Manchester United Banter Archive December 17 2014

17 Dec 2014 22:48:19
Have a look on the liverpool page rodgers has gone through being out the door to master tactician and a genius who has now saved there season brilliant

Until chelsea rips them apart in the semi's then he is back to being an person or maybe sooner when arsenal puts them to the sword this weekend.

The reality for Rodgers is that he had a really good year last year, and that raised expectations. The problem is that last year's attacking performances, especiall Suarez, glossed over the big problems with the rest of the team and the lack of depth in the squad. Rodgers needed to spend wisely this summer, but he ultimately splashed out upwards of 100 million on players who are either untested at the top level, or below the standard required. My opinion is that he targeted top class players like Sanchez, and when they fell through he panicked and bought lesser options. The result is that Suarez wasn't replaced, Gerrard doesn't have a suitable deputy and the defence is still a shambles. I don't see him lasting, and the club may want rid before January and he gets the chance to waste even more money.

Danny totaly agree I watched them for a laughagainst madrid over there hoping th3y would get hammered and they actualy played well but still after all the stick they gave us 8v over moyes makes it feel even better

17 Dec 2014 17:25:30
Here's one for u guys on the diving and over zelous challenges debates going on in English football atm, what do u think about having 3 cards? yellow, red, and say green.

If the ref thinks u have dived or gone in to hard in a game u get a standard yellow card, if he's not sure u get a green card which means it gets reviewed in the week and if deemed it was a dive or excessive u start the next game u play on a yellow card or if already u had a yellow u get a 1 game ban. Like wise with rash challenges.

If the tackle was really bad ala Thatcher a few years back the ref can issue a yellow and green card which means the fa can then still take retrospective action. It would still support the refs decisions but might clear up a few grew areas.

Me format would also include if u get say 2/3 green cards that gets reviewed and result in further punishment the bans increase.

Eds/posters what do u think?

Just a thought I had today.

Chris

They do this in Rugby League albeit without an extra card. Players are put on report - I.e the ref isn't sure what happened but is asking that it is reviewed post game. It works well.

17 Dec 2014 18:15:23
Yes it works well in league. There's a lot of stuff in both codes of rugby that football could bring in.

17 Dec 2014 18:31:01
I think we should round up all the proven divers on a weekly basis, take them up in a plane, and push them out at 1500 feet with no parachute. See how much the really like it!

In all seriousness, that sounds like a good system but I'd rather keep it simple so maybe like AJH says - no need for an actual card?

My first port of call would actually be a short term policy of harsh retrospective action taken against divers. You would think that after a few bans are dished out it would put a stop to it. If it didn't work I would then put this suggested plan in place.

Footballers could learn a lot if they adopted some rules from rugby. We all know football is dictated by money now, but football is loosing its integrity in terms of fair play and respect. I don't think you can appeal to the better nature of footballers and suddenly expect them to be more respectful to referees and fellow players, because it just won't happen. Many top players, especially it seems in this country, seem to be completely detached from reality.
Hard, and sometimes mistimed and bad tackles, are just part of the game. As long as there is not deliberate intent to injure another player, I think the rules are fine as they are. As for going to ground too easily, it will always be open to debate IF the player has been touched. If a player goes down when no contact has been made, in my book that is cheating. Plain and simple. If the ref is conned by it during the game, there is not much that can be done about it without introducing video replays. But, if a player does dive, and therefore cheat, video evidence should be used retrospectively to impose am immediate 3 march ban. I honestly think that is the only way to stemp it out of the game.
In my opinion at least, diving and simulation is a cancer that is ruining the game. If players themselves do not have the integrity to stop it, then the only way to stop it is banning those who don't.

17 Dec 2014 19:47:47
I think the problem is, and always will be just how hard it is to prove. Intention is always a sticking point in any post game review.

17 Dec 2014 22:45:32
Gd post betty mate.

18 Dec 2014 09:34:22
My problem with the whole diving debate is that people are getting punished for 'going down easily' which is not necessarily cheating. I play football and I am pretty quick so any touch on my ankles and it can take me down. I have many times been accused of diving and cheating which is not the case, I would never go down when I have not been touched, but I grew up being told that if you get touched in the area you go down, otherwise you will never get the penalty.

It is a tricky one, there are a few players who go down when they have not been touched, but most of the time players are getting cautioned for 'going down too easily' which in my opinion is not a dive. I am not really of the opinion of betty that it is a cancer ruining the game, if people were throwing themselves to the floor each week when not being touched then I would say so, but you rarely see that, generally a foul is committed and the player just makes it look more like a foul than it is.

My big issue in football is time keeping, and that is something we should definitely take from rugby. Stopping the clock when there is an injury or substitution will stop any ridiculous time wasting. The ref has too much to be doing during the game to also be keeping an eye on his watch. The amount of time added on in most games makes zero sense, and if there is a stoppage during injury time the ref very rarely adds it on, for me this is something that ruins the integrity of the game.

18 Dec 2014 10:20:05
I've been saying for a while now that there should be a panel of ex players who review diving incidents at the end of the weekend and if a player is found guilty they get banned for a game, if they do it again ban them for 2 games and so on. It would soon stop them!

I have been saying for a long time that footballers should be subject to retrospective punishment. It is impossible for a referee to see everything and so often we see an instant replay on tv which makes it obvious that a player has cheated.
One thing i don't want to see however is every decision being referred to a third official This takes too long. In cricket every run out is referred and in rugby every try is referred.
One thing i would also like to borrow from rugby is the 10 minute sin bin. This could also be used for instances when the referee sees someone blatently cheating. It could also be used to discourage something else i hate in football the situation when a player, quote, takes a booking for the team. Surely it is another form of cheating when a player deliberately commits a foul knowing he will get booked but also knowing he may have saved his team a goal. Surely sending a player off for 10 minutes would act as a more fitting punishment then a token booking that is no punishment at all. I can just imagine mr mourinho moaning if chelsea conceded a goal whilst cahill was serving a 10 minute sin bin for diving!

Also in rugby they allow the trainers on to deal with minor injuries whilst play continues if safe to do- this would be great for footy and would hopefully stop the cheats from dropping dead just to hold up the opposition-the 4th official could deem if its ok to send on the medics and inform the ref on his radio that he's allowing the trainer on. bring it on i say

18 Dec 2014 22:39:53
Chris, I'd just like to know, with a new baby on the scene, where the feck you're getting all this thinking time? :)

17 Dec 2014 16:01:05
Totally idealistic view here, but how fantastic would it be in a few years to see Giggs managing Man Utd and seeing Henry managing Arsenal stood side by side at the touchline. Fantastic thought.

17 Dec 2014 16:21:30
As nice as it would be to see two club legends in charge of their clubs, I have to say I don't want Giggs anywhere near the managers job, he's just not manager material IMO

Andy

That's a bit harsh and I don't agree. Clearly great players often make poor managers but give the guy a break. He is learning his trade and time will tell if he is Manager material or not.

I agree with Andy. Sure hses been a great player but let's not be sentimental. We can't afford another moyes situation and i think whoever becomes utd manager needs arrogance and the ability to put their foot down. Giggs seems too much of a nice guy to say no and will go with experience over everything. I remember the end of last season he kept playing rio vidic evra young etc

Trust me, Giggs is no nice guy, he is hard as steel. The issue right now is his lack of coaching and managerial experience. I love how we dismiss a legend so easily.

17 Dec 2014 18:24:55
The lack of experience is the issue though. Can he really just step up into the job in this league with minimal managerial experience? It is a risk. I know people will point to Guardiola but spains a totally different case.

If we have a fully settled team stuffed with quality then that makes it easier. i'd like to see more of him in games. Maybe he should take charge in cup games, gives him experience an we can see how he sets his stall out.

17 Dec 2014 18:42:11
We just don't know is the answer and won't know unless he is given a chance, either with us or elsewhere.

However, I'm afraid I am of the view that Giggs has done very little to suggest to me that he has he has the inner workings of a top level manager just waiting to be released. Only a hunch really, from listening to him talking about the game and seeing how he set us up when he had his 4 games in charge. I was disappointed tbh with his lineups, considering we had nothing to lose and much to gain by experimenting. Somebody a while ago compared Giggs to Pep because of their history but atm I struggle to see the same level of understanding or cutting edge tactical awareness.

Of course he may well prove me wrong one day and I'd be glad if that happened - but I'd be very sceptical if Giggs were made manager in the nearish future.

17 Dec 2014 19:57:37
Van Gaal will know if he is good enough to manage at the top level this soon. If he is, I'm sure he'll recommend him.

17 Dec 2014 20:12:04
That's a fair shout, Ste, I agree

17 Dec 2014 20:37:36
Trumours,

Fairly sure Giggs gave both Wilson and Lawrence their debut at the end of last season? How is that always going for experience. And if you're talking about the back line? I'd say that's quite a wise choice.

He worked under arguably the most successful manager of all time for 20 odd years, I'd imagine he learnt a fair bit along the way.

Ozwald, but that was because there was nothing left to play for. Our fate was sealed at 7th place no matter the results . Woud he have the guts to do that in an important game? i'm not so sure

The only way i would want giggs near the managers job is if he goes away and proves himself at other clubs .he may have given wilson and lawrence there debuts but he was like a rabbit in headlights the last few games after the feel good factor dropped

Sensible thinking johndenton, yes as a manager he needs to prove himself at a less high profile club first.
If Giggs was given the Utd managers job and completely messed it up he would struggle with self confidence.

18 Dec 2014 11:31:54
There was pride left to play for, even more so as it was a club legend he badly would have wanted to win those games. I don't get why you said he only went for experience which is simply a false statement. Give me a break and stop making stuff up :)

Ozwald
To be honest giggs has done nothing as a manager to prove he is ready for a top managers job.
He worked under fergy but so did robson, huges bruce, ole, kean and ince and i'm not sure any of them are ready for the united job.

It woukd be a massive gamble imo

18 Dec 2014 12:43:27
Jred

I never said i think Giggs should be manager did I? I was questioning Trumours and the fact that he said he only played experienced players even though he gave two youngsters debuts.

I think he could be a good manager in the future after learning from SAF and LVG, not yet however. Also it's slightly different with Giggs and Fergie as opposed to the players you mentioned because he was with him from a young age and for a much longer time.

Haha ozwald i agree with what you're saying. I just don't believe he'd give youth a chance in a game that really counts. Also he tends to play the dreaded 4/4-2 which is quite boring

17 Dec 2014 12:52:23
Anybody worried by the lack of playing time for Januzaj?

He was one of our best players last season and I know he hasn't done well when given chance this season but now he seems completely frozen out.

Perhaps a loan in Jan would help?

17 Dec 2014 15:34:23
He was a breath of fresh air last season, and was one of our best players, a lot because of how bad we where playing. He also didn't have Mata/Di Maria to fight for his best spot and been used manly as a winger. Rumours say that Moyes want him on loan in Spain, maybe that will give him his confidence back?

17 Dec 2014 15:21:02
It was disappointing that januzaj did not make use of the chances he got to cement his place in the first team. I think it was the pressure to prove himself resulted in him not impressing. Having watched some of his performances in the reserves I believe his best position is still behind the striker and that he will not be a long term solution in the winger role. I don't see how he is going to get chances in that position with mata and rooney ahead of him in the pecking order.
The best thing for him right now would be to go out on loan and get his confidence back while gaining first team experience.

In fairness, he hasn't performed particularly well when he has played. At the start of the season he was a regular and was disappointing. I believe he has had a knock or two as well. He deserves to play more and if we sign another midfielder in January then I would like to see him go to Spain for 6 months, he would learn so much and is only young. He will end up being an important player for us, but let's be honest.

If you were looking for results quickly would you a young Januzaj ahead of Rooney, Mata or Di Maria?

He was very poor in his starts and i think he has gone backwards. I can't see him starting ahead of the guys we have and Valencia seems to be performing well as a wingback.

Ahh, one of my pet subjects. This kid has more potential than most, instead of loaning him out we should be working with hi, to develop and fulfill his potential. He has LVG and Giggs to help him, surely we can get him back on track? Loaning him out feels wrong to me. Keep him in the squad, give him time from the bench, build his confidence. People were raving about him last year and now we want to loan him out. Fickle?

He needs game time and if its not with utd he needs a loan move, he could of cemented a starting role this season but after 4 starts on the run his performences offered nothing to the team and he had to be withdrawn.he played brilliant last season and because we were that bad moyes put all his faith in him, he delivered a lot but i think its badly affected him this season.too much pressure too soon.

18 Dec 2014 00:19:45
You only need to look at across to Liverpool to see what happens when you put too much pressure on a young lads shoulders (Sterling). Januzaj should get his chances this season.

17 Dec 2014 10:23:11
Hi all,
Personally, I think DDG will sign a new contract over the next few weeks but as we all know in the modern day, this is unlikely to prevent him leaving in the Summer. If he were to leave though hopefully we would receive something in the region of £50 million. Perhaps part exchange for Bale?

Anyway who would be everyone's number 1 to replace DDG if the worst scenarios were to occur?

Merry Christmas.

I wouldn't settle for anything except a new ddg contract. We need to be like the elite teams, being Manchester United we shouldn't be forced to sell no matter the price. ddg took criticism for 2-3 years and we stood by him and now were reaping the benefits teams want him, should we let him go?personally i feel he wants to stay and all this talk about him leaving will be gone. His relationship with the fans and players, especially mata, herrera and adm is massive.

I'd have to be one of the top 5 keepers in the world because that's what dave is. top 3 IMO.

Soo i'd take Neuer

Im a big fan but he will only have 12 month on his contract come the summer, so he either signs on the dotted line or gets sold

Realistically come the summer and if he doesn't get much play time I would go for Petr Čech if we needed a good keeper. Easily a top performer and relatively cheap for what he could bring to the club, not to mention also would weaken a very strong Chelsea squad.

KingGiggsy
DDG part payment for Bale? I'd rather say Bale is part payment for DdG. Although i must say he shouldn't be sold!

The only way I would take a deal is if it included Bale as part of it. Otherwise, no way.

Neuer or Cortois are the only 2 in the same class as De Gea but given a choice De Gea all day long.
If he goes then:
1st Neuer
2nd Cortois

17 Dec 2014 13:38:59
I honestly think he'll stay for a few more years at least. If you look at his body language and the way he celebrates our goals you can see he has a lot of passion. When he signed he was the only Spaniard in the side, but now we have Mata, Herrera plus Spanish speaking Di Maria, Rojo and Falcao.
The main thing from a United perspective is we have to make him a significant offer fairly soon to show the love for him. He deserves it. Any player that constantly improves deserves to be rewarded. Nice little Christmas present if Dave signed on the dotted line.

17 Dec 2014 14:55:39
Mdb, thanks for the reply pal.
I would very much like to think that too by we are talking about a player that moved for €85 million 18 months ago and has just won the CL and Domestic cup double.
His price will at the very least be the same as it was 18 months ago and GKs will never reach the heights in terms of prices as that of Attacking players. Not something I necessarilly agree with but it is the world we live in mate.

17 Dec 2014 15:33:40
If we were going to sell de gea to them, I would want varane and benzema (replacement for rvp/ falcao) from them

Yeah kingGiggsy . that's the unfortunate truth.

Would take Bale for him but would replace him with Neuer Courtois Lloris or Cech no one else

17 Dec 2014 17:11:03
Matas beard,
There is no way we will be able to get neuer or courtois. I wouldn't want cech mainly because of his age. So the only realistic option is Lloris then