Manchester United Banter Archive October 11 2018

11 Oct 2018 13:17:03
Saying that the fans are to blame for United's parlous state is like saying that the imminent bankruptcy of one of the US's iconic businesses, Sears, is the fault of the customers. Sorry, that's not the way things work. The customers left because the company itself failed to keep up with the trends. Our club was held hostage for so long to excessive debt service that necessary re-investment was not made when it was required and we have been overcompensating for the last 5 years. In footballing terms we failed to keep up. Everyone could see the deficiencies both in our transfer policy and youth development program when players like Tom Cleverley were expected to replace the likes of Paul Scholes. It was masked by SAF's continuing magic in domestic competitions. 

I've been a supporter for 55 years. We have had some good teams and some not so good ones. We have had a couple of great managers. At United we go to extremes. Fortunately having been well funded even our worst periods are not that bad. It goes in cycles. For me I'd rather we win but I'm actually somewhat amused by the current spectacle. I have no doubt some toxic fans and the press have an influence on Board decisions, more so now that the whole value of the club is as a brand rather than a team, but the buck stops with those who run the club and nowhere else. What we are going through is a catharsis. We will come out of it a better club but my guess is we haven't yet seen the end of the carnage.

11 Oct 2018 16:21:59
Shaw,

The good news is that like ED002 says the club is looking to get a director of football in and change the structure of how things work, that says to me that they know things are not working in their current structure and it is likely we will see a marked improvement from that time.

11 Oct 2018 16:22:43
Good post.
Ed002 has put things into perspective for me.
As a fan we've been used to being at the top etc.
Until Abramovich came along, others teams couldn't match us financially.
Man City were bought out hy the Sheiks.

Its how the club has been run behind the scenes etc.
A poor academy, no DOF.
Perhaps Fergie had to much control which didn't help when he retired as the staff were left unsure of who did who.

We need to stick with Mourinho.
Mourinho also needs to show faith and like the 2nd half against Newcastle, go out and attack. After all, attack is the best form of defence.

Lets be United and get behind the players.

It can be difficult at times, but this maybe for the best.

If we sort out how the club is run which should have been sorted oht along time ago. It should enable the club to progress.

11 Oct 2018 18:41:02
Shawthing

Ed002 said Toxic fans affected and influenced the decision making of the club. Think on that, it says the owners, the board could not take a stand for what they had planned in terms of a transition from LvG to Allegri, instead they bowed to what in effect was noise. The toxic fans may be difficult and have pushed them, but they did not have the leadership to stand up for their own plans. The owners have never communicated a strategy or plan and Ed’s information indicates they couldn’t do what leaders do, know what direction they want to go and take people on a journey with them. It’s one reason but by no means the whole picture. Social media nowadays is pernicious, you only have to read these pages and other social media, the club has shown it is sensitive to social media by using the 600 million followers in proposals.

Toxic fans have had an impact but the question is why the board allowed that.

11 Oct 2018 18:51:13
I find it mildly amusing that our huge number of toxic fans couldn't influence the Glazers into selling our Club despite some pretty horrific behaviour including threats of violence, mass protests, insulting banners and intimidating chants. Despite this abhorrent behaviour our intrepid owners remained steadfast and resolute. Apparently sacking managers on the other hand is far simpler. Merely stamp your feet and shake your head in a child like manner and write some disparaging remarks on Social Media and our fearless owners will quickly lose their resolve, abandon their plans and bow to our every demand. Who knew manipulation of our board was so simple?! In fact if the toxics could please force the board into buying two new CB's, RB, LB, CM, RW and CF our current manager would be eternally grateful. On the other hand if the toxics don't like our current manager you know what to do. Easy peasy he'll be gone before the end of the International break. Choose wisely dear toxics for the path to enlightenment is rarely as simple as it seems. With great power comes great responsibility so be warned for it is not the board, the players or the manager but the fans fault for every single failure since the great one departed.

11 Oct 2018 19:39:32
Excellent post, DLIB.

11 Oct 2018 20:36:52
Who says Allegri was the answer? That might have been the plan but it doesn’t mean it would have worked. I’m almost reassured that there was a plan as it often seems Woodward makes it up as he goes along, signing Sanchez for example was a knee jerk reaction. Letting SAF influence the choice of Moyes was bizarre, the appointment of Moyes went against all sensible rational thought, I wonder if he was a deliberate fall guy. Then appointing LVG almost felt like a reaction to that one great Holland game.

Mourinho is not for me but he has been getting some dreadful stick lately, it seems to be open season with everyone piling in a bit like a pack of bullies taking encouragement from the rest, egging each other on.

We lack leadership and expertise on the football side of things. We can change the Manager as often as we want but if we don’t address those things then it won’t get any better.

12 Oct 2018 07:27:12
Fantastic post DLIB. Really does make you wonder about the so called toxics.

12 Oct 2018 08:37:43
Some great summaries of wider context and link to toxics which, when taken with Ed002’s comments below, really make sense. Cheers.

11 Oct 2018 07:56:45
Ed 002,

Just a quick question.

In one of the posts you've spoken about how the Man United board is not looking at letting Mou go and are trying to get a DOF in place (I'm guessing this has been happening for a while) . This would imply that they are looking to get someone who can work with Mou and the future manager (whenever that happens) . In the same post, you've also mentioned how the toxics (both fans and the press) might force them to make an untimely decision. My question is, is the board so susceptible that they will get influenced by the press? I mean, I'm sure they know that whatever the press is writing is mostly untrue or woven for impact?

{Ed002's Note - Assuming a Mou is Mr Mourtinho, the club did agree the names of two potential Directors of Football with him. Yes the press and the toxics can influence the board - the toxics are entirely responsible for where the club are now.}

11 Oct 2018 10:51:20
I guess the problem started when the LVG plans were disheveled because of the fans. Guess that's what we call hitting your own feet with an axe. Just out of curiosity who are these two people, and if you rather not tell the names, what is your opinion on the shortlisted people (if at all, they are shortlisted)

Thanks, again.

{Ed002's Note - The toxics are large numbers of very vocal "supporters". What shortlist are you referring to?}

11 Oct 2018 11:43:30
So this means these bunch of 'supporters' are somewhat influential? Sorry, by shortlist, I meant the names of two Director of Football that been agreed with Mr. Mourinho. Are those the right people for the job?

{Ed002's Note - THis has all been explained - try searching.}

11 Oct 2018 11:59:29
The 'toxic' fans didn't necessitate hiring Mourinho though did they. It's not like we couldn't have got a manager in on a one year deal to keep the plan in place. We're in the situation we're in because someone high up thought Mourinho was right for United.

{Ed002's Note - The toxics are entirely responsible for everything that happens and they deserve every failing moment that has happened since.}

11 Oct 2018 12:15:08
Of course Mr Mourinho himself is not remotely toxic.

{Ed002's Note - No, he is one of the most successful managers in world football at the moment having to deal with a club that does not provide him with their full support and a fan base that includes vast numbers ogf vegetables with little or no knowledge of the game.}

11 Oct 2018 12:16:06
Toxic fans forced the club to make a decision. The club made a bad decision in hiring Mourinho (for which they are responsible) and the rest of us regular fans are left with this mess we are in now.

{Ed002's Note - You miss the point - the club had good well founded plans that the toxics destroyed.}

11 Oct 2018 12:46:24
Certain fans messed up the clubs plans regarding LVG’s 3 year stay, Max Allegri was the plan thereafter all the way up until 2022 I believe, that plan has long since gone now, so Jose Mourinho was hired and now it seems the same fans are messing up things again. That coupled with the club not adapting to Jose, a media campaign against him in the papers is why we are in a mess, I am sure other issues too. The support of the fans and the support from the club to its manager is what makes for a stable and successful club. We are neither stable or successful atm due to lack of support towards our managers. We’ve no god given right to be on top, that is earned, as it has been for many years under Fergie, we earned the right to be on top then, atm we are making the club abandon plan after plan because we want instant success. Take a look over the road at City, they planned very well and are now reaping the rewards. I’m not asking people to like Jose Mourinho but see the bigger picture or we will continue to be in a constant state of instability. I’ve had my moments post game where I’ve ‘had enough’ it’s an emotional game but we must learn from our mistakes.

11 Oct 2018 13:12:53
How do you decipher between a regular fan and a toxic fan?

{Ed002's Note - The dribble quantity.}

11 Oct 2018 13:19:50
Very good post wrd and ed002.
Sure its not perfect but it would be a lot better if the club had backed jose.
We need to clear out some players with a view to reinvesting in players that will do better for club and manager.
The irony is that imo no other manager would have got this squad to 2nd last season and if any other manager comes in the squad still needs major investment. No manager is going to turn young valencia jones rojo smalling herrera etc etc into title winners.
Jose told us at the vegining of the season that it would be a tough season with this squad and he is right.

11 Oct 2018 13:53:41
Up until Saturday, I never bought into the "toxic fan" statements due to simply not seeing it: however the venomous content and manner of what so called fans directed at certain players in the warm up, brought the statement home. If the fans or a portion of them cannot even support the players without verbal abuse then what chance have we got of moving forward. And before the dudley dorightss start with the its banter blah blah, it certainly knocks confidence before a competitive ball is kicked.

12 Oct 2018 10:11:34
at the end of the day the guy is not up to managing United, get him sacked.

12 Oct 2018 10:13:38
What did they expect? Sell your customers a product that's nor fit for purpose and they will complain.

Utd are lucky trading standards haven't been involved.

10 Oct 2018 23:54:15
Ed002 can I please ask you if the story the mirror ran on Jose being sacked came from a legitimate source within the club.
Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - I have no idea where they get their stories from about Mr Mourinho being sacked last Saturday and replaced by Zizou from. You should ask them.}

11 Oct 2018 11:58:27
Thanks ed002 you seem one of if not the most knowledgeable here and not just opinionated and there seems to be a lot of opinions being dressed up as knowledge at times which can be misleading.
Thanks again.