Manchester United Banter Archive September 13 2012

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


13 Sep 2012 21:55:33
Sydney! Well said. Too many come on here moaning that certain home grown players aren't good enough when they need to be given time. Pressure to succeed is more nowadays than ever before but we have always had a commitment to developing youth. It goes back before ferguson. It even goes back before busby win as you said did so much for this club. Some fans should try looking up the history of the club. Start with louis rocca.

Believable7 Unbelievable2

I would rather see youth given a chance and fail but give 110% than some of the prima donnas in the squad who dont put a shift in
johndenton

Agree7 Disagree2

Perhaps the class of '95 have spoilt us. We have always given youth a chance but to have brought so many great players through of the same age was incredible. SAF is giving some a chance - Wellbeck, Cleverley, bit clearly feels others aren't ready yet.

AJH

Agree0 Disagree0

No name - I would say that most supporters think the opposite and want youth to be given a chance. Look at the likes of Pogba, Morrison and Fryers, less than 12 months ago certain people were telling us that they were the future of the club, where are they now. Pogba sat on the bench and watched Rafael play in midfield in preference to him, don't forget this was a person that SAF had tipped to be a top top player. Last season there must have been 100s of posts on this site advocating playing Pogba, hardly what you would expect from people who are anti youth.
Funny how people are criticsed for 'moaning' about Cleverley as they don't see him as good enough, yet Sydney openly advocates selling players like Macheda who has been at the club since he was 16, does that make Sydney anti youth, no it is his opinion. Just because Sydney rates Cleverley highly doesn't mean that everyone has to, football is a game of opinions, after all, for the last couple of seasons SAF has deemed Evra to be his first choice LB yet on here he is torn to pieces every week.
Sydney has been telling everyone on here how fantastic Cleverley is for the past 12 months or more, so when he doesn't live up to that hype every game people will criticise him. For me Cleverley could be an important player for us, will he be as good as Scholes, not in a million years, just my opinion.

Keanooh

Agree7 Disagree1

Keanooh
my thoughts exactly
jred

Agree3 Disagree0

Difference is Macheda isn't good enough and that has been made clear by the fact that the club have been trying to offload him for a long time now. Add that to his behavioural problems and his bad attitude and you are left with a dud. But most of all the difference is Macheda and Evra have both had time, cleverly hasn't been given time by some the fans.

Andy

Agree0 Disagree1

Oh shock horror Keanooh comes on here once in a blue moon just to reply to one of my posts. I would agree and say that MOST of the fans want to see youth given a chance too, I have not said anything different. I also have no problem with anyone having a moan about Cleverley or any United player for that matter, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I have no problem with anyone who believes Cleverley will not be world-class. I just think he should be given a fair crack and he should be judged when he has had a load more games under his belt. Instead of the no name posters saying he is poor or average at best.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree1

Andy - how many games has Macheda started for Utd in comparison to Cleverley and also at what age was he asked to make them. Funny how Macheda is written off at 21 yet people are saying Cleverley needs time at 23. I'm not saying Macheda will make it but to suggest he has had his chance is simply not true.
The point of the post was it is a game of opinions and you proved that by your thoughts on Macheda.

Keanooh

Agree1 Disagree0

Keanooh, Kiko has been in and out of the first team since he was 17. Training with the senior squad, playing in the preseasons and playing in League Cup games. He has traveled abroad and played in the Champions League. Kiko has had his chance and the club have determined he isn't going to cut it at United, why else would they want to sell him? Why else would they buy Henriquez, Hernandez, play Welbeck ahead of him, why are we looking at Berardi? Kiko has had his chances and he has failed.

Cleverley came into the senior squad last season at 21 and the club deemed him ready and he was given his opportunity. Sadly due to a knob that goes by the name of Davies his season was ruined. So a year later he has to start all over again. He is two games into the EPL season and two games into his international career and he is already being targeted by cretins on the internet. I have no problem with people's opinion that they do not think he will make it or that he will never be as good as Scholes, what bugs me is people putting him down when he hasn't had his opportunity yet. If it wasn't for his bad injury at Watford which put him back a year and last season he would be a 21 year old regular for Manchester United. The same age as Scholes/Beckham etc made their positions their own.

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree1

Macheda has had 33 appearances for United since 2008 when he was promoted to the first team.

19 League games
9 Cup games
5 Champions League games.

16 games in Serie A.
6 games for QPR

Sydney!

Agree0 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 21:13:45
Hopin to see Van Persie fully fit for the Wigan game. We need his goals, Hernandez hasn't had enough game time nor has Welbeck really and without Rooney and Kagawa we need somebody with some magic.

Not a huge fan of Nani, poor decision making lets him down 90% of the time, he can't be counted on. And his set pieces are simply woeful.

Hope to see Buttner get his debut also, Evra really makes my blood boil sometimes.

Couldn't get on yesterday as was pre-occupied but may i also add its great to see how supportive rival clubs have been over the Hillsborough disaster, yesterday. It is great for Liverpool to finally get the truth, maybe now they can get justice and some sort of closure.

REDLAD

Believable2 Unbelievable1

13 Sep 2012 20:00:58
Is Cleverley Sydney's secret love child? I think we should be told. It might explain the unbending support for him :-)

AJH

Believable6 Unbelievable3

He's a good fan, you guys would just want new players galor! We bought nani and Anderson a few years back and yoke there not good enough and you want them sold! There's nothing wrong with homegrown talent but if you want yaya, silva and aguero support city! They won't win the league this year though!
Q

Agree7 Disagree1

Nah, just a fan that believes in giving our youth a chance. Giving them time to adjust and progress. Not shoot them down before their career has even began to take off. People that call themselves United fans. Perhaps they should look back into our history and see how exactly Sir Matt Busby helped make us the club we are today. He trusted youth and so did SAF in 1992.

Sydney!

Agree9 Disagree4

Sydney

Did SAF trust youth in 1992 or in 1995? I am very much in favour of youth but Cleverley is 23
If you want to see youth trusted where is Lingard, Barmby, Michael Keane? Well they just wallow in the reserves with Petrucci whilst the likes of Nani will get a game or a place on the bench as our manager has the experience mantra. Don't expect to see them on the bench much either. When if ever will they get a chance?

Red Man

Agree6 Disagree5

The problem is that in recent years fans have seen Rooney and Ronaldo come to the club at 18 years of age and play straight away so they expect all of our youth to do the same. They would do well to remember that side of Beckham, Scholes, Butt, Neville etc didn't establish themselves as first team players until they were 21-22. Sure Giggs was 17 when he broke through but it just goes to show that not every player is the same. You just have to trust that the manager knows when they are ready. That said, he needs to make sure these players are getting a few minutes in the league cup so they dont get disheartened and decide their futures lie elsewhere ala Pogba.

TK-Red

Agree2 Disagree0

Red Man, Cleverley has had two massive injuries that has put him back two seasons. Whether or not he is 23 is irrelevant, he is still a product of our academy and he is not getting a fair crack by one or two fans. That is pretty sad IMO.

Also Lingard, Keane and especially Barmby are not ready yet. Stick them on the field and they will be destroyed by the opposition and then destroyed by our so called fans. Petrucci has missed two years of progression so his age like Cleverley's is irrelevant. He will still need his loan out, perhaps two.

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree2

Red Man, 1992 or 1995?

So the class of 92 didn't break through til 1995? So it took three years from when they won the FA Youth Cup to break into the senior side? So why can't you give Keane & Lingard three years? I think the manager and Joyce know better than you when the youth are ready. I also believe the class of 92 'rotted' in the reserves too. They didn't turn out too bad though did they?

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree3

The problem is that giving youth experience and winning major trophies are not usually achievable at the same time. Simply put, teams made from the best 24-29 year olds are going to beat teams with the best 18-23 year olds most of the time. It's a balancing act that has worked at times for United, but in recent years seems to have become less effective. I was really set back by the way Morrison and Pogba, the two brightest prospects in our system, were both allowed to leave. I just felt insulted that SAF had been spouting about bringing in youth players as the reason we didn't spend more in the transfer market, followed by him letting our only two first-team ready youngsters leave within 6 months of each other. -KG

Agree2 Disagree0

Lol, I wasn't having a go at Cleverley, I just love Syd's devotion to him. What SAF did in '95 was incredible and boy did it pay off. However, he does seem to have regressed a bit and many of our brightest hopes didn't seem to get a good run...although how many have gone on to star elsewhere? I guess he hasn't thought they were good enough, apart from Cleverley. I would love us to start to build from the youth team, particularly home grown talent.

AJH

Agree1 Disagree0

Sydney

Lingard will soon be 20 years old and hasn't had a chance. How old were Ronaldo and Giggs , 17 and 16, Phil Jones at Blackburn. Take a look down the M62 where Raheem Sterling gets a game at Liverpool then gets called up to England. Have you ever met top class sportsmen? They are very confident in their own ability. So why mention Sterling, well they gave him a chance and look what he has done. Barmby must sit there and wonder if he joined the right club because at 17 he knows his chance might still be 3 or 4 years away. If youth don't think they will get a game until they are well into their twenties they will go somewhere else.

In 1995 SAF had the verve to give a few kids a chance, it wasn't the whole team , but now he doesn't seem to want to give any of them a chance until they are into their twenties. We are and have been weighed down with a few buys like Anderson and Gibson who have been blockers. The crop of kids keeps getting recycled but we also don't seem to shift kids until very late when they don't make it. SAF is going with the tried and trusted and for me seems to have lost trust in young players. After all in 1991 when Giggs arrived or 1995 he wasn't afraid to try them or when Ron arrived.

Red Man

Agree4 Disagree0

Red Man, when Lingard was 18 he had a bone age of just 16. It has been this last year that he has finally started to bulk up. This is why the club are being careful with him. Perhaps a little research wouldn't go a miss. Barmby is 17 and is not even close to be ready yet. Players develop at different ages so your age argument doesn't really cut it mate.

As for Sterling, the only reason he is being given a chance at Liverpool is because BR is severely understaffed and they know they need to play him or he would leave. The only reason Sterling was called up to England was because Jamaica was sniffing around him. Also getting games for Liverpool's first team is different to getting games at United. Our squad is FAR superior to theirs.

Sydney!

Agree4 Disagree4

If powell cant get game time then the others wont any time soon,he has the talent and the frame to play straight away and in epl he might get a few bench seats and an odd cameo here and there and cup game time against newcastle.
johndenton

Agree1 Disagree0

Youth should be given a chance, if they are good enough. I do find it strange talking of Cleverly this way though, he is already 23 after all
Invisible STuey

Agree0 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 19:39:47
Any chance of tunnicliffe getting a game in either the cup or even the weekend?

Caolán.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

Would be good to see but fergie tends to be frustrating with these young players who we all want to see

Agree6 Disagree1

I will be totally honest with you Caolan mate, I am not looking forward to seeing Tunnicliffe or any other youth player make the step up because there will be one or two plonkers on here that cannot wait to start ripping into them and believe it or not, they are supposedly Manchester United fans.

No more players will make it at United until fans give them the time and support that they deserve.

Sydney!

Agree12 Disagree2

Sydney

If the young players are affected by what a few people may say about them then they are not mentally suitable to play for Manchester United. This is more to do with our manager unable to let go of mediocre players clogging up the youths path, how long did it take to shift Gibson, why is Anderson still there? Robbie Brady is there but SAF buys Young , Brady may not be good enough but why keep him then? Are we just not being decisive enough?

There should be room for one or two real youth on the bench but we will likely only see experience who we have paid good money for and have to keep their value up and that is likely the key,keep their value up

Red Man

Agree3 Disagree1

If young players aren't making at the club it isn't down to fans. It's down to Fergie not having faith in them. If the club cared what fans think about players then Anderson, Nani, and Evra would be long gone, and we'd have at least two new midfield players. When Pogba was left in the reserves while Gibson, Rafael and Park were played in the middle, and Scholes was begged to come out of retirement it had nothing to do with a lack of support from the fans. The simple fact is that Fergie doesn't trust the players coming out of the academy.

Danny Pughnited

Agree5 Disagree1

Yea, I agree syd some people have to remember these guys are young, remember when we tried our kids in 95 we were hammered by villa on the opening day, and we were wrote off to many fans write players off for example Macheda hasnt turned out the player we thought he would but the fact is he hasn't been shown much support by some people.

Caolán.

Agree1 Disagree0

Red Man makes a good point, we don't seem to be giving youngsters a chance. I'm not saying we throw them in but we need a better process for progressing them through. Loaning them out is great, as long as they then progress into 1st team contention when they come back.

AJH

Agree1 Disagree0

Lol
so some young players dont make it cos they get slagged off on a website .

if they are good enough they will make it, end off.
jred

Agree5 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 19:09:45
Baring in mind our that chica and valencia have traveled quite a distance I think our team will look like this for saturday.

Lindegaard
Rafael Ferdinand Vidic Evra
Nani Scholes Carrick Giggs
Cleverly
Welbeck

I still feel Giggs is our best left sided player and should play more often. Not in central but on the left. His experience and quick acceleration (which he still has) is better then young IMO. I'm hoping that resting Valencia (mainly as we have a Chmpions league game next week) and playing Nani in his prefered position might bring his confidence back. I think cleverly should continue in his role that he has been playing for England since Kagawa will miss a couple games.this is only if RVP is injured. I do think he will make the bench along with Chicha and will come on if we need rescuing.

CDS

Believable2 Unbelievable8

13 Sep 2012 18:42:54
Hi guys, I know I'm slightly late, but I would just like to thank all those who posted kind words on our site and on here about Hillsborough. I was also delighted to see Fredthered banned and would like to thank Ed007, I AM KLOOT and GDS for their responses to that disgusting cretin. The vast majority of both sets of fans realise and respect, as well as come together on the anniversary of Hillsborough and Munich too, it's a shame that we are all let down by the minority. I really hope that at Anfield next weekend, there are no irresponsible chants, show all those that judge both sets of fans constantly what we are all about, supporting our own team. We all love football, and the incredible rivalry between the sets of fans, and hopefully the incredible support both sets of fans give their teams will be the only thing mentioned with regards to the fans, not the minority. Anyway sorry for rambling, but at the end of the day we are all just football fans.
JFT96
Smithy

Believable10 Unbelievable0

Smithy,

Couldn't have put it better myself, when it comes to football it is all about winning and we hate each other, but at the end of the day football is just a game and a hobby as much as people think it is life or death.

The real life and death situations are the ones where we all need to stick together, there will always be the odd muppet but we all know it could have been any of us or our families that day.

I hope to god there are no muppets at the game next week and we beat you fair and square, or maybe with a couple of dodgy decisions, we know you love them! :)

JFT96
GDS

Agree2 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 16:21:59
Would not be surprised to see a midfield 3 against Wigan tomorrow. Chicharito and Valencia have both travelled quite far this week and would not be surprised if Fergie went in with 3 in the park to go against the 3-4-3 of wigan this season.

My team for tomorrows game based on the international fixtures this week...

---------------De Gea----------
Rafael--Ferdinand--Vidic--Buttner

--------------Scholes------------
----------Carrick--Cleverley------

Valencia------Welbeck------Nani-

RedKnight

Believable3 Unbelievable5

I think we'll see a run out for young Ryan on Saturday!

Also, you must of had one heck of a week RedKnight if you think it's Friday already!

Ports

Agree3 Disagree1

____________De Gea

Rafael___Ferdinand___Vidic___Evra

___________Carrick
_____Cleverley___Giggs

Valencia_____Welbeck____Young

Not my choice but what I think the team will be. If Young hasn't recovered then possibly Nani.

Ports

Agree0 Disagree0

Trust me Ports I have... Just dragging myself over the line to get to Saturdays game, highlight of my week

RedKnight

Agree1 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 15:12:20
For some of us who are worried about the injured double of Kagawa and RVP i would say NO PANICK, we have Cleverley and Carrick to handle the midfield while Scholes our machine/weapon will be on bench reading and getting ready to transform the midfield in second half.
In our attack we have Welbeck and Chicha who can also give any defence a run for their money being supported by our flanks arsenal in Tony V and Nanni. I tell you in such atmosphere graced by our home fans we'll win Wigan. Despite current injury we're still blessed with come back of Cleverley and Ando. It's not the end 4 United. CHEERS

SAMFORD01

Believable4 Unbelievable5

13 Sep 2012 15:08:37
Is Evra injured? Seems to be a lot of talk about Buttner starting against Wigan.

Evans had a knock on his ankle.
Jones, Smalling & Young are still out.
Kagawa, Rooney & RvP have concerns.
Valencia & Chicharito have travelled far this week.

Looks like our choice against Wigan is
DDG
Rafael
Vidic
Rio
Buttner
Valencia
Carrick
Scholes
Nani
Chicharito
Welbeck
Subs: Lindegaard, Wootton, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher, Powell, Henriquez.

Believable0 Unbelievable1

I think the manager wants to give Buttner a game before he plays against Liverpool. I think RVP & Evans will be okay for Wigan and expect Cleverley to play in the hole or in a more advanced role than Carrick and Scholes. I think Kagawa, Rooney & Young will all return for Liverpool.

___________DDG
Rafael__Ferdy___Vidic__Butts
__Clevers__Carrick__Scholes
Valencia___V.Persie___Welbeck

Sydney!

Agree1 Disagree2

Büttner went off injured for the U21's the other night mate.

Agree0 Disagree0

I think chicharito might get a game , also think evans may play some part
jred

Agree0 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 14:54:09
Fletcher has played 3 full under 21's games & is training with the first team. Does anyone think he could be called up for the cup game soon or even get some time against Wigan. I remember Hargreaves being drafted in against Wolves & no-one had a clue he was going to start or even up for a start or even fit or even alive. (he lasted 5mins)

Powell is a big summer signing for someone so young I'm sure he'll get a look in soon maybe off the bench this weekend if we score a couple early.

Believable3 Unbelievable0

13 Sep 2012 14:47:45
Thankfully the truth has been revealed about Hillsborough....Justice has finally been brought for the 96.

It's such a shock even today how something of that magnitude could have ever happened at a football game.

I personally believe the glorious game of football brought to rest on that one day (15th April) as we respect those who lost their lives supporting their club.

Liverpool fans, or Manchester United fans, Eveton fans, Arsenal fans etc. we're all football fans in the end, who love the game of football. We all, bar that minute few, feel for 'Pool and the families/friends of the 96 who perished that day.

JFT96

MPez

Believable11 Unbelievable1

13 Sep 2012 09:25:37
To all the Mancs that posted their kind words on here and our page.

Thank you, from LFC fans.

Blair Mayne YNWA JFT96

Believable17 Unbelievable1

Can I ask, will certain Police commissioners and any others who covered this up be getting in any trouble, or is this as far as it will be going? Is this now finished or is the more to come? Thanks.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I would expect the Attorney General will be asked to consider what action comes next.}

Agree1 Disagree0

It seems this will not be over for some time then. Will the families truly ever be able to rest? It's not looking that way at the moment.

Sydney!

Agree2 Disagree1

Syd I doubt the families will ever be able to rest, if anything yesterdays report will have pissed them off more

Will be interesting to see how they deal with it, I think any punishment will be puny

Pardoe

Agree2 Disagree0

13 Sep 2012 00:04:42
Liverpool fan hear

Thanks for your support

Do think we can now use this to stop the moronic signing from both sides on our club tragedies!

Chris r

Believable18 Unbelievable0

Unfortunately, no.

There will always be those moronic sections of our clubs support who have no idea about the true despair each tragedy has cause our respective clubs, and sing these songs as they believe it makes them bigger, and funny.

It's a shame that the 1% of our respective clubs' support ruin it for the other 99%.

MPez

Agree16 Disagree0

Perhaps the 99% can tell the 1% to shut up?

AJH

Agree14 Disagree0

I think its great that fans come together to respect such tragic losses.

sod the minority, they are not true fans they are tossers heartless cretins who dont seem to look at the bigger picture.

Roll on the derby in a couple of weeks!

MS85

Agree7 Disagree0