Manchester United Banter Archive November 13 2014

 

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13 Nov 2014 23:10:11
Just read a report linking us to balanta of river plate. Do you know anything about him?

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13 Nov 2014 23:53:22
I'll make it short. He's going to be the next big star comming from South-America. One of the biggest talents in the world as a central defender. going to be as good, if not even better then Thiago Silva. 21 years old.

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14 Nov 2014 14:20:16
I totally agree, the boy will be a star, scores goals too

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Gonna be an great player, seen a bit of him. a sports writer raves about this kid saying he's going to be a fantastic talent.

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Question is whether he is suited to Premiership and is it too soon for him now/in the summer.
We need players that step up now

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Any chance of Matija Nastasic ed Premiership proven and talented two

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{Ed002's Note - No.}

14 Nov 2014 19:00:34
Any two from varane, balanta, Laporte, howedes, rudiger would be a massive improvement on what we have.

To be honest with smalling, Jones and Evans injury record I would be moving them on. They can all look very good on their day, but when they can't play more than two games in a row without getting injured or sent off. They are on very good wages and can't be relied upon. Time to say enough is enough and sell them.

I can understand why people are saying we need an experienced defender, but I believe having even an inexperience CB who can get a run of games for example balanta or rudiger would improve us at the back enough to secure 4th. Once we have champions league then we can try and attract the world beaters like hummels and varane.

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Would keep Jones he might just have a future but it would be good look to Evans and Smalling and Blackett could be loaned out

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13 Nov 2014 21:58:05
January 2015 i wish for the release of Anderson and then the puchase of Shawcross, and Hummels

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Shawcross. let's bloody hope not he's worst than what we have now. Hummels yes, Shawcross a big fat NO!!

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Shawcross would be on the list but down it.Hummels I feel has eyes on other places.

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Shawcross is a slow and very traditional English defender who would not make it at the top of the game.

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We got rid of him for a reason

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Shawcross doesn't have the footballing skill or intelligence for me. We need a Rio type defender imo, somebody that can calm everything down back there and build from the back - not just hoof it or play predictable safe side to side passes which just allow the opposition to re-group with ease. Hummels would be the perfect signing for me, or somebody with similar assets (my knowledge of viable CB's is limited),

Maybe Badstuber, not sure how he is doing after the bad injury though anyone know?

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Javi Martinez or Van Dijk Beast

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We managed to get rid of Shawcross several years ago, why would we want him back?During that time he hadsnt improved one iota.I know we are all disappointed with our current crop of central defenders, but signing Shawcross sounds like any one will do, when there are several very good players out there who could make a telling improvement to our defence and would cost considerably less thanShawcross.

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13 Nov 2014 17:13:23
Bond/Ed007

Can I ask what your opinion of Virgil van Dijk is?

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{Ed007's Note - Van Dijk has great potential and would be an immediate improvement on the likes of Smalling. He'll be the next big money sale from Celtic, he is a ball playing CB and has a lot of pace, he is as strong as an ox and solid in the tackle, he can bring the ball out from the back himself and he can pick a pass out but now and again he can be a bit indecisive on whether to play a pass or just clear the lines, I'd say that's just down to his lack of experience though, remember he only turned 23 in the summer. He also pitches in with goals from headers and can ping a mean free kick. VVD is one of the calmest CBs I have seen in a long time, at times in domestic games it looks like he is just cruising through the matches in 3rd gear he makes it look that easy and effortless, granted it's against SPFL standards but he's been solid enough in Europe for us as well throughout his time here.
He's been a bit out of sorts this season, he was hoping to move in the summer there but the club dug their heels and said he wasn't going anywhere but he seems to have accepted that and has looked back to him old self in recent matches, I think he's starting to see that our new manager can help him progress as a player but I'll be amazed if he's still in Scotland next season.
LVG didn't take him to the World Cup but he spoke to him personally and said that his time would come on the international stage, again I would think that was down to experience and that he had only played one season for Celtic in Europe and that was against Barca and AC Milan although I thought he played well in the CL for us, especially against Barca at Celtic Park - then they pumped us 6-1 in the Nou Camp!
With the right coaching van Dijk will become a top player, he's still a bit rough round the edges but he has all the attributes to play at a much higher level than the SPFL.
I know Youtube isn't ideal but this will give you an idea of his playing style and ability:

13 Nov 2014 20:51:00
What an analysis. I m shouting out loud on his name since even summer transfer window opened. I was expecting lvg to make move for him but I got disappointed when window closed without we signed him. we badly need him. He is worthy replacement of Rio.

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Well based on that footage he seems to have all of the attributes you need - physically imposing, quick, reads the game well, good positioning and knows when to move with the ball and when to clear his lines.

Better option than Smalling, who looks like a deer in the headlights almost all of the time, and looks to have the sort of potential that good coaching and more competition week in week out would pay dividends.

One other question would be how durable is he / injury history etc?

I'd prefer to go this route than to go after Hummels.

If anyone knows about his potential vs. what else is under consideration, it should be LVG.

No excuses for not adding quality at the back in January.

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{Ed007's Note - He's a fitness freak from what I've heard and off the top of my head I can't remember him missing any games through injury. He missed a match at the end of August/start of September because his wife was giving birth and the manager thought his head wasn't right after all the transfer speculation but that's it.
A quick check there and he missed 2 league matches all season in 2013-14 and played in every domestic cup and every CL game for us, and the 2 matches were missed because he was banned after getting a red card, there's no qualms over his fitness so far.}

He reminds me a little of Yaya Toure with his deceptive pace and strength as well as is ability to drive forward with possession. Even his languid style is similar to Yaya's. He would be a very good player to have in defense.

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Sign him lvg!!

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I've watched a few matches he has played in, very comfortable on the ball good balance, strong lad, good in the air, the only thing is he sometimes just bombs forward and leaves a hole in defence, but if lvg signs him he will put a stop to that, great prospect, he would fit the bill with hummels beside him!

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{Ed007's Note - He can be guilty of that but when you're playing for Celtic you spend most of your domestic matches on the front foot, it's easy enough for a CB to push forward without putting your defence in much danger. Most teams play one up front against Celtic and a 10 man defence so it's not easily exposed, the other CB and the holding MF is still picking up the one man, he'd definitely need to curtail it at a higher level.
I vaguely remember reading something when he signed for us that he could also comfortably play as a CDM but I've never seen him play that role for us, so he might have played there for Groningen at some point.

Cheers Bond 👍

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{Ed007's Note - No probs mate.}

Always my concern with players from so called lesser leagues (and by this i mean below the top few teams) is that can they transfer there shown ability against better players consistently. In the case of Van Djilk all i have seen os on the CL front and on the whole he has looked good. If we were going with him (as a cheaper option) with a view that we also get an older head (more expensive maybe) next to him then that would be a good option.
Certainly would be an improvement in terms of durability and ability.

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Has he been in the Dutch squad at all yet ED? looks a right powerhouse!

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{Ed007's Note - He's been called up a couple of times but has still to make his debut. He was left out of this squad because Hiddink wants to go with experienced players as he tries to hold onto his job.}

14 Nov 2014 10:02:17
What is your opinion on Ronny Deila, 007? I don't watch the SPFL, but i'm interested in hearing your opinion (im from Norway). He played very exciting football with Stromsgodset, and I really want him to succeed. I have not seen a Norwegian manager in Europe playing good football.

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{Ed007's Note - I've been impressed with RD so far, he got off to a bit of a stuttering start but he seems to be settling in and you can see things starting to change from the mess Neil Lennon left us in.}

14 Nov 2014 12:46:03
I suggested him in the summer. Do we have any interest?

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{Ed007's Note - Man Utd, Arsenal, Man City you name any team and they've had scouts up watching him.}

13 Nov 2014 18:36:53
Could I get an eds opinion on this as well as others?

1) do people expect de Gea to leave soon?

2) how much is would u expect to sell him for

3) who would you replace him with?

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{Ed002's Note - (1) No. (2) We don't discuss money because football fans are not very bright and it confuses them. (3) He doesn't need replacing.}

14 Nov 2014 04:48:11
Ed002

I was hoping it was you who replied and I got the answer I wanted so cheers lol

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13 Nov 2014 17:47:29
Good to know we were the difference between Chelsea making a profit last year, and another loss! Yes, the David Luis sale to PSG was also a big contributor to the turn round but without Mata it would not have quite made it. Inadvertently we have perhaps helped them with their FFP issues.

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{Ed002's Note - Chelsea don't have any FFP issues and didn't have them before the sale of Mata. Try to avoid embarrassing yourself. Perhaps worry a little about MU's FFP issue instead.}

Not embarrassed at all, thanks.

Uncalled for comment to a casual remark. Really more embarrassed for you Ed.

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{Ed002's Note - The world is full of half wits like you happy to spout bullshit about a subject that you know nothing of. Try to stick to discussing what little you know.}

I would rather be a half wit, than a rude person,

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{Ed002's Note - I wasn't being rude, just honest.}

13 Nov 2014 12:28:02
I think the center back situation is interesting and to my knowledge there would appear to be probably 6 players on the list that we could get. However, we are competing with our rivals for these guys so hopefully top dollar and our history may attract one or two.

Arsenal find themselves in a similar position to us - weak at the back and share some of our targets: Hummels, Van Dijk and Vlaar. Chelsea on the other hand are looking at Varane and Laporte as are potentially Barcelona. The other name is Howedes.

We are going to have to compete with our rivals to get these, but the question is who do you think we will get? For me, Varane will go to Chelsea and I think Laporte to Barca when their ban is lifted. The reports suggest that Hummels prefers Arsenal - perhaps to their German contingent. So that potentially only leaves Vlaar (who for me is not good enough), Howedes who would be super and Van Dijk who is another one that isn't quite there yet but could be.

Thoughts guys?

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Howedes and Schar are realistic options imo

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13 Nov 2014 13:48:19
I have said it time and time again that van dijk can be top top player. He is potentially equal or batter than what we have. His ball control and distribution is best on the lot. If we manage to snap him up in January that's certain improvement there. Than if we manage to qualify in champions league we can try to pull hummel's. garays. or other established cb. There are not many there to grab.

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We need someone for the second half of the season. The problem with doing a deal for the likes of Hummels etc is they want Champions League football, guaranteed, and we cannot give that at the moment. Also these deals seem to take a lot of groundwork and plotting over the course of the season and are finally rubber stamped during the summer window.

So that is a concern at the moment. Short term I think Howedes

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I think it will be hugely beneficial for our transfer plans if we get ourselves in the top 4 come January - a good run of results may make us look a little more appealing rather than the likes of City.

I agree rodio that Van Dijk ticks a lof the boxes, his distribution is good which is important to LVG, he is commanding in the air and I would imagine that he is good value.

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13 Nov 2014 07:02:11
(Banter Please Ed! )

I have criticized Van Gaal a lot this week, yet thankfully our rivals have been just as bad. let's take a step back during this international break and take a look at some of our competitors for the 3 spots available in the top 4 (discounting the Chelsea of course). Would like to know what everyone thinks of them.

Manchester City - 5 pts ahead of us, and look to be struggling at the moment. Yaya Toure seems uninterested and looks as if he wants a move. Silva and Aguero's injuries haven't helped them, but Pelligrini looks to be struggling a bit. They will finish top 4 I think, but considering that he has had a year to settle in, Pelligrini isn't doing much better than Van Gaal has.

Arsenal - Still haven't bought a top striker, still don't have that defensive midfielder and still don't have a strong defense. The same old issues which have been talked about for years. A mere 1 point ahead of us in the table, and this has been quite poor from a manager who has all the stability in the world to build for long term. They are far too reliant on Sanchez, and if we can mark him out of the game next weekend, we should be able to beat them.

I think they are in a very real danger of not finishing in the top 4 if they don't get their act together quickly.

Liverpool - Well, what a fall from grace. Almost won the title last year, got into the Champions League, and I really thought that they would be back big time. Yet somehow, Brendan Rodgers, the gift that keeps giving has struck again. Sold their best player (which was on the cards anyway), had little to no proper plan to replace him with quality and bought some seriously average players for big money and squandered all the Suarez cash. Only Moreno was a signing that I thought was a step forward and the rest were merely side steps or a step backward.

Having Champions League football, this was their time to buy a couple of top players, yet that didn't happen and to be honest their transfer policy has been a joke. If Van Gaal can get us playing anywhere near full potential I don't see Liverpool in the top 4 in May, from what I have seen until now.

Southampton - Had such a huge transition yet have managed it perfectly. Pelle is a typical Premier League striker, and their defense looks extremely solid. Unlike many others, I don't see them fading away. They will be there or thereabouts and could even crack the top 4. Been really impressed with Wanyama, and I wonder, with Southampton being so open to selling this summer, should we have gone for him instead of Blind. He is by far the better player imo.

Overall I think apart from Chelsea, the quality in the league, especially the top 8 has been quite poor this year so far. Van Gaal is really lucky that we are only 2 points off 4th place.

The next 4 games look winnable to me and we need a run of wins. Michael Carrick getting injured again (hopefully not out for too long) is a big blow, since he adds so much stability and balance to the team. If we can sign an experienced central defender in the January window I believe we have the squad to finish 2nd or 3rd this year.

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Has wegner gone past his sell by date ?

I agree with southampton, clyne and bertrand are good players and alderweireld looks at top player.
Wanyama, schneiderlin and tadic in the middle and decent strikers.
I think they look the real deal . People will argue its only southampton but when you actually look at the players manager how they are playing i think they could make the top 4

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Good points all round Redfaith. Southampton sold their "best" players, who are struggling to say the least and bought some players who were pretty much an unknown quantity. They play as a team with belief and look wonderfully balanced. You've got to give Koeman some credit. And the board, because what they did was quite audacious. Wanyama has really surprised me. Looks very composed, something I thought he lacked.
I think if United can get a good run going, stay tight at the back, there is definitely a good chance of top four this season. We need a real leader in the back four come the January window.
It's really odd how the game is so awash with money but the quality and consistency of the game seems to be less. Value for money?

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Any chance of Godin ed

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{Ed002's Note - Very unlikely.}

13 Nov 2014 11:53:24
Could it not be that there is more money available to the 'lower' teams now so their are less 'easy' games in the premier league than there used to be meaning teams are more likely to drop points to lesser teams.

In my opinion this actually makes for a better league as there are more games that could go either way. There have been many 'upsets' in the league this season, too many for it to just be a coincidence?

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Chelsea have 29 points from a possible 33 which would suggest its not that tough a good team will do well in this league.
United arsenal city etc all have issue.
Even in europe only chelsea look to have a chance

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13 Nov 2014 12:21:01
Pressed send too early then, really enjoyed that post REDFAITH, a lot of what you say is facts regarding the other teams that are struggling, and it just shows us that we aren't that far away as it stands.

I do feel Southampton will drop out of the top 4 once the tougher games start coming, but what a fantastic achievement so far from all involved there. To lose the quality they lost, a lot of people had them down as relegation candidates, and they nearly have 40 points already. I was never really sure why we didn't go for Wanyama, maybe we felt we had a better alternative lined up at the time, who knows.

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I think players are pampered and treated like Gods too easily.

The media turn potential into World Class Talents with a few articles, then the rest of lazy media jump on it because its the "in" thing to say, players agents smell money and the club pays for the hype because the players are their assets, subsequently the players then think they are amazing because they earn so much and expect to be treated like untouchables. In turn hard work and tenacity suffers, so we end up with prima-donnas who don't know what its like to struggle - How many leaders are there in the premier league now in their 20's, they just don't have the drive because they have had it too easy? We lack leaders, Arsenal do, Spurs, Liverpool, - a generation ago those teams were full of leaders.

I watched a documentary on the crash in 2008 the other day and a guy said, you pay someone £30,000 a year, then bump him up to £200,000 a year, he will love you for a few months then he will actually start believing his is worth £200,000 a year despite doing the same thing he was happy doing for £30k. I have it with my staff on a lesser scale, the pay-rise you gave them for doing overtime suddenly is what they feel they deserve and they then want more if they are going to work overtime on top of the pay rise - cheeky and frustrating but unfortunately natural for most people.

Greed and laziness are the reason, its why we get more and more injuries, the mind set changes. People are praised for doing the bare minimum and its a form of spoilt brat syndrome for children!

I hate how football is becoming so soft and the quality is diminishing as a result - we need to change the whole way performance is rewarded for the problem to be solved.

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GDS,it could be that but I don't see how inflating transfer fees, wages, sponsorship deals,ticket prices, memberships etc, can be sustainable. If anything, it will be these so called " lower" teams who will suffer when the inevitable happens and the economic football bubble bursts. Look at some of these "lower" teams: Notts Forest, Leeds, Sheffield Weds, Wolves. They have a fan base and history and they have really suffered. And I don't think that the parachute payments help as some teams seem to accept the reality that they are punching above their weight and are going to go down. How much did Wigan get last season? They are really struggling.
Look at the FA, a total shambles. Technologically, football lags behind both codes of Rugby, Cycling and cricket FFS! There is a fundamentally institutionalized racism in the game and players seem to be able to act outside the accepted norms of society and get handsomely rewarded for it. Come to think of it, why do I love the game so much when there is so much wrong with it, stuff I really can't stand?

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13 Nov 2014 13:35:30
jred,


Who's the stalker now eh ;) good point about Chelsea, but I think they are on a different level at the moment, still think they will lose to some of the lesser teams as the season goes on though. The whole 'invincible' rubbish the press start up this early in the season really annoys me.

Beast,

Finally a post I agree with, unfortunately that is the way of the world though. I disagree slightly on the injury thing though, if someone is injured they are injured, I would imagine most footballers actually want to play football and enjoy it, there will only be a few who see it as just a job.

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Excellent post Beast. The culture of celebrity and mediocrity is what a lot of people aspire to unfortunately. Sad really as there is so much potential in everyone.

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13 Nov 2014 17:20:21
Beast, welcome to the grumpy old men's club. You'll find a seat for the meetings, between me and AJH.

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13 Nov 2014 18:37:54
great post redfaith, Of all the teams you mentioned I think city and ourselves have the best assets in place for major improvement, If southampton keep their 1st 11 fit they won't fold but they are pretty thin on PL experience so if they get a couple of injuries and lose some momentum you can see them faltering come squeaky bum time

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Haha nice one Noucamp - The Mrs actually brought me the Grumpy Old Man book last Christmas!

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14 Nov 2014 20:05:13
gd post that beast m8

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