Manchester United Banter Archive April 12 2019

 

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12 Apr 2019 15:11:31
I just wanted to say how impressed I've been with Scott McTominay over the last 6 weeks or so.

I admit that I was super sceltical about him under Jose and felt he was being used as a stick to hit Pogba and the board with but.

Over the last few weeks I can really see a Man Utd player in him.

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12 Apr 2019 15:44:31
It's not all about pogba.

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12 Apr 2019 16:11:04
He’s been brilliant. I am pleased to be proven wrong on this one because I honestly thought he was so average. Should be a starter along with Fred for the rest of the season.

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12 Apr 2019 17:04:14
He seems to be developing that 7 out of 10, 100% effort, seems professional off the pitch and working to absolutely get every last bit potential out of himself.

Also he seems to have a mad RPG ability of being a multiplier for other players (makes others look better) just like Carrick.

Love to see Garner and McTominay in the middle one day.

Reminds me of the characteristics of the past players like Butt, Nevilles, O'Shea, Fletcher, Wes Brown etc - players that cost nothing live and breathe the badge.

I would take these guys everyday rather than wasting money on Schnederlin, Blind (although I liked him), Rojo etc

I wish Pogba had some of this mentality and really hope we can find a way to switch him out for Saul.

To me the future shout be youth palyers supplemented by the best of the EPL and couple of Elite level European players.

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12 Apr 2019 17:13:02
Good post utd road.

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12 Apr 2019 17:16:38
Well said guys and it just shows you don't need to be th3 most skilled but you need to be hard working and have a good attitude to succeed.

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12 Apr 2019 17:25:44
I must say that i was of the opinion that he was just selected by Jose because he is 6'4", He has proved me wrong, if we would have seen any other player giving such performances at other clubs we would have said we should sign him for 50 Mil.

Apart from this anyone else thinks Greenwood should be played at RW for some part of the game?

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12 Apr 2019 18:41:19
Darren Fletcher 2.0

Hard working midfielder that is under-rated in terms of ability.

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12 Apr 2019 19:17:02
Carrick is more underrated though.

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12 Apr 2019 20:40:43
EZRS is carrick as underrated as pogba is overrated.

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13 Apr 2019 00:48:48
The Fletcher comparison is fitting. I remember shouting at Fletcher a lot in his first few years as he was growing into the position. Then he proved me wrong when he came into his prime, with his huge engine to make tackles all over the pitch. He was relentless. I recall Arsene Wenger complaining about his physicality.

McTominay is similar. Hard working center mid who looked shaky on the ball but committed defensively. But over time, look how he as proven many of us wrong. The lesson for many of us, myself included, is to show a little more patience with our players. If they have talent and a good attitude, they deserve our full support, and in time we will see what they can do.

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13 Apr 2019 11:53:27
zidaniel, I don't think he is so shaky with the ball. He has a lovely first touch and his passing is decent. I don't recall him giving the ball away very much and I think as his confidence is growing he is becoming more ambitious with his passing. It also seems that the last couple of games he has been playing a bit further forward but that's possibly because the whole team has.

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12 Apr 2019 11:43:31
I know not every one will agree and that's fair enough but i really think sometimes Pogba gets judged unfairly on here when other players in the squad are allowed to get away with so much more. Against Barcelona Ole played a negative set up with Dalot playing out of position and substitutions that didn't work. Young who was utterly useless Rashford and Lukaku who did nothing all game with horrible movement through out the game yet people are still find time to criticize Pogba. Fred and Mctominay were there to defend and they did it efficiently but that means the whole attack is reliant on one player in Pogba and with Rashford and Lukaku ahead of him making no runs creating no space yet the blame for a lot of people is always at Pogbas feet. People love Rashford so don't criticize him but he has been poor since the liverpool game for me. also the manager is getting away with playing players out of position and essentially parking it at home. I am a Ole supporter but i am a Utd fan first i think a lot of people let the romance of Ole or the love for Rashford or in some cases the hate for pogba blind their judgement.

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12 Apr 2019 12:16:09
It wasn’t just Wednesday though was it, Pogba turns up when he wants to and not often enough. If you look at him since he arrived he has been average. He had a great spell post Ole appointment but has drifted off again. Add to that his apparent desire to leave I’m going to judge him how I want. Right now, over priced, over rated, and not committed to the cause.

I love Rashford but am happy to criticise him, he’s been off the pace since he was injured and made a lot of wrong decisions on Wednesday. However, he’s still a kid, not a £90M marketing machine who is supposedly one of the best players in the world, a player who has rarely ever taken hold of a game.

As for Ole, how did he park the bus? We played a high press up the field and created far more chances than Barca, we just couldn’t get any of them on target. Parking the bus is having everyone behind the ball looking to sneak a goal and that’s not what happened.

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12 Apr 2019 12:23:21
Yeah I agree Pogba does get held to a standard that's disproportionate to others. I think the reason he gets it on here is the eds have told us he wants out. It was the same with Martial last summer.

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12 Apr 2019 12:36:53
Pogba is a very strange player, he is a conundrum of a footballer who contradicts his own ability at times. He looks like someone who if you surrounded him with the greatest players on the planet he can stand out and look even better than those players at times, but at the same time, in this squad where he is far and away the most talented player he can look like the worst player on the pitch.

He has so much ability to decide a game on his own but is a luxury player who despite his incredible technical and physical ability (pretty much everything you'd want in a player that can win a game on his own) he very rarely decides a game on his own.

Yes he is not surrounded by the best United squad of all time but throughout Europe there are players with half of Pogba's talent who produce twice as often as he does.

Not all of this is his fault and I agree he gets more than his fair share of stick as plenty of other players have not lived up to expectations over the past few years and we haven't always had a particularly fluid style of play in his time here which has hindered him somewhat. Mainly though, I think the stick he gets is a symptom disappointment as Pogba seems to play to the level of the team he is in rather than be the reason that the team he is in is that bit better with his presence. If he goes to Real Madrid, Barcelona or Juve and is surrounded by stars dominating games he will look incredible and people will think we have made a mistake in selling him but I doubt he will ever look brilliant consistently in a squad where he is the best player, he needs others around him of a similar or even higher level to be at his best.

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12 Apr 2019 12:40:06
AJH we played both fred mctominay who are predominantly defensive along with a rb at rw and a rw and rb and you think because we pressed its not a defensive set up? We were clearly more concerned with not losing rather than going and winning.

Pogba has more assists and and goals combined then the everyone else in our team so if he's the one that we should get rid of what about the rest! Also it is not Pogbas fault we overpaid for him we also over paid for Martial and Lukaku but no you choose to dig out Pogba as do others.

Look at the dross around him and his own so called fans against him digging him out at every opportunity i don't blame him if he wants to go and win something because our board consistently acts gives no indication that he's playing for one of the biggest clubs in world looking to get to the next level.

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12 Apr 2019 13:55:40
Mnk397,

We largely for the majority of the game nullified Barcelona. That was part of OGS tactics.
We stopped Barcelona playing their tikka taka football.

Ask yourself this, how many teams have managed to do that.

Is Shaw had marked Suarez at the far post, chances are that goal wouldn't have happened.

Rashford has just come back from being injured, Youngs crossing was again diabolical.

McTominay and Fred worked very hard. Mctominay played like a Utd Captain. He led my example on the pitch. His post match interview showed how passionate he is.

The final third, we weren't great, but we played well, stopped Barcelona. Messi was rather anonymous for the majority of the game.

Look for all the negatives but remember that. This is a team with a new manager and tactics. A team that isn't used to doing a lot of running.

Next season, hopefully we some quality additions, we will see are far more entertaining Utd side.

I remember Fergies final 2 seasons I charge. The football played then wasnt great either.

We beat PSG against all the odds, have we over achieved or were PSG far too arrogant?

Get behind the team.

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12 Apr 2019 14:18:47
Pogba was bought in as a top player, top transfer fee, on top wages, one of the world's highest fees. But he doesn't show it on the field, he should be bossing the midfield but he doesn't.

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12 Apr 2019 15:02:21
Scott was MOTM, he did all the dirty work so PP didn't have to, and referring to our players as dross, classy.

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12 Apr 2019 16:29:19
I just think maybe pogba isn't as good as we would hope/ thought.

There are countless players who on their day are unplayable, world class, but it's the solid 7 out of 10 Dennis Irwin types I admire.

I have no agenda against pogba, he sometimes engages in things that are away from my generation thus causing him to wrankle me but that's it.

If he stayed for the next 8 years, brilliant.

If he left tomorrow, meh .

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12 Apr 2019 16:53:45
Deano. Its a pretty damming indictment that you don't care if he stays or goes.
I feel the same but herrera mata jones young martial i have no affinity with any of them. Never up in arms if there out of the team and never excited when they are.

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12 Apr 2019 17:13:06
I feel like Pogba struggles or doesn't care for the basics eg tracking runners, marking space/ passing lanes, playing the simple ball. Which can be fine if you win games on your own on a regular basis.

I also think as an athletic flamboyant black man he is judged to a different standard than if he was a white Brazilian. I don't mean to kick off a race discussion here but I think their is a bit of unconscious bias here (myself included)

All in all I will support him as long as he is in a Utd shirt but I would love to see him do the basics at an elite level like the very best do and still have the moments of genius.

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12 Apr 2019 17:51:41
mnk397, what do you expect Ole to do? We had a couple of players returning back from injuries and a couple of inexperienced lads to choose from to play against Barca.

"We were clearly more concerned with not losing rather than going and winning. " - I have never seen any team pressing high up the pitch in a defensive setup and going as deep as into the opposition half, so that they don't lose the game - that's so weird.

With regards to Pogba, he has all the talent in the world and yet so wasted with his lack of desire/ application on the pitch. In his years at the club, except for a few matches he has never really stood out - yes, you can blame the management, the manager, the fans and the players around him, but if you want to be regarded the best in the world, you need to showcase your talents/ skills on the pitch consistently and standout from the crowd. Look at players like Ronaldo, Messi, DeGea - they are World class because they have the ability to win games on their own and they do it consistently - even if the team is not playing well.

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13 Apr 2019 00:36:32
I am actually a fan of Pogba because of his incredible talent, big personality, and ability to win a game. But he deserves the criticism he gets because his effort is so inconsistent. He has the personality of a leader (in a social sense) but not the character of a leader, since he does not drive the team forward by his example or lead the effort defensively.

Our love for Rashford is the combination of how exciting he is as a player along with his excellent attitude. How always gives 100%. And even when he does not play his best, like the Barcelona game, he still made a lot happen and impacted the game, unlike Lukaku, who was either invisible or killed the attack the second he got on the ball.

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13 Apr 2019 01:58:18
Would anyone says pogba good player could be great but the way he conducts himself and acts will never reach them heights similar to Balotelli who could of been a great player himself but maybe put his image first all joking about and stuff a no times changed but if all the old players like keane and Giggs and all them was in these days I think personally they would be the same just on what sort of characters they was.

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13 Apr 2019 10:19:13
Maybe you're right Ken, I just don't buy he is good as a lot think .

Flashes of unrivalled brilliance, followed by bored indifference.

I've seen much, much better players than mr pogba leave and have gotten over it.

As ed02 always says "footballers are transient employees" and I am behind that 100% .

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13 Apr 2019 12:04:04
Bang on Deano. I never get the hero worship the command.
Players come and go. There are only a handful of united players over the last 45 years I've been watching that i would bother to cross the road to shake their hand if they were walking along alone.
They are just blokes like you and me lucky enough to have what i would consider to be the best job in the world. i'd say over 90% of then couldn't give a toss Abbott the likes of you or me.
They will kids 1 badge 1 min and another the next.
Nothing wrong with that by the way its a job to them that's all.
While they play for us i want them all to do well but i know as soon as one goes ill be cheering the next guy.

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12 Apr 2019 11:31:53
I think we saw glimpses of the high pressing game ole is trying to implement at united. We just simply don’t have the players with the right ability or attitude to play it effectively. Does anybody feel we will move to a back 3 next season?

It seems that we are interested in at least 1, maybe 2 cbs. This would allow us to play Dalot/ new signing as rwb and then shaw lwb. A new signing with Fred/ mctominay and pogba if he decides to say. At this stage I’m not fussed if he leaves or not. This allows us to play 2 up top which suits our squad much more. I think martial and rashford are both far better centrally, but they both are not ready to lead the line and be a 20+ goal scorer in the league for me.

Alternatively, we will go to a back 4 with a new cb, rb, cm, rw and I would be pleased with that. We must address these 4 glaring holes in our team with real quality if we are to progress and challenge for the top honours. I think there is cause for optimism. However, ole must be backed and Woodward must back him in the market.

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12 Apr 2019 11:49:32
Park, I agree with most of that but we also need to start promoting more youngsters. Rashford got his chance due to injuries, and McT got his chance because Jose was trying to make a point, and look how well the 2 of them have done.

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12 Apr 2019 12:15:24
I think the ones most likely to make it currently are tuanzebe, garner, greenwood, Chong and gomes but some of them need loans and regular game time more than making the travelling squad and missing out on the bench.

Park makes a good point and I'd like to see that tactical flexibility going forwards. Keep teams guessing. However it all comes down to incomings and outgoings.

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12 Apr 2019 12:37:34
Disagree with you there Mort. Honestly don’t see Chong or Gomes making it at the top level but the others yes. For me though the best of the lot is Ethan Laird.

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12 Apr 2019 13:04:34
Tony you make a fair point. I would like to see Tuanzebe play next year. He’s an absolute rock at the back and villa are flying with him back in the side. They are making a real push for promotion and he is a huge part of it. A back 3 of him lindelof and a new signing would be tasty. Yes we need to promote youth, but there is a need for some serious quality too. And I feel the youngsters are not ready yet to start as with youth comes inconsistency (Greenwood, Gomes, Chong etc) . But they should be part of the squad.

Mort I agree I feel we’ve been figured out a bit under ole. Teams know we want to play that ball down the channel. Or they Mark pogba our the game. We lack wingers in our squad. True wide men who hug the touchline and give us width. Also someone that can cross. We invest in a few of them and we have the ability in the squad to change from 3 and 4 at the back, depending on opposition.

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12 Apr 2019 15:44:05
We haven't seen enough of Chong or Gomes to judge.

The problem is everything goes through Pogba. Shut him down we don't have anything. Dalot can cross, Shaw needs to work on his. We lack a winger. Everyone's better centrally. A three at the back system with Shaw and dalot out wide with magic or Scott covering and pogba and another attack minded player means the other team can't focus on just pogba. Go with rashford and one other up top.

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13 Apr 2019 00:40:30
Park, your ideas on the three back system are good. Dalot is ideal as a wing back. Shaw, to me, is still somewhat limited going forward, not two-footed enough. But I think he has shown flashes going forward, and can grow as an attacker if given the green light more often.

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12 Apr 2019 11:13:46
Koulibaly didn't look anything special last night. Is he usually better than that?

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12 Apr 2019 11:21:44
We need to check with an Arsenal fan.

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12 Apr 2019 11:26:34
Last night was a poor showing from him. I’ve watched him many times over the past 2 seasons and he’s the real deal. Last night isn’t a fair reflection of his ability. Napoli were poor as a whole last night and credit to arsenal they were very good. I still think he would be a fantastic addition and would compliment lindelof very well. However the £100m price tag is obscene. You can buy two very good players for that amount. We need to invest smartly.

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12 Apr 2019 11:54:53
Yea 100 mill is obscene. We wouldn’t be far off Alderweireld Wan Bissaka andRice for a bit more which would easily be covered by the sale of Bailey or Rojo
Then again, they’re my targets, not necessarily Oles and more importantly, Woodwards.

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{Ed001's Note - you really have no idea about prices if you think you could get Wan-Bissaka and Rice for under 100m!}

12 Apr 2019 12:17:02
Ed1 you mean west ham wouldn't accept 40 and a free pick of rojo, bailly, Darmian or jones? Shame that.

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{Ed001's Note - I know, hard to believe isn't it? I mean how selfish of West Ham to not give up their best young player in return for one of your cast-offs that they don't want or need! The ingratitude of these London clubs is astonishing.}

12 Apr 2019 13:26:10
Ed01 - if they were to be sold, how much do you feel each would go for?

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{Ed001's Note - I really do not want to get into fantasy football prices mate.}

12 Apr 2019 14:33:07
Bout a hundred mill for the 2 sounds right. 60 for rice, 40 for wan bissaka no?

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12 Apr 2019 15:52:42
try 80 for rice and 65 for wan bissaka at least.

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12 Apr 2019 15:59:41
What has Rice done to be worth £60 million? He looks a good prospect and has just been picked for England. McTominay is a regular for Scotland and has played a few United games now, would he go for £60 million. Football is rubbish with its over inflated prices and wages.

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12 Apr 2019 16:10:50
Mctom is as good as rice in fact better
Rice is a cb will end up playing n cb. I've been watching him since he was 16. He will not be a top midfielder he can be a top cb.

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{Ed001's Note - I bet you weren't saying that when he was Irish.... ;-)

12 Apr 2019 16:15:19
😂 i was actually ed001. He is a very good cb and an average midfielder.
He does have lots of time to work on his technique and improve the sorted of good foot work but i don't thin k he will become a really top midfielder.

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{Ed001's Note - no I believe you. Honest.}

12 Apr 2019 16:31:48
£100 million for rice and wan bissaka sounds not far off tbh.

Would love both with a sprinkling of grealish.

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12 Apr 2019 16:37:47
Ed001 for me he made the right choice. If i was him i'd have done the same thing. He is English himself after all never mind the fact that ireland are really poor with little prospect of getting any better.

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{Ed001's Note - I know mate, I was just winding you up.}

12 Apr 2019 16:43:07
So if Rice went for £60 million, imagine we might get £61 million back for Pogba?

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12 Apr 2019 16:56:20
I get that 001 😚but i don't see the hype around him. Bang average in midfield very limited. He can improve and he has an attitude that will bring him far but lots and lots of deficiencies as a top level midfielder at this stage.

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{Ed001's Note - hmmmm I think he is absolutely perfect for the role he plays. Great positioning, breaks up play and can pick a pass. He does not need anything else, Makalele was limited but he was great at what he did.}

12 Apr 2019 17:09:02
He has one job to do and does it well. Is he what's needed at United? Would he get enough game time to justify the cost?

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12 Apr 2019 17:18:08
Tris watch the chelsea match again from the other night. Positionally he was awful and he was found wanting all night.
To be fair he is only learning what is a new role for him but i'd want to see hom doing it for a couple more years before lauding him and spending 40 plus million on him.

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{Ed001's Note - I am not so sure he was found wanting as that he was overrun because the team was set up wrong. Impossible to be in two places at once and he was left trying to do that at times. I think you are being a bit harsh on him personally.}

12 Apr 2019 17:49:48
Personally I'd take that 100m, add another 20 and spend it on Ruben Neves and wan bissaka.

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12 Apr 2019 17:53:13
Unreal how many forums you get people playing fantasy football Ed.

"Here 250m will sell these for X amount and buy him for 40m him for 60m and have some left for him at 35m" some absolute ones about.

Writing up formations with 2 or 3 of our current players and the rest are summer buys, unreal.

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Leicester City v Newcastle United Preview 12 April 2019

12 Apr 2019 09:56:24
{Ed's Note - Reid the Red has posted a new article entitled, Leicester City v Newcastle United Preview 12 April 2019

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Review Of The Day 12th April 2019

12 Apr 2019 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 12th April 2019

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12 Apr 2019 09:36:11
Well done chelsea!

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mbd              

12 Apr 2019 17:47:45
Racism seems to be rearing it’s ugly head again and whilst it can happen anywhere, Chelsea fans seem to be making a habit of it. It’s up to fans to stamp it out, difficult as that might be.

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