Manchester United Banter Archive December 11 2011

 

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11 Dec 2011 23:03:27
It's a big game for Chelsea, City and United tomorrow.

If Chelsea win they can rightly claim to be back in the title hunt. We have played mediocre football for most of the season, with numerous injuries having to be managed. City have received lots of acolades for their early season form, so there is an expectation, no doubt within their club, but certainly in the media, that they are massive favorites for the title. The fact is, if they lose, they are only 2 points ahead. With Yaya Toure, a big influence (imo) unavailable due to the African Nations Cup early in the new year, the pressure will be on!

Expect Fergie to quickly point out that we always come good in the 2nd half of the season, and emphasise we are yet to hit consistent good form (and yet, we are only 2 points behind!).

If City aviod defeat, they would have successfully negotiated another difficult away fixture, and gives them further confidence and belief that they are huge favorites to win the PL title.

This is by no means a decider, but leading into the Christmas and New Year period, this is indeed a big game!

Sir Alex x

Believable6 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 20:38:52
why is ferdinand playing on the left of cb, he did it at the weekend as well, when evans is a left footed player. does anybody think hes fell out with smalling or something and thats why fergy want play them in the middle together, because they are probably the best two for the cb role.

aaallj5

Believable3 Unbelievable7

11 Dec 2011 20:14:37
read a report on that bayern may offload robben so that they could sign reuz....doesn't look likely but we could test the bavarians resolve by slappin in a bid of 20mil.....would be a great addition to our squad....on his day, the dutch dome is unplayable....what are ur thoughts guys?

Believable2 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 20:06:32
Although I very very very disagree and am distraught with the so called "rooney saga" that is sweeping this page, I will take this into account.

Say Rooney does leave for a 70 million transfer to real ( very realistic) , what could we do with it? Well shud fergie sign these: modric(35 million) cavani(35 million) and then splash the cash on another cm like DIARRA ?

Believable1 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 19:40:55
Red man I just read this post "Spoke to several yesterday who are
struggling to pay." red man I respect where your coming from. Prices of tickets are crazy pay that players get and the respect the fans get isn't enough as it was before. I'd like to see the glazers show more respect to this. You got my respect even if we don't see Eye to eye. The sooner the midfield is addressed the better. ..constantine..

Believable0 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 19:12:03
Red man i'm a realist too. I've seen families fall apart friends businesses. In my own personal life too. I know what can seem bad can change in an instant with only the smallest of changes. I also know that worry serves only to feed any slide and clouds judgement and takes focus away from positives. I don't think we are in as bad a position and don't think i'm any less of a realist than you. Though I think i'm doing my popularity here no good for not falling into your camp. Your as much thought police as you were accusing me of. That's enough on the subject only time will tell. ..constantine..

Believable2 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 18:36:11
Keano i'm not sure my reply to is working so I post again. Apart from man city there was a goal against arsenal a hattrick maybe it was west ham? The only goal against chelsea in one game in the champions league. Got the only goal against barce. We all know the problems of last year but every season excluded he has consistently scored against big clubs. I think you'd find if you search that its more than ronaldo. I believe rooney's agent used rooney's care for the club for his own agenda. But you'd all prefer to believe the boy only cares about money. He has had a underperforming midfield behind him and had to drop deeper. i say it again. Its crazy anyone can doubt his worth and says a lot about us as a nation that we tend to focus on one mans mistakes than the countless things he has done right for our club. ..constantine..

Believable4 Unbelievable3

11 Dec 2011 18:23:20
Now i've been thinking about what we need in january and who is available and i've came up with this.

We need a CB, with Vidic out for upto a year and although i don't wanna admit it with that kind of injury at 30yo you can never be sure whether he'll come back the same player. Then you have Ferdinand who you never know when he'll be fit. We have Jones and Smalling but these guys are young and need a more experianced CB along side them to guide them through games and i don't think Evans is that player.

Left Back is an interesting one for although i'll be the first to admit Evra hasn't been upto standard for quite awhile i don't think he's past it just lazy. If you watch him he is more than capable of getting forward with pace time and time again but can't be bothered to track back as he has no competition for his place as Fryers is still to young and Fabio is always injured. If we brought in someone who would be serious competition for his place i think that would be enough to make him pull his socks up and we could get another 2 years out of him, he only turned 30 at the start of the season and has great natural fitness. By that time Fryers would have gained the experiance to take over the position.

A defensive Midfielder is also a position we could do with having someone abit better for but do we need a DM in every game? I don't think so, so why spend alot of money bringing someone in to be needed in only half the games at most.

So having considered all of these things i think i've come up with the solution.....we sign one player who can do all these jobs.

And that player is Jan Vertonghen.
Normally a CB who is captain of Ajax and has playing and leadership experiance could easily step in for the injured Vidic and guide our younger players. His versitilty also means he can fill in several roles once all our defenders are back fit.
He can play as a LB and as such would put pressure on Evra to up his game meaning our whole defensive Unit will have improved.
For Belgium he plays in midfield helping shield the back four and give a base from which to launch attacks. So could easily fulfill that role for us in the few games we require a DM.

So thats one player improving three positions and he wouldn't cost that much between 10-15m at most, and is available in january. For me he is a must buy in january then in summer we can see if we need to still buy a specialist DM or LB.

Let me know what you guys think.

Shappy

Believable19 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 17:15:59
There has been a lot of names thrown around this site over the past couple months, but Toni Kroos from Bayern hasn't been one of them. The kid is only 21 years old, and is decent attacking midfielder. He has 2 goals and 10 assists in 23 starts this year for Bayern. And he wouldn't be expensive. I've watched the kid enough to see that him, Jones, and Cleverly in the middle of the park could be something to be proud of for years to come.

Sparty On

Believable1 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 16:58:31
i think rooney played very well yesterday. I think rooney plays better without henandez partnering him.
Before you disagree, listern to my logic:

1. Without chicha, rooney focuses alot more on trying to score goals. With chicha in the team rooney drops to deep making him less effective. His rarely enters the 18yard area.
Additionally, With chicha playing, rooney tries too often to play a 'killer pass' to him rather than take take the shot himself.
If you dont believe me, watch yesterday's game and the next few games and notice how often he ll enter the 18yard area and how many shots on goal and goals he ll get. Then notice how all that wil change when chicha comes back.
Part of the reason for this is, henandez inability to link up with rooney. Which is why i often ask the question, how does rooney benefit from the parntership?
I would love to see rooney partnered with cavani or higuain or van persie.

Millz

Believable3 Unbelievable3

11 Dec 2011 16:39:42
Does anyone remember when rooney was neck and neck with messi in goals maybe assists too? Around the time he got injured and we lost to bayern. Look messi and ronaldo have a fantastic team around them so imagine what rooney could achieve with a decent creative midfield to supply him. He is trying to do too much. We don't need to move on rooney we need a team behind him who can be depended on to feed him and not just from the wings. In fact How many times has rooney scored or won the game against top opposition MORE so than ronaldo. Its crazy how people can't see his worth to us. Messi Ronaldo Rooney and I stand by that. ..constantine..

Believable5 Unbelievable3

11 Dec 2011 16:31:51
RFT Dark times? Don't be so dramatic. What liverpool have been suffering were dark times. Or portsmouth. Or leeds. We are not there yet. Its almost like you and some others want this club to fail and fall! So you can say glazers bla bla. If you were in any of the businesses I ran talking like you are i'd have you by the ear and kick you out the door fast and that's not to ignore problems but to stop them being dwelt on and magnified. We won a game and the only way we are going to get out of this is by doing that and returning confidence. What we need is those so called average players to believe they can earn the shirt. The problem I have with people like you is you influence people it spreads around the stands around the net and into the players and that is the real danger that will bring down our club. that you seem totally oblivious to that worries me. A win doesn't paper of the cracks but its exactly what we need to get out of this mess. Kurt cobain wrote a song negative creep what a genious the lad was. ..constantine..

Believable3 Unbelievable6

11 Dec 2011 16:17:19
It's alright Spurs winning ten out of eleven games but could they go to Stoke on a wet and cold Sunday afternoon and get a result? We will learn a lot from Spurs today, I still think they will finish 3rd or 4th. Chelsea will also finish 3rd or 4th and Arsenal 5th.

Sydney!

Believable2 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 14:58:51
Anyone who thinks its acceptable if Rooney leaves is well.. mad. If you think we having trouble replacing keane and scholes... For me on form the order is this messi ronaldo rooney in that order. If its disillusionment then of two choices let rooney and try replace him or replace the midfield I know which choice i'd aim for. ..constantine..

Believable1 Unbelievable4

11 Dec 2011 14:55:46
Oh wait a minute I have read the papers today and all our problems are solved today because we beat a very poor Wolves side 4-1. And the English press get exactly what they want Rooney scoring a couple of goals this means everything is perfect and England will win the European championships as they have the best player in the world. They will totally ignore the amount of times he ran into players or his passes went astray. Yes I know that i have never forgiven him for holding the club to ransom and pretending it was about signings when it was just about the dollar! Can anybody who saw the game yesterday not say that the best and most exciting player on the pitch was Matt Jarvis who roasted young Christopher and constantly hit the line and delivered crosses just inviting his attackers to get on the end of. I would love to see him at United but no doubt we would discourage him from going past a defender and get him to do what all our wingers do just stop and pass the ball backwards. it was good to see us score more than one goal but knowing that Johnny Evans is playing is almost like starting a game one down already. If all goes well this weekend and next weekend we will be top of the league and everyone will say what were we worried about and we don't need to sign anyone and the Glazers are doing a good job. Sydney and his friends will attack me for doing everything I can to publicise the damage that these leeches are doing to this club. Even in these dark times there is one bright shining light and his name is Phil Jones once again the boy showed that he was born to wear the red shirt and he gave as he always does 100% of blood sweat and tears. Taxi for Gibson. RAINFISHTROMBONE

Believable4 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 14:10:27
Redman respectfully when I woke first thought in my head was hang on, we do get our monies worth. We get to sit in a fantastic stadium, we get to realistically challenge for five including charity shield trophies each season we get to dream of great players coming to the club and have seen some fantastic football by the great players we have had. Threatening not to renew tickets almost seems a spoilt reaction to me. ..constantine..

Believable1 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 13:44:48
I really am not sure where Rooney's head is at, he's not being as good, not working as hard and doesn't look interested when he scores. I think he wants out, and if someone offers a good deal like Real Madrid with money plus a few players then id definatly take it right now.

Believable6 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 13:37:57
If you compare our midfield to the current Madrid side, who i thought were desperatly unlucky yesterday - you can see really where we are lacking.

The players they have, Alonso, Khedira, Diarra, Ozil, Kaka, Granero (just the central players), and compare them to what we have:

Alonso= Carrick
Diarra= Fletcher
Khedira= Jones (shouldn't be a permanent player in midfield for me)
Ozil=Anderson
Kaka=Cleverly
Granero=Gibson

Now, they aren't exactly ideal comparisons, Cleverly certainly isn't Kaka etc...But its worth a comparison. They have one proper central midfieler in Alonso, that for me would be Cleverley in our set up. He plays alongside a midfielder enforcer which for us is Jones who doesn't have the ball skills for me to run the midfield. So when you look at it like that, we need a midfield enforcer. So for starters thats where Rodwell, or Sandro come in. Sandro would be the better buy purely because he is better on the ball that Rodwell is. And as a general utility player Benatia should come in, he can play as a center back, right back or defensive midfielder.

They also have Kaka and Ozil, in their ranks, and to be honest, we don't have anyone in that mould. Anderson could be similar, but right now he's not that player. Ozil and Kaka run riot often, swapping with Ronaldo, Di Maria etc. We could very well do that, Nani, Young and Rooney could all swap with eachother. Similar to City with David Silva, and with Messi for Barca.

For that role we can stick with Rooney, for sure. But i think that would require a new striker. A Cavani, or a Llorente to be signed. It would come at a cost, but Cavani can compete with any defence and will always put the ball in the back of the net.

Lastly a new right back for me is a greater priority than a left back. Van der Wiel is the obvious choice, he's not a bad player. Good going forward and can defend as well.

I'd like to see this, keeping it in a 4-4-2 formation:

---------------------De Gea--------------------

V. d. Wiel-------Ferdinand-------Vidic-------Evra

Nani----------Sando----------Cleverly-----Young


-------------Rooney-----------Cavani------------

How does that sound for people?

RedDevil19

Believable1 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 13:31:51
agree with moston red, I being older can go back a little further, for instance a 7-2 home defeat by sheffield wednesday in the FA cup, however I feel that SAF is now fed up of players who he trusted now letting him down, does anybody know where we could find another Eric? Cheetham Red

Believable0 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 13:28:59
I know we need to sign players but some of the names floating around are awful. Kaka is past it. Awful injury record. And he'd last about two games in this league. Its too fast for him. How long would he last against stoke? Pato is one of the most over rated players around. He hardly stands out at milan and again he'd struggle in this league. Cahill has had an awful season so far. He isn't any better than smalling or jones or even dare i say it evans. Sandro and rodwell are good shouts.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 13:09:32
ED002 i think united could do with signing bale and modric for spurs asap and could also do with a cheeky bid for gotze and parker this should certainly shore up our shallow midfield
plus whoever thinks macheda if prem quality needs shooting he is 1 poor footballer

Believable0 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 13:01:29
Great Win but not getting over excited by it. Evans is woeful. Wolves were thru within 25 seconds and it was all due to him being out of position. Rooney's body language spoke volumes on the pitch. Don't blame the kid, promises of good investment hasn't happened in the 2 transfer windows since he questioned it.

Some great craic in the Stretford End yesterday. All singing 'Thursday Night Channel 5' after each goal. Love owt like that me.

Just saw the highlights of El Classico, Messi's run thru midfield for Sanchez goal, sublime. On another planet that guy.

I am not Manchester United's best fan and would never claim to be. But always remember this. After the couple of months we have had, we don't always support our club because they win. I remember 3-5 against West Brom in the 70's, probably the best game I have seen at Old Trafford. I remember United being tore apart by players like Robert Fleck, Gary Parker etc.

If you think this is a crisis, you obviously haven't ever been in one

Mike the Moston Red

Believable4 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 12:58:46
do you think this is rooneys last season at utd , cleary his work-rate has dropped , he can see your squad is way behind city and the top spanish teams , is it time to let him move , as its not good for team moral having a strop around the place , what do you utd fans think............lfc

Believable5 Unbelievable6

11 Dec 2011 12:51:33
Hi Guys
I think what I'm about to say is going to be a tad controversial and I expect most people to say I'm mad but hear me out first.
99% of us all say we want a creative mid-fielder and we are not going to get a Sneider or Goetze in January.So what about a loan bid for David Beckham.It will give us time to plan our strategy for the summer window.Becks is United through and through and would probably play for nothing.His experience and class would also bring the likes of Pogba on no end.
As I said I don't expect many to agree but I for one would love to see Becks back in a Red shirt.

Bazza The red

Believable3 Unbelievable4

11 Dec 2011 11:52:29
I think Kaka wouldn't be a bad shout on loan, hopefully that could happen. But it was interesting today to see the story about Milan allowing Pato to leave if they sign Tevez. Would Chelsea be the only interested club? I doubt it, I think he could really add something to our side and I think after probably regretting not moving for Aguero then we could move for him - especially if he's allowed to leave.

Also interestingly the Sandro rumour, he is on the fringe at Spurs and based on his performances last season he would be good enough for us. I'd go for him or Rodwell for that midfield enforcer role, Sandro would probably get the nod but i'd be happy with either. No more than 20 million would have to be shelled out to get one of them, and with Redknapp and Moyes wanting reinforcements then a tranfer fee like that would be too good to turn down. Signing Rodwell though could be like getting two players in one as he started life as a center back, but with Sandro being better on the ball then i'd take him.

If we were to sign those players we could see a team like this:

De Gea

Jones, Smalling, Vidic, Evra

Nani, Sandro, Cleverly, Young

Rooney, Pato.

That to me looks like quite an attractive footballing team. Obviously if Pato came in it would be the end for Berbatov, Owen and Macheda - which it should be anyway to be honest.

RedDevil19

Believable1 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 11:40:27
With Vidic out for a long time, the defence to me still looks at little weak. Would it not be a good idea to go for Gary Cahill? He is out of contract in the Summer and we could get him on the cheap. Also he could play in the Europa League. He would be a fantastic addition for the future and a long term replacement for Rio and Vidic {Ed004's Note - Smalling and Jones are the long term replacements.}

Believable0 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 11:14:11
3 players we could potentially sign for our troublesome midfield:
Sandro - not exactly been a regular this year at spurs and in my view is quality
Kagawa - industrious, creative, and would make loads via shirt sales
Rodwell - having a good season for the toffees and is becoming a really good player.

What do you think Ed?

Phs93 {Ed004's Note - I think Rodwell is the most likely and I don't rate Kagawa very highly}

Believable0 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 10:35:31
So what's going to happen in January ? Personally, I'd like to see a Henrik Larsson type signing , world class player bringing some much needed flair back to the squad. Quite a few options available, Kaka and dare I say Mr Beckham being two of these. With us being out of the Champions League and the money lost as a result, I can't see there being a vast amount of money being spent, so loan signings might be the alternative

Believable2 Unbelievable4

11 Dec 2011 10:34:18
Considering that Real lost to Barca 3-1 with all those players in the squad and in such a fine form, I guess we did a pretty decent job in last CL final with players not even half as good as Real players. {Ed004's Note - I watched the game and I just can't help but thinking if Ronaldo had scored that header to draw it, Real would have gone on to win. As the commentator said, It was a tail of two headers. However he played awfully last night, worst I have seen him play in ages. He seemed to have lost confidence as the game went on.}

Believable2 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 10:26:46
With Fryers being given more chances in the 1st team and Fabio doing the job when he is fit, does anybody see us signing a LB in near future? {Ed004's Note - Yes.}

Believable0 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 09:37:13
I have a question, i am unaware of UEFA rules.So can someone please clear my doubts.

The early exit of Manchester United in champions league this season, so if we finish top 3 in Premier league can we automatically get entry next year in UEFA Champions league, or are we going to play for UEFA Cup.
If we do play for UEFA Cup that means even city will play for the cup, so eventually the team finishing 5th and 6th will get chance to play champions league.

I m confused, Ed can u clear this please.
Thanks.

United Fan (ceaser) {Ed002's Note - I don't really understand what you are talking about, but in simple terms the top four teams enter the Champions League and the fith goes in to the Europa comp[etion with the FA Cup and League Cup winners.}

Believable0 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 03:09:20
Chuck Amos in goal and tell me, is there any other EPL club that can match that team of English players with their English players? I doubt it very much.

Sydney!


johnson kelly carragher robinson

henderson coady spearing downing

gerrard
andy carroll

shelvey could replace either spearing or coady. you may have the best midfielder and striker (for now) but other than that pretty even stevens.

p.s youd have to play agaisnt ten though unfortunately we aint got english keeper lol

Believable2 Unbelievable4

11 Dec 2011 09:11:31
After last nights good display sir alex will not dip in the transfer market in january
why cant we win narrowly 1-0 till jan

Believable1 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 08:02:16
I noticed a couple of things from my seat in the East Stand yesterday. First off, I witnessed a superb performance from a 19yr old lad that bodes well for the future, Jones was fantastic, all over the park, a real class act.
Secondly, after Nani opened the scoring all of the outfield players rushed over to him, well all except one Wayne Rooney who showed no emotion and just walked back to the halfway line ignoring the celebrations. This sparked a debate around me about Rooney's attitude and I was surprised by the amount of people who think he is off to pastures new, a la Ronaldo. I openly admit that I will never forgive his outburst last season and my rose tinted glasses on Rooney have long gone, but his actions yesterday were pretty poor from a so-called world class player.
I have said several times about how unhappy and frustrated he looks, well yesterday told me all I need to know about his team spirit.

Keanooh

Believable7 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 05:36:00
A good reply from us! I really like the look of Fryers..he is quick and quite able in defense. A little bit of guidance and experience could see him become a very good left back or am I being too optimistic. I would really love to see Jones and Cleverley playing together in the middle.

INDIAN RED DEVIL

Believable1 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 02:26:48
"He was fantastic again," added Ferguson. "I though he played his best game of the season on Wednesday [against Basel].

This was from SAF's mouth about Rio.

Now my expectations may well exceed others but how can anybody on this planet say that a Manchester United player had their best game v Basel for the season so far is more than beyond me!

Jono

Believable0 Unbelievable2

11 Dec 2011 01:58:13
I as well as Redman were taking place in the stands today and my god what a diffference in aplication from almost everybody.

Rooney put the ball in the net for a change but still at times looked whayward, Evra actually did allot better defensively than normal, Nani alhough scoring 2 still needs to up his all round game imo and above all......Toni was back to his best!

He went back to 1 touch past a player and cross and it ended with 2 assists. Well done.

I also agree with redman when he says lets not paper over the cracks. We still lack the obvious CM players, creatively especially but this is a good win.

In all honestly it was only wolves. we can only keep pace with City winning against the likes of these but we still need that added extra in CM especially to take the points from the teams that matter.

Well done today boys.

Jono

Believable2 Unbelievable0

11 Dec 2011 00:25:26
totally random but wats up with bebe, is he still injured? and at besiktas? do use guys think he has potential? is he gna be sold? etc.

Bebe's brother

Believable0 Unbelievable1

11 Dec 2011 00:18:02
Hey lads,
I don't know too much about Alba, and I was playing FIFA (yes i know) yesterday and noticed that he is listed as a left sided midfielder. I haven't really gotten the opportunity to watch him yet. Is he a left sided player that has both qualities in attacking and defending?

And my second question is, is he a realistic target over the next two windows. I see his name mentioned on here a lot as a possible replacement for Evra. I know no one really knows what goes on in SAF's head and the real transfer targets, but there are realistic targets, just wondering about the kid.

Cheers,
Sparty On

Believable0 Unbelievable1

10 Dec 2011 23:59:40
appreciate the reply Redman and the tone. Been a long day. Whine was a little tactless. Its hard to argue with your point. We pay money we want to see the investment. Everything has been said before: We are not the only powerhouse.. genuine quality out there they are few. So lets skip that. We've had ronaldo Rooney Rvp Vidic for our money so its not like we haven't seen the quality. I'm as gutted as everyone else we didn't fit the obvious hole. But think of this. It doesn't make sense that Alex is laughing at us all. we've known him since aberdeen does anyone truly believe his drive is anything other than bringing out great football? Remember the final where he wasn't happy with the manner of the win? This was aberdeen and a fantastic achievement and he's not happy! I'm scottish and the old school of us are prideful for sure, arrogant also to a degree but on the whole we are honourable not decieving. That he and the club aren't doing everything they possible can to find the right people for the right price and that are willing just doesn't make sense to me. Whatever is/ was the deciding factor who knows. I just don't think we getting a lucky break here. But I don't believe for one minute the effort isn't there. It just doesn't make sense. My instincts are this man wants the legacy to end with one last great team. Whether it materialises or not is one thing. But the effort will be there for sure. And for the football i've been lucky enough to witness under Sir Alex not saying he don't make mistakes but i'm willing to give trust to the effort being genuine and stay patient. That's where i'm coming from ..constantine..

Believable2 Unbelievable1