Manchester United Banter Archive December 16 2012

16 Dec 2012 22:21:17
just watched PSG against Lyon. They are a very good team and compact and allow very few chances. It will be interesting to see where Moura plays for them as Pastore plays in the same position. 85 million Euros for 2 players who both play right midfield.

Ibrahamovic is a real handful.

Shahram

Pastore is a attacking midfielder and wasnt it reported that he would be available ?

16 Dec 2012 23:08:55
think lucas will start on the bench a lot to be eased in. Then presumably lucas right and pastore middle.

They have Verrati and Motta in the middle and menez, then add Sissouko abelaise and lavezzi and tough to see how everyone fits in.

Either way, too much talent to be sitting on the bench and expect one of these guys to be available in the summer.

Hope pastore gets in to the midfield role and might give us a chance to go after Verrati.

Shahram

Yeah they will probably end up playing 4231.

_____Verrati___Motta_______
Lucas_____Pastore___Lavezzi
___________Ibra___________

Drop Menez!!

He is more influential in that teams play than pastore and would be great pick up for someone. Plays on the left side although right footed. Pastore hardly touched the ball in the first 10 minutes.

Shahram

Matuidi is better than both Motta and Veratti ( atm at least ), and he is the best midfielder in ligue 1 bar none. Ibrahimovic aside, he is PSG's most influencial player.

Mick

Mik Sorry missed that completely and agreed

shahram

16 Dec 2012 21:40:25
Because the manager likes to start playing them when they are around 28 to make sure they don't get burnt out. That way we are assured of getting a good 10 to 12 years out of them. Until then it is the Capital one Cup for them.

Shahram

----------------------

This just made me laugh out loud mate, so many jokes within them 4 lines, brilliant.

GDS

.... That is hilarious!

16 Dec 2012 20:24:51
how about this.

january:
out: nani
in: strootman/bender

summer
out: hernandez, giggs, evra, scholes, macheda, bebe
in: rodriguez, baines and a few good youngsters. {Ed004's Note - Why do people want Hermandez sold?}

Also we have plenty of good youngsters as it is, we need proven experience in that mid 20's range to take over from the oldies and guide the kids.

Evra, Rio, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher & Vidic will be going in the next 18 months or sooner thats a lot of xp.

Mort

Also we have plenty of good youngsters as it is, we need proven experience in that mid 20's range to take over from the oldies and guide the kids.

Evra, Rio, Giggs, Scholes, Fletcher & Vidic will be going in the next 18 months or sooner thats a lot of xp.

Mort

I agree Ed4 i'm puzzled by that myself.

Mort

I don't want him sold ed, but apparently he isn't happy with not having regular first team action..

To be honest I would not be surprised if that was the case... If he was 2 or 3 years younger I thin he would love to be that impact player but now coming in to his better years I could see him being annoyed at first team opportunities.

16 Dec 2012 19:53:49
I know it has nothing to do with Man United or even Football this year but who are you going for in Sports Personality? Im going for Wiggo, I think being the first Brit to win Tour de France he has to win it.

Welsh Dragon

PS. Lance Armstrong as Foreign Personality of the Year :) {Ed007's Note - Tom Cleverley will probably win it, won't he Syd? With the shampoo ad campaign still to come.}

Wiggins, Ennis, mcilroy.

Supasub

16 Dec 2012 19:02:27
Just read Valencia has been carrying an injury and being given painkillers and sent out to play. I don't know if it's true but might explain his current horrible form.

Shahram

Valencia was playing with an injury before he was out for a few weeks. He is now fully fit and looked a lot more like his old self in the Sunderland game, and I am sure there is plenty more to come. He has played 2 games, in the city game he ran his balls off and got cramp by the end.

I wouldn't worry about Toni, we know what he can do.

GDS

16 Dec 2012 16:26:49
Fergies playing media mind games. Three in and two out in january. Evra to Paris for five million. Nani to Roma for fifteen although we're trying to tempt Juventus to get a bidding war going. In's will be Baines for ten million plus a choice of macheda or wooton in exchange although everton want ten and both but we prefer both and eight. Also we'll tie up a deal for zaha but he wont sign till the summer like we did with smalling. Last deal will be a midfielder but not sure who this will be, possibly the mexican herrera as most other targets wont be available till summer.

Hmmmm very clear post..
So either u r Saf.... Or david gill... Or
Glazer? ?
Please identify urself
Rodio17

16 Dec 2012 17:20:14
it is i! LeClerc!

Rodio

You have got me Lmaof.

Shahram

To be fair a lot of those deals sound sensible and could happen.

Its about time that you had to leave a name etc when you post. Ed's can this be sorted. So at least we know who we can hold responsible for printing rubbish ;)

Mad Hatter

16 Dec 2012 16:14:42
Just seen a video of Kagawa up singing and dancing to gangnam style in Rio's restaurant, can't be too far away from coming back now!

Hoppy

16 Dec 2012 15:28:25
Why don't we see Tunnicliffe, Petrucci or Powell come on when we are 3-0 up at Old Trafford? Playing Giggs and Scholes is a waste of time

Luke

Because the manager likes to start playing them when they are around 28 to make sure they don't get burnt out. That way we are assured of getting a good 10 to 12 years out of them. Until then it is the Capital one Cup for them.

Shahram

16 Dec 2012 15:19:13
Saf kept an eye out for mignolet on Saturday Respecties from safc

16 Dec 2012 14:44:55
Anyone seen Kagawa sing Gangman Style? LOL. And anyone also seen RVP singing Glory glory manunited. Kick in the face on the arsenal fans

16 Dec 2012 14:45:19
would like to see rafael get a chance at right mid with jones behind him, atleast he can take his man on and get a ball on.

16 Dec 2012 14:26:55
Very interesting. The Sunday Express is printing what I have been saying for the last 2 years. That David Moyes is the choice to replace Fergie at the end of next season. Why this bothers me: I believe that Fergie thinks he can just move upstairs and remain at the club in some capacity (This is a disaster waiting to happen see Sir Matt) Liverpool had the sense to ban Shankley from the training ground and Anfield when he quit. Secondly I think that Moyes will not expect to spend money and he will shop in the bargin basement. He has no experience of winning, he is a nearly man someone who does well on a small budget which will suit the Glazers. Notice that he has not signed a contract at Everton and he will finish the same time as Fergie. These are scary times and I hope at least one of you can convince me that this would be a good move for the club. I smell a disaster. I AM KLOOT

Really hope we don't get moyes, his style of play is so sh1t..
id prefer clarke from westbrom to moyes..

my main choice though would be klopp, he can also work on a small budget, brings through youth and plays very good football..
but fergie hates the germans so that's a no go..

JK92

Kloot- I posted a while back about the manager situation saying that I do not understand why everyone is expecting a big money gaffer next as the Glazers will pick and Moyes imo is the guy they will choose for the reasons you have stated. It may be a gamble but we can not tell because he has never been given the chance.... Although he does do well in the market with what he has and he will have more at United .... Felliani, Jelavic, Jagielka, Pienaar, Baines were all good signings so we may see some better deals...He deserves a shot at a top club i am just not convinced it should be at our club.

I agree mate it seems that the more and more teams available to top coaches ie Jose, Pep, Klopp etc there is no shortage of cash to thow at them. We will not be beat to them financially by many teams and it will take a certain type of player who wil come in after fergie with minimal cash to change the team to what he wants.

We will no doubt have Moyes as an option lets hope he is and stays as the last one after a very long list of top winners has been approached.

On a seperate point though I will congratulate him on not trying the old Wenger route and openly criticising Fellaini for his shocking performance yesterday. From that respect he deserves applause IMO.

Jono

Kloot - The thing with Moyes is that his style is pretty similar to ours at the minute.... He likes width and good wide men so I think that may be a good thing plus the fact that he makes his teams hard to beat.

It is unfair to say Moyes would be a disaster because anyone can have shocker no matter how much they get paid.... Moyes has not been given a shot at a big club because they always go for the well known managers he is a great manager and I think could be a perfect fit even though he is not the big money move.

16 Dec 2012 15:12:34
i totally agree, moyes would be a disaster. The job would be too big for him, the pressure would be too much, the expectation would be too much. He's too limited in his tactics, all kick and rush with a big lump on the end. And yes he buys well on a budget but thats not a reason to hire him. I don't think we'll be on that much of a budget based on the last two summers but i'd hate to see what he'd do with fifty million to spend. Mort

Moyes doesnt just play 'kick and rush' football most pundits say everton have played the best football this year and they certainly played us off the park with great football. FREDO

Moyes has done a top job at Everton but would not like him at United for some of the reasons you stated. I have a theory that many manager's who have been used to operating on a low budget and having to find bargains really struggle with a bigger budget and the type of players a bigger club can attract. This would be my reservation and unfortunately Moyes has never been given the chance at a bigger club to prove he is ready for the step up. I wouldn't want us to be the ones to take that gamble.

Gav

I do not see Moyes becoming the United manager and Ed002 has already told us the two candidates at this time (Pep and Blanc). I still think there is a chance of Jose, but think Moyes is highly unlikely. I also do not see the club being run on a shoestring budget in the future.

Sydney!

Hmmmm moyes can do the job..
He also has vast experience to go through transfer windows without money..buy players for free or cheap..
Still manages to finish in top 8 every time.
Rodio17

FREDO, how is kicking the ball long to Fellaini great football? You must love watching Stoke play then.

Sydney!

Exactly my point, they beat us by just whacking it up the Fellaini the lump. Hardly Brazil '70 is it?

Mort

If they did that all the time then why would they need techically good players like pienaar, osman and baines who would all get in our team at the moment! I thought that a lot of people wanted fellaini to come us so he cant be that bad! FREDO

People only want Fellaini because they think we need some sort of brute like that.

baines yes, Osman and Pienaar? Pienaar couldn't get in the Spurs team.

Moyes would undoubtedly please the owners as he will not rock the boat asking for large amounts of money to buy the players we need to get to the top in Europe. Moyes has won what? What is his experience when it gets tight in league and cup winning situations? None. When Ferguson arrived he had won leagues, cups and even a European competition. Moyes would be a disgraceful appointment as our next manager because it would be for all the wrong reasons.

Finally why should Ferguson have any say in who the new manager is?

Red Man

Osman is definetly better than carrick and fletcher! on top form pienaar is a lot better than our wingers at the moment! FREDO

16 Dec 2012 22:32:03
now your just making yourself look silly, osman better than carrick dear o dear. Pienaar better than valencia young or nani. Shocking knowledge.

16 Dec 2012 23:19:30
obviously pienaar on top form is better than all our wingers at the moment when none of them are on top form. But all our wingers on top form are better than pienaar on top form.

16 Dec 2012 13:52:55
What would everyone think of a front 6 of this at the start of next season...

_____Sandro___Cleverley___
Rodriguez__Rooney__Kagawa
___________RVP__________

The sales of Nani, Anderson, Bebe, Macheda and Wootton helping to fund the deals. (We missed out big time with Dembele)

16 Dec 2012 12:54:44
So Yahoo website has Hernandez wanting to leave this Jan as Van Persie and Rooney are blocking his way.... Do you think its just paper talk as usual? Do you think he wants to leave? This story has re-surfaced as it was a few months a go that rumours stated he would leave to Real Madrid.
There is only one "Little Pea". Please stay at OT and end the rumours. {Ed004's Note - Paper talk}

To be honest if Real came in with £25 million I would take it in a heart beat aswell as selling Welbeck for £20+ million then signing Lewandowski and Rodriguez with the cash.

16 Dec 2012 14:02:40
i think its just madrid trying their usual stirring ahead of the summer. Also i wouldn't sell him, best player in the league to have on the bench if we need a goal.

16 Dec 2012 12:46:39
Guys don't always believe what Fergie says! This whole "We don't need any midfielder" crap is to make sure the ones we are looking at don't get over priced, I have a feeling a January signing will be attempted, we don't want to blurting out all our targets for other clubs to compete us for them.

Lets wait until January 30th before we go guns blazing about not fixing our problem.

And hey maybe Fergie is bringing Keane out of retirement! ;)

Have a good day guys!

-JakeW

Question for the ED's

Is it really that difficult to find out who is looking at buying who. I assume there are NDA's that are signed but what is stopping a players agent working various camps to try and get the best deal for himself and the player?

Shahram {Ed002's Note - There are no NDAs signed. There is a mass of information and rumour - it is just a case of picking the good from the bad. Where have you been?}

Ed002 well it was just trying to question the hopeful notion, which some guys are mentioning that SAF is saying something and having something else in mind to keep the price down and mask our activity. You just answered it. Thanks

Shahram

16 Dec 2012 09:53:22
"We have a lot of options in midfield: Anderson, Darren Fletcher, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs - people keep saying we are weak in midfield but these are fantastic players.
"Sometimes it gives me a little bit of a problem picking the right two."

This comment from Ferguson is baffling plus the fact he can't understand why we were so poor (when Giggs and Scholes were on) is nothing short of amazing

Red Man

If this is something fergie actually believes then he needs to go.

I think in reality he does not want people knowing we are desperate for a midfielder as that adds 10 million to anyone's value. It is also important that he has heard people saying we are poor in midfield, it is not just people like us on a website saying it, he is hearing it direct as well.

I hope I am right anyway, we know fergie likes to make a lot of stuff up in press conferences, so hopefully that is all this is.

GDS

GDS

I hope you are right

Yesterday everyone around where I sit could see the issues with the two geriatrics and one or two are starting to get irate. I suspect it may not be long before people start booing when one or both of those two come on , yes the feeling i am seeing is getting that strong. They would not be booing the players but the managers decision. There were some shouting at him in the previous home league game. Sad but the manager is not immune from criticism especially after those comments.

I really hope you are right

Red Man

Of course he is not going to come out and say we are shocking in midfield he is a far better man manager than that... How disrespectful of him if he did that. He can surely see the problems and will not come out and say it as clubs will raise the prices emphatically.

Pinch of salt lads, if SAF was happy then we wouldn't be looking at central midfielders. We are looking at central midfielders.

Sydney!

No Name,

He criticizes our defending and goalkeepers constantly so your argument does not wash. I think he genuinely believes our midfield is not a problem and probably being his old stubborn self given the criticism from all pundits over the last few years.

Even in the summer he was after two marquee wingers and not a centre midfielders.


Shahram

Sydney

You know the man and when he says no more signings it is usually means no more.

I do hope that whatever we were working on has not been successful and hence the statement.

This notion of trying to mass our intentions does not wash with me as to get the ball rolling, you have to talk to clubs, agents and then I guess the players, so who is he trying to hide it from?

Shahram

So out of the 4 midfielders he mentioned;
One is returning from an illness that nobody knows how it will progress - he may regain full fitness, or he may not. The fact that he wasn't subbed ahead of Scholes and Giggs yesterday tells me how bad he actually is.
Another one has great talent, but every time he starts showing some form he gets injured again. The fact that he can't keep his weight in check also speaks volumes for his application and dedication.
One should have stayed retired - to come back was a grave mistake.
The last one should have retired years ago. He is but a shadow of his former self. I cannot understand how this legend, who is tarnishing his good name, keeps hanging onto the teams coat-tails.

So according to SAF we are covered in midfield with these 4 players. As one poster noted he is not slow in giving out about goalkeepers and defenders, which is a disgrace, especially DDG who he should be lauding and fully supporting.
I just don't understand him, I really don't. But he it top of the table, which you have to respect, but questions can still be asked, wait until the CL head-to-heads, then we'll know how good we really are!!

J Bones.

Perhaps we are waiting until the summer for our targets, perhaps incoming player/s is dependent on outgoing sales? I don't know, but we are looking at central midfielders so he clearly isn't happy with the midfield. Maybe AC Milan moving for Strootman or City moving for Wanyama will force him to move for the player now or perhaps the club are waiting to see if Nani is offloaded first? Don't panic as the window hasn't even opened yet mate.

Sydney!

After the game yesterday I suspected a statement like this was on the way. I would be really surprised if we signed anyone during the Jan window, and if we do it will be a straight replacement for Nani. Whether it's sentiment or stubbornness SAF will persist with Giggs and Scholes to the point, as we saw yesterday, of putting the team at a disadvantage. It's not just an unwillingness to acknowledge that we need quality in the centre of the park, it's a steadfast belief that Giggs and Scholes are better than Fletcher and Powell, and on a par with Cleverly.

Our opposition are wise to Scholes, get on him quick and he can do nothing. And disrupt him enough and he'll kick out and get himself booked. Scholes doesn't look like he's enjoying his football, he looks as frustrated as he was before he retired. Giggs on the other hand looks completely unaware of how far his level has dropped. These are smart men who have played at the top level for decades, they should know when they aren't up to the task anymore, and if the manager is unwilling to see this, they should do the right thing and retire. Until such time, the manager will persist with his fantasy that everything is rosy in the midfield department and hungry young players like Powell will be sacrificed to placate men well past their peak.

We are 6 points top of the league and qualified from our CL group with ease. The manager will use this to bury his head in the sand when it comes to the clear weakness in our squad. I'm genuinely worried that if we win the league this year he'll offer new contracts to Giggs and Scholes.

Danny Pughnited

Sydney

The South American window is about to open and I am sure there must be some serious talent available. Any young legs even if they give us 30 minutes as subs is better than scholes and Giggs.

Reports that Chelsea is looking at Paulinho and City might be putting in a bid for Cirigliano.

Porto and Benfica seem to make a living signing guys from south america for next to nothing and then selling them to us and other rich clubs for a kings ransom.

If I was a defender for united, I would be tired of him singling the defense out and say it's not the defense but the midfield and your problem to sort it out.

Shahram

The problem with going to the south american market is they are all a gamble no matter how good they look over there...... It is all down to risk factor...

No name

Unless we buy established stars from the pl like rvp, the same logic applies to buying in Europe, asia or north america.

I am not talking about buying Neymar but that 5 to 7 million pound bracket, which is lots of money for some those teams and they can turn out to be a steal.

Needless to say some of big signings in europe have turned out to be absolute duds but for a lot more money than that.

Shahram

Syd

I would like to think neither targets are dependent on sales or that we are waiting for others to move as we are likely to be out bid or beaten by the contract offer. We should have more than enought cash to purchase 2-3 players this Jan if we wanted to but surely we shouldn't be waiting on the other rivals to pop their bid in first.

Unless.... That is SAF's thinking in that he can then say we went in but were beaten to him then release contracts to our new signings Scholes and giggs!

Jono

Shahram, South Americans need work permits and they are not easy to get.

Jono, I think the manager wants to wait til the summer, but if a player he wants is bid for then he must buy now. Nani being sold would benefit the finances so much that if the manager really wanted a player it would be very hard for the owners to say no.

Sydney!

16 Dec 2012 08:04:27
Is anyone thinking that top clubs missed a trick with Benteke... I know we have a lot of strikers but I cant help but think a big strong target man would help us out with RVP etc running off him (maybe Lewandowski could do the job) I really like Benteke he has pace, strength, finishing ability, heading, intelligence and good build up play he would suit our style to a tee as we go outwide a lot ... I would sell Welbeck in a heart beat to make the move possible.... I have also like the look of Barry Bannan for a year or two and think for the money he would be available for maybe worth a gamble

It is getting cold outside and it appears no name has caught a bad case of motd fever.

He's a decent player, but would you have said to sign him before he scored 2 against Liverpool? The 2nd goal was hilarious defending they just let him walk past and tap it in.

GDS

Benteke is a great player, but rooney and RVP are much better, while Hernandez is just as good ( in his own way ), and even though him and Welbeck are at the same age, I think Welbeck will go on to become just as good.

Mick

GDS - MOTD fever? Have you not seen him this season in a very poor team (including against us)..

Mick - I know they are better but I was just thinking as you see how effective a powerful player can be and Lukaku would of been the perfect player before he joined Chelsea but Benteke has everything...... Lewandowski is pretty similar just not as strong.

16 Dec 2012 13:58:09
i like benteke he's a good player but not united quality yet. I think lambert is on the verge of something at villa. Its a very young side and he's had to adapt and build. A couple of signings in january and some more in summer and villa could be back in the mix next season. Bannan though isn't very good.

16 Dec 2012 07:18:35
Pls i think fergie should stop relying on giggs and scholes. Same thing he did and we lost pogba, we re 3 goals up which is a perfect moment to bring in players like powell, petrucci and co to give them first team exposure but instead u bring in two old people that were dominated again. Giggs can't even shield the ball again. Last were we had the impression pogba was not ready but look at wat he is doing at juve. Who knows who is ready again that we re yet to see.
MOGUL

I think he was trying to save players for the Swansea game. Given their form and their style of play, I expect a very tough game and a win would be huge for us.

Shahram

16 Dec 2012 05:25:56
As i posted yesterday.. Boss has came out nd said no strengthening in january..definatly not..
And nw i dnt look for any to happen.
No word game.
He has made clear things in last 3 windows nd none has arrived.
Rodio17

It is all down to cup tied players and uplifted prices in January....... I could maybe see Baines or Strootman.

The uplift in price is more significant in the summer as more teams do their transfers then and offload players that frees up some cash and can afford to spend more.

I don't believe he is being coy or crafty and believe him when he says he is not signing anyone. I think if we win the league then kudos to the man but if we come unstuck because of shortages in midfield and lose another PL title due to his stubbornness and inability to change, we have to question his judgement.

I reckon, I will get some stick for this view but spending 10 to 15 million on a defensive midfielder is not asking too much.

Shahram

16 Dec 2012 00:20:59
Some thoughts on the Scholes/ Giggs saga. (no pun intended ... ha ha)
Everyone can see that they've both gone on a season too long .....apart from SAF ... or at least that's what we think. They are legends at the club .. in some ways almost untouchable. The India cricket team currently have the same issue with Sachin Tendulkar. It's almost as if they are too legendry to treat disrepectfully and therefore they continue to be played well past their best.
It's no surprise that I feel our old couple should retire with immediate effect but we'd have to invest in the midfield in January in order for that to happen to guard against a possible injury crisis.
However I think SAF first wants to ensure that both play the minimum number of games this season to qualify for a medal should we win the league. It would clearly be desperately disappointing if they didn't. Giggs also needs one goal to maintain his record of having scored in every premiership season. SAF is mindful of that and therefore I think is playing the old couple in what he considers relatively low risk scenarios, ie 2-0 up from the bench, against the weaker teams. If that is his thinking I can live with that out of respect to our legends as long as it doesn't cost us the title. I think they will definitely retire at the end of the season if not sooner, having safeguarded their medals. Any thoughts ?
PerthDave

Interesting analogy there Dave and to some extent I do agree.

But with Sachin some people still believe he will be back but with Giggs more or less everybody(bar SAF) has accepted that he can't contribute at the highest level now.

MUMBAI_BOY

Like Sir Viv Richards said, only Sachin is qualified enough to decide when he retires. I think thats the case with 2 of United's greatest servants, Scholesy and Giggsy. IMO, Giggs certainly needs to do a Gary Neville. But not matter what he does on the pitch, he would still be "Destroying Arsenal since ... " for me. Similarly Sachin Tendulkar would go down as the best batsmen ever to have graced the game of cricket.

Deeps...

The thing with Giggs is he doesnt chase players down and doesnt run anywhere he walks and leaves space everywhere.... He keeps trying to take players on and do a Scholes-esque pass when he can not all you have to do is watch when Scholes and Giggs were playing together for the last 30 minutes against Sunderland and it is obvious that Giggs has to retire and Scholes has to be played with Cleverley or someone with Energy...

SAGA - like it, nice one.

StevieK