Manchester United Banter Archive February 15 2014

15 Feb 2014 21:31:13
thanx guys for responding to the post. personally, I believe fergie was planning life without roo. kagawa was being groomed to take over in the #10 role. but things have changed. moyes wants Rooney as his main man. he has wrapped an arm around him and has got the best od him so far. however this has upset the chemistry of the team. when your a good team u flood your team with superstars. u don't substitute them. Moyes needed to rotate mata with kagawa or janujaz. he has frozen kagawa out. why not try kagawa with mata or other combinations. clearly kagawa has an exceptional football brain and offers more than our wingers do. what do we have to lose?

Ben it appears to me Moyes doesn't fancy Kags he isn't strong enough imo

Not strong enough? hmm is this boxing? kidding mate. ashley young, silva, Mata, Oscar? didn't kags play in the german league and got player of the year or something? il give it a rest. Moyes doesn't fancy him. just gona leave it at that but can't stop thinking about his hat trick. that was excitement. so far no one in the team has brought any excitement :in our play. guess I don't fancy Moyes

15 Feb 2014 19:19:23
just a thought about the mata & kagawa debacle. I believe kagawa was brought in to be our mata. now we got mata and david moyes is turning him into a new kagawa.

LOL. That's good. I hope it doesn't really become truth.

15 Feb 2014 18:40:53
I think City would demolish Chelsea with Negredo, Aguero and Nasri on the field. Wow, how bad was that Jovetic dive?

Aguero is the"star" for City, but I think Negredo is a really top player. Really settled into English football, and actually plays like a good old English centre forward. Very strong, excellent in the air and works hard for the team. Plus he can play a bit too, and is now scoring regularly. Reminds me of Shearer in many ways.

15 Feb 2014 16:58:51
Is Nick Powell injured? hasn't been involved in the last few games for Wigan.

Yes he is. Hamstring if my memory serves. Minor though, nothing serious

He's got a couple of minor injuries so they've rested him for a couple of weeks.

15 Feb 2014 15:00:02
Back in England for a week, and no football! Or at least not that United are involved in.

One can only assume that Moyes bought Mata with next season in mind since based on our normal tactics neither he nor Kagawa, seem to fill the quality gaps. Assuming next season Mata reverts next season to the role he had at Chelsea, and United in general start to shift away from the "get to the by line and cross the ball" approach, do we need both Rooney and RVP? Surely if we keep both neither will be happy at being rotated.

Rebuilding United is not dissimilar to refurbishing an old house. It looked okay when you bought it, the rooms freshly painted. But when you decide to modernize the bathroom, you discover there's some rotting joists in the roof, and the insulation needs to be replaced. Before you know it you've blown your budget, but you now have no choice.

This is going to be a process, players we want to keep will want to leave, players we want to acquire will go to or stay with our rivals. Moyes will need to have a ruthless streak and a clear idea of what he wants the place to look like, otherwise the refurbishment will eat him up. We have problems even in the areas where we are strongest.

{Ed004's Note - I agreed with everything Mick1 said in the post below this. I feel one of RVP or Rooney must be sold in order to modernise our style of play. Possibly even both if Cavani actually is a target but I think that is too main signings in one window}

Ed004, I agree on that, but in order to tempt Cavani, we should have made some massive reinforcements. He is one of the best strikers in the world, and would want to make sure he is playing for a team that will challenge on all fronts.

I would not mind seeing Rooney off to Chelsea and Van Persie to Juve ( or even Arsenal ) if it means we would be able to get cavani.

{Ed004's Note - Preferably though RVP stays and Rooney moves abroad however I can't see that being likely as it appears Moyes worships the ground he walks on}

I'm not too sure about that Ed. It certainly seems like he is, but Moyes, as a manager, is a harda**. Part of why Fergie likes him so much.

Atm, with us performing so badly, we really need Rooney, and Moyes knows it. But he also realizes that Rooney staying might not be what's best for the team, therefore we bought Mata for a very, very significant amount of money. It makes no sense to lay him on the right, since there are better options out there for that position that suits the style we are playing much better.

I believe Moyes will get rid of Rooney this summer, or at least I hope he does. That will certainly show he has the authority needed to manage such a big club, and willing to take risks to improve us.

I do not expect Rooney to sign a new contract unless Van Persie is leaving. And selling Rooney and Van Persie, while buying Cavani, would certainly make me, and plenty of others, respect Moyes much more.

{Ed004's Note - Hopefully you are right. I just think selling Rooney and using those funds to sign a left winger like Reus or Draxler would benefit us more allowing Kagawa and Mata to play inside more freely. However, Moyes doesn't seem to rate Kagawa}

I like that Ed004 likes Kagawa a lot and hasn't given up on him, I really want him to play and suceed like you do, also I think it should be Rooney that goes and maybe Welbeck so we have room if its true for Cavani, line him up for when RVP retires/leaves. Rotate them too.

I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of Rooney/Kagawa/RVP left in the summer. Out of the three I would most prefer Rooney to be kept, as I feel like he would probably move to a direct rival. RVP is not exactly young, and even though he's quality, he has his fair share of injury problems and won't be around for the long term. Kagawa has plenty of years ahead of him, and I think Rooney does too if he drops back into a deeper role. While I think Cavani would be one of the best possible signings United could make for the striker position, I would be a little concerned if both Rooney and RVP were sold. (and possibly Hernandez) If Cavani were to get hurt, we would be very short up front. Not to mention it's going to cost megabucks to sign him in the first place.

15 Feb 2014 13:28:00
Rooney, Van Persie, Mata. These are the players who are undoubtedly world class. The only ones of that quality in our team.

Then you have top class talents, who will, eventually, go on to world class status, injury and chances permitting. De Gea, Rafael, Jones, Kagawa, Powell, Januzaj are the most obvious candidates ( in different development stages obviously ).

Then you have the solid performers/ top class players. Evans, Smalling, Carrick, Zaha ( still not sold on him though ), Valencia, Fellaini and Chicharito

And in the last bracket you have the squad players. Nani, Young, Cleverley, Fletcher, Welbeck and the rest.

These are all the players we are not definitely losing this summer.

So, to see who we need to keep, we have to divide them into brackets 1 to 4.

Now, in order to improve as a team, we keep our most valuable players, build a team around them, and replace our less important players with others a bracket or 2 higher.

In bracket 4, Cleverley, Welbeck and Fletcher are the players we definitely need to keep. They are all squad players atm, and they seem happy enough to stay that way. Their wages are minimal compared to some of the others, and they can all improve. Welbeck and Cleverley both have the ability to reach the top level bracket ( 3 ).

Cleverley's shortcomings are more visible in our current system. He lacks the ability to drive forward with the ball and go past players, but very few midfielders do, especially in his role. Scholes, Xavi. have never been dribblers. What he is good at, is short passing, moving, creating space. Despite everything we see, he has the ability to pass the ball forward, receive the ball, and pass it to someone in a better position. Now we only see him passing it horizontally to the wings, and we slate him for it. Fact is, who in the world is he going to pass the ball to, when Rooney and Van Persie are too far forward, and Young and co are hugging the touchline. His options are very limited. Now its true Rooney comes deep to collect the ball, but you never see him in a normal number 10 position. He's either up there with Van Persie, or comes too far back, where he can't really do any damage. The current system we are playing makes Cleverley look more limited than he is. He does not have Carrick's passing range, therefore will not find Rooney and Van Persie from where he is standing, nor is he a dribbling midfielder who's going to run past a whole team. He will pass it to someone in a better position, collect it, and pass it to someone else, keeping possession and releasing players. But since all of our players are currently hugging the touchline, it makes it that much more difficult for him. Let's not forget that his all around play has improved. He developed his passing range, his tackling, and his reading of the game. But we are not playing to his strengths and he is not going to improve in such a system.

Welbeck is sure to stay in the team. Works his butt off, is quick, can finish ( occasionally ), has decent dribbling skills, but lacks the calmness of Van Persie. It will come with time, and he will keep slowly but surely improving.

Fletcher was a top class player, and there's no reason for him not to get back to his previous level as his fitness comes back.

Nani and Young on the other hand are not consistent, and with the latter his wages seem too high for a squad player, not to mention his antics are unacceptable. Nani is more inconsistent than the stock market. We would make around 20 million off selling them.

Now for bracket 3, Carrick, despite his quality, needs to be relegated to a squad player capacity. His good attributes no longer cover his shortcomings.

Evans, Smalling, and Chicharito are hard working, ever improving, and on relatively low wages. There is absolutely no reason to sell any of them.

Valencia is one of my favorite players, but anything beyond a squad player capacity is a shame. He is not the player to push the team forward, but he works his butt off or the team, and seems to be very loyal. The most professional player in the squad imo.

Fellaini was close to reaching the world class status at Everton, hence why a lot of teams were rumored to be after him, including Arsenal and Chelsea, but he seemed only interested in moving here so fair play to him. As his fitness improves, his showings will too. I don't see him ever moving to bracket one, but we need top class players in the squad.

Zaha's loan is a make or break opportunity. If he does not improve, or at least show an improvement in attitude, he will not be here for long. Wouldn't be too fussed about losing him.

All the players in bracket 2 need to be kept, and given opportunities for obvious reasons. Kagawa is a player I will get back to.

Now bracket 1, it seems ludicrous to sell one of only 3 worldies in our squad. But let's be objective about this.

We have been waiting for the last 2 seasons for a Rooney-Van Persie partnership to click. On paper, it's a match made in heaven, but there are other aspects we need to consider. The first one is that Rooney is not a number 10. he can't hold his position, he either plays too far forward, or comes too deep to collect the ball. You rarely see him between the lines trying to initiate moves. And then he gets bored up top and comes deep to collect the ball, therefore ending any sort of creativity we have in attacking midfield. Mata is a better number 10, hence why he has better passing stats, more chances created, and a much, much superior technical quality. And we cannot play Mata as a number 10 as long as both Van Persie and Rooney are playing.

We need to keep one of them, because the 2 starting together creates an imbalanced team, and one of them being dropped in unthinkable. I would prefer to keep Van Persie, who is a superior striker but Rooney offers a more mobile target who will work harder, not to mention he is younger. but since Rooney is yet again making a fuss about his contract, I'd rather see him than Van Persie leave.

Such a loss would make us a less fearsome team on paper, but it would create balance and harmony in the squad, therefore allowing us to play better football, and make the most out of other players, including Kagawa, Januzaj and even Powell and Cleverley. Rooney lacks Mata's ability to keep the balance, and play quick interchanging football with the likes of Kagawa and Januzaj, and the former might get a couple of appearances as a number 10. He's still young, and will eventually adapt to the league, especially if our style of play suits him. Losing one of Rooney/ Van Persie would give us an extra 20 million. Add to that the sale of Anderson and other fringe players, and we are 50 million pounds richer.

Plus take Nani, Anderson, Young, Evra, Rio, Vidic, Rooney/Van Persie and the fringe players, and that's roughly 700 + thousand pounds off our wage bill. That would cover for about 4-5 world class players/ talents and allow us to move in the right direction.


If we manage to add Garay, Coentrao/Sandro, Vidal/Witsel, Kroos/Herrera and Reus/ Draxler (first/second choice ) with Draxler and Reus being unnecessary luxury signings if there ever was one, and this is a league challenging side.

Kagawa, for what ever reason, has not shown anything, 2 decent games aside, should go while he still has some value. Chico, a favourite of mine, is going backwards due to lack of games so again for him and us should go. The thought of Janu left centre, Mata centre Rooney right centre behind RVP excites me sadly so far Moyes disagrees. There is patently some issue between Rooney and RVP atm Moyes needs to sort it out. I agree with everything else.

Fellaini "close to reaching world class status at Everton"!, well, iv now heard it all, bit pointless reading rest of post when I got to that bit really, made me chuckle though!

Charla, have you watched Everton last season? Fellaini was one of the best players in the league, and with the right set up, he was close to world class levels. That doesn;t mean he has the potential to be, but he proved to be a top player.

I don'tt believe he will reach those heights in our current system that doesn't really suit him. Not sure who it suits though, certainly none of our players.

Grund, with the absence of one striker, Kagawa will get more games. kagawa has not shown any sort of form in red colors, and never will if he keeps playing wide. He can play in a 4-2-3-1, not a 4-4-2. Our current set up is a hybrid of the 2, but he needs to play narrower. Mata can get the best out of him.

Rooney does not have what it takes to be a right winger. He's not quick enough to take players on and cross the ball, nor two footed enough to cut in. He might be able to play as a left forward, but talk about wasting a player's quality. He's a striker, and will never be as good in any position other than there, only creating an imbalance in the squad.

Would love to be proved wrong on Fellaini Mick1, and would be 1st to hold my hands up, I think he's another in there that splits opinion, as you said, he needs a certain system to be any where near effective and I'm just not convinced that's what he'll get with us, we seem to be putting square pegs in round holes at min, granted, that may change with new signings and hopefully Moyes has a bigger picture in mind. Only time will tell.

15 Feb 2014 09:14:52
I doubt RVP will leave but if he was to go I think he'd be the perfect player to offer Juvetus for Vidal

I Hope we keep RVP and Rooney they still can become a deadly strike force and should come back strong. I think the problem is keeping them both fit, and we need to have faith in some of the other young players Powell and Keane should be close to being given a chance and I don't think it will be long before Wilson is stepping up I don't see this guy even being loaned he is a great player in the making, we do need five new signings at least with the exodus of senior players leaving this summer, having RVP leave would just add to the huge task already at hand but it still could happen, he and Wayne could force moves away and that would be a nightmare scenario I also see little pea moving Nani and maybe Giggs retireing so its already a massive job fingers crossed this summer is not like the last and we get the five world class players were going to need plus youth making an impact

15 Feb 2014 02:43:47
I see a lot of poeple still thinking we should sign vidal in the summer, he signed a 200k 5 year deal last week and stated he wuddent wanna play anywere else I can't see this happening what so ever, on another note what a farce it is a fulham yet another owner who runs his club like a hotel

The reports of a new deal are unconfirmed and from a very unreliable newspaper.

If there was anything concrete in it then Juventus would have announced it.

Vidal has signed nothing.
He has been offered a new contract.
I can confirm for you that his wish is to stay at Juve and has said in the media that he does not want to play anywhere else.
I know this because I know a guy that works within the Juve set up.
I really don't see him leaving Juventus any time soon.
vrcomp

Vidal looks like a player that will move for he right wages