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15 May 2015 18:08:11
Does the eds know if mensah would be signed to play in the first team or in the reserves? Never seen the player but saw that he's said that we want him and that he's a midfielder. Could anyone fill me in on whether he's good enough to be in the first team or more for the future?
{Ed004's Note - Never seen him play}
15 May 2015 21:46:32
Just a question about football in general.i was at a game this evening,one player kept shielding the ball in possession and shielding the ball out of play,when does shielding the ball become obstruction and when a player slid in or put in a tackle the player doing the shielding got a free kick.
{Ed002's Note - Great question and something I often used to consider - is obstruction still an offence in the game?}
15 May 2015 22:42:26
It seems that when a player is on the ground and puts both his legs over the ball it's always as afraid as I'm aware given straight away Mainly due to opposition players raising their arms towards the referee as if being 10 years old and the big boy has just walled off with their ball.
15 May 2015 22:52:32
I believe obstruction comes under the category of impeding another player. If one player is on the ball (within approx 3 feet), then he/she can shield it without it being obstruction. Similarly a player can maintain their position on the field without it being obstruction, so I believe as long as the player gets to a specific position first they would not have committed a foul merely by being in the way. This should explain why free kicks are rarely given in these instances, although, IMO, there is a little to much licence given to defenders, in particular when they are actually stepping back into their opponent.
15 May 2015 23:54:32
When I was refereeing I was always told the obstruction rule came into play if somebody is stopping another player from getting the ball whilst not in touching distance of the ball themselves.
16 May 2015 06:27:26
Its like GDS has said, to shield a ball you need to be within controlling distance, ie you can touch the ball. This means you have control of the ball even though you haven't touched it. Obstruction occurs when a player deliberately blocks a player from reaching the ball while he has no control over the ball, ie blocking off a players run.
{Ed001's Note - not true. The laws of the game say: as long as the player does not hold off the opponent with his arms or body. To shield the ball you must be using your body to hold them off, so it is a foul. Oh and it is called impeding isn't it?}
16 May 2015 08:50:14
I also think there seems to be three rules here:
1. Keepers can do what they want, even run into people standing their ground and receive a freekick for the privilege - especially on corners.
2. Defenders can barge a striker 5-10 yards away from the ball if the striker is going to run past them (or simply stop dead to obstruct), in order to allow the ball to run through to the keeper.
3. Any attacker that dare try and get the ball from a defender who is shepherding the ball out of play is not allowed to brush against the defender, yet the defender can again back into the player despite the ball being a distance away.
I hate the double standards (I used to be a striker if you couldn't tell).
16 May 2015 09:23:06
I think you could also add defenders being allowed to hug and cuddle attackers in the penalty area from every corner and free kick regardless of where the ball is without having to worry about conceding a penalty. oops i did of course mean grab grapple and wrestle not cuddle.
15 May 2015 20:22:04
De Gea's last home game Sunday? I think so
15 May 2015 22:19:38
Problem with spanish and South American players they always looking to get to madrid or barca. Just hope for once we get a decent fee for him. We normally spend high and then give our players away for next to nothing
15 May 2015 23:55:04
Jaime,
I know, that £80 million they gave us for ronaldo was peanuts.
16 May 2015 00:36:53
Ronaldo is Portuguese mate.
16 May 2015 06:54:10
GDS2
One example where we got a good price (even tho fergie said he wanted £100 million for Ronaldo so we still got less than we should)
But look at other players we have sold
Beckham at the time should of commanded about £40-50 million
Stam was the best in the world and we got £16 million
Van nistelrooy (shevchenko was bought in the same season for nearly triple the price we sold rvn)
Heinze
The list goes on, over the years more often than not we have been poor at selling players, this is why I don't agree with the old "there's no sell on value" because there never is anyway
16 May 2015 08:55:18
To be fair Arsenal always get their pants pulled down by Barcelona as well, Song, Fabregas, Henry, Overmars, Petit - probably more.
Chelsea and Spurs are the masters at getting money for their players at the minute, probably have to throw Southampton in there as well.
Where do we most likely look to go shopping? Clyne, lloris, Kane, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Ward-Prowse, (Mason, no rumour I just think we should with this guy).
16 May 2015 10:06:33
Ronaldo £80mill was cheap if you look at what he's achieved we should of got 100plus
16 May 2015 10:23:22
Ryan,
No we shouldn't, at the time 80 million was absolutely a fair deal.
JMB,
I know ronaldo is Portuguese, the spanish part of jaime's post was seperate to the selling players cheap part, good try at trying to make my post meaningless though.
15 May 2015 20:07:44
With De Gea going, options? Mattia Perin, Bernd Leno or Timo Horn? Or, Lopes from Lyon? Thoughts guys?
15 May 2015 20:20:56
De Gea might not necessarily be going.
15 May 2015 20:55:57
He is, and you know it! Still, just over £10m profit? If we can get one of the promising youngsters named above for around £15m, net spend £5m! Everyone is happy? By next season we will have better defenders and all round squad which will help too?
15 May 2015 21:50:09
I suspect we are trying to get Bale at the same time. I'd go for Lloris.
15 May 2015 22:02:29
Erm no I don't know it. You never know if we are in the CL after a potential playoff he might stay. We are in the middle of may and still plenty of time until the end of the transfer window. Things aren't always as simple as you probably think they are.
15 May 2015 22:16:58
I think he is happy in Manchester, his family are happy here as it is less intrusive but i think his girlfriend wants to be back in Madrid. As much as we love him Happiness with his partner will probably win out.
For me Loris would be Great, I actually think Valdes with a better defence next year would be a good option and I also like Begonia.
The Inter goal keeper gets a lot of talk.
I don't think we should go for a young keeper. we need one ready for now.I
15 May 2015 23:11:48
Didnt his girlfriend state on Twitter that she didn't really care for Manchester and still lives in Madrid?
15 May 2015 23:50:14
Van gaal isnot stupid that is why valdes was baught to get fit and take over from de gea
16 May 2015 00:40:03
Just wondering where all of the people who kept saying that he would never go to Real Madrid because of his Atlético connections are now?
I must say I'm disappointed in the lad. I can't say that I blame him for wanting out - although given the confidence we showed in him both when initially signing him and after a poor first season - it would have been nice of him to sign the new contract back in December so that we could get a decent fee. He's arguably the best keeper in the world and the fee we will receive from Real won't come close to reflecting that.
16 May 2015 01:12:20
If not loris we should go for Cech
15 May 2015 18:59:06
Is gundogan more likely to join arsenal then man utd? Really hope not.
15 May 2015 17:29:30
Just a quick post about the possibility of Gareth Bale coming to Man Utd.
A few people have said that because of the way we play it might not be a great signing and that LVG's philosophy would stifle his natural ability.
And although I do agree that Bale's style of play is probably more suited to a Fergie counter-attacking system then an LVG possession game. You can't deny that other teams and defenders will still be scared to death of him. Even on a bad day when he does nothing right, just being on the pitch will open up space for other players as there'll always be at least 2 men marking him.
And yes as always there are other areas of the pitch that need addressing like DM, CB and RB but at the same time we don't have a superstar winger at the club anymore. Growing up, it was always about Ryan Giggs, Beckham and Ronaldo for me and even with Depay coming in, he won't be at that level for a few years.
For me and for that reason, I think we need Gareth Bale as much as any other position. We need that fear again. Young doesn't have it, Fellaini doesn't have it, not even Rooney or Van Persie has it any more. Bale does.
15 May 2015 17:33:40
Its a good point Joe, but isn't ADM meant to be exactly what you expect Bale to be?
15 May 2015 17:46:30
Bale is far more physical and suited the BPL than Di Maria beast
15 May 2015 19:07:38
Ryan giggs wasn't the biggest and he dealt with the physical side.
But I am a believer that if di maria stays we will see much better performances next season
15 May 2015 19:11:41
Beast, yeah I know what you mean, that's what he was intended for but I always thought ADM was a harder working Nani even when he played for Madrid. Occasionally looks a world beater but can also look lost.
I might be completely wrong and maybe he'll become the 60m man we hoped he would be but for me because of his light frame he needs players like Bale around him to take the attention away and leave gaps so that he can burst through.
15 May 2015 19:54:19
Physicality isn't Di Maria's problem it's his attitude and confidence since injury, the break in and being made to play up front. He could come good but who here would honestly say no to Bale coming in at his expense.
15 May 2015 21:35:56
I think bale would be an expensive mistake. His best position is clearly central attacking midfield behind the striker, which Rooney, mata and even Herrera can play. If we spend 60+ million on bale we'll still be short a right winger bale has proved at Real Madrid that he's completely uncomfortable playing RW. Let's focus on the positions we genuinely need strengthening instead of throwing cash at another Hollywood signing we don't need.
15 May 2015 23:02:54
I think, Bale on the left, which is his best position, and Di Maria on the right, which is probably his best position for such a physical league, would scare teams to death. Depay can then compete or rotate for those positions, and he would provide a real threat off the bench, and would be a superb player to come in in case of injuries Then Rooney and Van Persie can compete for the centre forward spot, with Mata in the attacking midfield role with Strootman and Herrera behind him in a central midfield 2 for games against weaker teams and games at home, or Strootman, Herrera, and either Carrick or Fellaini in a midfield 3 for games against the better teams and tough away games. Probably Strootman, Herrera, and Carrick for Champions League matches and games against the likes of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Liverpool and Everton, and Fellaini in for matches against big physical sides like West Ham, West Brom, Stoke, and the like.
16 May 2015 12:08:25
that to me would b a well balanced attack, great pace on the wings and ability to shoot from distance combined with mata's guile and through balls. i'd include Wilson as competition for rooney/rvp.
id prefer carvalho to strootman, more of a physical presence, younger and hasn't just had 2 bad injuries.
sadly I doubt that is the style of play LVG is aiming for. Also whilst I expect ADM to perform better on the right with a run of games and a more stable team i'd swap him for Isco in a heartbeat
15 May 2015 16:29:51
I see people have defended Falcao and put the blame on our formation we are playing.
Even if we ignore his lack of goals or assists or for that matter even his non-existent shots on goal how do we explain his unable to handle the physical aspect of the league?
I can understand a player needing time to adjust to the league and therefore lacking in finishing but how does one be so bad at hold up play? It is just a matter of a defender touching him and him falling to the ground. And the sad part is it is not that he is diving he just looks weak despite having a decent frame.
I am not sure he is worth the wages and the 25odd million it would take to buy him. Not to mention he is 29. If he significantly reduces his wage demands I would maybe think about it but for his wages+fee amount we could get a better stiker for sure.
15 May 2015 17:32:53
The signings of Falcao and di Maria, players with whom LVG must have been somewhat familiar, makes one wonder whether the manager had a completely different strategy in mind at the beginning of the season - one that has had to be jettisoned as a result of injuries, combined with misconceptions about the requirements to win in the EPL.
15 May 2015 17:51:32
shaw
expensive change of mind
15 May 2015 16:25:50
LVG : Evans is a Question Mark, never heard any one sum up evans that nicely
15 May 2015 15:55:42
When Giggs retired I don't remember an endless farewell tour or masses wailing. The most decorated player in the history of our game left the stage in a dignified understated way. Contrast that to the Gerrard circus that has sprung up in recent months. Pathetic
15 May 2015 15:58:28
It was overshadowed by him getting manager, also being Welsh doesn't help but yes similar to Scholes, dignified and graceful. Gerrard isn't even bloody retiring.
15 May 2015 16:18:14
He'll probably be loaned back to them next Jan as well! Then we have to go through it all again, bore fest.
I said to my Mrs yesterday that Gerrard said he will try not to get too emotional this weekend, she laughed and said "if Gerrard cried he would rust, the guy has zero emotion or personality", it's so painful listening to him talk!
15 May 2015 20:26:55
Very overrated because he's english and famous for scoring a few goals in fa cup finals etc. You would think he won the CL on his own against Ac Milan the way the scouser go on when it was actually Deitmar Hamman who changed the game for them after coming on.
{Ed025's Note - im a really biased guy when it comes to liverpool supasub, but come on mate you cant say he is overrated!, been one of the best players the prem has ever seen..or likely to..
15 May 2015 21:21:04
Yes he was good but if I'm picking my best 11 from the noughties and this decade so far he wouldn't be in it. He'd make a premiership 11 I suppose but I don't even know where he would get in ahead of even Beckham, Keane, Scholes (or even giggs if you stuck Gerrard out wide left like capello played him for england on occassions).
Just my opinion and I'm sure you'd get scousers on here who put him in the same bracket as Zidane.
16 May 2015 12:21:13
best Prem XI would b hard I don't think too many could argue with schmeichel in goal and giggs left wing but after that there's a lot more competition for places. for CM alone u hav gerrard lampard toure viera scholes keane fabregas how do u pick 2 from that lot?
upfront cantona shearer henry cole rooney drogba RVP owen le tissier sherringham who misses out?
16 May 2015 12:43:59
How do you pick from that? As you have seen with messi, he produces spectacular individual brilliance at the most vital times and win games on his own. That is what Gerrard did in finals. Fabregas wouldn't lace a younger gerrards boats. He is the most complete midfielder of the lot. I don't mind united fans disputing Keane but fabregas? Cmon
16 May 2015 09:48:31
Just thought that i would remind ED025 and others that when Zidane wa asked what it was like to be the best midfield player of his generation he replied ' I don't know, ask Paul Scholes' nuff said!
{Ed025's Note - i liked scholes allan, damn fine player but is he better than gerrard?, as an impartial judge i would have to say no mate..
15 May 2015 13:45:13
So I've just been sat in my English exam (before you ask, it went well) and I had about 30 mins to spare where we weren't allowed to leave so I started pondering over all sorts of systems and hypothetical situations that may arise this summer. And I started thinking about a rumour I heard on the way to the exam, Harry Kane to united.
Now I know his goals have dried up since his England début thus leading to speculation also drying up however it got me thinking. Would you rather, risk £25 million on Falcao, a proven world class goalscorer who hasn't recovered well nor has he adapted to our system bar one game where we played fast paced attacking football, Leicester, where we saw the best of both him and ADM. Or would you rather invest £25 million in Harry Kane, still a largely unproven player who has worked immensely over the past year to up his game and plays with a real passion in a largely passionless side, he hasn't scored for a while but I put that mainly down to the Tottenham players having nothing really to play for and most are on the beach already, you still see Harry running around and willing the team on and Pochettino thinks that highly of him he even handed him the captaincy not long ago.
Now the more observant of you will notice the verb's I used for both players, risk and invest, this is because I believe if we risk that money on Falcao we won't recoup it, whether he succeeds or fails, similar to the RVP situation where despite being successful with us we are now looking to offload or he could go on a free, also similar to the Berbatov situation where despite being relatively successful he left for next to nothing due to age, this will be the same age period Falcao is now entering. So at best we get a 30 goal a season player at his peak for 3 years or he could emulate this season and we're stuck with a poor signing on £250k a week. Alternatively we can invest in the best young English talent IMO who would be on less than half that wage and we'd have his services for the next ten years and the sky is the limit for the lad, he could go down the Andy Carroll route and be a flop yet we'd still recoup around half if not more of the fee purely because of his early form and being English.
For me I'd take Kane for £25 million, it's not my money and I absolutely love seeing a player play with such passion and with a smile on his face, he wasn't the best at Tottenham and was overlooked time and time again until he put in the work and forced the managers hand and he's made the position his own, forcing out other foreign flops that are taking up the wage bill.
Lewis
(sorry if some of this doesn't make sense, my brains a wee bit mashed from the exam still)
{Ed004's Note - Problem is Kane will not go for 25 million. If that was the case I think it would be worth the risk. However, he has just signed a 5 year contract, won young player of the year, is English and we would have to deal with Levy}
15 May 2015 14:06:29
The price being touted isn't £25m, i'd be tempted if it was, and if it was between Falcao and Kane for £25m then it would definitely be Kane. The problem is the price is a hell of a lot more, almost double.
Hope the English Exam results go your way fella :)
{Ed004's Note - Would people think a fee of 25 mill and Hernandez be worth it}
15 May 2015 15:03:53
In the height of his form the figure was £35 million and since then he's been quiet I don't see why it'd jump to 45 million, but I doubt these things work that way. i'm guessing we've made an enquiry due to all the news coming from the north west media outlets.
As for Hernandez + 25 I'd probably go as far as Hernandez + 30, he's been linked before with them and I don't think he's as much a threat as we thought he was, or could've been. If that situation arises I'd take it.
Tah Harry by the way.
15 May 2015 15:05:18
Id go with that Ed.
Win win situation.
15 May 2015 15:08:11
I'd snap their hands off for Kane with that deal Ed. I'd even go £30mil, Nani & Hernandez.
Kane can create for himself, English, mature, intelligent, works hard and could lead the line with Wilson for the next 10 years.
{Ed004's Note - I would rather the money it takes to sign Kane be spent on Bale tbh. Both are luxury signings but I think Bale would offer us more. Then next season after Kane has had another season in the league spend the 40/50 mill it takes to get him if Wilson hasn't progressed enough}
15 May 2015 15:21:55
I don't think we should sign any striker because that would most likely mean rooney will play in a wide position or in the midfield and that is not good for the team. We are in a situation where if he is fit he plays and anywhere else apart from striker will hamper the team in the long run. Also signing a new striker would stunt wilson's growth. RVP and wilson are enough cover for the one striker position.
15 May 2015 15:29:36
Personally, I'd throw £45m at Lyon for Lacazette and Lopes!
15 May 2015 15:35:24
France is the new Belgium as they say, they being just you Ronnie.
15 May 2015 17:22:19
Lopes is Portuguese! And still, he's a damn good goalkeeper Anon!
15 May 2015 17:27:20
I'm not of the opinion we will sign a striker unless rvp & falcoa go. If we do not sign falcao we would still have Rooney, rvp, Wilson and depay who can play up top. If Woodward says we will spend about 101 million (not sure if this includes depay) then surely a top drawer defender and midfielder would take a big proportion of this amount.
15 May 2015 17:48:07
Pulling your chain Ronnie, I don't watch much ligue 1 so I wouldn't know, I only hear about Nantes players from family there.
15 May 2015 19:08:21
Well I think we will need Lopes as De Gea's off to Madrid! The discussions start, who do we bring in?!?
15 May 2015 13:20:12
Gunna try and get a post a day out, because i have very little going on in my life at the moment and i like the debates on here.
2 things.
One is an expansion on a comment i made earlier but it was quite far down the page so i don't think it will get much reading.
Could Bale's recent performances possibly be the fact that he knows the RM fans hate him so doesn't want to do anything to annoy them. For example, yes, he could have bullied Evra all game with his pace and power but didn't want in case he messed it up, opening himself up for a load more abuse. Speaking as a Young(ish) footballer (ST) myself, i know that if i feel i will get loads of abuse for attempting to skin someone, instead of just passing it simple, then i won't do it. No being big headed but i do have some pace and skill to my game and i feel that i can take it round a fair few people, but like bale, i have a very moany team who won't appreciate the trying they only appreciate if it comes off.
Point number 2.
Kane for £45m is being touted around. Personally i wouldn't even have a sniff. The lad has quality yes, but one good season doesn't merit £45m. The fact he is English does play a massive part in the inflated price, but Levy plays a bigger part. The man is a tyrant and he will be laughing all the way to the bank if we paid that much. Kane is a maximum of £20m for me, there are much better players, that play up front and play in positions we need to fill more than ST, that you can get for that kind of money.
For example:
Vidal
Nainggolan
Strootman
Gundogan
Hummels
Otamendi
Clyne
Laporte
Koke as Right Mid
Muller as Right Mid
Coleman and the list goes on.
Would be a bad move by LvG
{Ed004's Note - On your Bale point I agree completely. He looks like a player who must be hating his football atm. Everything points to him being unhappy, his family moving back home, his agent stating he can't speak the language and Madrid players and fans reactions to him every match day and in the media. I think there is a good chance he will leave and think whichever premiership team signs him will be favourites for the league.
On your Kane point I would worry about the reported fee especially if he proves to be a one season wonder. I don't think the club have any interest in him but he does seem to be LvG's ideal kind of striker for this current system. He is quick enough to run the channels and in behind the other teams defence while being strong enough and tall enough to replace Fellaini. Maybe a deal involving Hernandez would suit everyone}
15 May 2015 13:58:02
@Ed004
Most of the noises coming out of Madrid though are saying that Bale still wants to stay and prove himself. I think Ed001 said something similar on here. But if the Madrid fans don't want him they may sell him. A bit like Di Maria where they pushed him out.
If the fee is similar to what we paid for Di Maria then maybe it could be a good deal. De Gea is likely to leave to them anyway so a De Gea plus 20-25mil tops is how much I'd pay, no more. He hasn't had a great season, he isn't on form and certainly hasn't become a better player than his last season at Spurs to warrant us paying any more. Also, who else would be able to match an offer? Completely lack of competition for us to sign him too. Don't think Chelsea would go for him, they are likely to get Griezmann tied up for big money. City seem to be chasing Pogba and that will mean they can't get another big signing. I doubt Bayern Munich are interested or that he suits Pep's style.
So if they want to sell him, it will be to us. Play him where he was most effective I.e. behind the main striker and with depay and di maria on either flank that would be a mouth watering attack and increase the pace of our attacking game which we desperately need. Him and Depay both score from outside the box so it would be very difficult for defenses to just sit back.
The key is to getting him at the right price.
{Ed004's Note - I just think now is the summer to make a push for Bale. If Ronaldo starts to decline and Bale picks up his form football fans can be fickle. He garuntee's us a title challenge at the very least. However, I wouldn't want us getting him at the expense of signing a rb, cb, cm and Depay. So the value would have to be around 50-60 mill I think. Also Griezmann is a fantastic player. Chelsea are going to get even stronger next season. Also who are you hoping replaces De Gea. I think I'm still in denial about the possibility of him going so haven't considered it}
15 May 2015 14:50:48
@Edpp4
It has to be Lloris who replaces De Gea. Already experienced in the EPL and is just as good a shot stopper. There are rumors that Valdez might be used in the deal. That could be a great option I think. Not only will it bring the price down, it will also give spurs a top keeper and give Valdez regular game time. Could suit all parties involved.
Also, this might be unpopular but I would consider letting Mata go, I don't think he adds enough pace or strength to the team.
{Ed004's Note - Watching lloris this season has put me off him. Against city he was poor for the goal and before that misjudged a bouncing ball in which Aguero should have had a pen and an extra man advantage. Then the game after he misjudged a cross for stokes goal. He would get slaughtered by the media at a clubs like ours and pretty sure he has had confidence issues in the past? He also isn't commanding enough to organise a back line. Also levy would take us to the cleaners and back, he's also 28 which isn't very young so not sure if he would improve on his flaws much. I'd love Cech but Mourinho would never agree to that. I haven't seen enough of any other keepers to comment}
15 May 2015 15:05:02
Well every keeper has a moment or two mate, Lloris has been one of the top 3-4 keepers in the league for sure. Apart from him Handanovic would be a reasonably priced option. Both of them are certainly better than Tim Krul.
{Ed004's Note - Some reports seem to think Valdes will replace him. If that's the case do we look at signing a younger keeper with the potential to be as good as De Gea}
15 May 2015 15:10:36
I'd ignore anything coming out of Madrid. It is in their interest to make it seem that Bale wants to stay and they don't want to sell him.
Rule number one when trying to sell something is to not make it seem the buyer is doing you a favour!
15 May 2015 15:34:18
Why is everyone so sure we will try for a first choice keeper? As far as I am concerned, the reason Valdes was brought in was to prove his fitness and because the club were aware of DeGea's possible departure. I think he will be our number 1 if we lose DeGea, at least for a few seasons and we will bring in a younger, cheaper keeper to eventually take over. On form, Valdes is as good as Lloris but £25m cheaper.
{Ed004's Note - I have to agree with Brendan here. Think we will sign or promote a younger keeper with valdes being our number 1. My only concern is how good he will be dealing with crosses}
15 May 2015 15:43:28
Rather spend 45mill on muller than kane muller is better equiped for van gaals system and proven striker kane will not score as many goals next season
15 May 2015 15:45:59
If de gea leaves it has to be lloris for me too and sorry ed004 I have to disagree with you on the age issue I happen to think 28 is relatively young for a goalkeeper as they can play at the top til their mid/late 30s
But ideally we all want the same thing. de gea to stay!!
15 May 2015 16:39:15
i think begovic is a far better keeper than lloris
{Ed025's Note - not in my opinion jred..
15 May 2015 18:18:24
Many foreign keepers struggle hugely with crosses, a few games against Stoke etc and he'd be fine. If the rest of the team is improved then the gk won't be as important as DeGea has had to be.
15 May 2015 12:44:29
Regarding strikers. I am of the mind that if Falcao, Rooney or RVP played for Burnley this season they would have scored a lot more goals for them than they did for us.
We have seen with Benteke how all of a sudden goals come for the strikers once the system and attitude of the midfield changes.
Therefore Ings, Beteke, Austin etc are not the answer in my eyes (they will be less effective than what we have). Sorting out our midfield and more importantly attacking mind-set (speed of attack) is the key to getting our strikers performing. Spending money on risky acquisitions upfront is a massive waste when we have other areas to fix first.
Any striker in world football would have looked rank average playing for us this season - it was the definition of isolation.
15 May 2015 12:56:07
Ed02 has mentioned that we have shown recent interest in Aleksandar Mitrović, but I would assume that he will not cost anywhere near what fees are getting mentioned for other strikers we have been linked with.
15 May 2015 13:07:28
I do agree. We are reluctant to play with more pace and take more risks in possession and constantly recycle the ball and allow the opposition defense to get in shape.
The team's first thought after gaining possession doesn't seem to be let's attack them immediately as they are out of shape, but its 'let's play it safe, keep the ball and retain possession'. We won't win anything with this style of play.
That, the earlier 3 at the back system and complete discouragement from the manager to dribble, take on players and beat them has led to a player like Di Maria looking a shadow of himself. I remember the first half against Burnley in his first game, he was unreal and quickened the tempo and opened them up left right and center. He followed it up in the next few games, then we changed formation and completely destroyed his confidence by playing him as a striker.
15 May 2015 13:09:02
As positive as ever 'Beast'. You are definitely a glass half empty character.
15 May 2015 13:20:03
Atko - How am I being glass half empty? I am saying we shouldn't sack off our strikers for others, surely that is showing loyalty?
The problem is not fixed by replacing X with Y, it is by evolving the system (easier than integrating new players and wasting money).
If I had said we need to sell all our strikers and replace them, you would still call me glass half empty wouldn't you? I can't win.
There is an obvious problem with what we are getting from our highly paid and highly talented strikers, ignoring it won't make it go away.
15 May 2015 13:35:39
I agree they would have scored more goals if they were given more chances. But RVP and Falcao have both been very poor, both are off form and both aren't the quickest of players.
What I don't understand is why Wilson has been given the go ahead over these two? He's performed when bought into games, so why not give him run out for the remainder of this season?
15 May 2015 14:10:35
beast i agree its down to the system.
wilson , chica and welbeck all have pace all play on the shoulder all can run behind or work the channels .
but that's not what lvg wants , he is playing with a striker that drops deep links the play and keeps possession .
{Ed004's Note - I also think he needs someone who is dangerous in the air as we cross the ball a lot}
15 May 2015 14:31:01
Even given the slow build up, our strikers have not performed particularly well, with loads of good chances being squandered, especially recently.
But, yes, the main issue is not strikers, it's chance creators. It's something that's been hashed to death on this site for years now, to the extent that one of our contributors has named himself "Nomidfield".
If we continue to play slow build-up, with attackers and midfield being so constrained by tactics that they take no risks, nor take a defender on in the dribble, we will continue to struggle however much we spend and whoever we buy. But that is not to say that every time we get the ball, we have to go hell for leather, or go for the killer ball. It's all in the timing.
{Ed004's Note - Maybe once we have a settled back 5 (including the defensive midfielder here) we will see LvG allow the like of Herrera, Di Maria, Depay, Bale (hopefully) and even Rooney taking players on more knowing we have a strong enough defence to cope. Also the fact we play a high line nowadays could help with this}
15 May 2015 14:40:57
ed
yer there has been games where our main idea seems to be get it wide and cross it to the 1 striker in the box being marked by the 4 defenders .
strange
{Ed004's Note - I think the next striker we sign will have to be like Kane or Lewandowski (ideal striker)}
15 May 2015 15:13:44
Exactly Ed, Kane, Lewandowski (Suarez) are the types of players we need if the system isn't going to change that much.
Like the rest of us I am hoping it will all change once we have more confidence in our defensive unit. But again it's just optimism, nothing to back it up because even against League 1 teams we have looked pathetic going forward.
15 May 2015 15:25:12
im not a huge fan of kane .
good young player and has had a great season but i'm not sure he is better than what we have .
15 May 2015 16:24:05
I think if we started this season again with Kane as our main striker we would have scored a lot more goals. If we change the system/focus then there is no need for a Kane type player, but our Strikers are not suitable for a slow game with nominal chance creation. Rooney should be but he drops too deep and doesn't create enough for himself anymore when up there.
15 May 2015 16:31:58
im still not convinced that kane hasn't just had one of them seasons where everything goes right.
im not convinced he will look any where near the same player next season.
i don't see anything about his game that convinces me he is the real deal yet.
although yet is the important word there , time is on his side i hope he goes on to be a top player
15 May 2015 09:55:26
I got a feeling that upgrading other positions can automatically improve our striking department even with the strikers we got. In Chelsea, Costa is the only high quality striker, remy and drogba are backups.They are fluid for 2/3 of the season.Their midfield and defence are so good.
We have Rooney, RVP, wilson, Falcao (situation is not finalised).
If both RVP and falcao leave then benteke is a good option. If one of them stays then it is wise to invest money in CM, possibly W.Carvalho.
When Hargreaves (fully fit one) played for United, CM was well secured.
15 May 2015 13:17:12
Personally I believe there needs to be more goals right through the team if you look at our Great sides most of the midfielder got into double figures( some of the defenders too) I think of all the positions striker is the least of our worries a solid defence is what we need to allow our midfield to express itself .
15 May 2015 07:54:53
Edd's, and morning all! With De Gea almost certain to leave, do you guys not think we should stick by our principles and invest in another young goalkeeper? Leno, Timo Horn, Mattia Perrin? All good, young goalkeepers and progress from there? With the goalkeeping coaches we have de Gea has become worldy! I think the same could happen with these guys? I'd also say Butland, but I have a feeling abuse would come my way!?! Cheers guys!
15 May 2015 08:08:00
Leno is the only one out of them who I feel is ready to go straight into first team football, if not then I'd take either Begovic, Lloris or Hamdanovic. However, ed002 has been saying Tim Krul for a long time now, which worries me.
15 May 2015 08:33:34
Anthony Lopes of Lyon is a wall of a keeper.
15 May 2015 09:33:56
Ronnie,
When did we get the "invest in a young keeper" principle? I did a lil write up on keepers at utd from schmeichel onwards a while back for a local pub debate.
Below are some 1st team keepers and the ages at which we signed them (+/-1). We rarely invest in young keepers for the 1st team
Van Der Sar - 35
Howard - 24
Carroll - 24
Kuszczak - 24
Barthez - 29
Schmeichel - 28
Van der Gouw - 33
Taibi - 29
Ricardo - 31 (added just because of that penalty save)
Ben Foster - 22
Lindergaard - 26
I intentionally left out some keepers as i don't think they have made any significant 1st team contributions: Rachubka, Cotton, Goram and of course Amos.
15 May 2015 11:29:32
When we bought de Gea, very raw, now, I'll prob cry when he leaves because he's soo good! Just looking at a young talented goalkeeper who ticks all the right boxes to become another worldy! I did also miss anthony lopes on the list, think the guys awesome as well!
15 May 2015 11:33:03
Back to Lyon, I would love Lacazette too! With Fekir and Collisso too! Being greedy now!
15 May 2015 12:00:23
I have family in Lyon and they would feel the same about Anthony Lopes leaving as we would DDG. Lyon don't actually have that good of a defence Lopes has carried them for most of the season.
15 May 2015 12:14:06
Where do your loyalties lie Rewz? Bring Lopes to Utd! Hehe!
15 May 2015 13:06:31
Ronnie, my personal preference would be for DDG to stay and finish his career here. However, if DDG were to leave this summer I feel Lopes would be a good replacement. Loyalties always with Manchester United!