Manchester United Banter Archive December 14 2012

 

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14 Dec 2012 23:06:12
Anything to these Steven Defour rumors Eds? I know we looked at him before...wasn't there an injury issue or something?

Andy! {Ed002's Note - I really don't know of any Defour rumours - sorry.}

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14 Dec 2012 21:54:04
Realisticly the targets that we can hope to get are hummels, lewandowski, Rodriguez, nagatomo, strootman, wanayama, ince, Ogbonna and Felliani who I would love to see

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Personally i'd only see Ince and Strootman as likely out of that list. Fellaini, Wanyama and Nagatomo are incredibly valuable to their respective teams and in the case of Fellaini and Wanyama, their clubs will want serious amounts of cash for them. Rodriguez also wouldn't come cheap, it's well known that getting players from Portugal is neither cheap nor easy. Having lost Kagawa already, Dortmund will be reluctant to sell two of their best players. Hummels would be a great fit for United, as would Lewandowski (had of RVP not become available I think we would be making a move next summer). Baines, Strootman and Ince are likely in my view and a CB, but i'm unsure as to who it will be.

Andy!

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Ogbonna has just had major groin surgery and out for a few months, so he is not a realistic choice.

I also believe Hummels will end up at Barca.

Shahram

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Native germans rarely leave germany.i don t think we have a hope we gotze,hummels etc

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15 Dec 2012 00:20:40
i seem to remember pretty much all the 1990 world cup winning squad and a good chunk of the 1996 euro winning squad playing outside of germany. The decline in quality of the german national side made their players less attractive to foreign sides. Now the german fa has taken steps to improve youth academies german club sides have improved and are pushing through a lot of good talent into the national side. Its not quite translated into winning tournaments yet. But german players are becoming attractive to foreign sides again. However given the current economic situation in europe its probably better for them to remain in germany unless the actively want a different challenge or experience.

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Has Fellaini ever been an actual target? It's kinda embarrassing when Utd fans think he'd improve our first team.

M.D.

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14 Dec 2012 20:04:38
Sometimes I wonder what a team SAF and Wenger could have been. One with his eye for good players and developing them and the other, well doing what he does best.
Can anyone think of a better team of managers old or new?

PeterPan

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SAF and Carlos Queiroz, we were playing very good football when he was Fergie's right-hand man, to be honest, it has all gone downhill from there really. Our 2008 squad was very good, Queiroz left in 2008/09 and that's when we started playing predictable football.

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Sharky and George....

They managed crime in the sea to an impressive level

Gav

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SAF and Carlos Queiroz, we were playing very good football when he was Fergie's right-hand man, to be honest, it has all gone downhill from there really. Our 2008 squad was very good, Queiroz left in 2008/09 and that's when we started playing predictable football.

Kez. (Forgot to put name!)

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They were THE crime busters of the sea

DodgyBanter

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14 Dec 2012 19:55:04
I keep trying to put the Rooney saga to bed as you saw by my posts a couple of days ago but some of you are obsessed. One of you even started quoting Bosnich (Who is really in the know after being kicked out of the club). Let me just say I have been privie to some information and seen documents regarding Rooney's proposed move to City. Let me tell you that was no bluff he was going and a wage had been agreed. You may not like it you may want to hear it you may want to call me a liar if it makes you feel better. But he stayed because we matched City's offer and for no other reason. He even tried to use the no ambition rubbish and anti Glazer stuff. He was going for more money and he didn't care where he went. You may idolise him you may love him but I see him for what he is. And one of you mentioned the sale of Stamm. Well remember who's son made a couple of million out of that deal. No wonder the Glazers can tell him how high to jump. I AM KLOOT

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Question KLOOT, Tevez or Rooney?

Ports

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Christ Klooty - the mear thought or mention of money seems to poison your soul - money infects all of sport (music and art as well) - that Rooney signed a deal for money wow what a shock ! - lighten up or get help.

Mike

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KLOOT I used that quote purely to emphasize a point. I did not say that Bosnich was right. I am not "privy" to information on transfers but I should have known that you were. I almost forgot that living in Old Traffords shadow comes with many benefits. My only question is why is he still at the club?

Darren-Bermuda

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So some players st united are getting paid to play and if another team paid them more they would move
Do the fa know

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I never thought I'd say this but I agree with RAINY. We all want a better payday but the way Rooney went about it was disgraceful. The Sir Alex of yesteryear would have had none of his antics. Ill cheer when he scores of course but ill never hold in my heart with other United legends. It's a shame because he would have went down as a United legend but ruined it all for a few extra cars and a bigger house.

Mumbles

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KLOOT,

I would never question your integrity but even if you have seen such documents you surely cannot know what was inside Rooney's head when he signed them i.e. you don't know why he stayed even if he did sign for the same amount of money?! So, are you saying that you saw contracts offered to him by both United and City? Otherwise how would you know he only stayed because he was offered the same money? You would be merely speculating.

Also, you say "he was going for money and he didn't care where he went" - isn't it kind of a coincidence that he is still at United then? I'm sure if City really wanted they could have offered him an extra £20k or even £50k per week? We certainly wouldn't just pay out an unlimited amount and I'm very confident City could have bettered our offer.

So I don't see how that theory adds up TBH.

Perhaps Rooney was just after a wage that his talent at that point deserved? i.e. in line with the best performers in the PL.

Does anyone really disagree with the fact that he is one of our biggest earners along RVP? Again, I wouldn't like to question what goes on at the club but who's to know that we were'nt trying to get him to sign a contract for much lower than he deserved?

It's just my opinion that we shouldn't get too embroiled in matters like this as fans. As far as I can see not one of us knows exactly what went on back then.

I'm certainly not advocating Rooney or his agent's actions but I think we should just judge him on what he does on the pitch, and that alone.

To try and judge it any other way is treating our club like a pantomime or a piece of cheap entertainment in my mind. Let the guys at the top make the decisions and lets the supproters 'support'.

As Jred has said previously I haven't seen any other player show more commitment and desire to win games for us over the last 3 years than Rooney. Love him or hate him, he tries his best, whatever position he is asked to play.

Last point, 10 GOALS VERSUS CITY! Come on give the guy a break ; )

Gav

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"I nearly signed for juventus ,people said to me this and that about Turin and said Milan would be nice , I told them I'm not going for the shops I'm going because it's juventus" Roy kean
Thankfully we agreed to his wage demands and he signed an other contract with us
Jred

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P.s. KLOOT you caught me in a feisty, apres-booze mood! : ) the other day I was happy to agree to disagree but now what have you done! Lol

Gav

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Rooney is not a United fan but he gives his all on the pitch for us, he may not always play well but he always tries his best. If Rooney got offered more to play elsewhere I don't blame him for using it to get a better deal out of Gill and co.It happens everywhere, get offered more money to go elsewhere and your employer either matches it or loses you, it's life. Keane and Rio had to rock the boat to get a rise and Vidic when his wife supposedly wanted warmer climbs but no one criticised them like the stuff Rooney gets.
My only annoyance with Rooney is funnily enough that he has set his son up to support Everton, the blue bedroom etc, yet all his greatest achievements to tell his son about will be in red. Just rankles with me a little otherwise I am glad he plays for us not the opposition.

Red Man

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14 Dec 2012 18:34:58
nick powell seems to be fitting in nicely, and will only get better! surely its time for some of the other academy to step 'up' and show they can swing with the big boys oppose to us saying how brilliant they are and show everyone!

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Nick Powell did not come through our academy...SAF seems a lot more willing to play younster's who he's signed rather than those who have come from the academy. I'm not sure what this means for us...

Gav

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Gav the only ones to come from the academy in recent times is Evans, Cleverley and Welbeck all of whom have had to go out on loan first.

The rest are for the majority too young for the first team all being 18 or so, we don't want to burn them out too young a la Owen.

Unless you refer to Petrucci who's a bit injury prone for my liking.

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Noname,

That is a fair point. I guess it's just that SAF trusts 18/19 year olds who have had 1st team experience elsewhere over our own 18/19 year olds from the academy. I'm not saying this is wrong but it does question the merits of a youngster going into the academy of a top club over staying with a more local side. When you see players like Powell, Ramsey, Oxlaide-Chamberlain etc. who get experience then get an immediate chance at a top club it makes you wonder which route is best for a youngster....

Gav

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I have a few mates that went over to England to play ball. One had a chance to sign for Liverpool, Arsenal but he chose to go to Villa. Hoping he could break through there easier. He got MOTM when Villa played Everton in the youth cup final when Rooney played. He left to go to Bournemouth and injury cut his career short.

Other one went to Liverpool. He was offered to renew his contract. He thought he could get a better contract at Palace. The Palace one broke down. When he went back to Liverpool to accept there's, they said they'd filled their quota of players. He played League of Ireland for awhile.

The other one went to Arsenal. He was offered a new contract with them but turned it down to play at Falkirk. His dream is to play for Celtic. Never quite happened. He's played for a few League 2 sides and a few SPL sides. Just grinding out a career.

I think if you're good enough you'll make it but careers can be decided by a single decision that could make or brake you.

Mumbles

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15 Dec 2012 00:05:48
Players like powell or oxlade have more experience, albeit at a lower level, than academy players the same age. They've played in meaningful competitive games with the pressure that goes with it which gives them a slight advantage over academy players. Which is why we loan our academy players out to championship sides to gain that experience. Arsenal chuck their players in at the deep end in a sink or swim if their good enough they'll make it sort of thing. Which does work to an extent as players like wilshire gain valuable experience. The flip side is though that it exposes young still physically developing players to one of the most physically demanding leagues before their bodies can actually cope with it leading to lots of repetitive injuries. Just look at the amount of youth players everton and arsenal have fielded over the last decade and the injury records of those players.

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14 Dec 2012 18:27:03
Ok get rid of the dead wood, Nani Giggs scholes etc and I'm sure rio is past it and VIDIC is becoming more injury prone than ever.....

While we argue over who to buy let's all first focus on the key areas that need replacing.

LB, CB, CM, DM,

can Philip jones command the cm, dm position

Can Smalling ever be a Rio in CB

Can fabio or Buttner do LB

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Smalling is a definite yes.

Jones, unsure, think we need to find his position first then give him a run at it. I don't think its centreback at the moment as when everyone is fit he's 5th choice so i think he's waiting on departures. Maybe midfield could be a shot?

Buttner is still a bit too raw and needs to just be cover at the moment and learn. i like the lad though, he has something.

Fabio i think would be better used to cover rightback and maybe even in some games play in front of his brother on the wing, that could be interesting.

LB we do need, CB it deoends on departures, i can see Rio getting an extension and Vidic leaving, some interesting remarks from him earlier about Italy. I think he's prepping the way to go.

I don't think we need an out and out DM as the game has moved on but certainly a box to box high energy driver who likes a tackle is needed.

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I don't usually ridicule people on here, and although i agree Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs are coming to the end of their illustrious careers, to band them as 'dead wood' is hugely disrespectful. They have given everything to our club and have helped make it what it is today.
You are either a 'person' or know nothing about loyalty and class.
Flyhalfmitch.

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I disagree with the positions that need strengtheing, LB and CM/DM yes but we do not need a CB atm

Gav

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Mitch whilst i fully appreciate your point and both are total legends they do seriously need to go this summer. It got to the point where it was a total joke that we were looking to a pair of 38 year olds as first choice in our midfield. We were a laughing stock in the league never mind Europe.

For a club of our ambitions and aspirations we never should have ended up in that position and he buck clearly stops with the manager.

As i said total legends but they are now tarnishing that reputation. Giggs already has. Scholes was the greatest player of his generation but he should have gone back in June, he should have made it clear he only came out of retirement to get us through last season. He still has a wonderful football brain and his passing ability but his engine has gone and he can no longer get through games apart from 20 minute bursts. Giggs is even worse, he was reliant on pace and dribbling neither of which he has anymore, he still has his footballing brain as you see him attempt the pass but he can no longer pull it off. He should have gone out on a high afetr moscow, but instead he's on some selfish personal glory quest to rack up an appearance record that can't be brokem. Now there's talk of a contract extension? Why? Giggs is taking up a valuable squad spot that could go to someone like Petrucci for example.

Legends yes but they need to go so we can remember them as they were not how they are. Thanks for the effort, the goals, the cups and trophies but for the good of the club retire. They can still offer something but not as players.

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Gav

I would add left winger as well.

shahram

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I agree with you to a point, I still believe they both have something to offer the squad, especially in the F.A.Cup when Sir Alex will probably mix a mainly young team with the likes of Scholes and Giggs to add some experience, giving the first team players a rest when that weekend comes around. I would imagine this could well be their last season.
My beef with you was your inappropriate choice of words 'dead wood' United fans have been blessed with some awesome talent through the years and these two stars have shone bright over the last 2 decades.
maybe it was a throw away comment not meaning to disrespect them but i took offense to it, and if you didn't mean to disrespect them i except your retraction in advance.
P.S. it would be a help to everyone if people put a name or character to their posts and comments.
Flyhalfmitch.

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Shahram

I agree so long as we shift on Nani. Not sure why I left that out TBH!

Gav

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LBH they are taking up valuable posistions, they have been GREAT servants from the late 90's to the late 00's.... but its pasts them. Scholes might last 20 or so mins and everyone knows he pulled us through a dark spot last season, but had he not returned we would have finished outside the top 4 and prompting SAF to do buisness. I can bet if we do win the EPL scholesy will retire and i wish giggs would do... as this will not only make room and pave the way for talent but prompt SAF to find the same caliber of player that once was

Reddevilfan

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14 Dec 2012 17:43:41
You have 35 million who do you sign?
I'd say Baines 12 million, wanyama 20 million and 3 million on will Hughes.

Who would you all sign? Or would you spend it all on Rodriguez?

Caolán.

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Just for fun and not including all costs of a transfer I would go for Baines, Strootman & Fischer.

Sydney!

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Scratch that, Baines, Strootman & Vadillo.

Sydney!

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14 Dec 2012 18:44:16
Baines is a must buy, not sure on the need for Hughes as we have enough young prospects we need someone thats the finished article, mid 20's to come in for centre midfield. Not convinced by Strootman or Wanyama especially 20 million for Wanyama. Vadillo could be an interesting one.

Myself, Baines, McCarthy & Zaha.

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Goetze.

Shahram

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Baines and Cabaye.

Jono

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Fabio Coentrao, McCarthy and Lucas Piazon.

-JakeW

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Baines, McCarthy and a kennel full of dogs.

Danny Pughnited

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I certainly wouldn't pay £20m for Wanyama!

Gav

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What!! I have £35million!!! Season ticket for life, a holiday Villa on the Italian coast nr Sorrento, a classic Ferrari and the rest on wine, women and song!!........... Damn you mean i have to spend it on players for United? Ok, Bains and Strootman .......... and a Ferrari.
Flyhalfmitch.

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LOL, Flyhalf your first plan sounded much better and I would also add a boat in there.

Shahram

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I'm actually coming round to Jono's way of thinking, I think a midfield of Carrick & Cabaye could be half decent. If we could add Baines an Rodriguez on top of that we would be sorted IMO

Gav

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Gav

There is genuinely no real reason for us not looking at him other than SAF not liking him as he fits the bill for our deep playmaker role with a bit of box to box added in. If we had those three signings and a second CMer like Khadira I think we would be feared by any team in the world.

----------Linders (haha)
Rafa--Smalls-Vidic--Baines
------Khadira-Cabaye
Kagawa-Rooney-Rodriguez
----------RVP

Not bad IMO.

Jono

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Loving the love for Baines! In the summer he had a lot of doubters in this forum.
There's not many left backs that are as effective as him right now.

M.D.

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Jono like the team, swap Rodriguez and kagawa over mind and think about replacing Vidic and thats it.

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14 Dec 2012 17:41:53
Question? Why would a player who's team has made it into the knock out stages change team in January and not play in the knockout stages?
The reason i ask is the player linked, Gotze, Rodriguez, Lewandoski etc are all in this position.
Just can't see them happening.

Dishforth Red.

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None will happen and some are not even attainable in the summer.

shahram

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We won't sign any of those in January

Gav

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That's what I'm saying Gav, people getting exited about these marque signings but they aren't goog to happen I they come from a champions league team, who does that leave?
Dishforth Red

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14 Dec 2012 17:30:30
I have read all the posts on Nani recently and let me say i am not his biggest fan, however, the season before last and the beginning of last season, he started to change my opinion. I thought that the penny had finally dropped, then came the poor form at the end of last season and it continued into this. The argument for me doesn't stand up when considering for and against because the form we have seen from him is past tense. I am not talking about singular games he was brilliant in, i am talking about a loss of form for about a year now. Imagine if that was Rooney/Ferdy/Evans/Carrick......wait for it EVRA! We would all to a man want to end there time with United full stop. We cannot afford to carry deadwood for this amount of time, no matter how much "potential" he has, he might never realise it anyhow.

All the best.

Dishforth Red.

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I kind of agree...imagine if Rooney played so poorly for the last 18 months...then perhaps we could agree with KLOOT'S posts! There's poor form and then there's poor form....

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 16:12:49
Mancini says the derby proved City are the better team. Why won't any of the journalist put it to him that we should have been 3.0 up and game over if the officials done their jobs properly. It seems City have used this bad publicity about the coin throwing etc to cover up the fact that we should have won the game by some distance with the disallowed goal and the penalty.

Sydney!

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It's annoying how nothing was mentioned on how we completely dismantled City up to the disallowed goal. All that has been said is that we were lucky, they played better football blah blah. There is more than one way to win a football match and SAF got this one spot on with the tactics. I think Mancini is running scared and he is trying to give his faltering "superstars" a lift because he knows that they have a tough Christmas period and if we kick on we could be way out in front come Feb.

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That is exactly what Mancini is doing, but what is frustrating and quite frankly odd is that not one journalist has mentioned that we pulverised them up until the disallowed goal and should have went 3.0 up. It's like City have the journalists in their pocket.

Sydney!

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Little him say they were the better team. He is trying to deflect criticism from himself. He was thoroughly out managed in the game and I'm surprised the media hasn't grilled him on his team selection and subs. We are in the Champions League and they will be watching us on the tele. The hardest thing to do in sports is to repeat as champions. City and Mancini look satisfied with what they did last year and that wouldn't happen at our club.

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Nothing mentioned about their two year unbeaten record dismantled, nothing about Tevez' actions. Yet Wenger is bombarded in his interviews.

Sydney!

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Agree Syd, i think it's to do with the fact that SAF is very coy in our press conferences and Mancini just gives them what they want. If i was writing a story about the subject the headline would be something like "Childish Mancini refuses to grow up" (not meant to be funny, just grown up) because thats what it sounds like, my teams better than you team, can't believe managers still get away with it.

Dishforth Red.

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I actually feel sorry for Wenger, whether it was his decision or the board to sell his best players, he has a proven eye for talent.

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14 Dec 2012 19:30:00
they do have the journo's in their pockets. You only have to see how they fawn over them on twitter

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Who cares, so many people complain about SAF's press conferences and the media's opinion of us. Let's not add to this and make it seem like we give a rubbish. City are desperate and I for one am enjoying that...

Gav

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Gav, it's not that mate, it's just with a little pressure from the media side of things the more pressure is on Mancini, therefore the more pressure is on the players. When we are down the media kick us, when City are down they try and help them up.

Sydney!

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Mancini is s..t coach. Most decent coaches would do a lot better with that team and the players they have. He spent almost as much as us I believe in the summer and they have gone backwards from last year.

I love how Mourinho treats him like dirt and refuses to even acknowledge him LOL

Shahram

He is gone at the end of this season anyway

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Sydney!

I hear your point but still I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both sides of the city. Many neutrals complain about the exposure SAF and his comments have in the media but I just see that as an advantage he has earned from his vast experience and success. I wouldn't like to moan about how other teams get preferencial treatment as I've heard that argument levelled at us so often over the years.

Don't get me wrong though, there's nothing I would like more than to see pressure on Mancini and the rest of them. It's going to happen at some point if their away form doesn't improve. Let's hope it becomes their downfall!

Gav

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Does anyone know if the FA can punish or fine Mancini after his comments about the Barry suspension. He is basically saying it's ok to verbally abuse referees after a loss where emotions are high.

This guy is a real donkey and glad he is at city

Shahram

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14 Dec 2012 16:08:14
I think that there is only a few things to say about Nani. Firstly, he is supremly talented, up there with the best of them. However - if he had the work ethic and mentality of Chicharito then I think that he would be a world beater. If no one comes in for him with a decent offer in January he does have a chance of staying - providing that he changes his attitude as that is his biggest downfall.

Fresh!

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This is an intersting point.... let's be honest here, who remember's the last time Nani had a good game? It's embarrassing how un-often it occurs

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 15:12:23
Bebe.

G.A.G.U.S

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New found love GAGUS?

Fresh!

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This was meant to be a reply to who my favourite player was. Feel like a t!t now lol.

If Bebe took 10 penalties, he would score 11.

G.A.G.U.S

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Gagus if he got a penalty he wouldn't know what to do with it!

Caolán.

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14 Dec 2012 14:53:45
The general consensus on here seems to be that people do not have a very high opinion of Rooney. I don't understand why though? Could anyone explain?

GD

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14 Dec 2012 16:33:44
to quote Ed2 "use the search function"

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I have a very high opinion of Rooney...so perhaps I'm an outsider? IMO anyone who thinks he's not that important to United knows very little. If he was to leave us then those who belittled him would be shown uo as real i'diots IMO

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 15:18:27
Hi guys,

I've still been reading this site during my breaks in the studio and whatnot but I've not really had the time to post much over the last few months.

but, I've got some time now so I thought I'd join in on a few of the debates flying around.

Firstly, Nani...Well he's an odd one. He's got absolutely bundles of talent and I mean bundles, catch him on a good day and you'll wonder whether or not he's Ronaldo is disguise...

Now, here is my issue with good ol' Nani and Percy this is something I want you to understand. we ALL know how good he is and how much talent he has but what use is him having it when he doesn't show it enough because of his inconsistency issue. That is why we believe he will be sold.

Is he better than Valencia? hard question really, it's like saying is Xavi better than Iniesta - although they supply the forward line with opportunities to score they do it using different methods. as a stand alone goal threat and general ability Nani is better however in terms of a footballing brain, crossing ability, defensive capabilities and just doing his job well I would say that Valencia is better.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Percy things Nani is a terrific player. his stats over the years have been good, but what good is 15 assists in a season if you've wasted 50 potential assists with selfishness and the inability to make a decision?

He's an incredible talent but I think it'll be best for both himself and ourselves if he left, he can find his feet and make a fresh start abroad and we can have a player like Gaitan, Rodriguez, etc. who although MAY WELL BE lacking in ability they will hopefully make up for it in consistency.

Now, my second issue is Fabio...

Many of us talk about how good he was when he first arrived, about how he was the better twin, etc. well players develop differently we all know this. Personally I don't know what will happen with Fabio but I do think Buttner will play LB and LM next year, Fabio will play both wings and both full back positions and Baines (hopefully) will keep the LB position to himself like Rafael does at RB.

This is what I like about Fabio and Buttner, they don't HAVE to be wing backs, they're versatile and young enough to be molded into wingers, or even out and out attacking players.

We do have some interesting times ahead.

Quick question for everyone on here....

Would you prefer to have an injury free Fabio playing in whatever position of your choice next season or would you rather see him sold and Baines being signed to play first choice LB. (if this had no impact on the rest of our signings).

Have a great weekend guys,

The Moon.

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I like the sound of baines being signed and buttner playing left wing. I like fabio but i think 2 years of being a sub and learning his trade from baines would be a great idea.

Some good points no the less moon.

Joe.a

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In the studio?

Intriguing, what's your job if you don't mind me asking Moon?

Jono

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Moon is in a band by the sound of it...what name does your band go by, Moon? I am intrigued!

I agree with you on Baines, I think he would really, really improve us.

I am not a fan of playing players out of position though, so would not like to see either Buttner or Fabio on the wing. That's just crazy talk IMO.

Gav

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Joe.a

I think it would be worth a shot. I also like the sound of Buttner at LM and Fabio at LB the interchange down that handside would leave the opposing fullback totally confused about which man to look at.

Jono

I have 2 music studios, and we've been busy lately so I've had to join my engineers in the studio as they're finding it hard to keep on top of things :).

Gav -

I wish I was in a band, sadly all I manage to do is write songs and produce for the people with the talent haha. still you'll hear no complaints from me! it's a fun job :).

I'm personally not one for playing people out of position but if every manager believed in keeping everyone in their positions we would have never seen the likes of Henry, Messi or Ronaldo.

So, it might just be a master stroke or a complete failure. - it's what makes football so exciting.

The Moon.

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Buttner is in fact a winger who is being made tto play as a lb. Even before we signed him I pointed this out to those on here who had no knowledge of the lad previously.

Like Evra he was signed whilst playing as a wb/lm and is being moulded into a lb. He is a decent player in defence but when he has licence to bomb forward then he is deadly.

Buttner is very much like Marcelo at madrid, very good going forward but little suspect in defence.

As for fabio well as like most who waited for th elad to join us and then saw him progress to the pont where he was our best rb and definitely the better of both twins.

However i feel his best position is much further forward. Anyone else remember him playing as a number 10 for the reserves? or on the lw? he was a much better player in both positions and i feel this mainly due to him not having the positional brain needed to play as a top draw lb.

However i feel both would need a baines type player just to sit in the space behind and offer the defencive cover and offencive outlet.

Paso

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14 Dec 2012 12:59:32
Some say this Nani debate will continue for years, decades or even centuries.

We will argue with our grandchildren about the legend that is Luis Nani.

-JakeW

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Legend ?

Ross

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Ross, look up the true meaning of the word legend mate. I don't think JakeW means it in the modern context.

TK-Red

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Ross I am taking the piss out of all this hype of the Nani situation, Nani is obviously not a legend.

-JakeW

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Just seen Wengers latest interview.Jesus christ he looks a right mess, aged 10 years overnight, bloodshot eyes.Fergie sees off another one
Blackpool Red

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Wenger does look stressed doesn't he. His skin is getting saggier by the day too. That's why he wears the long coat these days, to keep his lower face warm.

TK-Red

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Fergy saw off Wenger 8 years ago.

Ste-Utd

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TK, I think he hides his ironing board under the coat. He irons his face around three times a day.

Sydney!

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I hope he isnt getting forgetful in his old age then....I dread to think what might happen. We've all left the iron on that favourite shirt before.

TK-Red

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TK, I think he purposely burnt his favourite RvP shirt ;)

Sydney!

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14 Dec 2012 12:54:48
Welcome back captain!! :D

James

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14 Dec 2012 11:29:58
When Fabio & Rafael arrived at Old Trafford it was suggested that Fabio was the more talented.

Fabio is right footed like his twin but has always said he wants to play left back or left midfield so he can play with his brother & not fight for the same position. He played mainly left midfield for Brazil at the youth World Cup and he was captain. He's surprisingly good in the air (as he's scored a few headers for his country) also he was renowned to be a free-kick specialist.

Has he made a mistake not competing with his brother for the right back position? He's was trusted to play RB in a European Final not so long back.

In the summer all the talk of buying a LB like Baines or even Cole was rumoured it seems like Fergie doesn't fancy him as a LB. We eventually took the cheap option 3.5m Buttner to compete with Evra.

Where does this leave Fabio next summer???????

1- New LB bought & 1 or 2 of Evra, Fabio, Buttner sold.
2- Fabio First cover for RB & LB (what about Buttner then?).
3- Evra sold and Fabio replaces him & Buttner as back up.
4- Is Fabio going to surprise us all & play LM/LW.

Either way I think we have a forgotten gem in our Ranks that could possibly be a great addition to our squad next season. Come on Fabio find that bit of magic & spark that bought u to the Theatre of Dreams in the first place.

TJ

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I think the Fabio debate is a good one TJ. Jred believes Fabio could be sold in the summer. I think QPR could be last chance saloon, but I think if the manager sells him then he has missed a trick too. I think him and Rafael at RB would be great competition and we all know twins enjoy their competition with each other. Baines and Buettner for LB and the twins for RB would do just fine IMO.

Sydney!

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I reckon that next season our two left backs will be Baines & Fabio. I'm fairly sure that this will be Evra's last seaosn, and I also think that Buttner may be loaned out - some say that he is too old but he is very raw and needs more first team experience.

Fresh!

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Sydney

I haven't seen Tyler Blackett recently but you haven't included him, why?

Red Man

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I'm with Syd! in that I think Fabio should forget about being a LB because as he has matured he seems to have grown out of the role to an extent and makes a much better RB. I've said for a long time that I see the twins as the Nevilles with Rafael being the first choice at RB and Fabio being a squad player that can provide support at both full back positions whilst never being a regular starter. I'm delighted that Rafael has started maturing as a player. I have been one of a few people on here who have always said he could be our RB for the next 10-12 years and he is now starting to show real top class consistency.

TK-Red

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I see Tyler Blackett three years away from being ready. I think he will finish playing in the U21's this season then a season long loan in the Championship, then the EPL for a year or two. I am sure he will replace Buettner in the future.

Sydney!

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I believe selling Fabio would be a major mistake.
he was ahead of Rafael in his development when they arrived, but was overtaken due to Rafael getting minutes on pitch while he was blocked by Evra.
I believe Fabi ois earmarked as direct replacement to Evra, but needed minutes, therefor the loan to QPR.
Büttner is here simply to have an body to throw in should Evra be injured or need a rest.

Jonny8

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J8, I think if Fabio was truly earmarked to replace Evra then he would have been rotated with him far more than he was last season. Jred mentioned something about the fitness team having issues with his lack of effort, something to do with suspecting he was feigning injury. I am not so sure about that, but he does look to have a problem with injuries.

Sydney!

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I think the reason he was not rotated with Evra in the last years is that we were incorporating a new RB, Rafael.
You don't want to have two "weak" spots in the back four at the same time. and RB was definitely the position to act first.
Add to that the lost enthusiasm of SAF to experiment and blood youngsters in.

Now that we have RB sorted we can look at LB. I am sure SAF was hoping to see Fabio play week in, week out and make steps in the right direction like Rafael did in the last years.

Didn't know about the injury accusations and finding it hard to believe, what would be the motivation?
Or was he just refusing to come back early and play through pain, which in my book is a smart move at such a young age.

Jonny8

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J8, I think you are dead on there mate, that was probably SAF's thinking, but to be fair Evra has been our weakest link for the past three seasons.

Sydney!

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I agree with Syd that Fabio doesn't seem to be at the fore front of SAF's plans. He needs to have a very goos 2nd half of the season at QPR to get into our team IMO

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 11:10:17
Just to let folk know, United U18's are playing Sporting Lisbon LIVE on MUTV NOW.

Sydney!

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Syd and others, Is there a stream link you guys know of.. would luv to watch this one.. Benoit

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You can find it live on usagoals.

Mick

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14 Dec 2012 11:03:14
anyone watching the under 19's against lisbon? Wilson just scored a good goal. Looks a prospect.

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Under 19's spanked 4-1 by Sporting Lisbon.2 Late goals.Only watched second half but utd outclassed
Blackpool Red

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14 Dec 2012 16:51:41
they tired in the heat and humidity

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14 Dec 2012 11:02:26
Sunderland fan here i for one was actually gutted you lost the title last season it was just a small majority of the south west corner at the staium of light who thought it would be funny to do the poznan they clearly have no idea about football as your team has been has just managed to produce great teams from the early 90's to now man united are a joy to watch while city have basically bought the title you lot will always be the true champions regardless of tomorrow good luck this season hope yous's do it...again

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Fans like you I respect, every club has their group of tw*ts in the crowds, we just have to learn to deal with them.

-JakeW

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Well said mate, good point. Perhaps not all Sundelrand fans are cun#s ; )

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 11:00:36
Morning all,

Been keenly reading the Nani debate, and there's some very interesting points that have been raised so far.

To throw my 10p in if I may. As most United supporters, I do get really frurstrated with Nani and in particular his consistancy. Over the last few years, there's been shimers of what a player he 'could' become. Honestly, that 1 game per season where he's almost unplayable, it's fantastic to watch. One that comes to mind is a cup game a few years ago at Old Trafford verses Arsenal, where he completely ran the show, and lumps were being kicked out of him because he was basically taking the p*ss out of the Arsenal back four. Unfortunately, we just haven't seen this form enough. As Roy Keane once said, even if you're personally having a bad game, you still need to contribute. I'd probably turn a blind eye to the little flicks, un-successful dribbles, etc. If he just got the basics correct. Beating the 1st man on a corner, making a yard of space simply for a telling cross, tracking back and assisting his full-back. I think we'd all support Nani if the basics were done constantly. United fans are not fickle, and are not unreasonable either. Look at Diego Forlan for example. We loved him, and still sing his name. Why? It wasn't for his goalscoring record was it? It's because he worked his socks off, and did the basics. We as fans, could appreciate this and his efforts.

On the other side of the coin, I do in some sense actually feel sorry for the Nani (please bear with me on this point). Would we all be on his back so much, if his predecessor wasn't one of the greatest players of this generation (i.e. Ronaldo). Ronaldo's boots are very very large to fill, and some would argue impossible to fill. Psychologically, I believe Nani tries to hard to 'be' Ronaldo, and this is his main downfall. Very talented - yes, but unfortunately not in the same league as Cristiano.

For the sake of his own career, I think he needs to move on. I think with less pressure, he could be a very very good player for the right club. Unfortunately however, I think the shadow of Cristiano is just too much for him.

It's just an opinion of mine, and thoughts/comments are more than welcome.

Have a good Christmas all.

WF Red Devil.

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14 Dec 2012 10:33:16
Chris the REDman you do not speak for me on here, and I'm sure there are a few others who who prefer to voice their own opinion than have do it for them.
-------------------
Dodgy get a life mate, It was a turn of pharse, wot are u 10?
So u dnt agree with me? U didnt want nani to come gd? If not fair enuff, I stand corrected. If u did then dnt comr on here singling me out to try and get noticed and get a reply(which it would appear im giving u)
CTR

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CTR - I think by the look of things wires may have crossed between you two by maybe misread or misinterpreted posts .... I think Dodgy just felt that you were trying to speak for him or for others instead of letting them voice there opinion and I think you took his response like a personal attack when he was just merely stating that he doesn't want you to do his talking for him....

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14 Dec 2012 10:24:31
"Good point TK, if Nani didn't have to get back and help Evra out and could stay forward like Ronaldo did he would be a far more effective player.

Sydney!"

Sydney, this is one of the most interesting posts on here for a while. I have to disagree with you to a certain extent. Yes, Nani has defensive duties, but he does not carry them out as he should. Young is far, far better at it than Nani - which you know anyway. How many times did Young save the 'managers pet' against City? You can bet your bottom dollar City would have scored through Evra if Nani was playing.

Regarding Ronaldo, I hated Ronaldo for his lack of teamwork when he was with us. I actually despised him for doing only what suited himself. He expected everyone to work for him, so he could do the flicks and tricks and runs and get the goals to make him look good. It was all about Ronaldo - and SAF allowed it. I think as a player Ronaldo will go down as one of the greatest, but as a team-mate he is someone to despise.
(And yes, I did love Cantona, but he was mercurial, a once-off, a genius)
Nani can be great, but if I was him, knowing that the manager was trying to sell me, I would leave the club - has the man no self-respect. Nani doesn't perform his defensive duties adequately, and I believe he does get the time and freedom to perform to his own, very high ability, but he needs to lift his head and look around. This is basic 10 year old stuff, and he just won't learn it!
And he can't kick a ball over the first mans head when taking a corner - a lot of 10 year olds could do this. Pathetic.

Anyway, rant over.
Btw Sydney! do you think he will be sold in January, and if he is, who do you think SAF will replace him with?
Also, I have a funny feeling we will get Baines, I don't know why, but I think SAF realises he has made a mistake with Buttner, and knows he will never become our first-choice left back. We really, really, really, really, really need to change our left side.
Nani and Evra out - Baines and Rodriguez in!

J Bones.

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J Bones - The difference with Ronaldo not being a 'team player' and Nani is that Ronaldo had the ability to tear a team apart on a constant basis and Nani can do it once every twenty games..... And In my opinion on the Nani and Evra out and who to replace them with I would prefer Rodriguez and Baines too.

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Bones, I agree with everything you have said. I do not think Nani should be allowed to just attack and not defend, but if he played for a team that allowed him to do that I think he would be unplayable. Sadly the EPL is a league where you must help out the fullbacks. He would be a terrific player in La Liga or Serie A. I think he will move in January and I think Serie A is more likely than anywhere else at the moment. Baines and Rodriguez would be great buys.

Sydney!

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J bones, Some players are so effective in an attacking sense that them dropping back to help the team defensivly can be more harmful than useful. Players the calibre of Messi, Ronaldo, Falcao and Van persie are much more needed in attack than in defense.

Now some playersprefer to help the team, like Rooney, but you cant expect everyone to be like Rooney, and, tbh, I think Rooney would bring more goals to the table if he stays in an advanced position.

Unfortunatly for Nani, he is simply not consistently good enough to be in the starting 11 if he is not willing to put in a shift defensivly, since he doesnt have Ronaldo's attacking ability.

That might be considered preferential treatment, but there's a reason Ronaldo is Ballon d'or material and Nani is not.

Mick

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To be fair, Mick, Ronaldo has constantly played in the best teams in Europe over the last several years whilst Nani has been stuck holding the candle for our aging midfield and defence. Obviously Ronaldo is the better player but its like comparing the work of 2 artists. 1 of whom has paint and paint brushes and the other has crayons and an old mop.

TK-Red

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Tk-red how old are may i ask?

Shahram

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I'm 30 years old Shahram. Why do you ask?

TK-Red

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I know what you're saying Mick, but I just think with Ronaldo, it is all about me, me me.
Sydney, that's the problem with letting Nani go. You just know that he is going to be let off his leash and turn into the player Percy (and all of the rest of us) wishes he was now.

J Bones

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TK

The difference is, Ronaldo is a one man team. No matter how bad we are playing, he can win games on his own, and he does. Nani, even though he has just as much talented, cant do it on a regular basis.

Mick

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Nani has won us a fair few games on his own over the years, especially in the 10/11 season. Like you say, he may have not done it on as regular a basis and it is partly to do with the fact that Nani, clearly, is no Ronaldo BUT it is also IMO partly down to the fact that Ronaldo has always played in sides which have been built around him. Nani has never been so fortunate.

TK-Red

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Seriously guys, I am going to puke reading this Nani vs Ronaldo comparison. Not even on the same planet as players. Whatever you guys are drinking or smoking, please pass it along LOL.

How on earth can you guys moan about if Nani had this and if Nani had that he would be great is beyond me, he is a disappointing signing that has delivered a half season in 5 years, get it.

Ronaldo in our current team would destroy guys every week and we would have a fair chance of making a deep run in Europe. He would cost 100 million today and there will be teams who would get the cheque book out to get him.

All we can get for Nani is some Russian club to put in bid or italian clubs with a lowball bids.

Who ever wants a wager I will take it, he will be sh..t where ever he goes next and willing to have someone as middle person arrange it.

Shahram

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I agree with Mick TBH

TK - are you seriously trying to justify how good Ronaldo is compared to Nani by the teammates he has had? Because that is an absolute joke!

If you cannot see that Ronaldo is one of the greatest players of his generation and Nani is only better than average but has had some good moments then I am at a loss!

Syd, I don't get why you're sitting on the fence so much? I can tell from your posts that you don't see Nani as a future United star yet you seem to be afraid to say he's not good enough?

For 6 months of the 2010/2011 season he was world class, but since then he has fluctuated between average and good - at best!

Gav

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Look guys, I'm not being funny but if you are haven't actually read the full conversation on Nani and/or don't understand what the posts say then this is a bit of a pointless exercise. Nobody is/or has ever compared Ronaldo and Nani directly. What I said was that they are similar types of players in that they both benefit when they have a solid structure behind them, something Ronaldo did have, Nani doesn't. If Messi had our midfield and defence playing behind him, I doubt he would look quite as impressive, hence it is unfair to jump on Nani's back to the extent you all are as football isn't as simple as "he is good" or "he is sh!t".

TK-Red

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Sorry posted it in the wrong place.

Syd also thinks he will thrive in Italy which is an interesting one. The italian teams and the league is known for its wide open style of attacking play and teams go up and down the pitch and score freely, where wingers can just stay up the pitch and run at one defender and Nani can show off his dribbling ability :)

Shahram

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14 Dec 2012 09:45:39
i've been thinking about leftbacks. When evra leaves, which correct me if i'm wrong but it'll be this summer as he'll have just twelve months left on his contract. The most obvious replacement is Baines. Top quality, international, best left back in the league. Good set pieces. That leaves Buttner as deputy. I think the plan for this season was just to ease him in and allow us to rest evra properly for the first time in how many seasons. But what happens to Fabio? Well if he's not sold there's two options. I don't really see him fighting with Buttner as second choice left back. But i do see him fighting with his brother at rightback. Cover at first and would allow us to rest Rafael rather than having to move Jones or Smalling across. Also we could use Fabio on the right wing to rest Valencia. Imagine both brothers attacking down one wing, one can cover rightback as the other attacks. Would confuse the opposition.

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I think Fabio is better on the right side anyway and we do need cover there. Baines and Buettner on the left would complete the squad IMO.

Sydney!

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I think that Buttner will always be a squad player, useful for rotation ( either at lm or lb ). If Fabio proves himself on loan, Buttner is more likely to be the one leaving should Baines join us. Fabio is a far better player ( than Buttner) imo.

Mick

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14 Dec 2012 09:26:09
Not sure if this has been covered but what's everybody's thoughts on Nani this season?

Red4eva

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14 Dec 2012 10:00:37
to quote Ed2 "please use the search function"

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Even Sheldon Cooper could tell that was sarcasm ;)

TK-Red

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LOL !

Mick

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14 Dec 2012 09:22:19
For anyone who cares Nani is like marmite there's no in between love or hate

Stagmufc

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Actually I think he's just OK ; )

Good at attacking 1 game in in 3 or 4 but not good defensively

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 09:10:40
Wake me up someone when this Nani debate ends. Getting a little dull and repetitive now.

Fresh!

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In reply to the post slating Ronaldo... Type in "Gary Neville interview about Ronaldo". It explains, in depth how Ronaldo changed everyone's mind about team-work.

How they grew to believe Ronaldo was worth two, maybe three attackers and so wouldn't mind that he wouldn't stick to defensive duties as they knew if he had the ball on the counter 9/10 times he would score.

It also goes on to describe how Ronaldo told Gary Neville a sayin that he still stands by today, "too much water kills the plant". I recommend anyone who hasn't read it do so, excellent article

ALDUtd

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14 Dec 2012 08:55:04
Does anybody think a swap deal with Nani for Walcott would be a step backwards? Nani is world class when he's on it, he just needs to improve his consitency. Walcott is like a skinny version of Valencia, very similar style but Walcott can only run, if we're going to get rid of Nani IMO we need a left footed winger to add something different. I'm hoping we keep Nani, he just needs a run of good games. In January or the summer I'm hoping for a left footed winger if we get rid of Nani and a defensive midfielder to sit back and protect the back four.

Kez.

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Tell you what kez, doesn't take long to read the site, I trust if you had you wouldn't have even started to write that post.

GDS

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Tell you what GDSGDGDSGS, why would I read the website when I'm just giving my opinion on the Nani/Walcott front.

Kez.

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It would certainly be a step backwards, but financially could be a real option so other areas could be looked at. I would prefer someone like Rodriguez, but Porto are notorious for wanting ridiculously high fees for their players and to be fair they usually get them.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - Porto have made it clear that they are looking for the amount quoted in his contract as a "buy out" clause for clubs in Portugal and Spain.}

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Ed002, so you have to say it's highly unlikely we will pay that if we wouldn't pay the smaller amount a year earlier.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I am not going to speculate on a decision the club has to take, but Rodriguez' contract was renegotiated and the "buy out" clause increased (from 30M euro to 45M euro) and even though the clause cannot be simply "activated" by a club from beyond the Iberian peninsula, it is clear that it reflects the amount that Porto will look to obtain if and when he is sold.}

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Im not that keen on Walcott but if it was for peanuts then he'd become a good squad player to have.The one thing he has over Valencia is that he is a better finisher & scores more goals
Blackpool Red

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Ed002, thanks again, I do not think we will pay £35m for Rodriguez. £25m possibly, but I would be very surprised to see us go higher than that.

Sydney!

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Nani is way better than Walcott...

And I agree with most of the post by Percy w.r.t Nani :)

AJ

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I wouldn't worry too much about the 'buy out clause'

I don't think Rodriguez would have allowed it if it meant he would be tied to Porto for life, perhaps they have an unwritten agreement in place in terms of future transfer fee?

Gav {Ed002's Note - The "buy out" clause gives a figure that can be exercised in local law but also a figure that Porto would look to achieve in selling the player to another club, such as Manchester United.}

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14 Dec 2012 06:07:38
And the Nani debate continues........
I for one have always thought Nani to be immensely talented but low on character and intelligence. But talent alone can only get you so far. There are two important examples for Nani - Quaresma and C.Ronaldo both fellow Portugese. Two talented players. But were one was willing to learn his craft and improve to become a World player of the year the other dwelt only on his talent and faded into obscurity. I think Nani would do well to learn from these two guys if he is best in the world.
PeeBoaiy

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100% agree. All this bandwagon stuff is complete bs and a matter of many seeing the same thing but a few people refusing to acknowledge it. Good players need ability and brains to go with it. Whilst he is a skillful player he completely lacks in the brain department.

When in the last 15 years have we sold a player and we ended watching them become great somewhere else. (Pique excluded)

I think the coaching staff and SAF see the exact same thing many see and he will disappointment wherever he ends up.

I agree with Jono that no one will come in for him in January and we are stuck with him.

So for the people who are fans of him, we will get to see a lot more lousy performances with the occasional good one and maybe that puts this debate to bed by then.


This notion of the team being weak and hence he does not perform to his potential is ludicrous. Look at great players in any team sport and even when with a weak team they actually step up and carry more of a load.


Shahram

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I agree this 'bandwagon' talk is BS. People's opinion's of Nani have changed over time, for a reason. If he comes back and plays 5 games in a row as well as he did in 2010/2011 then fair enough but otherwise he needs to be sold ASAP. Carrick plays in every big game because he is our most consistent performer. Nani doesn't start these games...why?... because he's inconsistent as $hit and can't be trusted. Don't get me wrong, when Nani is on form and deliver's nobody appreciates that more than me...but I've been waiting to see that happen for so long that it's getting silly now

Gav

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Syd also thinks he will thrive in Italy which is an interesting one since the italian teams and the league is known for its wide open style of attacking play and teams go up and down the pitch and score freely, where wingers can just run at one defender and Nani can show off his dribbling ability :)


Shahram

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14 Dec 2012 02:10:44
That's kind of my point StevieK. Too many people go with the crowd so that people will "agree" with them as opposed to forming their own opinions and standing by them. Its a bit like people who put FB statuses that they think will hoard 'likes'. I mean, who cares? Though I fear I'm going off on a tangent.

TK-Red

It is not a matter of jumping on the bandwagon it is matter of the majority agreeing with the truth.... Just because there is an overwhelming majority does not mean they do not have tier own opinions... Percy keeps saying Nani has had these good games this season and gets dropped after he has had a run of form when was this 2 years ago?? He has been dreadful no matter what blinkered fans think for a long time one game every 20 where you do something decent doesnt make you consistent or the best winger in the world...

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And so the circle continues. You claim that its the truth when, infact, all we are talking is opinions and MY opinion is that alot of people have seen the negative opinions of Nani on here and find it easy to get involved as the guy has had a bad last couple of months. I'm not going to go over the consistency issue again as I have already covered the topic of what the reasons might be.

TK-Red

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TK

"Too many people go with the crowd so that people will "agree" with them as opposed to forming their own opinions and standing by them"

TBH that sounds a little arrogant to me. Just because I believe one way over the other I am automatically 'going woth the crowd'? That would make it pretty difficult to post on a forum such as this, for fear of being labelled a sheep (with 50/50 chance in all honesty).

Last point, I hate and cannot think of anything worse than publishing my daily goings on in a public forum....but....also do not think Nani will be a success at United. Does that make me an oxymoron? I'm sorry if it does

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 01:07:44
There is one thing that stands out to me about the United team - The central midfielder's really do not assist or score..

Premiership only -

Carrick -
2012-2013- 15 apps, 0 goals, 1 assist.
2011-2012- 27 apps, 2 goals, 3 assists.
2010-2011- 23 apps, 0 goals, 0 assists.

Cleverley -
2012-2013- 8 apps, 1 goal, 0 assists.
2011-2012- 5 apps, 0 goals, 1 assist.
2010-2011- 19 apps, 3 goals, 2 assists. (at Wigan on loan)

Anderson -
2012-2013- 3 apps, 1 goal, 1 assist.
2011-2012- 8 apps, 2 goals, 1 assist.
2010-2011- 14 apps, 1 goal, 2 assists.

I am not going to list them all but it is a common problem with all of them apart from one where Fletcher had 8 assists in 24 apps... I would like to see some more adventure from them getting forward especially Cleverley who seems to be scared to get forward and when he odes fluffs his lines.

Believable5 Unbelievable1

I feel if Carrick hadn't been employed in a defensive role or maybe if he was played alongside a Defensive Mid he would have scored and assisted more.

His through balls are very good and he is a decent finisher.

MUMBAI_BOY

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Cleverley has been deployed in a more defensive role this season, last season initially he played some fantastic football until he got injured.

Mad Hatter

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I agree with the OP tbh but I think SAF likes his 2 CM'ers to sit deep at the moment so that's partly why they don't score and assist so much

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 01:06:39
Hey all,

haven't been getting some posts through,

but I'd like to see Nani sold if a bid around 20-25 cam in for him next month. I think he has tremendous talent, but he can't find his form at OT I'm afraid. I'd like to see that money get redirected to Bayern for Tony Kroos. I think that he is the perfect player for us. Since we seem to be moving away from more traditional wingers, Kroos is a versatile enough player to transform our midfield into a dominant European force. He can play decent enough defense, great at both short and long passes, for keeping possession or distributing a long ball. Kroos can also assist, create, and score goals while sticking in a fair amount of tough tackles. A team looking like

----------De Gea-----------
-Rafa--Small--Vidic--Evra-
-Carrick---Clevs---Kroos-
------Roon------Kagawa----
------------RvP---------------

with Welbeck, Tony, Young, Chica, Ando, Fletcher, Evans, Powell, Jones to rotate in the squad would devastate both the BPL and also Europe. Cheers, I hope we smash those dirty b*stards 10 - 0!

Sparty On

Believable0 Unbelievable4

14 Dec 2012 00:08:13
So now the criticism of Nani is a bandwagon? Deary me. Tell me this, when we signed Nani in 2007, there were high hopes for him. Has he turned out how you wanted him to?

G.A.G.U.S

Believable4 Unbelievable4

I can not believe it either... Somehow having the same opinion is a bandwagon... People seem to think criticising your own players is wrong when it comes to Nani but it seems to be okay against Anderson, Evans, Evra and Young... He has not improved since joining and does not understand the word 'team'.

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He could be better than he is, but that would require playing. I feel it's much like the DDG vs Lindegaard thing, the player who's clearly the better payer is constantly dropped after good games and good runs of form in favour of someone who has half the talent, but is a little more functional.

Percy

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G.A.G.U.S.

I said a 'vast majority' are jumping on the bandwagon. That didn't necessarily include you mate but if it hit a nerve.... ;) ?

TK-Red

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Oh I forgot to answer the question. As a player I think he has developed into a fantastic player. Nobody seems to question that, more his consistency. My point being that there are other circumstances that may have affected that consistency.

TK-Red

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Unnamed poster who said its not ok to criticize Nani but it is ok for others? You'll find that those defending Nani are merely saying that people are going overboard when doing so. Anderson has been a much bigger disappointment than Nani and yet people still see potential, and rightly so. So why be more harsh on Nani who, despite what you say, has improved massively since he joined.

TK-Red

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Percy

Has Nani turned into the player you thought he would?

G.A.G.U.S

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G.A.G.U.S,

I'm not a Nani fanboy like Percy, but let's just say Nani has justified his 14m price tag a lot more than Valencia and Young have done their 16m price tags.

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Agreed G.A.G.U.S it's only band wagon if very one tags along instantly. Where as in this instance the Nani debate has raged on in full view of everyone for 2 years.

Percy

I'm glad you never mentioned me in the list of names of guys who had changed opinions on him. I alway thought we should have pushed to sell after his good 6 month season to maximise the return but I suppose our other targets were not interested and as a result we never pushed through the deal to Juve. Since then other teams clearly have the same view as us in that he is not worth the cash he wants to move plus the fee and I mentioned it during the summer that our inability to punt him has ended up with him and his agent in the driving seat.

I think we will be stuck with him till summer 14 if he keeps up the ridiculous wage demands and prices himself out of a move. He will just have to stay till then and he will be far more likely to earn the massive pay packet if the fee is nothing.

If we had captured Ozil instead of Real I would have bet on him being more strongly ousted from OT.

Jono

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Percy- When were these run of good games ?? A year ago?? He should of been sold straight after the thumping from Barca in the final where he gifted a goal because he is hopeless at defending and gets in the way.

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Hit a nerve TK? Pffft! Not in a million years bro..... ;)

G.A.G.U.S

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TK

Anderson has not turned out as everyone hoped either but they are completely different cases. Anderson suffers from constant injuries and fitness issues that everyone hopes can be overcome by the extra work on the training ground and the gym.

Nani has a decision making problem on the pitch that is much harder to fix and an ego to go with it.

I would sell both if we could get 35 to 40 million for them and buy more dependable players that can perform on a consistent basis.

We don't need to be the harlem globetrotters of football to win at the highest level. We have enough class in the team upfront and at the back and need solid players in other areas of the pitch that deliver every week.

Gary Neville and Roy Keane come to mind as they were just rock solid at their roles and there were a lot of flashier players around but over a season they were the best at what they did.

Right after our treble season I had dinner with SBR and were talking about the players and what surprised me was he rated Garry Neville as our best all round players even more than Scholes.


Shahram

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SBR being Sir Bobby Charlton folks.

Shahram

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SBR being Sir Bobby Charlton folks.

Shahram

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TBH I'm finding TK and Percy's arguments (with regards Nani) to be getting weaker and weaker....

Suddenly it's a bandwagon because the majority of fans have tired with his inconsitency and his tremendous ability to lose the ball?

Gav

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14 Dec 2012 00:02:13
Alot of talk here about Nani. Valid points on both sides.
On his day he is the most dynamic player in the team. He is explosive, can dribble, pick a pass and shoot superbly with both feet.....on his day.
That day does not come around often enough. Everyone knows that. When he has a bad games, he gives the ball away, needless fouls and his set pieces drive me insane.
Sir Alex has given him plenty of opportunities to fufill his potential. I dont hate Nani, I prefer him over Young. I beleive that he has hit the comfort zone. He either gets his contract here or another lucrative one elsewhere.
I would rather he upped his game here. He is the definition of Frustratingly Brilliant.

Just my opinion.

Jamesmack8

Believable4 Unbelievable1

13 Dec 2012 23:54:20
Honestly now what would everyone's reaction be to James Rodriguez signing for us....... I think I would cry with tears of joy ;)

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Would prefer Isco, Gotze, Muniain or Reus.

Percy

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He'd be a fantastic signing. No question about it.

TK-Red

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Rodriguez is up there with the best prospects Hazard and Neymar and imo will become a great....... Reus is unattainable, Isco is good but nothing spectacular, Muniain had one decent season and is good but may be too light weight and Goetze is an excellent player but may be unattainable too.

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