Manchester United Banter Archive April 15 2014

 

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15 Apr 2014 21:56:50
Obviously taking the we've signed car value rumours with a pinch of salt, having not seen him play can anyone tell me what sort of player he is and where he would fit in, thanks in advance.

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{Ed004's Note - He seems to be a defensive minded player from watching very little of him and just reading reviews of him whenever they're available. He is a brick shit house so should help stop teams running straight through us. His passing is good not world class like Pirlo etc so he would need someone like Kroos beside him which would be an ideal midfield. Though I would worry it lacks a bit of pace. He seems to protect the ball and he's role at sporting seems to restrict him going forward but he seems decent at breaking from defense and going past players with a change of pace and by using his strength}

Cheers ed thanks a lot, sounds like the type we have been missing for years, I know it's probably bull but you can't help getting your hopes up, thanks again.

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{Ed004's Note - To be honest there seems to be something in it}

Hope you're right ed, thanks for the replies mate.

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{Ed004's Note - I'm sure there are others who are better placed to comment on here than me. Portugese leagues hard to watch unfortunately}

Auto correct strikes again. Car value, pure quality.

Carvalho has won 4 out of 6 player of the month award for the liga Sagres ( despite other household names in the league including Fernando, Sandro, Martinez, Matic at the time, even Bebe who has been in magnificent form for the last couple of months )

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Cheers mick.

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Where do you think new signings puts Fellaini? Personally, I think he has been a disastrous signing. Any chance he will be moved on or is he lined up to partner an incoming midfielder?

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15 Apr 2014 21:50:18
Love the site,

Just want to say that my signings in the summer would be:

Carvalho, Shaw, Lallana, Kroos.

Promote: Wilson & Janko.


Leave:

Young, Nani, Evra, Rio, Vidic, RVP (better side without him & wouldn't want him in the trenches with me), Cleverley.


Moyes WILL get it right, and I think us fans have been a absolute credit to our football club this season. couldn't be prouder!

Venomous PIT Ape

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I agree Pit Ape, I honestly don't think RVP is cut out for trench warfare. He's pretty good at football though.

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We need an experienced defender, Smalling, Jones, Evans and Keane is not enough. Don't understand signing Lallana, too similar to what we already have for me.

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Touchet. Danny.

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I would add lingard and Powell to the promotions list, we may as well have a bench of youth products than the likes of young, bani Anderson etc.

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Agree General. Lingard definately deserves his chance in the squad, but Powell i'm not so sure about, but not against the idea.

Who would you get in at RB for competition for Rafael?

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We have varela in the reserves though probably not ready for the step up and although unpopular, I do like coleman.

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{Ed004's Note - In an ideal world we would sign coleman however I would rather we sign a cb, lb, 2 cm's and 2 wingers before going for a right back. That's not all this window. I'd forget 2 wingers this window}

15 Apr 2014 19:45:34
Gundogan has signed a 1 year extension at Dortmund.

I am personally not surprised as I do not believe we would have made a bid for the player having ben out 1 year and still not clear why he will belike when he is back and this relates to any ore clubs that might have been interested.

I think our interest is elsewhere.

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Meant to say" what he will be like and also relates to any other clubs"

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It would have been a major risk to buy him this summer given his year out with injury and it being a back one as well. Good decision, prove he is fit next season and he can see where he is at next summer.

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I think BvB will sell him next summer instead.

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Redman/Sydney

Looks like his camp knew there will be no bids coming and so did dortmund.

The one year extension with a probably a wage hike I am assuming gives the player some upside and protects Dortmund from losing him on free like lew in case he comes back as good as before come January.

I do agree looks like he might go next summer subject to him getting back to his old best.

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No Moyes bashing Redman lol?

On a serious note good luck to the lad.

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CTR

I let him off this once

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15 Apr 2014 18:38:42
Guys just had knee surgery today, so to cheer me up does anyone know if the shaw and carvahlo rumours are true? Cheers

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No truth what so ever, hope I've cheered you up.

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15 Apr 2014 16:55:56
The more I think about this summer and next season, the more I realise the left back and centre back positions are far less important than the centre midfield. Bayern on paper have a great defence, but Boateng, Dante, as a centre back partnership are so far inferior to our Vidic Ferdinand partnership in their prime. Bayern keep so many clean sheets because they have 80% of the ball of something stupidly high like that. A few years back Vida and Rio kept them because they were both world class and had a great understanding.

Anyway, sort out the midfield, and they, with better possession and ball retention can protect the back four in the same way Bayern and Barca's respective midfields protect their own vulnerable defences. A central midfield partnership of a deep, dynamic defensive midfielder along with a deep playmaker, maybe Vidal and Kroos or Cesc and I would be in dreamland, along with a decent left back and that would transform our defence as well as our midifeld.

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Although Gilly a left back should be a prmary target centre back is covered

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Don't bother buying a centre back if Jones Smalling Evans Keane don't work out buy someone in January or just buy Garay in the summer the latter is the better option just don't buy two as they aren't needed

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Paddy, I meant centre mid is the priority, rather than suggesting not signing a left back. I just think we have to sort out the midfield first, which will protect the defence more, then sign a left back later in the summer.

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Totally agree Gilly we don't need a centre back a much as suggested left back is probably after two midfielders

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15 Apr 2014 16:54:11
My question to the people who have seen William Carvalho play. Is he worth that kinda money?


I mean Ross Barkley is available for that kinda money(whether he will come to us or not that's a different story).

Gundogan and Kroos who are playing in one of the top leagues for 2-3 seasons now are worth less than Carvalho.

Javi Martinez was transferred for lesser money and Vidal at the moment might just cost slightly more than Carvalho.

Are we saying that William Carvalho who has had 1 good season in the Portuguese league is worth more or equal to these players who we can only dream of signing?


Sounds like a big big gamble to me.

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I'd be surprised if MU went any higher than £25m for Carvalho, but stranger things have happened I guess.

He is the closest thing to Pogba, he's better than Pogba defensively, whereas Pogba is better offensively.

He would be a very good signing if we buy someone like Kroos too. Carvalho and Kroos would transform our midfield.

His fee is high, but his salary will be very low, he is of a good age and overall would be a decent investment.

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Carvalho is very different and he is much better than Barkeley. I would rather take Ravel Morrison if we are going to buy an attacking midfielder.

Most the british players are grossly overhyped and every season we have a few media darlings and then they go down the toilet in terms of performance. Remember Young :)

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Pogba is far superior to the likes of Obiang and Carvalho that have been mentioned recently, better passing range, shooting range, offers more of a goal threat and aerial threat and can really drive forward with the ball.

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If we pay the supposed fee for Calvalho I'm afraid many United fans will be very disappointed. A player with potential but no more in my opinion. I am no expert on Portugese football, but have watched him several times. Decent, but no more and in a relatively week league. If our fans have been dissapointed with Fellaini, he will loom like a good buy in comparison. For the sort of money being talked about, we should be spending it on a proven top class player. not potential from a week league. Just my opinion though.

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Betty

I do not believe for a minute we will pay what is reported. If we do get him it will be for a fee close to what Sydney is talking about.

I think the press just rights all kinds of bs and half the numbers being reported are complete over the top stuff.

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GCU, you are probably right about the fee. My concern is that we need to buy a top class, proven midfielder this summer. Carvalho is not that player. If we were to buy him as well as a for example Vidal, I would be more than happy. But if Carvalho is to be bought as the "big name" we all crave, I think we will be disappointed.
This is all pure speculation though. We all just need to wait and see what happens. At the moment all this is no more than a topic for discussion. I am sure the club have their targets in mind and are well in advanced talks by now. I just hope the players being chased are good enough to make a significant impact on the team. Potential is not what we need now. We need top players that will have an immediate impact, although I understand that any signing will be a gamble to some degree.

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Betty

We will be after another midfielder for sure in the mold of a playmaker/scholes type. If you look at our dealings last summer we were after fabregas and herrera and fellaini purchase had nothing to do with our interest in that type of player. Modric before that.

I think Carrick and Fletcher are definitely coming towards the twilight years of their careers and will not have key men roles for the team, cleverly is an utter failure and the reality is we need 2 midfielders this window and probably will see us looking at others even if we got 2 in the summer in future windows.

Most top teams have a real good group which is about 6 mids to pick from, we currently have 2 maybe 3.

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Gilly, I agree. Such a shame we couldn't keep Pogba.

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I would be over the moon if we signed Carvalho he is a player that could form the perfect partnership with Pearson over the next few years, I don't think we will need more than one central midfielder as Powell and Pearson should be given a chance next season and before everybody starts saying they think he needs a loan I don't he is class and maybe just maybe the new Scholes he was magnificent in the game against Tottenham at the weekend totally outplayed Dembele and Bentaleb he has so much to his game already and with Wilson we have 100m worth of talent if you throw in Januzaj and that's going to help this club get back to were it should be, the best teams always recruit from within and its our turn over the next few seasons to have a load of gems come through, I would also think there is one or two others that may make it but make no mistake Wilson and Pearson are going to be two of the best players in world football in the not to distant future

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Kate, I couldn't agree more. Pearson and Charni outplayed Dembele and Bentaleb in the U21's. Wilson and Pearson added to the squad would be a breath of fresh air. I'm looking forward to watching them preseason.

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Katef

I have not seen these guys play but Daehli who was suppose to be better than them is a good player but nowhere near the top midfielders. I do hope you are right.

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I rated Pearson higher than Daehli personally, Daehli is a good player, but Pearson gets stuck-in and he is better in front of goal as he was a striker in his younger years. Wilson is a striker so cannot really be compared to Daehli. Wilson is a good player and we will see a lot more of him next season.

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We need to remain grounded about the youth, it is a big step to the first team and even talent isn't enough. They need the mental attitude to deal with it and the physicality plus confidence to apply their skill. There have been plenty of juniors over the years who had predictions of major futures and just didn't make it. Wilson may have a chance but brilliant at juniors rarely translates to the first team. Cross your fingers and let's hope we get one or two who make our level.

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{Ed025's Note - fair points them red man..

Red Man Pearson, Wilson, and Perreira are not going to turn out be the Next Mecheda not even the next Cleverly or Welbeck there in the same bracket as Januzaj who is slightly older hence why he has made the step but they are all of the highest level and that's not wish full thinking its fact. Moyes is also the perfect manager to bring them into the first team, He has been to the under 21s games last few weeks and he looks so impressed when Wilson and Pearson are on the ball. There United fans United players from youth the same as Scholes Beckham Giggs and Butt, good times ahead me thinks money cannot buy you loyalty of being at the club from youth its the best way its the United way

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15 Apr 2014 16:36:42
There has to be something in this Carvalho rumour, its been running way too long, so if we begin with the assumption he is coming. Young, robust, great engine, masses of potential but defensive minded. We then need a more creative player alongside him. Ed002 has confirmed we have interest in Kroos (I hope) Vidal (dream but really doubt this) Gundogan (another top player, and whether he comes or not, hope he gets over his injury) and now Lallana ( seriously hope not, cause unless we are buying 3 mids, unlikely, ) he's not in the same class as any of the others. In a way its good to see us considering other options than our main targets, in another its worrying. Lallana is a good player no doubt but not compared to the others on that list and imo quite a few others.

If Bayern stick to their word and hold Kroos for another year, without him signing a new contract, and we were assured by the player he'd come here on a free next year then signing someone like Lallana would make perfect sense. That's a lot of conjecture though so let's hope we get Kroos Carvalho this year would set up our midfield for a long time.

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15 Apr 2014 16:15:15
Im not sure what to make of all these rumours about moyes being replaced. We all know that there are many anti United journo's out there but are they blatantly make stuff up just to get our backs up? or is just to sell papers? Personally i'm inclined to think its a bit of both. There is also the possibility that they know something we don't? I suppose time will tell :)

Any thoughts?

RD

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I don't think they know anything, papers have always made United stories up to sell copy. If we signed half the players we are linked with we would have the biggest squad in the country.

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AJH, bang on mate. Summer is approaching so it won't be long before the Schyjderer rumours start again. :)

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15 Apr 2014 14:26:40
Finally lot many news media out let's reporting that we have agreed fee for carvalho and he will join for 5 years

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Yes it's £35m or £37m plus Bebe ;)

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15 Apr 2014 14:06:31
The Kroos situation seems to be becoming more and more interesting. Bayern obviously would not want to sell, but there is a story out today that although it is unlikely Moyes is still hoping to get him with a bumper contract offer and hopes that Kroos will push for a move.

With Barcelona who might be out of the picture due to their ban, we won't get a better opportunity than this. I suspect that this might drag on beyond the WC if he hasn't signed a contract and maybe the likes of Real Madrid could see him as an option if they can't get Pogba or Juve might make a move if they lose either or both of Pogba & Vidal.

Lots of noises about a fee being agreed for Carvalho too.

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I think he will come our way so will shaw . I also believe we will put in a bid for Reus.

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15 apr 2014 14:01:16
hi eds, just wondering if there is any substance in these van gaal and klopp stories circulating in the newspapers over the last few days? thanks

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{Ed002's Note - RTP.}

@n399il

At the moment it is just paper talk, nothing more.

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15 Apr 2014 13:06:12
I for one would be over the moon if the talk of Klopp becoming our next manager were true but I don't think it'll happen, unfortunately.
I agree also with the posts saying to keep Kagawa.
Somehow we have to try & build a team around (imo) these players that we have & go from there with the signings we so blatantly need;
De Gea, Jones, Mata, Kagawa, Rooney, RVP & Januzaj.
I would also keep the likes of Smalling, Evans, Rafael (providing somebody shows him how to tackle properly!) & Hernandez. As for the rest well a lot hopefully will be shipped on. I know Welbeck has pace but he has been in & around the first team squad since 2009 & he also spent a year on loan playing premiership football with Sunderland, so he shouldn't be wasting chances like the guilt edged one presented to him at home to Bayern (mind you Rooney missed a sitter over there too!)

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15 Apr 2014 10:46:42
I woke up this morning with a spring in my step at the thought that Klopp may be on the way to us in the summer! unlikely Dream I know.
However looking at the BVB team he looks like a 4-1-3-2 or 4-2-3-1 formation guy and I think for less than 100m (ignoring the defense for a minute) and correctly utilising the players we have we could really do something next year. Would love to see:

Carvallo
Reus-Mata-Kagawa
Rooney-Van Persie

Carvallho-Gundjogan
Reus-Mata-Kagawa
Rooney

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15 Apr 2014 08:59:51
What would prefer out of these two situations and why.

Getting klopp who decides to get rid of RVP
or Getting Van Gaal and getting rid of rooney.

id prefer klopp just because of the fact that he can build a team, has more passion and can be here long term

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I would prefer Klopp but keep RVP and have mata behind, Rooney inverted right with his work rate and kagawa inverted left with his work rate to help out full backs.

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Klopp is the better manager and I don't think he would sell either.

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I would prefer Klopp and unlike Moyes I would back anything he decided to do cause he is a winner with a track record of getting the best out of players.
He also has his teams playing exciting attacking football where everyone seems to know their role.
He is loved in the game not just at Dortmund and he certainly would attract big players to the club even without Cl football.

I would prefer Klopp in any circumstances.

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Klopp for me and be happy whatever he decides to do:)

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Neither manager would get rid of either player. They aren't stupid managers.

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The sooner Moyes is gone the better. It was a gamble that hasn't paid off. If we are going to build, then we need a manager who can get the best out of his players, not a manager who the current players have little or no respect for. If we were to bring in a manager like Klopp, there would be an instant improvement as players would respect him and want to play for him. He would keep Kagawa and I suspect players like Sahin and Reus would follow him in an heartbeat if Klopp wanted them.

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Not going to happen moyes will be the manager next season imo.
As for the, everything will be great if only the players respected the manager.
Dear me very naive way of looking at things, the whole situation of taking over from fergy and rebuilding the team is far far more complex than that .

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I think the fact we are willing to let Kagawa and Hernandez leave this summer proves we are planning to keep BOTH Van Persie and Rooney.

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Sydney, just because you believe we play better with both Rooney and Van Persie in the starting line up does not mean any other opinion is stupid.

Even Ferguson played Rooney out of position to get the best out of Van Persie, and was pretty much set on selling him because getting the best out of the 2 is just not possible.

I have no doubt as to whether we will see both staying here for the long term if a new manager comes in. One of them, if not both, will be off in less than 12 months ( with a new manager ). Because getting Moyes, the safety first " pragmatist " did not pay off and we're likely to get a manager with a better record ( the balls to drop one of the two ) who will play a more expansive eye pleasing type of football.

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I never said "everything will be great".

I said there would be an instant improvement.

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Mick, SAF didn't play Rooney out of position, he played him in his best position. The number 10 position.

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That's another thing we disagree on. I believe Rooney has the vision of a mole and the creativity of an accountant. He is strong and likes to drag the team forward but his technical ability is a disgrace for a "worldclass " player. His workrate and productivity make him a good player, and we will not stop suffering until Rooney is permanently out of the number 10 position. He has decent long range passing ( mostly out to the wings ) but cannot be compared to Mata/Ozil/Silva when it comes to creating chances.

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Mick, then the discussion shouldn't be Rooney or Van Persie for main striker. It should be Rooney or Mata for the number 10 position. Just because Mata is a better number 10 than Rooney, that doesn't mean Van Persie should be the one to leave. Van Persie is the better striker. So in theory the two best players should be occupying the two position. Van Persie as striker, Mata in the hole.

People like yourself keep saying that Moyes has made his mind up. Well every single time RvP is fit, he starts. Every time he plays he is the main striker. Moyes himself has made it very clear much to Rooney's disgust that he sees RvP as the better striker. Moyes has called Rooney his sidekick, that he can fill in for RvP when he's injured. Rooney was very upset by this. All of the evidence points to Moyes wanting RvP as the main striker.

The only reason people think RvP may leave is because they think he will want to leave, not because Moyes wants to sell. There's no evidence to show that Moyes wants anything but RvP leading the MU attack. Giving Rooney a new deal doesn't show they prefer Rooney. All it shows is Moyes doesn't want to lose Rooney. IE he wants to keep them both. Just like any manager would if they had any sense. Van Persie is a WC player.

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I don't always agree with your views Mick, but I do on Rooney. One of the biggest arguments for playing him behind a single striker is because of the goals he creates ie his assist stats. On the face of it that is true, but most of his assist come from wide areas, from crosses. On top of that, prior to the arrival of Mata, Rooney wants (and does) take more than his fair share of free kicks and corners. Quite simply he is bound to get a lot of assists due to to sheer number of dead ball situations that he takes.
Don't take me wrong, Rooney is a very good player. But in some ways his hard work and "covering every blade of grass" can also be his downfall. While his workrate is commendable, it can also be seen as a sort of indiscipline in his play. He plays like Roy of the Rovers in as much that he wants to do everything on his own.
In my opinion, this is why I think Mata is a better number 10 and should be played there. If Moyes wants to play RVP and Rooney in the same side the only way I can see it working is with RVP up top, and Rooney playing as one of the wider "3" behind him. Mata needs to play the central role (generally) regarded as the no.10 role. Kagawa looks like he has a good understanding with Mata and is looking good to his left. I see no reason why Rooney cannot fill the role to the right of Mata, and do it very well. Like I said, most of his assists come from wide areas anyway. That role also gives him license to get forwards and score goals too.
Of course this is only my opinion, and all depends on the formation Moyes wants to play and whether or not RVP stays at the club. I still think we have an excellent from 4. If we can just get 2 top class midfielders to play behind them, and sort out the back 4 we will soon be back challenging on all fronts.

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That should be "excellent front 4". Also meant to add Januzaj into the equation too, though RVP, Rooney, Mata and Kagawa would be the main for at the moment.

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Sydney, I never said I disagree with the fact that RVP SHOULD be the main striker. I was one of many who wanted Rooney out of the door, even more so when Mata came in.

But with Rooney's new contract, it seems our options are either play Rooney and Van Persie up top ( therefore killing our creative play imo but guaranteeing at least a goal per game ) or to sell RVP ( because Rooney will not be sold, not because he is better ).

SO if it comes down to keeping Van Persie or moving forward as a team, I vote for the second option ( again, I'd rather we keep Van Persie and get rid of Rooney ). As a matter of fact, let's get rid of both and get Cavani and Reus, and play a front 3 of Mata Kagawa Reus ( with januzaj as an option ) with Cavani up front leading the line.

But that's not going to happen, I'm starting to lose faith in the fact that Rooney might get sold eventually.

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Mick, so you think MU will sell RvP simply because Rooney was given a new contract? Hernandez and Kagawa are surplus (1 striker and 1 number 10).

I think both Rooney and RvP will be at MU next season and I have seen no evidence to make me think otherwise. Certainly no evidence coming from Moyes' actions.

Keeping Rooney doesn't mean at the expense of Van Persie, don't you think Moyes would want to keep more than one top striker at MU?

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15 Apr 2014 06:45:51
Change of subject to most on here!

There has not been much mention about the clubs debt and I was wondering what time of year is the annual report due and also with us signing these new deals could we see the debt eventually go below the 300 million mark?

Anyone with some real information that is quite accurate I would appreciate :)

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Their financial year end is 30th June, so results can be announced after that date. Usually there is a slight delay as the figures are produced. I would not expect a vast reduction in the debt as it is the glazers style to sweat their assets. Hope that helps.

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