Manchester United Banter Archive January 16 2015

16 Jan 2015 18:50:40
I wonder what the manager is trying to achieve with consistent trashing of Falcao in the media. Poor man management I would say. He needs to support his players, not throw them under the bus.

Also does anyone have any idea why Herrera doesn't get picked?

All he said was he needs to show why he should get picked just like everyone else.

just beacuse he is falcao shouldn't just walk into the team on merit.

I find it quite odd its like he is trying to justify his decision to leave him out last week .

Then again lvg falling out with a star player

I think there is a problem here. Too much smoke for me. If he does not start tomorrow with Persie being injured, there is a problem

People (myself included) criticised Moyes saying that he didn't know how to manage World Class players. I'm not sure that dropping them so you can play your wife's friends' husband instead and then slating them in the media for good measure is what we had in mind.

Moyes fell ut with guys like ferdinand and vidic but got rooney and Janusaj on board. Looking at what some of those gyus are now, moyes was a much better man manager than this guy.

If i am sitting on the board of the club, i am already drawing plans for what is next as this is very poor, airing your dirty laundry like this is not good.

I hope the results go our way or we are looking at another crisis.

Interesting point Shahram, Januzaj looks a shadow of the player we saw last year.

We know LVG can be abrasive and whilst we don't know what is going on behind them scenes some of his statements make me cringe.

GCU

That is the Moyes who said we needed 6 world class players (indicating what we had was rubbish) and expected them to perform for him? (Regardless of whether he was right), that is the Moyes who told Rio to look at what Jagielka did? Moyes who so frustrated his own captain Vidic that he left? The Moyes that lost the dressing room?
Your assertion is frankly nonsense
LvG made a decision and we don't know the full reasons why. To be honest Falcao was a great player and as yet we haven't seen anything to persuade us to part with £42M. i am seeing with my own eyes the players are playing for LvG although the tactics are not successful so far that much is true but to further your cause you trot that out. People forget SAF did it when it suited Beckham was a classic example did that make Moyes a better man manager?

It is possible for somebody who is worse at their job overall to have one or two aspects of their job they do better Red Man.

Moyes obviously wanted Rio to do something slightly different for the tactics he wanted to deploy, rather than trying to describe this in finite detail he would have obviously pulled up a few clips where his old player did what he wanted, much easier to recognise things when being shown? I have staff show me how they do things on excel all the time, despite being overall far better than them at the main job.

Its just pedantic and twisting things, if you asked Moyes, who is better Rio or Jagielka? He would have said Rio in a heart beat!

17 Jan 2015 09:48:11
Thank you Red Man for bringing everyone back to reality. Moyes isn't great at man managing, wouldn't have got most the players to turn against him last season if so.

Ozwald - I think the senior players smelled blood. They were no longer good enough according to a lot of people, Moyes was trying to address it and they were obviously not on board. Everything and everyone outside of us lot were against Moyes from the start (most were prepared to give him a chance), he was on a hiding to nothing, even worse than AVB was for Chelsea when he tried to replace the old guard.

LVG doesn't have this problem, he will create his own though as we are seeing. We can't blame Moyes for upsetting the apple cart, nearly all of us knew big changes needed to happen, in the end he was left hanging in the transfer market and by everyone else as soon as the going got tough. Having to turn to the very people you wanted replaced to save your job is hardly a recipe for success.

Moyes was a sacrificial lamb and he looked slaughtered by the end of it. He never had what it takes, but he was a dead man walking before he even started.

Forget Moyes. Its in the past now and really doesn't deserve much attention.

What will be really interesting to see is whether Van Gaal thinks like a big club manager and tries to attack with a 4-4-2 diamond and impose our game on QPR or is far too worried about what they do and tries to negate that by going defensive with the 3-5-2. It will tell us a lot about if he is the man to take us forward.

He has no injury worries now, a fully fit squad and when played in the right system should be bucket loads of goals there.

REDFAITH

Loftus Road is a tight ground and they have given other teams plenty of problems there, they have played far better at home than away. As Manchester United we should expect to win and whatever formation lvg plays we need to move the ball far more quickly than we have been doing. We stretch the pitch by sitting deep in a 352 but then move the ball slowly and that formation gives us much further to move the ball to their goal which for me is causing us problems.
I want to see 4 at the back and look to play with pace particularly on the break, DiMaria should be important in our game plan. However, at this point, no matter what the hysteria on here, I am not going to build every game up to be a pivotal moment for LvG.

17 Jan 2015 12:04:37
Beast - It wasn't just the old players though was it? No one in the team actually looked like they were giving 110% for the manager, there was no team spirit and no determination to win games. When we went a goal down we knew there was little chance of coming back to win. The only decent thing he did was play Januzaj and if anything he played him too much too regularly for someone first experiencing the PL at a young age, he burnt out towards the end of the season which obviously hasn't helped him this season. Moyes isn't known for being a good man manager.

I wasn't really referring to LVG at all in my post, just Moyes. But as you mentioned it how are we seeing LVG create his own problem with the players? Falcao? No one knows what's going on with him behind the scenes so anything anyone says is an assumption on the matter. Herrera? although he hasn't played as much as he definitely should have (I love the guy) he hasn't shown any signs of being unhappy.

Also you recognise Moyes had a big job to do when he came in, he didn't do it well if anything he made it worse. Yet LVG comes in and you expect him to sort it all out and have us fighting for 1st, within 6 months? Talk about double standards?

@Red Man

Every game is a pivotal moment from now on actually, not for LVG, but for the club. We can't afford to lose out on the CL again. LVG really has no excuses now and needs to get the team playing good football and show why a lot of people like you have so much faith in his ability.

I don't think we should sack him regardless because I don't see any other managers out there who would take over and get us playing better for the rest of the season and be good in the long run too. We are stuck with LVG and can only hope that fixes it.

Ozwald - Rooney played well as well, he also didn't need the Captaincy to motivate him. Who has been playing well this season with any consistency?

Everton had a fabulous team spirit under Moyes, that comes with time. I don't expect LVG to have an amazing team spirit yet, nor do I expect us to all be clicking and functioning like a proper team, that would be massively unfair of me to expect that.

I just expect us to be more attacking and to be showing signs of improving, we haven't attacked and we haven't improved - that is my gripe, zero progress despite massive investment and plenty of time on the training ground, as well as the old stalwarts being moved on - LVG has free reign and he is acting like a lame duck.

With the advantages LVG has had we should be doing much better, but don't get me wrong it is not an easy job. He is just making it look a lot harder than it actually is.

Beast who are these old stalwarts you refer to out of interest?

17 Jan 2015 13:13:42
Not sure why we are still talking about Moyes but I agree with Ozwald that there are double standards. According to Beast all of Moyes' problems were from external factors whereas all LvG's problems are self inflicted. that's either double standards or manipulating facts to prove a point.

Rio, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Vidic, RVP - the influential ones that did nothing to help Moyes in my view.

Watch a bit of Celebrity Big Brother and you will see how a few of the older heads manipulate the young ones.

17 Jan 2015 13:31:51
Well De Gea has been? Anyway that's besides the point, when did I compare Moyes man managing skills to LVG's? I just stated Moyes isn't a great man manager, nothing to do with LVG but I suppose you have to have a little dig at LVG whenever you can :)

Also we have a better team spirit this year than we did last year, much better! Especially around the time we drew 1-1 against Chelsea and just after. It's good we have the team spirit, the attacking football will come. He said it usually takes him three months to instill his philosophy and get results at a new club. I think he was being naive about the PL judging by recent comments he's made.

We've shown on quite a few occasions this year that we can attack well and play nice football it's just consistency we're struggling with but people seem to remember the bad more than the good on this site.

I'm not the most convinced person you'll find that LVG will be a success at this club but you've got to have a bit of faith and give him at least a year.

Hb
There are double standards all over the place .
Truth is moyes struggled for various reason so has lvg .
people will make an excuse for one manager while having a go at the other for the same thing .
Same points after 21 games they have both been poor imo.

17 Jan 2015 14:09:50
Can't disagree with most of that, jred.
I do see that some posters are capable of being objective whilst others tend to emphasise the pros and cons to support their views. Truth is, Both had issues to deal with and both struggled to some degree. it won't get us anywhere arguing who had the easiest or hardest ride, the here and now is that Moyes has gone, LvG is here and needs to show he is capable of getting us to 3rd/4th whilst improving our performance levels.

The fact that some people here are trying to prepare us for a bad result playing a 19th place team considering our wage bill of over 200 million and the investment in the summer in players speaks volumes for how well we are doing lol.

I am really fed up and it's time this guy gets us plying decent football with our wealth of talent and we do have a lot of talent make no mistake about that and beating the teams we are suppose to beat.

I am also amused by the double standard as one seems to be staying in the penthouse suite without having to pay for it and other guy had to pay for going to the public bathroom.

Getting outwitted and out manoeuvred by mid table pl managers is an issue. If we play 352 we will struggle unless QPR allows us possession without any pressing. If they press expect a cheap goal or 2 given away by us.

16 Jan 2015 13:06:42
I would like to say we will not be signing Radamel Falcao permanently. I know he is a top player on his day and a lot of our supporters (including folk on here) are clutching at as many excuses as possible such as 'he has shown determination', 'he's looked sharp' and 'he's been threatening when he's played' in order to convince yourselves he will stay beyond this year. He won't.

It made little financial sense in the first place and after his uneventful season thus far (and his evident struggles with injury) it now makes no financial sense. His agent has already addressed the fact 'he has many great clubs interested (hawking him about early Mr Mendes)'. He will go, mark my words. If anyone can honestly say he is with an outlay of £42million plus mammoth wages for years to come then your belief is inconceivable to me.

Secondly, I keep seeing bloggers, tabloid straw clutchers and even posters on here constantly linking United to big money star studded central midfielders such as Pogba, Vidal, Koke, Busquets and the all mighty Strootman (who I am sick to death hearing about) etc. For me, if we are considering strengthening this position there are three potential targets closer to home who do the ugly work in the middle of the park which would let our flair players such as ADM, Mata, Herrera etc loosen their shackles and provide us with a more potent threat in the final third.

Anyone of Schneiderlin, McCarthy and Wanyama (probably in that order) would make a huge improvement to our team. They all have plenty of EPL experience and are aggressive, powerful and simplistic in the way they play the game. Why are we considering shelling twice the amount out on wages and maybe even fees for unproven Premier League players when we have these three guys right on our doorstep? We are Manchester United, these guys have played in England for a while now and they know we are the optimum of English football and these guys would cry out for a move to our club in a heartbeat.

One last thing, I have seen the latest tabloid junk mail about us being in for Marquinhos of PSG. Although I am convinced (as with most media stories) that it is fabricated, I will say that if any team in the world would like to play Mats Hummels at CB (which United apparently do) then Marquinhos is the type of player who would be the perfect partner for him. Like I have said before Hummels is a luxury when it comes to defenders. He has many talents but also many flaws and he needs a flexible, pacey and athletic defender beside him for his pros to outweigh his cons.

All aboard the United express!

My my. We have woken up angry today!
Agree about your gripe with players being called old when they're actually only 28.
Totally agree on Hummels. I don't rate him at all. I would much rather godin verane or laporte.
Agree on schneiderlin but please, no McCarthy or wanyama. Why shouldn't we expect pogba? If we're trying to be the best then we have to go for the best. McCarthy and wanyama are not going to cut it against the elite of Europe.

Why wouldn't McCarthy or Wanyama cut it? McCarthy has been a marvellous buy for Everton and ask any Evertonian who the most important cog in their engine is and they will all tell you McCarthy. Wanyama is powerful and can score a goal. When Celtic played the unplayable Barcelona a few years back he was the best player on the park in both games. Just because they don't have the Pogba name and reputation doesn't mean they are not very good players.

Let's be honest about things, there are many very good players throughout the years who have been pushed to the side because they rubbed van Gaal up the wrong way. Anyone who has watched Falcao over the years can see that he is a world class striker. He's coming back from a long injury and was showing some decent form over the last few games. Now obviously he has done something to annoy van Gaal and is being sidelined because of it. The same way Herrera, our most dynamic cm, is watching most games from the bench. Falcao's price tag is hefty, but he might have proven his worth over time. The reality now is that he has annoyed van Gaal and there's no coming back from that.

16 Jan 2015 14:17:46
At the end of the day (season) I'd rather have Falcao over RvP. Regardless of money, that is no concern of ours and shouldn't really be spoken about so much by fans. Falcao is the better finisher, has a better attitude and is more of a team player.

Also what you say about the midfielders doesn't really make much sense as they're all slightly different players with Wanyama and Pogba being very different. IMO we're in need of a Wanyama type player (whether he's the right one or not) over a more attacking, skillful player with flair such as Pogba. Although having said that i'd snap up the chance to resign Pogba back as he'll be one of the best midfielders in the world in a few years. I know McCarthy does a good job for Everton and did for Wigan, does the dirty work well but I think he'd struggle a bit at the highest level. He might be Everton's most important cog in their midfield but they're not exactly the most elite team in the PL.

Danny the thing is a club of United's stature is not a one man club. If Van Gaal had a personal vendetta against Falcao then the board of directors would intervene in order to resolve the issue. There are obviously underlying reasons as to why he isn't getting much game time whether that be due to injury concerns or disciplinary issues I have no idea but the coaches work with him every day and they are in a much better position to judge than you and I.

Ozwald, of course as fans we should be concerned with the clubs finances. Ask Leeds fans if they were concerned a few years back or speak to a Glasgow Rangers fan and you'll know that supporters trusts are very much involved and interested in regards to financial matters. A lot of the clubs funds is generated through us fans so it is only right we get to express our views on financial matters.

In terms of the midfielders you say McCarthy is not good enough to play at the top level yet most Everton fans are calling for him to be captain after only a few seasons at Goodison. You say we need a DM and for me he is the best out and out DM out of those three players. He will play top level one day. In regards to the comparisons I made I was just making a point that there a more 'fitting' midfielders for our team closer to home.

No they are not. But van Gaal is in sole charge of selecting the squad. And, as he has shown elsewhere, if a player gets on his wrong side, it's the end of them in his team. We paid close to £30m for Herrera and he is stuck on the bench because he didn't do exactly what van Gaal wanted him to. The club won't interfere with van Gaal's selection because he would throw a fit. Falcoa has p**sed him off and if it is not resolved, he won't be picked.

16 Jan 2015 18:19:23
Not sure we have seen enough of falcao to judge as of yet, although I agree that the figures being talked about are offputting, considering the level of risk.

I've seen mixed reviews on Mcarthy from Evertonians actually, some believe him to be a bit of a headless chicken who doesn't have enough to his game beyond workrate. Wanyama is effective but it depends on what type of player we are looking for, Schneiderlin would be the most suitable long term replacement for Carrick Imo.

I don't think Falcao or RVP will be here next season. I think we will see a massive clear out in the summer.

We had a manager who was the most successful of all time and if a player got on the wrong side of him then the player will be gone. That manager is saf and he got rid of many a star.
So now we have lvg trying to do something and all of a sudden we crtisize him. I'm in the wrong too. So let's see what happens with falcao now and then judge.

Nomid

LVG is no SAF and not fit to be compared to the greta man. saf would play guys like falcao every game get them into form because he knew talent eventually come through.

This guy is like hitlers step brother and his system is so screwed up and this week it is Falcao fault and next week it someone else for not producing the goods. Absolute disaster if you ask me an unbelievable that he would do this in public.

17 Jan 2015 03:07:33
But NM, Fergie had earned that right, through the success he had brought to the club. The fans would always trust his judgement as long as we kept winning things. LVG hasn't done anything yet to warrant the same trust.

17 Jan 2015 10:00:57
JMB - Of course fans are going to be concerned with the finances of a club if there is a lack of money, it's a bit different with our club.

So you're saying because the fans of a struggling club want a certain player to be their captain after one season with them (one and a half) that he's good enough to play for one of the biggest clubs in the world? I fail to see how that makes any sense, but I do appreciate he's a good player, for Everton maybe a great player but so was Fellaini and he's hardly setting MU alight. We need the best to be the best, that should always be the ambition of our club.

16 Jan 2015 11:59:01
I don't understand why people are so confident we will get top 4 without making any major signings this window. This weekend we could be in joint 6th if results don't go right for us, that is how close it all is so simply saying we will do it won't make it happen.

Liverpool, Spurs & Arsenal all look like they are starting to get their acts together, so we need to be much better the second half of the season to secure top 4. I haven't seen any evidence of us getting better, in fact the opposite, so taking our Utd specs off we certainly would not be a good bet for top 4 at the minute.

I'm deeply concerned now, as opposed to settling for 3rd (it makes me sick that it has come to that), I am looking over our shoulders with fear of what is storming up behind us. Some drastic changes need to be made to the playing staff and or the system for us to be in with a chance, because teams have figured us out and those underperforming teams are now getting their acts together, whilst we are still plodding along. Major concern for all of us I think.

16 Jan 2015 12:24:46
U honestly are watching arsenal and Liverpool and are fearing them? They are both as inconsistent as us lol.

The thing with the teams around us there all playing each other over the next 5 games,

we need to get at least 12-15 points out of the next 5 games while these teams are playing each other.

if lvg plays the correct formation that suits our team. i don't think we would need anyone else, defence has improved, i think its the final third that's letting us down, we missing to many easy chances.

16 Jan 2015 13:34:37
Beast,

This post is ridiculous, is your wife starting to get annoyed again? We lost ONE match, I feel tomorrow could be a tricky one as well as QPR have been decent at home, I hate to think what the meltdown will be like if we lose tomorrow. The overreaction to one defeat as been shameful.

Bearing in mind we are 4th at the moment, the bookies have us as 3rd favourites still to win the league (albeit a high price) and we were 3rd after playing each team once and having a poor start, how can you think that the team without any signings won't finish top 4?

You sound like all you do is look for the worst case scenario, did you know if we lose the next 3 games, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs win all of theirs and Burnley win their next 14 we will be 12th in the league. Or alternatively if we win tomorrow then we have 2 out 3 very winnable home games while teams around us have tricky fixtures, and we could easily have a gap again in the top 4 by the end of Feb.

There is concern because we have had a bit of a bad run, but don't tell me I have to have 'major concern' because I don't. I would hate to be so damn negative all the time, it must drive your wife mad.

You mean the spurs who just got lynched by Palace and zaha in particular in 15 mins of play!!
We dominated spurs completely in the first half we played them and should have scored 3 goals, but our attackers were wasteful.
Against Southampton, mata wasted two chances from 5 yards. These are small margins and they make the difference.

Our league position is false GDS2, we have had more than our share of luck to get where we are. Ignore the bookies, they have us getting 3rd because we have the largest fan base and anything less would be a gross underperformance. They follow the money, its a simple case of supply and demand. Which is why I am concerned too many of us are assuming 3rd or 4th will simply happen.

This isn't an over reaction to one loss, it is a reaction to the consistently poor performances we have witnessed with no sign of them increasing. DDG can't keep pulling us out of the fire and the longer the performance don't come the more pressure the manager will be under, he will inevitably attribute blame to the players not being good or intelligent enough which will lead to in fighting. The rumblings of which the eds have said are taking place as I type this.

We can all isolate one game to make a point Nomid. What about the Spurs V Chelsea match, (despite actually not being that great, just clinical). The simple fact is Liverpool, Arsenal & Spurs will in all likelihood pick up more points in the 2nd half of the season than they did the first half, nearly everyone involved in football will say they performed below expectation. I don't know about us though - it all depends on what action the manager takes, which is nigh on impossible to guess.

16 Jan 2015 14:12:13
Beast remember the golden rule the table NEVER lies. Where we are we are because we have been good enough to get to that position.

You can point towards the poor performances of other teams but you can only beat what is in front of you.

What about those times we have finished the season in second place but have amassed more points then previous teams had when they won the league. Do we declare ourselves title winners even though we finished second, clearly we had won enough games to win the league in other seasons but it wasn't enough that season.

If we finish 3rd you can point to other teams not playing well, but the fact will remain we did enough to finish in that position and as such deserved it.

We are in fouth this season so far because we have been the forth best team in the league, that doesn't mean we will stay in forth, but what ever position we finish the season in we will deserve that position.

16 Jan 2015 14:41:05
What a fun, interesting and original post from best. Not getting bored of this at all.

Yes but Shappy, this is over a season, the teams behind us look like they are getting better we do not, we are only half way through. I am saying we should be worried because it's almost like we are ahead in an 800 metre race because we sprinted off the first lap, our energy (luck) has been spent potentially and the other runners are now clawing back at us, already they are closer than we think with a hell of a long way to go.

I would also much rather play West Ham than I would Liverpool right now, likewise Southampton over Arsenal if I am being honest.

If we finish 3rd I will be reasonably happy at the end of the season, but if I were a neutral betting man I would think Arsenal, Liverpool & Spurs will only get better, with Southampton not looking like slipping unless they get destroyed transfer wise.

Ok the Great and Powerful Oz what shall we talk about?

Finances - Done
Transfers - Done to Death
Kits - Done
Owners - Done
Manager - Done to Death (Guilty)
Players - Done
Formation - Done

My post is slightly different to what we discuss day in day out, the major threats to securing CL football and why we shouldn't just assume we have a God given right to say it will be ours this season.

Chelsea and city will get 1 and 2.
I think 3rd and 4th is between united, arsenal and southampton .
I rate southampton and i think they are starting to prove the doubters wrong . Really well organized team with decent players in every position, koeman has done a great job.
Arsenal have really underperformed so far imo but if they can keep there cf and cb fit they have a big chance of top 4.
United have also underperformed imo same points as last season but a better squad imo.
We should be 3rd we should get 3rd but lvg needs to sort himself out.

Should be an interesting second half of the season

I also don't think its an overreaction to just one game.
I think people have made a lot of excuses for lvg but at the week end with a strong squad our tactics looked poor the continued 3, 5, 2 formation looked outdated .
some of the decisions looked poor, falcao , fellaini.
i think the penny dropped for a few at the weekend and people are starting to worry if the manager is the problem and not the injuries etc

16 Jan 2015 16:29:35
jred,

I think Southampton have proved a few wrong, me included with how they have continued the form / improved after they collapsed a little.

I said I thought they would struggle when they got injuries and they are now without Alderweireld, Wanyama, Schneiderlin, Mane and maybe Tadic for a few weeks. If they can get through this then I will accept I got them totally wrong and they could still finish top 4.

Gds.
All teams need a bit of luck with injuries.
Southampton will struggle with out there 3 best players alder, wanyama and schneiderlin plus 2 good regulars.
But so would united and arsenal that's football.

But southampton are capable of top 4 i think most people can see that now .

Hey beast.

city play arsenal then chelsea so say they lose them 2 games and united win the same 2 games we are only 4 points off the current champions and 2nd place

thats the same points plus 1 that liverpool are behind us does that mean city should be worried of the teams below them?

irrespective of the performances we are 4th because we deserve to be.

are we just going to get worse? and not improve over the second half of the season?

u say teams like arsenal and Liverpool and spurs are just going to get better, but as you appear to be saying we are at the worst we can be, so surely were only going to get better?

also the teams you have mesioned (arsenal, liverpool, spurs) we have beaten except spurs with better finishing would have beat them.

so we can't be that bad if were beating the teams around us?

super southampton have a much tougher away game at newcastle, then they have swansea, westham, liverpool all much tougher games than us. so in 4-5 weeks time we could be points ahead in 3rd. and the so called crisis over after 1 loss in 11

If we deserve top 4 why is everyone constantly bigging up and worried by the mighty saints ? that should tell you in its self how we have fallen.we are lucky that the chasing pack so far have been very hit and miss.we lost at home to swansea got battered away to the mighty foxes, dropped points at a piss poor villa dropped points at stoke, lost at home to southampton without a single shot on target and totally robbed them away from home.that is why we should be worried i will still stand by the team and lvg while he's here and still go to the games but let's not kid ourselves, most of the games I've been to this season we have been very very average and worst of all with lvg, s stubborness on formations teams are finding it very easy to cancel out our attacking intent.fasten in everyone its going to be a bumpy 5 months.

GDS

You are interesting character, if i were you i would give it 3 weeks before posting. Take my word for it. I am betting for a loss tomm.

17 Jan 2015 10:05:49
No I think what's been done to death, more than anything you stated is you being concerned and worried about how we're doing this season. I'm surprised how you've not got bored yourself, you probably have a saved draft typed up and just change a few words and sentences then repost it the following week ;)

16 Jan 2015 11:02:37
anyone seen the apparent united away kit for next year?

looks nice better than our recent away tops anyway

I like the new home kit too, quite retro looking.