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17 Apr 2013 22:33:47
Eds I see someone has asked about logging on and it saying the website has been hacked, well ir said the same to me and my comp in new and been used a few times, might be worth looking in to
Chris the REDman {Ed001's Note - if it was a real problem with the site, your browser would block access, not say the site has been hacked mate.}
17 Apr 2013 23:42:49
I have been defending Rooney all season but I am starting to think its game over for him. He is obviously a good player but in bad form but the main difference lately is he isn't putting in any effort at all.
As for tonight Jones was playing further forward than rooney and had a bad game, he is a defender and it shows when played further forward.
Valencia had a good game, it was good to see.
kagawa looked poor when deeper and on the left but his great control and quick passing looked very promising when around the box, and for the first time I agree he should start there ahead of Rooney.
also vidic was great.
That was me that said that
ekd
17 Apr 2013 23:30:53
Can someone tell me how Carroll stayed on the pitch tonight? Sir Trevor brooking telling us it was one of those challenges and nothing wrong! This is the problem with our league. In Spain or Germany, the player would have got sent off.
Of course west ham will cave in next week against city, but we need to look after our own results and three points against villa on Monday. Comer on united.
Nomidfield
17 Apr 2013 23:12:11
So let's look at the game. Ferdinand you are a coward you have always been a coward and you have always been bullied by aggressive centre forwards Duncan Ferguson used to terify you. And you got turned for that first goal like a championship rookie. Rooney the rose tinted specticles are finally starting to fall from peoples eyes and maybe I wasn't talking such rubbish about him. He was appalingly bad tonight and lazy. He wanted to play the game at walking pace. Fergie is losing patience and to take him off when we are a goal down with 20 to play sent out a big message. Cleverley once again the Boss didn't think you could influence the game. Giggs came on and seems to believe that he has turned into an American quarter back who just launches balls forward. Did you see Fergie go mental and scream just pass the ball. Fergie once again far too slow to react to the situation. The game was there for the taking but he just sat back and hoped things would happen. Both goals were set up by Kagawa who was causing all kinds of trouble so who did he take off Yes Kagawa.
He is so busy telling people we are just ticking games off and we played the game tonight at the pace of a team who had already won the league. Where was the urgency where was the passion. I must admit I do think City will find it very difficult going to Spurs after playing these 2 games whilst Spurs have been resting let's hope Bale is back and City slip up.
To be fair I think Duncan ferguson would terrify most people.
God, why have a go at cleverly for no apparent reason.
nikz
I was a bit worried when I heard SAF say we had played like Champions. We looked sluggish throughout although I was amazed when he took Kagawa off.
Eds, is it possible to limit KLOOT to just one post per month? I mean let's be honest. every single bloody one is the same! I assume you're one of these people KLOOT who sits in the dark at home and gets angry at the world while seeing people outside having a good time?
Andy: This is a banter page, right? If he is sits in the dark at home, angry at the world and does his rant and rave, does it matter? KLOOTs rants is one of the main reasons I follow this page. And even though he is a bit harsh, he is mostly right.
He is definetley right about Kagawa. Why would he take out him? He was the only player, last night, that plays fast possession football (like we all want United to play, right?) Uses fast one or two touches, and play on, and is always avaliable to recieve it again. How many times this season, have you seen fx. Valencia in that position Kagawa was on the first goal, and leds to another waste of attack? Yeah, I know it was poor defence, but still. He is the best United players, when it comes to ball control. Rooneys performance last night sums up everything KLOOT has been saying against him, all season. "Yeah, but he brings so much to the team, he is what makes the team click, and also put in a good defensivly workrate". If I can count how many good things Rooney did last night, it was 1. The cross to van Persie that led to the Jones chance. that's it. Our highest earner, our talisman.
Wow. this is my first rant and rave! Kinda like it. :)
Someone told me last night that Cleverley has been dropped due to fear of burnout. So Cleverley was never going to come on last night unless it was an emergency.
Rooney was very poor yesterday, he tried hard for the first 30 minutes or so, but even then he was sluggish and looked out of sorts. I do think that his weight issues have finally caught up with him to the extent that he will never get back to what he once was. He did have an early peak so unless he can adapt his game more and cut out the fatty foods, beer & fags, it will only get worse for him.
Ferdinand was a disaster last night, although he has had a good season you can see that his playing days are nearing an end. Maybe this will be his final season?
Sydney!
I normally don't post very often on here but I read daily. I will say I have long agreed with KLOOT on the subject of Rooney. I am not in the least bit judgemental due to the contract issues he had with United in the past, I am simply calling it how I see it on the pitch.
Rooney for me just is too streaky anymore and the argument about his work rate doesn't add up. That opinion goes out when I think of how much MORE Welbeck works than him. If PSG (or anyone else for that matter) come with 30-35 million for him, United have to cut the sling.
As far as Kagawa, pure class last night. Both goals were DUE TO HIS work rate and craft in and around the box. I cannot wait to see what he can do once some more quality in the midfield is brought in to support him.
ussoldier77
17 Apr 2013 22:59:53
We knew it was going to be a tough game and it was, Big Sam had his team well drilled and they kept running tight to the last. Obviously its dissapointing to drop points but you have to give credit to the opposition sometimes. I don't think they out played us and we created enough chances to win the game, but sometimes things don't go your way. We didn't play at our best but there was a few brights points. Kagawa showed glimpses of what he can do, he just needs more support in and around him. And I think we've seen David De Gea become a man tonight, The way he stood upto Carroll and fought to get to the crosses with no fear of getting hurt was great to see. He is also becoming much more vocal as he gets a better grasp of the language. It was also good to for Rvp to get a goal in open play.
Rooney's performances are getting worse by the game, there has to be something going on behind the scenes. Sir Alex doesn't trust him anymore and dragged him off when we were 2-1 down, He didn't pick him for the Madrid game which was probably our biggest game this season. The manager doesn't trust him anymore. I think he may be off in the summer.
Shappy
I think so too. I am not sure what it is but he is clearly struggling. Maybe they need to change his training regiment as he is not suited for playing in midfield and seems to struggle when playing upfront, where you are surrounded by big centre backs and keeps dropping deeper and deeper to get involved.
I honestly could not figure out what formation we were playing yesterday as it seemed like at one point Kagawa was our most advanced player and RVP was on the wing and rooney in a midfield 3.
Another thing that stood out was whilst Jones is great at breaking up things and being big body in the middle, he struggles when it comes to being part of the buildup going forward and clear that he just wants to get rid of the ball to someone else.
Shahram
18 Apr 2013 07:50:54
I think this game showed that Jones is a CB not a CM, he's useful if your going to be on the back foot a lot and there is a player who needs to be man marked like in the Madrid game.
As for Rooney, quite often when he has problems off the pitch you see it refected on the pitch. No i'm not say he has got an off field issue but he is playing like he has. I'm undecided on whether he is unfit or lacking motivation, so many times last night he let people run by him. Was it he couldn't chase them or he couldn't be bothered? I'm starting to think its an attitude thing over a fitness thing. His passing is very lazy at times which is when he gives the ball away, that's not down to fitness but to poor concentration and maybe a poor attitude. Maybe he know's he doesn't have a future here, maybe he's having personal problems or maybe he's unfit. I dunno but with every passing game it seems he is playing worse, and i'm becoming more convinced we maybe seeing Wayne move on come the summer.
17 Apr 2013 22:32:42
everyone on here is so pessimistic, its unbelievable. we are 13 points clear, with 5 games left. if city slip up in any way against spurs and we beat villa, then the title is ours. surely we want to be in the position we are in, rather that hoping teams above us slip up. jesus some of you need to get a grip. when I come onto this site its just constant moaning and berating our team. I know we have high standards, but we are not in anyways as bad as some of you make out. get some perspective.
anyway, let's focus on the positives. kagawa is so classy its unreal, was pretty gutted fergie took him off, but next year he will be our beat player, mark my words. also shout outs to de gea, valencia and carrick. I think it's a pretty good draw, out of the top four/five they have only lost to spurs thanks to some bale magic, its a tough place to go. but fairplay to us for coming back twice!
over these last two games you can see that we are coming out of our wobble, there just seems to be a bit more about us again and with rvp scoring again i'm not worried about city in the slightest. let's just all enjoy it, come the end of the season we will all be itching for the season to start and surely it would be a bit boring if it was already in the bag right? we're man united, we always keep it interesting
speak to you soon guys
17 Apr 2013 22:18:58
EDs, just a quick question away from the football
when I came onto the site today it was saying it was hacked and there was like this weird matrix banner thing with theme music and all sorts. so I was just inquiring was it me or was the site hacked because I was so confused?
thanks {Ed001's Note - that is you end mate, probably picked up something in your browser. Easy to do if you watch streaming football matches, the adverts often contain malware, deliberately to put people off using streams.}
Oh ok, it was so weird and creepy! but thanks for the response, seems to be all cleared up now
Sorry to be a pain, but I was wondering if you know how I would remove it? I can get on this site when I type it on google, but if I type it in the browser bar and get linked straight to the site, it brings up the hacked page. {Ed001's Note - any spyware remover should get rid of it. There are a number of free ones. If you are on a PC, Windows has one that you can download that, I hate to admit, is one of the better free protection suites available.}
Much appreciated Ed, thanks
Ed I seem to have the same problem when I type up .com into my URL but co.uk then its all good.
Shot stopper
17 Apr 2013 22:16:16
I have no idea why the manager took Kagawa off today, he was excellent. Rooney deserved to be taken off but for Giggs? 2 of the strangest subs.
17 Apr 2013 22:14:54
I think the writing is on the wall for Wayne Rooney. Normally you can forgive a player for having a sub-par season but Not when you are earning close to 200k a week. When you earn that kind of money you have a responsibility to perform to the highest standards consistently, and Wayne just isn't doing that.
I still believe he has something to offer but unless he is willing to take a sizeable pay cut, then he needs to be sold. Either that or very quickly start performing to the standard required of a top top earner!
Norts
Shrek should of been sold 2 years ago. He thinks he's better than he actually is. Not just his fault but another woeful lacklustre dull boring performance, but that's the norm these days with us. If we don't spend big in the summer & get rid of some of the deadwood we will be left behind
Blackpool Red
Shrek? Grow up.
Strange, fickle and weird for me. Rooney was average ( bordering poor) for me today. But I don't see one comment regarding RVP. Thought he was poor today as well. Different yardsticks for different players.
Despite not playing great, he made a significant contribution by equalising and playing a part in the first goal, in the end making the difference between a loss and a draw, unlike Rooney who contributed nothing and was a borderline liability.
Norts
NoName
RVP wasn't up to his usual best but he still puts the effort in - making runs, coming deep to collect the ball firing balls into the box - RVP has been our best player this season so I think we can give him a average performance now and again - the problem with Rooney he has been woeful all season - you could count on one hand the games rooney as played well in.
RVP was average last night but he still got us the point albeit offside
17 Apr 2013 22:11:06
Another pretty poor performance again. The most alarming thing about it is Wayne Rooney. His form has really dipped dramatically and is getting to the point where if he's not leaving, he's going to find it hard to get into the team next season. I was delighted that he was subbed and Kagawa stayed on. Kagawa was the only United player providing RVP with any sort of service. Rooney just looks unfit and not bothered at all. How often do you see him get subbed without any sort of reaction. I think a deal is in the pipeline for a transfer and to be honest he needs it as he's starting to go stale at United now. His touch, turn of pace, passing and his hunger have all deserted him. You just hope he's not heading down the same road as Owen and becoming burnt out in his mid twenties, that would be sad to see. Kagawa's performances lately have provided a glimpse of what's to come and add Zaha and possibly Rodriguez to that and it has the makings of a good side. A left back is urgently needed as Evra has seemingly lost the ability to defend and, for someone who always has a lot to say about anything and anyone, he should take a look in the mirror. Most teams exploit him every week, Fabio doesn't appear United quality and Butner is a bit rough round the edges but should be a decent squad player. All in all, RVP to score the title clinching goal at Arsenal sounds good to me!
Big G
I actually thought Rooney and kags had similar games today, both saw plenty of the ball and linked the play up especially in the first half.
I actually thought it wasn't Carrick best day at the office
I thought I was the only one that thought this jred, glad you think the same.
I agree Rooney wasn't brilliant but he wasn't bad. I think players watch to see how much they can criticise him.
Yes he does have stray passes and does lose the ball but to be fair he gets involved in play more than any other player so the chances are that he will have more chance to make mistakes.
Compare this to the rose tinted glasses of rvp, he did nothing tonight and continually gave the ball away and run in to defenders.
I'm not saying he's bad or Rooney is better just that people see what they want to see sometimes.
And if Rooney had scored 1 penalty and one off side goal in 12 games and contributed little else he would have been slated yet when rvp does it its because he hasn't had the service!
On another note I thought kagawa is starting to show what he can produce, rafael played well again, vidic was his usual brilliant self but special mention to degea, not only is he improving every week but the way he is handling himself, being vocal, standing up to players is really encouraging.
The challenge from carol was nothing short off assault!
Karllap
In the first half I though kags and Rooney were our best players
Big up to ddg continues to answers his critics
Karllap
My friend, his our shiny new toy, he goes by the name of RVP. :)
Deeps.
17 Apr 2013 22:05:06
ok so i'm confused, Andy Carroll get MOTM for? Forarm smashing our keeper? Elbowing vidic at every possibility?
Still Rio tonight you just have to write this game off as a bad day at the office as does Rafa!
Good to see toni showing some sort of form again, also I love the way everyone just laughs off Andy Carroll's Smash on DDG then we get fat sam complaining about a offside goal scored then says how Carroll was just clumsy, great deflection of attention on bad subs Sam.
Now can we all feel sorry for Sam because of the new rules put in place meaning westham can't get themselves in majour trouble again stopping them signing that great lump up front, is it me or if Carroll wanted to stay he might just lower his wages to stay and play?
Anyhow good dig in point tonight imo from the lads tonight against a team hell bent on kicking us to the moon and against a ref who was giving us NOTHING at all yet seemed to call up for every 50-50 in westhams favour. DDG you showed every1 tonite why u will become the best of the lot in the world tonight, Kags again showed when he gets a decent midfield around him he can play the football we want.
I just can't believe how bad the ref was tonight but we move on to Villa on monday and please spare a thought for me having to watch the game tonight with my girlfriends family due to commitments and they are all die hard Irons so I was taught a footballing education (sense the sarcasism) ;) {Ed004's Note - I was very impressed with De Gea and Kagawa today. Valencia played well, Carrick was alright as was Rafael and Vidic IMO}
17 Apr 2013 22:03:42
. 2nite was the final nail in Rooneys coffin. taking him off with 20 mins remaining while losing 2-1 shows that Fergie no longer trusts Wayne or worse Fergie thinks he don't need him. he could of moved Wayne upfont, but no. not starting him in the second leg against Real confirms this. Wayne made his bed when asked for 250k a week, & being average most weeks he has 2 lie in that bed. Wayne will find out like many, 'NO PLAYER IS BIGGER THAN MANCHESTER UNITED'. I ain't slagging Wazza as some weeks he's class but if PSG offer 40 million big 1's u can't turn that down. Deano.
17 Apr 2013 21:45:16
I am a fan of rooney, but due to his touch getting worse and worse, I feel kagawa should be play the cf role and rooney striker or on the bench
James
17 Apr 2013 21:40:05
We are chasing the game and two attackers come off for a poacher and a old man who has lost his touch. welbeck, hernandez should of came on for rooney and jones. kagawa should of stayed on.
17 Apr 2013 21:17:07
Rooney should have been subbed at least 15 mins ago, Jesus wake up fergie. Get Hernandez on.
Ref is terrible by the way!
Not by Giggs and why take out Kagawa?
Rooney played too deep today. Should have played more upfront
Totally agree. It took West Ham to score before we started playing som good football. Rooney is playing far too deep. Also it was frustrating watching us playing a long ball game to RVP in the first half. Rooney is a luxury and currently apart from running up and down hassling opposition he currently offers very little. He needs to be dropped and we should play
Hernandez/Welbeck with RVP.
Mad Hatter
Watching a post game show and they are ripping rooney to pieces and saying fergie should be looking at selling him.
They all think he is very unfit and only way to get through this sort of form is to re-commiting himself to get fully fit.
I am really surprised by this level of play from him and starting to believe maybe he is leaving.
Shahram
17 Apr 2013 21:16:30
Come on Fergie, Nani on for Valencia. It's all or nothing time.
Sydney!
You must be joking, Valencial had a good game and Nani is crap
Yes. Nani for Valencia at half time would have been perfect with the way we were setup today.
Credit to our team for coming back twice. Its difficult to win all matches anyway :)
Seriously Sydney, I wouldn't have Nani near the squad never mind the team
Not sure that was the real Sydney?
17 Apr 2013 20:56:40
Off the rumours for a min but ddg is starting to look more like a top class keeper welcome to Mufc my son
Dubred
17 Apr 2013 20:55:08
Go on David! Fantastic to see De Gea more than holding his own against this West Ham attack. I'd be absolutely gutted if we sold him this summer just as he is starting to make the OT number 1 jersey well and truely his own.
TK-Red
17 Apr 2013 20:34:54
A flying clothes line from Carroll on De Gea after kicking out and running his studs down rooney a leg. I think there is nothing in the rule book that covers any of that hence not even a free kick or card for either.
Supasub
The ref hasn't given United a bean this half. I can think of four occasions where a West Ham United player should have been booked and United haven't even received a free-kick. I didn't realise we were playing at Anfield.
Sydney!
I am beginning to hope we win this season and move on to the transfers asap.
Outs: Evra, scholes, giggs, nani, anderson.
Ins: Strootman, a striker, a left back and a winger.
Nozzla
17 Apr 2013 20:32:51
Lets hope kloot is not anywhere near london tonight, rooney could be in big trouble, rooney is shocking
I thought he played quite well to be honest so far, been involved a lot, linked the play up well.
Not entirely sure where he's playing, very deep it's almost a midfield 3
Piss poor defensive effort whilst marking Diame. let's hope he can get a goal to make up for it.
Sydney!
Apart from two long passes, he was shocking
nikz
It was a bit but some Times you have to give the player credit, nice turn good finish decent goal
17 Apr 2013 20:18:07
Looks like RvP is playing LW at times.
Sydney!
17 Apr 2013 20:11:20
Evra once again at fault for a goal. and ferdinand no where. left back a must for the summer along the with the other obvious position. nozzla
How was that evras fault
To be fair Rafael was out of position so Ferdinand covered, he was turned inside out so simply by Jarvis it was embarrassing. Evra was always going to be outjumped by Carroll, he does need to learn to make it more difficult for bigger strikers. It was just a comedy of errors. Glad we are back into the game.
Sydney!
Jred, Evra was marking Carroll (Wrong) and he didn't make any effort. Worst defender on the night is rio though. He's been poor last couple now. Tired?
Nozzla
Rio got left for dead and nothing evra can do when it came down to jump ball with Carroll.
Shahram
Nozz
The 6 ft 3" Carroll out jumped evra, I think your being very harsh
Evra likes to leave a gap so he can run and jump at a player, Evra's timing was off by a millisecond and Carroll won the header. He probably shouldn't have been marking him in the first place mind. Rio had a dreadful game, time to freshen things up with Evans or Smalling I think.
Sydney!
17 Apr 2013 20:02:59
Embarrassing defending by Rio & Rafael.
Sydney!
Rio has been awful this half. evra at fault again. Carroll is a thug of a man!
Nozzla
17 Apr 2013 19:46:09
Jones to pick up Diame in midfield and be an extra head in defence for corners and free-kicks.
Sydney!
17 Apr 2013 19:45:13
Can't wait to see Kags and roo interchanging.
17 Apr 2013 19:18:33
Got money on rvp to score and united to win 2-1 got it a 40-1
Chris the REDman
Good luck!
17 Apr 2013 19:03:46
I'd have like Rooney to play in midfield tonight but good positive team!
Caol�n
Agree, we've been looking to sign a quality midfielder since we were outclassed in champions league final against Barcelona (first one) -- we still haven't addressed it for whatever reason (not complaining, I'm sure the master has his reasons), why not not get Rooney placed for the role? He is more than capable and we already have quality forwards apart from Wayne
Not to mention possibilities up front, big talents in Lewy and Falcao linked, which in turn is exciting. I would love Goetze too, along wiv Strootman/bendar/Wanyama. Dreamy
He is more in midfield, at the moment him and Kagawa are running the game so far.
Supasub
17 Apr 2013 18:54:42
Happy with the lineup tonight, according to TS at least. Rafael back at RB, Vidic & Rio at the back, Evra LB, Jones in midfield with Carrick, same front 4 as at Stoke - Kags, Valencia, Rooney & RVP.
Really hoping for a good performance! COYR
Would prefer Welbeck on the wing instead of tony. But then who am I to question the master :)
COYR. 1-3 Man Utd
Its a pretty exciting lineup and imo the best and most balanced we can put on the pitch, maybe with the exceptions of Clevs over Jones and Welbeck over Valencia. i'm looking forward to watching the match.
17 Apr 2013 18:53:41
So just one change, looks like Rooney at cm again
How is Rooney cm it's carrcik and jones in the centre with Valencia and Kagawa playing on the wings.
Shahram
Rooney is sort of playing cm ish
17 Apr 2013 18:18:41
1. LIVERPOOL is a child who is very proud of the academic achievements of his grandfather.
2. MANCHESTER CITY is a spoiled child who spends money on expensive books but is never interested in reading them.
3. ARSENAL is a boy who used to be top of the class but dropped down because he had to sell his books due to financial problems. He tries hard but fails to come out on top.
4. TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR is a girl who gets decent marks on 1 specific subject. She always finishes behind Arsenal.
5. CHELSEA is a boy who fails and blames his teachers then his family finds a new teacher for him every year.
6. MANCHESTER UNITED is a boy who just performs in the final exams and tops the class.
United top of the class!
Brilliant assessment. loved it completely!
17 Apr 2013 17:37:38
For those who didn't believe Carrick was 50s on betfair (on which I had a 5er), he is 42s now!. Great odds on that site!
Tbh mate I thought you had put betfred but another poster highlighted it was bet fair so I maybe jumped the gun a little.
Apologies.
Ope you didn't waste your fiver by putting him on again? Haha jones first for me.
Jono
17 Apr 2013 23:03:17
No worries mate, I went with Rooney at 7s (6/1), as he's up front tonight. He's been backed down to 5/1 now though, Jones 38s earlier!
17 Apr 2013 16:22:35
do people think the same line up from stoke would be a good idead tonight or would the midfield get bullied?
Kagawa didn't play well against westham in the cup so I think young/cleverly would be more suited, a bit more energetic prowess
17 Apr 2013 15:06:33
Does anyone else still keep going to hit agree or disagree button before they realise they aren't there, I feel lost without them. agree?
BigMac
Ha tried to agree with this!
I reall miss it to be honest. I read this site at least twice a day and I usually look for the posts that have a lot of agrees or disagees as it shows me whether the post is worth the read. There's also people's opinions that agree or disagree with but don't have the time to respond, so it was a lot easier with the function;)
"Agree" T45
That was the problem to my mind Nik Legend SA. People seemed to believe that the more "agrees" they got, the more valid their post was. It's a bit like someone fishing for likes on FB. Not for me thanks. I prefer it this way as it forces people to put a bit of thought into a response.
TK-Red
17 Apr 2013 14:34:52
imo falcao will only come in if rooney goes to psg both rumour rift at moment see it aug 31st
17 Apr 2013 14:30:28
Did everyone saw Ross Barkley yesterday?
He was being talked about last year a lot?
Red Samurai
17 Apr 2013 14:05:37
cazorla what a player. we miss him. his ball control is phenomenal. he was sorrounded by 5 or 6 everton players, yet he gets away from it. shame we missed on him. fergie should have bought him.
gutted
We don't need him.
17 Apr 2013 16:17:11
focus on the players we do have or the ones we are likely to sign. you are probably a gooner trying to big up one of your players though
You know this poster is wearing an Arsene Wenger Caterpillar coat whilst he's posting these Cazorla posts ;)
Sydney!
17 Apr 2013 13:56:42
do you think we could tempt thiago alcantara if he is indeed a target? a lot has been said recently about his sadness about not quite breaking into the barca first team and we could offer first team football straight away? also a lot of talk about james mccarthy of wigan and how well cleverley and linked up? the midfield defo needs to be addressed though would you not think?
Would love Thiago Alcantara here, I think most would agree Barca. have the best midfield and still he played over 20 games this year and last.
Strootman, Thiago pairing would settle our midfield problems for years.
17 Apr 2013 16:02:46
Yeah buying Mccarthy to play next to Cleverley sounds like a great plan. Instead of playing with one average midfielder, we play with 2!
Schneiderlin is the only midfielder in the bottom 10 that would be a decent signing ( yes Cabaye is too expensive considering his age )
Mick
Greizman would be a good buy if we are buying future stardom.
Shahram
Agreed Grund, if we could get both Strootman & Alcantara for a combined £30m or so that would be our midfield options sorted for a reasonable outlay. Stroots to partner Carrick sometimes then take his place long term, Alcantara to start games ahead of Cleverly, making him work harder for his place. Then we have Jones, Giggs & Powell available for certain occasions.
Greizmann, Shahram? Future star? The lad is 22. Surely if he isn't a star by now then he never will be? ;)
TK-Red
TK
22 and good enough to play week in week out against the likes of iniesta, xavi, khadeira, alonzo. I could keep going if you would like me too.
I guess that is where you are missing the point. Age has something to do with it but not as you make it.
Your RVP thing is also bullocks because he was playing for feyenoord at 19, do you think any on our 19 year olds are good enough to play up front for a top three club in holland.
I recommend you watch greizman and then make that statement.
Mick seems to follow a lot of players and clubs and I would like to hear what he thinks of the guy.
TK answer me a simple question, who has come through the ranks in the last 12 to 15 years who has been a star for us or even a first 11 certainty. Go on mate you stepped in it, so entertain me :)
Shahram
What have Xavi and Iniesta got to do with it? He plays for Sociedad. By that logic would you like to sign Emerson Boyce and Clint Hill aswell? Your idea of logic is appalling. You're using examples of a player who played for 1 of Holland's top 3 as an example of teenagers playing for top clubs are you? Can you tell me when the last time Feyenoord won the league title? I could tell you but I'll let you google it for yourself. Feyenoord aren't anywhere near the level of Manchester United and haven't been for quite some time, there is a difference between playing for the 2. At Manchester United you have the pressure of having to win every week, at home and in Europe. You seem to be fixating on the age 19 but let's not forget this whole discussion was about the kids in our youth set up being good enough to play regardless of age. Considering we have Daehli, Januzaj, Pearson who aren't quite at that age yet, would you say they aren't going to be good enough? As that was the point you were trying to back up earlier.
As for your question about who has come through our youth ranks, I point you back to my earlier point, why don't you look beyond United and look at how many players are playing PL football that came through our youth ranks. In the last "12 or 15 years" I would say Jonny Evans, Darren Fletcher, Wes Brown, John O'Shea, Danny Welbeck, Tom Cleverley have all been classed as first team regulars at one point or another, some in better teams than others and not all of them at 19 years of age, some younger, some older.
Lets sweep back round to the main issue though. You backed a post that said "if they aren't good enough now, then they will never be" and yet now you are asking for first 11 certainties and "stars". ? There is a difference between the 2. Do you expect every player to from our youth team to be a superstar? Is Jonny Evans a star? Is Rafael a star? What constitutes a star, Shahram? You used the word, so entertain me.
TK-Red
Well Greizman is 22 and if you can't understand the simple logic that there are lot's of 21 and 22 year old who play football at the top level, then no point in having a discussion.
I am not sure where you are going with this mate but give it up, if they are not good enough at 21 to get some game time in the first team then they generally will not make it.
All the players you have mentioned are average and mostly not here anymore and the jury is out on the ones that are in the squad today with Evans being an exception.
For everyone that you mention 20 to 30 have never seen first team action and should be on a show where are they now:)
Your reasoning of I have a horse which is great but I am not going to race it until he is 10 years old is quite funny.
I did not say if some 16 year old or 17 year should be getting into the team but there are even exceptional 17 year old who can play at the very top level.
BTW I did not use the word never anywhere in the discussion.
Shahram
Shahram, you have an odd way of looking at things sometimes my friend. Most players start blossom at around 24. How anyone can say if a player hasn't made it by 21, then they probably won't is bonkers. It's easier to make it in a poor side like Real Sociedad than it is at a bigger club like United. Young players need game-time to improve enough to be able to play in a top side, so that is why they are loaned out at times.
Sydney!
17 Apr 2013 13:02:28
What your view on the Left Back situation?
Evra not getting younger and some report this year link him with PSG.
Buttner if given time will be good utd player and Fabio too.
IMO, SAF will wait the summer tour to see the progression of Fabio and Buttner.
but we have been link with Baines a lot, any one have clue?
JLBER84
17 Apr 2013 14:47:36
I think Buttner was a player bought to give Evra competition but has the potential to be his long term replacement. As such I feel he'll be given a chance. I think one of either Evra or Fabio will move on this summer. Then next summer we'll see how the situation stands.
Ideally would like Evra replaced with a better, younger model. Perhaps Baines if we can get him for around £12m this summer.
If there's no funds left after sorting out midfield/wings (I hope!) I'd keep him for another 12 months but give Buttner and Fabio more chances.
I hope we keep Fabio so long as he stays fit.
17 Apr 2013 12:27:13
Falcao is this years Sneijder. Over priced, not signing, and half the posters can't spell it right.
He's the best striker in the world (not counting messi or ronaldo) so how is he over priced?
55 million is well overpriced for a 27 year old who has only really done much in the last two years
17 Apr 2013 18:08:16
No players worth that amount of money. Its obscene.
I can think of two.
StevieK
17 Apr 2013 11:50:04
I heard manchester united are intrested in radamel falcao and many others like. gotze. di maria. cabaye. oscar of AT madrid. and many others.
17 Apr 2013 11:48:43
What is with all this hatred towards Valencia, the man is great player and a true professional? He has had a bad season granted, but to say he is not united standard is ridiculous. Before we sell a player totally committed to the club, let’s get rid of some of the players that have drained the club and stopped the progression of many talented youngsters. One bad season and the keyboard warriors come out and lay into Valencia.
Let’s get rid of the players that have no right being here and replace them before a resilient and adaptable Valencia. Anderson has not even put in a decent run of games since his first season, yet every year, people where coming on here and claiming it was going to be his year!
What about the extremely gifted Cleverly, what has he even contributed to this squad and how old is he again? How much improvement does he have in him? Finally, Welbeck, who I try and like cause he is from my neck of the woods, but every time I watch him he disappoints me. Either he needs to convert to a roaming winger or he will seriously fail to push through the strikers we already have and the ones coming through.
Before slagging of players that have contributed to United’s success, look at the players that have no right being here! Seriously, would you want us to buy Cleverly and Welbeck if they were playing for another club?
I agree that Valencia should be given another season to prove himself, however to state he is a great player is a bit over the top. you then say not to sell a player who is totally committed to the club but then go on to suggest selling cleverly and welbeck because they have contributed little. I would argue that over the season both of these players have contributed a fair bit to us winning the league. I agree they probably won't be in the starting 11 if we buy in the summer but I do belive they are commited to the club and would be happy to be part of the squad. Anderson I concede has had enough chances.
nathan
Valencia has been one of the worst players in the league this season.
cleverly up till the game against chelsea was playing really well
welbeck looked good whenever he played albeit not scoring and was close to mom against madrid.
if you take every game valencia has started this season you can see him as the worst palyer on the pitch by some distance.
cleverly and welbeck may not be great players but never have been as atrocious as valencia.
cleverly will be the next carrick and welbeck would be converted in to a winger me thinks
nikz
Valencia is a great player, because he posses a skill not many players have and that is the ability to play to a professional standard in a different position.
Cleverly is very poor and will never be carrick as he lacks the presence and the abilty to pass the ball forward. Albeit Carrick is no World beater, but adds much needed composure and descipline to the side and that is why a 31 year old is playing more games than the 23 year old Cleverly, we don't need someone who will be potentially as good as someone we have now. We need someone that is better than are midfielders now! I couldn't even see Cleverly as a Nicky Butt and I would concentrate more on Nick Powell who at 18 looks more developed than Cleverly physically and has the time to develop into a central midfielder, something Tom Cleverly will never be!
One game does not make a superstar and please tell me what is the role of a striker? If Welbeck is to succed and contribute he has to change position, but what I know about him is he is prone to a bit of lushing. I stand by what I say, these to would not turn our heads if they where playing for another club, so why do we want them now.
Valencia is a player every team needs, someone that plays for the team and not for himself. Recently his game has picked up and he will continue to improve each game.
aaallj5
17 Apr 2013 15:02:10
oh and the part about him being adaptable. don't get me started
Valencia has always been and always will be some footed player. He has lost his pace and that is the only asset he had. How many times has he gone past his man this year? I can't remember one game that he's played well. A mark of a great player is that they are the best in their position, I can name at least 20 right wingers better than Valencia.
Just because he's not up to standard, it doesn't mean we hate him, of course we don't hate him. He's a decent and honest guy but that is not the criteria for playing for one of the top teams in the world.
Nomidfield
17 Apr 2013 15:01:13
what a load of dross, valencia has been terrible and has never been brilliant, I am so glad you are not manager, cleverly and welbeck have both had good seasons and contributed a lot more. it baffles me how people can defend valencia, I think its just because he seems a generally nice guy and committed but if he's not good enough i'm afraid we can't be too sentimental, nani has played better than valencia this season as has evra and anderson when played yet they get ripped a new person at the mention of their names
Worst player in the league is an overstament and he is very committed and I also believe he has helped Rafael a lot this season
Aaallj5, Cleverley very poor player? Maybe someone should let Pearce, Hodgson, Captain Marvel & SAF know this.
He hasn't convinced me by any stretch of the imagination, but he is still a good player, but that is it at the moment.
Sydney!
Do it NoMidfield, name 20 right midfielders who are better than Valencia
Could you see Cleverly being wanted by Real Madrid or Barcelona? How about Chelsea and City? What about Arsenal or Tottenham?
Tom Cleverly is a poor player that will never stand out at Manchester United, we talk about my sentiment to Valencia, who if I am not correct was player of the season last year, and who has a league championship medal, league cup winners medal and a runners up medal in the champs league. What does Tom Cleverly, have on his C. V, avoiding relegation with Wigan!
aaallj5
Don't get me started:-)
Nomidfield
17 Apr 2013 18:20:23
Well cleverley very shortly will have a championship winners medal so that nullifies that argument. Your saying he isn't any good because he has no winners medals. Despite only being a united player for two seasons. Do you see how absurd that argument is. Your saying that valencia should be given time to get back to form. Well shouldn't cleverley and welbeck also be given time rather than being written off after less than two seasons. Brown, O'shea, Neville, Evans, Carrick, Fletcher, Evra. All taken stick over the years from so called fans. All came good in the end. There's a thing called patience. MrE
Aaallj5
I was with you on the Valencia bit, just about, but then you lost me with the rest. Valencia deserves 1 more season to prove if he can get back to form. If not, that's him done IMO. Clev & Welbeck deserve a few more seasons to see how they improve.
17 Apr 2013 09:16:57
JonO where are you.
I have us Drawing tonight. City Winning in indies. Hate to bet against us winning but just have a feeling it will be tough against West Ham.
I also have a 4 better on arsenal drawing, us drawing, Chelsea winning and City winning.
Also really tempted to take Roma on win or draw against Inter. Inter have been rubbish and have major injuries upfront.
Shahram
I said seven points from our next three (Stoke, West Ham United & Villa) will put us in a comfortable position. However I did say if we can overcome Stoke I fancy us to go on and win the remainder of the games. So I think a narrow win with big Sam getting an FA charge will be the outcome tonight. 2. 1.
Sydney!
I am a lot more relaxed now than I was on sunday morning - Stoke was a huge victory and it showed with RVP celebration - dropped points on sunday would have that door creaking open ever so slightly.
West ham will be a very simliar game to sunday - tossing long balls to Carroll etc i'm hoping for Vidic to start as there isn't anyone better going for a 50/50 header although playing two games in four days might be a bit of a long shot.
Going for a dull 1 nil away win - RVP with a rocket ;)
Completely disagree, for me it's going to be 3 nil. Kagawa pulling the strings around a wesk west ham
Patzi
I think tight game maybe 3-2 winners. West ham have a habit of nicking goals from one long punt or set pieces but out attacking at the. Minute is creating a fair few chances ATM. With all the problems lying again in cm selection. If we put some steel in there even in the form of Rooney again we should win but giggs which I think he might play against Nolan and noble will be found out so making it harder to control.
High scoring narrow win I think. (So 0-0 it will be ha)
Others I'm putting on is a 4 fold us, Chelsea, PSG and Victoria to win
Agree with Patzi
I think we've looked drained and tired lately but I think getting the 3 points away at Stoke will have done some good.
Have a better feeling towards the match tonight than I've had for the last few. Think this might be where we find our feet again in the final third and put a few goals away.
3-0
Sydney I posted the same thing last week. Think we will get 7 points from the 3 games. Westham is a lot tougher than stoke.
Shahram
Patzi
No chance and don't be fooled by how poor stoke is as a team in believing we have suddenly become magnificent and will go upton park and give Westham a beating. If they score first, it might be a long night for us.
Shahram
Ok Jono
Got me thinking although every time I do this I regret it LOL
I just laid United, Roma, PSG, City in 4 accumulator, need 3 to come in to make money.
Cherios let the fun begin,
Shahram
Well if PSG come in I have had a fantastic night, even without them a very good night:)
Shahram
17 Apr 2013 03:06:26
Players out this summer : young nani, valencia, scholes, fletcher the first 3 were just terrible all year, poor scholes and fletch for different resons retiree and injury it might sound bad but we might want to look
At vidic and evra when we can still get a few pound for them prob is who is out there to step up to the plate have a few young lads fabio has a few games with qpr that will stand to him and we need cover for evens I think there is a lot more to come from buttner good on the wing will get better in defence. But we definitely need a good winger if not 2 (zaha on his way) and to add to our mid field let's see who
Vidic and Ferdinand are still our best 2 CBs. When they are healthy and playing, I have the utmost confidence in out team keeping a clean sheet.
Shahram
If you consider the players we have at the club that have made little or no contribution this season, we would be saving a bundle on their salaries alone. Scholes, Fletcher, Kiko, Bebe, Nani & Anderson. I'd imagine £20m-£22m for the sales of Nani, Kiko, Bebe & Anderson too.
Then you consider the players we already have at the club that have played sparingly or not at all that could add something to the side next season. Powell, Zaha, Kagawa, Jones, Smalling & Fabio. So we have a great squad, but it's now time to improve our first XI.
If United sold or released the players we haven't seen much of this season and swap them for a couple of players, we would already be stronger than last season. Especially when we incorporate the players we already have at the club that haven't played much this season for whatever reason.
Then it boils down to replacing big players if they are sold. For example if Evra, Ferdinand, Rooney or Hernandez are sold, then we replace them with an equally good player, or a player with the potential to be as good or better. Much of our business this summer will depend on sales.
SAF may not be able to buy all of his targets due to not offloading certain players.
Sydney!
I think vidic still has 2-3 years in him. He has never relied on pace, so age should not affect him too much. I still think hummels will be best replacement for Rio.
As for nani, young, Valencia, Anderson, all these can be sold if any serious takers, as non of them are the quality required, nowhere near in fact.
Nomidfield
Good post Sydney, I agree with everything you say.
Nomidfield - I think Vidic is struggling now, I gthink we have seen the best of him and if the rumours are true about Milan being interested for a price of 10-12 million pounds I wouldn't hesitate in selling him considering his age.
I think he's going to struggler more and more with injuries.
Simmo
17 Apr 2013 12:57:04
Vidic has been great since he came back. Its no coincidence we kept six straight clean sheets with him back in the team. People slate players for lack of loyalty then come out with comments like that. Vidic could have pushed for a move many times. We need to spend on midfield not shuffle out centrebacks who still have something to offer and spend big on replacements. Also regards nani, young and valencia its extremely unlikely all three would go the same summer. MrE
Good post Syd,
Simmo - Vidic struggling, really? Still our best CB imo and should be back to full fitness by next season (hopefully)
HBadger
HBadger
On what grounds is he our best CB, please explain?
For me Rio has been the best CB this year, never injured, always available. Considering everyone wrote him off last year.
I also think that Evans has been miles better than Vidic has this year.
You cannot say Vidic has been our best CB this season, no chance.
My main point is if we get offered 12 million from Milan for a injury prone CB who is 31 years old (32 in October) would you take it, I certainly would.
Simmo
Evra could be sold while we can still get a price rio can leave for free whenever
but vidic can stay till he retires he could let jones smalling evans in front of him in 2-3 years time and cover for injurys
Paddy The Irish Man
I completely agree with Hbadger. Vida is our best CB when fully fit. He wins everything in box and organise back four.
Simmo
He he had one terrible injury from which he was recovering and it looks like he is getting. I don't think there is a better defender in the world than vidic when he is fully fit.
Simmo
How is Vidic injury prone. He did his knee in according to that theory then arsenal should sell Wilshire because he had the same injury and took exactly double the amount of time to vidic to come back. He is our most fierce defender and best defender in terms of marshalling the back four.
He is being managed at the moment with game time as a precaution. The knee will get stronger and time heals things.
Your statement is along the same lines as Tiger woods which IMO is the greatest golfer ever has also had 3 knee surgeries and people could not wait to write him off and said he would never come back, well guess what he is back and back to being no. 1.
If we sell vidic how much do you think we need to spend on a defender that will give us what vidic does for the team.
Shahram
Simmo,
I know stats aren't everything but we tend to get clean sheets when he plays and tend not to when he doesn't. That seems to be a good indication to me! Also, watching the games he makes goal saving challenges regularly and puts his body on the line. I think he stops more chances on our goal per game, than any of our other CB's.
Don't get me wrong - I rate all our CB's highly and I agree Rio & Evans have been rocks this season. They've been consistant too. But it's no coincidence that our defence improved and we started getting regular clean sheets when Vidic came back. When he was injured we were leaking goals, not just the odd one either!
To me it's clear that Vidic is still our best CB and if he stays fit next season he will be the best CB in the league IMO. So no, I would never take £12m for him as it'd cost at least £15-20m to get anyone near as good. I think by the time Vidic and Rio are gone Smalling & Jones will be ready to step up, so the mix of age and experience we have at the back is perfect at this time.