Manchester United Banter Archive June 13 2015

13 Jun 2015 22:07:45
Stevie

Just saw your reply. You are my posting buddy so I didn't think you were trying to compete, I was genuinely saying that whatever issues we faced growing up in inner city Manchester pale into insignificance compared to growing up in NI. We may have had local 'where are you from ' issues but nothing like what you had to deal with.

13 Jun 2015 23:21:15
Good man. When I read it back, I thought it sounded like that Monty Python sketch when they compare their terrible upbringings :)

Thankfully its not as bad for my wee fella, as it was for us, mate. Progress of a sort. Small steps. You should visit it some day. Great part of the world.

14 Jun 2015 09:02:43
I can remember going to N'ireland a few times as a child to see family and such and being told I'm not allowed to walk down this street or that street, being warned about playing with local children because I would be a target with my English accent. At the time I didn't understand it being to young.

Seeing giant walls separating different parts of cities.

My dad got paint thrown over him while venturing to the shops for milk, because of him sounding English.

Crazy times and I ain't been back much to the north since. It must of been hard growing up in those times in Ireland Stevie, especially Derry etc.

14 Jun 2015 11:23:52
We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof!
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.

Quality!

14 Jun 2015 11:35:51
They have bus tours up those same streets now, just for you lot, Chris :)

14 Jun 2015 12:26:16
That's the one, Brendan :)

13 Jun 2015 20:25:24
Out of interest. Why don't british clubs put release clauses' in players contracts like foreign clubs do?

13 Jun 2015 22:43:24
If only 002 was here. This question has her name all over it!

I do think it could make a great discussion though.

I have always questioned the legality of such a term in a contract. Having such a clause that the club and not the current market can dictate a players value.

Just how much weight do these clauses actually hold? We all remember Arsenal's attempt to obtain Suarez's service which landed on deaf ears.

My guess would be that the lesser clubs in Europe introduced the clauses to help fend off the bigger clubs from buying up all their talent on the cheap. From there on out the larger clubs started putting extortionate clauses on players contracts ensure themselves of said players services.

As I say, just my guess. Oh how I miss 002.

13 Jun 2015 23:28:07
Buyout clauses are mandatory in most Spanish contracts - although unlike a release clause - they are paid by the player rather than the buying club. Clubs often set the amount way above the players actual market value - although the player must agree to the amount which is why young players at smaller can often move for reasonable or cheap values. There are often complications with buy-out clauses as the money paid by the buying club to the player (to enable them to buy out their contract) is subject to tax. More often than not an agreement can be reached by the two clubs but there have been times (see last summer with us and Bilbao) where the buying club has had to pay the tax on top of the actual fee.

Release clauses are paid directly by the buying club to the selling club - and as the name suggests - lead to the release of a player from their contract. They're more common on the continent than in the UK although are not as prevalent as buy-out clauses are in Spain (as they are not mandatory). We rarely see them at bigger clubs but it's not uncommon for promising young players to insist on a release clause in order to facilitate a move to a larger club should the opportunity arise (Ba, Benteke, etc).

The Suarez case was a little different. If I recall correctly - there was a clause in his contract stating that Liverpool had to listen to offers above £40m. Arsenal found out about the clause and put in a bid of £40,000,0001 - which Liverpool listened too - and promptly rejected. As with any legal document - wording is everything!

13 Jun 2015 20:14:20
whats people's thoughts on right back seems a position lvg is keen to add but haven't heard many rumours on this position any thoughts on Montoya of barca ? Surely has potential and with alves staying and Vidal signed could be an option ?

13 Jun 2015 22:40:55
Montoya is good but not great. If we are going to bring someone in then they need to be a significant improvement on what we have. Montoya doesn't fit that desciption.

13 Jun 2015 23:03:15
I don't think Montoya would be suited to our league. He doesn't look like the most robust player and we have seen what happened to Rafael during his "bedding in" phase in the PL. I had a moment where I was convinced the lad was made out of glass!

I think Montoya will move on from Barca, and so he should to get a lot more game time under his belt. I just don't believe it will be to us or a top 3-4 team in another of the "big" leagues around Europe.

Mine.

13 Jun 2015 15:40:08
I'm expecting to get hounded for this as he is a former player of city but would anyone take Richards on a free?

I've always rated him and thought it was a real shame he could never get into the city team as I had him down as a potential England star at right back.

With Evans looking set to leave and possibly an exit for Jones I think he could be good cover for center back and possibly start at right back, I haven't seen how he has done on loan so I'm not sure what type of form he is in but if he could keep injury free I feel it could be a decent bit of business.

Lads a united fan too apparently.

Dont worry I'm fully expecting most to disagree and call me crazy.

13 Jun 2015 15:55:56
Not crazy at all.

13 Jun 2015 16:03:28
I've heard crazier pal, believe me.

13 Jun 2015 16:05:44
I used to like him a lot, but for this system we need people comfortable on the ball and he is a bit like Phil Jones on the ball.

City ruined his potential.

13 Jun 2015 16:25:53
Ed001 says he's got a huge attitude problem, he wouldn't really add anything to the squad and would want high wages, best steering clear of him.

13 Jun 2015 16:39:12
You mean the Richards who hates to train, is lazy, has a horrible attitude and thinks too highly of himself. Imo would be a huge mistake

13 Jun 2015 16:44:47
Not good enough

13 Jun 2015 16:38:10
Ed01 would disagree. Unless Richards has changed since moving to Italy

{Ed001's Note - attitude mate. He was last on the training pitch and first off it, never put any effort in and so was never fit.}

13 Jun 2015 16:57:26
Theres a reason he's never fulfilled his potential Imo and I'm sure Ed001 knows more than me on the matter. I always wondered why he never got picked at RB for england after Neville retired and can only assume it was either a lack of application, tactical nous or lazyness. Not the type of player i'd like to have around the squad at all. Would rather someone hungrier/with better application.

{Ed001's Note - he has real attitude problems, Mancini said of him that he was last onto the training pitches and first in the changing room. You really would not want him.}

13 Jun 2015 17:08:55
Would rather bring back Gary Neville.

13 Jun 2015 18:01:32
There must have been issues, if Glen Johnston was getting picked ahead of him for England.

13 Jun 2015 18:20:59
As a title-chasing team that's trying to right the wrongs of the last two years and return to its former glory, Richards really isn't the player we should be looking at.

We often profess that we are the biggest team in the world, renowned across the globe and have a rich history envied most.

As we stood idle, those around us, both domestically and in Europe, kept on marching. They grew their clubs their 'brand' but above all else, their bank balance.

I often read on here; "He's too expensive". " I would rather spend the money elsewhere". When will we realise that the game has changed?

We are very fortunate that, as a club, we are (debts aside) cash rich. To compete with the teams that are winning these trophies both at home and abroad, we have to match them in the market as well as the pitch. Us fans need to stop giving a toss about how much a player costs and how much his wages will be. We have hoards of executives and accountants whom know what they are doing and certainly know how to balance the books.

As MANCHESTER UNITED, we want only the very, very best.

Micah Richards? Not a f$€%ing chance!

Mine.

13 Jun 2015 18:29:19
real shame he look like he had the talent and attributes but there is probably a reason he didn't reach his potential

13 Jun 2015 21:15:40
Ah never really knew about his attitude problems, was just a big fan of his a few years back and thought it was down to injuries that he'd been left out at City, my bad. Yeah after learning that I'd probably steer clear too.

Options are running thin though, no real solid rumours coming out about anyone, all has gone quiet with Clyne after it seemed certain he'd sign a contract with saints, I don't know whether that's good or bad.

I'm unsure on Coleman too, don't really know too much about him bar from the games I've seen Everton play against us, surely being a former winger would suit our system more though, ed's have you heard anything new on his situation?

13 Jun 2015 18:18:53
Thanks for the insight Ed001, can't see Lvg being impressed with that work ethic (or lack of) either, certainly one to steer clear of.

13 Jun 2015 14:10:11
Wish we would give Angelo Henriquez a chance.

13 Jun 2015 15:04:12
I think the problem at the moment is that chances are something the club can ill afford.

A few years ago I would have to agree with you, Matt. Bleeding talented youth in to the first team for the odd cup game was a great way to see how our Young guns could fair against established teams. For the likes of AH it would be perfect to see how he would do against much more physical teams than he has faced during his loan periods.

However, I personally feel he won't get his chance for a couple of reasons. It's also worth noting that not only do I believe this is what will happen, I also want this to be the way we approach next season.

The first issue is our current formation. We have space for only one striker and a certain Mr Ransom; sorry, Rooney, has already been assured of a starting place due to him holding the armband. You could argue that Rooney could be dropped further down the park but, tbh, that's an entirely different debate that has been done to death on these pages. Further more, a high calibre club such as ours which is currently chasing trophies can not and (IMO) will not put their trust in a young player on the back of a successful loan in another country. Maybe when we were in for a few trophies every year, but not anymore. The club will want proven, experienced, quality strikers that can change a game on their own. And rightly so.

Yester-year we could afford to give this youth a fair crack of the whip during our league cup runs but I'm confident for the likes of AH that is no longer the case.

The league cup has always been a take it or leave it cup for us. Extra fixtures that would clogg up our calendar and have no importance to us while we were hot on the case of the PL, CL and the FA Cup. Having failed to win silverware for the last two seasons and LVG wanting to prove his pedigree, I'm sure we will have a strong showing in the league cup next season in a bid to put something in the cabinet. This would rule out our "will he or won't he" players from the fringes and could be why we will see the very talented James Wilson secure a season long loan.

Sorry for the long post everyone! Also the formatting is probably cr@p as I'm on my phone!

Mine.

13 Jun 2015 15:19:49
Mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine mine.

13 Jun 2015 16:12:45
Seagull - Totally agree.

I wrote a lengthy post a while ago on why the top level teams shouldn't bother with youth teams anymore. We take the top talent, then ship them to lower level teams for "development" or keep them with us and they eventually rot.

I would much prefer teams below the top 4 bringing through youth, blooding them in the first team and then getting them ready for the big boys. Players like Kane, Sterling, etc would still be unheard of had they been at Utd, City, Chelsea for the past 3 years.

There is too much money and competition now for teams like Utd spending a couple of years blooding youth. Only a few turn out good and then if they are foreign the chances are they want to move elsewhere.

This is a key problem with Englands national team as well, but that's another debate.

13 Jun 2015 18:05:42
The Premier League is much more competitive now than it has ever been before. With more clubs having access to vast amounts of money it has changed it from what it used to be.

10 years ago, teams were able to promote youth and integrate them in to their squad with relative ease with only a minor risk to the big picture. But some youth were worth the risk with their potential being so high. The Uniteds, Arsenals and Chelseas were able to take these risks due to the other players on the park having so much quality, they had the ability carry a player or two.

Fast forward 10 years and it's a totally different story. Every single point is much more valuable due to how close the PL has become. Gone are the days of a one or two horse race. We often have 4 or 5 teams battling it out up until January/February when the weaker teams have fallen away. The bigger teams in the league just don't want a weakness in there team and seem to prefer spending the money on proven talent.

For me, I totally understand this method. I mean, these teams are chasing silverware after all. They all know that a home defeat to Norwichbecause they played 17 year old Joe Bloggs (labelled the next Rio Ferdinand) at CB, could be the difference between a trophy and not.

Youth still has a huge part to play. I just think these younger players will be bought up by the bigger once they have plied their trade for the 'not so rich' teams that grace our wonderful league.

Mine.

13 Jun 2015 18:30:25
Some good points here, I've said before that the increased competitiveness of the epl is an issue with regards us blooding youth. The u21 league/system is inadequate and allows for certain players to rot as Beast says, see Thorpe as an example who should have been playing 1st team football at a lower level for a while now. The system needs changing somehow but what the best solution I, I'm not sure.

13 Jun 2015 13:42:51
Hi Guys

So apparently we are going to make an opening bid of £40 million for Harry Kane so that means Spurs won't sell for less than £50 million that's too much for him.For that money I'd rather have Lewandowski or Benzema.
Kane for Hernandez and £10 million is a good deal but that won't happen.

13 Jun 2015 13:50:43
Hernandez plus £20 million, and maybe Nani too could work - but I doubt it. Out of everyone at Spurs if we could only choose one it would be Lloris.

13 Jun 2015 15:08:18
Although I can't see an exchange deal happening, I think Chico would do really well at Spurs. Even more so if he was playing alongside Kane, sadly.

13 Jun 2015 10:45:17
With all the Harry Kane talk at the moment I would just like to ask Ed001 for your opinion on him as a neutral fan? Do you feel he has got something about him or do you feel he has just had a lucky season?

Also mate, I would like to know how you rate his ability in comparison to young Raheem Sterling (whom I rate very highly). I know they both play different postions but both are being touted as the future of English football and I was just wondering if you feel both will make it in the long term and if both have similar potential?

Cheers.

{Ed001's Note - I like Kane, he is very level headed and works extremely hard at his game. He had a few loan spells that did not work out well for him, which he has used as a spur to improve on his game, rather than sulking about it.

Technically he is a lot better than the usual English player, but also strong and a real grafter. I do think he has a bright future, if he stays level headed, but not as a target man striker, though he lacks pace and is strong with a good touch to aid him in keeping possession, his main strengths for me are good vision, awareness and movement to create space.

I think he will end up as a Sheringham type of player, dropping off into midfield to create as well as getting on the end of crosses. With his work ethic and good sense, he should have a bright future, barring injury problems, with England and in club football.

Compared to Sterling, he is showing more maturity. Sterling initially worked extremely hard on his game, despite getting into a few scrapes off the pitch, but since becoming heavily involved with Aidy Ward his effort has dipped. He is also getting into more silly situations that a footballer should steer clear of. Kane has his head screwed on right and has yet to be swept up in all the hype around him, while Raheem is starting to believe his hype. Unless Sterling gets his feet back on the ground quickly, and gets a new agent, then he will not have half the career he should do.}

13 Jun 2015 11:11:07
Very detailed respone Ed001 and very informative. I think your pretty spot on with what you say. I have been impressed with the way Kane has handled himself in the limelight so far and does seem like a pretty down to earth lad. I think the comparison between him and Teddy is interesting as I can see a likeness in their game also. One thing to note though, I have seen you said he doesn't rely on pace which surely is a good thing for the longevity of his career should he continue to bang in goals.

As for Sterling, time will tell what shall become of him should he keep going the way he is. I personally feel he is very talented but he has to keep an open mind about the impact of his short term decisions. If he leaves Liverpool for say Arsenal I could still see him developing well but if he leaves for City to earn a few extra dollars I would worry his career may stall in a similar way to that of Jack Rodwell or Scott Sinclair.

{Ed001's Note - I agree, his lack of pace should help him in the long term, just like it did Sheringham, but it could also stop him reaching the heights his attitude so far has deserved.

With Sterling, he is a dribbler, but he needs to add more end product, he reminds me of Giggs early on, running with the ball at such pace he fails to keep it under full control when it comes to the cross or shot. Giggs was able to throttle back slightly to enable him to keep control and so become a good crosser and goalscorer. My worry with Sterling is that he will fail to learn the same lesson and end up like another similar dribbler, Aaron Lennon. To be fair to him, the coaches have not focused his training correctly, in my opinion, as they have been busy focusing on his tactical awareness, hence playing him in so many different positions. All well and good, but it is his technique that is letting him down, not his tactical awareness which can come with experience anyway. Basics first, touch and technique, crossing and passing, then worry about tactical acumen.}

13 Jun 2015 12:07:57
Pace is something that can be worked on, and its not even sustained pace that he needs. Just that quick burst to turn a defender which he actually isn't bad at doing.

As a young English striker I'd love to see him here.

It would be nice for us to keep a core of English players: Smalling, Clyne, Shaw, Carrick, Rooney and Kane would be nice as regular starters.

13 Jun 2015 12:26:29
Scoring over 30 goals is not luck

13 Jun 2015 12:36:38
Wouldn't like to see sterling at our club at all, bad attitude and so overhyped, he's just Aaron Lennon v2, look at his goals and assists last season it says it all.

13 Jun 2015 10:11:45
Just want your opinion on something I would like United to do. Should United sell De Gea for less than we expect to get out of him because he has only a year left or would you guys want United to take a firm step like Dortmund did in case of Lewandowski. Keep him for one more season. Every now and then I here United want to make a statement by paying a lot of money for a player, last year ADM and this year Kane( just the media sources). I think it's more of a statement to keep your valued player.
Also does anyone know if De gea has asked for a transfer. And if he hasn't do we have to pay his last year wages as well if we sell him?

13 Jun 2015 10:47:51
Sell him, bring in one of the many decent keepers knocking around at the minute. We won't notice he has gone if we buy the correct defenders.

13 Jun 2015 11:05:28
We should hold out for the right deal for us, it is about negotiating and in negotiation if the opposition think we would hold on to him we give ourselves a little wriggle room. Ultimately though we will have to sell if he wants to go.

I see people say hold on to him until his contract runs out like Lewandowski, but in a way that is a spiteful rather than an economical logical decision. If Madrid is what he wants then get the best price and let him go.

13 Jun 2015 11:40:53
We should get what WE want, not what Real want to give. If not, he stays a year and plays for us. To a club of Uniteds size, losing £20m or whatever shouldn't be a problem. The much bigger problem is being seen to be weak in dealings. Look at Levy, because of past dealings, everyone knows he won't be taken for a fool and that is how we need to be seen. It will save us more in the long run if we lose a bit now.

13 Jun 2015 13:52:48
Brendan

Three things on Levy
1) everyone knows in maximising the fees Levy can leave it very late to get replacement players in
2) Where are Spurs even with his dealings?
3) Will the way he extracts the last penny have an impact on what goes on in a player or agents mind as to whether to sign for Spurs in the first place, knowing that if they do well that even if they want to leave they will have to almost force an exit? I am no professional footballer and that may be a very very small or even no part in the decision but if I was I personally would think about it.

Negotiation is about them thinking we will hold on to him until we get a price we want but if he wants to go get to that point in the negotiation as soon as possible and move on

13 Jun 2015 14:27:44
Not saying we have to do it exactly like Levy, just we need to get a reputation for not being walked over, whether a player wants to leave or not is irrelevant for me. I don't think it's Levy's way of getting maximum money which is why Spurs don't really challenge. They aren't that big a club, really, compared to others, realistically they aren't going to challenge the same without the money City and Chelsea have had ploughed it at first, to get them to where they are.

Also, how do you think players will start seeing us if it continues? Will they think 'ok I'll go to United to get top quality coaching, great facilities, great ground and support and then when I've improved, it's ok because they'll let me leave for the club of my choice for peanuts'. I'd rather have players here who want to be here long term, who aren't using us as a stepping stone so that Real can come in and use us like a cheap whore!

13 Jun 2015 16:27:14
Brendan

If what continues? What is "it" that you refer to?

We appear to be about to lose at player from Madrid to a Madrid team who is getting married to a Madrid girl who by all accounts wants to live with him in Madrid. I believe if it wasn't for that we wouldn't be having this conversation. Back in 2009 we lost Ronaldo because he wanted to play there, so "it" if that is what you mean doesn't happen often. I want players who want to stay here long term but we will probably only get that if they are local and come through our youth, if we buy someone from Madrid then it's a risk we take.
The real problem with DDG happened 12 months ago when we should have sorted his contract out or sold him then. Then we would have been in control. However, perhaps there was a weakness in the club due to the management change and perhaps indecision over whether to give him a new contract. Remember the previous summer when there was a management change we saw Nani given a ridiculous new contract and a complete turnaround on Rooney. I think both those situation would have prayed on the mind. In between managers it needed a strong decision and there wasn't one.
If we want to avoid these issues don't let one of our best players run his contract down to 1 year unless we are very sure he will stay.

13 Jun 2015 18:20:48
We have always sold at a price too low for players ability, and not just to Real of course. To name a few we have Beckham (£25m) who was hitting his peak and the best in the world in his position, Pogba (free) of course (don't mention it was about not playing as we know that was bullshizzle), Ronaldo went too cheap when you look at Bales price and that of others, should have been £100m+, Van Nistelrooy who was just 30 but banging them in for fun (£11m), Pique (£5m), even the likes of Welbeck at the price he went at for a young England international was cheap.

Can't remember us selling many players and thinking 'yes I think we got what we should for them'

13 Jun 2015 18:37:38
Redman, that's my take on the ddg situation too.

Not doubting that we have been a soft touch on a few occasions aside from that too.

13 Jun 2015 18:39:02
when madrid come 99 out 100 times they get there man .

13 Jun 2015 07:55:55
Levy is notoriously difficult to deal with and Kane is likely to be overpriced. However, 1 option that might tempt them is if we offered Rooney in exchange / part exchange. How do those that rate Kane feel about that?

13 Jun 2015 08:11:42
It is a completely unrealistic situation. We are not going to sell Rooney imo. He's our captain for god's sake.

Like him or not he will be at OT next season.

13 Jun 2015 08:14:58
Oh AJH
you just want to see the world burn.

13 Jun 2015 08:16:35
U should have a 'keep quite I'm fishing sign' mate lol.

13 Jun 2015 08:21:30
MB just leapt in with both feet lol.

13 Jun 2015 08:32:23
First bite of the day!

13 Jun 2015 08:46:38
I'm genuinely serious. Rooney will be 30 in October and his best days are behind him. I wasn't fishing, just trying to generate a debate

13 Jun 2015 08:56:49
Tony

You are obviously bored today and trying to stir the pot. LOL why debate something that makes no sense,

13 Jun 2015 08:59:47
My two closest friends both follow Spurs, several weeks ago when this rumour first appeared I asked them both hypothetically would you take Hernandez Nani and 20-30 mil for Kane and both said yes.

It's a shame it's hypothetical really. Cause I to would take that deal

13 Jun 2015 09:05:12
suggested it yesterday myself, worth a go for me

13 Jun 2015 09:06:26
Tony if you were being serious (which I highly doubt)I am sure Rooney could give you £300,000 worth of reasons every week as to why he won't be leaving Manchester anytime soon.

13 Jun 2015 09:43:59
After the story "broke" yesterday that we might be interested in Kane I went onto the Spurs page as I thought it would be good to see how highly fans that watch him every week rated him. Someone suggested £50m plus Nani, Hernandez, Evans and Januzaj. Therefore they seem to rate him pretty highly.

Nevertheless he's not worth £50m at the moment in my opinion. £30/£35m I'd probably take him at but we could spend that level of money on someone who is a more complete player like Benzema.

Even if Spurs offered a straight swap for Rooney I'd probably turn it down.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair the £50m was the price to take Nani and Evans off your hands.}

13 Jun 2015 09:44:21
Surely there's been encouragement from him/his agent otherwise there would be no point in attempting?

13 Jun 2015 09:46:15
can someone tell me why Rooney would to do that? Makes no sense whatsoever

13 Jun 2015 09:53:30
I could see himas rooneys long term replacement tbh, not sure if he's ready yet to be our main striker though

13 Jun 2015 10:50:29
Only way this would work if WAG Power came into the equation. We could also contribute a bit to his wages.

I'd love it to happen, but it's unrealistic.

13 Jun 2015 12:34:12
This would be ideal.

Rooney for me these days falls under the bracket of jack of all trades and holds the team back, he has poor concentration and a poor first touch.

13 Jun 2015 07:24:39
{Ed001's Note - We have posted a new article entitled, Spurs Must Stand Firm Over Kane