Manchester United Banter Archive March 12 2013

 

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12 Mar 2013 23:18:48
Theres been mumblings over the past few weeks of maybe selling Hernandez and Valencia. This to be honest makes me kind of sad. I'll be the first to admit that they have faults in their game, and they have areas they need to improve. But what I find shocking is how quick people are prepared to turn on them and boot them out either because their form has dropped off or because there is a flash big name player batting their eye lashes in our direction.

I'll start with Valencia who has lost his way since the start of the season. Now people are saying he has lost a yard of pace since his injury, this is absurd. He was one of our best players last season AFTER his injury.
He maybe suffering from the pressure of wearing the number 7 but again i'd have thought not, he asked for it. He felt good enough for it when he asked for it so I see no reason why it would be weighing heavy on his shoulders now.
What I think is effecting him is this back trouble which stems from one leg being shorter than the other since his injury, it didn't effect him straight away after his injury but over time since it has slowly gave him pain with his back. It is this which is robbing him of his pace and effecting his crossing atm.
Now it is important that before you cast judgement on him you should consider his character. Here is a player who sacked his agent as he felt he didn't need one because he is commited to the club, his attitude if first class both on the training field on the pitch and off it. The way he battled back from such an injury and his form last season after it are testament to his attitude and work rate. And now because this player has had one bad year out of four at the club and you wanna stab him in the back and get shot of him.

His back problem can be over come with medical science and hard work and him and the club are working toward this, I think he deserves his chance to try and our support for a player who has been a credit to our club and our traditions. It sickens me when people call him a disgrace to the shirt or the worst No. 7 in our history. I think it shows a lot about the character and values of someone who would prefer a flash flare player over an honest hard working and loyal one.

Now we move onto Hernandez. He always plays with a smile on his face and he is equally as hard working as Valencia. You can see how much more he has added to his game in the last two and a half years, and appreciate how much hard work he has put in to achieve those improvements. He is a goal machine and he is adding more understanding to his game along with better vision passing and tracking back when needed. Add this to his pace and his finishing ability then we have a very good player on our hands. Now people seem far too kean to kick him out the door to bring in Lewandowski. Now i'm not saying Lewandowski is a bad player infact I think he is a very good player, but he has his faults in his game which I think people are far to quick to over look as they want a flash new player. First off he is a very selfish player, Kagawa has even commented so. Plus he is a form player, by that I mean his form peaks and dips. Abit like Rooney's does, you never know which Lewandowski is going to turn up. He is still young and learning so these aren't flaws that can't be ironed out but they should be considered.

Personally I think Hernandez is the better finisher of the two but Lewandowski is a better all round player. So imo they are about equal in ability. So if they are matched in ability then the only thing that can set them apart is their attitude, Robert has been known to have abit of a temper on him while Hernandez is a happy chappy. This might not sound too important but when you consider it's a squad game one player will be better for maintaining a happy squad. Lewandowski will also expect to be first choice, where as Hernandez is happier with being rotated more. Hernandez has a high work rate and a first class attitude with training where as Lewandowski was reported to be a bad trainer in his early days in Poland, there hasn't been anything mentioned since his move to Germany but it is something to consider.

So in summery Hernandez is the better finisher but Lewandowski the slightly better all round player. Hernandez also has the better attitude. The last thing to consider is adaptablity, Lewandowski didn't set the world alight in his first year in Germany having moved from Poland which has a simliar style of football to Germany even if it is at a far lesser standard, where as Hernandez got 20 goals in his first year in England having moved from a lesser league half around the world into a new and completely culture.

Remember Dzeko was a beast in Germany and he has stuggled in England and Kagawa is taking time to adapt, I wouldn't expect Lewandowski to hit the ground running in England, now imagin if at the start of next season if RVP has a serious injury who would you rather have to step in, an already adapted and improving Hernandez who is garrenteed goals or the new to this league and previously stuggled to adapt Lewandowski?

Food for thought I hope.

Believable30 Unbelievable2

Top post I've raised a few of them points myself and couldn't agree more

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Good post Shappy quite agree, but in the case of Valencia we either need to find a way round it or he may not recover

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We are working with Valencia on looking at trying to sort the problem. Atm were trying different insoles and the like but the issue is that its trial and error and it takes weeks at a time with each new insole to find out if its working. Plus were altering his training to try and help. But it takes time.

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I definitely don't want to see hernandez go as he is a top player and he should be getting a lot more starts ahead of Rooney. I sincerely hope Ferguson does not make another mistake and let him go.
As for Valencia, he is a one footed player and always has been. On his day he can do a good job against lesser left backs, but now he has lost pace he offers nothing at all. He's a team player and top man, but he has to go. No room for sentiment.
Nomidfield

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Actually Valencia and Chicha are my two favourite united players.

While I do think that Lewandowski is a better player ( he is much better with the ball and in the air ) I would rather have Hernandez. The rate at which he is improving is quite frightening and I don't think it will stop. I see him becoming like solskajer, ironing out the flaws in his game and improving with time.

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Good post and some interesting points.

I'm with Pardoe on this one - I love Hernandez and would like him to stay (the grass isn't always greener i. e. big Lew) but I do worry for Valencia's form. I think he was starting to be worked out last season, I just hope he regains that burst of pace or confidence soon.

Shappy, I take it you are confident that this back/leg issue is true then regarding Valencia? I hadn't seen any official confirmation or anything.

HBadger

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13 Mar 2013 13:48:19
Well it seems to have substance, plus I saw him putting insoles into his boots on the side of the pitch (i can't remember which game it was). So I would say it is true. The club won't want to publicise any problem he is suffering as it would certainly deter some bidders thus driving the price down if we were to sell him.

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Cheers Shappy, I guess there must be some truth to it then. Let's hope there is something that can be done as he's such a model professional and a good guy.

HBadger

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12 Mar 2013 23:15:19
I feel a lot better that barca won tonight. When we played Real, I thought the winner will had a good chance of winning the Cl because I thought barca will be knocked out.
But after tonight's performance, it might have been a blessing. We need to raise our midfield and tactics to near Barca's if we are to compete with the top teams. They tore Milan to pieces.
If we want to move on and improve as a club and a team, then we have to adapt our play.
Over to you saf!

Believable5 Unbelievable5

12 Mar 2013 21:21:35
Who else thing K. P. Boateng would be a good signing, can play anywhere from CM to a striker if needed, nt just saying this because he's playing he's always been a player I've been a fan of. He's a player who can get the team going and gets up and down the field, not saying its going to happen but I'd love to see him at united.

Believable2 Unbelievable15

He was average at Portsmouth. No thanks.

#ags

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I think he looks very good in the slower paced Italian league but is just a good player in the faster harder Premier league. He isn't better than what we have nor does he offer anything different.

Good player but probably not quite what we need.

Now El Shaarawy looks about their best talent and the one i'd go for out of the two.

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He's a significant downgrade from both Rooney and Kagawa. He is rubbish in the centre of midfield, and only plays well as an attacking midfielder. Plus with an attitude to rival Balotelli, I can't see us signing him.

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Bojan looked good when he came on

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I despair with some views here, boateng at united? Do we want to be average or do we want to compete with the best? We keep saying we are one of the top three clubs in the world, well let's start acting like it.
Non of the second rate players people go on about, if we want top midfielders then let's modric, goetz, ozil. If we want top striker then let's get falcao, wingers let's try for cr7 or bale, likewise in defense we can try for hummels or garay.
So before people start talking about fantasy football, I'm afraid if we want the top players we have to pay fantasy football prices. Otherwise, let's just admit we can no longer compete and get on with trying to win the premiership every year which is not as difficult as winning the CL.
thank you.

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I know this might sound odd given that he missed a sure goal that could have changed the outcome of the game but the 18 year old striker that Milan has not Elsharawy will be some player in a few years. For his age and size, he is a top talent.

Shahram

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Noname - Going out and buying a fantasy team has never been the United way, and we haven't done too badly.

Yes, there have been times when we've spent big on a certain player, but our ethos since the days of Sir Matt, has always been about developing and encouraging our own youth players.

We coped with Chelsea, and we're coping with City this season. We were also coping with Madrid too.

A successful football team is the sum of it's parts, and it is dependent on much more than just buying every top player around - assuming they would come here in the first place.

Madrid did that, won a couple of titles, but masssively under-achieved in Europe for years.

Accept the reality of the situation, rather than living in a dream-world, and you might actually start to enjoy supporting United and all it stands for.

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Totally agree with StevieK, noname did you just start supporting United yesterday or something? When did we ever build our success from buying galactico's?

HBadger

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Steviek
I think you raise a good point, some people seem to spend more time dreaming about signing this star player or that star player that you wonder if they enjoy wAtching United and appreciate what we got.
If the next 2 transfer Windows were cancelled I think some fans would get bored and do something else

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Agree with that jred - some people seem more interested in signing foreign talents than seeing what we can do with what we already have.

I also dispair slightly when I see a list of 7 'ins' and 7 'outs' by people trying to find the perfect squad. All squad's have imperfections, the main thing is knowing what they are and finding a way to cope with them (e. g. lack of a tough tackler in CM). We tend to evolve gradually under SAF and I don't see a reason for that changing this summer.

HBadger

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12 Mar 2013 20:16:18
Eds/any1
Is there a chance we could convince barca to sell fabregas? And then convince the lad to sign for us? And before the standard 'no way' or 'he loves arsenal' replies, he did consider a move to Madrid if barca didn't come up with a bid that would match his price tag.
Just he is getting stick from the barca fans, not playing as much in his favoured position etc.
Chris the REDman {Ed004's Note - I don't think he would be sold and not sure I'd want him here there are better out there and he seems to prefer playing further forward. We need someone to sit beside Carrick and help him out}

Believable2 Unbelievable2

Not good enough. plus not what we need.

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I think he's a very good player, and he is only. playing more forward because he can't get in the deep lying role over xavi
Chris the REDman {Ed004's Note - But didn't he usually have someone beside him who wasn't afraid to put the boot in beside him? Ie song etc}

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No name

Fabragas not good enough? Aye right glad you aren't a manager, one of the worst statements I've heard on here

He would walk into any team in the world, the problem is shifting xavi and iniesta at barca which no one will do, if he became available we should be very interested but can't see him leaving barca

Giants14

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Would the argument against Fabregas not be the same against Modric?

I think we need a stronger player than either of them. I note Modric scores for Madrid, has a good 20 mins and is suddenly linked with us

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Yes I think flamini for a season, song for 1-2 and Gilberto silva for 1-2 seasons, not exactly midfield hard men but not bad players either.
Imo if we put a Strootman or bender next to him it could be very good.
Chris the REDman {Ed004's Note - I can only see 1 midfield signing though}

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Red man, I think Modric has been linked with us for a bit longer than a good 20 minute spell.

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Giants14,

I like that you say no name made the worst statement ever but follow it up by saying Fabregas would walk into any team in the world. except the one he is actually signed for!

Sorry, know what you are saying it just made me chuckle.

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StevieK

Modric was linked before his move to Madrid but I don't recall any further link until after last weeks game.

Red Man

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Red Man - it was the use of the word 'suddenly', as if he'd only popped onto the radar because he played well last week.

The suggestion seemed to be that some of us are suffering from MOTD fever, when we were hoping all last summer that he would come here, when it became obvious he was leaving Spurs.

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Fabregas plays the exact same role as Modric but is younger and imo more talented. Neither are getting into the first team at their respective clubs as much as they'd like but Fabregas has the excuse of having Xavi and Iniesta in his way. The difference between the two imo is Fabregas can see light at the end of the tunnel, Xavi is 33 and Iniesta will be 29 by the end of the season. So there will be more oppertunities over the coming seasons. Plus you have to consider that Fabregas is playing for his boyhood club so will be prepared to wait for his chances and will will things while doing so.

Modric how ever doesn't appear to be in Mourinho's plans as a first choice option and with Madrids track record of managers will he get the chance when the new manager comes in, he is finding it hard to adapt to the Spanish culture and way of life and the fans seem to be turning on him.
So he could potentially be be tempted to join us.

As for people saying that we need to sign a "hard man" type player to play along side him, I don't think we do. Modric is a more talented version of Cleverley who plays well along side Carrick currently so Modric would just be an upgrade on a current working model.

I don't think there is much space left in football for a hard man type player anyway, now midfielders need to be more flexible and able to change tact within a game, Midfeilders now need to be an all rounder. They need to be great passers, good tacklers, have vision and ablity to read the game, they need to be able to dribble and drive forward with the ball and able to drop off and defend and make interceptions.

With all that being said I expect to see little Luka back in the premier league again next season, some say he could be used as bait for Bale. B*****ks imo, Modric fell out with Levy over leaving the club and they ended up not talking, so I really can't see Levy welcoming him back with open arms while losing his best player. Other people say he could be a target for us, personally I don't see it. Madrid will want close to 30m for a player who'll be 28. I can't see us spend so much on a player of that age. Then there is the point that I feel we need someone who offers more of a "presence" in midfield.

I expect Luka to end up at Chelsea, they have the cash to spend on him, he would prefer to move to a London club and Chelsea will be looking for a replacement for Lampard who will be departing in the summer. Not only do they need to replace Lampard on the field but they need to sign someone who the fans will appreciate as Lamps is a firm fan favourite. that's why I think Modric fits the bill perfectly at Stamford Bridge.

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Well if 1 midfield signing is the only one in that area maybe he's not right for us now as we have carrick. Out of interest how much do u expect to be spent on the midfield area? I can see valencia being moved maybe to back up right back, Nani going, Young staying and 1 of Rooney or Hernandez to leave too (expect it to be hernandez).
So all in all maybe we can raise up to 50m in sales (50m if rooney was to go and not hernandez) and with the usual 50m budget we seem to have we could have quite a bit to strengthen a few area's. Now since Modric seem more 'avilable' than others i'd go,
Modric/Strootman-17-30m
Lewi-20-25m
Bender-20m
Now that leaves up to 25m which 'im guessing Syd will now say will be spent on wages/fee's etc so would u be happy with that?

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The usual £50M budget, where do you get that from and define 'usual'.

AJH

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Fabergas not good enough? Apart from carrick, he's head and shoulders above all the midfielders we've got.
Nomidfield

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Ok AJH, so how much do YOU think we spend each summer then?Since u wanna argue this figure.
Chris the REDman

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I think its pointless trying to put a figure on how much we will spend. Quite simply that's just not how it works. The board don't go to Sir Alex and go heres 50m spend it on whoever you want. The board will always do their best to release the funds for the right players. If the right players aren't available then the funds stay in the bank, we don't sign players for the sake of it, or spend to a budget. This is why ed002 has no interest talking about money as its not as important as most think. So forget about how much were going to spend and look at who is most likely or who is best.

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Fair enuff, it just seems that every summer we spend around that mark recently that was the point.
Chris the REDman

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Shappy is right on the budget issue (of course lol) but I'd like to add - we have hardly ever spent £50m net on transfers in one window. The last 2 summers have come relatively close but before then our average net spend was a lot lower. I see lots of people assuming that we will spend at a similar rate to the last 2 summers for ever more but I don't think that's necessarily the case.

HBadger

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I would say shappy is bang on the money again,
On a bit of a roll

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Call 999 because The Shapster is on fire! ; )

HBadger

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12 Mar 2013 17:59:15
WILL KEANE.

Before this lad got injured I genuinely expected him to play a part in this seasons team.

now assuming the injury hasn't effected him to badly an he returns to United the same player then what do we think about his future?

I think he's too good a player to just let leave, He's a bigger talent in front of goal than Welbeck and more rounded in terms of playing roles than Hernandez.

I genuinely believe that if Keane comes back and is the same player he was before then he is only behind Van Persie and Rooney.

Obviously this is just my opinion on the lad and he won't actually be 3rd choice (I just think he's good enough to be).

Anyway, with Van Persie, Hernandez, Welbeck, Possibly Rooney and Possibly Lewandowski where do we see his United Future?

In fact it was only last year we were saying Michael Keane won't make it and Will Keane will make it, now it seems as if we may have got this the wrong way round.

ED, what do you think about Keanes United future?

Have a good evening. {Ed004's Note - I haven't seen enough to judge Moon}

Believable1 Unbelievable4

Letss hope your right fella I thought he impressed in him plappernce gainst blackburn I think him and henriquez hopefully have an impact on the 1st team in the next 18 months

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I've not seen enough of him to judge his quality but if he's good enough he will go out on loan, probably to the Championship first then maybe to an EPL team. Then he will be given a chance in the first team in 12-24 months time IMO. Seems like the usual route for our promising youngsters. With that being the case we wouldn't have to worry about where he 'fits in' yet as much will change in the next 2 seasons.

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Talk about putting pressure on the lad Moon!

He had a career threatening injury that only 10-15 yeras ago would have been a career ender.

I think he's had some sort of setback as well as originally it was being talked of (by Will himself) that he was originally targeting a comeback for the new year.

Now their talking about either a few minutes in one of the last reserve games of the season or just a clean slate in July.

it'll take him a good half a season to come back from this into some sort of fitness so I don't see him going anywhere for awhile yet as we'll want to assess his fitness. Maybe a loan in January, more likely summer 2014.

I think for Will that will be the key season as by the end of that season (2015) I expect both Rooney & Hernandez will both have departed leaving a space for will/ Henriquez/ Whatever other wonderkid we sign.

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Agree wiv Gav, he will go out on loan for a season. I've seen lots of him in the last couple of seasons on MUTV, where he has stood out. But then again so did Macheda. We need to see how he gets on at a club like Wigan or Sunderland for a season. It's a hard call to make when we will probo sign Lewandowski.

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He will be a late bloomer so to speak. Won't see him til he's 22ish.

Sydney!

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Yeh sorry I meant 12-24 months from when he's fully up and running BTW

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Will Keane is a good footballer with a good football brain. I felt he was a little Sheringham like which is a compliment.
My concern before his injury was his lack of pace and he has now suffered a serious knee injury which can take half a yard off someone's pace.
He is young so his recovery may not be too bad but whilst he is a good footballer the standard is very very high in striking positions and many spend time berating Rooneys lack of pace so we should equally be concerned at Will Keanes lack of pace.
We will see how he develops but don't expect too much and hope we are pleased in say three years.

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He'll never make it at united, sorry.

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"He'll never make it at united, sorry. "

You should be sorry - for that comment. Give the lad a chance you melonhead!

HBadger

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Thanks for the replies guys.

Mort, I'm fairly sure I'm not the only guy to praise him.

I do agree that he'll be a late bloomer because this injury has potentially put him 12-18 months behind if you take into account him getting back into the swing of things.

In terms of his pace, well although it can be an issue it doesn't have to be,. I could name you a good few decent strikers who don't have pace but who also score bags of goals; Jordan Rhodes, Van Persie, Van Nistelrooy, Del Piero, Raul, Inzaghi, Berbatov, the King, etc.

Point is, if he has the technique more often than not then surely pace won't be an issue.

I'd much rather have Van Nistelrooy for instance than say somebody with workrate and pace.

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12 Mar 2013 17:03:19
Manchester United and Chelsea's attempts to find a date for their FA Cup quarter-final replay at Stamford Bridge will not be helped even if the London club get knocked out of the Europa League this week.
United and Chelsea officials are currently trying to find a space in their crowded calendars for their replay after Sunday's exciting 2-2 draw at Old Trafford.
With a two-week international break starting next Monday, there are not many opportunities to fit the game in between now and the Wembley semi-final weekend on April 14th and 15th.
However, bizarre UEFA rules that forbid domestic games taking place on the same night as Champions League or Europa League games are only serving to complicate the matter, meaning that Chelsea's result against Steaua Bucharest on Thursday night is all but irrelevant to the problem.
Chelsea are 1-0 down to the Romanian team after the first leg and may not progress but UEFA's rules - designed to protect their own competitions - mean that two weeks of available days in the first and second weeks of April have been rendered unusable by the FA regardless.
The FA currently receive a solidarity payment from UEFA after agreeing to the rule in the first place but it still does nothing to help United and Chelsea's cause.
Currently the most likely weekend for the game to take place would appear to be Easter weekend of March 30/31. United are currently due to play at Sunderland in the Barclays Premier League on the Saturday lunchtime while Chelsea are due at Southampton the following day.
Both those games could be moved, although that in itself would play havoc with TV schedules because both are currently due to be broadcast live.
United, for their part, have not ruled out playing Chelsea on Good Friday, March 29.

Believable3 Unbelievable1

Nightmare!

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I think UEFA prefer games in major European leagues not to be played on the same night as one of their own competitions, but I don't think they can stop them from bing played completely.

#ags

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12 Mar 2013 12:39:14
Hi Ed do you think Ferdinand will get any punishment for the Torres incident? {Ed004's Note - Seems he won't}

Believable4 Unbelievable2

12 Mar 2013 18:26:47
Ferdinand will definitely get punished because power belongs to 'THE PEOPLE'.
Bas!cs.

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12 Mar 2013 12:45:15
Not sure where the Rumours have come from with regards to Modric.
He signed for Madrid just last season knowing at the time that united wanted him.
Why after one season will A:madrid let him go? B:choose to come to united?

Believable5 Unbelievable1

Well my friend that was levys doing he was adamant he did not want to sell to a PL club and when enquires were made by PL clubs slapped at least an extra 10m on the price
Chris the REDman

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He has not settled well, has not had many games and we have always had an interest in him. He also will have got Madrid out of his system, which is a very good thing.

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He seemed very happy to knock us out, trying to get Ronny all worked up after the game. ? He is good, and it was certainly a great goal he scored. But I wouldn't expect him to come to united anytime soon. Just a 'possibility' dreamt up by the daily fail.

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I'd have him. I know we were down to 10 men, but I still thought we might hold out, until he started doing his stuff.

Not getting enough games at a team like RM, does not mean you are suddenly not a good player - just means we can get him a bit cheaper than we would have done originally.

Top player in my opinion and think he would be ideal with a Strootman type.

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12 Mar 2013 12:20:06
Just to offer some clarity, to my knowledge the Modric rumours should be taken with a pinch of salt. The fact that Modric is being considered as being part of an initial offer from RM in the summer for Bale has obviously now sparked chat that we too will be in for Modric. Ignore this as best you can. Madrid won't be coming to us this summer I can assure you.
Expect a more defensively minded game breaking CM to come in.

PJ

Believable4 Unbelievable3

We'll all take your word for it then.

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Need a modric or moutinho and a defensive midfielder. The games v city, real, Chelsea, spurs etc have highlighted this.

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Or maybe PJ we could sign both, I meanits a crazy world!
Chris the REDman

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I'd have Modric but not for a penny over £20 million. I can't see it happening though. For me 2 midfielders one with a bit of bite & one who can put his foot on the ball & spray it around. Also another winger
My choices would be
Strootman
Gotze
Ronaldo
Yes I know its dreamland but we can all dream can't we
I'd definetly get rid of Anderson, Young, Valencia, Macheda & Bebe & some deadwood form the reserves
Blackpool Red

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Tbf i'd have modric in a heart beat, my dream signings for cm would be Modric, and bender

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Nothing against Modric, but wouldn't he play exactly the same sort of role as Kagawa? I couldn't see the two of them on the same pitch.

TommyH {Ed004's Note - Completely different roles mate}

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Modric feeding Kagawa

Kagawa feeding van Persie

van Persie scores!

Could do with a box to box ball winner though I think.

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No tommy one is an advanced playmaker and one is a deep lying playmaker i. e xavi and messi
Chris the REDman

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REDman - fair enough, I just think if we played Modric & Kagawa as 2 of our midfield 3 (we surely couldn't play them as a midfield 2) it puts an awful lot of pressure on the single 'ball-winning/tackling' midfielder that plays with them (and the lone striker up front)

TommyH

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12 Mar 2013 10:54:53
Realistically what is Hernandez' market value and would we be willing to do business?

Believable0 Unbelievable2

I'd say £15-20m, I hope we don't sell though I love the lad I think he's a model professional, never complains or anything but due to not getting games I think its best for both parties that we let him go

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Close to £20m i'd imagine.

He's a good age, his all round game has improved tenfold since his arrival. He has a good marketing value. He has a great attitude. Independently valued at £19.5m. I would think £18m-£20m would be a fair price.

I would prefer him in the squad, but if he wants first team football then £20m would be a fair price IMO.

Sydney!

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£18-20 million I would say. That is a fair price for someone who is guaranteed to get 15-20 goals a season.

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Agree with all the replies, though Chicha is one of my favourites and I don't particularly want to see him go. I'm surprised at how little many games he's started this year given his good goal scoring form.

HBadger

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Chicha is worth so much more to the fans than 20m
Chris the REDman

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Well if Andy Carroll is worth £35m then I would hazard to guess Hernandez is worth £40m plus

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Andy Carroll is not WORTH £35m though, someone was just stupid enough to pay that. We can't bank on that level of stupidity.

HBadger

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That totally depends on who's buying. If atletico sell falcao and then go for chicharito we could potentially hold then to ransom over the fee. Not that I want him to go, but he's not getting enough game time in my view.

Philiphs93

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I agree with Philips, we don't need to sell and if Atleti have just banked a big fee from Falcao it won't help their negotiating stance. I think in that case 25 mill (with first option) would be a fair deal. Assuming the player wants to leave and wants to sign for them.

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Hernandezloves the club but i'm nearly sure he would leave if a club like atletico came in we could easily get 20 million for him and wouldn't have to replace him as there would be rvp welbeck rooney henriquez and kagawa could play behind any of them
paddy the irish man

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12 Mar 2013 08:56:51
Hey folks i'm looking for some thoughts here about the warrior that is Anto V, I thought he was very ineffective against Chelsea and IMO I think he's been that way for awhile, this season he's played about 20 games and not scored and I think only has 4/5 assists to his name, that's pretty poor considering crossing is his strength. He may catch a defender out once in a game but is pretty easily kept in check as we've seen this season.
Now I know all the talk is of Nani going but he is genuinely a better player all around than Anto V, I think Nani is getting a bit of a raw deal, yes he's being a flute about his contract but I think if we can get this sorted we should keep a hold of him and look to sell on Valencia. I do love Valencia but looking at the fast passing game we are moving towards I don't see him as having a bright future in O. T.
Young and Nani, even Welbeck are always beating there man even if the end result isn't always the best, they can pin back defenders and keep them thinking but Anto V makes it easy for defenders, just run him out to the corner and he'll boot it into the crowd. Maybe I am being a bit harsh but look at the players we are being linked with Rodriguez, Ronaldo etc then look at the style they all play compared to Anto V. I think he could well be the next to go and maybe should be ahead of Nani on the shipping out line! Opinions people?

RedKen

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Valencia, I've always liked but this season he has been really, really bad. Whether it's injury-related, or to do with confidence, it doesn't matter - when he plays, we don't have a threat at all from the RM.

It's a shame because he's the exact type of player you want to see succeed at your club - hard-working, humble, no hassle whatsoever, strong and any man able to sit there reasonably calmly with his ankle hanging off has my respect!

RED_SKY

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One trick pony. One footed footballer who cost us £17m. The worst number 7 for a long time to have worn the united shirt.
I think he has lost pace, which is the only asset he had. He never comes inside as his left foot is nonexistent, so the defenders work is made very easy.
A lot of the teams in premiership have got very good left backs these days, so Valencia has found it difficult to cope as he has no football brain to beat them.
Nani is a different player, he will beat them all day with skill. He needs to improve on his decision making and he will be fine.
Sell Valencia, Anderson, young, macheda and possibly Rooney too. And buy a good left winger, bale or Rodriguez and let nani and zaha fight it out for the right wing spot.

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Michael Owen weren't has to be the worst number 7 surely. At least Valencia can play a few games a season

ALDUtd

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Valencia against Chelsea was one of the worst performance's I've seen in a while.
He had no joy down the flanks, slowed the pace of our game right down, only seemed to look in one direction for any options and lost the ball on numerous occasions.
Time to move him on?

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I dunno that ronaldo bloke wasn't very good was he? ;)

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It was so painfully cringe watching Toni go up against cole when he came on. He looked as though he had no confidence at all to go past him. Not like Toni of old. PLEASE COME BACK TO US TONI!

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12 Mar 2013 07:12:02
Im personally think nani lately has been much better!

If he had stayed on in the 2 recent games I think we would of won!

Would like to see him re sign on and we need valencia gone if anyone as he hasn't done anything this season at all!

IF we buy anyone I think it will be only a cm and maybe a young cb/lb

We have got fabio returning and also keane the cb so maybe just a midfeilder!

People say we need all these players but in reality we always do fine with our squad i'm sure the real madrid game proved that!

Hopefully financially 2013/2014 we will clear some debt and use the sponsor money wisely when re negoiating

Believable10 Unbelievable1

12 Mar 2013 07:05:08
It's a while since I have posted, partly because of work commitments and partly because I can't believe how fickle some of our supporters are.
Seven days ago we were going to win the treble, now I think I am supporting a team in disarray, a team that will it seems sell almost anyone if the price is right, we have a manager who needs replacing, a player who is a disgrace to the No. 7 shirt, well if I believed some of the posters on here that would be the case.
Sure Madrid beat us, would the result have been different against them if Nani hadn't been sent off well we will never know, but that really doesn't matter as the game has gone.
Yes we lost a 2 goal lead on Sunday, but we are still in the cup thanks to a great save from DDG at the end, so we have another chance. On Tuesday Clevs was good enough to start against Madrid and reading most posters on here would have been part of a team that would have beat Madrid without the sending off, but on Sunday he is not good enough against the best teams, will always get found out against them, so what are Madrid? I can only assume that these posters see Chelsea as a better team than Madrid, just for the record I don't rate Clevs that highly, just trying to bring a bit of sanity to the debate.
Before Sunday, many posters were saying what a great season Evra was having, yet 90 minutes later he was hopeless, at fault for the 2nd goal etc etc. Now I know some people can't wait to criticise our players and maybe I am mistaken, but from where I was sat it looked like Evra pushed forward and Rooney carelessly gave the ball away leaving him hopelessly out of position and with no chance to get back. Before the moaners go on about Evra pushing forward I suggest they look at how he has played all season, you know the way that has won him many many plaudits on here.
I don't really see what has changed from last week in terms of our squad, sure we lost to Madrid, but we are still in the cup and have a 12pt lead in the title race. If people want to criticise Sunday's performance then for me that should be saved for the team selection and use of substitutes, after all Fergie has openly admitted that the two CMs were tired and kept giving the ball away, yet we never addressed this issue. Personally I thought it was a typical tired / lacklustre performance that followed a European game, made worse by all the drama of Tuesday night.
Will we win the league, I don't know, I am one of those supporters who will only believe it when it happens, but one thing is for certain every other Premier League club would swap places with us. Whatever happens we need to support the Club and players so please please just take a bit of time before you post a knee jerk reaction to a game slagging off some of the players, frankly some of the posts are embarrassing.
Sorry for the rant but it has been building up over a period of time as I have read some unbelieveable posts on here from so called United supporters.

Keanooh

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Thats a great post
LP

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Before Sunday, and for at least two years, a number of us have been pointing out that Evra has become a major weak point in the defence. This is not reactionary or based on one poor performance, it's based on the fact that a player who bases his game on his ability to get up and down the pitch quickly no longer has the legs to do this effectively. A left back cannot push as far forward as Evra unless you are able to recover your position very quickly.

Not just for the goal, or just in the Chelsea game, Evra has been stranded up field, relying on the left winger or the centre backs to cover his position. He has become a left back who sees defending as a secondary role, and despite the improvement in his crossing this season, and chipping in with a few goals, Evra has been shown up in a number of big games. For example, Bale is clearly Spurs biggest threat, but against us it was Lennon for the simple reason that he is a fast direct winger that exploited Evra's failings.

I don't see how pointing out that a player like Evra has gotten older, lost a key yard of pace, and has been unable to adapt his game is slagging him off. It's assessing the ability of a player, who will be turning 32 at the end of the season, to continue playing at the highest level. Some players like Rio are adapting to the change in their physical abilities, Evra still bombs forward like a man in peak physical condition, but he jogs back like a player entering the last years of his career. It's reckless and it has cost us, and will cost us, against quality opponents.

Danny Pughnited

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12 Mar 2013 11:23:37
It's not rocket science, the team has been punching above it's weight all season, it was only after being drawn against Madrid that people started to believe this team was something special. Yes tactically they may have bettered Madrid but the team is not in there league, also people saying that they were better than the two German teams, Dortmund and Munich, they simply are not.

Every one can see there are no challengers in the League, all rivals have been abysmal. People talk about the best squad etc etc that may be but only if they are on form and how many have been.

Sydney! made a list of players that would be fresh for a certain game, 90 percent of them had been playing poorly so what does fresh matter.

Rafael has even been chasing his tale or more to the point Mata's, Ozil's, Ronaldo's. Hazards, Oscars and Di Maria's for the last 2 weeks and he's supposed to be the one in form.

Perhaps someone could list the numerous games where we have battered teams with our fantastic play. Anyone, in honesty no, how many times has the team been over run but got the points.

Although no one has said it, where was RVP when we needed him in the big games?

Fubar

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Great post Danny, there are a few on here who think giving an honest opinion about a player's form/ability is "slagging them off". Evra has been better offensively this season, but he is still our weakest link in defence by some distance.

Sydney!

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Some great posts here and I agree with much of what everyone has said. We have been punching above our weight, last season as well in my opinion but we have made the best of what we have. Some people are quick to change their opinions based on 1 or 2 games but a lot of regulars on here are pretty balanced. Good point a out RVP who has gone very quiet lately

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Danny - my post was not about Evra in particular as you can see by the other comments I made. I agree that Evra is coming to the end of his career at United and yes we do need a new LB. All through this season he has been praised on here for his offensive work, see Syd's comments saying how he has improved offensively. Well people can't have it all ways, if he pushes forward and then gets caught out by Rooney giving the ball away and the opponents break and score, you can't complain. In other games he has scored and provided assists, I didn't see anyone on here complaining about him being too offensive then, yet Evra played exactly the same way in those games as he did on Sunday. Funny how when things are going ok we see comments like Evra has done enough to stay for another year yet when it goes wrong, it is all his fault, like I said people can't have it all ways.
You say Lennon caused him problems well nothing new there, Lennon always causes Evra problems, don't believe me watch games as far back as the CC Final in 2009 when Lennon tore Evra apart.
I don't have any problem with reasoned discussion, but some of the comments on here in the last 7 days have been nonsense. If you don't think comments like Valencia is a disgrace to the shirt, it is time for a new manager, evra is hopeless etc; etc; aren't knee jerk reactions after a defeat and a draw then I guess we just see things differently.

Keanooh

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Keanooh, watch a game from 2007/08 and watch how Ev gets up and down the field to both attack and defend. He has always been attacking, but he used to be far better defensively too. Now I agree with Danny that United wanted Baines this summer, but I think Everton wanted a few million too much and we ran out of cash. Especially with Nani not being offloaded as planned. I think we need to improve the LB position this summer, obviously the central midfield and I think we need a 'special' winger/forward like Rodriguez to replace Nani. I think the manager needs to be ruthless this summer and get the deals tied up quickly.

Sydney!

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I actually agree with bits from both sides of this debate but I think Keanooh sums it up best with:

"I don't have any problem with reasoned discussion, but some of the comments on here in the last 7 days have been nonsense. If you don't think comments like Valencia is a disgrace to the shirt, it is time for a new manager, evra is hopeless etc; etc; aren't knee jerk reactions after a defeat and a draw then I guess we just see things differently. "

What I would say is that most of the poor/fickle comments have either been made by posters with noname or posters who only tend to come out of the woodwork after a poor result. Most of the regular's tend to be reasoned and consistent in their views IMHO.

HBadger

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Syd is right Keanooh. While I am happy to say that Evra has improved his end product this year, it has been his one of his weakest years defensively.

Evra was never the best defender, but he was fast enough that he could recover against opponents who got past him, and he was fast enough to get back into position when he burst forward. The last two years he has relied far too much on other players to cover his position, and this just isn't the way a defender should be thinking. A full back's first duty is to stop attacks, their second is to add an outlet when the team is going forward. Evra is still playing like a younger player who thinks he can attack when he likes, but he doesn't have the legs to do this. This is partly down to our lack of a left-footed winger (our wingers cut inside, meaning that Evra feels like he has to go down the line), but it is also down to Evra not being able to adjust his game to fit his physicial capabilities.

Compare Evra to Rio and you'll see how an older player can adapt their game by changing the way they use energy. Rio's playing like a smart older player only running when he really has to, but Evra's still playing like he did when he first arrived, running forward for every attack. Rafael is able to do this because he busts a lung getting back, Evra is too puffed out from charging forward to still do this, but he hasn't been able to change the way he thinks and plays to counter this.

SAF isn't a fool and he can see that a lot of crosses and goals are coming from the left side. He can certainly see that Evra is often caught upfield when team's counter attack. We looked at Baines during the summer but I think the RVP transfer meant that we didn't have enough left in the bank to get him. We took a punt on Buttner, but I can see us looking at a quality lb again next summer.

Danny Pughnited

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Danny, I think City quashed any chance of us getting Baines for a cut-price deal when they bought Rodwell. Everyone knows Everton are struggling for cash. Baines has said he was surprised there wasn't a formal United bid made. Well I doubt a footballer listens to the media about the gossip so we can only assume United contacted his agent during the summer to see if Baines would be interested in a move if a bid was made. I guess it surprised him that we never ended up making a formal bid. RvP did eat up much of the funds and with Nani not selling it meant other targets couldn't be achieved or cheaper options were made instead (Buttner). Bill Kenright and SAF are very good friends so any talking over Baines would not have become public knowledge like other talks do. I would imagine we will look again to Baines in the summer, but Everton will play hardball again and if reports are to be believed they wanted £18m last summer. I think anything up to £15m would be a fair deal for both parties. It would be nice for Rooney/RvP to be in the area when a corner or free-kick is taken, rather than them taking the corner. We know what Baines offers from a set-piece.

Sydney!

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Syd, there's a world of difference between honest, constructive criticism, and some of the brainless comments that appear on this site about players, usually halfway through a game, posted by no-namers, and inevitably finished with an exclamation mark just to show how strongly they feel, granted, but still downright disrespectful to players who are wearing the club shirt.

And before anyone throws Rooney at me (please god, no!). I may criticise his lifestyle decisions in general or his poor first touch, after a game, but I have never come on and said during a game, he's crap! Sell him! Embarrassment! Disgrace to the jersey! Liability! Past it! etc etc

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'I've been aware of what's been said in the press but I don't know much beyond that, ' Baines said.
'It doesn't do any harm [to be linked] but it doesn't do any good either"
'It's just one of those things that tends to swing around this time of year.
'People put two and two together sometimes they get four and sometimes they get three or five. It gets other people more excited than those involved. '

Well from that I guess footballers do listen to the media about gossip

And people do put 2 and 2 together and get 5

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