Manchester United Banter Archive March 16 2013

16 Mar 2013 23:34:14
Well it wasn't a great performance but a vital three points especially with another City slip up. Something like only four wins needed now. But now we have a stupid international week right in the heart of the most important part of the season. Players get dragged off around the world risking jet lag at best and serious injury at worst! And such meaningless games as well. How can games against "countries" like san marino be taken seriously and such disruption be allowed to the clubs league season. They shouldn't even be allowed to compete its totally pointless, they have zero chance of winning games never mind qualifying.

17 Mar 2013 00:03:54
what an arrogant attitude. san marino have just as much right to compete as england.

Yes that totally makes sense. WHile we're at it let's kick Reading and QPR out of the premier league and the likes of Burnley, Cristal palace and co out of the fa cup because they have no real chance of winning it.

Shocking post. I'm sure Greece weren't reading into posts like this when they deservedly won the Euro's recently. And what's England won since 66? Tut tut tut.

The internationals are the same for everyone, city, Chelsea and spurs will have players away on Intl duty.
If anything, it will take the players focus off the league for a few days. This is not a bad thing.
Nomidfield

17 Mar 2013 11:20:21
Mick that's a totally stupid comment and you know it. Teams like Reading have proven that they can beat most other teams in the league how many upsets have we seen. Then look at the cups with Bradford getting to one final. And Wigan and Millwall contesting a semi final in the other. It keeps things entertaining. that's not what I was saying at all so don't twist what I was saying. The point I was making was that there are far too many pointless international games. Take San Marino for example every tournament qualifying competition they come bottom with about 30 goals conceded. What is the point of them bothering. Its barely a training game for whoever plays them. Same with Andorra. Its a bloody ski resort not a country. If these pointless little places have to take part then they should all be shoved in one group out the way of the serious qualifying. Then whoever wins the group could have a play off with New Zealand or the fifth best African team or something rather than just clogging up the international calendar. We could play an England B team but what would we learn. Nothing.

It's hardly the same Mick. To be fair the idea has already been floated that countries like San Marino should go through a pre-qualifying round. Other sports such as tennis have a similar system where a certain X amount of players qualify for Wimbledon and then there are a certain number of places open to qualifiers or wildcards. It would also cut down on the number of international fixtures played per year, which I am all for.

TK-Red

17 Mar 2013 11:58:04
The fact remains that there are too many games at international level. It doesn't help having the African cup of nations every two years this should be moved to four years like the world cup, the euro's and the copa america. There are too many teams in Uefa competing to qualify for the world cup and the euro's. Membership is something like over fifty countries all playing for what 8 places at a world cup? The euro's are being expanded because of this. The collapse of communism led to independence for a lot of countries. Czechoslovakia split into two. Yugoslavia split into six. The soviet union split into fifteen. Eleven of which are in uefa. Its created a lot of games. Incidentally how is kazakhstan a member of uefa when its in asia? I'd straight away move them back to the asian federation. I'd also move turkey and israel as well. And possibly georgia, armenia and azerbaijan as well. that's practically a whole qualifying group gone. Then there's the smaller teams as well. Andorra, san marino, liechtenstein, luxembourg and so on who are just there to make the numbers up. I get the pride in playing for your country but there needs to be some realism, these teams are the whipping boys in every group they've ever been in. Its got to be embarrassing. Other countries must look at the draw and think great a chance to get the goal difference up. Maybe these countries should just be in a group all of their own with the winner going into a play off with the all runners up in the other european groups. It would cut down on some of the pointless games you see and make things more competitive all around.

Noname slagging off countries like Andorra - your arrogance is truly astounding. England haven't exactly contributed much to world football in the last 50 years.

And some people wonder why the rest of Europe gang up against you.

StevieK

17 Mar 2013 12:57:47
Tk-red thank you someone who actually knows what i'm on about. Patzi I never said anything about Greece. I'm talking the minnows not medium teams.

16 Mar 2013 21:38:37
Syd, we all love you and you are a prolific and respected poster, but do you ever consider, even for a moment, that you might be wrong? I've apologised a couple of times for misguided posts but you do seem to flog a dead horse sometimes. Love you mate but sometimes, you're wrong, live with it.

17 Mar 2013 00:33:59
99 per cent of discussions on here are based on opinion, there is usually no right or wrong answer. Sometimes I agree with Syd, sometimes I do not. However there are times when figures are used and they are either correct figures or incorrect figures. I have no idea where syd got his figures from today regarding David Moyes and Arsene Wenger but the figures were correct going by Transfermarkt. Davey Moyes has nett spent more per a season than Arsene Wenger. That is undoubtably correct. (Palace fan) -MB-

Not sure how much Wenger has spent over 17 years proves that moyes is tactically inept

That is not correct and here is some facts since people want to make a debate about this issue.

Arsene Wenger took over Arsenal in 1996 after they had finished 3rd in the league with a pretty good darn group of players to work with and did not need to go out and spend the farm to have a competitive team to challenge for major honors. They had guys like Bergkamp, Wright and a mean back Four and seaman.

Davis Moyes took over an Everton team in 2001 late in the season when they looked like potentially being relegated and ended finishing 15 and 2 points from the drop and I would say all in all a team that was very poor.

From the time Moyes has been on the job he has spent a net of 28 million pounds and Wenger has spend a net of 48 million pounds.

Finally, I would say if you were to genuinely asses them as managers, wenger has won nothing for I don't know how many seasons at a club who have significantly more resources than everton, where moyes does not have the luxury of having money and not spending it.

This whole silly thing has come up because sydney the keyboard warrior has decided that he knows best about everything and refuses to give the Moyes credit where it's due. I disagree and that is the end of that.

I ask anyone here who is mature enough to answer, where would we be if we had spend a net of 28 million pounds over the last 10 years and would the manger still be in charge?


Shahram

AJH, Ed002 has corrected me several times on this page. So I am not sure what you mean exactly. I am often proven wrong.

MB, I did get the figures from Transfermarkt as I do not have time or the will for that matter to go through the Everton and Arsenal accounts from 2002 and 1996 respectively. If Transfermarkt is correct then Wenger has net spent less than Moyes per a season. If that is what AJH is even referring to?

Sydney!

Crazy discussion this, clearly Arsenal has a much bigger non-financial "pull" for a player than Everton.

Wenger has spent big on the kids market, and they have chosen to go there because of the status of Arsenal.

Everton can't afford to have 1 in 3 transfer success, so have to purchase proven players.

Moyes' record at Everton is incredible, keeping them where they have been year in year out is massively successful.

Wenger has taken Arsenal backwards, but is in a phase of paying off the stadium. Staying in Champs league is an achievement, but could they have kept some of their players with a more sensible wage structure? Not sure Wenger is turning out as the success story many thought he would be in the early days.

Moyes can only be judged once he's given the budget and club to challenge in Europe - until then he's just a very good domestic manager. Manchester United is a club that needs a top European quality manager, not sure we want to take a punt on someone not tested at the top table.

Since 2002/03 (TEN YEARS) Arsenal under Wenger have net spent £17.6m. That's £1. 76m per a season.

That's less than £2.8m a season is it not? So Wenger HAS net spent less than Moyes in the past ten years just like I said.

Sydney!

AJH U need to sometimes accept the truth. I don't think syd will make up figures on top of his head. He must have a reliable source to back his figures.

Singh

Not sure what we're talking about here, but will say that a man that doesn't make a mistake, doesn't do anything.

Will somebody please explain to me what Wenger has to do with moyes being tactically inept which is I think the initial point

Ok then, a question for you all. Putting aside the fact that Moyes wasn't managing when Wenger took over at Arsenal, if the roles were reversed and Wenger had taken over at Everton (and had the same budget as Moyes has had) in 1996 AND Moyes had taken over at Arsenal which side do you believe would now be in a better position?

I'm not going to say that Moyes hasn't done a good job, because he has worked wonders, but if a tactically more astute manager had been in charge at Everton then things could've been even better.

TK-Red

Look at what they have been able to spend on players over the 10 year
Moyes 130 million
Arsen 249 million
Both have wheeled and dealed but arsen can buy the better quality player

Just to clear things up, initially I said Moyes was tactically inept due to what I seen at the time as a poor tactical move at a crucial part of the game. It was out of frustration as the amount of nerves running through my body hoping City didn't turn it around was at it's highest. I don't think Moyes is tactically inept, although I do think it was a wrong move to bring Naismith on for Mirallas. So did many of the Everton fans at Goodison at the time. Luckily for Moyes the substitution never had any bearing on the game. Moyes is not tactically inept, but he is not at the level of my liking to ever become a United manager.

The second discussion was Shahram challenging me to name a manager in the EPL who has been able to consistently stay in the top half of the league challenging for Europe on £2.8m a year net (like Moyes). I said Wenger has done more on less money. Which is true. However I do understand that Arsenal have a better chance of pulling better players and I understand that Arsenal have spent more (gross), but that wasn't what I was asked.

Shahram challenged me to name a manager who has done what Moyes has done on the same money. I found a manager who has done more than Moyes on less money.

Sydney!

Arsene used to buy the better quality player. Viera and Henry were his mater strokes. Over the last few years he has had his share of duds.

TK

Moyes with Arsenal's resources would be a top manager. Wenger when he took over Arsenal, took charge of a fantastic set of players with a lot of resources at his disposal and hence the early years successes.

This was not a Wenger or Moyes discussion which I believe are both top managers BTW.

Let's agree to disagree and drop it.

Shahram

16 Mar 2013 22:56:01
A couple of months ago, when the title race was a bit closer, we were discussing both ours and how City still had to go to Goodison Park. One of the opposition regulars came on and boldly declared that "Everton will pose no problems for City" but I can't for the life of me remember who it was that said it so if any of you do remember who it was then be a lamb and be sure to rub it in their face, won't you?

TK-Red

It astonishes me that people remember things like that

16 Mar 2013 22:42:02
Daehli didn't play for the u18s today. I hope he is makinf the grade t the u21s. I hope he and Januzaj are sent out on loan next season, they look like real gems

16 Mar 2013 21:45:16
What do people think we should do for the Sunderland game? Baring in mind we have Chelsea two days later. Thinking about it Kagawa, Valencia & Hernandez rarely play on the Saturday after returning from International duty so I'd imagine they will face Chelsea in some capacity. I think a lot of the players that are not involved in international football will play. DDG, Smalling, Vidic, Evans & Buttner perhaps for the defence. Giggs, Anderson, Jones/Scholes & Nani for midfield (if he isn't going to Portugal?) Then perhaps Rooney & Welbeck upfront? I think the Chelsea game two days later will be DDG, Rafael, Rio, Vidic & Evra for defence. Perhaps Valencia, Carrick, Cleverley & Young in midfield with Kagawa & RvP upfront. What would people do?

Try not to draw line-ups as they take up too much space and will be deleted by the editor : (

Sydney! {Ed007's Note - Use the Team List section to discuss them Syd, can't you reply to posts on there now?}

16 Mar 2013 19:28:59
If City continue dropping points so often and we continue being so consistent we might even win our 20th league title with a 20 points difference from second place!

Or even 42.

TRUMORS

16 Mar 2013 19:27:25
we missed you a lot "captain fantastic"
good to see you back

Our best defender always. I think when he plays we have great record of keeping clean sheets.

Shahram

16 Mar 2013 19:24:44
Just happy to get back to our winning ways

James

16 Mar 2013 18:50:31
We came to see us win in style, and we have been treated to a ridiculous team selection. Why are kagawa and carrick rested? Why isn't Hernandez playing when rvp looks dead on his feet?
I won't be surprised if reading get a draw here.
Nomidfield

16 Mar 2013 18:11:38
I know it is a big honour to play for your country especially with a WC approaching.

But let's not forget the Euros Roy? Why was it you dropped Rio again.
You made your bed with Rio, and a full open Apology should be addressed before any comeback Mr RH

It's hodgson's prerogative who he picks, and fair play to him for swallowing his pride and selecting rio again. As for all the people who say rio should tell woy where to shove it, rio has always said he would play for England again in a heartbeat if given the chance, and it is nice to see that loyalty around when a lot footballers would rather play for their cheque rather than their country

Jaxer

16 Mar 2013 17:02:15
De Gea; Smalling, Ferdinand, Vidic, Buttner; Welbeck, Anderson, Giggs, Young; Rooney, Van Persie.

Subs: Lindegaard, Evans, Valencia, Carrick, Kagawa, Chicharito, Powell.

I have a bad feeling about the midfield but we should win the game fairly comfortably

Why no kagawa and carrick. What is he resting them for?
Nomidfield

Kagawa, Valencia and Hernandez have a lot of traveling to do on international duty (jet-lag added). Rafael, Carrick, Evra & Cleverley all needed rest.

Sydney!

16 Mar 2013 16:58:54
Team Sheet:

De Gea, Smalling, Ferdinand, Vidic, Buttner, Young, Anderson, Giggs, Welbeck, Rooney, Van Persie.

Not too wild about smalling at right back and anderson giggs midfield. Let's see how we go.

Shahram

Agree shahram. Reading are packing midfield and we've gone in with two in the middle.
I despair
Nomidfield

Hate the way we are playing even though leading 1-0, slow and sloppy. ferdinand has been our best midfielder :)

shahram

Yeah it's cutting the play out, but that damn rain ain't helping

Just asking for trouble, why will we not bring kagawa and carrick on is beyond me. Our midfield sucks. This team is in 19th place and they have more possession than we do. Poor Poor Poor.

Shahram

16 Mar 2013 15:33:42
Don't shoot the messenger but I have a bad feeling about the Reading game. I hope i'm wrong but I just feel Reading may get a shock result. It might be because everyone is so sure we'll win bringing out stats like Reading have only beaten us once and that was in 1927. And that they are managerless. But this is the kind of game that we inexplicably lose.

I hope everyone can come on here later and slate me for being so pessimistic, and if we win I will happily take it on the chin.

Fingers crossed for a win, but this is the first time i've had a bad feeling about a game this season, every other time i've had a feeling like this we have dropped points. But nothing would make me more happy than to be wrong this time.

16 Mar 2013 16:00:33
I'll do you one better, I'll come on here NOW and slam you for being so pessimistic. ;)

Da Rob Man.

I don't want to sound like an arse, but that's the wrong use of the phrase "don't shoot the messenger", otherwise I agree with you Shappy. It is the type of game that could prove a lot trickier than it looks on paper, that's why I'm glad Giggs is playing, to make sure the job gets done. I would also have liked to have seen Kagawa starting instead of one of our strikers, I'm not sure which I would take out though.

Jaxer

Its a shame we've started with this team. Carrick and kagawa had to start, or is saf trying to make the league interesting?
I hope we don't get overrun in midfield.

16 Mar 2013 14:57:14
We don't want to get ahead of ourselves after that City result. The players have to be professional and make sure we securely get the win and not sit back when 2-0 or 1-0 up. I really hope for a strong line-up.

If we win this game today there will be the tiniest chance of us losing it now, even if we do slip up against City, Arsenal and Chelsea.

Another point i'd like to make is the fact RVP hasn't scored too many goals in 2013 and hasn't been in his best of form, although he does still create a lot of chances for us. Just hoping he bags himself a goal or two today to keep his confidence high.

We need a RvP hat-trick to get himself in the mood again, a clean-sheet to keep DDG playing at his best.

Sydney!

Vidic is playing which should men we will be tight at the back.

shahram

If Robin gets a hat-rick it will sure shut up the liverpool fans getting to excited over Suarez, currently losing to Southampton 3-1!

I just hope we don't think too little of Reading, they might surprise us!

16 Mar 2013 14:52:12
They won't be singing blue moon in the soccer Saturday
studio this May!
LP

16 Mar 2013 14:27:38
Its highly likely that RVP will end up as the Clubs player of the year but I think DDG is up there as the best performer this season for us.

Difficult choice imo. DDG, Rafael, Ferdinand, Evans, Carrick or RVP could all stake a genuine claim imo. Good sign though.

s20c

16 Mar 2013 13:25:28
coleman looks a really good attacking rightback this season, be a good back up to rafael.

Coleman is no spring chicken so to speak, he turns 25 this year. An under study should be younger than Rafael. Coleman is a little "headless chickeny" for me.

Sydney!

There both too good to be backup to anyone else

Don't know much about him but he has been a handful for city and has got some engine on him.

Shahram

16 Mar 2013 13:18:39
WOW! what a goal from Osman.

JK92

16 Mar 2013 03:14:37
Hey ed004 how are things?im just wondering in your opinion what do you think might happen as regards ins and outs?i genuinely think along with Zaha that we will see a GK (begovic), CB, CM (strootman/Wanyama most likely strootman) and either a versatile attacker or striker. I think nani is as good as gone and as much as I'd love bale or ronaldo back I don't see either of them ever happening. I genuinely think saf is looking for that flair/spark in the team and Zaha could be developed that way but I think 1 more versatile attacker will arrive. a left back could be possible too but doubtful. i'd like to see will hughes here and developed he's a fantastic all round midfielder and is only 17/18. what do you think?thanks {Ed004's Note - I think Begovic looks likely if Lindengaard leaves, Zouma but only if one of Vidic or Rio leaves, Strootman and Rodriguez. Strong possibilities include Baines, Shaw and lewandowksi but the others look more likely}

I would be happy with begovic, shaw strootman and rodriguez in anderson, lindegaard, nani or valencia out and scholes to retire -----phil

Ed don't you think Begovic is too darn good to be a backup keeper? {Ed002's Note - Begovic would not arrive to be second choice.}

Ed don't you think Begovic is too darn good to be a backup keeper? {Ed002's Note - He will not move to sit on the bench at Old Trafford.}

It would be a shame to lose De Gea, but if the lad wants to go back home, there's not much we can do.

16 Mar 2013 12:25:10
Country over club any day of the week, our countries football team suffers because of the clubs (and some supporters) self importance. I would give up my wage to play for my country, should be any mans dream.

Snakey.


Dear Snakey think you are very lost and you happen to have stumbled onto the Manchester United Supporters page and then you have made the mistake of mixing us up with people who give a toss about England. It is true that most of us do have 2 teams that we support but they are Manchester United and Manchester United reserves. I suggest you go on the West Ham page and talk about how great England are and hopefully never darken our door again. Y. C. S. Y. F. E. U. Y. A

Ah kloot,

So your opinion is the correct one and we aren't allowed to support our country, there's a surprise.

16 Mar 2013 09:15:52
And can I just add to this by saying I didn't try belittle anyone else GDS I wasn't being smart just wanted to get my opinion across was just making a case and arguing my point I didn't try to undermine anyone by making smart comments just feel you have an unfair advantage being the away team in the second leg!
Jamal.
-------------

Sorry mate I'm unsure where I said you belittled anybody? I said you had pressed agree on your own posts loads of times and disagree on other people's posts loads of times. Nobody else agreed with what you said but you have 12 agrees and 1 disagree on your post so it's quite obvious you did that.

I think you argued your point quite well without trying to be smart etc just I and the others posting thought your argument was a little flawed. If a home teams advantage didn't exist then there would be no such thing as away goals in the first place.

Finally, what I would give to be 15 points clear tonight, even 14 would be nice! Come on Gibson and Neville! Then come on united, tonight could be the night we move out of sight on points and goal difference.