Manchester United Banter Archive November 10 2014

10 Nov 2014 17:46:39
When you look at the united and arsenal defending and then look at the attacking players both teams have it got end up 10-10

10 Nov 2014 20:24:55
Sanchez is gunna have to get all of there's lol

10 Nov 2014 21:13:55
Its got 0-0 all over it.

What's the betting Welbeck scores and van Persie doesn't - just to add insult to our huge injury list!

{Ed007's Note - If Welbeck scores the winner I'm giving this place a miss.}

1 good game against united will erase 5 average seasons playing for united

10 Nov 2014 23:23:23
I wouldn't be able to deal with the beasts 'I told you so' post!

Haha - I wouldn't be that blatant, although my unfortunate "I told you so" list is building up at the minute.

I think it has 0-0 written all over it as well to be fair. If RVP plays he should want to do just as well as Welbeck will want to do, I just hope he uses these next 2 weeks to build a time machine and goes back to capture his 2012 form.

These Intl breaks are destroying me.

11 Nov 2014 16:20:16
I normally hate the international breaks too, Beast.

However, we're currently top of our group, with three wins from three, and in with a chance of qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in nearly 30 years, so I'm loving the internationals just now. They're proving a welcome respite from Utd's woes at the minute.

I would drop Van Persie and play Mata instead give him a right kick not playing against Arsenal and drop Januzai for Valencia if Rafael is fit and

10 Nov 2014 16:11:39
Hi very Long Time reader but first Time post . Recently i looked at the table and i found it very strange the amount of goals we have conceded are very fimilar to the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal. I think our main problem is balancing out the attack to maximus the strength in our team.

I don't think there is much wrong with what is happening at United. Of course, after we spent a lot of money and having a top class manager at the helm, people expected instant success, and that just wasn't going to happen.

Considering we are just 3 points from 4th place, I for one don't see why some have become so negative towards the team and manager. The team are a far cry from the team I watched last season.

They looked very like the team of last season at the weekend.
Thankfully arsenal city liverpool spurs have been just as bad

No Defence - This is the point I have been making, we don't look good going forward. We are not linking or playing with any pace going forward, this is why we can't break teams down like we should.

Sam - The problem is that so many other teams are playing badly as well, that doesn't make it ok, we should be capitalising on this, not using it to excuse where we are. Look how far we are from the bottom, its closer than the top!

Beast,

I don't agree that we are playing badly. In fact, there are, IMO, more positives than negatives.
The fact that the manager hasn't been able to field a settled back four has forced him to once again adjust the system.
As much as I think we should be playing with a diamond system, I can see why he has changed it to a 4141 system: Our defence isn't good enough.

I fully expect us to be in the top four before christmas. I base this judgement on the fact that there are clear signs that a number of players are coming into form; and with a fit Falcao leading the line, and the reintroduction of Herrera into the starting line up, I can see us stepping up another level or two.

On a website they had the table from last year after 11 games. We had 20 points and 2 points off 4th place with city on 19 points and having played a lot tougher schedule.

I would hold off anointing us and making excuses, this team needs to play a lot better with the players we have.

Sam,

Fair enough mate, its good to be glass half full. I agree messing with the formation is ruining the pattern and flow, but I suppose LVG is accountable for that as well because he should know how weak we are defensively and should have addressed this. Any fan knows how injury prone and weak we are back there.

Once we have a settled defence it may allow for a more attacking focus, because we are not attacking well with the players we have at our disposal now. It should be much better by now.

A major problem in some ways is that arguably our best player over the past 3 games has been Fellaini - he won't drop the DM and he won't drop Rooney, and he doesn't seem to want to drop an in form Fellaini. Which means he is left moving ADM out of position and means Herrera misses out. Its just a big mess.

Shahram, While I agree with points made by both sides, there are some things that are undeniable. While people might argue that we have "played" much better this year, the fact remains that we have scored 7 goals less than what we had this time last year. No one can deny that the fixture lists from both the years are not even compareable. So we had 7 more goals, 7 more points after facing tougher opposition last year. A solid case for the doubters. LVG should take some accountability.

Deeps.

Deeps
Thats a very good point .

Beast, I agree about Rooney being dropped. I also think we should bench RVP.
For me, Herrera must play because he adds tempo to our play.

GCU, that is just my opinion, and one that I will stick by.
There has to be a sense of perspective I think. Yes, we have spent a lot of money and probably should have more points on the board. I am not arguing against that. I just think there are extenuating circumstances that should be factored in; like having to play with a different back four every game, the corollary effect being a team that is having to constantly adjust, hence why we are looking a bit blunt on the attacking front: The system currently employed has been designed to stop teams playing through us so easily.

One thing that I don't agree with is the manager sticking with RVP up front. He is clearly lacking in form, and a stint on the bench my force him to buck his ideas up.

So after spending a fortune on attacking talent we are having to play a system to stop teams playing through us .
Im all for giving a manager time but i'm very surprised by how happy people are with lvg so far.

10 Nov 2014 23:34:11
Jred,

You say you are shocked but I don't know why. The same people saying lvg needs time were also willing to give moyes a lot of time at this stage last year. It wasn't the beginning of the season why moyes got sacked, it was the lack of progression and the clear lack of confidence in the manager that the players had.

There were whispers coming from the dressing room that there was unrest almost all season. I have heard none of that this time round and if anyone had the balls to say anything negative lvg would rule with an iron fist, not sure moyes had that type of control.

Lvg has had 11 games and most of them with a terrible injury list, there are things that can be criticised but it's obvious he needs more than 11 games before he can be judged properly.

GDS2

Said before there are those who felt Moyes was hard done to and were defending him until the moment he was rightly sacked, that is what is driving them. Comparisons with last year are fatuous, Moyes inherited the Champions, a fit Champion team and it got worse during the season because he didn't have the respect as he lacked the gravitas. LvG has that and as you said there will be no dissent. LvG has had to pick up the pieces of a broken team and club after the absolute mess of last season plus horrendous injury problems in defence particularly.
Yes we need to see improvement but the game by game assessment is pointless, LvG knows it has to improve and I have considerably considerably more faith in him than that dunsel last season. Yes performances need to improve but at least we know LvG has the ability to do that. You can see it unless the person wants to "be right about Moyes all along".

Redman
In your own words " i wanted moyes out from day one "

You spent every week having a go at moyes from day . Every result that went wrong was moyes fault .

gds
Your quite right the same people who where making excuses for moyes this time last season (you know the ones, the ones who never accept anything is wrong and run round shouting, don't panic don't panic) soon changed there minds when they worked out united weren't going to win anything.
What makes me laugh is the same things moyes got battered for lvg gets excused for.

Both managers had difficult jobs moyes had a team that had peaked imo and needed rebuilt.
He was also following fergy he needed time imo, i would of give one full transfer window to move the players on he didn't want and get the players in he did.
Lvg also has a big job but following moyes should imo be easier plus 200mil of talent added.
I didn't think moyes was the man for job but you won't of seen any post from me about sacking him OR how well he was doing as he clearly wasnt.
Same goes for lvg, i'm actually really surprised that this team that people keep telling me are playing such better attacking football have scored 7 less than last year.

As i have before i think di maria made a difference once his performance have tailed of so have united.
We still don't have an idea what our best team or formation is .
We still have issues at the back and cm.
We still don't look quick enough .
We still have trouble breaking teams down when they sit back .
We still have injury issues.

As i have said before this is a big job and will take time moyes lvg or any other manager will need time . My opinion will stay constant i doubt others will

11 Nov 2014 08:28:59
Jred,

But you seem to be creating an argument where there isn't one, you make out like all my posts I am saying what a great job lvg is doing where as actually all I have said is that I think he is a better man for the job than moyes and in my opinion will be more successful.

All the things you say we still have or don't have have been issues for a long time, even when fergie was here in his last couple of seasons we struggled to break teams down and never had a settled back 4 or team in general, but everybody seems to forget that because we won the league.

I think at this stage last year we had probably done a little better but moyes didn't have the integration issues the lvg has had or such a big injury list. It wasn't the first 3 months that got moyes sacked, it was his last 3 months as I mentioned earlier. If lvg goes on to lose 3-0 at home to our 2 biggest rivals with a team who look like they have no clue then I will start to question if he is the right man, but do you really see that happening this time around?

With a new manager there will be ups and downs and we have seen that so far, no team plays attractive attacking football every week, some weeks you have to grind out results against teams willing to sit back and defend and that's what we did on Saturday. It wasn't pretty but we got the points.

Like it shocks you it shocks me to see people suggesting lvg should be sacked or isn't the right man based on 11 games and as I have said before, I have not heard one person at old Trafford suggest he should be sacked, and if they did I imagine they would be ridiculed.

Jred
A correction

I said Moyes would be a disaster before we knew and as soon as the rumour started and certainly before he was appointed or even confirmed and absolutely vehemently didn't want him because it was obvious what would happen and did. Once appointed despite being utterly devastated I tried to see what he was trying to do. I didn't start having a go until it became obvious he was out of his depth completely. It didn't take too long.
Counting off every game and comparing LvG to Moyes last season is a pointless exercise, LvG is a different level manager having to deal with the mess, fallout and failure of last season as well as everything else.

I wanted to give Moyes time right until the death. The sacking happened just as I had given up hope in him, he looked broken and needed the sacking more than we needed to sack him. Instead of ignoring that I have simply learnt from it and haven't deluded myself into thinking LVG is doing any better, he is doing far worse without a shadow of a doubt.

We can all gives reasons for this and that, dependent on our own personalities but the key thing to look at is the performances and the results, neither are anywhere near good enough for Man Utd. When you factor in all the other aspects of money, lack of Europe, who we have played it looks even worse, of course there have been injuries, new systems, new staff, but the manager is responsible for that as well.

But just looking at the cold hard facts we are worse than last season in both key aspects of the job a manager is paid to sort out, performance/results. 3 Years to sort this out, don't make me laugh!

11 Nov 2014 10:07:21
Beast,

If you think LVG is doing 'far worse' than Moyes then all I can think is that you didn't watch many games last season, you haven't watched much this season, or you just have a general problem with LVG. You keep banging the same drum but what you are saying is absolutely ridiculous. If any of my mates said what you are saying down the pub they would get laughed out of there.

I am assuming when we finish top 3/4 you will be coming on here and accepting you were totally wrong? Or will you be doing the same as usual, you will change it to 'well he should be doing well look how much money was spent'.

I think like you say it comes down to personalities, I have an optimistic one and enjoy supporting United, I spend a lot of money going to all the games and I make sure I enjoy them, whereas you are extremely pessimistic, you are expecting the worst and making your opinions suit that. I think we should probably not bother as we are never going to agree and like I say, if the optimistic people are proved right you will just change your argument to suit you.

I agree 100% with Red Man about comparing last seasons results and points and goals to this season is pointless. jred keeps telling me we shouldn't compare LVG to Moyes but then says 'we have X less goals than last season at this stage', doing exactly what he said we shouldn't do. LVG is having to deal with the mess Moyes left us in, the players had no confidence and that needs to be rebuilt, which it slowly and surely is being. We fought back against West Brom and against Chelsea and broke down a poor Palace team eventually despite not being at our best.

@Red Man and GDS2

I just think that we should learn from the blind faith and support put into the manager from last season. The squad is in danger of thinking its OK to do just enough. I would have been far more comfortable had Van Gaal lived up to his bullish arrogance reputation and said the target is to win the league this season (I don't expect us to, but I know this is how top managers approach the game)

I honestly don't care what LVG has done previously at his clubs, its irrelevant. What he is doing now, where we are in the table, the same slow sideways passing and poor defending, and what his plan for the future of the team is what I care about. Van Gaal has admitted he still doesn't know his best 11, his best formation and quite frankly saying Di Maria dribbles too much is like saying sugar is too sweet. The creative midfielder we bought is being benched and Fellaini plays instead.

Van Gaal hasn't been able to bring the best out of our best players yet, has played them out of position and somehow RVP who has been off the pace for a good season and half now is still starting. I don't buy into the "philosophy" because I haven't seen any yet, there is no consistency in tactics or vision. It changes every week.

We really shouldn't be struggling to break down Palace at Old Trafford or have to "fight back" playing "lump it to the big man Fellaini" at west brom. This is not what Manchester United is about. The two creative midfielders who are supposed to open up the kind of game against palace for us in Mata and Herrera were sat on the bench and we went with width of Januzaj (who has regressed) and Fellaini who is average at best and never going to break down a team sitting deep. One more thing interesting before the game Van Gaal had said that Carrick was selected to do a job Chamakh. God save us if we have to worry about Chamakh instead of trying to impose our own game on a team like Palace. If these are the tactics we are going to employ then I'd rather Pulis or Big Sam manage us instead.

There is no game management from Van Gaal and no instructions during the game to the players, only at half time. We look a bit lost and without any solid plan in the final third of the pitch, a complete lack of focus. With the wealth of attacking talent we have it hasn't been anywhere near good enough. I won't put any blind belief into him until we see some progress.

You and me both know this, the only difference is that you have put "belief" into Van Gaal because of his previous record, but when I look at his previous record I also see the three spectacular fallouts he has had where things have gone terribly wrong and it is not reassuring at all

11 Nov 2014 12:09:40
You know we won on Saturday don't you? I think I need a break from this page, some of the posts make me embarrassed to be a united fan.

'That's not what united are all about' is so arrogant, unfortunately at the moment we are a team with a new manager trying to recover from a poor season, it will take time, I've said from the start of the season I won't get too excited by big wins and I won't get despondent about defeats and draws this year, let's just enjoy the ride and see where we end up, I imagine most people will be happy by the end of the season and our quality will shine through, if not then I'll accept I was wrong and we will go again next year.

Maybe we watch football for different reasons, I love the club and it is a hobby, I enjoy it and don't spend much time moaning about it, if we were in the championship I would still be there every week enjoying it but fortunately we are lucky enough to support a team who will be in Europe next season and more than likely challenging for major honours.

Like I said, I just enjoy it, maybe others don't.

REDFAITH

LvG was not my first choice for some of the reasons given. so for me it isn't blind faith. The club made a right mess last year and went the totally opposite end of the spectrum this year. I don't, however see the point of comparing apples and oranges between last season and this. I think we can all see LvG isn't perfect but given his experience I am prepared to give him more time

Redfaith
top post imo (again )

Gds
It might be the glazers, it might be moyes it might be lvg your argument is always everythings ok.
Its ok to give an honest assesment you can enjoy a football match and give an honest opinion with out making excuse after excuse .

Just out of interest what is it you don't agree with in any of my above post ?

11 Nov 2014 17:22:04
Nothing mate, I agree with everything you said.

10 Nov 2014 09:43:17
Hi ed
Alot of papers claiming pique would rather join Chelsea and hummels would rather join arsenal. Do you think this is the case or would either be interested in us to if they were to become available?

{Ed002's Note - I cannot see Barca selling when they cannot buy to replace him. Hummels has been done to death. RTP}