Manchester United Banter Archive December 15 2014

15 Dec 2014 19:40:34
I know Beast ain't posting anymore, but I thought I would post a quick update with regard to the Rooney/Persie/Welbeck figures season till date. Beast was of the opinion that it would be a major major loss and keeping Rooney/Persie and letting Welbz go would be catastrophic.

Wayne Rooney - 12 apps, 6 goals, 3 assists

Robin Van Persie - 15 apps, 7 goals, 2 assists

Danny Welbeck - 15 apps, 3 goals, 2 assists

The numbers are only for the Premier League! This with Van Persie having his worst season for sometime, Rooney not exactly playing the furthest forward and Danny leading the line (mostly) for one of the most creative teams in the EPL. I know its only December, but class is permanent. People slagging of Van Persie only to champion Welbeck's case should have a re-think. By the way, I think Robin hasn't been great for most parts. I hope no one comes up with the "he stretches play", "puts in a shift" argument.

Deeps.

15 Dec 2014 20:13:11
Welbeck is not a top quality striker, there was always a chance he could be and as a home grown player everyone held onto the fact that one day maybe he could be but truth is we were better off selling him and I'm sure he's more happy with the difference in playing time.

RvP has only just started playing well, it's no secret that for the first 11-13 games he looked like he forgot what football was and couldn't care less.

True that Ozwald. I think he was poor for the first 10-12 games. All said and done, I would still take Robin in a heartbeat over Welbz

Deeps,

Exactly Deeps. Welbeck has an inflated opinion of his ability as a striker. He promised that people would see the best of him if he got to play up front, and he got his chance when Giroud got injured. But, when given his chance all he had to offer was hard work and a few goals. Now he's back to his usual role as auxiliary lw/sub striker.

The simple truth is that Welbeck is a second tier striker, and will soon find his way to a club like West Ham.

In all comps since deadline day.
Falcao - 2 in 11 (3a)
RVP - 9 in 18 (4a)
Rooney - 11 in 15 (4a)
Welbeck - 11 in 23 (2a)

Matip

15 Dec 2014 23:55:21
Just shows how misleading stats can be redseven.

Chris, I am sure you would agree that stats are extremely important for a Striker? No?

Redseven - I think you are including his England games and CL?

I only have a problem with how some of us can have a go at one of our own (RVP), only to champion a player who plays for Arsenal.

All stats are misleading, I bet falcaos only played about 200 mins of football, yet he's 'played 11 games'

Pink_Manchester_Floyd - As I said; I'm including all competitive games in those figures. I'm including DW's England games as well as those played by Rooney and the international appearances for RVP and Falcao too.

I agree that stats aren't everything but have to say that from what I've seen (all of our games bar one and most of the Arsenal games this season) - DW has done more for Arsenal than RVP and Falcao have for us so far. Thankfully RVP's form is improving rapidly and hopefully Falcao's will follow as he returns to full fitness.

How can you compare stats? Falcao has started 1 or 2 games I believe and scored 1 goal and the rest of his appearances have been 10-12 minute cameo's.

Damon - That's probably one of the most important stats TO compare. How good is a signing that is not fit to play 90 minutes? Would you rather have a player who is scoring a goal every other game or one who can only manage ten minutes of football a week and is being paid more than anybody else in the squad?

15 Dec 2014 15:50:32
Not sure how the commentary / analysis was portrayed over in the UK, but here in the US you would think Liverpool had been the better team and deserved to win!!

I watched the game live here and then again later through a much more dispassionate, analytical lens.

DeGea had a very good game, yes, but had to make only one truly outstanding save - the touch onto the bar from Super Mario - the rest were shots hit straight at him. Sterling is not a wc, clinical finisher, and his best chance was a mistake by Evans - who incidentally never knows what to do when he has too much time on the ball - much better when he plays by instinct.

Liverpool sold there only wc player in Suarez and invested in average to mediocre talent. So failing to score when you create opportunities is down to the talent you have on the field.

Over here Liverpool "carved" United open on numerous occasions, yet once Rooney scored we dominated the remainder of the half.
At counter point to DeGea who positions to cut down the angles and block any shot, Brad Jones jumps out of the way - third goal being almost comical.

At 2-0 up Rooney had a great chance on his left foot and should have scored, then RVP hit a Valencia just the wrong side of the post (if he had left it Mata would have had a sitter). Yet somehow those great opportunities were glossed over to bemoan the ifs and buts of Liverpool's chances.

United "carved" Liverpool open almost every time they went forward - they had no answer to Valencia and the first goal, nutmeg on Allen (Championship level player) with Llama (correct spelling) watching and Coutinho too lazy to track Rooney showed everything that is wrong with Liverpool yet somehow all that was talked about was what if Sterling had scored?!?

United deserved to win yesterday and if that was Liverpool playing well, then God help them.

Rodgers is delusional, the "European Royalty" banner nonsense heralding their return to the CL was even worse. There is a reason they have not won the League since I was a kid.
They and everyone else was way too quick to proclaim United dead and that post Ferguson we would fade, unable to attract the best players.

It was 3-0 and the best team won and that was without Shaw, Rojo and DiMaria who would all start and with Falcao not fully match sharp.

Last season was a one off United are back. I would hate to be a Liverpool supporter. They had better pray that they hold onto Sterling.

Not fan-biased, not ranting, not delusional, just an honest assessment - there is absolutely ZERO prospect of them winning the League anytime soon.

15 Dec 2014 16:47:45
Tbh I'm quite happy for everyone to not talk about us.

15 Dec 2014 18:48:13
I honestly believe liverpool will never win the league again in my lifetime.Im 40.The only possibility is if they get new owners who have cash like the arabs

With the ffp new owners will not be able to go on a shopping spree as the wages of top players compared to their top line and profitability is what prohibits that sort of expenditure.

15 Dec 2014 22:40:22
We had to constantly put up with the jibes from media and rival fans for not winning the league for 20 odd years, it intensified at 25-26. Liverpool are closing in on that amount of time and not a peep from the media.

15 Dec 2014 23:26:24
Let's hope so Blackpool 😜

15 Dec 2014 13:24:12
Rene Mulerstein was a great coach and tactitian working under S A F, however he's becoming rather tiresome with his continuous sniping at the former manager David Moyes and the current manager LV G. This from a man who has had the chance to manage on several occasions and has been nothing short of a disaster. It all smacks of sour grapes and does Rene's reputation no good what so ever.

15 Dec 2014 15:34:09
Same with Mike Phelan too, he can't keep the Utd staffs' names' out of his mouth.

Their input is tiresome and makes them look bitchy for being let go.

15 Dec 2014 18:05:36
They come across as bitter.
Rene can't keep a job and Phelan can't get one.

15 Dec 2014 10:52:55
Well that is a fantastic 6 wins in a row. We are on a great run and that is without Di Maria and Falcao who on paper are our best two players. Can't wait for them to be fully fit and in contention again.

I have been really impressed with the togetherness of the team and also the performances of Carrick and De Gea who have easily been our best two players on this run. Young has also done very well and RVP is looking better. A special mention also for Mata who is popping up with goals and assists on a regular basis despite still seemingly doing very little!

I think we are just a centre back away from truly challenging for the League. However, unfortunately we still need to replace Fellaini, he is a good squad player but not a starter as he is quite simply too sloppy on the ball.

15 Dec 2014 11:14:02
Love reading the sports pages the day after :)

I think once we all get over being punch drunk from yesterday's result which masks things nicely but the truth is we are not playing well and defending horrendously and our keeper is having a worldly year and has saved our Bacon.

I think the 352 stinks of trouble and i personally hate it. We will leak goals. I think we are gutting very lucky and villa this weekend should not be taken for granted.

The 3-5-2 is terrible, as is our defence. But we are still getting results. Our defending I don't think will improve until we get a new commanding center half in.

Agreed gcu, we gave the scousers too many chances, and on another day, they could have put 3 past us. The 3 in the back is not helping, I would rather we played our makeshift back 4 and had four in midfield.
By playing 3 at the back, it is almost like inviting teams to attack us, and they are doing it.
Arsenal, Southampton, and Liverpool could all have ended differently so we should not be getting carried away.

Shahram is right, great result but let's not get giddy. We have rarely played well and been very lucky in several games. Great improvement, great excitement, huge promise, but more than 1 player away from a title challenge.

Nomid

The issue with the 352 is every team in the league will fancy their chances of scoring against us looking at how uncomfortable the players are with it and it takes a midfielder like carrick playing as centre back to stop it from being a total disaster. Evans, smalling and jones are not the type of players to distribute the ball and in many cases will miss a simple pass by a couple of meters. Unlike chelsea who look like a vault in terms of conceding goals.

There will be days when we will let in a cheap goal and most teams know how to defend with 11 and we will huff and puff and will not be able to get a goal.

I am glad rooney, rvp and Mata are in this kind of form or we would be in trouble. I can't wait to get our fullbacks back and just play a 4231 which is my favourite system. I also don't understand how herrera is on the bench.

15 Dec 2014 10:26:53
Hi all,
Hope everyone is well during the build up to Christmas.
Few things.
1. What a performance yesterday, De Gea outstanding, Carrick makes a huge difference, inspired formation by LVG and with Carrick playing in that position we can still accommodate Blind with ease when he returns.
2. Valencia and Young look like new signings, Young is a contender for player of the season as it stands.
3. Falcon looked lively yesterday when he came on, some nice touches and I can't wait for him to start scoring.

One question, who would be everyone's No 1 transfer target? If we could only sign one player in Jan who would it be?

Merry Chirstmas all.

Hummels.

15 Dec 2014 10:44:07
Being realistic
Schnierdlin for Midfield. Not sure Hummells will be allowed to leave but either him or Varane for centra Half.
Any of those 3 would be great, i'd also like more pace in the team

Godin would be good

Agree on Hummels.

Prefer varrane to hummels.

GCU, why? if I may ask.
I think we have enough up and coming CD of our own, we need a strong experienced leader! This is why i'd go for hummels.

I don't think 1 cb will fix it .
I think the issue is the way we defend as a team

15 Dec 2014 13:34:02
Hummels. Like mbd said, we need a leader in our defence. In reality we need Hummels and one more cb. The biggest worry about Hummels would be his injury record

Strootman for me would be ideal now. would add control, strength and leadership to the midfield. I say this on the assumption he is fully fit. that none of our CD targets are available mid year.and that LVG will persist with the back 3!!
De Gea, Carrick (Middle of back 3), Strootman, Rooney, Van Persie. would be a great spine to build the rest of the season around. Add in Mata, Di Maria, Harera, Falcao etc. and we could continue to be very hard to beat

Mbd

The reason I like varrane is he is the closest thing to rio ferdinand in his younger years. I read recently that Mourinho rates him as the best young defender in the world and not surprised at all. He is a guy you can build your defence around for the next 10 years and he is also a very good passer of the ball and quite an intelligent player.

He is blessed with pace which Hummels is not and Hummels does have an injury record and also gets caught with the ball over the top if you play a high line. Hummels if the reported 40 million is true is not worth it.

Brad76

Strootman is not good enough at all and Fellaini is better than him. He will get humped in the PL.

Hummels or Godin.
Gcu, do you honestly believe fellaini is better than strootman? Please tell me you're joking on that one!!

Nomid

Fellaini is better and much more suited to the pl. I have watched Strootman loads and he is nowhere near good enough to play in the pl for a top team.

He is fletcher type pace mate and they will run past him all day. Technically he is average too. So combine average technical ability with slow pace and that is the kiss of death in the pl.

People who keep mentioning him should actually watch this guy when he was at psv and roma before he got injured. Not Utube highlight bs but whole games and watch what he does.

15 Dec 2014 09:02:16
Never thought I'd say this but Smalling is probably out best defender at the moment, having him yesterday instead of Evans would have made a big difference I reckon. Much better at containing an attacker than Jones and is less rash. Although Jones did make a few good tackles he was also shown up a fair few times. I think a back three of Smalling, Carrick and Jones would be our most solid.
So pleasing to see David De Gea playing so well, what a keeper!

15 Dec 2014 09:22:30
Do you think we would have conceded less than 0 goals with Smalling playing instead of Evans ;)

Cant make much of a bigger difference than zero goals against but yea Smalling instead of Evans I would agree with.

Gds
Was that down to good defending or poor finishing

With better finishing they could and should have scored 3 goals. Evans was not good at all. And jones was not much better either.

Nomid
To be fair both are coming back from injuries.
I also think its a bit unfair that the back 3 seem to get all the blame .
i think the cm need to add a bit of protection as well

15 Dec 2014 12:09:30
jred,

Poor finishing and brilliant goalkeeping, I was only joking, just sounded funny making a big difference, its not like we let 6 in, but on another day we easily could have done. Fortunately that 'other day' doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.

15 Dec 2014 05:05:00
The talk in South Africa is that De Gea is so good that he will probably be purchased by the South African National Parks to SAVE the RHINO!!!