Manchester United Banter Archive August 12 2015

 

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12 Aug 2015 22:42:22
we have just bought a young 21 year old dutch lad who scored 22 league goals in 30 games last season.
he is quick , can beat a man ,scores great goals, freekick expert and very skillfull.

yet i read we have no goal threat , no pace, we need a reus or a bale .
we might of just bought the next big thing but it would seem to me he hasn't good a big enough name .

Believable9 Unbelievable9

12 Aug 2015 22:59:11
I think you are right jred. I said the other day I would really like to see him drive at defences the way Sterling did agaisnt WBA. He has the makings of a top winger so get him on the wing!

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12 Aug 2015 23:09:34
Jred you've turned heel on me ha. I think depay will be great I think we need better than Pedro tho, but with Memphis we still not looking a threat, I'll give him more than a game tho ha.

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12 Aug 2015 23:09:56
maze
i would like to see herrera play the 10 with depay and maybe pedro wide.

we look strong a cm strong at fb.
maybe only a cb missing if ddg stays .

starts to look a stronger team .
i would love us to buy ramos , bale and messi but i do think this is a stronger squad than many give it credit for.

it should be ,i think we will of spent 300mil in 12 month soon

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12 Aug 2015 23:16:59
I still think a front 3 from Depay, Rooney, Januzaj, Mata, Pedro and Wilson, offers a good blend of youth, experience, pace, craft, intelligence and strength.

Let them do their thing, instead of stifling them, and I think what we have is plenty good enough for the EPL anyway.

I'd still love Bale, though :)

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12 Aug 2015 23:27:42
Or maybe he's still a kid jred and people see the need to nurture young talent and not throw all your expectations on a 21 year old kid who has played little over 67 mins in the prem?

Just a thought mind.

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12 Aug 2015 23:48:29
chris
your quite right we should buy a 60 mill superstar like di maria who will take the epl by storm.

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13 Aug 2015 00:05:52
welsh
i think we have a good squad , i thought we had good squad last season that underperformed.
im just not sure the manager is getting enough out the squad.

i keep reading lvg is a top manager he just needs to buy bale and lewandowski.
well if liverpool bought bale and lewandowski rodgers would be a great manager.

lvg has signed a number of players for a large amount of cash . there maybe not the players i would of bought but there the players he wanted and there good players.

a front 3 of pedro ,rooney and depay look good to me tho.
herrera and the 2 sch looks a good cm.
our fb position look good
and there is still plenty on the bench.

imo we have the players maybe not the team.

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13 Aug 2015 00:13:53
99
i would agree with that .
imo i think we could have a strong forward line in the right system and tactics .

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13 Aug 2015 00:34:58
I meant to include Perreira in there, too. Hoping this is his breakthrough year.

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13 Aug 2015 01:59:56
Yeah jred, I think we agree that lvg isn't getting the best outta the obvious talent we do have, I think bale and lew are the type of player we should aim for not Pedro but saying that again the question is would LVG reign in the natural ability of bale type players too.

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13 Aug 2015 03:24:30
Massive hopes for him but till he comes of bench with 30 min left and turn it to 4 nil x

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13 Aug 2015 06:27:58
Jred

Yes, goals in the Dutch league do count but it is now the big league and you place all your faith in a 21 yr old unproven at this level. He is a good player, so, with him and what we have it may bring us top four. Not bad but our clubs ambitions should be more than that unless we have caught the 1990 Liverpool bug.

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13 Aug 2015 08:30:45
I should add that reading on here there is often an over rating of how good our players really are and this usually continues until the season ends when the reality of how good the players are is confirmed. Memphis may develop , Rooney may score goals but my opinion is that will not go near winning the league or CL with what we have because the opposition have better talent, particularly up front.

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13 Aug 2015 09:03:54
redman
i would say there is often an under rating of how good our players are and an overvrating of how good others are.

its fergys " cows in fields "

kagawa was a worldclass player until we bought him.
mata was chelsea best player until we bought him.

we have just bought a fantastic young player for 30 mil but its quite clear he is not a big enough name. is that what's happened to some of our fans

unless we buy a superstars for 50 million it seems we can't win the league, or the player isn't good enough.

but when has that ever worked for us , we have built the club on youth and proven EPL talent.
we are close to 300 mil spend in 12 month but for some fans its not enough.
we have bought some top players , but for some fans its not enough.

unless we have a superstar in every position some won't be happy .

its looks like we will get pedro and otamendi which would give us
a front 3 of pedro rooney depay.
a cm of herrera, schniederlin, and schwein.
a back 4 of shaw, ot, small, darm.
and then look at the bench.

thats the strongest team we have had in years, its a better team than fergy won the league (by 11 points ) with.

yet for some its still not enough, you talk about us being like liverpool.

a good manager will do well with that team and squad

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13 Aug 2015 09:44:29
Jred

"kagawa was a worldclass player until we bought him"
SAF bought the wrong type of player, it was not a Kagawa we needed and as I said at the time unless we changed our style he wouldn't fit and he didn't. It was a strange purchase and I did say that at the time
"Mata was chelsea best player until we bought him"
Again at the time I questioned whether we bought the player needed, lacked pace and was not the central midfield strength we needed and fortunately have now added

It isn't about fancy names but game changers and the ones that make the difference in tight games as for example Hazard did against us last season. LVG has noted it and commented on creativity and pace. Those top players keep picking up the big trophies and if we don't have those game changers of the top level we are far less likely to be winners.

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13 Aug 2015 10:11:16
I should add SAF won the league (11 points)the last time by adding the goal power of RVP and that was acknowledged as the difference.

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13 Aug 2015 10:12:16
redman
how much of depay have you seen?
lvg has noted we need a creative player and spent 31 mill on him
but it would seem he is not good enough for you .

60 mill was spent on the superstar di maria .
12 mill on darmian , i know who looks the better player.

getting to 300 mil spent in 12 month but its not enough , why.
because we haven't bought your favourite player.

like i said look at the team i posted above , that's a strong team the best we have had in a long time , stronger than our last title winning team .
but you won't be happy until we buy the player you want.

you slated moyes but the team he had was a shadow of the current one .
lvg has had 12 month ,he has had close to 300 mill its time to deliver.

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13 Aug 2015 10:21:10
So who would you buy redman?

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13 Aug 2015 10:54:14
Jred - perfect summation for me mate.

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13 Aug 2015 11:15:10
An interesting thread and I agree with points on both sides.

To argue jred, perhaps its not so much to do with flashy names or price tag and more to do with his age and development? I don't expect to see Depay hit great heights for at least 18 months (similar to hazard's progression) but some may feel we need a fast, creative player to hit the ground running THIS season.I also don't want too much pressure put on him too early, we shouldn't be relying heavily on a 21 yr old with no Epl experience.

I do agree with you though that the team you write on paper does look strong. It might be the case that if those players were more established at the club that we would worry less about the impact these players can have over the course of this season?

I have to say if we end up with Pedro and Ot I would be happy to go with that. Some people think we need top quality in every position and try to imagine the perfect 11 in their heads but not many teams have a worldy in every position.

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13 Aug 2015 11:39:45
beast
cheers dude.
HB
fully agree pal

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13 Aug 2015 12:36:40
Jred that was a really good post mate. Right on the money.

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13 Aug 2015 12:38:13
Jred

I don't have a favourite player but I can see the weakness in our team and I can see players of a standard who could take the team up a level and express an opinion about who that is. I also look at the strength of our opposition in the areas of our weakness and whilst our midfield is stronger than before there are weaknesses at the back and up front that makes it unlikely that we can sustain a title challenge.

I was rightly critical of the previous encumbent and he got rightly sacked. LVG has generally made quick decisive actions unlike he who should not be named and I agree with them. I don't see the team building as being finished nor do I care about the cost, I care about winning and to do that we need the right level players which we are short of in several positions. We struggled with goals last season , ship out two strikers, one who won the league with his goals previously and bring in a talented young man but add massive pressure on him to deliver alongside a player who has been in decline.

Your post seems more like setting up LVG for the sack with the he has everything we need comments , however he doesn't.

Strebor
Bale, Muller, Lewandowski level and Ramos yet Stones may have it at the back

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13 Aug 2015 13:18:22
redman
you sound like a kid playing fifa.
why not messi ?

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13 Aug 2015 13:35:23
Jred

Bit old for Fifa

Sadly my age means I heard your argument repeated for nearly 26 years

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13 Aug 2015 13:58:58
redman
what that after spending 300 mill in 12 month i think we have a strong squad .
that we can't buy every superstar out there .
that argument .
you want to buy muller - there is no way munich will let him go .
you want to buy lewandowski - i don't see munich letting him go ,
you want ramos - he is stopping at madrid
you want bale - he is stopping at madrid

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12 Aug 2015 20:53:28
Just out of interest do you guys feel we will field pretty much the same team against Villa as we did against Spurs keeping in mind we play Brugge midweek (ultimately it will be about five games in the next 15 days because of these qualifiers)?

I by no means think Villa are a good team -in fact I have tipped them for relegation- but with Rooney the only experienced striker, Carrick not the youngest on the roster anymore and Bastian still looking unfit could we see some rotations for that game?

Again I by no means think Brugge are anything great but I do not want to see us take the qualifying round lightly as another season out of the CL will be the worst. It would be nice to make the most of this busy schedule, get on a role over the next few weeks and if we can go into the Swansea game on the 30th with five wins under our belt we would have great momentum to push on.

Believable5 Unbelievable2

12 Aug 2015 21:40:56
If I was Sherwood I would sit back with my back line not playing too high a line and when there is a chance either put some crosses in to the guy they have just bought from Blackburn or try and get Agbonlahor in down the channels with a long through ball on breaks. I do think Sherwood will know we don't have any pace so by sitting in a deep position we may struggle to break them down. If I was him I would take a view that we don't have that striker who can put the ball in the net and will hope that one of their crosses finds a big forward to take a lead then defend deep from there. His big problem is if we take the lead before they are set. Villa Park has been a happy hunting ground for us but Sherwood can be cute tactically so it will be a test.

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12 Aug 2015 21:43:01
Never really works like that with 5 wins from the first 5 games, let's just take each game as it comes. I take it you are JMB? Just so we know.

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12 Aug 2015 22:12:07
redman
has rooney become your new moyes.
i can see now that everything that goes wrong this season will be down to one thing .

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12 Aug 2015 22:27:35
Red man I think you have got it spot on. I feel an early goal against Villa is exactly what we need. Hopefully Roo can get his goals going at Villa park at the weekend because the longer a striker goes without scoring the more it plays on their mind.

GDS2 what do you want me to say here? I have dodged your pathetic rouses about being Jmb previously as I have seen you call many a poster Jmb who doesn't have the same opinion as you. I do not care for your mate Jmb, I am here to talk about football.

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12 Aug 2015 22:50:25
Give it a week then yet another blow out and then another new account / name .Yawn yawn yawn

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12 Aug 2015 23:04:50
Yes Bfro your comment is very relevant to Manchester United.

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12 Aug 2015 23:14:52
I think he will go with same 11 maybe 1 change he will want as much football as possible into the legs of the starting 11 for Tuesday. At this stage of the season games will improve sharpness not tire, they need games. Barring injury I expect the same 11 or any out of 16 including bs ah mf av and rojo. I would add any new signing's to that core 16 and for me Jones Pereira Wilson adman will be purely back up new signings could relegate Av af and Romero to back up too

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13 Aug 2015 09:24:30
If LVG is a tactical manager he would be stupid to go in the game with the same 11.
We drew 1-1 against Villa last time around with them playing a flat back 5 and vlaar performed very well that day. One goal was scored by Benteke and Falcao for us.
I would go with the same back 4 when I would have dropped Blind, but Jones is out, rojo unfit and McNair isn't really ab upgrade on Blind. Gestede scores a lot of goals as headers and I think Blind would find it very difficult against him in open play.
Would you like to start a midfield of Carrick and Schneiderlin? I would personally not, cause I'm sure they'll drop deep and we don't really need 2 holding players. I'd start Herrera and Carrick. And most importantly I would drop Mata for Hernandez for the the sole reason that he will be in the box and Rooney would drop and there won't be anyone in the box to target.
We would be playing a cagey game against Brugge who I feel would adopt a similar defend first strategy

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13 Aug 2015 10:57:06
I agree with Ken, it will be pretty much the same team imo. He will have looked at Chelsea last season and will want our players to get familiar playing together regularly. That is why I worry for a lot of the second string this season (unless they are a defender).

Brugge should be a walk over, especially over 2 legs.

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12 Aug 2015 18:40:14
I am a little surprised that LVG is going into the season with potentially just Wayne Rooney and the little pea up front.

Looking at his teams he has generally had 4 strikers generally 2 tricky forwards and two target men.

Ajax - Litmanen, kluivert, Kanu & Peter van bosses

Barca 97 to 00 - sonny Anderson, stoichkov, dugarry & juan antonio Pizzi

Barca 02 to 03 - saviola, kluivert, dani garcia & Sergio garcia

Bayern munich - olic, klose, muller & Gomez

For arguments sake let's say we sign pedro we are still missing the target man. Splash the cash and get lewandowski. Young, powerful, good technical skills and pace. And when Klop comes in next summer to replace LVG he knows how to get the best out of him.

Believable1 Unbelievable1

12 Aug 2015 18:58:36
a lot of them players also played ACM.
lvg has said he has rooney ,wilson chica , depay and adan who can play as strikers.
he seems happy with them 5 even if others are not

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12 Aug 2015 19:06:00
I think fellaini will be used as the target man

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12 Aug 2015 19:45:42
As much as i long for him, I don't think Lewandowski is available. If he was Real (who I believe he smashed 4 past in the champs league) would love to get him.

I do think Benzema is possible though which isn't the worst 2nd prize!

😈

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12 Aug 2015 20:49:30
Myself and Red Man have been going on about Lewandawski for a long time now. We should've gone all out to get him.

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12 Aug 2015 21:24:55
Lewandowski is a striker who would cause carnage in the PL in my opinion Schmid.

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12 Aug 2015 21:42:18
Yep, just you two :)

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12 Aug 2015 21:43:20
last year everyone said lvg needed a strootman to make his system work.
this year it looks like it is lewandowski .

i think messi would be a great signing

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12 Aug 2015 21:45:55
Schmidfield

Yes agreed, LvG will be judged this season and without a true top class striker a la RvN, it may be his last season with us so it is up to him. I have no loyalty to LvG so he has decisions to make. Note, the Ed's said Lewandowski was available and his agent even hinted what it would cost to get him.

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12 Aug 2015 22:16:46
redman
then why has no one bought him .
top striker available , why don't munich want him , why hasn't anyone bought him.

if augero was available i'm sure he would be snapped up

by the way his agent said
"there must be a signal from the club, from Munich. There is no such signal so we are not thinking about it, because even thinking about a change of club would be unfair in my opinion to the current employers. Bayern would have to think about why they would get rid of Robert Lewandowski. It seems to me that there is no reason to even think about it"

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13 Aug 2015 01:01:31
Maze red Man. If lvg gets lewandawaski and no one else I'll be a happy man.
Pereira can be our new winger and our defence can just about cope due to better midfield. It is the striker role that is the problem.

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12 Aug 2015 17:28:26
Ok so having already stated I don't really watch any football outside of the epl can anybody who watches la liga give their opinion on Nicolas Otamendi ? Is he what we're looking for ? What kind of player is he ? A rio, a vidic or more of a hummels ball playing type. Thanks in advance

Believable0 Unbelievable0

12 Aug 2015 18:10:42
He was by far the best defender in la liga last season. He is a vidic more than a Rio. He is powerful, strong, relatively quick. He is not the tallest, but is good in the air.

He scores a lot from set pieces. Headers, not taking a free kick. He reads the game well. Would be vidic with smelling being the Rio replacement.

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12 Aug 2015 18:16:31
All I know is that he is more of a Vidic than Rio. He has had an immense season with Valencia and has been one of the best defenders in Europe last season.

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12 Aug 2015 18:22:18
He a Rio in that he has lots of pace and is good with his feet but he dosen't have Rio strenght or height

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12 Aug 2015 18:56:36
Tackles well with either foot.

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12 Aug 2015 19:07:37
Awesome, so do you guys think he'll be enough this season ?

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12 Aug 2015 19:34:39
Lets hope if we do sign him its on a long contract we all know how the latino players feel about going back to Spain when the big 2 come calling.

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12 Aug 2015 22:23:44
Let's not forget, he had a fantastic partner in Mustafi last year. I'm not saying Mustafi is better, but they complimented each other very well in La Liga last year.

Mine.

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12 Aug 2015 16:56:32
Hi folks rangers fan in peace here, always had a soft spot for man utd and have read your site for a while as well, one thing that puzzles me though is when talking of potential cb pairings it always seems to be new signing plus either jones or smalling with no mention of rojo. Imo otamendi beside rojo and you guys will have a very good defence. Is rojo rated at the club?

Believable1 Unbelievable0

12 Aug 2015 17:37:19
A lot of people on this site rave about him, but I've never been overly impressed, he's a bit of a battler but nothing compared to jones, and gets caught out of position lots so not as good as smalling in that regards. Also he cannot pass a ball to save his life. i'd be terrified starting him in central defence against chelsea or arsenal. he's back up at best imo.

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12 Aug 2015 17:47:30
I rate highly and I agree with you. I think he will be our long term no1 lvg appears to rate him but you're right not many on here do. His defensive stats are good he is relatively inexperienced at cb and has a lot of improvement in Hamas he possesses a lot of the right attributes to succeed IMO

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12 Aug 2015 17:47:31
Rojo is a decent player but for me smalling always looks more composed and we need someone with a calming influence, he's definitely a solid second choice for me though if smalling or otamendi aren't available, then again lvg is OCD about having a left footed lcb so he might end up starting anyway

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12 Aug 2015 18:00:49
I haven't seen enough of him to judge him fairly as a CB at Utd, I don't like him at all at LB. He is a tough player which we all like I'm sure and is very committed in the tackle like most Argies. Personally I think he doesn't have the ability with the ball that's required, he switches off and has a tendency to hoof the ball a lot. If we expect to win things he isn't a starting CB for me, but he is better than both Jones & Evans - (and Blind haha). The hoofing was a lot to do with how poor the movement was in midfield and upfront last season to be fair, this should improve now.

Our new Wes Brown, he could improve given a run of games of course, hopefully he turns into our next Vidic.

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12 Aug 2015 18:35:28
Mixed feelings then, i can't see the appeal in smalling or jones tbf, good players but not in the class of a club like yours. I think otamendi and rojo along with another 2 signings and you are a good shout at winning champs league. Battler beside a leader kinda logic. Just hope your neighbours or chelsea don't get to buy the league.

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12 Aug 2015 18:42:19
I think blind is a really good player beast (not a cb right enough) technically sound but no pace. Versatile though which i believe would by why van gaal signed him

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12 Aug 2015 19:43:34
Seems a strange LVG signing to me as Rojo is kind of anti philosophy, he likes a tackle but isn't an option when we have the ball in possession as his second touch tends to be a hoof. I think that's why LVG will go for Smalling and hopefully Otamendi, Jones is another player who i don't think has a footballing brain, hence all the last ditch tackles as he is so often out of position, don't think he is disciplined tactically enough for LVG, but has the versatility to be a valuable squad player.

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12 Aug 2015 19:49:43
Although I'm more a celtic boy (Irish). I agree, I feel Blind is an upgrade on John Oshea. A good upgrade!!

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12 Aug 2015 20:30:43
Blind an upgrade on O'Shea! Are you kidding?

I'd like to trade in my top of the line Rolls Royce for a people carrier.

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12 Aug 2015 20:49:43
Eh?.

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12 Aug 2015 21:11:58
Romero, Otimendi and rojo. You have the Argentinian central defence and goalkeeper. That's not a bad combination, is it!!

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12 Aug 2015 21:44:57
Danny,

Are you suggesting blind isn't better than john oshea?

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12 Aug 2015 22:26:53
That was my thinking schmid, and patzi i won't hold that against you pal lol. But c'mon danny mate, blind is twice the player lol

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12 Aug 2015 22:32:48
Ask yourself:

How many times did Blind score an injury time equaliser against the world champions?

How many times did Blind nutmeg a world player of the year?

And have you ever actually seen Blind march down the wing?

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12 Aug 2015 23:00:22
Wasnt questioning oshea mate who was a goid player just i think blind is better, but as for marching down the wing bud i do believe he played cm for you boys most of last season and a few games at left back in which he did pretty well if my mem serves me well

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12 Aug 2015 23:23:09
And how many injury-time winners has Blind scored against the Scousers?

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12 Aug 2015 15:55:53
Little rant - We are just over 2 weeks away from the end of the window. Remember - this was the much talked about "3rd window", the one after which we would be ready to challenge again on all fronts according to the vast majority of people with an interest in all things Utd.

I haven't seen many (if any) posts at all about this 3rd window for a long time, despite last June/July it being all we talked about, "LVG needs 3 windows".

So we have a lot of work to do in my opinion because I look at our squad and worry a great deal. How will we handle all the extra games? How will we integrate any further signings without it damaging what we have worked on all of pre-season (which seems to be mapping the fast food restaurants of Manchester if you are Bastian, maybe Shaw lent him his from last year)? How do we keep 8+ midfielders happy vying for 2 or is it 3 positions? What the hell is going on with DDG? Where is the CB we obviously need? Where is the back up striker or competition for el capitano? Why are we still tinkering with players signed as experts in one position, but trying to "mould" them into something else and paying a premium for the privilege?

Please ignore the tactical/philosophical aspects of our games which haven't changed much in 12 months performance wise, what about the core simple fact that this is the time we are meant to be ready, we are meant to be back and feared but the vast majority of us think we will be scrapping for 4th as do the bookies as do our rivals?

It may be early, but we are relying far too much on luck this coming season. We 'hope' when we should 'expect' and that is a disgrace in my opinion. I know people will say my post is premature only one game has been played, which we won, but look at the bigger picture please.

Can we just remember we are Man Utd guys and call a spade a spade. Too much has to be done in such a short space of time and we have one of the most injury prone defences in world football!

Dereliction of duty all across the board!

Believable5 Unbelievable5

12 Aug 2015 16:17:01
Agreed, though I'm still optimistic we will get 2 more transfers in and I don't want to judge our performance of one game, if we have not seen the slightest improvement and have no further transfers by the end of the window then I'll be skeptical.

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12 Aug 2015 16:42:12
Who did we buy in January window? don't say Valdes please. In terms of rebuilding this is our Second Window. As the season goes on, i am sure we will see lots of improvement in our gameplay.
Why do u have to be so negative, Beast?

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12 Aug 2015 16:51:16
Beast, We have just under 3 weeks for the window to close, you must have been itching to post this but why not wait till the window actually closes? Afraid you may not get a chance to post this at all by then?

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mbd              

12 Aug 2015 16:57:03
I'll judge where we are at January

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12 Aug 2015 16:57:43
Everyone going on about schweinsteiger's "fat" legs, the guy is a tank, it's not fat go back and look at his World Cup games he's always been massive.

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12 Aug 2015 17:13:57
Sorry mate, but once again - for the umpteenth time - I have to disagree. :)

I can't for the life of me understand how you can already consign us to another season of mediocrity when we all know that not all the pieces have been put in place. There will, IMO, definitely more business to be done in the transfer market; and a few choice players might make a big difference to our attacking play.

There were clear signs in that game against Spurs that the work being done on the training pitch with regards to the defensive set up and general organisation, is starting to take become entrenched in the minds of the players: The team will be a lot stronger and more capable of grinding out results than the previous season.
I know you don't have a particular love for the more physical base line elements of the game; and you believe that we should be playing the "united way" and winning in a entertainment fashion; but I honestly believe that the PL has evolved to a point where those teams who like to play a cavalier brand of football are on a hiding for nothing when it comes to winning major trophies.
Of course, I want to see good football; but at the end of the day, I would rather win titles playing a more cautious brand of football as opposed to playing great football and winning sod all.

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12 Aug 2015 17:30:34
Hi Beast, good post.
However, the sheer fact in the first place that someone was being given '3 windows' to rebuild which basically translates as spend millions upon millions always worried me. It is, to be honest, all about philosophy so it's impossible to disregard that factor completely. LVG is an extraordinary manager/coach who in my opinion has taken on the most difficult job in football in the most competitive league in world football where you have one another team (Arsenal) grinding out a philosophy year on year out whilst adding select talent here and there and 3 others trying to buy the league. We have got to be realistic, we will not 'buy' every single top player in the world because we aren't alone anymore. What we need is trust, patience and 'some' additional players who can improve us in key areas. Your post rings true in a lot of ways but my advice to you is wait and see. I can see Chelsea having a lot of draws this weekend. City in my opinion have not strengthened enough and will lose games this year against similar teams to last. Liverpool will prove a threat and Arsenal will probably win the league this year, that is unless we do.

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12 Aug 2015 17:39:37
Srestha - So January doesn't count, why not say 3 years then if that's the case?

MBD - Several of my concerns will still exist even if we do sign a CB, Winger, GK and Striker. I have not been itching to post it, I just had a think about where we are and where we expected to be. Fighting for 4th wasn't where most of us expected to realistically be if we are being truthful when LVG took over. We could win the league, but odds and brains say that would be very very unlikely.

RedAndy - Fair enough mate

Sam - I do it from watching how we set-up, how we played and how our squad looks. I watched all of pre-season and the performances were the same as against Spurs. A lot of people were saying "it's pre-season, wait until the Spurs game before criticising", well Spurs came and went and the mind-set was just the same. We are better defensively because we have 8 player defending when we attack!

I'm simply saying I expected us to be much further along than we are. We have a very unbalanced team, plenty of upheaval to come and we are approaching games too cautiously to make up for those deficiencies that the manager is contributing to rather than fixing.

I do agree the game has changed, but not as quickly as we are making it look.

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12 Aug 2015 17:51:12
KingGiggsy - Fair points mate. It will certainly be tight and points will be dropped all over the place, last season was very helpful in that regard (the Lucky Dutchman). Obviously it is a sign of things balancing out and becoming more competitive, however 5 years ago say, we were above that watching below, now we are not even considered amongst the favourites for the league - rightly so.

I'm just hoping for a glimmer of hope from the manager that his plan will work and this rubbish we are exposed to will be worth it in the end. I thought we had it for 3-4 weeks last season, but that seemed to be the anomaly unfortunately.

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12 Aug 2015 18:10:11
Beast I think u have got all hung up on this 3 window comment from ed02.

Why would u include January when all we signed was a back up GK? I understand this doesn't fit the narrative u are trying to spin but fact is in January we signed a back up gk, if u think LVG really does feel all the pieces are in place then I'm afraid u may be wrong.

The window is not even closed yet so we might go out and sign that CB we need or the striker to get us close.

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12 Aug 2015 18:08:45
Kinggiggsy, great post. You too Sam.
Patience and trust is what we need, you cannot underestimate the job that lvg has undertaken. Thankfully there are more knowledgeable people in charge than some of the 'know it all's' that come on her to type out their bile and bias most of the trolls are generating enough hot air to fly Richard Branson into space in one of his hot air balloons 😃
I have no problem with supporters having wildly different opinions on tactics formations players or indeed coaches but a few posters on here a just attention seeking trolls IMO taking polar opinions and views just in order to slags off the manager for every little thing.
I genuinely believe a couple of them don't actually support the club at all.
The double standards on here are unreal I said the same in a post below.
I would encourage all to lay off the personal character abuse the sensational bull shit claims and get back to sharing and respecting each others opinions and supporting the club as a whole, yeah everybody loves a bit of slagging and banter, a touch of sarcasm and a decent heated debate, but the constant whining and bitching and moaning by a few on here is getting tiresome, from let's be honest a completely ignorant viewpoint due to having no experience no inside knowledge, and no bloody clue of how things work.
I apologise for the length of the post but its been passing me off for weeks and I wouldn't tolerate their sort of behaviour from a 5 year old

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12 Aug 2015 18:41:05
the ed also said moyes would be given 3 windows to build the team.
things can change .
lvg has been fully backed in the transfer market

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12 Aug 2015 19:01:47
ken its nothing compared to when we signed moyes.
or the stick rooney gets .
whos to say whos right or wrong

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12 Aug 2015 19:52:47
Lots of valid points boys. I definitely feel we are far from finished. But if it turns out we only get Otamendi. I'd be quite pleased to be honest.
Obvs I'd be ecstatic if we got a powerful forward too!!!

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12 Aug 2015 21:22:07
I have to agree with Beast almost completely. For me, I don't care if it is two or three or four windows. The fact is we are desperately short of absolute top talent and especially in central defence, striker and right wing.
If come the end of this month, we have bought Otimendi, Lewandawski and Greizman, then I will say other teams are going to fear us and we will challenge anyone in the league.
However, if we don't buy these top players or their equal, then I'm afraid top 4 is as good as we can hope for.
Chelsea have top quality in goal, midfield, and attack. As do City. Arsenal have it in midfield and a good attack especially if they strengthen. So that leaves us and the scousers fighting it out for 4th.

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13 Aug 2015 01:36:07
Great debate.

Beast, you make some valid points; all is not rosy.

However, I find myself agreeing with KingGiggsy and Ken.

Fergie left a mess and then compounded it by annointing a new manager who didn't have the gravitas for the role.

LvG has taken on possibily the biggest job in football; replace Fergie and make Utd good again.

If you look at where we are at compared to when he started I think he's making a reasonable fist of it and most importantly I believe he will leave a decent situation for the new manager in a year or two.

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12 Aug 2015 15:46:25
I think this Pedro signing will surely happen in couple of days but I am really confused about Pedro.
Usually when i chat with my football fanatic friends, some claim him fantastic underrated footballer with pace and brain. They speak to me claiming his several qualities which makes me think he can be very good addition.
Then I turn towards some more people and they don't even rate him at all. An average player at best and had success because of his incredible team mates. don't know what to find.
I have watched him several times but can't say he has amazed me.But also I never watched him closely as there are lots of players in his team that can catch your eye easily. Only time will tell. let's hope he turns out very good

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12 Aug 2015 16:00:11
Reminds me a bit of Walcott. Bit better on the ball, but not quite as quick. Basically not somebody that will make a major difference, we need a Hazard/Sanchez type player desperately, Pedro is ok, like signing Ashley Young again as somebody mentioned earlier.

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12 Aug 2015 16:02:24
Depends on how you view a player.

Pedro has speed, can beat a man, presses non stop when his team are out of possession and scores key goals.

Very very good player - would love to have him at United.

I paid very close attention to how he fared against the big troll Ivanovic when Barca played Chelsea recently - he gave him a really hard time, as did Swansea's Montero at the weekend.

Anyone that thinks Pedro is "average at best" doesn't know what they're talking about.

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12 Aug 2015 16:25:22
Would you like Montero at Utd, Scotbos?

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12 Aug 2015 17:05:00
Pedro is no average player. He has won everything not by doing a Vermaelen but by actually being there when it mattered and scoring big time goals. He is an incisive footballer, with great passing, pressing, speed and an end product to his game. He scores in the big stages when it matters. It tells a lot about a player. And he has always sacrificed for the team, says a lot about a player too. And he fits Van Gaal's idea of a team player, multi-functional player. We are not getting a cast-out here, we (if we do get him) are getting a player who cannot displace the trio, and that trio will not yield to any other player in the world. Whenever he has played, he has never been in the shadows of his great teammates, but has always stood out. He will inject that pace, creativitiy and goals up front. I'd say it will be a very bold decision to not take the chance to sign him.

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12 Aug 2015 17:18:02
He is a very good player and technically very gifted. His ball retention and passing os very good and will no doubt improve us.

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12 Aug 2015 17:47:02
Beast, you asked. Would you like Montero at Utd, Scotbos?

Given I had already described Pedro as "has speed, can beat a man, presses non stop when his team are out of possession and scores key goals", what do you think?

The only similarity Montero has with Pedro is speed, nothing else.

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12 Aug 2015 17:58:50
Memphis is intended to be United's answer to Hazard.

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12 Aug 2015 21:26:12
And that's the problem Beast. We have bought a lot of good solid players. Pedro is just another good, solid player but he's not sensational. Greizman and reus, these will add to our team. Pedro will just be another player, nothing more nothing less.

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12 Aug 2015 13:59:59
This may have been covered, but are we bidding for Otamendi? Reports flying round everywhere I can't make head nor tail of it?!

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12 Aug 2015 13:48:55
Ed some journalists for a Valencia based TV-news firm are claiming a potential transfer for Otamendi has sped up in the last few hours. Could it have some truth to it seeing as Ramos is (finally) off the table?

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{Ed007's Note - Ramos was always going to sign a new deal at the Bernabeu so I don't see why that would have any bearing on Otamendi's situation.}

12 Aug 2015 13:57:37
Lovely chap that mourinho. Publicly criticising the team doctor for doing her job.
Top bloke. I would love him here at united, what with his swashbuckling brand of football especially against the bigger clubs.

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12 Aug 2015 14:24:56
It's disgusting that he made this a public issue. By all means address the issue internally, but to make it public is terrible.

Still I would rather doctors criticised openly than the players!

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12 Aug 2015 14:54:07
He's an odious, classless little man. Some thought he'd changed when he came back. They were wrong.

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12 Aug 2015 14:58:39
he does that too

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12 Aug 2015 15:09:29
I'm sure the referee called the doctor on anyway. which was a rule brought in to stop play acting as it would temporarily disadvantage your team by removing the "injured" player from the pitch?? Mourinho can be an ass most of the time anyway.

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12 Aug 2015 15:26:00
I agree with all of your comments but I think you are missing the bigger picture here, for me Mourinho is doing what he does best and that is to take the spotlight, the pressure and all the press criticism ahead of a huge fixture for his players. Allowing them to prepare as best they possibly can. The red tops will fill their columns with this issue instead of heaping more pressure onto his players, wouldn't surprise me if she was back on match day duty in a couple of weeks.

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12 Aug 2015 16:02:49
Tot66 - I'd normally agree with this, but I don't think that's the case here. Nobody would be talking about Chelsea this week had he not piped up. They drew with a good Swansea and were down to 10 men. The players wouldn't be under any scrutiny from the media this week imo - he is just being a plum (possibly something to do with the appeal over the red but clutching at straws).

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12 Aug 2015 16:03:11
Jose Mourinho, is a fine football coah but he is a cheat and he teaches and ecourages his layers to cheat and I know this from talking to several ex players that played under him.
Tme wasting / feigning injury are 2 of his preferred methods of cheating and he has given players written documents instructing them how to time waste and cheat when they are ahead in games, he fell fowl of his own methods at the weekend.
Im afraid I lost all respect for the man when he came from behind villenova (ex barca manager) and poked him in the eye and ran away like the silly imature sneaky little tosspot that he is, he had not got the guts to stand and poke him in the eye face to face. He is a cheating little runt IMO.
Thjat said he gets his players to play for him and gets his team to win football matches, anybody who admires those cheating character traits in Jose are not football supportersIMO they are anti football.

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12 Aug 2015 16:04:34
Bang on TOT the guy is a mastermind .You watch i bet the doctor is back on the bench next week .Its mindgames the real reason he was upset is the ref stopped the game when hazard thought he had won a free kick on a counter attack.

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12 Aug 2015 16:06:28
To be vilified by your employer's publicly for putting a player's safety first and performing your duty as a doctor tells you everything you need to know about that club and their manager.

Disgusting.

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12 Aug 2015 16:18:39
TOT66
Yes, in the microsecond that he had in which she rushed off to attend to hazard,he quickly made this ingenious plan as you suggested and threw a tantrum. There is a video showing it from a very good position. Later, he further worked upon the masterplan and blamed her in the media. Sheer genius.

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12 Aug 2015 17:10:03
IMBS,

Don't recall saying that he planned it all on the spot, he had a tant because he didn't want to lose a man from the pitch for 15 seconds. If you look at the original post it is in regard to what has been done since then, not the original incident. Sorry I have upset you so much.

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12 Aug 2015 17:44:14
TOT66
lol, no upsetting here mate. Its just that i find it astounding that even his mistakes or deficiencies are somehow seen as masterstrokes. Its called making excuses. Wenger does it all the time. He's never called a genius for it though.

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12 Aug 2015 19:54:21
If Hazard stopped rolling around on the player every-time he ran into an opponent maybe the medical staff wouldn't think he was injured and needed treatment. So glad Mourinho wasnt wanted, i will never forget his cowardly poke into Tito's eye the bloke is scum and i assume he expects the same level of dishonesty and lack of ethics from his players.

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12 Aug 2015 13:00:58
What's people's thoughts on City apparently been in for Pedro.

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12 Aug 2015 13:12:54
I would rather Reus, Bale or greizmann ahead of Pedro. If we're signing players who are below that level of player then we can expect not to be at the top. If that type of player isn't available at this time should we buy just to say we've bought, I don't think so, IMO of course.

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12 Aug 2015 13:30:45
Maybe leaked by barca to hurry a bid from us.

I can't see man city being interested if they're close to signing de Bruyne

Only my opinion

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12 Aug 2015 13:37:48
I'd be very disappointed if either Pedro or Otamendi end up at City. But as you know City are after all the professional players on Earth, especially the ones United are linked with :)

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12 Aug 2015 14:10:16
Welsh Red Devil

I agree and have been saying for days that we need the level above Pedro. If we buy Pedro we still need a top striker

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12 Aug 2015 14:14:15
If city get pedro instead of us then we should just take debruyne ( as the meerkat would say )SIMPLES

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12 Aug 2015 14:17:29
Why is everyone apologizing with 'only my opinion'? Everything here is obviously opinion.

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12 Aug 2015 14:40:18
Probably because most of the time you ain't allowed your own opinion or at least seems that way

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12 Aug 2015 15:38:52
We should go all out for Reus and make an offer he can't refuse.
I'd Draxler over Pedro anyday.
One day LVG says we lack physicality and then we could go on to sign Pedro.
We should be looking at world class or potential world class players and not average players like Pedro.
Anybody in a Barca teams would score loads of goals, the amount of chances Xavi, Iniesta , Messi and Alves created were very high.
I know Pedro is a proven player and shouldn't we give more chances to a certain player called Pereria who looked our best winger in pre-season.
Far better wingers out there.

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12 Aug 2015 16:55:11
I'm not apologising for my optinion but I feel like I need to put a pre curser in so I'm not shot down for it as Dave suggests sometimes we are shot down.
I agree with the above post from Rohan and with red man, we have signed averagely too often lately, is Pedro better than Mata? Prob not, he maybe faster but he's not better so I don't see the point in signing him just because he's available. If LVG wants pace and creativity then go all out for bale or Reus if not stick with mata for now and give Januzaj/pereira some chances.
Same up top, if we're not going to buy better than Rooney to replace him then why buy for the sake of it, give Wilson game time or he will never develop.
Defence is slightly different because surely they're are several players we could sign better than what we have, Otamendi, Laporte, Garay, Ramos of course. I think beast said just now this 3rd window is meant to galvanise us, I think we are still 3/4 players short of achieving what United and it's fans should want and that's success and I'm sorry but i'm used to exciting football so while we're not winning trophies can we at least play some decent stuff.
Every player seems inhibited and we can't keep blaming the moyes era the LVG era has already lasted longer, it can't still be a come down the fergie days, what players are even still there in the main. I know it seems a negative post and I really hope we gel and I'm proven wrong but I'm just being honest and realistic, I don't see that we've moved forward enough. I see Ed001 butting heads with Liverpool fans cz they are happy with rogers is doing and what they are seeing, I don't think we are playing much diff from them, all possession, devoid of ideas and creativity and weak at the back, so how can us fans be happy with that, I know I'm not.

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12 Aug 2015 17:25:31
welsh red
there is plenty of money so its down to lvg .
if he rates pedro who are you or any of us to judge .
lvg has spent 250 mill i think that will be close to 300mill in a week or 2.

if the squad still isn't good enough there is only one man to blame

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12 Aug 2015 17:52:44
I think as a fan we have every right to judge jred, no offence. personally I think Pedro is not the calibre of player we should be aiming for.
Exactly my point it's down to LVG the way we are playing, but in all honesty nobody can say it's enjoyable to watch over his reign so far. So it begs the question is it going to get any better and therefore are we going to improve enough to challenge? I'm not sure, I hope so, but the creative, flair players we do have already are not creating or look threatening and it's making for bland football, I know people need to gel etc. but if they're good enough they gel straight away, we've looked pedestrian for 2 years now bar the odd game.
Has anyone noticed when we score and our confidence is flowing without the shackles we can unplayable but then it suddenly goes away again like they've just remembered they shouldn't be playing that way, it's odd.

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12 Aug 2015 18:09:32
welsh
i agree with that , we fans may think x y z are good players and that's why we have sites like this , its great to talk about .
i keep reading lvg is doing a great job he just needs to sign bale or lewandowski etc etc .
lvg has had time and money if we go into the next season with a team that people don't feel is good enough its lvg fault.
we can't just keep saying he needs another 100 or 200 mill to spend .

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12 Aug 2015 18:58:52
Yeah exactly, I often think because we finished 7th, people say LVG has done well cz we got 4th but in reality, with that spend, that's the bare minimum. I'm expecting total football cz he's Dutch perhaps but we are playing like Netherlands did in the World Cup which wasn't too exciting. I often wonder what Ryan Giggs must think sitting there remembering the teams he played in down the years.

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12 Aug 2015 21:32:20
Agree Welsh. Pedro is a really good player but not a special player. Is he going to improve us sufficiently to challenge? No.
I would rather see Pereira playing than Pedro.
Our immediate and desperate needs are CB and striker.

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12 Aug 2015 12:06:37
Interesting to read Rafael's comments in regards to LVG "he didn't like me, I don't know why" he says. Very interesting as he was very well liked in the dressing room with all the players wishing him well and saying they were sad he had gone.

When Falcao left United his Colombian compatriot Faustino Asprilla said that although Falcao didn't have the best of seasons at United, Van Gaal had "a personal problem" with the player which was one of the reasons for his constant omissions from the team.

When RVP moved on he also said "The Atmosphere changed between me and Louis and people at the club saw it, but I was always professional. I was still thinking we could come back from holiday and start from scratch, but when I came back it wasn't an honest battle any more. Fighting to get back in the team wasn't given to me as an option."

When you add this to the treatment of Valdes (which has gone quiet all of a sudden and has apparently upset the Spanish speakers at the club) coupled with ex players like Stoichkov and Seedorf and coaches such as Koeman and Mulesteens comments regarding him, it does beg the question is the manager picking on certain players due to personal reasons rather than professional ones?

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12 Aug 2015 12:45:11
I want to look at this differently for a second, and you may be right regarding personal issues. Let's also throw ADM into the mix.

Rafael - for a disciplined system he's a nightmare, awful player to have when you need an organised defence.

Falcao - it's true he couldn't play with his back to goal, but the chances he did get he really made a meal of, when Rooney is performing better you pick him.

RVP - His attitude since Moyes has been awful, maybe the relationship had changed but that's because it's a different environment.

Valdes - I'm not sure what has gone on there, but from what I understand Van Gaal asked him to play in all of the U21 games because he wasn't getting first team football, he only played in a handful.

For me, that would be why they're dropped and they've all just got bruised egos, I've met Rafael though, really lovely guy.

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12 Aug 2015 13:03:37
Interesting post, but we all knew the LVG can be abrasive with players, coaches etc. With regards RVP he was below par during Moyes year as well and was not good last year. Re Rafael, he was always injured, very nice guy but always injured. Falcao, the guy scored 4 goals all season, so what is the complaint?
Stoichkov was a star at Barca but when LVG took over, he was already on the down slope, he got rid and gave Zavi and Iniesta their chance, are you saying that wasnt a good decision? Of course Stoichkov is going to be upset, but his replacements hadn't done too badly!
LVG is always going to annoy someone, he is a no nonsense manager and that's they way it is. Sir Alex did the same with any of the players he didn't like, they were shipped out before they knew it.

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12 Aug 2015 13:04:13
What about all the happy players? I heard RVP had a bad attitude and refused to play for most of the moyes era. I don't expect players that have been sold to be providing glowing reports of the person who sold them and identified them as not good enoug.

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12 Aug 2015 13:08:02
moon
lvg is well known for falling out with players and people in general

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12 Aug 2015 13:11:21
That could well be the case Moon I'm not going to argue about it. I just think it's strange how all these similar quotes are coming out from different camps. Surely it's just not sour grapes on everyones end?

As for Valdes didn't he post a picture of himself playing for the U21s or reserves with a baffled caption when LVG claimed he declined to play?

We all know in any industry everyone has enemies or people who don't think highly of them but there seems to be many a respectable individual in the footballing industry who has little to no respect for LVG.

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12 Aug 2015 13:23:26
Maze , you wouldn't be jmb under another guise by an chance ?

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12 Aug 2015 13:57:42
Managers from all clubs fall out with players. Ask ed001 about lucas at Liverpool all the stats say he should be in the team but the manager sees it differently. Jose sold debruyne he fell out with others. As has enrique and fergie and klopp.
Rafael has a crap injury record as has rvp and falcao all were under performing so they were sold. Darren fergusan wad popular too should we keep him for that reason?

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12 Aug 2015 14:01:45
For all the manager's so called intrinsic deficiencies with regards to working with players with certain attitudes, I personally think it is a breath of fresh air to have a manager in the modern game who will not tolerate inflated egos.

In an age where the football agent is fast becoming the main player in the game today - and whose players are acting like celebrity royalty - I am glad the likes of Van Gaal are still in the game; for the game will be worse off without that ilk of man.
First and foremost the manager is a human being; and - from what I have read of the man - he seems to be imbued with certain inalienable virtues that have shaped his football philosophy over the years.
He is a man of principle and I don't think he would take a dislike to someone unless they are the antithesis of what the manager believes in.

LVG would have been a great military general in the old Roman Republic. The Legions would have loved him. :O)

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12 Aug 2015 14:06:42
Sorry for having an opinion Bilko.

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12 Aug 2015 14:35:13
I personally don't think he has an issue with ego's he has an issue with anybody that disagrees with him and voices it (publicly or privately). He is like a dictator, if you are in with him then life is great, but you are always treading on egg shells no matter how "safe" you think you are.

I don't mind or care how he manages the players so long as the end product is entertaining and successful football. I like a confident manager who believes he knows best and some of these footballers do need to be put in their place, fair play to LVG for this. He is the manager, play by his rules or leave.

So I back LVG on that. However it doesn't mean he is the right dictator, a lot of what he says and does is riddled with contradictions - I wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes with him in charge!

Footballing superstars nowadays believe their own hype a lot of the time, he either has to adjust or we will struggle to attract the type of players we need to win things - there aren't too many yes men with world class talent knocking about, only one captaincy to give out as well!

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12 Aug 2015 14:53:26
The problem with filling a team with inflated egos is that invariably the manager managing them has to be a yes man. But I suppose ephemeral success is now preferable to long term success and stability.

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12 Aug 2015 14:59:48
abit like fergie or clough or Jose, they did ok

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12 Aug 2015 15:33:01
Very similar Ken - Nigel Pearson & Graeme Souness are also similar in that context. I think football is moving on now though and the role/power of the manager is weakening. LVG had his best success when men were men and getting sacked meant trouble for the player, now half of them want to be sold to get bigger bonuses. Back then the manager held your career by the balls so you had no choice but to go along with his hair brained schemes!

Probably why SAF struggled with young players toward the end of his career. SAF could always replace trouble makers/disagreeers as well so the team didn't lose too much quality as a whole, LVG has struggled so far imo because adding the "yes man" requirement to any potential signings, makes life difficult in this day and age.

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12 Aug 2015 16:20:02
im with you on the Beast good post.
Its amazing on here at times, people slate dimaria for doing what he did , but when berbatov did a nasty thing to spurs but in our favour we all laud him.
Double standards on here are incredible.
Roy Keane a much lauded player here and rightly so dragged our clubs name through the dirt and held the club to ransom and got a bigger % increase on his salary than rooney ever did, but that's forgotten as it is that he was taken out of a jail cell on the eve of a cup final by Fergie, yet Rooney is slated for holding the club to ransom and keane is some type of role model. This is the same Roy Keane that went out onto the pitch with the pre meditated thought process of ending an opponents carreer by maiming him in a tackle. We all have short memories,.
Nobody is perfect and very few have a clear history, so if posters on here are going to go down the route of personal character assinations of LVG every 2 mins I think they should be consistent in their viewpoint and don't castigate LVG for doing things that some of the posters on here have seen many other club heros before him do likewise
Vidic signed for another club while he was our playing captain, he should hve been thrown out of the club that day.
DeGea is doing far more damage to our club than dimaria and all to line his own pockets, i'd sell him for any bid just to get the greedy little dog out of the club,
Your either red or your dead IMO and if you don't want to commit then F*** off. But don't jump down the managers throat everytime he breathes, anything LVG does or has done that you don't like Fergie has done before him as have all other coaches. at least he has not slept with the physios wife yet a la Tommy Doc

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12 Aug 2015 11:53:20
on the signing side of things i must admit i'm fairly happy with what LVG has bought in, even if we don't make another signing.

yes we still have positions that need replacements but you can't fix every problem in such a short time.

for me we haven't had a midfield for a long time and i'm looking forward to being at the very least competitive in the middle of the park

i honestly cannot wait until this window shuts so we can crack on with the season and not worry about who else is needed (until january)

Believable1 Unbelievable2

12 Aug 2015 13:04:59
Good, solid signings, but we need to buy two or three TOP signings to take us to the next level to challenge. As we stand, we will not make top 4 in my opinion. The goals will be hard to come by.

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12 Aug 2015 14:14:02
Top signings are needed or it will be the battle for 3rd at best but most likely 4th. As to January , in reality there will be few if any quality players on the move.

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12 Aug 2015 14:14:12
no doubt we need more eventually but i'd honestly like to see rooney given the opportunity to play up top with a decent midfield behind him, and if after this season he has not produced then would 100% need replacing. (i'm not trying to start a rooney debate AGAIN) i just want him to have a fair crack of being our goalscorer

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12 Aug 2015 14:44:37
Understand Strebor, but if he fails or keeps scoring only in bursts , as his history shows he does, we may not make top 4. It's a big risk

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12 Aug 2015 15:02:37
very true redman but what's to say this new striker is going to come into the team and start scoring goals at the rate required of them this season anyway. surely they would need time to adapt to a new system, new team mates, possibly even a new country. it's a big risk whether you stick or twist

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12 Aug 2015 15:25:51
Strebor

Nothing in life is guaranteed except death and taxes however by buying quality we would improve our odds of getting it right

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12 Aug 2015 15:51:33
touche

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12 Aug 2015 18:48:12
Bilko,

Said that the other day, think it is, he didn't deny it then either.

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12 Aug 2015 11:43:07
Not convinced there will be any further signings despite what I have been repeatedly told by people who have more information than I do.

At best I think Pedro will be our only new signing but even that for me is not nailed on. He doesn't want to leave Barca, they don't want him to go and it doesn't seem as though Utd have actually bid for him or are in any rush to do so.

I suspect LVG thinks so highly of himself that he believes he can mould our current lot into a top quality team.

The midfield is full of quality (Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Mata, Herrera, Depay, Carrick, Young, Valencia, Januzaj, Pereira)

Both full-back positions are sorted (Darmian, Shaw)

One centre back position is sorted (Smalling)

. but the rest of the team still needs SERIOUS work/new faces!

We have no top class keeper that wants to be at the club, we have no partner for Smalling in central defence and we have no 25-30 goal a season out-and-out striker!

Early days but both City and Chelski have better squads (and Chelski have a better if very petulant manager).

It's between us Arsenal and Liverpool for the 3rd and 4th places.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

12 Aug 2015 12:00:43
The manager has stated on several occasions that he wants more pace in the attack.

would be surprised if we didn't sign another attacking player.

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12 Aug 2015 13:06:36
Bit harsh on Romero i would give him a chance to prove his talents before writing him off as not being world class

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12 Aug 2015 13:09:22
Agree Jack and more importantly, we have no out and out TOP striker, that will be our downfall this year.
People can talk as much as they want, but Rooney and Depay will only score 20 goals between them. And the other strikers, Hernandes and Wilson will not even make the teams in any top 4 side.
So LVG is in dreamland if he thinks that we will challenge with this strike force. If he wants to play this system, then we should be getting a target man to play the striker position.
I think we can almost get away with our CB deficiencies, but the striker problem is massive.

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12 Aug 2015 13:47:04
Jack,

I think we might have 2 more players in before the weekend.

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12 Aug 2015 13:50:55
Yet we don't need another striker!? But we need pace up top? He's just contradicted himself? We need ANOTHER PACEY STRIKER! And a new blinking manager!!

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12 Aug 2015 15:07:04
I thought Romero was pretty decent on Saturday, apart from the early game jitters which is quite understandable.

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12 Aug 2015 11:04:19
I know most of us don't care for the money side of transfers and I don't really either but I just want to point something out. Our Outgoing transfers this window:

Ben Amos: Free
Anderson: Free
Tom Cleverly: Free
Darren Fletcher: Free
Henriquez: £1.1m
Reece James: £1m
Janko: 20k
RVP: £4.5m
Rafael: £2.5m
Thorpe: Released
Zaha: £6m
Nani: £4.25m
Di Maria: £44m

I don't know if I have missed anyone but those fees to me are ridiculous. Bar Angel we sold our players for stupid prices and I know that some of it was to reduce wages/ end of contracts but there is a decent team buried in there!

We will probably let Evans go for less than £10m and others may leave but how can we be so poor at selling players. You don't see other big clubs selling squad players for so little. Look at Pedro for £22m compared to Nani for £4m. Are you telling me they are that different as players and I am guessing if we were buying Nani we would end up paying £15m for him.

Looking at that list I think Prem clubs would have paid a decent price for Cleverly, Nani and RVP. Henriquez could have gone for more and Zaha. We seem to be a very good buying club for other teams and a very good selling club for other teams but we don't do ourselves any justice.

Our incomings since LVG:

Di Maria: £59m
Darmian: £12m
Depay: £31m
Scniederlin: £25m
Schweinsteiger: £14.5m
Shaw: £27m
Herrera: £29m
Rojo: £16m
Blind: £14m
Valdes and Romero: Free.

We buy for too much and we sell for too little and it is poor. Something is a miss deep in our club, but it is becoming a theme for the other top clubs in England. Look at some of the transfers in Europe there are some ridiculous prices.

If Barcelona want £22m and for Pedro but we only wanted £4m for Nani then I am afraid we are the poor business men of the top clubs in Europe.

Believable2 Unbelievable5

12 Aug 2015 11:41:01
Redarmy the problem is all those players haven't really had good seasons and their wages are some of the highest in the league for their quality.

There aren't many teams out there who want United rejects who will most likely be one of the highest earners at that club.

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12 Aug 2015 11:44:11
A far point 1redarmy. Another thing to consider is that the teams interested in Nani weren't the big European clubs. Therefore to demand a higher fee would perhaps but them off. Manis wage demands were also a contributing factor. Another thing to consider is did we simply overpay for mediocre players and/or are we to blame if they don't fulfil their potential. ED001 mentioned about our coaching set being overhauled by LVG to it not being sufficient.

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12 Aug 2015 11:45:36
The issue with Nani and RVP was wages. We were paying them a massive amount and very few clubs were willing to match it. That left us with very little negotiating room, and we had to accept low fees to get them off the wage book. Cleverly held out for a free transfer because he wanted to negotiate higher wages too.

I think that selling Henriquez was a mistake and he would have proved a very useful sub, but we were lucky to get that for Zaha when he had played less than 90 min competitive football for us, and flopped on loan at Cardiff.

The truth is that we bought very poorly during Fergie's latter years and could either keep these poor players on the wage books or cut our losses.

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12 Aug 2015 12:03:30
I take your point but your analysis is way too simplistic.

First of all your suggestion seems to be that the club's executives and owners are not very astute. I have to disagree: these guys are very adept at making money both for the club and for themselves. It doesn't make sense that they are very clever commercially but get hoodwinked everytime they agree a transfer.

Secondly, you aren't taking into account the momentum of the transfer. All the purchases we have made have been driven by us; we have the demand and the selling clubs haven't necessarily wanted to meet that demand but they will at a certain price point which the club have to meet if they want that player.

If you look at the players going out, its at the Utd's instigation because the players are no longer required i.e. Utd are the driving force behind the transaction and the buying club is taking the player simply because they are value for money compared to the other options they have. It's not as though there was a bidding war for Nani or Zaha is it?

Then there are factors such as length left on the contract and very importantly the players wages. Players will be seeking parity to their current wages and because man Utd pay top dollar, these wages are often well north of the buying clubs current wage structure and what they normally pay.

For example, I think Nani is on about £125k and he has moved to Fenerbache. Let's say their top earner is on £65k a week because that's simply what the club can afford to pay. In order to make the figures add up, Fenerbache need to find an extra £60k per week or £3million per year. Say Nani is on a four year deal, that adds up to £12 million. Add on the transfer cost of £4.25 million and suddenly Nani's transfer fee as far as fenerbache are concerned is £16.25 million.

I don't know the exact figures and its a bit of a dummy illustration but I hope it makes the point.

And yes I know RVP took a £140k a week pay rise to move there as well but he's still on £110k a week and nobody was going to pay him £250k. His only options were take a pay cut or sit on the bench/play in the reserves until his contract ran out.

A further consideration is resale value. If we're buying younger players at their peak then they have an on-going resale value. If we're selling our older players who are past their peak there is little or no resale value in the fee we can expect to receive.

The final factor is form. For example when we bought van Persie he was a lean mean goal machine. By the end of last season he seems to have forgotten what a goal looks like. Is he now another Torres or can he be rejuvenated and find his forma again? Nobody knows so the buying club is taking a risk and will want the price knocked down accordingly.

I hope that helps :)

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12 Aug 2015 12:09:55
I said it last season and I will say it again, the difference between Moyes and Van Gaal in their maiden seasons was £150million.

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12 Aug 2015 12:36:33
maze
i agree moyes wanted herrera bale and fabergas, and ended up with fellaini.
them 3 would of made a difference and got us 4th place

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12 Aug 2015 12:42:43
You have all given good replies so cheers guys but then I suppose we are just bad at buying players then. Do we really have to pay every player over the odds wages or are we just not a pull anymore? We don't think about the sell on for any player and maybe that is just the mentality of the club but I think we just rely on how good we are at signing sponsorship deals as opposed to the football side.

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12 Aug 2015 13:15:51
Jred with those three players we would be better off than we are now without a doubt even if you took LVGs signings out of the equation. Wasn't it Moyes who earmarked Shaw as well?

I am by no means defending Moyes's 7th place finish but if he got Bale, Fabregas, Baines and Herrera like he wanted and continued to mature Januzaj the way he did early on I think we would have been mouthwatering to watch.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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12 Aug 2015 13:59:58
Maze. The difference is 3 places plenty of wins scored more conceded less. Stop talking shite

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12 Aug 2015 14:20:07
Maze

Why bring up one major reason why we have been in a hole and try and paint it as something it wasn't. Inadequate is all I will say and money wouldn't buy the respect needed.

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12 Aug 2015 10:11:09
So Pedro actually said the word 'no' when asked if he wanted to leave. Why are we buying a player who doesn't want to leave or is not desperate to join us? Didn't work out well last time we bought a player who didn't fully want to leave his club or join us! It's seems a little desperate on our part. If his arrival sees one of young or mata benched then I don't think it should happen personally. Be nice if we could actually prize a top class player away from a club because they wanted to join us. Be glad when this window shuts and we can concentrate on what we have, not sure it will go down as a fantastic window for us, I think darmain and shniederlin are going to be the only excellent signings made. Now better duck for cover as usual.

Believable1 Unbelievable3

12 Aug 2015 11:39:47
Pep , what do you want him t say , yes I want out I can't wait to get away ?
What happens if he then doesn't get a move from Barca ?

It's all part of the game around transfer time . Unlike Di Maria I am pretty sure Pedro if he signs will give 100 % for us

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12 Aug 2015 11:43:07
Of course he doesn't want to leave Barca, it's his only club and he most likely loves his team mates and the fans.

However from a professional view he wants to start playing more and if we offer that, he will want to come.

So overall he likely doesn't want to leave Barca, but he wants to join us for the better of his own career. Don't take it as an insult, if anything it's good that he prefers to start for us over sitting on the bench of the European Champions.

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12 Aug 2015 11:52:59
Oh no not the word 'no'!!!!!

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12 Aug 2015 12:05:27
He didn't look like a player who wanted to stay.

I suspect that he doesn't want to leave for a number of reasons; but he wants minutes on the pitch and a new challenge.

I have no doubt that if he does join our club, he will be a top player for us. He isn't made of balsa wood like that little Di marat.

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12 Aug 2015 13:15:11
I don't think he really wants to leave Barca but he wants to play regularly. I'm not aware of his contract situation, but if he asks for a transfer, will that no affect his testimonial?
I'm not his biggest admirer, so I am not fussed if he comes or not, but he was always going to say "no" to that question.
When you saw him on his own, you realize that he was sulking and was unhappy.

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12 Aug 2015 13:57:49
I'm with ed001 on Pedro.

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12 Aug 2015 08:00:38
Hey Guys,

You've most likely already seen the automatic EDs link showing when a new article is up.

Well, I've just written a long piece (as per usual) about Van Gaal and the tactical set up at the club.

I just wanted to talk about the credibility of it all a little bit.

So, for starters I've been reading the Van Gaal tactics book called "The Coaching Philosophies of Louis Van Gaal and the Ajax Coaches"

A terrific read I may add.

I've also become a qualified coach myself now, about time! - Next stop Manchester United Manager, lol.

Most importantly, When i was in Holland watching a few Ajax games and watching Cillessen in the flesh due to some old connections and friends I have out there, I met a gentleman called Maarten Meijer who shadowed Van Gaal and wrote his biography a few years ago, anyway he then introduced me to a 'friend' of his which turned out to be Gerard van der Lem (if you don't know who he is then look him up) - Anyway, god knows why he was in Amsterdam at the time but he was.

so we're all sitting their chatting, in total there are 4 of us, my friend who I grew up with, a fan of Ajax, Van Gaal's ghost writer and this absolute legend of a coach van der Lem all sitting chatting about football, families, house prices, differences in our new living cultures (2 Spanish guys living in the UK and Holland and a Dutch guy living in Turkey - being Lem).

So we soon turned to Manchester United, Van Gaal and surprisingly they all thought he would be sacked before he wins the league, I disagreed and the conversation proceeding to talk about players, why people don't like him (turns out he can get quite personal when confronted and challenged).

eventually we turn to tactics, and on a couple of napkins and an iPad they show me some interesting things about Van Gaal and the way he trains, using this method and that method, etc.

Things I have since looked out for, and have seen in our games towards the end of last season, pre-season and against Spurs - hence why I have been such a huge supporter of Van Gaal.

So there you go, I wanted to really write an article instead of just saying oh i met this guy, he told me this. etc.

I also wrote the article because I think some people don't really understand what Van Gaal is about tactically. well now you have the chance to understand.

two final things, during my little evening with these gentlemen, I was told that Van Gaal does not like big egos, he likes his players to be modest, honest human beings and players like Bale, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, etc. would never last at United. It was possibly one of the reasons Falcao was let go (not as modest as you think apparently).

The final point, is Van Gaal works in clubs where he gets full control, if he doesn't win the league this year the chances are things will tighten up at Old Trafford, if they do then Van Gaal probably won't last much longer - that's just a little bit from the conversation oh and apparently Turkey is horrific in the winter.

so there you go, check the article out (link below) from people who knew and worked with him.

The van gaal philosophy revealed

Believable3 Unbelievable0

12 Aug 2015 08:42:05
Thank you so much for your time and delightful prose - really informative and a thought-provoking read.

(So I'm guessing you think he won't sign another CB if he believes he can educate Smallibg, Jones, etc? Thing is. Are they intelligent enough to take all those tactics and processes on board? Jones still lunges after all these years and he has to abandon 3 at the back and change to 4 because the players weren't adapting. )

Do you think Pedro will fit in to what LvG wants?

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12 Aug 2015 08:42:50
Another brilliant article Moon, keep it up and get yourself on the managerial ladder, then when you finally take over at Manchester United you'll know who we want to sign 😉

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12 Aug 2015 09:06:03
Congrats on becoming a coach mate! Great article too, absolutely loved it

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12 Aug 2015 09:20:13
Great read mate.

As insightful a column I have read in I don't know how long. I thought I understood most of what Van Gaal is trying to do, but after reading this column it has me made me understand it even more.

Great work

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12 Aug 2015 09:39:14
Really enjoyed the article thanks! Did your opinion of van gaal change after speaking with them? The negativity they suggested? I think in terms of title aspirations he's a great choice of manager if he intends to step down in 2017 and retire. Whoever comes in next will be interesting but that's for another day.

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12 Aug 2015 09:40:25
Wonderful piece Jose, thanks for sharing and keep them coming.
On another note, do you really think Lem is a Legend of a coach? Will you put him in the same league as:
Happel, Lippi, Lattek, G. Trap, Paisley, those 2 Celtic and Rangers coaching greats, let alone Hitzfeld, Mou and Fergie. I personally wouldn't put him in the same league as Tomislav Ivic even. But then again i am no coaching expert hence the need for your input. :)

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mbd              

12 Aug 2015 10:25:26
Best post I have ever read from this site.

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12 Aug 2015 10:33:53
Brilliant post moon, just need to find some time to read the article. Congrats on becoming a coach, realistically, what's the goal now? If you don't mind me asking.

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12 Aug 2015 11:21:55
Absolutely cracking article the problem LVG has is some of our squad do not appear tactically astute enough to play with so much thought. But reading this has opened a bit of insight into what he's trying to achieve, I personally don't think this group of players are capable of carrying out his philosophy, then you see clever players like Silva and Hazard and wonder just how good they would become under LVG.

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12 Aug 2015 11:32:37
Good read, Moon. Find it ironic that he doesn't like big egos in his players, though :)

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12 Aug 2015 11:48:07
Wallace,

Thanks for taking the time out to read it, I appreciate it.

I think Van Gaal would certainly want another central defender but I don’t think he looks at things and freaks out because we haven’t got one, much like we would all like another winger I don’t think he see’s it as 100% needed.

I think Pedro is a player who suits a possession patient based system, plays in the half spaces and understands what is needed of him roughly, is he a world-beater? Certainly not. So yes, I expect him to join in with the squad and I can see him rotating with Young and become the half zone player for the other side which Van Gaal wants.

--

Tommy,

Thank you very much, I’m hoping to really get involved with it over the next few months before eventually taking over at Manchester United and ending my career at Getafe ;).

RedAndy,

Thank you for reading it! I aim to please.

Angelred,

There is still much to learn about Van Gaal, but after reading it I hope you can see why Mata is used out wide, etc.

Mrs Doubtfire,

I wouldn’t say my opinion changed, as a person I never had an opinion so I may be more influenced in thinking he does whatever it takes to get his way, which I can understand although not agree with perhaps.

As a manager by opinion of him grew stronger, perhaps he won’t win a league title, perhaps he will, I couldn’t tell you and they were giving their opinion based on the how poor the team was looking at the time and how Van Gaal coaches or should I say the type of player he needs to coach, finding athletic players to suit the league and have the intelligence levels required is a very rare thing in the Premier League.

I think we’re all in denial, but the next manager at Manchester United is going to be Ryan Giggs.

MBD,

Thank you for your kind words,

I have heard a lot that Lem was crucial to the Ajax 1996 team and was highly thought of at Barcelona.

He’s never managed a huge team so it is hard to say, but as a coach I believe he’s certainly a legend. He came across a hugely intelligent man (I’ve met a lot of British and Spanish coaches in my time and none of them seemed to grasp the game as well as him), his career is coming to an end so I wouldn’t sit him with the likes of Lippi, Paisley, etc. on a success level but certainly on an intelligence level.

I think if Giggs got offered the Wales job tomorrow, and we appointed Van Der Lem as the right hand man to Van Gaal again then I would extremely happy with that.

It is also said that Van Der Lem is the only man who got away with questioning Van Gaal often. So I think that tells you all you need to know about the sort of man he is.

Lovely chap though.

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12 Aug 2015 11:49:52
Great article. Very good read.

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12 Aug 2015 12:07:00
A brilliant well written read which has helped me better understand van Gaal and his decision making.

I still don't agree with everything he does but at least I understand his motivations more now.

'The Coaching Philosophies of Louis Van Gaal and the Ajax Coaches' sounds like the perfect book for The Beast

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12 Aug 2015 12:27:22
TOT66 - That's a huge compliment, thank you very much.

Anon - I plan to move into coaching at a couple of non-league sides and see what happens. I've spent a lot of my life interested in American Football and as such I see football in the same light, step by step players, and my coaching style is very similar to American Football coaching. I over analyse everything, film training sessions, review them, etc.It's a passion of mine, so I'm hoping that the effort I put in could lead me into coaching a league side one day (I HOPE!)

Jaimej79 - I completely agree, I can count 10/11 out of 25 players that I would consider intelligent. Darmian, Smalling, Schweinsteiger, Carrick, Schneiderlin, Valencia, Depay, Rooney, Mata, Herrera & Blind.

Now consider that 4 of those are approaching or in their 30's. that's 6 or 7 players out of 25 who are capable of understanding.

However, if Van Gaal got his first choice players you would have; DDG, Coleman, Hummels, Ramos, Shaw, Gundogan, Carrick, Bale, Depay, Muller & Rooney. (Which is a very intelligent XI).

Noucamp99, Big Egos don't like Big Egos, it's an alpha male thing haha. I find it surprising that he has no issues getting personal. there is a 'rumour' that Van Gaal clashed with Di Maria and used the burglary to win the argument, from that Di Maria lost faith. I don't think or know if it's true, but I could imagine it certainly.

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12 Aug 2015 12:39:44
Andrew B & RedAtHeart,

Thanks guys! it's appreciated.

I actually agree with all of it, I just think he's at the wrong team haha in terms of personnel.

If Beast ever read that book, he'd still kick off about it, it was written in 2003? I believe so a lot of what you read is the expansive scoring stuff, and not the cautious approach adopted after his spell at AZ

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12 Aug 2015 12:40:20
Thank you Jose.

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mbd              

12 Aug 2015 12:39:56
Brilliant piece Moon, I have shared it on another forum I read too. It was too good not to share.

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12 Aug 2015 13:45:33
Moon big thanks for the post. Greatly insightful on "The system" and the man himself. Top lunch time read.

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12 Aug 2015 07:39:52
I'm still not sold on the idea of Pedro. I appreciate he is a good player with pace who can play on either wing, however, I just don't think he's the right player for the Premier League. Some people think great players will flourish in any league but I don't believe that. To play in England you need to have a bit more physicality than most leagues, technical ability isn't quite as important than it is in Spain or Germany.

I can't shake the feeling Pedro will be another Jesus Navas but probably with a few more goals. The reason for this is that raw pace is a great attribute but Pedro is pretty slight in build and while he will no doubt show bits of brilliance he will also likely be in a defender's pocket in quite a few games. Even against someone who's not great defensively but is quite physical I feel Pedro will struggle. Yes he will probably fly past a couple of players in an Aaron Lennon sort of way but one of the main reasons he was successful is because of who is around him at Barca and the space that allows him to exploit.

I'm always wary of what a Barca player will do when they leave as leaving a team who have 70% every week and are beating that lower teams in the league by 5/6 goals a lot of the time, to then join any side in the Premier League where no game is a stroll is a massive change. He will have to adapt to LVG's style which at the moment consists of possession without much intent. The best sides can play quickly when they need to and can create space for each other. We rarely see quick passes and interchanges between our players now and it's even rarer to see a player swap positions or take a risk.

Will Pedro be a great signing? I'm still on the fence and if he is signed I hope I'm proven wrong but I'd personally rather see us spend the extra £20-25m and go for Reus or spend around the same and go for Domenico Berardi.

Believable3 Unbelievable3

12 Aug 2015 08:05:57
What will Pedro really bring to United when LVG tells him not to run with the ball, take two touches and make an easy pass?

That is the question.

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12 Aug 2015 08:19:28
What are reus and berardi's premier league experience?

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12 Aug 2015 08:30:08
I've not said anything about experience GDS. It's down to what players will fit in and have an impact in our league. Berardi and Reus would in my opinion be able to deal with the physical nature of the league better than Pedro. They offer the same qualities as Pedro but are in my opinion more likely to succeed.

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12 Aug 2015 09:00:58
I think people are looking far too much into the 'not allowed to run or be free'.

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12 Aug 2015 09:21:34
Giggs was only a slight build but he seemed to manage ok.

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12 Aug 2015 09:28:07
Navas' stats were poor even before the prem i'm convinced he was bought for his speed alone

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12 Aug 2015 09:42:00
I'd be happy with "a Navas with a few more goals" for 22m.

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mbd              

12 Aug 2015 02:45:18
If anyone would have asked me to go all out for one player of my choice, it'd have been Luka Modric. Absolute beast. One of my favorite players. I always feel like we missed out on him. He is one player I'd have wanted us to break the bank for.

Believable4 Unbelievable4

12 Aug 2015 07:25:05
Agree Redatheart. When he was at Spurs he was made to replace Scholes. Best in the world at what he does.

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11 Aug 2015 21:45:03
Pedro at £22 million or just under would be a very good deal. He would definitely add another dimension to our side. Hopefully we could get a deal done. Revert to a 433 formation and use the wings more.

ED001 what are your thoughts on Pedro and whether or not you think he would be a good signing, as you give a balanced view

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{Ed001's Note - I think he would be better than either Young or Mata out wide, but that is as far as it goes. He is another Di Maria, a headless chicken who does a lot of aimless running about and lacks the intelligence to know when and where to run. He couldn't hold down a place before Neymar Jr arrived, even when the option bought to play in that position, Afellay, was out injured constantly. He is not a Bojan, who was directly competing for the Messi role, he was simply not good enough to provide any more than an injection of pace at the end of games. If he had not come through the ranks there, he would have been long gone, as not one manager saw him as any more than a surplus player, for good reason. He is an impact sub, nothing more. Even then, it will only be sometimes that he provides a good impact. If he had left Barca 5 years or so ago, he might have developed into a good player, but right now he is just thought as good because he is at Barca, in the same way Di Maria must have been great because he was at Real Madrid.

He will have a flurry of good games, everyone will get excited and then he will be worked out by opponents and he simply does not have the intelligence or ability to deal with it. If it was me, I would say United should steer well clear, he is a midtable Prem player, at best. For me, if you are aiming to build a side to win the title, then look elsewhere. If you want a top four place, then he will probably do.}

12 Aug 2015 06:08:38
A lot of nonsense, Ed. Pedro is far better player than you're saying he is. Look at the amount and quality of games he played for Barca since 2009. And he DID hold a regular place before Neymar high-price transfer was done. Even if he ends up at another club, not United, he'll be a very very good buy and at £22m will be a bargain.

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{Ed001's Note - sorry but you are giving an opinion, not talking facts, he has never been a regular starter and so please do not try and argue with that. As for quality of games, he has almost always done nothing when he started a game and been widely criticised for it. In 2009/10, he played 90 minutes just 15 times in total, in 59 games. 18 times in 2010/11 (well one 120 minutes including extra time), in well over 50 games again. Just 12 times in 2011/12, again in over 50 matches. I got bored then, but I think my point is made, you are wrong, he is an impact sub in the main or taken off when he starts after playing crap. He is not worth 22m, he is a very average player who just happens to be quick, which he will lose in a few years and lose his usefulness as an impact sub.}

12 Aug 2015 06:27:17
Ed001

Thank you , that is a better explanation than I have added and more detail yet is pretty much my thoughts as well. I said on here he is not the answer and if we buy him we would still need a top striker. Probably our Navas if we indeed buy him.

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{Ed001's Note - useful if you had the team built and just needed cover, but you aren't there yet.}

12 Aug 2015 07:39:12
ED001 - you have hit the nail on the head for me mate. Pedro is a decent player but that's as far is it goes. He isn't WC and never will be. You are right that he is a player capable of helping a team get top four but he is not a player capable of taking games by the scruff of the neck and winning them by himself.

I have always liked him as he does try hard and has been a loyal servant to his club but I think he is overhyped because he is a Barca player. Is Pedro going to take United to another level like Silva has done for City, Hazard for Chelsea or Alexis for Arsenal? I don't think so. We should be aiming for better in my opinion.

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12 Aug 2015 07:40:32
Since 2009/2010 season Pedro's lowest amount of appearances (in all comps) is 45 in a season. But who am I? I bet Firmino is a quality buy tho isn't he? Don't worry I'm sure it's your year again

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{Ed001's Note - what the hell has Firmino got to do with anything? What an imbecilic comment, typical of the kind of stupidity that is why Ed002 doesn't want to bother with this site, because tits like you can't just take a post at face value. You have to be an arse and try and make it something it is not. It is idiots like you that just make the internet hard work. You could have made a point and left it at that, but instead you choose to be a complete tit. Don't bother replying to me again, I have no interest in talking to imbeciles like you.}

12 Aug 2015 07:40:52
Ed , you say he's just a mid table prem player at best . How many mid table prem players would have made even one appearance for the Barca side of the last seven or eight years not to mention the Spanish side of the same period ?

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{Ed001's Note - in the manner he has? Plenty if they had happened to come through the Barca youth system. That is why he is there and getting games. It is better to compare it to the likes of Cleverley, who kept getting appearances even though he clearly wasn't good enough, purely because he came through the youth teams.}

12 Aug 2015 07:42:07
My thoughts too. I've always thought he's a decent player but he's not the best out there. I would rather buy greizman or Reus any day.
And he's come out and said he doesn't want to leave so hope we stay clear.

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12 Aug 2015 07:43:28
Fully agree Ed. Juice ain't worth the squeeze! I have always thought he was an average winger with an overhyped reputation based on barca and being Spanish.
Looking at our staring 11 it's obvious we need to add a top class attacker, not more squad level players. We have that in our youth and young. Pedro isn't the answer to our "creativity" problem and won't significantly impact our goal production. Almost seems to me as a buy for the sake of buying type of signing. Hope that whoever mentioned city are sniffing around for him are correct!

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12 Aug 2015 07:44:38
I don't really know a great deal about pedro so ed001 is clearly more clued up about him than I am so who am I to argue but the one thing he does add is goals which has got to be a big plus point albeit he's got to be able to do it in the prem.

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{Ed001's Note - I agree he can add goals, as an impact sub in particular, but will he add anything like as many without the space created by Iniesta and Messi etc? I don't think he will, as he will actually be targeted by defenders in England, rather than being the player they leave as they are busy swarming Messi etc.}

12 Aug 2015 07:50:08
Cheers ED001 insightful as ever

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12 Aug 2015 07:51:10
He isn't your tier 1 winger - Reus,Bale, Hazard etc but he's the next rung down in my view. As good as most of the wingers in this league. Obviously has inflated stats due to playing in that team but I wouldn't say he's the headless chicken running about like Di Maria. If you watch Barca he's very good at sticking to the role given to him which will suit LVG nicely.

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12 Aug 2015 08:45:33
Comments like that are why people stop posting, u can call people all u want but someone says something back n u see your arse, typical spoilt brat, *rest of abuse removed*

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{Ed001's Note - no, it is because bells like you try and belittle our opinion based on what team we support and think that is the basis of a discussion. Rather than making a point and leaving it at that. Now run along child and don't worry, no one will miss you, or your knuckles dragging.}

12 Aug 2015 08:54:11
Ed , you think Cleverley would have won over 50 caps for Spain at a time when they were the best international team in the world . How many other promising young players have come through the ranks at Barca and never played anything like the games Pedro has .
Plus the fact that Cleverley got so many games for United said more about the quality of our midfield than anything else

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{Ed001's Note - he won international caps for England did he not? And where they based on his ability or the team he played for? Now if he had happened to be, say for instance, Wayne Rooney's best mate, as Pedro is with Xavi and Iniesta, would he have not carried on getting games? Plus the fact he does what Messi says without question helps keep him at the club. Oh and the fact he is not on the huge wages and doesn't have to be bought at a fee, with Barca always strapped for cash due to the big transfers they keep making, it all adds up to a good reason to keep him. Barca do not have the largest squad either, so they do not have a huge amount of options, other than Pedro, to bring off the bench.}

12 Aug 2015 09:07:50
Ed
I agree he is not wc but don't you think that among the players available he'll be one that will suit lvg's style of play. Especially compared to adm. The only thing i disagree with is that i think he's very intelligent.

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{Ed001's Note - one of his former coaches once compared him, to me, to a young child overhyped on sweets (he named a Spanish sweet but I forget what it was). He basically said that was the problem, he just wasn't capable of settling down and thinking about his runs and timing them. He would just run around, a lot, with little thought involved. So I am clearly not the only one who thinks he has a problem with that.}

12 Aug 2015 09:24:59
Good point Red Rosie. In this Man Utd side and the way Van Gaal wants his players to play he will do very nicely. I thought Ed001's assessment a tad bit harsh on Pedro.

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12 Aug 2015 09:38:20
I think everyone is giving an opinion here, Ed, don't think you are something more than other writers, or am I wrong ? I'd like to know where you got those numbers for Pedro's career, because my numbers are completely different.

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{Ed001's Note - so why did you call mine nonsense then? If it was just everyone giving an opinion, why did you feel the need to insult rather than just disagree? And I got those numbers directly from Barcelona, his competitive numbers for full games played and double checked with a couple of stats sites. Unless I miscounted, those were his full games each season. He played a large number of other games, but was usually hooked off when he started or used from the bench, when he made the squad.}

12 Aug 2015 09:51:49
Ha . I knew the Cleverley won caps for England was on the way , a dog with a hammer up his hole could win caps for England

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{Ed001's Note - I know that, but I was just pointing out that sometimes a player can get caps he doesn't deserve based on who he plays for and with. Pedro is a far better player than Cleverley, that is definite. Is he good enough for United is the real question, and I am not sure he is, though he is an improvement on what is there right now.}

12 Aug 2015 09:54:46
When he turns us down as goes to city and we end up with gaitan use will all be giving woody abuse for not getting the deal done .

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12 Aug 2015 10:08:37
I didn't mean to inslut and I didn't see you refer to full 90 mins. And not playing full 90mins. every time doesn't mean you are a bad player. I'm pretty sure many good players get substitute many times. And J.Barton playing full 90 mins. every game doesn't mean he is a top player. We can argue all day long, but you can mail me to talk about Pedro when the season is done if he joins Man United to see who was right.

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{Ed001's Note - I know it doesn't necessarily mean it means you are crap, I was just saying it is a concern. I am sure you will point it out if I am wrong at the end of the season, though I wouldn't write him off after one, even if his first season is poor, unless he moves on afterwards.}

12 Aug 2015 10:37:26
i think he is a decent player who will add pace and 22mill is about right.
players roles seem quite restricted to me , so someone like pedro may do well under lvg where he has a simple job to do .
much in the same way young has done well.

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12 Aug 2015 11:20:07
Thanks for all your reasoned input Ed001 - much appreciated.

However, while he may not be a Reus or Hazard, I think he'll fit nicely into LvG's system of two attacking wing-forwards supplying a central striker. He'll also be protected by two excellent full backs so might often be two against one on each wing.

After reading this thread, Just goes to show what a waste of money Di Maria was though!

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12 Aug 2015 11:31:11
ED001 you killed all my excitement towards signing Pedro mate.

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{Ed001's Note - I could be wrong mate, until they move it is only educated guesswork really. At the end of the day, even if he was just an impact sub, those can make the difference and be heroes, just ask Ole.}