Manchester United Banter Archive March 16 2018

16 Mar 2018 23:25:57
Maybe this won't be popular but I recall joining this site about 8 years ago and couldn't believe the arrogance, the expectation that we would just carry on being at the top, always winning. I remember writing about our arrogance, our presumption of our "natural" position. Then I remember when SAF left those 11 points we won the league by were insurmountable on here, all utter arrogance.

I read Mourinho's transcript and you know what, it's true. We have sat around for years thinking we were at the top table, sneering at the others, when actually it's been sporadic we have been up there and not for some time. We are and have been kidding ourselves. All this beautiful football tripe, it's arrogance. Even under SAF we rarely breathed that rarified atmosphere the Bayern's, Barca's and Madrid's breathed, we thought we did but went out when it mattered. It's a harsh truth but it needed saying, we have not had the burning desire, the determination or sat at that top table for a long time, if ever. It's our position, we have become the scousers of the nineties with our sense of entitlement. It's about time something shook us out before the clock clicks to ten, fifteen years. We can't click our fingers and everything changes, we have been dreaming, dreaming of the United way. It got us 3 Champions leagues, watching the Arsenal game, Milan have what 7 European cups? Reality is we have been small time in Europe, because of our own arrogance, self importance attitude. The Babes would have won us many, but with deep regret they didn't. We have that sense of being short changed, that sense of unfairness, something taken away. It's time to set our stall out, the mentality to win not once but repeatedly and if Jose can do that it's about time. The man wins, we have lacked that mentality through all levels of the club since SAF and to be honest his shop steward mentality, his old ways didn't bring the success in Europe it should have done.

No you won't like the above, but maybe it is the wake up call we needed. Maybe the football needs to improve but we need to work to achieve what we want, it won't be given to us and we have flattered to deceive for too many years.

16 Mar 2018 23:58:46
I think Jose told a few harsh truths recently that won't go down well with many of our fans.

Good post red man.

17 Mar 2018 00:12:45
How does parking the bus help this Red Man?

17 Mar 2018 01:14:01
Yes, we have been miles off the top table in Europe for years but that is no excuse for the underperforming, subordinate approach and style of play this egomaniac has been delivering for a sustained period.
The guy has basically talked down the team and club to justify and defend his own means and reputation. It isn't on.

17 Mar 2018 01:54:31
great post red man.

17 Mar 2018 06:01:59
It's really amazing what blind fanboyism can do to people. I remember a certain ex Everton manager telling us that we need to aspire to be like city, people were baying for his blood when he said that, there was another manager from the other Mersey side club who went on a similar "FACHTS" rant and most utd fans couldn't stop laughing at it.

Now the shoe is in the other foot and suddenly a similar rant is the cold hard truth and arrogance and most laughable of all it is apparently passion.

There was a post by someone quoting ozil's autobiography telling us how mourinho said things post Sevilla to take pressure off the team and protect players and yet 2 days after that here he is telling us that it isn't his fault because city have inherited a better team and he has inherited rubbish.


This are not truth or passion or anything such, this is usual nonsense from a man who has a history of blaming everyone but himself for his own failures.

Also when he went on the history rant yesterday the question was why couldn't you beat Sevilla his answer was because city have a better team and utd have been rubbish in Europe.

This is now considered truth apparently.

17 Mar 2018 06:30:58
Red Man, good post and he did indeed bring a dose of reality to the table. Sadly, this will deflect from his own short comings; we are all now realising he has a point and not talking about the pathetic display against Seville¡ the parking the bus at Anfield when we were flying.

Here’s a question for the Jose fans. Why have we got progressively worse as the season has progressed? Scoring fewer, dropping more points? Something ain’t right.

17 Mar 2018 07:21:47
We are man United we should be arrogant just like Munich Barcelona and Madrid.

17 Mar 2018 08:41:46
In this life I don't believe anyone has a right to be arrogant.

17 Mar 2018 08:52:10
Madrid have gone through 13 managers in 15 year
Munich 11 managers in 14 years .
Barce 8 in 13 year .
High standards them boys.

17 Mar 2018 11:13:50
Sure but arrogance?

17 Mar 2018 19:25:12
Angle
90% of top sportsmen are you need that belief.

17 Mar 2018 19:39:35
RedMan. All well writing all that and to be honest all of us knew that United have underachieved in Europe. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. The Scousers remind us of the 5 times they've won it. So we don't need mourinho to rubbing insult into injury.
How is that supposed to motivate the players? How is that supposed to get the fans onside and excited?
And more importantly, what is the great Mourinho doing about it? Not a lot. FACT!

16 Mar 2018 20:46:57
Long post here so apologies. Read this site multiple times a day every day like most, though so rarely post, but all I hear about lately is that we are awful and nowhere near a title winning team.

So I just wanted to put a little context onto our 'terrible season'. I am not talking style, enjoyment or opinion on who needs to stay or go. This is simply pointing out a statistic I worked out when bored.

Here are the last 10 seasons of the premier league with points and GD:

2017 - Chelsea 93 points +52
2016 - Leicester 81 points +32
2015 - Chelsea 87 points +41
2014 - Man City 86 points +65
2013 - Man Utd 89 points +43
2012 - Man City 89 points +64
2011 - Man Utd 80 points +41
2010 - Chelsea 86 points +71
2009 - Man Utd 90 points +46
2008 - Man Utd 87 points +58

Man Utd this season, assuming we get no better or worse:

30 games, 65 points which will equal just over 82 points by seasons end (65/ 30*38=82.33)

The average points scored for the premier league winners over the last decade is 86.8.

Without a strong finish, and keeping the same 'terrible' form we have had all year, we would be around 4 points off the average title winning tally of the last decade.

Goal difference for the last 10 years averages at 51.3 and ours this season is averaging to be 44.33. Not fantastic but still a higher good than 4 of the last 10 premier league winning hauls.

I know this doesn't highlight style or opinion, and certainly does not compare things to the current city season, but it does show we're not far off where every other winner has been if you discount the anomaly that is Man City's season.

Not that it'll stop the doom and gloomers or whingers from coming up with something else I guess!

16 Mar 2018 21:02:48
Mike - I think most of us are acknowledging that the points haul is decent. We are expecting better though, as City are raising the bar and it doesn't look like a fluke. Our points tally does look like a fluke though, considering how poor we have played.

I think your post sums up exactly why Jose was granted a contract extension. Based on history and statistics the points paint a decent picture.

For me you have to factor in budgets, entertainment value/ style, talent optimisiation and success.

Finishing a long 2nd (or worse) is not success for Man Utd, getting knocked out of the CL by a mediocre Sevilla is not success, damaging the brand/ pedigree of the club is not success, disrespecting the fans with post match comments and general lethargic performances is not success.

So on paper Jose is doing ok. But the problem is 'paper pushers' are making the decisions and our manager is doing everything he can to box tick. Sponsorship's rely on it, targets/ bonuses rely on it - it's supreme selfishness by the money men and the manager.

Where is the box to excite and thrill your loyal fans, to have world class talent performing to a world class standard? Where is the box for continuing the fine traditions that Man Utd stand for all over the world.

My eyes tell me that everything is a grind, grinding isn't permitted on the dance floor anymore, it shouldn't be permitted for our club!

16 Mar 2018 21:31:33
Spot on beast you’ve hit the nail on the head. People are saying it’s only one defeat but it is the manner of the defeat and the style of play which is the issue. As the season has gone on it’s been harder to watch. So much attacking talent at our disposal so we should not be this inept in attack. Yes on paper and statistically we have improved there is no doubt. But I’m reality the football is still very poor. Like I’ve said many times I would like a new manager to come in but it won’t happen till next year I think, if it gets to that stage. So all we can do is support the team and hope reinforcements in the summer improve us. But unfortunately I don’t think we will see the swashbuckling gung ho football we all crave so dearly.

16 Mar 2018 22:14:15
I do not disagree whatsoever on the style and entertainment issues, and I've been as frustrated and and bored at times as the rest of you. I have zero issues with people hating the way we play, Jose's tactics or our general approach as that is opinion and I too have been spoiled for the last 2 decades.

My problem is that people assume that this season is the new average bar. I had the same conversation during the Invincibles season, and when Chelsea set the +71 goal difference. Everyone said that this is the new level yet history shows that it can't be sustained year on year.

I'm simply saying, all is not lost and there's every chance that City end on 75-80 points next year and we walk the title. The style however, well Jose will not change so that we are stuck with!

16 Mar 2018 22:19:16
Said all season Jose is doing what he does . City have raised the bar so it doesn't look that good but it's about par for Jose, any other year we of challenged for title .

People call the squad etc but we are about par for a Jose team .

16 Mar 2018 23:05:02
Mike,

Very good post mate you should post more often, informative and clearly knowledgable. Some very good posters on here at the moment posting some very good things at a pretty interesting time for the club.

16 Mar 2018 23:57:10
This is optimum Jose as Jred says - it's not good enough anymore I'm afraid and the spectacle is getting worse as a result. Here's an analogy for you GDS2 (I know you love them) . Jose is playing on a PS2, he is a master at the PS2 - but the world has moved on to newer models, no matter how many new games he buys, the system is flawed compared to newer models and the graphics look even worse the further time goes on.

Maybe City won't amass as many points next season, but there standards need to drop substantially for our current style to compete and then it's a coin toss as we rely on keeping teams out and nicking goals, dodgy strategy against attacking teams. Time to take the PS2 to the charity shop and get a PS5, we have the games to play on it already - just the system is obsolete!

17 Mar 2018 08:00:55
The way I see it, there are two types of fans in football. Those who inherit allegiance from their parents or their hometown, and those who choose to support a club based on the playing style of that club.

I had lived in Middlesbrough for several years (mother is from there), I met many a United fan who was a United fan because of parents and grandparents. On the flipside, I've a cousin who supports Liverpool because when he developed a taste for football, he enjoyed their style, much to the disappointment of his Boro supporting father.

Anyway, my point is. I understand that winning trophies is good for business. United must finish top four for financial gain (although qualifying for the CL to drop out the way we did seems counterproductive) . But if the club simply is no longer entertaining, we run the risk of losing a large number of potential future supporters. Sure we'll continue to have fans who inherit the club from a parent, or geography, but what about those who go into the game neutral and discover a team by watching them.

With the idea of us being a global brand at the forefront of our finances, it seems shortsighted (in terms of conquering new markets and amassing new fans) for our board to embrace the dull and boring football of Mourinho. All the trophies in the world will mean nothing if no one wants to watch us and our reputation becomes that of boring unattractive football.

Something has to change, or we risk being knocked of our financial perch, regardless of points, trophies and José's previous wins.

PS: Concerning José's speech, surely "football heritage" goes beyond eight years. He seems to have selected a period of time where the stats suit him. What about the century prior to that? What about "football philosophy"?

16 Mar 2018 18:33:44
Personally, I loved José's recent press conference. You can sense the fire and frustration he has, that so many people don't realise (or won't accept) how far Utd have fallen in recent years. He inherited a very poor squad which is still a little off realistically challenging for the PL (don't forget we are 2nd though), but far, far off being competitive in the CL. Yes, José will never play the style of 'gung-ho' football we witnessed before and under Sir Alex - but he does set the team up to play pragmatic football. Pragmatic, not boring. His first season with Chelsea blew the rest away, and they played good and very powerful football. The difference is that at Utd now he doesn't have the squad or cohesion between the players yet to do this. He clearly doesn't trust some of the players and sets up the tactics accordingly to compensate. His first year was about stabilising the club and shipping out deadwood. Last year was building on that, and I'm hopeful that a good summer's investment will put us right back on track to being competitive on all fronts. I think some people need to come to terms with the fact that under José we will never play a cavalier style of football, but once he has the right players, cohesion and balance we are in for some very good times ahead! GGMU!

16 Mar 2018 18:47:19
Agree doc.

16 Mar 2018 19:37:11
I’m not a fan of Mourinho but I thought it was a good showing. He seems up for it and he’s clearly fed up with criticism so wanted to share a few home truths. Whilst I agreed with it the one question that needed to be asked was “do you think your team is good enough to have beaten Seville? ” Everything he said today made sense, but it didn’t explain the dismal showing on Tuesday.

16 Mar 2018 20:06:54
Maybe some of the players have started to power down slightly in their intensity due to the world cup being just round the corner and the threat of injury is in the back of their mind, maybe some of the players don't buy into the whole idea of having to 'earn' jose's trust, maybe jose needs to delegate more so he can be more hands on, perhaps the players' agents are doing their usual job of trying to get their clients a new contract for more money, or even wrangle a move away unless their charge gets more game time, it could be umteen things, but for me, the one true question to be answered for all concerned is simply this, jose mourinho will never ever be 100% focused on being the manager of united until he resolves the problem of him being here, and his family being in london (unless they've moved up and i missed that, then i apologise), how can he be at ease going back to the hotel (i think he's still there), after a while that must get old really quick, but no-one will mention this, i think this definitely detracts for everyone concerned, from his family, the man himself, and to the club, that's the elephant in the room for me, yes he can operate at a certain level, but is it giving him and the club the best possible chance in the long run, so for me that's why i think he won't be the manager in years to come, whether or not you like him or not, and do the players sense this, who knows, but as the old adage goes "happy wife, happy life", can the gaffer put his hand up and say that's him in a nutshell?

16 Mar 2018 20:08:02
Ajh,

Dont you honestly think the players coudlve tried harder.

I juat rhink the players played piss poor, they didn't try enough until the first goal went. That is just not acceptable it doesn't matter what tactics you play.

I have been in positions whether that is work or sport . I may have not liked the job i was asked to do but i bloody tried and worked my socks off to atleast give it a go to see if i like it or see if i could find success in it.

16 Mar 2018 20:38:15
That Seville performance wasn't a one off.

I've lost count how many times people have said they were disappointed with the performance this season, sometimes they justify it with us getting points, when we don't get points it's a 'bad day at the office'.

If Seville was a one off, why do we see all these questions about maybe winning things in this negative style and 'results business' comments?

The away tie was just as bad, countless games this season we have looked uninterested, tired and lacking ideas - the consequences of what happened Tuesday was we rightly got knocked out. Normally we just lose points, or the will to live if we manage to get 3 points despite being rubbish to watch!

I have no doubt whatsoever that if Jose is our manager in 12 months time we will still be making excuses and we will be well behind City, PSG, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich etc. Jose is a talker, talk is cheap - isn't it a results/ entertainment business? If I want to hear spin and excuses I'll tune into watch politicians!

16 Mar 2018 20:39:12
Maybe Singh but the Manager is there to get the best out of the players, he’s regularly failing to do that.

17 Mar 2018 01:58:05
He is over achieving to have this squad 2nd ajh.

16 Mar 2018 17:30:19
{Ed's Note - Josh Gilbert has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool Senior Squad Regulars - A Statistical Analysis: Part 2: Midfielders and Forwards

16 Mar 2018 16:47:51
Jeez, that press conference. José's ego on a full rampage for 12 minutes.

Look everyone knows that José inherented a relatively poor United side. But, he has been given hundreds of millions to set this right. The reality is that he hasn't been able to get the most out of the players at his disposal. Yes Pep started with a better squad, but what José doesn't seem to grasp is that in less than two years Pep has improved his players.

We have a team of very good players who are incapable of playing like a very good team, that's on José, and all his ranting doesn't change the fact.

16 Mar 2018 18:52:55
I actually wonder what they do in training all week.

16 Mar 2018 19:27:36
Going by the lazy arse way the players approach the game and the lack of movement they must be smoking tabs and eating the clubs 'cows forehead and potato' pies during the 'training' sessions.

16 Mar 2018 14:09:08
Watching mourinho's press conference only reaction I can muster is wow, it seems he really wants us to hate him.

16 Mar 2018 14:38:42
He’s reeled off our poor league and CL form since SAF, doing a Rafa and staying FACTS. Think he means to say fans go on about heritage but our recent heritage sucks, apart from our Europa league win and improvement in league position both under him.

16 Mar 2018 14:49:54
Wrd he can rattle off as many stats and facts he wants the only fact that matters is Sevilla an average team which is going to get smashed by bayern thoroughly outplayed us over 180 mins.

The reporters are idiots, when he was going on about heritage someone should have asked him what his excuse was for being outplayed by a team that cost less than pogba and lukaku combined or was it moyes, lvg and fergie's fault?

16 Mar 2018 14:50:36
He has hit the nail on the head. It is exactly what a lot of us have been saying .

He has taken over a really crap defense. A very old and disjointed midfield and a very young attack .

Compare that to Man City where Guardiola has taken over the likes of De bruyne, Silva, Aguero and Kompany who know how to play in big games and win titles and he has just built on those foundations to take the team forward with the signings he has made.

{Ed004's Note - I am not defending his team selection and tactics midweek at all. But no one was on here criticising the exact same selection of tactics and formation we played vs Chelsea and Liverpool so I can see why he played it again. Pep had foundations to work with and has spent considerably more than Jose. Now we have our foundations we need to catch up with Pep.
We have some excellent players in our squad going forward now in De Gea, Bailly, Matic, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial and Lukaku (who I must say has completely won me over recently - Even my lpool supporting mates couldn't believe how much his hold up has improved) and some excellent squad players to have as cover next season with Romero, Valencia, Smalling, Rojo, Shaw (hopefully pre season gets him in shape), Herrera, McTominay, Radford, Mata and Lingard. I guess Jose should know to expect this managing the biggest club in the world. No other manager in the world would come under this much scrutiny sitting 2nd and still in the FA Cup.}

16 Mar 2018 15:07:19
Top top reply Ed and agree with Lukaku, he was someone i thought wasnt goos technically and looked like a boxer, but he has improved so much in terms of hold up play and that is all down to his hard work.

We have a great spine to work from next year and just need to upgrade a few positions to really challenge next year.

Scrutiny will come because a lot of fans hate us for one reason or another and likely so because of how much we have won in the past.

But they are fans and they will act like fans so Jose is just deflecting all the negativity and stated all the facts today why United are in the position they are today and where they are heading.

I wouldn't really complain if we won the fa cup this year and finish second, that would have us with 4 trophies in two years under this diajointed Jose team.

{Ed004's Note - Agreed 100%}

16 Mar 2018 15:10:44
Ed004 his defense works if he is defending why he is behind city, not when he is defending why he got thoroughly owned by Sevilla or is he saying we are so rubbish that we can't be expected to beat a team that has gotten 5 put past them 5 times this season.

{Ed004's Note - His defence works because what he is saying is true. We are currently in a transitional period, he inherited a weaker side than Pep and traditionally we have been poor in Europe. Even under Fergie we were relatively poor only winning it twice with both being a bit fortunate. Can anyone say that if Jose left tomorrow he would be leaving us worse off than when we he got us? Or that we haven't improved since he joined.
And before someone fires the he's spent a lot of money line, that money was available to Moyes and LVG was not afraid to spend either. In fact if you took the time value of money into equation LVG spent a very considerable amount. Di Maria for 60 mill back then would have been a whole lot more now etc. Pep inherited KDB a 50 odd million signing how much would he cost nowadays to sign? Certainly a fee exceeding Pogbas}

16 Mar 2018 15:22:30
ed he changed it from the Liverpool game. fellani and matic in the middle
Changed rashford around, should have played Mata.
Pogba on the bench as bad as he is lately he could have done something.
Fellani was out for weeks and he started him.

{Ed004's Note - So he made two changes to starting 11 but played near enough exact same style of play. Only really significant change was Rashford on the right}

16 Mar 2018 15:36:44
CSM as much as I think Jose isn’t the right man to take us forward he was spot on with what he was saying. We may be one of the biggest clubs in the world in stature, but we have been a very poor team on the pitch since sir alex left. Since 2011/ 12 we have hardly had any champions league football. And when we have we have been utterly pathetic. A lot of our players don’t have the mentality of the old United because there is nobody left from sir alex’s Era apart from De Gea, Valencia, smalling, Jones and young. I don’t count Carrick as he has hardly played. Of the ones I have mentioned, only De Gea is worthy of being in the first team. As fans we expect to be challenging for top honours but at the moment we are living of our reputation under sir alex rather than the reality that we have been a mediocre top 4 challenger. So yes we expect the best but Jose inherited a very poor squad in comparison to pep, so the playing fields have not been level. However, it is clear that pep is a better manager and he style Jose is trying to play is unacceptable. Whilst I do not think Jose will win is the league, I do agree that in comparison to recent times, we are doing much better and in fact he has done the best since sir alex left. But let’s be honest that’s not difficult after the last two distastrous appointments before him.

16 Mar 2018 15:40:28
Totally agree ED. All the usual moaners who were quiet whilst we were producing excellent results are screaming louder than ever because we lost a game. Yes it was a big game but we are so much better than we have been since Fergie left.

This is the BEST team we have had since he retired and we are on course to finish in our highest position in that same time period!

{Ed004's Note - And hopefully by the end of the summer he has a squad that he is ready to mount a challenge with - which I fully expect him to do. There's only one question mark out of his 8 signings so far for me and that's Lindelof (Not counting Zlatan due to injury and him being the best available at that time).}

16 Mar 2018 15:43:57
Actually Ed I think I said there wasn't much difference between the home game against L'pool in which we won and the away game which everybody likes to point out as the epitome of anti football other than Lukaku was able to hold the ball better and we were clinical. Anyway i'm not saying I'm right only I don't think the tactics were that much different between the two games.

I've said on numerous occasions that the result is all that matters to me but accept that once results suffer there is no hiding place with that brand of football and it becomes hard to defend.

He was allowed to rant but why didn't anybody ask him why he selected a half fit Fellaini or switch Rashford to the right hand side where I don't think anybody has ever seen him play a good game. Why was Mata benched?

It's easy to identify our lousy form since Fergi retired. Moyes and LVG were useless and rightly lost their jobs and we we're all just as furious with some embarrassing abject performances when they were in charge.

The performance against Sevilla had nothing to do with our recent 'heritage' and everything to do with cowardly and insipid tactics.

Once again everybody is talking about Jose or busy researching our history so he doesn't have to answer difficult questions about his tactics or a perceived lack of intensity and desire shown by the players.

I suppose it's another Jose masterclass is some respects.

16 Mar 2018 15:45:05
Again ed004, guardiola and city don't come into this. He wasn't beaten by guardiola or any other big club in europe he was beaten by sevilla, a team that hasn't spent anywhere near he has spent.

He will leave us better than he found us, i donot disagree with that. But give guardiola/ pochettino/ klopp 300mn they will leave us better than they found us. He wants to spend atleast 200 may be 250mn more, that would take his eventual spending to 500-550mn.

Yet when we face city/ liverpool/ chelsea/ tottenham or any other half decent side he will park the bus and play stoke city football. Give any of the above mentioned managers 500mn they will improve the team win the same trophies mourinho will win and play good football to the boot. There will always be games where he doesn't want to lose and draw is his only motive, like it was when we went to liverpool or away to sevilla.


A friend of mine recently gave me a book, its called "What Got You Here Won't Get You There" we are facing the same situation with mourinho, he was good to get us through the post lvg phase, get us into top 4 and likely keep us there but if we want to win the league and be in a fight every season for the league we need a better manager.

{Ed004's Note - I can't see what better manager there is out there that's going to garuntee us trophies not with Peps current City side and unlimited budget being around as well. I'm also going to note one factor that hasn't really be noted so far. Other than Alderwereild have any of the other top 6 sides lost a key player that the team is built around for long periods of time? Because Jose has had to deal with long term injuries to both Pogba and Bailly both of which were fundamental to our fantastic start to the season where we played great football. Jose has then had to rely on players like Lingard, Fellaini, Smalling, Jones etc that supporters on here are quick enough to note aren't good enough for us.

I've mentioned multiple times that I won't defend what happened on Tuesday as it was cowardly and awful from us. It was almost as if the occasion got to us and maybe that's down to the players lack of experience or poor managerial instructions I'm not sure. I just don't get this recent wave of 'let's go sack another manager' when he has blatantly improved us and when he does leave, will leave us in a far better position. Also the money reason that keeps coming up. Has Conte improved that Chelsea side after spending 100+ million on Bakayoko and Morata or did LvG leave us better off after spending a fortune, atleast the majority of Jose signings have worked out well. Could the likes of Moyes have been able to get Bailly ahead of Pep, Pogba ahead of Madrid, Sanchez, Zlatan, Matic etc who all came for Jose}

16 Mar 2018 16:09:33
I think somebody explained to Jose just how he sounded after the game on Tuesday .
It's a valid point city had better players than utd when he arrived but what he neglected to mention was he picked smalling who was already there over a CB he payed tens of millions for and he played Fellini who was already there over the guy he payed a world record fee for in the same position . It's ok to point out players he inherited aren't as good as cities but then select them over the players he has actually bought himself .

{Ed004's Note - Lindelof is currently adjusting to the league, similar to Bernardo Silva (50 mill) who isn't getting in that City first 11 side. Additionally, Smalling was the only other option due to injuries to Rojo and Jones. Pogba I don't understand unless he wasn't fully fit}

16 Mar 2018 16:10:25
Bang on 004.

16 Mar 2018 16:16:07
Fantastic post Ed I'm annoyed as well but I fully agree with you. I think we might be in the minority though.

{Ed004's Note - I was annoyed as hell on Tuesday. Completely ruined my night and I can't even remember if I posted on here or if I had the whit to wait until my emotions died down or not. I just, for the first time since Ferguson left, see us on a gradual improvement and don't think sacking a manager will help us in anyway}

16 Mar 2018 16:18:26
That’s a great response above ed can’t argue with any of that. But with the players at our disposal there is not excuse to be parking the bus against top sides. I think that’s the grievance we all have. But I suppose we knew what we were in for when we hired Jose. And he most probably won’t change. If he doesn’t then by this time next year it will be very very toxic. If PSG did come in for him maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen. It’s important now for Jose to settle on a formation and team selection. He needs to find a way to fit pogba in the same side as Sanchez. He needs to keep bailly fit and partner him with lindelof as there is potential there. Mata needs to be one of the first names on the team sheet at right wing as he is the only player win composure on the ball i'm the final third. We are a poorer side when he is not in. I would move Sanchez centrally as a second striker off Lukaku and play him into form, not on the left at the expense of martial and rashford. I would then play shaw over young and give him the time to make the position his own till the summer, then upgrade him. These are small changes that would improve us massively. And finally, I would get the team playing ten yards further up the pitch so that when pogba picks he ball up it’s not inside our own half. Let’s start playing properly and giving teams problems instead of giving them the initiative. Let’s be realistic, Jose won’t be sacked in the summer so we have to support the team and invest properly in the summer. The foundations are there but Jose is not utilising it at all.

{Ed004's Note - That's near enough exactly what I think we should do. I'm torn between whether we should go 4231 and play Sanchez central to get the best out of him or play 433 with Pogba on the left side and get the best out of him. I think both players are stepping on each other's toes currently. Think Valencia needs rested for Young alongside Lindelof/Rojo beside Bailly and Shaw on the left. Nothing left to lose so hopefully we play attacking and aggressive football. Think that's the best way for Jose to win back a large amount of the fans he's lost}

16 Mar 2018 16:28:44
Ye need to make a feature to agree with the Ed’s, great reply ed004.

{Ed004's Note - Thank you}

16 Mar 2018 16:32:40
It's funny how other teams don't seem to give time to under-performers. I'm pretty sure Koeman took over an ageing defence and was waiting for signings to click for example, he was rightfully sacked as the signs were not good.

If we had been decisive with LVG (Christmas time 2nd season) we would have probably qualified for the CL that season rather than the waste of space Europa League. Had we been decisive this Christmas rather than handing Jose an extension (WTF) then we'd still be in the CL, simply telling our far superior players to just do what they do naturally would be enough to beat Sevilla easily.

There have been countless managers that have been hired and fired in the same period that Jose has been in charge. They didn't have hundreds of million to spend, a squad of top quality players to take over and immense support infrastructure. We have forgotten how to be ruthless and that complacency spreads throughout the team - the only team less appealing on the eye in the EPL is WBA and that is saying something.

Does anybody see a Jose team doing any different, he could have £1 billion to spend and we would be served the same rubbish, sure we'd pick up results, but when it matters we would fail, CL and League, nowhere near winning either of them. Our two supposed world class stars (Pogba/ Sanchez) look half the players they are consistently, the only ones that look half decent are not real gamechangers because they do precisely what the manager asks of them - he wants big robots. 1 good game counts for 5 bad games, it should be the other way around.

I'm sorry but Jose has had more than enough opportunities, we do not look like we are progressing compared to our direct rivals - despite the money and time being afforded. He has to go for the good of the club, players and the fans sanity!

16 Mar 2018 16:36:44
Are we guaranteed a trophy this year?
Should probably be doing better with the squad we have .
Lukaku been a good signing thank God we never signed moratta.

Jose doing what he does and what he wants .
People can post all they want Jose should do this or that .
But he will do it his way . The way he has done it all season that's his style not sure why people are kidding themselves.

16 Mar 2018 16:43:17
Ed004 its not about let's go sack another manager, mourinho long term is not a utd manager. His last stint at chelsea he tried playing decent football at times but once Tottenham smashed them he went in his shell like he always does, say next season he spends big money gets the side he wants but the moment things get tough he will go back to doing what he knows best and that is not the utd way.

We have a chance right now, get pochettino or jardim in summer and let them tweak the side they want as they will get a season to get their bearing with the side rather than wait for mourinho to implode which he will and then get someone who will be racing against time as the adidas top 4 clause will kick the season we aren't in CL, we can already see the signs with his constant targeting of the fans, pogba's recent performances.

You talk about injuries, guardiola has had no lb for the entire season, he seems to have managed pretty well hasn't he.

My biggest gripe with mourinho is he seems to value results over everything else. So why is it that when he gets criticized for not getting the perfect results he can't take the criticism, if your football is based only on results then your job review should also be based on the same. Last season he would have been sacked but for the Europa League, this season he has us in top 4 but after 300mn spent 16 points behind the leaders and a possible FA cup is not good enough especially when the football is so dire to watch.

{Ed004's Note - So being without Mendy is similar to having no Pogba or Bailly. Also Danilo as 30 mill pound cover isn't bad for a full back slot. Fergie also valued results over anything else in his last few seasons here. Forget how many games he ground out a win and it was classed as premiership winning experience. I just see no sense in sacking Jose who is on course to win 83/84 points (in a normal season that league winning form) because we dropped out of the champions league.}

16 Mar 2018 16:44:17
Martial Sanchez lukaku pogba matic Mata etc etc .
4 shots in 180 minutes minutes of football against Seville.
And it's the defence

Lindelof?
Bailly played young been playing well and ddg is the best gk in the world .

People talk about fellaini, Jose raves about him he has played 75 minutes of football since November. But straight back in to the starting 11 ahead of pogba and mc Tom.
Jose type player fellaini.

16 Mar 2018 16:47:21
Do you think he should be sacked jred. I dont.
Id like to give him the summer window for the board to back him and if we are as far behind next xmas as we are now then ill re consider my thoughts.

16 Mar 2018 16:50:26
Some of you are like the weather! After Chelsea and Liverpool the "Old Mourinho " was back. He's smiling again etc. One awful display and it's "get rid! " We are second. We would never had won the CL. We are 2- 3 players short of a good side. A very good side.

16 Mar 2018 17:23:51
Beast how can you say we aren't improving when compared to our direct rivals when we are currently ahead of 3 of the teams that were above us this time last year and we have gone out at the same stage of the competition in Europe as two of those same sides.

16 Mar 2018 16:46:34
Ed4
What do you think went wrong with Jose Chelsea team why couldn't he get the best out of hazard, Costa and co?

{Ed004's Note - He won the league with them players and then fell out with them and they downed tools... I don't think this current squad has downed tools for him.}

16 Mar 2018 17:15:03
Ed004 fergie had a great amount of goodwill to bank on jose doesn't.

We struggled without bailly because his other cb signing didn't work out and you are again barking up the wrong tree. The results are just the symptoms here not the disease. Had we lost to either of Chelsea or Liverpool the response from fans would have been the same.

We absolutely dominated Mourinho's madrid at OT until nani got sent off, what was that team - An injury prone rb and 3 has been defenders a 39 year old winger and tom cleverley and danny welbeck starting. You don't need an x player or a y player fit for the game to play good football you need a manager who allows that to play good football.

Until his football improves there is always going to be atleast a section of fans who want him gone, pogba being fit, bailly being fit are excuses only thing he requires is a change in his mentality and that is never going to happen.

{Ed004's Note - I thought Jose success or the fact we are in second ahead of teams that apparently have had better managers than us would have brought goodwill. I agree that a lot of this hostility is down to our current style of play. I just think hes doing the best he can with this group of players. I reckon arguments could be made about Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and City all having a better balance in their first 11's alongside far fewer significant injuries to contend with}

16 Mar 2018 17:47:52
City are getting even stronger, this CL run will strengthen them further. The way they play will entice players to sign for them over us. We are not progressing compared to City who I consider our direct rival.

As for CL teams, well all the ones left in it would give Sevilla a hiding. We are miles behind the big Spanish teams, Bayern and even PSG - we will never catch them with Jose in charge because his style is anti-football. He has to change his style and he won't.

That is why I can say we are not progressing compared with our direct rivals. Finishing 2nd to City I could stomach at the minute, but the manner of finishing 2nd is a disgrace. I would find it hard to celebrate winning the league playing this way, but not winning anything or looking close? Shame on us for tolerating it is all I can say.

As for the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool - I hardly think we are pulling up trees there, there is barely anything between us and next season they will all be a lot stronger, will we? The only way we will get better is by spending £250m to get £50m of value from it because of how corrupting the style is on class.

16 Mar 2018 17:39:41
Again ed004 injuries to players is an excuse, 180 mins vs sevilla 4 shots that's all he manages, Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Pogba are capable of more, same goes for the games against Liverpool away or City Home, the team we have can attack, mourinho doesn't allow it.

The other managers except guardiola don't get the money to spend that jose does.

{Ed004's Note - I've repeatedly said I can't and won't defend the Sevilla match. It was appalling and I've stated that I've no idea where we went wrong. It seems every decision made was the incorrect one. However, you go and mention two games vs top 6 why not look at them all in the bigger pitcher where we sit second in the mini top 6 table with only city ahead of us. Wenger has just spend over 100 million on two strikers that won't play together, Liverpool 75 million on a cb, only Spurs haven't had a massive outlet on players. Money in the sport has gone crazy. Psg spent over 200 million on a player yet will only win Ligue 1, Milan spent 200 mill in the summer, Barcleona have surely spent close to 300 mill since previous season and that doesn't include Griezman.}

16 Mar 2018 18:24:15
Ed004 the reason I mentioned the 4 games were in 2 of those we made no attempt to win while in the other 2 we only started to attack once we were losing.

The points the results are all relative, the fact that a utd Manager goes into multiple games in a season with a sole view of not losing is absolutely disgraceful.

As someone said earlier give him more money and we will be less rubbish at conceding goals our football won't improve. Most folk forget that the mourinho madrid team that scored those record breaking goals and points faced Barcelona and bayern and Dortmund when he was there, every time the tactics were same Stoke city football.

16 Mar 2018 19:24:16
Ken
I wouldn't sack him but I'm not going to make silly excuses for him .
A team with pogba and co should be playing better .
United will buy players every summer that football .
Watch that Seville game then come on her posting it's not Jose fault he needs better players?

16 Mar 2018 19:01:25
Ed004, nobody can guarantee us trophies, mate. The sooner people realise that the better. there's any number of young managers can give us a chance of doing it, other than the dinosaur currently in charge.

16 Mar 2018 12:26:54
I'd rather Liverpool went through than city and I think they might. Everything I dislike about city is for nearly all the same reasons I didn't like the Barcelona team when pep was there except for xavi and Iniesta. I'm going to have a shower when I get home now.

16 Mar 2018 12:39:53
No way. I would rather city went through than Liverpool. And I think Liverpool have a chance. But tbh in an ideal world neither would win it.

16 Mar 2018 12:51:09
Agree with supa, city have a manager and a team to win the cl, while Liverpool can be beaten by any of bayern madrid or Barca.

16 Mar 2018 13:26:30
I'd prefer city to win, Liverpool can't win another champions league ! If pep wins the champs league with city he may look to other challenges and move on.

16 Mar 2018 13:46:57
From a football point of view I would like to see city play a Munich or barce.

16 Mar 2018 14:15:19
City all day.

16 Mar 2018 14:17:05
Bayern look very good at the moment. What a turnaround by heyneckes who is a very good manager. Very underrated considering his achievements. Brilliantly run football club steeped with heritage and culture. A city Barcelona game for the neutrals would be an intriguing watch.

16 Mar 2018 14:54:27
Liverpool to win so City can come back to earth and then Liverpool will lose against the likes of Bayern, Real or Barca. To be fair either way none of Liverpool or Man City will win the champions league.

It is going to be one of Real, Barcelona or Bayern winning it.

16 Mar 2018 19:04:24
Id take the City way of playing every day of the week. It doesn't make anybody a bad Utd supporter just to say City are a great team.

16 Mar 2018
New image uploaded to the
Manchester United Player Sightings page entitled, Past Mourinho dropping some truth bombs on Present Mourinho

16 Mar 2018 08:04:54
Good morning. I'm still struggling to understand the thought process behind the tactics used on Tuesday night. I'm also really disappointed by Mourinho's comments post-match. I'd actually thought after the Palace fight back and the Liverpool display that we were in for a strong finish to the season and hopeful for next season. Shows you what I know. I thought his comments were pretty disrespectful and lacked class.
As I've mentioned class, I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are regarding Mourinho working as a pundit for Russia Today during the 2018 World Cup? I think it's an interesting comparison with Guardiola who is fined for showing his solidarity with the independence movement in Catalonia. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, I'd just like to know other posters thoughts on this as it provides, I think, an interesting perspective on two managers and their ideologies and morals.

16 Mar 2018 08:38:33
The display was so bad and the selection and tactics were even worse. But his post match comments were a disgrace and while I was never his biggest fan in the past, I am now even more determined to see this arrogant, useless idiot out of our club. I can't believe the management haven't reprimanded him. This was an insult to our club and to SAF who was at the match and is a million times the manager mourinho will ever be.
I'm telling you now that United will never win the league with him in charge and we'll never progress either. He's sold KDB and Salah in the past and has turned pogba and Sanchez into nothing. He's destroyed Martial and hererra. He keeps playing fellaini when it is clear to everyone that he's not suited and not good enough.
His tactics and team selections are a joke.
And finally, he's a miserable idiot who seems to think he is still top dog. Well, I can name a load of managers who will run rings round him.

16 Mar 2018 09:13:35
Most people go on about stability. Were not a sacking club. It hasn’t done Real Madrid or Chelsea any harm. Bollo*ks if he ain’t good enough get rid. The last 5 years have been an utter disgrace. Bored to tears with turgid dross.

16 Mar 2018 09:23:46
Based on your language, I think you are suggesting that one is right and the other is wrong. Here is my view, where I do the same, but the other way around.

The FA should stop being toothless. If Guardiola's actions are deemed punishable and he continues to do them, then they need to take real action. His current stance is, as I understand it, 'I know the FA think what I am doing is wrong. I'm going to continue to do it anyway, because I don't think it is' with the additional caveat of 'and there are no real repercussions that affect me, the team or that would cause my employer to intercede. ' I think his actions show a complete disregard for the FA, and as a result disrespect for English football - that being said I think the FA bring most of this upon themselves.

Regarding Mourinho's contract with Russia Today. There is no reason why any of us should have an issue with him acting as a pundit during the World Cup. At the time of him signing his contract British-Russian relations were better than they currently are, and presumably he now has contractual obligations.

If dealing with the Russians is deemed as morally reprehensible, then our national team shouldn't be attending at all and our weak FA should've made a stand about this. Whilst this does not relate directly to the decision our manager may make, it is probably reasonable to suggest that our decision making body should set the tone with international football relations. They obviously don't and will continue to be useless.

Jack.

16 Mar 2018 10:00:55
The thought process was to sit deep and let sevilla have the ball. Then when we won it dump it to fellani and have runners off him to pick up the balls.

John Beckesque.

16 Mar 2018 10:16:47
Jack B, I'm not suggesting either one is right or wrong. Mourinho is totally free to do what he wants with his time. I'm hoping it opens up a bit of debate on the subject of our manager. I'm using the Russia Today and Catalonia Independence as two contrasting aspects in two totally different, ideologically opposed managers. I think it's an intriguing juxtaposition. Regards Mourinho and Russia Today: I don't know exactly how long he is contracted to work on the World Cup but, I would of hoped that either:1/ he'd be working hard on how to sort out the mess he's made for himself and get the best out this team or 2/ taking a break with his family, reflecting and recharging and getting ready to go again. Taking up this pundit position smacks of grubby money making and a chance to indulge his ego. I'm sure Guardiola will be on our screens during the summer. It will be interesting if he is wearing a little ribbon on his lapel. I'd feel the same if it was the BBC or ITV. I used to watch RT a lot. It's incredibly biased and one sided. To be honest though, it's no worse than Fox News in its right wing agenda.
I'm just trying to make a comparison between our manager and his main rivals actions. I think it's interesting, says something about both of their mindsets and is worthy of debate. I'm interested in what other posters think and value everyone's opinion.
People say you should keep politics out of sport but it isn't, unfortunately, as it is a global, money making machine and is used, unfortunately, for political means by every country.

16 Mar 2018 10:37:02
I'm still in a state regarding Tuesday night's result and it isn't going away anytime soon. Regarding his contract with a Russian broadcaster, frankly I do not care, the contract was signed before any of the current events had happened and he's free to ho our that contract as far as I'm concerned. One contract I'd love him to renege on would be the one he recently signed to continue to be Manchester United manager. Jose normally gets a rough press when it comes to comments that he's made but when it comes to comments that actually besmirch the club that pays his wages then they are curiously silent, José should have been given a serious dressing down by the hierarchy over his Porto, Real Madrid comments. It is one thing to bore us to death with the kind of inertia football he espouses but it is another when he disrespects the club and fans when doing so, José out!

16 Mar 2018 11:12:43
His post match comments I thought were far worse than the performance. Every manager gets their tactics wrong occasionally, and every team has a bad day at the office now and again.

So I could forgive that in isolation, however, those tactics and those kind of performances happen far too often.

But to come out when the fans are hurting after elimination from a major tournament and remind them of past eliminations and to insinuate that we got knocked out because of the mentality of the club and not Jose's failing was out of line.

It is that more than the defeat that will turn fans against him.

As for going to Russia for the world cup? I would kind of expect it from a club manager, a chance to watch other teams, other tactics and watch players the club maybe scouting in the flesh in a different team and how they adapt to that. I think that is vital for a top level club manager. I don't think politics should come into it.

16 Mar 2018 12:05:19
I don't no what he was thinking with his comments . Normally pretty good with the press but dropped the ball on this.

16 Mar 2018 14:13:25
Maybe we misinterpreted his comments, what he was trying to point out was his hat-trick of knocking United out of the UCL.