accepted Neville, Gibson et al? Actually Gibson turned out fine and was a bargain at £500k but enlighten us all who signed Utd rejects over the past few years. Do tell, there's a good lad.!

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I would have thought rather than try to have a pop at EFC like those ignorant neighbours of ours, you'd have more pressing matters of your own looking at the way Utd are playing at present.
You only have to browse through these pages to realise that half of your team are either past it or not good enough. So don't even consider coming back in for Everton players who have more chance playing CL next season at Goodison than they would at Old Trafford. As for thinking that Cleverley, Nani, Valencia or Young would actually displace any of our current team, then you're either r******* or deluded (or possibly a little of each)

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10 Jan 2014 17:03:30
il most likely get some stick for what i'm about to suggest but if we where to assume the likes of pjanic gundogan koke vidal would not be open to moves until summer due to there clubs currently having good runs the players I would choose to bring into our midfeild would be the following.

Claudio Marchisio
Hernanes

not saying I know how much they would cost but i'd imagine 40-50m would bring in the pair. Both highly reguarded in there international teams and would add something great to our midfeild. I have also choose these two as they will not be around forever hence would not block the progression of some of our youngsters over the long term.

One think I have noticed of recent is that when rvp and wazza are out our freekicks do not come to much. throught watching hernanes I have picked up that this is one of his strenghts to score from both freekicks and penalties.

both these players love to get forward and would definataly increase the goals and assits coming from our midfield.

using these two with carrick felliani and eventually powell could create some very interesting midfield partnerships wever we play with the midfield 2 as we have been of evenually switch to a 3

just a fort

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10 Jan 2014 16:55:00
Well Robbie Savage has said on tv what we all know.

His 12 players to go: Smalling, Fabio, Anderson, Cleverley, Giggs, Ferdinand, Buttner, Fellaini, Young, Nani, Valencia and Hernandez. It's a whole team - I wonder how it would fare in the Championship?

Of course Fellaini will stay for the time being if only so that Moyes doesn't have to admit his mistake quite yet and, depending on what we can salvage out of the deal, United doesn't have to take the full write off immediately.

When one adds the questionable re-signings of Rooney, Evra and Vidic, and whether Zaha and Kagawa figure in Moyes' plans even if they could make it in SAF's system, one can see the extent of the rebuilding job. The net cost has to be in excess of 200m pounds. United are most likely going to have to increase their debt levels to have any chance of remaining with the elite. Will it have to go back above 500m pounds? Clearly the Glazers needed a manager who could take a squad depleted by age and years of poor or no investment in certain areas, and rebuild it within financial restrictions imposed by excess debt. Ergo - Moyes.

A few months ago I suggested you watch the stock price. Investors, who understand our financials better than me, will be weighing in the effects of capital requirements and potential income losses. We are in a very dangerous situation. The decline has probably been worse than anyone on United's board expected. They probably have around 2-3 years to get the squad back to Champions League level. If they spend the money and fail, the whole house of cards could come tumbling down.

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I agree with a lot of what Savage says.

We're not going to be getting of 12 players though and a couple of them shouldn't be on that list, IMO.

But a good 5-6 should definitely be moved on, if we can find buyers that is.

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What mistake is that with Fellaini, mate?

He's played a handful of games, suffered from an injury, and just taken a step up to one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Nice to see people on here giving our new players a chance, getting behind them, and making them feel welcome.

Maybe, the football men at Arsenal and Chelsea, as well as at Utd, know nothing, as they were sniffing round him over the last few seasons.

And maybe the manager of Belgium, one of the fancied sides for the World Cup, who considers him an integral part of their set-up, knows nothing too.

I doubt it though.

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In times like these everything is over magnified and over exaggerated. Some of the players he is talking about will be here for quite a few more years. We will need 6 to 8 new players over the next 2 to 3 years and will make the changes whilst we stay competitive.

We will not need to borrow money to buy players mate :) Our finances are in good shape and we are what you call a self sustainable model and probably in better shape than a lot of the other big clubs especially if the new financial rules take place with meaningful penalties from Uefa.

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I really wouldn't pay to much attention to what savage says mate, its all for effect! If every club listened to his 'expert' analysis they would be signing 5-6 players a year, on top of that its all built so people will ring his radio phone in tomorrow which again = more exposure for him which we all well know he loves!

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What does he know he couldn't play football anyway just hard in the tackle he would be sent off after 10 mins nowadays

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10 Jan 2014 16:22:27
So we've lost three on the bounce for thr first time in over a decade, our home form is worst than our away form and our next two games are at home to the Swansea side that beat us just over a week ago, then away to Chelsea. And we now get told that Rooney may be back for the Chelsea game( but don't count on it) and RvP is out with no return date set.

I fully expect us to lose five games on the bounce, if we're lucky we may pick up a draw in one of those games.

Then we some how have to pick ourselves up and turn around the first leg loss against Sunderland or we will be out of the Capitol one cup( although that may be a blessing considering the potential spanking we would more than likely get against City in the final).

If we lose the next three games where will people stand on the Moyes debate?

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I still think he needs another season after this one. Even if we lose the next three. I want to see him have the squad back early in the summer and a major overhaul - no summer holiday for those not going to the world cup for example. I'd have them sitting watching every game of this season for their rest period - making it clear that it won't be tolerated.

He hasn't handled himself well, blaming other factors rather than our inept performances, but aside from saying he has been handed a complete shower of rubbish by Fergie & Co, he is a but stumped.

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Shappy,

We were unlucky to lose to Swansea last week and controlled most of the game. We will have Carrick and Rafael back and no Rio slowing down our back line. Why do you think we will lose the game? This post is not like you at all, very negative with what seems like no reasoning.

There is no point in asking what people will think about Moyes if we do that, it is like saying what will people think of Moyes if we win the league, it hasn't happened so it is impossible.

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Shappy

Are you ok mate and od you know something the rest of us don't.

We will win tomm mate. Chelsea will be a difficult ask especially if RVP and Rooney are both out.

If we get some players back for the chelsea game we will be difficult and for once I think we will play to draw and that might actually work but even if we lose it would be what everyone would expect.

I expect us to make the capital cup final.

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10 Jan 2014 16:45:09
We would Loose against Chelsea. But Swansea would be a close call. (I can't believe I sad this)

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I could see us getting a nice 3-1 win this weekend but thing is, its going to be pretty much the same team with the same rigid gameplan so Swansea will be well prepared to try and do the double over us at OT. i'm actually going to go for a 1-1 draw.

Chelsea will beat us, 1-0, IMO. So Moyes is going to be in an equally tight spot going into that second leg with Sunderland.

That said, I think we'll scrape a win there.

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You know where I stand
The result against Swansea is immaterial we have already seen enough. None of the great clubs would have put up with this but cajoling and pressuring trying to make us feel disloyal or guilty doesn't wash. Moyes is like Sexton, the only difference is the starting point. As every game goes by we lose a little lustre until eventually we will reach the point of apathy. I have seen it before and don't want to again. The club need to be decisive but I expect them not to be because of emotional pressure from the give more time brigade.
There is a reason why the fans of our main opposition have one theme, Moyes must stay, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out why

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A very valid and sensible post. How many games can we lose before we enough is enough. More importantly who would we be able to get in. For example if Moyes was to lose the next 3 games and was still in the job and then last his next game and got sacked that would take us right to the back end of the January transfer window. Would many managers be interested in taking over then. As much as we need to move on from SAF he may have to come out of retirement until the summer.

It's important to remain optimistic. Moyes tried to sign Baines in the summer and went for Fabregas and Herrera. He knows where we need to reinvest but wasn't given the money/full support of the Glazers and Woodward.

Subsequently Moyes will take the flack for poor results.

A badly handled summer transfer window and perhaps a reluctance to pay in the January transfer window asking prices will eventually lead to the departure of Moyes. I would rather see Moyes go after giving him budget to buy the necessary players and him performing as he should, as opposed to not supporting him financially and sacking him. We would look like Real Madrid, Milan etc. this would perhaps hinder us in getting a top coach.

Just food for thought

Ed004 what do you see as likely happening

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{Ed004's Note - Id be worried any money given to Moyes would be wasted he opted for fellaini ahead of Thiago that says it all}

If Manchester United were wearing a Stoke shirt this season and you had been out of touch you would not notice a difference. That is why we will struggle against Swansea, Chelsea and Sunderland in all likelihood. If you had to put your life on it you would err on draws.

We struggled all Xmas, scraping wins against Norwich & Hull. It is not a Manchester United the layman would recognise and that is why we need to take off our Manchester United specs when assessing the performances. We create next to nothing and have no ideas. That said I hope something clicks because it's getting harder and harder countering the negative banter!

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GDS

What game were you watching?
Swansea had more possession more shots at goal and on target how were we unlucky and how did we control the game?

Carrick is not exactly pulling up trees and will not control a midfield for us infact i'm yet to ever see that happen.

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Mad Hatter

You would give Moyes the money and then with all our money spent on players that still haven't improved things you would sack him?

This would leave a new manager with players Moyes thought were good and less or no money to invest, a very bad combination.

I hope we don't buy Moyes standard players this window and hope that the owners see the manager for the inferior variety he is and get a better model with the full amount to spend in summer.

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Red Man, so you've seen enough already? After 6 months?

So, say we go through the rest of the season unbeaten, will you still have seen enough after 6 months? Will those results still be immaterial?

Do you know how juvenile that sounds? - I don't care how many games he wins, I've seen enough already'!

You didn't want Moyes, fair enough. He wasn't my first choice either. But he's the manager now, whether you like it or not, so how about taking the view that we'll get behind him, and give him every chance to succeed?

Or are you just determined to think, 'oh, well I didn't want him here in the first place, so I hope he fails, just to prove my point'?

He's the manager of Man Utd. Accept it, it's done. Get behind him, just like you do with the players, and at least give him the chance to make his mark.

You and all the rest of the 'Moyes Out' brigade, are starting to sound like the hysterical Scouse fans who were screaming for Rodgers' head. And look what's happened when he got the chance to form his own team.

Another manager who'd won sweet fa before he got a big job, but was given more than six months to prove himself, despite supporters like yourself calling for him to be sacked.

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10 Jan 2014 16:10:49
Not a rumour but was wondering if sombody in the kno would be able to fill me in about the young french lad zouma. How good he is, and how good he could be? Strenghts weakneses etc.
And also if you was moyes would you take punt on him with it looking likely vida and ferdie going to be gone at end of season.

Cheers!

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He is physically huge and can actually injure you by a fair tackle but just the size of him is quite intimidating. He is not a good passer and not one you send out to the corners of the pitch and try and play out from the back.

He is very young and can be very good in a few years if he keeps progressing.

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10 Jan 2014 15:49:08
Hi Eds,
There is a load of talk in the media of the club moving for Marchisio at Juventus, I find this hard to believe as surely he isn't the type of player we need at the moment?
Could this be just a smoke screen for the Vidal interest?
Any light you can shed on this would be much appreciated.

KingGiggsy

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{Ed002's Note - Smokescreen?}

10 Jan 2014 16:46:54
ED02. Yes Ed. he is going to smoke in front of the screen.

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I hope we don't buy him, he isn't that good and would cost a lot for what he would bring. Major flop.

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Sorry Ed, I mean could the hype be mis-guided and the actual target be Vidal?
What do you think?
Thanks

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{Ed002's Note - I have explained the situation already.}

Ed002, is it a case of certain media sources getting intelligence that MU are after a Juventus player and them guessing it's Marchisio? When we know the interest is with Vidal? Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - No idea Syd. It is best to steer clear of the media.}

10 Jan 2014 15:49:29
Ed would you know if any contact has been made with Juve over Vidal?
Why don't we make them an offer they cannot refuse.
Like we used to in the old days

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{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

10 Jan 2014 14:14:10
Rooney and RvP out for Swansea game. Rooney's gone away to undergo some hot-weather training with a fitness coach and his family. I don't know if there's anything to read between the lines there or not, but doesn't look great for the match either way.

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You need to believe.

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I have faith in the fact we can win, it's just having your two first choice forwards out isn't the ideal situation. I actually like seeing Welbeck up there, I feel he adds a lot of creative play around the box and him and Januzaj seem to be the only ones who play with any impetus nowadays.

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What it means is Rooney has gone on his holidays. Didn't he go on holiday at the same time last year? Is it one of his contract stipulations ;)

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I agree with us winning but we could not be further apart on Welbeck. I can't see him here in 2 or 3 years if he stays at current levels.

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I think RvP may have had an injury setback. Perhaps being rushed back too early?

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Lots of speculation about RVP's injuries being down to Moyes's tough training regime. Does anyone know whether there really is some truth in this? RVP was, of course, frequently injured when he was at Arsenal.

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It's no secret that RvP and one or two others at MU are not happy with Moyes' training regimes. Personally I think the older players are suffering because of it. Two years without an injury to RvP as he was allowed to train his own way with MU, Arsenal & Holland, as soon as the Dutch coach comes out and criticises Moyes' training methods, RvP hasn't played or he has playing with pain injections. Carrick never misses an EPL game last season as he was allowed to train his way. He has been suffering. Rooney has had numerous injuries. Moyes is old skool and thinks that players must be trained hard, but sports science have said that it's not always beneficial, especially to older players. Moyes needs to let certain players train their own way or they will be injured more often than they will play.

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Thanks Sydney, I guess the problem is that, given the age of lots of our players, most of the first team will be training alone!

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10 Jan 2014 14:10:45
SO no RVP or Rooney again.

Will we now get an opportunity to see Kagawa in the number 10 role.

I hope so.

front 4 of Wellbeck, Kags, Jan & Zaha would be nice.

they can not do any worse than last week.

carrick and fletcher in behind

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That should we the line up we use but we know for a fact moyes won't put kagawa and januzaj in the same squad for some reason and won't give zaha more that a few mins to try prove himself :(

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That's the front 4 I'd like to see (Maybe Chico instead of Welbs) - but it wouldn't surprise me if Moyes goes with Chico, Welbs and Januzaj with a three man midfield of Carrick, Fletcher and Cleverley.

Januzaj has to start though!

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I think Hernandez fluffs his lines too much. I would go with Valencia (RW), Januzaj (LW), Kagawa (hole), Welbeck (striker). Carrick & Fletcher (CM). Rafael, Smalling, Vidic, Evra & DDG.

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10 Jan 2014 13:16:40
Ed I'm a long time reader of the site but first time poster. I just want to say that I really appreciate your insights on the transfer market. I know you're probably fed up of this kind of question but in your honest opinion do you think we will sign anyone of note this January if so who is our best bet? Cheers.
Stay red!

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{Ed002's Note - I have no idea what "of note" means to you. Sorry.}

10 Jan 2014 13:04:00
Right I feel I need to add my two pennies.

Phil Jones will be our future captain, we need to play him in CB! HIS FAVOURED POSITION

Zaha and Januzaj will be very good players. Januzaj has proved himself and Zaha needs confidence, leaving on the bench won't help at all.

David De Gea has the potential to be the best keeper in the world and is one of them at the moment.

Rafael is capable of playing in any team as a RB, he's attacking a defensive, may not be the best but i'd still put him in most teams and not have a problem.

These players are our future and we need to begin to build a team around them.

So here it goes, My Future Manchester United startign 11 - and the reasons why:

4-3-3

David De Gea (Tall shot stopper with the reactions of a cat)

Rafael (fast clver and is talented attacking and defending)
Jones ( the mans a beast, strong, fast, very good tackler and has leadership qualities)
Garay (Experienced, stong, plays in a physical league so can knock around with the best of them)
Alex Sandro( better than baines and shaw, plus he's only 22! he can cross, shoot, defend, head, it egs the question why we haven't but a bid in yet)

Fellaini (Moyes bought him over priced, and yes he has been a flop, but when he gets his evertone form back he will be physical and cause a lot of people problems, simple because they cannot handle his hieght and strength - GIVE HIM TIME!)
Gundogan (he has the capability to play CDM, CM, CAM he has strength technique and most of all the ability to pick a key pass, he has proved himself in the bundesliga and will be a top quality player for years to come)
Barkley (he is exactly what we need in my opinion, he has premier league experience, he can pass and most importantly he can dictate play, he runs at people and always looks positive on the ball)

Januzaj (young, fast, skillful and very clever, he's only 18 and is already one of the best wingers in the league. maybe ;) but still he will be world class in a few years and I have no doubt of that)
Zaha (skillful and positive, he also poseses the ability to do something very alternative, confuse defenders and normally get past them)

Welbeck/Henriquez (welbeck is coming new, he is fast and can place a ball, recently he has been scoring again and I belive he lead the front line in the future - Henriquez is young and has shown what he can do with Real Zaragoza, he can head a ball too which will be important when we play with wingers!)

ofc we will ned substitues. which is where your evans, cleverleys, carricks, youngs and hernandez's come in, they would be good squad players that can also impact a game.

So in 2-3 years I would like to see this team, PLUS I've been realistic, that's only 4 players in 2-3 years which is easily doable.

P.S. the reason their is no rooney/RVP

Rooney (i honestly believe he will leave, if big wages come in he will try and jump ship)

RVP (injury prone and old. he won't be the same player he is now in 2-3 years, in my opinion, offload him now so we can get good money for him)

If Moyes reads this website, dear lord let him read this.

And before the hassle, I know i'm trusting a lot of younr players but c'mon, their our future and the few I have picked will cope and you cannot deny that!

Now over to you guys.

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I think the main problem with this is that you seem to still have Young at the club. An oversight surely?

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H :) only because no-one would buy him ;)

ALSO

Michael keane
Nick Powell

they would be in my subs!

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Great post Harry - completely agree with everything.

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10 Jan 2014 14:48:51
Harry UTD / Harry Scousser.

I gave up when you said. Offload RVP now, we would get good money?.
30 years old 6 years in treatment table, yes he is world class and we paid 24 mill. Who on earth would pay half of that money, and what's his wage?

Gundagaon will move to Real.

Barkley would cost ud more money than Vidal, Since Everton would command somehwre in 30-40 mill.

Welbeck to lead the line? in 4-3-3?.

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Good post Harry, only area of concern is the our main striker.

Yeah Wellebeck is doing well, but cannot see him staying consistent.

If we are to lose Rooney (Transfer) and RVP (Injuries) we need a stronger striker to lead the line.

Christian Benteke would be ideal and he seems to be unhappy at Villa.

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10 Jan 2014 15:01:59
You don't have a cat in hells chance of signing Ross Barkley. Dream on

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Oil. seem to remember Everton fans saying that about Rooney?

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"Welbeck is coming new, he is fast and can place a ball, recently he has been scoring again and I belive he lead the front line in the future "

Harry we will be a mid table team if he lead our attack in the future and god help us :).

RVP is the best player we have, no chance of us selling him. Top Strikers are the hardest thing in football to acquire and he is one of the best and every top team in Europe would love to have him.

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OT7 no there you are wrong, Everton fans were resigned to losing Rooney because of the financial situation of the club at that time.Things are not the same now, Everton's finances are actually pretty healthy and they are under no pressure to sell anyone.Add to that the fact Barkley dislikes Moyes you can safely assume he won't be coming here.

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10 Jan 2014 12:42:24
Ed if this could possibly go on banter then that would be brilliant, would like to hear peoples opinions on this.

Over the years Manchester United has been a very attacking team, that is our philosophy. There is no better attacking side in the world at the moment than Bayern Munich. Pep (who I would of loved at United) is playing his 4-1-4-1 formation with either Martinez or Schweinsteiger holding. Mandzukic up top with Ribery, Thiago, Gotze and Robben behind him (different combinations).

Now, I think that this could work for us. We talk about the 4-2-3-1 but I wonder if this could work better, to be honest it could work now with the players that we have although upgrading our players would make it much more effective. For the purpose of this I will assume we have signed some players though. Rafael is a very good attacking fullback and Coentrao would be another good attacking fullback. Central defence we would probably have Evans and Jones or a new player.

Fellaini I think has been bought to play that defensive midfield role, if he puts his mind to it and applies himself then he will be capable of doing so well. Jones or Carrick could both play there though. RVP would be the main striker when fit, although I think we will need to invest in that region soon. The front 4 would work beautifully if we could get Marchisio. I would have Januzaj and Reus operating the wide areas with Marchisio and Rooney operating centrally. It is important to field a player in the 4 that is comfortable at playing central midfield - the beauty of it is that both Rooney and Marchisio would be willing to drop deep. In years to come Powell could operate this position.

This formation is naturally pressing as there are a lot of men higher up the pitch winning the ball back. We would have a man shielding the defence and mopping up the lose balls and two attacking full backs. We already have a world class goalkeeper and in Jones and Evans / new player we have the possibility of a good pair.

Really interested to see all of your opinions.

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Fresh! this is a great post mate! I woudnt argue with any of it except Marchisio, hate to say it but I don't like him, i'd prefer gundogan who can play both in that position u said and behind them.

Other than that mate, quality post!

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Again quality Fresh.

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I would of said Kagawa instead of Marchisio but we would need someone who is capable of playing as a true central midfielder. I too would prefer Gundogan but out of anyone at Dortmund I would have Reus. They are going to keep one of Gundogan or Reus because they have already lost Gotze and Lewandowski. I love that formation though, it would be such exciting football.

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10 Jan 2014 12:16:22
I do not understand this stance that seems to be on this site that United do not change managers - are you all so young you do not remember the changes after Sir Matt and before Sir Alex? Trust me United do sack for non-performance.

There is a real danger now that we are in a nasty downward spiral. Mistakes have been made, Gill leaving at the same time as SAF, Moyes replacing all the backroom staff. We have many positions with ageing players. Add to that Moyes has no pedigree in Europe to attract the right players, and with the advent of the benevolent owners at other clubs transfer prices have reached a point where there is no point in competing, and if top four is not achieved this becomes redundant anyway.

United changed transfer policies at the rise of the Chelsea/city money bags approach, and rightly so. But to buy emerging top players while the only sensible approach, requires consistent purchasing because there will be those that don't make it - compare Ronaldo with Nani if you don't believe me. We have failed to do this.

This January is an impossible time, any player worth having will look for club consistency prior to the world cup, not take a chance on a new league or where team places are not certain. Then next summer there is a world cup - no player will want to move before it, and prices will inflate during it for anyone doing well.

Forget the big names, build from youth and accept a few years of lower levels of achievement in the longer term interests of the club.

Is Moyes the one? I don't think so, I would rather have a manager with some European pedigree and a track record of playing the united way (Sir Matt defined a style that Sir Alex remained true to - to now try to play more defensively requires supreme defenders that we do not have (well actually we did they are just a bit too old to perform at that level now). Even if Moyes is the right man - I am equally uncertain the backroom team is the right one. Why oh why has Butch Wilkins not been approached - proven track record in premiership and ties with United? But maybe the biggest problem of all is that Moyes inherits a man who has no transfer experience. Moyes is known to look at every detail of player before moving - which is fine if you have the time, but he has no experience of the level of a United rather than the cut price players that he did a mediocre job at Everton with (odd how now he has left they are doing even better!).

I really believe this is a big problem time, and we are in for some lean years, but action now is needed if we are not to emulate the collapse that Liverpool perfected.

TML

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TML

Totally agree
Moyes reminds me of Sexton, and we wasted years on him. There are quite a few on here and many not who want decisive action

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TML
One of the best posts I have read on here and completely sums up the present situation.

I agree with everything you have said.

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10 Jan 2014 12:12:59
Sorry to be negative but I really don't think that anyone will come in this January.
I haven't a clue why because there are players available like Contreo, Llana, Cabaye and Herrera who are all eligable to play in the Champions League and will improve our team no end.
Their is no excuse that Moyes or the Equaliser My Woodward can come up with.
They both simply need to pull their fingers out of their backsides and bring in some new faces.
If they don't I can't see us getting a top 4 finish unless Rooney and RVP come back into the side for the remainder of ths season and stay injury free and start scoring some goals.

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10 Jan 2014 11:37:59
We know that Guillem Balague makes half of his stuff up, but the point he has just made in an interview I have seen makes sense. He said that he spoke to Moyes a few weeks ago and said that he wants to model United on Bayern but he just doesn't have the players to do so. He wants attacking fullbacks, a high pressing midfield and a flexible attack - if this is his aim then we will be moving away from the 4-4-2 once he gets the players he wants. I think at the moment he is doing the best with the absolute crap that he has and 4-4-2 is the most befitting formation. But I think that this will change to something more flexible and modern, perhaps even a variation of Bayern's 4-1-4-1 formation that Pep likes. He also thought, along with Stan Collymore, than Marchisio would be a good fit for us and would be around the £20 million mark, it just depends if we want him badly enough.

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I read an article before Moyes’ joined us, about how he wanted to manager in Germany.

He definitely needs to clear out the majority of the squad, IMO. There are too many players’ that are not good enough or just passed it. Even Rooney should be sold if he doesn’t want to be here. The same goes for RVP.

The younger players’ at the club are the ones that we should be looking to get in the side, and supplement them with top quality players’ who want to play for the manager. Too many of our so called players’ have let the manager, the club, themselves and the fans’ down.

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"I think at the moment he is doing the best with the absolute crap that he has"

Wow what great supporters of this club we have on this site.

Granted currently, we're not the best team but the majority of the players you've just labelled as 'absolute crap' won the PL last season, show some f'ing gratitude Fresh.

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Ozwald - this is the problem, we seem to want to show too much sentiment. whilst that would be nice, it isn't how every one of our competitors operate, unfortunately to succeed we need to be ruthless in these times - if it doesn't work anymore upgrade it, don't hope it starts back up again. We look crap and the only thing we can judge it on is what happens on the pitch, we are boring and lack any imagination. Big changes need to happen.

Fergie knew when to be ruthless - Ince, Stam, Keane, Kanchelskis, Beckham, Rooney etc. He didn't have time for sentiment and that is why we remained successful for so long.

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Ozwald, I support the team but don't rate most of the playing staff. What is wrong with that? I still cheer them on!

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Ozwald, I support the team but don't rate most of the playing staff. What is wrong with that? I still cheer them on!

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10 Jan 2014 11:10:22
Really brilliantly constructed article on comparing out midfield to that of the top 8 teams. City have a staggering 25 goals and 20 assists coming from midfield. We have 6 goals and 4 assists from midfield - the difference is amazing. Furthermore, Cleverly and Carrick don't have a single assist to their names in the League this season, another appalling stat for our first choice pair of midfielders. I know that we all knew that the midfield was a problem, but putting numbers to it is helpful I find. This must be why we are looking at Marchisio for a goal threat.

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Lies, damned lies and statistics, (Mark Twain who attributed the phrase to Benjamin Desraeli but there is no proof and is often accredited to Twain himself).

Right end of history snippet but trying to gauge a players worth through stats can be misleading to say the least.

Although in this case you may have a good argument; Carrick for me needs too much time on the ball to spot an opening, sits too deep and generally slows the play down. Cleverley ( that just has to be an oxymoron) goes missing far too often in a match but does not slow the play down as much as Carrick but offers very little going forward.

Just my opinion of our two main midfielders.

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I agree, both need replacing for me. I would quite like Powell to take Cleverly's place in the squad and for Cleverly to move on to pastures new.

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Ive been beating this drum for ages. We have no goal threat whatsoever from any of our CM options. Nobody to assist, nobody who can arrive in the box and score, nobody who can shoot from distance and test the keeper - nothing.

Just a selection of ordinary midfielders who play sideways, safe passes and plod away. I know I'll get slated for this, and I do rate him and appreciate him, but I still put Carrick in this category.

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10 Jan 2014 11:02:26
Reports that Nemanja Matic's agent has said he wants a move to the premier league. I would imagine Chelsea would be interested in taking him back but I would love him in our starting line up. I'm guessing 25-30 mill? Benfica have been a selling club in recent years. Is he a Moyes player? Opinions?

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10 Jan 2014 12:47:00
reverse Question. Is Moyes his manager?. Matic is simply brilliant.

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10 Jan 2014 11:01:32
I think it is worth applauding Willie Morgans stance on the main talking point at the moment. It is not often that ex players rise above the usual platitudes and say what many fans actually think.

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Favourite player from my youth gordon hill gave it to us straight the other day aswell fella, he said an 8th place finish is best to hop for at the minute with this team and fellaini is a massive waste of money.

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Fair play to him, most ex players are still employed in some capacity at utd, wether that is mutv or match day support for the executive lounges.this means as we see regular on mutv, you will only get the clubs line and not what they really think.

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MG

Thanks, missed the Gordon Hill comments but remember him well. Always remember the excitement following his goal against Derby in the 76 semi final. Hope their comments are heard and not brushed aside in order to hold the party line.

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10 Jan 2014 10:21:43
Finally our first signing of the new year:

(NYSE:MANU) Manchester United Football Club has today announced a multi-season sponsorship agreement with international spirits brand Aperol, to become the club’s official global spirits partner.

Thank god for that, we can now really look forward to what comes next.

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Well if we can't get any midfielders I suppose alcohol is the next best thing!

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So glad we signed something again that isn't a player. If only Woodward was as good at signing players instead of deals.

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This is all Woodward is there for. To sign deals off the pitch, and make the fans believe he's working hard to make signings on the pitch. Hence our behaviour in the market this summer.

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10 Jan 2014 08:37:25
Peashooter no apologies needed, it helps being deluded at the moment. eases the pain. Hopefully things turn when Rvp and Rooney return.

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10 Jan 2014 07:47:17
Does anyone else think that we should be using the players that we don't want/need/use as trade bait in player plus cash deals?

Kagawa hasn't settled and not influencing games, dortmund want him, why not swap him plus cash for reus or gundogan

Nani is apparently wanted by juventus, why not swap him plus cash for any of juventus midfielders

falcao would be my pick as a striker as he isn't cup tied, he is an absolute beast and has scored goals in portugal, spain and now france

shaw or coentrao as lleft back as baines is 29 and will cost way too much

another centre back to partner jones or evans

bring nick powell back from his loan in january and give him a chance, he wouldn't do any worse then some of the others that are playing

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10 Jan 2014 09:25:37
Player swap are very raret these days and its not that simple. Reus or Gundagon won't happen in Jan. Gundagaon would probably off to Madrid. and Reus is wanted at City.
Nani would be off regardless of any player incomings. Juve have set a fee and that would seal the deal.
Vidal is the ideal player we want, but he is bing looked by Some Europeon Power hosue.
Not a chance of Falcao and Not at 60 mil. Impossible.
I don't have any idea on coentrao, But Luke shaw has snubbed almost all PL clubs to remain at Southampton.
There are some players who actually value things more than Money.

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Doesn't work like that mate, transfers aren't that simple and clubs targets change constantly

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Darv

If only everything was as simple as that.

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I understand that its not simple to complete a transfer but if these clubs are actually interested in these players and we are interested in their players, it does seem quite simple!

i suppose i'm just getting frustrated with our lack of activity as all fans are, its quite annoying that they have had 3 or 4 months to work out their targets and they seem to have not made a move yet

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{Ed002's Note - But it is simply made up fantasy type stuff.}