Manchester United Banter Archive September 16 2012

 

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16 Sep 2012 20:52:32
Regarding some of the recent posts about our new left back, I agree he looks like a promising addition to the team, but just a wee word on Evra. I've often criticised the unseemly, almost indecent, desire of some on here to see the guy shoo'ed out of the club as quickly as possible.

I'm certainly not defending his general standard of play the last few seasons, though I think he's suffered by having to play every game week in week out and a lack of competition. And I know emotional attachment to the guy for his commitment to the Utd cause is not enough to guarantee a place in the team.

I would just like to see a bit of appreciation for his contribution over the years, and a desire to see him leave eventually with a bit of dignity and our full support and best wishes, rather than this, 'oh, he's lost it, I can't wait for him to be replaced' attitude, prevalent on this site.

My son plays left back for Ballymena Utd U11s, and Evra was always the name on his shirt (though Kagawa is the main man now - same good attitude tho) because even a 10 year old can see what a Utd man he is, through and through - give the guy some respect in the twilight of his career.

ps. just for Wayne's friends - I'd take 11 Evra's over 11 Rooneys every day of the week ;-)


StevieK

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Ye i agree yes his form has dipped in the last 18 months but if u see who has played most in the last 5/6 years from all the players its evra, hes a little burnt out other players in the squad were rotated and rested. evra never got injured and played up to 60 games a season while the other side of defence had Gnev,brown,oshea,raf,smalling and even valencia in the last few years. i dnt knw why ppl want him sold, i want him replaced but what team in the world wudnt want there 2nd choice lb to be patrice evra?

sulei

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I'm not taking the bait sorry Stevie... Nice try though

Darren-Bermuda

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The united medical team have said evra has played to much football over the past 3/4 years and that he could do with a break.
these days players are fully assessed fitness speed etc so im sure they would know if "his legs had gone"

i would suggest that fergy and co know more about the evra situation than some on this site ,
it would seem to me that fabio was injured to much to give evra a break so butts was brought in.
it looks like instead of just selling evra fergy feels that with some one to share the work load evras form could pick up.
jred

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StevieK

There is something in your post that i agree with and something that i dont. The last time we had a "Rooney" discussion i had clearly told that all the piss remarks against Evra were poor. He deserves respect and there is no 2 ways about that. If he has to be replaced, he has to but this disgusting attitude of "Finally he is gone for good" and stuff is unfair.

Coming to your Post Script - This is where my friend i have to disagree. I would take 6 Waynes and 5 Evras in my team :) . Whatever your opinion may be about Wayne's contract drama that unfolded, you can't deny that on the pitch he is every bit passionate and up for the cause as Evra is. If you can't forget what happened, thats alright, your opinion. But for me the people who call for Wayne's head are no different from the people who have no respect for Pat.

Deeps...

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Jred, Evra's legs have gone just like Ferdinand's, Scholes' and Giggs' legs have gone. The difference is they have adapted their game to deal with this whereas Evra has not adapted his game. Whether it's the club's fault for overplaying him or whether it's due to his age or a mixture of the two, his legs have gone and if you cannot see that then you are blind. he hasn't been the same since early 2010.

It's not offensive to the player to say his legs have gone, the manager said the same about Ferdinand last season. The difference is Ferdinand being a central defender doesn't have to do as much running as a fullback like Ev, therefore it wouldn't effect his game as much. Evra relies and pace and constantly getting up and down the field, if he can no longer keep up so to speak, then he is no longer good enough to do his job.

Sydney!

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StevieK, I do not agree with bad mouthing Evra as he has been a good servant for the club, but when you are no longer up to the job you should be replaced. Saying someone's legs have gone is not an insult, it happens to everyone at some stage of their career. Between 2007-2010 I would give Evra 9/10, for those three years I would say he was better than Irwin, but since 2010 he is probably 5/10 or less and that has let him down. Irwin was IMO an 8/10 consistently throughout 11 of his 12 years at this club. This IMO makes him an overall better player than Ev due to his consistency.

As for contract negotiating, Evra too has used tactics to get a better deal, he didn't air them in public as much, but he did tell the club that he wanted to join Inter Milan and that made the club cough up much more cash to keep him. So he isn't as squeaky clean as you may think mate.

Sydney!

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Darren, I don't know what you're talking about, honestly :)

Deeps - was referring to their respective attitudes rather than on the pitch performances mate. my point was I would take 11 guys who respect the club and its fans, and who are prepared to stick around when things aren't so good, rather than 11.......well, 11 Rooneys :) but we'll not go there again!


StevieK

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Sydney!

Mate, my gripe isn't about his current ability. if he can't hack it anymore, then fair play, he'll have to be replaced. i said emotional attachment isn't enough to warrant any player keeping their place.

My disgust is aimed at those who are dancing on his grave already and making derogatory comments about his current ability. A guy who's given so much to this club deserves much better than 'please God get Evra replaced soon' and 'he's cap - get rid of him now' not exact quotes, but symptomatic of quite a few posts I've seen on here in the last few months.

StevieK

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Syd
then what is your explanation for evra still being at the club,
do you not think fergy and co feel he can regain his form,in fact fergy himself has said he thinks he just needs a break.
also you say his legs have gone but to me honest evra has still got a yard of pace for me his biggest problem seems to be positional play desire and confidence.

if evra had shown in his speed agility and stamina test that "his legs had gone" i would suggest that fergy and co would of know that there was little chance of evra rediscovering his form and therefore would of replaced him.
the fact that fergy gave evra all of last season and it seems this season to rediscover his form would suggest that physically he is still up to it.


now im sure you know better but you've been wrong about evra before so just think before you type pal
jred

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Syd
also i think giggs is a good example, giggs especially still looks a fit lad, not as quick as he was but still covers the ground and fergy said last week he could still play for another 2 years.
you wouldnt expect him to play 40 + games a season like evra has had to tho

if you look a g neville in his last season , now his legs had gone.
jred

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Evra's legs have not completely gone like Neville in his last year. But he has been unable to adapt to his loss of pace. He isn't as quick as he used to be and that is perfectly understandable considering his age. The difference is that Evra still plays as if he was in his mid-twenties, and that's why he is often caught up the field when the opposition breaks.

The other problem is that he is no longer capable of recovering when someone takes it round him. He has never been the best tackler in the world but now when he misses a tackle he has no chance of getting back into a defensive position.

There is a major lack of quality lbs that we could buy at the moment, this is why we bought Buttner as competition rather than a replacement for Evra. Whether Evra will perform better with more rests is up to debate, personally I think his problems are rooted in a lack of tactical awareness that have becoming more and more prenounced as he has gotten older. He may be a loyal player but two years of below par performances are enough for anyone to question his ability to play at the top level.

Danny Pughnited

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I think most of us are violently agreeing. Evra is past his best, it's time for fresher legs...but as other posters have pointed out, a bit of respect wouldn't go amiss.

AJH

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Spot on Danny, like I have said in previous posts it's much harder for a fullback to adapt once he's lost his pace. Ferdinand as a CB can position himself better due to loss of pace, but a fullback who gets forward must always get back, he doesn't get back and when forward he isn't great so it's no surprise that the manager wanted Baines in the summer, like you said there is not many around and Everton knew that. This is why Everton priced him out of a move. I think City getting Rodwell left us in the sh1t in terms of bargaining. Once they had that money for the banks we didn't stand a chance. Even Baines was surprised we never made an official bid for him after chats with his agent.

Jred, in the summer of 2011 I believe the manager didn't go through with the signing of Izaguirre because he thought Ev just needed a good rest after the WC in 2010. Well that wasn't the case as even with a massive rest he has still been the same. This summer the manager wanted Baines and IMO Baines would have been a good buy, but well overpriced. So I think the manager's second option was to buy a working progress to give Ev a rest. Buttner is raw, but is physically ready and experienced enough to come straight into the side. I knew Brady was not a LB and that the manager never really seen him as a LB, just a stand in for the tour and Blackett was not ready. I think Willems was judged not ready after the WC performances and that's why Buttner was signed. So I think the manager has seen Ev's poor performances just like the rest of us and has acted best he could. Ev himself has said he has been well below par for the past two seasons. I just think the manager has hoped his mojo would return, I think he has stuck with him for that reason and due to lack of decent replacements available to replace him.

Sydney!

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I always thought an understudy or competition for evra someone like buts was more likely than a replacement. I think evras issue is loss of form rather than his legs have gone I don't think fergy would expect him to find his mojo if his legs have gone. Fergy has said evra has had to play to much football over the last couple of years, so I think a player like buts makes more sense than baines at the moment but evra will have to improve this season or he may well be out in the summer. Jred

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16 Sep 2012 20:20:47
After the ridiculous chants by a few people yesterday did anyone else here the rest chanting you will never walk alone?

Caolán.

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It's not actually 'You'll Never Walk Alone'. It's 'You'll Never Get A Job' that United sing.

G.A.G.U.S

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That is way our ground is quiet at times
Cause the day trippers don't know the songs!!!!

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16 Sep 2012 18:36:59
If peeps are a little bored and have twenty minutes at their disposal check out the Swiss Ramble website, the latest article is a lengthy one on the FFP rulings and there is plenty of other data and figures to check out. For the lads who want to know where we will stand when or if the rulings are implemented and how much we earn, or how much the other clubs earn, how much we pay out for things, it's all in there.

So just visit the Swiss Ramble blog and check out the article titled "UEFA's FFP regulations".

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - it takes longer than 20 min to read each post! They are excellent though, I can highly recommend his blog to any football fan, no matter what team, who wants a more in-depth look at the game.}

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Ah but Ed Sydney! is a super fast reader, its his mutant power.

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Ed001, Swiss Ramble and Andy Green are both very good at what they do. They often use each other to get the correct figures. The reason I posted this was so it would take a lot of pressure off of Ed002. When he gets asked a question he can just leave a link for the poster to read. Obviously he should read through it himself first to make sure he agrees with it all.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I doubt if she has time to read the work of mere mortals to be honest Syd.}

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Ed001, I think even Ed002 would enjoy Swiss Ramble's posts and if he notices a mistake or thinks something should be added then he can leave a comment. Andy Green and Swiss know what they are talking about, one of my pet hates is so called SSN financial experts talking out of their arses.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - don't get me started on sly and their 'expert' pundits, none of them are in any way experts! The main thing you have to remember with these blogs, is that they have personal bias, like we all do. So be careful of taking everything as gospel, a lot of it they will look to find the bright side, when they support the team. That's not a criticism of them, just something to bear in mind while reading their blogs.}

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Ed001, the problem is with Andy Green is that he is so against the Glazers, the bias isn't for United, if anything it would be against. Swiss Ramble is an Arsenal fan and when discussing Arsenal he is very honest. They have good debt, affordable debt, but he is honest that they cannot afford players most fans would want. To be fair both AG and SR are very neutral and even Liverpool fans will back that up as his post on Liverpool was spot on.

Sydney! {Ed001's Note - I would disagree, most fans have no idea about financial issues so would not be worth even considering their opinions to be fair.}

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16 Sep 2012 18:17:53
Anyone know if Pogba got a game today
Superdecs x

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Subs bench, didn't come on.

Slysports football app.

DodgyBanter....erm.... (x)

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Don't care.

RedDevil19

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Frankly, who cares

AJH

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Does anyone care??
HERBIE

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I care

Paul Pogba

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16 Sep 2012 17:56:10
Could anyone give me any information on parreria? How likely is he to succeed here I haven't seen him play. Also would just like to say r.i.p Nevin spence.

Caolán.

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Yes RIP Spence family, couldn't believe that when I read it today, sounds awfull. Thoughts to the family.

DodgyBanter

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My brother knew Nevin because he played rugby with him and said you could never meet a nicer person it's a great shame.

Caolán.

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He was described as the "Best in the World at his age group" a while back...but we all know what that can mean these days.

MPez

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16 Sep 2012 17:46:04
I hear rumours people think we should offload Carrick ? You surely don't know football if you don't recognise he is a key player if we want to challenge for trophies . Yes he can go missing in a few games here or there but he helps maintain the tempo between defence and attack . Even if he does like to play crab football 90% of the time he keeps the ball and let's others move forward , if there is a gap he will take it but that's not his role . He sits and that's something that helps you control games. For any of you who want to disagree cause you think you know better. Have a look who we brought in after Chelsea's back to back titles and who played virtually every game for the next 3 seasons. There's only one player who did that and that's Carrick and the success speaks for itself. SHANDY !

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I think most players could do the carrick role but also add some good defending to their game and quicker passin, dont let stats confuse you

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So your saying the reason we won the league and champions league is down to carrick ?

dio

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No dio he is saying Carrick made a big difference to the side.

-JakeW

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Well I duno if it is just me but I have an always will think he is garbage he wouldn't get into any top teams across europ my opinion u may feel diffrent

Dio

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I would say Carrick is one of the better signings Utd made... It is a great footballer
I know many would disagree, but watch how Utd plays if Carrick is not available for few games.... That's how important he is to us

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Carrick slows United down....95% of the time its sideways or backwards. He is sitting in front of the back 4 and can't tackle. Even against Wigan who did not attack he looked piss poor

Bullseye50

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16 Sep 2012 17:43:39
Good second half performance from the lads yesterday and particularly good to see an improvement in Hernandez who I have rightly slated in the past,although the pen was shocking and i'm not bothered if it should have or shouldn't have been a pen,you put it in the net and let people argue about it later.
Feel confident going to Anfield although they will lift their game against us,they always do.
Just a quick mention for Berba,great to see him playing,scoring and with a smile on his face.
His first goal was true class,would still have him rather than Welbeck or Macheda but good luck to the guy at Fulham,he looks the main man there and I think he likes that,gives him confidence,similar to when Tevez went to City,big fish in a little pond.

Red Daz

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I cannot agree more

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16 Sep 2012 17:01:16
Do you see Ronaldo getting any happier at Madrid the way that they are going? They have been useless this season. If there is a possibility of resigning him then I really do feel as though this is the time do so. Also just want to say that Cleverly and the cameo from Powell bode well for the future, they really could make up our midfield for the next few years to come.

RedDevil19

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RD19 - Ronaldo WILL NEVER return in a playing capacity.

As for Cleverley and Powell, well I can't wait for the next generation to come in.

________________DDG_______________
__________Jones______Smalling________
Rafael_________Tunners_______Buttner
_________Cleverley___Powell________
_______________Kagawa___________
_________Keane__Henriquez_________

Not to mention having a bench of players like Petrucci, Danny Welbeck, an aging Toni, Rooney & RVP, etc.

It does look so good right now!

The Moon.

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Ah c'mon now people, give over about the Ronaldo thing for gods sake. We can't afford to either buy him or pay his wages nevermind both! There comes a point when all this hearsay BS has to stop and for people to start being realistic.

Flimbo

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We don't have the money for Ronaldo unless something changes. Even if we could find the cash to buy him, I suspect his wage expectations would be off the scale. Time to move on.

AJH

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Whos gonna win the ball?
CardiffRED

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1. How would we afford him? No way Madrid is going to sell a player in their peak, with his goal scoring record for less than they paid for him.

2. How would we afford his wage demands? Sure Ronaldo has a lot of time for the club, but him and his advisors know his worth and also what certain other clubs would be prepared to offer. Also the Glazers are a bit tight on wages and seem to be pushing basic salaries down and sticking a lot on perofrmance enhanced bonuses.

3. Where exactly would he fit into the side? I doubt he'd want to go back to playing wide after 4 seasons at Madrid banging them in for fun. So its upfront, so means having to rotate RvP or Rooney around Ronaldo or sell one of them and stunts the development of Welbeck, Hernandez, Henriquez, Will Keane.

I just don't see us going for a striker when we need other areas tweaking first. i still see us in the market for a strong centrehalf as Vidic's longterm replacement and a box to box midfielder to complement Cleverley/ Powell. And a proper left winger to replace Nani/ Young.

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It is not about having the cash, it's about willingness to spend it. United can afford him, but wouldn't do it and I do not blame them in the slightest.

Sydney!

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Moon :
Petrucci is a much better player than Powell ( atm at least ) and my personal opinion is if he keeps improving he will take cleverley s place.
Mick

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I'd rather Mesut Ozil than Ronaldo! No Doubt!


Red Samurai

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16 Sep 2012 16:52:22
I posted this team on another post, but this would be my team for Liverpool this time next week...

-----------Lindegaard--------------

Rafael-Ferdinand-Vidic/Evans-Buttner

-------------Carrick----------------
-------Cleverley--Anderson---------

Valencia-------RVP----------Kagawa

Vidic has had a shaky start to the season and thats why against a quick nimble forward like Suarez might see Evans get the nod ahead of Vidic. Buttner is surely a must after his performance yesterday and Evra/Suarez situation. And Cleverley/Anderson will provide energy in the midfield as well as quality on the ball.

RedKnight

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People on here need to drop the Ando nonsense,has done nothing for us in 5years and never will,has 1 good game a season and people on here saying it will be his year.

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IMO I think we'll see this...

-----------De Gea-----------
Rafael-Ferdinand-Vidic-Buttner
-------Cleverly-Carrick------
Valencia---Kagawa---Welbeck
------------RVP-------------

I can't see Nani getting a start and quite frankly, he doesn't deserve one. Welbeck performed well on the left against Wigan, lots of energy which we will need against Liverpool. De Gea should be given the nod, he has more experience with big games than Lindegaard. I think if the game goes well, we'll see Powell and Anderson making an appearance and maybe Nani as well.

Andy!

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If you think Fergy will drop Vidic because we're playing Suarez (spit spit) then you're deluded! You don't drop your best defender because you're worried about that person... Vidic plays, Evans has a chance of playing next to him.

DodgyBanter

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Hopefully rooney gets back and i'd start him on the left, just like in 08

__________De gea____
rafael__vidic__ferdinand_buttner
carrick_scholes
Kagawa
valencia RVP rooney


TRUMORS

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Obviously not watched the first three games then DodgyBanter... he has not looked himself and been bullied on two occasions against hardly world class players (Fellani, Lambert) Seems to have shied away from marking these men leaving Fellani to carrick for the corner, stupid I think so

RedKnight

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He needs games RedKnight, and thanks to Carrol moving down to London Liverpool don't have an attacking aerial threat. (would have been embarrassing watching Carrol destroy us after all the stick we've given Blair and co over him!)

I also think he is playing ok, holding his own if not being stunning. Can't imagine Ferdy and Evans being better than Vidic + 1. Guess it's all a matter of opinion though ;)

DodgyBanter

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16 Sep 2012 16:48:56
who's the best top 5 young upcoming talents in the world?i mean to ask the players who may get near or emulate the likes of cr7,messi,iniesta etc?
have your say!! {Ed004's Note - Rafael, jones, Cleverley, powell and Scholes..... I would say gotze, hazard, kagawa, Tello and isco}

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Hazard, Gotze, Kagawa, Neymar and Rodriguez from porto.

-JakeW {Ed004's Note - Forgot Neymar replace isco}

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The top 5?

GK: Thibaut Courtois.
DF: Varane
MF Wilshere, Gotze
ST: Neymar

The keeper seems to be brilliant, Athletico didn't miss DDG last year because of him and he does seem like a young Cech.

Varane is by far the best young CB on the planet. I'm so gutted we missed out on him last year.

Wilshere, Gotze & Neymar really don't need justifying.

The Moon.

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Muniain, Goetze, Iturbe, Rodriguez and Moura.

G.A.G.U.S

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Tello? I wouldn't have thought he'd be rated so highly. Hazard, Neymar, Gotze, Kagawa, Daehli.

Percy

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I'd say Neymar, Ocampos, Gotze, Rodriguez and Powell/ Henriquez.

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Only Neymar has the potential to be as good as Ronaldo or Messi, but I doubt he will quite get there. Goetze, Moura, Rodriguez & Hazard.

Moon, Wilshere most certainly needs justifying.

Sydney!

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Moon, concerned by Wilshire's injury ravaged seasons? Or do you think he'll come back and re-capture his brilliance?

DodgyBanter

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I rate De Gea higher than Courtois.

G.A.G.U.S

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Thibaut coutious
ogbonna
varane
wilshere
gotze
tello
cuenca
neymar
erikson
isco
iturbe
rodriguez
ox
willems
pogba

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Granit Xhaka, Toni Kroos, Christian Eriksen, James Rodriquez and Mario Goetze

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G.A.G.U.S and Sydney do you guy's just sit and watch clips on Moura from youtube? he runs runs runs does a bit of skill then loses the ball he is not one of the best young talents in the world hence the reason he does not make the Brazil team,The lad Oscar that chelsea signed has far more potential then him.

MANRED

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16 Sep 2012 16:01:11
Right lads, were do you see united being in 5-10 years time
Will we still be top dogs?

Will we have a new stadium or increased capacity at OT

How many leagues and champions leagues will we have

Of the young players now, who do u think is most likely to be big players for us by this time?

Cheers


Danny97

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1) I'm sure that the stadium will be made larger, there's one whole stand that can be developed as soon as local politics is sorted out it can be done.

2) Within 10 years I expect that we will have over taken Liverpool in terms of Champions League wins and will have around 25 League titles.

3) In terms of youth, Rafael, De Gea, Fabio, Buttner, Powell, Cleverly, Will Keane, Henriquez, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling will all be key figures for the future. I also think we may see Liam Moore and Ross Barkley come in.

4) Pep Guardiola will be manager for a good few years I feel. If not Guardiola then Mourinho, however I can see us getting Guardiola and Mourinho back at Chelsea.

RedDevil19

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We will be top dogs
New owners
Old Trafford will be extended to 100,000
We will win leauge at least 4 times and cl at least 2 times.

Caolán.

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About the stadium being expanded, how possible is it with train line and is it possible to raise the roof higher at OT so its a more open stadium?

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Jose Mourinho will have been manager for 5 years winning 3 or 4 league titles and 2 Champions Leagues before handing over the OGS who wins 2 league titles and 1 champions league in 5 years befire starting a rebuilding process.

OT will be expanded to 95,000 and all the land around the stadium will be developed in corporate and entertainment facilities with hotel.

The Glazers will still be here but the debt should be substanially reduced by then and they will be looking to sell.

Powell, Henriquez, Blackett, Lingard and Cole will be the core of the team with Tunnicliffe and the Keane's in the squad.

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Sydney will still be on here, into his fourth marriage.

RFT/I AM KLOOT will have changed his name to JERUSALEM PIGMYS.

RD19 will break through the 1 Billion mark for teams/formations posted on here.

Utd will still not have bought a midfielder.

Gan will be interpreting and posting the thoughts of a dyslexic toadstool with a penchant for slating sc0users.

Anderson will have a good season, for Preston.

DodgyBanter

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Go down, not up.

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16 Sep 2012 15:51:43
looking ahead to the Liverpool game next week, and after an impressive performance from Buttner I would not be surprised if he did start against Liverpool to match Sterlings pace as at the minute, he is Liverpools stand-out player.

Another reason for leaving Evra out is, if you remember a couple seasons ago Fergie left Rooney out of the Everton game to keep him away from what would have been a horrible reception for the player, with the Evra/Suarez altercation I would not be surprised to see Buttner for this reason alone

RedKnight

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When does Fergie do the predictable?

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16 Sep 2012 14:55:34
You boys must be relishing next weeks encounter! You could not be playing Liverpool at a better time. New manager, new way of playing, no forwards and very little confidence! Compare that to Utd's riches! It should be a walk in the park for Utd!

The Irish Rover

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Excuses, and so soon?

Truth is, even if you were in the Championship (which could be soon) you would give us a tough game, form goes out of the window in games like this.

Leeds beat us at OT when they were in Div 1 a few years ago.

Sydney!

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Never a walk in the park when these 2 teams play each other, ask City if it was easy playing at Pool.

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2bh i would expect Liverpool to come away with a win under these circumstances than any other.

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Rover good to see you its been too long but your pathetic attempt at mind games won't work. Hope your wife still makes a good breakfast and the kids still look like me. I AM KLOOT

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Thank God you don't have Andy Carroll to bang them in for you. Him and Suarez are so prolific...

Whistler.

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I literally lol'd at KLOOTS comment

Dylan

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I AM KLOOT - genius comeback. Man of my own heart with a response like that.

Moog

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Quality reply Kloot! I will pass on your regards to the wife and kids.

The Irish Rover

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16 Sep 2012 14:43:21
Just want to say that you will always get that 1% of idiocy at any club that think its appropriate to chant about other peoples tragedies. The 99% of you lost have been magnificent, not just now but last season aswel when the minutes silence was observed beautifully for the 96. I just wanted to come on here and say that being a Liverpool fan ,as i know the majority of United supporters have put rivalries to one side. Thank You.

Also, can i just say that im gutted we didn.t get Powell. Looks like he will be a top top player. I'm hoping Evra starts next week so Sterling can rip him to pieces!

Sam Adzii jft96

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Tony Hibbert ripped Evra to pieces.

Sydney!

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Hibbert is quality syd. Was hilarious when he scored in his testimonial and the fans invaded the pitch.

Philiphs93

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16 Sep 2012 13:48:37
Just for the hell of it, this is the team that I believe will play Liverpool;

___________________DDG________________
Rafael______Ferdinand___Vidic_________Evra
Valencia__Cleverley__Carrick__Kagawa__Nani_
________________Van Persie______________

I think we'll play it really safe and look to win the game on the counter.

The Moon.

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-----------Lindegaard--------------
Rafael-Ferdinand-Vidic/Evans-Buttner

-------------Carrick----------------
------Cleverley---Anderson---------

Valencia-------RVP----------Kagawa

RedKnight {Ed004's Note - I would play this team.}

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________Lindegaard
Rafa___Ferdy___Vidic___Butt
___Clevers_Carrick_Giggsy
Valencia___V.Persie___Welbeck

I think we will keep it tight and then finish them off with three of Scholes, Kagawa, Nani, Rooney, Young & Hernandez.

Sydney!

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16 Sep 2012 13:33:25
Buttner is rash and raw but is evras kick up the ass and also cover to rest him! 2 years until buttner will be first choice!

Anderson! you all argue that hes crap , hes good, but when he doesnt play you can see we miss energy , when hes match fit for 90 mins he helps us a whole lot!

Big V

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Evra is out of contract next summer. Do you seriously believe Evra will get an extension?

Sydney!

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Not a chance. Fabio and buttner will fight for the lb spot. Big thank and goodbye to little pat.

Joe.a

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No he isn't Syd. He signed a two-year extension until 2014 in 2010. Haven't checked up on that but if my memory serves right then that's the case! Therefore next summer he is extremely likely to be sold, as you've said.

Fred

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Fred, you are right mate, it is 2014. I genuinely thought it was 2013 and have done for sometime now. I am even more convinced that he will be sold next summer now we will get a few million for him.

Sydney!

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16 Sep 2012 13:07:10
If I was SAF, i would be telling Nani to prove to everyone why he thought he should be Ballon D'Or winner. It's no good having him in the squad if he knows he is surplus or unwanted, and what players like Nani thrive off is confidence and praise from the manager. Just my thoughts, because I know as we saw the season before last that Nani can be a quality player, and if he was to regain that form then he would be invaluable to us.

P.S I'm not saying he is anywhere near worthy of the Ballon D'Or, just stating that it was a goal for the player 18 months ago.

MelonRed

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So melonred youre tryin to tell the greatest man manager in the history of the game how to man manage a player. Utter tripe.

GALWAY RED

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I was in no way criticizing the manager? I was pointing out that that's what I would do and is what I think would be good for Nani, and therefore the team.

Note that in this post I 7 times, denoting it is MY opinion,which is what we are here for, as it is a RUMOUR SITE. Get a grip.

MelonRed

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16 Sep 2012 13:03:04
Fellaini isn't good enough for united.. He lacks class, flair.. All he has is a big frame.. We might aswell sign crouch.... United don't need any CM we have enough... ReD D3vILiSH

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On one hand he is not good enough for us, but on the other hand signing him means he wont play against us, and for that reson alone i wouldnt mind signing him.

Mick

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16 Sep 2012 12:51:52
this may seem weird but I think evra will start ahead of buttner vs 'pool. evra has the experience, so maybe bring buttner on second half against stirling?
nov00

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Maybe with all the hillsborough stuff fergie wont wna play evra to respark all last seasons escapades and get the fans all fiery incase anything goes too far, however that said winning the match wil be his first priority so im sure he will do what he thinks best in terms of football tactics

1991devil

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Sterling would murder Evra which is one of the reasons why Buttner will play. The other reason is a little more obvious IMO.

Sydney!

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I have to disagree, I'd be amazed of SAF always Buttner against Lverpool. He may well replace Evra long term but in such a big game...

AJH

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16 Sep 2012 12:44:43
Martinez seems to have conveniently forgotten about the late studs up challenge halfway up Nani's leg.

DodgyBanter

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16 Sep 2012 11:55:48
(banter please ed)

anyone else think a 3412 formation would benefit us the most?

___________de gea____________
_____snalling_vidic_ferdinand_____
valencia_carrick__scholes__buttner
___________kagawa____________
_______rooney___Vpersie________

with valencia and buttner both being good going forward and at defending why not use them as wingbacks, so when defending it would be 5 at the back.

JK92

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--------------DDG----------------
--------Ferdy------Vidic----------
Valencia-----Carrick-------Buttner
-------Clevers------Scholes-------
-------------Kagawa--------------
------V.Persie-------Rooney-------
----------------------------------

The midfield diamond for me.

Sydney!

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I think 3 CBs would limit us, we'd be better off playing a 433 or 4231 in my opinion.

Percy

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I think formations on paper is a waste of time. When carrick plays we almost have a central 3 as it is with carrick infront.
Our fullbacks have always had license to roam at the right moments aswell. We only have 2 up top at least when we are chasing a game.

Supasub

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I see Jones as the key man:

------------------DDG-----------------
-----------Smalling---Vidic-------------
Valencia/Rafael---Jones-----Buttner/Evra
----------Carrick-----Cleverley----------
----------------Kagawa-----------------
------------Rooney---v.Persie-----------

M.D.

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I agree, I can see jones becoming either a sweeper or a marauding midfielder à la gerrard or Bryan robson

Philiphs93

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16 Sep 2012 11:47:07
hi guys,awesome second half.now i know we have a good squad we will only get better;)i'm looking towards the next match now against galatasaray we need 2 beat them atleast 3-0 or more then we will see if we are on right or wrong track(sorry spelling) and 4 those u where asking about a link 2 watch the game try firstrow sports or just firstrow zee:)the red devils army(general zee)haha;)man,i love this site and can someone please tell if this site is open 24-7 or does the edds never leave from this site,love your work edds thank u 4 given us(me)the best site in the hole world cheers guys and edds:) {Ed004's Note - It is open 24/7}

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Thanks ed004:)zee

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16 Sep 2012 11:38:07
first off i want to say that giggs was an amazing winger in his prime. But he is an average centre mid. I don't see what he offers in centre mid. When people talk about players blocking the youth giggs is the main example. I think he should seriously consider his future. By all means keep his experience in the dressing room, give him mike phelan's job. But he really should make this his last season now its getting silly.

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... Sorry, posted by accident...

... Tunners or Brady etc in at the deep end to give them a run.

I think this is what led to Pogba going, but hope that Park and Owen going may open up some bench spots through the season.

Giggs and to a lesser extent Scholes, should be used sparingly through the season, and mainly from the bench... But some weeks they should be rested from the bench also to give others a shot.

DodgyBanter

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I agree with what you are saying, but when players are injured and we need someone who can get the job done while they recover Giggs becomes a handy player to have as a back up. I hope he retires this season and helps out with the club in different departments, Scholes on the over hand I want him to stay for another season after this one until Powell and Cleverly improve more!

-JakeW

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16 Sep 2012 11:33:00
Everyone will like here!Good idea!

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16 Sep 2012 11:30:16
SAF asked the fans to cut out the chants about tragedies yet yesterday, some fans at OT ignored him. So how do we get people to grow up and stop it?

AJH

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Re stoping the chants - Firstly who is drawing the line where banter / chants become abuse`? seems to be some serious freedom of speech issues, quickly come into play - But this will carry on as long as the fans who stand along side the persons put up with it.

Years ago I heard the great Billy Connolly tell a joke about a guy who goes into the "wrong end" at an old firm game - worth digging out if you can find it on the web - I think the punch line was - on being asked whether the sort of aggro would ever end he replied
"not until they stop rubbishting in our shoes and we stop pissing in their beer"

Mike

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Get liverpool fans to tell them that they like the chants.

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Like I already said, that 1% will never stop, and will have a negative effect on the other 99%.

MPez

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Who ignored it? The always the victim chant is about Suarez and always has been. The press are trying their best to stir up trouble before next week, don't let them

GDS

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If as many as possible dont join in then the ones who start the chants will look like the a**holes but theres always persons that join in. hopefully there will be a more serious vibe about it at anfield though and the travellin fans will be our more respectful intelligent supporters.

1991devil

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I was ot yesterday and there was no 'sick' chants, there were chants directed at suarez and the media have villified us for daring to speak out against liverpool in a week where emotions are running high, utd fans will not be told by anyone what we can and cant sing and that includes saf

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To the bloke who said 1% will never stop, it was more than 1% it was 3 quarters of the stretty end mate thtas about 20 thousand people, the chants will never ever stop, we have to put up wiv munich chants every single away game we go to, its not just liverpool, its leeds, citeh, arsenal, chelsea, stoke even bolton were chanting munich stuff last season. its just the way it is unfortunatly

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To mike what does rubbishting mean

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I am sure you are aware that the word (Connolly's - not mine) wrote was not "rubbishting" - however if you remove the first 4 letters and rearrange the others I am sure you will get the point.

Mike

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To GDS - good point - the press have gone very anti- united (I think they feel that SAF should kiss their a**e ) the report on yesterdays game in the Failograph was half about Welbeck and very little about a great game or anything else.

They miss that many United supporters (as other teams supporters ) have been very supporting of the LFC fans campaign for justice - which given that the general press has hardly got behind or investigated properly (which if they had LFC fans would not have had to wait 23 years)- which is also surprising given the pious handringing that every paper came out with.

Mike

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16 Sep 2012 11:27:46
Final word form me on the Evra debate. I wasn't ignoring his loss of form over recent seasons and absolutely accept we need to replace him. I was trying to point out that after 1 good game from Buttner, many posters were dumping on him...which felt a bit harsh. Perhaps I'm too sensitive. :-/

AJH

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I don't think it was a dig at Evra, I think fans were just happy to see a left back defending well. Something we haven't seen for sometime now. Hopefully Buttner can keep it up and polish of his rough edges at the same time. But I have to say that even a raw Buttner was better than an Evra of the past two and a half years.

Sydney!

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Evra will benefit from competition and fewer games... He's played far too many games in the last few seasons... I would guess more than any other Utd player?

DodgyBanter

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16 Sep 2012 11:05:47
Well, a job weldone yesterday. And I am delighted that we could rest Kagawa and RVP as it wasn't worth taking the risk on their fitness. We have a much deeper squad than last season which should see us come good in all competitions as instead of playing inexperience garbage like Obertan, Diouf etc, we can play Hernandez, Welbeck, Buttner etc. Its noticeable that everyone this year has a role to play in the squad, some larger than other, but there are very few players that just aren't part of the squad. I'd say that Anderson and Macheda are probably the only expendable players that we currently have. Overall, happy with the way that the season is going - a very tough week to come though.

RedDevil19

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Add nani to the expendebles

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Agree that Anderson, Kiko & Bebe are surplus. Shame there wasn't much interest in the younger lads this summer and it's a shame no one was prepared to pay us what we wanted for Anderson. Cannot shift players if there isn't anyone willing to take them. I still think Kiko and Bebe will go to the Championship, but Anderson will get games in the League Cup and if he impresses perhaps he will break into the squad again?

Sydney!

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I think Ando will be a first team regular by Xmas if he stays fit (I know I know) ... He still offers our midfield something that the others don't - forward driving runs and energy. He combines well with Clevs, but maybe they need a defensive like Scholes behind them (Carrick slows play down too much for me).

If he can't prove fitness before window opens then we need an upgrade... Garcia is going to haunt us this season I think. Already bricking it playing City with Yata, Garcia and Silva in midfield... Oh dear.

DodgyBanter

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16 Sep 2012 11:05:41
I completely agree with Martinez regarding Welbeck, it was a dive and I do not like to see it, but that didn't cost Wigan the game as Hernandez missed. We beat them fair and square. Welbeck's late challenge on Di Santo was definitely a yellow, but I wouldn't class it as reckless and certainly didn't deserve a red.

Sydney!

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Totally agree Syd! It sickens me seeing our players dive against weaker teams like Wigan, It's like the players think the need to dive to beat them. As much as I like Welbeck, I hope he is left out of the starting 11 next week and Fergie gives him a little telling off and Welbeck understands that he doesn't need to dive.

-JakeW

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16 Sep 2012 10:55:13
was it just me or did anyone else think buttner had a cracking game, he looks comfortable, skilful and isnt afraid to go past people given the oppurtunity, nice goal as well(granted he had a bit of luck the way the ball fell). i know it was wigan at home, but still.... sterner tests to come granted.

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16 Sep 2012 10:28:56
Did anyone notice how Powell took his goal yesterday? reminded me so much of Stevie G

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Yes, Liverpool missed the boat there mate. No wonder Ed001 was so disappointed about not getting him. He would have went straight in and replaced the 'over the hill' Gerrard.

Sydney!

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16 Sep 2012 10:19:51
I know Büttner looks a little rough around the edges, but playing and training with the players at United he can only get better, i'm not going to jump the gun and start branding him after 1 game, but I thought his engine was tremendous, every time he got forward, he didn't mess around getting back into position.

RMD

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He also has really cool hair :)

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16 Sep 2012 09:13:39
Match 4 of the season, a great reason to smile, even though it was a game of two contrasting styles, one lackluster the other attractive. Ginger was still the best man on the field but when replaced we saw new hope for the future in Powell, what a great start as a Man United player, the way he sold the dummy to the opposition defender tells of his class even at this very early stage, and what a finish to end it, wish him the very best with Man United and congratulations on his wonderful debut, he looked good on the ball and his passes too were precise.

I had written earlier that Buttner should be given the lesser games and so it happened. Buttner too had a wonderful debut, good runs not just down the line but through the middle as well, he not only has got speed and ball control but can also bulldoze his way through the opposition defense, and that's what we lacked in the past on the left flank, he even managed to take the ball off the feet of the advancing opposition attackers a few times as a result there were hardly any attacks from our left flank, I know this is just his first game and we shouldn't get carried away, I only hope he will perform consistently whenever he get hi s chance. A lot of our fans have turned against Evra, but we should not forget that he had been a good Man United foot warrior for the good part of the last half a decade, no doubt he has lost his touch, I hope Buttner's performance will give him the much needed impetus to do better and thus redeem himself. I am sure SAF will play him (Evra) in the CL and tougher League games with Buttner should get the lesser games to improve his skills.

Welbeck had a good game, worked very hard but the same old story of misses in the third quarter, It looks like he just cannot keep his balance for too long and has no speed which lead to the ball being either too far ahead of him or him tripping over the ball or loosing the ball in the box, hope he can improve on his speed and balance. His dive was a disgrace to the game and the club, the FA should fine and suspend players for diving in the box through video footage to put an end to this fiasco that brings disrepute to this lovely game of Football.
Our defense was much better and tighter except for Rafael, but on the other hand the opposition did not have the Dembeles, Fellianis or even the Lamberts. Liverpool will surely test our defense in the air and hope they come out tops. Carrick was good on the ball as long as no one came onto me on the first touch, but when rushed he does tends to loose his bearings, but his pass to Nani that gave us the first goal was class, so was Chicha's presence of mind to wait for Powell to come, that got us the last goal. Chicha's movement off the ball was good today, game time will help him a lot. Nani was a mixed bag as usual, our goalkeeper had to make just two good interceptions, a clean sheet certainly looked good after conceeding five in three games.

Over all happy with our performance only hope we start all our remaining games thinking it's the second half of the game. Way to go Man United - Fred

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16 Sep 2012 04:43:56
Red Joe, Evra is well past his best. His legs went a couple of year's ago. We will see Buttner slowly take over from Evra this season and Evra is almost certain to leave this summer.

Sydney!
---------------------------------------------------------
Totally valid point mate, but that is kind of what i'm saying use him less so he can rest his tired, ageing legs. If he changes the way he plays like for example; Giggs, then he could be far more influential on a game by just being solid. His passing and crossing is still good but I don't see why he can't cross from deeper.

If he works on being dependable like Irwin or even Heinze instead of an attacking flair merchant I think we would get a lot more out of the man. It's almost like he's working too hard and he needs to sit down, accept he's getting older and think about what he can add to his game as his pase and stamina deminishes.

I mean did you ever think you'd see Giggs become a very decent CM?

Red Joe

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Red Joe, I have just responded to AJH further down the page which explains my thoughts on Ev further mate.

Sydney!

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Very decent? Don't get too carried away.
Timbo

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Syd
you have been saying that for a while but at last you may be right i think this may be evra's last year with him going back to france next summer.
ps i dont expect fabio to return
jred

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I thought there was a good chance Ev would be sold this summer before the manager confirmed Fabio will go out on loan, but I did think it is was unlikely Evra would leave when Fabio joined QPR.

I did think it was a case of Baines
replacing Evra with Fabio remaining the back-up. Fabio leaving made Evra leaving very unlikely, especially with Fryers leaving too.

Perhaps if Baines had signed and Fryers had stayed Ev may have been sold? I guess we will never know. I have my doubts regarding Fabio too, but he may stick around just until Blackett is ready?

Sydney!

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16 Sep 2012 01:47:19
SAF now seems to have leant off Cleverley and said in his interview that he is hoping Powell can be the one to replace Scholes. Is SAF going a bit senile or is he just unsure...? Perhaps Clevs to replace the new type Scholes and Powell to replace the old goal scoring Scholes of today? Speaks volumes of the ginger prince that it would take two players to replace him. My favourite ever player by a long way, how he didn't win any player of the year awards is beyond me!

Dan

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Dan, you are spot on with your 'two Scholes' assessment. There was the pre 30 Scholes where he was like Iniesta where he would get forward and bag a load of goals and there was the 30+ years Scholes where he took on the Xavi role and sat in front of the back four.

The manager's comments would have taken some pressure off of Clevz and it also would have boosted Powell's profile somewhat. Liverpool have Sterling, we have Powell kind of thing. I keep saying it but I think we have a very strong squad which will get much stronger due to the younger lads getting more experience.

Sydney!

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Completely agree. how the hell did we manage to go half a season without him?
nov00

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Since when has inesta bagged a load off goals Sid scholes is nothing like him even when he used get in box . Inesta is a dribbler
Red fox

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16 Sep 2012 00:57:59
nobody has mentioned this yet but whenever hernandez dropped deep or outwide he done very well at holding the ball up, passing it and in general linking up. if he can build on his all round game that we've seen today i can see him getting a good few starts under his belt. The Moon.

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Hope so. He's shown he is a class youngster, and he certainly has the appetite.

I hope he can develop his all round game without nullifying his goal scoring prowess!
Timbo

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