Manchester United Banter Archive November 14 2017

 

Use our rumours form to send us manchester united transfer rumours.


14 Nov 2017 11:50:48
Was listening to a YouTube video with a review of our youth team last night. It briefly brought up the English youth sides which had great tournaments this summer. So my question is, why isn't there a structure in place to help some of these kids into the first team in the premier league? Ourself we have some really outstanding talents in our under 18's but whether or not any of them actually make it to the first team is another story. Obviously there are high hopes for Gomes, but why aren't more coming through? Is there a failing in the under 23 system which doesn't help the step up? Is the coaching set up among the clubs in England not good enough? There's an issue with some really talented players stalling and not making it, which is a shame.
I know a lot of people will talk about money, but at the end of the day if you're good enough you will surely get a chance? Would just like to hear everyone's opinion (eds included) about potential changes to help get some of the younger lads into first team football in the premier league.
Caolán.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

14 Nov 2017 12:03:49
Too much at stake to risk bedding in youth now. They may have all the talent in the world but they are typically inconsistent and managers jobs are too pressurized to risk fielding a youngster unless they have to.

The money is a massive factor as well. If a club has spent £100m in the summer and massive wages, then have that new flash signing on the bench because of a youth prospect it is going to annoy a few people. Even friendly matches now come with stipulations on X number of first team players starting or things like that.

I suppose it's similar to why Big Budget Hollywood films won't have an unknown as a lead actor. It should be the best actor irrespective of "brand", but it very rarely is the case - just the same as youngsters getting proper chances in elite clubs. You go for the insurance policy, massive shame but it is why we are suffering imo.

Agree3 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 06:03:08
Ed001 if you have time, I would like to have your opinion on Mikitaryan.

We signed him after a terrific season with Dortmund, but he has never performed to that level here.

As other posters suggest do you think Pogba not being available directly affects his performance? Will he improve when Pogba is back?
Jose seems to trust him completely. There seems to be no competition for him at that position from the squad and also seems like we are not looking for a central playmaker in the market.

Ed001 please enlighten us with your view on him. Fellow posters also welcome.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

{Ed001's Note - I expect he will improve, if he is in the team, with the return of Pogba but I am not convinced by him at all. He has pace and decent technical ability but I find him a tad brainless. I never rated him at Dortmund to be honest. He is very reliant on other players creating space for him as he does not make good runs or show clever movement. I think he was a poor buy and will end up being sold as a disappointment to be perfectly honest.

By the way, he also is not the best trainer and does not like to be told what to do on the pitch, he wants to just play off the cuff and do what he wants. So I am very surprised he has lasted this long with Mourinho, who likes his players to play in a very structured system. He moaned a lot at Dortmund about being stifled because Klopp wanted him to work back and press and make effort off the ball. Seemed a strange buy to me.}

14 Nov 2017 09:20:50
To be fair to him ed (and I’m one of his biggest critics) last season he did put a defensive shift in when he played out wide, which is why he had some poor games towards end of last season. However I see what you mean with everything else and I think we should get rid it him.
Also on a side note, have you heard anything about Angel gomes and his contract talks?
Caolan.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - I haven't, I know he has been made aware of other possibilities if he cannot agree a deal with United, but I have no idea if he has any interest in moving or not.}

14 Nov 2017 09:31:20
Fully agree with the Ed. A good player in patches.

I think we desperately lack a big game, match-winning playmaker of the likes of hazard, kdb, coutinho. We have two decent but very limited number 10s in Miki and Mata, who are far from the required standard. Random deas of playing Lingard or ibra there are absurd.

We've got a good no. 6 and 8 in matic and pogba but lack a real genius to unlock the door or score from notbing in the big games. Trouble is there ain't many of those about and if they are, they're either unavailable or extortionate.
Would be interested in the Ed's thoughts on this.

I also have a big concern around Lukaku who, apart from not being that great a footballer, i genuinely think is the wrong type of striker for our team.

Agree2 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 09:37:33
Thanks Ed!

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - pleasure mate.}

14 Nov 2017 09:45:37
Rave I th8nk we are being a bit harsh on lukkaku. if we had 2 decent wide players he would score more.
I'd wait till the end of the season to judge him and I think he will bang in a good few goals for us the rest of the season.

Agree1 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 12:31:30
Leahy yep that probably sounded harsh but your point around a lack of 2 decent wide men (which is absolutely right by the way) is why I say he's the wrong type of striker for us.

Many people say wingers is the 'United way', but how many years, players, managers and styles have passed since we played with two genuine wingers. For me it's an old style of play and one for the lesser teams to just get balls into the box for a big striker (with lesser teams set up to deal with that too) . Which is why I've also said a couple of times he got the right type of service at Everton (and probably wba too) for his style of play, which he mightn't get at a more sophisticated team (in theory! ) like United, where strikers need more individual ability, finesse and ability to link plays.

What is notable for me is that although he's first choice for Belgium, a top class national team, when his coach Thierry Henry talks about him on sky he doesn't seem convinced either.

Agree1 Disagree2

14 Nov 2017 12:49:40
He puts the ball in the net, when he plays well United play well .
Same goes for Belgium, good footballing side lukaku us there all time top scorer .
He is an on the shoulder striker doesn't have to be a cross .
Still only 24 as well.

Agree3 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 13:04:22
Agree jred but a few good crosses would net him a few more goals per season.

Agree1 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 13:31:46
Obviously lukaku is a very good striker. All strikers go through a Lean patch. The concern for me in tje last half dizen games is not that be is not scoring but that we are not creating enough chances as a team. Lukaku is not missing loads of chances. There has been a real lack of creativity. Poor crosses poor final balls and rash and martial running up to many cul de sacs.
Hopfully pogba can help bring out the early season form of these guys when he returns.
That said players have not played well recently and they do need to take responsibility. I don't see anybody hiding just not enough good play.

Agree2 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 14:14:28
Thanks for your time and reply Ed001!

I remember one of you Eds constantly saying he comes with a lot of baggage at the time of purchase.

I am really confused why would have Mourinho wanted him in the first place like you have mentioned.

His good performance is very rare but when he does it is really great to watch. Hopefully he improves.

Just another question, as you have mentioned there is obviously a problems with him but why is Jose not looking at other options in market? May be we have other priority positions to be addressed?

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - that was Ed002 saying that, I do agree totally with what he said, he has an attitude problem. Jose wanted to play Pogba in that sort of position, hence looking to build elsewhere, particularly wide areas, to allow Pogba space in midfield to attack.}

14 Nov 2017 14:16:30
Leah
Cross a good through ball all the same .

Don't think lukaku has looked the same since he got Injured to be honest.

Agree0 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 14:24:51
He scored 2 for Belgium the other night so hopefully he has found a but if form .
18th this season for club and country.

Agree1 Disagree1

14 Nov 2017 15:38:01
Jred you don't think lukkaku looks the same since he got injured.
Ten minutes later you think he hit form.
What side of the fence you on jred.
Jred I bet the front door of your house is around the back.

Agree3 Disagree2

14 Nov 2017 17:02:03
Leahy
I didn't see Belgium's game pal .
If you notice I said" hopefully" he Has found a bit of form .

Agree2 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 22:39:53
Wingers with pace and creativity are outdated? REALLY? You mean you wouldn't take Hazard from Chelsea!? In my opinion he is exactly the type of player we need. Basically he is a winger but one who is talented enough and intelligent enough to come inside when possible. He creates plenty of goals creates space for others and scores a few himself. Just what we need.

Agree3 Disagree2

15 Nov 2017 04:15:18
Thanks for your views Ed001. Looking forward for your next article :)

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate, it is Pele next. I just took a short break from doing football stuff to do some stuff on basketball for a change. It was a nice change, but required a lot of research as I knew nothing about the Redeem Team and a lot less than I realised about Michael Jordan! But I am back to doing football stuff for a while now.}

15 Nov 2017 11:29:16
Oh great Ed001! Pele it is then. I recently watched the movie about him, hope you give us more interesting read :)

Cheers! Keep the good works coming. Thanks again!

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - not sure I can do anything as interesting as a film like but I will certainly try!}

15 Nov 2017 13:07:44
Ed001 I'm available if your looking for someone to play pele.
I'm known as the cork pele. Lol.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - not what you usually get called on here!}

15 Nov 2017 13:26:10
Lol ed, lucky I have thick skin.

Agree0 Disagree0

{Ed001's Note - I have heard that said about, or at least something along those lines.}

15 Nov 2017 14:13:19
Leahy is one of the good guys only has thick skin because it's always raining in cork its one of the reasons roy Keane was always so grumpy😂😂.

Agree0 Disagree0

15 Nov 2017 15:34:04
Not too bad here Ken, when it rains in cork it's uasually warm rain.
A police man pulled me one day when it was raining, aren't you stupid to be speeding in the rain. Well I said it's dry in my car your the stupid one out there in the rain.

Agree1 Disagree0

13 Nov 2017 23:52:15
Little bit off topic guys but I was having a discussion with one of my mates as to whether there were more world class or naturally talented footballers say 10-15 years ago than there are now.

We both agreed that there were some truly talented players who were great on the eye such as nedved, Brazilian Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Whereas now my mate argues although we have genuine once in a life time talent such as Ronaldo and Messi, the rest lack that something which he can't quite put his finger on it.

I think it's down to the fact that football has lost its romanticism. It's now a commercial giant where it is about money as opposed the beauty of the game. I also argued that it's purely because these players have retired and when we look back and tell our kids about the stars of yesteryear, we will rave and say how there are no players like Rooney or Ronaldo or Messi.

So what do you guys think and who is everybody's top 3 players from 10-15 years ago. As I mentioned earlier I loved nedved, Brazilian Ronaldo and Ronaldinho who was just a magician on the ball. Big fan of maldini as well top top player. Be great to hear from the Ed's as well!

Believable0 Unbelievable0

14 Nov 2017 07:58:04
I think there are a handful of truly great players in every generation and by the laws of averages with so many players worldwide I think this will always be so. I do think though that teams in general are so much more professional physically fit stronger and organised that it becomes harder and harder for the best to shine. Look how a well organised Sweden defeated a creatively better Italian team over two legs as one proof.

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 08:15:44
You might be right about the romanticism, but I think it's worth considering that overall the skill level of players has improved across the board. It's hard to stand out when the entire tier of professional players is faster, stronger, and more technical than it was 20 years ago.

Also, Zidane is maybe my favorite ever player.

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 09:27:14
Nostalgia effect.

Agree1 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 09:51:03
That much emphasis on running, tracking back coaching tactics honest to god talent is being coached out the game .

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 11:01:57
Modern coaches seem very adept now at being able to set a team up to make it very hard to beat . Lots of games can feel like attack v defense with one team very dominant possession wise but facing large numbers defending and finding it a real struggle . Maybe it was like this 20 year ago but it feels more common now .

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 12:00:20
"Rooney, Ronaldo or Messi". :)

Sorry, jred. Couldn't resist, mate.

Agree0 Disagree0

14 Nov 2017 12:38:23
Zidane was a magnificent player, that juventus midfield with him conte Davids deschamps.
That era United had to make do with Giggs Beckham keane and scholes .

Agree0 Disagree1

15 Nov 2017 14:14:57
Your right jred and both of those awesome midfields only one 1 cl each. Shows you have tough it is to win.

Agree0 Disagree0