Manchester United Banter Archive June 15 2013

15 Jun 2013 21:45:35
I've seen on this site people after watching Strootman at the U21 Championship saying he is not good enough for Manchester United that he should only be playing for a lower premier league club if any and that he just stands there and doesn't get on the ball enough.

Well what people need understand is Strootman is not a playmaker that dictates the tempo of a game always looking to get on the ball a spread passes everywhere.

He is more of a Box to Box/Ball Winning Midfielder a player that will get Up and down the pitch and support Attack and Defence and when his team doesn't have the ball he will destruct the opponents attack. He is a player that would be a very good combination with a playmaker next to him in Midfield.

He would add that Steal so to say to the Manchester United Midfield which has been lacking ever since Roy Keane left.
If you look at when Manchester United had Scholes and Keane in Midfield, Scholes was the Playmaker and Keane was the Box to Box/Ball Winning Midfielder.

I think Strootman would be a very good addition to Manchester United and he is available for £12 Million which is a Bargain if you ask me.

Why spend 12mil when phil jones is already as good and has far more potential? as a box to box player you stil have to have an influence and a demand for the football, from wot iv seen strootman has neither

vinny

He was outstanding tonight kept possession really well and controlled midfield in general.
Scholes at this moment in time is the only player that needs replacing given a choice it's got to be Thiago if Anderson is sold which is doubtful then maybe another midfielder may come in still doubt it s Strootman
Dylan

Hey ed I was signed in when I posted this why did'nt it post my name? {Ed002's Note - I am devastated man.}

Dylan

Did you just praise strootman? I am confused.

GDS
It was my 13th birthday yesterday!
Maybe I'm maturing!
He showed some class can't dispute that but what confuses me with most posts on here is this box to box nonsense, at this level the key is possession and penetration with the ability to get the ball back as soon as possible this is a collective/team requirement we've seen Barca dominate and watched Bayern completely pick them off.
It wasnt done with 1 or 2 box to box types it was carried out with top quality players willing to sacrifice their own idea of how they want to be seen for a a I'm doing a job for my team attitude.
Ribery and Robben being the example.
Posts fall into this trap when they say to me did you not see Spurs and Southampton dominate our weak midfield!
I saw those games and noticed that in spells we stopped doing what we do well and they worked collectively better but people forget the last 20 min against Spurs showed what United are made of complete domination at speed.
Only Bilbao and City have made me feel uncomfortable but we are on track with 1/2 top and I mean top quality signings which will have an impact on other members of the squad will be enough.
Strootman was excellent but he won't give us this ingredient.
Dylan

It was the best performance I have seen from him too, again i'm still not convinced he is anything more than a squad signing though and still see him as more of an Everton type good signing, and yes OP I am fully aware what type of player he is, nothing to do with "oh he isn't exciting or full of flair", its simply that I think he is good but not good enough to be real quality first eleven player now or in the future, if we sign him I would be underwhelmed though he isn't a bad signing
Invisible STuey

I feel a U turn is on the horizon!

What if we signed Strootman & Thiago (as many have been saying all along), would that give us the ingredient we need, Dylan?

Dylan, it's a case of Strootman and Thiago my friend. The majority see that we need both of these players, not just one of them. If we were only to sign one of them I would choose Thiago in an heartbeat, but I want BOTH.

Come one MU, sign em up.

Sydney!

16 Jun 2013 14:13:06
@Dylan

We have been lacking a Strootman type "box to box" player for a while now. Every team, especially premier league sides, need that type of player. Look at Ramires at Chelsea for example.

Remember how Fletcher/Hargreaves would enable the others to play, be all action all over the field and stop the likes of Fabregas and Nasri from influencing the game? We have missed that ability. The midfield won't function in every game, there will be off days and its in games like that, that we need a player like Strootman.

REDFAITH

Red faith
You claim every premier league team as them but can only mention Chealseas
We are not like every premier league team were Manchester United competing on all 4 fronts, expected to challenge and win major honours I don't give a monkeys if every team in the EPL as 10 ( box to box) it's about the impact and influence.
Do you not recognise Carrick is probably the best but because he goes about his business under the radar you along with many others don't see it.
A good friend and someone I consider to be a good judge is a Chealsea home and away fan and he feels Ramires is very hit and miss!
We are very quick to praise another teams player/s when we watch them briefly on TV and not seeing them over a full season.
You don't win the premier league and get to the later stages of Europe with a weakness in midfield ( see my earlier post)
The competition is getting better please accept that we are not And never will dominate major competition again, nobody will and if we do it won't be down to having the likes of Strootman in our squad it will be down to a collective quality in all positions with great team spirit and desire with strong management.
Box to box my arse
Dylan

15 Jun 2013 18:40:38
Wouldn't mind a summer of Strootman, Thiago a left back and isco.

15 Jun 2013 18:16:32
Wow Isco is incredible! {Ed004's Note - He has been fantastic today and Alcantara has been very quiet}

15 Jun 2013 17:04:11
Any interrest in Jose Baxter?

15 Jun 2013 16:29:58
This part of the summer is always the worst, you hear us being linked with great players and wish it was true, it could be a few more week until we get something concrete.

I would ideally like us to buy this summer

Baines - to replace evra or someone like Alex Sandro from Porto / Alaba would be good but will never happen

Thiago - I think is a must given are centre midfield issues over the last few years

Strootman - If the price is right and to replace anderson or Wanyama? Marchisio?

A left sided winger / forward - Bale or Ronaldo ( I am dreaming) but not sure who else is out there? Draxler? Alexis Sanchez?

A centre back could be good i. e. Garay but there are more important positions to strengthen

Any other name? and what do you think ed's?

jple23

15 Jun 2013 17:03:39
If we shipped 2 out of Nani/Valencia/Young then I want us to get Bruma from Sporting, only 18 years old, would come on the cheap and a fantastic prospect

15 Jun 2013 15:41:59
{Ed004's Note - http://www.player-profiles.co.uk/eziquiel-garay.php ... I would recommend people have a read of this profile by Ed 30 he has taken his time to watch Garay and create a report on him after a few requests from United supporters.}

Just checked this out it's made me a little more optimistic about the possible signing TBH. I hadn't seen much of him since his early Real days and Ed030 paints a pretty good picture.

He could form a formidable partnership with Vidic over the next 2/3 seasons but it does leave us with maybe too much depth at CB. If we want the likes of Jones, Smalling & Evans to succeed we need them to gain experience?

It's a tough one, what are your thoughts Ed004? {Ed004's Note - I think as long as it does not restrict too much of our budget towards other players I would be fine with the move. If we got Garay and were still able to sign a left back, midfielder and a winger then I'd be happy enough}

He did look excellent the games I saw at Racing, very average at Madrid (didnt know about the injuries to be fair), and very good at Benfica. I still personally don't understand the need for this signing even though he is a good player. I guess as the Ed says, if it doesn't restrict spending in other areas its a good signing, however surely it will?
Invisible STuey

15 Jun 2013 13:30:21
Am I the only one who is a little disappointed with the news that we look likely to sign Garay?

He's not a bad defender - but could not cut it at RM and was basically given away by them (he was sold for about E5m) just 2 years ago. I know there was some crazy clause in the deal where Real got 50% of his transfer fee (Benfica have since bought back 10%) and that it was arranged at the same time as Coentrao which may have shifted the price a little - but all the same. Considering reports suggest we're set to pay £18m - I don't see it as being good business.

Our defense is the one area where I'm pretty happy. We may need a new left back (despite having only signed one last summer) - but signing a CB and most recently a RB - makes no sense to me when there are more important areas which need to be strengthened (and I'd also rather not see RM getting £7.2m as part of the Garay deal). We have five good CB's. Even if 2 are aging a little I don't see the point of blowing £18 on another.

Our transfer policy lately really baffles me given the state of our first 11 (specifically the midfield and wings). In the past two seasons we have spent around £65m on Buttner, Varela, Powell, Henrique, Zaha, Jones and Young.

Young has contributed very little since arriving - to the point where I doubt we'd have done any differently (in terms of league position) had we not signed him at all.

Buttner does not look great - to the point where there's talk of us now having to sign another LB as he's not up to the task of replacing Evra. It looked to me like he was only signed because we didn't want to stump up the money for Baines last summer.

Varela - I know little of and is supposed to have cost us next to nothing - but we already have a young RB and I can see this hampering both the development of him and Rafael unless he is loaned out somewhere.

Powell and Henrique both look like they will be good players - but they're still 2 or 3 years away from being anywhere near good enough to be first team regulars - and them reaching their potential is not a given.

Jones will be a quality player (but is obviously not rated too highly at the moment given our interest in Garay) and Zaha could be a quality player if he can find some end product.

Ultimately - of those 7 signings - I only see one of them who really comes close to strengthening the team. I'm all for building for the future - but am also concerned a little about the present. Assuming we sign Garay - we'll have spent about £65m on him, Young, Varela, Henrique, Powell, Buttner and Zaha. That could have bought us 2 or 3 top players or one world class one (Ronaldo/Bale).

redseven

I'm the same mate, for me Garay is a good defender but last time I knew he was a wee bit slow and injury prone. That might be behind him now but for the money I could think of better ways to spend 15m+

It's a case of signing garay now, ready for the season after next. If you remember when Vidic and Evra signed in january, they were woeful and it took 6 months of them training to fit into the defence.

I know the midfield / wings are in more need of reinforcements but there's nothing wrong with a bit of forward planning, certainly when it comes to defence where players need more time to gel properly

If u read my previous posts, I am in Portugal a lot. All benfica fans will tell u he's a good player but nothing special. He's definitely not a Hummel. And he's definitely not worth £18m and will not be a good signing.
Nomidfield

Garay was only early 20, s when at madrid, you don't get quality centre halfs at that age who can read the game. rio has 1 season left and we don't know how his back problem will hamper him over a full season, vidic is still a class player but is now picking up injuries and missing games, smalling didn't impress me last season when selected I know he didn't have a lot of game time and had injurie problems, keane has great potential but will still be a couple of years away from being the finished product, and wooton I don't believe will be with us long term.
johndenton

15 Jun 2013 16:52:34
Vermijl won't be at the club come september, refusing to sign a new contract. So he goes it leaves us with just one specialist right back. Varela cost us peanuts out of petty cash and could eventually give Rafael much needed competition. During the run in he looked tired and needed a rest. It was the same problem we'd had with Evra for three years in a row, which caused a lot of problems. Signing Buttner enabled us to rest Evra and the competition forced him to up his game. Evra went on to his best season for years. Buttner will improve now he's had a year to settle in and get used to a higher standard. Varela also means we don't have to play players out of position. Smalling and Jones aren't natural right backs. Garay I can see why some people are confused but with Rio retiring and Vidic getting older and still feeling his way back from injury it does have the potential to leave us short at the back. They won't play as many games next season leaving Evans as our most experienced defender. Evans however plays better when he has an experienced defender alongside him. Same with Smalling and Jones. We often buy players a year earlier. So Garay does make sense. Zaha could become something very special and surely it was better to get him now for ten million than let him go somewhere else and end up with a Bale situation where we'd be looking at paying three or four times as much. Same with Powell and Henriquez get them in now young and cheap and develop them how we want them. Young I have to admit has been a disappointment and I think we overpaid but at the time I can see why we signed him. Hindsight is a great thing. I hope that makes sense for you redseven. MrE

Mre -

As I said in my original post - there's nothing wrong with planning ahead. Unfortunately there have been issues with our first 11 in the positions I mentioned for two or three years now. Last year was the first where our wings have looked truly poor - but our midfield has needed reinforcement for some time.

Varela, tbf, I perhaps shouldn't have added to the list - given that he supposedly cost us £1m or thereabouts - but I stand by my comments on Buttner. The statement of intent involved with us buying a new lb certainly did help Evra to up his game a little - but Buttner's performances did little in terms of coming close to justifying his transfer fee. The fact that we are being strongly linked with LB's again this season suggests that he was a poor purchase.

Rio managed 26 league appearances this season - so even a pessimistic evaluation would suggest he'll be able to handle at least 19 this season. Vidic should be able to play pretty much every game if he remains free from injury - but even if we say that he'll only manage two thirds (which to me seems unlikely) - that still means that if we manage them both correctly we should always be able to ensure that one of them are in the first 11 as well as being able to play them both in the big games.

That leaves one CB spot to be shared between Evans, Smalling AND Jones. Throw Garay into the mix and those three will really struggle to get game time!

I just wish we were willing to spend a little bit more money on players and sign people who are going to last and really make an impression. When we signed Young - another £15m would have probably been enough to land Bale. When we signed Buttner - another £8m or so would have probably been enough to sign Baines. When we signed Powell and Henrique - another £7m would have probably been enough to sign Lewandowski.

redseven {Ed004's Note - Maybe Rio will be kept for emergencies and play no more than 10 games?}

15 Jun 2013 19:15:17
I totally agree with you on midfield and the wingers but at least this year we do look like signing at least one midfielder. Wingers there does seem to be a lack of quality around. I think your being a bit unfair on Buttner. He didn't cost a great deal and I think we need to give him this season to see if there's been any progression. Regards Bale well that's one of the great what if's but I doubt Spurs would have sold to us. As for Lewandowski last year there was no need for him as we'd signed van Persie and wasn't expecting you know who to come back overweight. I think Rio won't play much this season and it'll be between Vidic, Evans, Garay and Smalling with Jones pushed into midfield or rightback whilst Varela settles in. Fergie always said title winning teams are built on the defence and last season we never had a settled defence so I can understand the thinking. I think getting the defence sorted quick means we can spend longer on sorting the midfield. MrE

15 Jun 2013 12:35:07
so as far as I can gather we are potential signing or interested in signing strootman, thiago and garay we also have interest in lewandowski (spelling) and there is talk about maybe ronaldo which I don't personally think will happen my question is who is the big signing sir alex was banging on about? and also can someone please confirm our interest in the above players.
thanks in advance long time site admirer ya'll doing a good job cheers
mo21

15 Jun 2013 11:33:13
Just modified the laptop from a 4GB RAM to an 8GB RAM. Also swapped my HDD for a SSD. I cannot believe the difference in performance. Where my laptop with Windows7 would boot in 50-60 seconds, it now boots in 12 seconds. Pages load instantly. Great investment. To think people go and spend a grand on a new laptop when all they need to do is upgrade their memory.

Has anyone else got SSD? What do you think of the performance? Thanks.

Sydney!

Cheers for the advice, was thinking of buying a new laptop, how much did the upgrade cost ya?

Sulei

You being paid to advertise Syd?

Strangest post of the year

1993

What are you trying to say?

SSD is fast so is Theo Walcott but both are unreliable.
SSDs in future may become reliable I am not sure about Walcott.

Another pointless post from the fantasist, is this true sydney or are u making up another story :' (

Please tell me how this is Football related!

I don't make stories up Mr fireman.

Not related to football, but related to laptops, the most common way for people to access this site.

Sydney!

15 Jun 2013 22:20:28
Sydney what do you recommend for hooking up a brand new toshiba blu ray player to a samsung tv monitor? Thanks. Bertie Wooster {Ed002's Note - I always found that a nice light chicken dinner, a little wine and ending the evening with some real high-end tequila and a little Maui Wowie was the best for hook ups.}

"Not related to football, but related to laptops, the most common way for people to access this site. " - again Sydney makes an opinion related post in a fact stated manner **typed on my non-laptop pc** :)
Invisible STuey

15 Jun 2013 11:45:40
Ed if marchiso do become available so do you think utd wil sign marchiso as wel as strootman and should we sign both of them since we alrdy have carrick

Sid {Ed004's Note - I'm not sure but a midfield 3 of Carrick/Strootman, Marchisio and Alcantara looks fantastic. With a fluid front 3 of RVP, Kagawa and a new signing such as Di Maria etc

15 Jun 2013 11:14:01
This is my opinion only, but I think apart from verala and zaha, we will sign garay and strootman.
Ronaldo and bale - out of our league, and it hurts to say that.
Lewi- will either get his dream move to Bayern eventually, or go to Chelsea.
Thiago - will stay at barca or follow pep to Bayern
Isco- going to Real or city.
Marchisio - will stay at juve and earn a better contract.
Of the rest, gaitan, de maria, I don't think either of those will be a good buy in the long term and neither has got the top quality we are seeking.
This is just an opinion, so let's see what happens.
Nomidfield

Christ, you need a little bit of love don't you?

15 Jun 2013 10:46:47
David Moyes not back from holiday until 24 June so we shouldn't anticipate any transfer activity until after he's back.

He must have itchy feet on holiday. If I had just taken over as manager of one of the biggest clubs on the planet and replacing no other than SAF, I doubt I could relax on holiday. He is either stuck to his mobile phone or the MU team are working hard without him. I reckon it's both.

Sydney!

This is false, if there is a player who becomes available between now and then who moyes is interested in, he will definately be able to sort out the transfer off the player whilst abroad.

15 Jun 2013 03:39:19
There's 4. 5 years between them. I would bet that Ronaldo will keep playing at his current level for another five years straight. I would also bet that Bale will never reach Ronaldo's level in the next five years and he will start to decline before Ronaldo.

Sydney!"""
dear mr sydney!
ngiak is amazed at your predictions
5 years is about a third of most players carreers
very rare exceptions abound
ronaldo is almost at his last third and bale is starting his second third
bale does not have the lavish lifestyle (at least not that ngiak is aware of) as compared to ronaldo
these disruptions in lifestyle will certainly take away eventual playing years
ngiak also believes that bale will be a harder working player than ronaldo
10 years at least of the peak of his carreer v a player that should be starting to decline
dont forget a big physique is certainly a reason why some players don't last so long
well, time will tell
gan
PS. dear mr syd. you have never changed after all these years!

Gan

I am with Sydney on this and I thought your post the other day about Ronaldo being a prima donna was clearly utter nonsense but you nailed your colours firmly to the mast so we shouldn't be too surprised today.

Ronaldo is one of the greats and Bale is very good and could be a top world player but I doubt he will ever reach Ronaldo's level. I don't believe many understand what it is like to have a great playing, the word great is far too often applied to very good top players. Ronaldo is a great and in the next five years could cement his place in football history like Charlton Best Cruyf Maradona Pele but he won't do it, in my opinion, if he stays at the circus.

The point with Bale is that he does rely on pace whereas Ronaldo has far more to his game. Look at what happened to Torres when he lost half a yard and to Rooney. If it happens to Bale he will still be a very good player but not a world star.

Lastly one point on Bale that everyone seems to have missed is what happens if he signs for us and in two to three years fancies playing for Madrid who after all are making major overtures towards him now and they won't stop? My guess is that he may want to try playing abroad at some point and if we pay big money for Bale will we have him for as long as 5 years?

Ronaldo is one of the greats, I have no idea whether he will come back but if we want a player at that level Ronaldo is the stand out choice, all time greats do not come around often and it was a privilege to have him at OT and would be again. Bale would be very very good at OT but he is not at Ronaldo's level and may never get there.

Red Man

You obviously don't know much about Ronaldo then gan. He does not drink nor does he go out very much, he's a brilliant professional hence his brilliant conditioning season after season.

rpc

I've heard numerous accounts that Ronaldo is a model professional and puts his football career ahead of everything.
DHK

Anybody remeber Bale is a half decent left back and if losses a yard of pace he can always play there there definitly will be 5 more years from ronaldo and bale but bale can always play left back

Gan, if you take a look at their injury records over their careers you will see that Ronaldo hasn't struggled with injury and that his body couldn't be in better shape. Bale on the other hand has struggled with injury every season up until today. I will stick to my opinion/prediction and I would say it's a pretty safe bet.

I think if any MU fan had the choice of either player (and it was 100% their decision) they would eventually choose Ronaldo to come back. I know they look at Bale and think we would get an extra four years out of him, but like Red Man said he would one day go to Madrid and may never get to CR7 level.

If Ronaldo did come back he would stay until he was no longer useful and in today's game with the sports science, a naturally fit and healthy Ronaldo could be useful until he is 36/37 years of age. We may get Bale and keep him for five years and he never reaches Ronaldo's level which IMO is highly probable.

Sydney!

No name, Harry Redknapp (Bale's manager at the time) said he felt Bale will be a left-back mainstay. Personally at the time I thought he would have made a very good left wing-back. I didn't think he was a great left winger, but added more than the average LB offensively and added something defensively.

Since, he has been playing more central for Spurs and more precisely behind the main striker, therefore he has upped his goals/games ratio. He would not get 20+ goals playing left wing so he will need a more central role to get a goal return that good. I do wonder where he will line-up for RM. Especially if they sign Cavani & Suarez.

Sydney!

Sydney!

Agree with everything you said there. As for where Bale will play for Madrid, let's hope it'll be in Ronaldo's position once he's back home.

GRD

Bale has all the attributes to be a top top player and I for me that has been evident for a few years, he has everything there to make the step up whether he does or not is a different matter but if I had to pick the next superstar I would go for bale.

Ronaldo or bale? Harsh comparison as ronaldo is one off the all time greats, for all the people who picked ronaldo tell me which players you would have over ronaldo not just now but over the last 10 /20 year
Jred

I've thought Bale would turn out a world class player for years now (at least 2 seasons) and spent time on this site arguing as such. I never saw him as a LB once he moved forwards, would be a massive waste of his talents IMO. I think he has a lot to his game these days and disagree with those who say 'when he loses his pace he's finished'.

Anyway, Ronaldo is clearly the better player and I doubt Bale will quite reach that level (not many will!). But if it was a straight choice I would be tempted to get Bale because of his age and likely much lower wages. Neither is worth spending £80m on though IMO!

Syd

I respect your opinions and you do come up with some top posts. But the way you "predict" sometimes and reflect absolute certainty about a future outcome is a little baffling. Ronaldo playing till 36/37 and keeping up his present level for the next 5 years? And you are cent per cent sure about it? I personally would be tempted to get Bale, true he may not reach Ronnie's levels but how many can? He is a top top player and if he shines, wins trophies galore with United, may be just may be Madrid would not seem so tempting.

Deeps.

I would agree that Gan is really not giving Ronaldo the credit he deserves as a supreme athlete and professional. I would say though Sydney 5 more years at the top may be a tad generous as of course one of his main attributes is his sheer power and pace and sharpness of turn added to his supreme skills, even being so fit i'm not sure he can carry on those levels for five more years myself, but time will tell. Regarding Bale, maybe he won't be as prolific as at Spurs, but we wouldn't be signing him for his goals purely and its interesting your worried about Bale losing a yard of pace and power and not Ronaldo when he is 28 and relies on it very similarly to Bale even if he has much more talent with the ball.
I would certainly agree Ronaldo is the better player, I would certainly agree Ronaldo is a supreme athlete and proffessional, so is Bale though even though he has suffered a lot of niggles (so did Giggs at a similar age). I would say its a question of the better talent versus the longer career/sell on value etc etc. NOt so much a question though, although emotionally I would be happier with Ronaldo for sentimental reasons, I would be absolutely delighted and excited if we are able to sign either player. hell one of those and Thiago would be a dream summer no matter who else we signed that I am underwhelemed with name wise :)
Invisible STuey {Ed004's Note - The main reason I do not see either as likely signings is because there appears to be very strong interest in Garay, Strootman and Alcantara. How would we afford all them and Ronaldo? As well as possibly a left back as this is our last chance to get any money for Evra}

And.
the most sensible and balanced view award goes to.
invisiblestuey!
ngiak applauds you!
gan

14 Jun 2013 23:20:11
Edds, do you see us having a busy summer or jus signing one or two players? Lots of names flying around as is every window but do you see many coming in? Thanks {Ed002's Note - Read the posts.}

14 Jun 2013 22:49:11
Would love it if we could get Draxler, really pleased to see rumours linking us with him.

He would slot in very well into the left inside forward role, and link well with Kags.

Not a name I've seen much mention of for a while, any chance eds? {Ed004's Note - Very unlikely}

Would love to see him joining us.

shahram