Manchester United Banter Archive November 17 2012

17 Nov 2012 23:36:33
Reading down the page you would think some people have just realized our midfield isn't good enough .
Strikers have been pulling us out the brown stuff all season.

When we out score teams it papers over the cracks but our midfied has struggled to control games all season.

Our front line is up with the best, although some people would like to sell some off them.

At the back we have evans smalling jones raf all making a name for themselves

But in the middle I would have to question if we have the potential , giggs and scholes have there best days behind them maybe even carrick, but have the players coming through got the potential to match them and compete with the best in europe imo no.
Jred

Yes the midfield has been relatively weak for a while but when the manager makes it worse by not even playing our best players in there it can mean the difference between us scraping an away win and dropping 3 points, that's my problem. Yes we need to buy a top CM but in the mean time don't play Giggs in there from the start! Carrick and Ando in there would have given us a far better chance IMO

Gav

17 Nov 2012 22:28:17
Why oh why didn't fergie get dembele? Just what or midfield needs, strong box to box midfielder. Plus should have kept pogba! If his attitude was a little off who cares he is young. Isn't that good in a youngster? Confidence. Rodriquez not needed get mvilla and bale.

17 Nov 2012 21:42:49
If you were asked to pick a united 11 to play in the champions league final this year if all the players were fit who would you pick?And it doesnt matter who were playing basically our strongest 11 this season.

Mine would be
---------------DDG
Jones--- smalling --vidic--- rafael
---anderson--fletcher---cleverly
--------------kagawa---------
----------rooney-----rvp

I really hope when everyone is fit adn we get a good left back jones can take fletcher's posistion honestly think hes more effective than carrick or giggs, atleast with cleverly and anderson there still young and can only get better
Sulei

Cl final!! we could not get there with keane, scholes, giggs and becks in there prime but once, we wont go past quaters. sir Alex needs to sign 2 world class cm. fletcher was useless against barca a couple years ago, ando is headless and can we please drop the charade with cleverly, nice touches but will never run a football match.
give sir Alex some time and he will sort it out, only thing worries me is bloody owners, if sir Alex had funds he would have bought cm for sure. dan {Ed004's Note - He has had a net spend of 130 million in the last 3 windows. That's more than enough for a midfielder.}

I know we wont make the final im using it as an example that if u had to pick ur strongest 11 not basing it on the opposition what would it be? i knw cleverly and anderson arnt world beater but there r best options ahead of giggs and scholes i also think flecther if better than carrick i think rafael/jones fb pairing can do a better job than raf/evra or jones/evra
Sulei

How much time do you wanna give fergie? Until giggs and scholes r in a wheelchair and unable to b picked! The reason we haven't won more European cups is because of fergie and his piss poor tactics.
CardiffRED

Cl is a brutal competition to win i admit. sir Alex has won it twice, not bad i think. look at barca, they never won it back to back. supposed to be best team ever. we would be most successful english team in europe had we had sir Alex in charge in the 70s and 80s. our clud was a mess then, forrest twice and villa and of course them. then it was a cake wake to quarters, somethimes even to the final, playing belgium team in the final, sweedish team in the final, please. now its much harder even to get out of group. people should sign name when slating sir Alex because when he is gone i fear the worst. hope we will slate next manager because he only won 2 cl trophies. dan

Dan

I am not one who says he should go but frustrated with what he sees in our current crop of midfielders that no one else sees and why every window comes and goes and he does nothing to remedy it.

Forget about European top sides and just take the top 5 premiere league sides and which one of our midfielders would start for them. I say none even young cleverly will be a bench warmer with chelsea, city, arsenal, spurs.

I know we are not privy to a lot of information but he has had money to spend and he chooses to buy wingers and strikers so don't blame the blazers for this one.


Shahram

17 Nov 2012 21:20:51
Can see QPR getting their first win when we play them if we put this team out again.
MUFC19

17 Nov 2012 21:09:40
I dont know what happened today, it was a day of huge usets in european football. All the following results were unexpected:

- Everton 1-2 Reading

-Chelsea: 1-2 West Brom

-Norwich : 1-0 Man Utd

-Rennes :2-1 PSG

-Wigan : 0-3 Liverpool

That shows even the best of teams can have off days, and the worst can win.

On another note, the loss today is 100% on Ferguson

Mick

That is funny Mick and I slept off the rage.

Shahram

It happens but everybody knows why we lost. No excuses... Unfortunately SAF hasn't enough tactics knowledge or he lost the capacity to read/scout the opponents and use the right tactics.

Nick86

17 Nov 2012 20:46:57
I'll take a loss. I'm pretty sure we all had that gut feeling w/ Giggs and Carrick in the midfield. I thoughts Giggs should of been subbed out and not Valencia or Chicha. Young didn't help the causes. I thought some of his corners were atrocious. 12 corners and not felt much of a viable threat. I love ya Giggsy but we need to make way for some youth.

17 Nov 2012 20:33:34
I was at Carrow road today, first Utd game I've gone to see since 2003, so was really looking forward to it. Then I saw the team sheet.

What I don't understand is how Fergie doesn't / can't see what we're all seeing, and have been seeing for nearly 3yrs now? He's the greatest manager of all time. He's rebuilt generations of winning teams. He's ruthlessly culled anyone that underperformed. He's the BEST. But he can't see what's happening. Why? No one can answer that, but it's worrying.

Our tempo has gone because we've got no midfield. Well, that statement isn't true. We have got a midfield, a good one. Sat on the bench. If I was Anderson or Cleverley I'd be on the phone to Pogba's agent asking for a way out. At their age they should be starting 8 out of every 10 games. If they don't cut it, fine, sell them, but give them a chance first. Settle on a midfield 3 of Carrick or Fletcher and stick Ando and Clevs in front of him. Then let the front 3 of whoever do whatever they like. It would at least allow that Fergie tempo to prevail again.

Problem is, with Fergie's tactics, no tempo equals no winno. Whether we play wide with wingers or narrow with AMC we must have tempo to get the best out of Fergie's tactics.

I really hope that Sir Alex and future Sir Giggs don't tarnish everything and really mess this year up.

I also wonder what Rio and Rooney must think about this team compared to the Tevez and Ronaldo team, and what Giggs and Scholes must think of it compared to 1999. I mean, does Giggs look at the team sheet and think "it's me and Carrick in the centre today. We'd get destroyed by Scholes and Keane. Why does the gaffer pick us together? We might lose."

Anyways. Interesting times. I've been spoilt rotten as a 29yr old fan. Will be interesting to see where we go from here and where we end up in 5yrs.

firebear83

Have to agree with everything that is said in this post, and others. Ando and Clev need to start games, Scholes should be a sub from now on only to come on when 3 nil up to give others rest. Giggs should only be allowed on the pitch to mow it! Hero or not, you still have to put the effort in, and he simply does not do that anymore! Ferdinand was poor again tonight, lazy, careless passing, Carrick gave the ball away and was ponderous in possession, Chico was unable to control the ball and Young is a light weight, too easily pushed off the ball.
My big fear is that Fergie will go into the City game with the same attitude and we will get a tonking by a quick midfield.

17 Nov 2012 20:24:55
Just pathetic.

Ste-Utd

17 Nov 2012 20:21:22
I said playing with Rooney made van Persie better, and KLOOT said he didn't well, today proved my point rvp was not himself as he had no one to link with. Love him or hate him Rooney makes us tick. Can't believe people want him sold!

Caolán.

Not necessarily true. RVP would've played better with Cleverley and Anderson behind him or any other midfielder with an ounce of energy and urgency for that matter.

TK-Red

Caolan

Off course having rooney makes us a better.No team can say they are better off if a player who is supposedly worth 50 million is not available.

I still believe with or without him we are a team with no midfield and will get pasted by better teams. As they say the emperor has no clothes and it is ludicrous to think Rooney can mask our issues in the midfield.

Shahram

17 Nov 2012 20:14:25
The only positive to take from that game is that when Young went out to the right we actually got some pentrating crosses into the box. Not sure why (as a right footed player) he has not been given that opportunity before.

Now for the negatives:
1. As everybody but the Manager seems to appreciate we simply cannot play a midfield two of Carrick, Scholes and Giggs (perm any 2 from 3). We are so slow and ponderous in our build up play that we could never break down a well organised defensive unit.This is exacerbated by the fact that we have a selection of perfectly reasonable players sitting on the bench who could introduce the missing elements to our play.
2. SAF sticks rigidly to a policy of not introducing subs until 60 mins have elapsed (last week against AV being a notable exception) whatever the shambles we are witnessing on the pitch!
3. Without Rooney in the team we lose so much in terms of aggression and heart. We need another Rooney or two in the team.

I'm sure there are many others I could list but just needed to get these off my chest.

Doc Ock

17 Nov 2012 19:59:08
Hi Guys

When we lose I usually leave it a couple of days to post on here to avoid a knee jerk reaction but I have to say that was pure garbage.
Like an earlier poster Giggs was,is and always be a United hero but I'm afraid he is danger of embarrassing himself.His legs have gone and he can't dictate games over 90 minutes anymore.Most fans on here have been calling for Fergie to strengthen the centre of midfield for a few years now
surely the penny has dropped now.Also Giggsy isn't the only one struggling at the moment.Toni is one of my favourite players but he seems to have forgotten how to take players on.Ashley Young is no more than a squad player at best.Michael Carrick just doesn't cut it for me anymore.The likes of Ando,Fletch and Cleverley must wonder what they have to do to get in the team.I think Scholesey still has a part to play mainly as a sub though.I've read on here some fans would be happy if Rooney was sold well I hope tonights performance has changed your minds cos we looked a shadow of a team without him.The only player that had a reasonable game was Rafael imo.As disappointed as I am in tonights performance I still think we have a good chance of winning the league but we rally need to strengthen either in January or the summer.

Bazza The Red

17 Nov 2012 19:55:03
Eds, sorry about the language and blasphemy in the earlier post. It's just that its been a long time where anything, including a football match, has annoyed me so much.

An Dun Red Devil {Ed007's Note -That's a yellow card for you ;-)

You don't need to apologise for blasphemy. It's a victimless crime.

Da Rob Man {Ed007's Note - It's offensive to people, including me. That's all that matters.}

17 Nov 2012 19:49:54
Why is SAF throwing performances and games by playing 39 year old Giggs in the middle for 90 minutes. Just baffling, when the opponent has the ball he might as well not be there.

Dan

For Fergie, Giggs's 1000th milestones much more important than title

17 Nov 2012 19:44:00
Ridiculous team choice to start with, surely he can see that playing 2 midfielders of that sort doesn't work? And I am a massive fan of Scholes, but at a time where we needed a bit of pace and penetration he was the last person I wanted to see and he didn't even f***ing take Giggs off!

I'm an optimistic person when it comes to United, but there just wasn't a single good point about that match. I'm looking forward to KLOOT's comment on this game anyway!

Hoppy

17 Nov 2012 19:35:02
It's glaringly obvious it's the midfield that's killing us in games. Do not understand how Giggs is playing for us, Legend but cannot produce anymore. Our attacks break down as soon he gets it. I personally would like to see Clev and Ando start every game in CM, bit of pace and energy is what we need
SC

17 Nov 2012 19:33:58
I have never been so frustrated with watching a united game like I was today. Awful team selection! I don't understand what goes through SAFs mind when he picks a team like this? We finished with a likes of Scholes, Giggs and Carrick. Really? I thought we were building a team with pace and energy yet we play these 3 against a bottom table team. How much better would this have been...
_________Fletcher________
Valencia__Cleverly__Anderson
___Welbeck___Van Persie___

With Chicharito coming on as a sub in the final 20min!

Nik Legend SA

17 Nov 2012 19:33:30
That was f***ing scandalous! What must the young players in the squad and Under 21s be thinking when they see Giggs putting in a performance like that and Scholes chasing players like he's running in treacle. Fergie is gonna throw away the league like last year by persisting with this same crap every week. There was always going to be a time when we got found out after going behind, I just didn't think it would be against Norwich.

I hope that Fergie now sees the error in his ways and picks the younger players from now on.

An Dun Red Devil

No chance he's as stubborn as they come. So expect more of the same crap.
NoMidfield

Fergie, old retire with your old guard

17 Nov 2012 19:19:58
Hope fergie takes the blame for this. All his fault. But he will probably blame the players

James

17 Nov 2012 19:17:42
Boring football! We are torturing the ball... this is the team that could not defeat a spanish second league team... Some players just shouldn't play anymore

17 Nov 2012 19:25:51
Ferguson. You are to blame for this soulless clueless display. No excuses Ferguson. Four midfielders on bench while we played Giggs. It is truly ridiculous. Any of the Rooney doubters come on now and start telling us we should sell him? Without him we looked crap.
NoMidfield

It is the Midifield even if we had Rooney with Van Persie upfront,it would still be the same.

Which games have you watched this season that you can honestly say our midfield was great and bossed/controlled the game.

This is not a Rooney discussion but a team with such a poor choice of midfielders available for selection.

Shahram

Think i have said enough on this. We just look terrible without Wayne. No one to drag us out today then? If we need a player who a lot on here think "is past his best" , God help!

As good as Chica is, he looks brilliant when he comes on as a sub and relies on his movement against tired defender.

See the "RVP looks better when Wayne's playing" argument. Anyone?

Still a coincidence there then, "Won all matches when Rooney has started". *Sigh*

Deeps...

Deeps

So you think when rooney is back thats us sorted and will be flying. It is a long season and hope you are right.

Shahram

Shahram

Help me with a couple here.

1)Please help me search the words "sorted" or "flying" in my reply. I can only talk about the players we have presently and not talk about the summer of 2013. And the lot we have got, every man and his dog can see that without Wayne we are piss poor. It is not the only match mate, remember the other matches earlier in the season when Rooney was missing?

2)I mentioned RVP because i genuinely think that he is better with Rooney playing with him.

I cant do the Vidal/Ozil/Wanyama thing that you do, why? Because we are a good few months away from the transfer window. For now, if Rooney can pull us through, am sure you and me will be thanking him.

Deeps...

Deeps

No argument that we are a better team with Rooney. However when you post that if Rooney was there he would have pulled us through, I don't agree.

We have been poor with him on the pitch in most games just as much and only introduction of wholesale subs has changed the game and I can argue anderson,rvp or even scholes coming on as subs were the reasons for winning some of those games.

There are those of us who acknowledge he is good/great player and those who worship the guy like he is our savor.

He was on the pitch against villa last week and we were losing and looked useless as a team, so to make a statement "when he starts we win is bs".

He also started against Everton and we lost. It is a team game and we have a midfield that would not be considered in the top 20 in europe.

Finally, yes I do the vidal/wanyama/verrati/ozil/Marchisio etc etc thing because that is what the team needs.

Shahram

Shahram

I said that ever since Rooney came back the thigh gash, we have won every match he has started. That is a FACT and i was not future telling. If you consider a fact as BS, continue doing it if it makes sense.

We have looked poor at times even with him in it. But he has had one telling contribution/key pass/cross etc that has helped us cross the line on numerous ocassions.

8 assists in the campaign so far, isent rocket science to understand - If we need to outscore our opponents we need Wayne Rooney. I just stated the obvious.

Yes we need reinforcements. But we will have to wait for that. You know what i think is BS? When people come on here and say we need to sell our BEST player to reinvest in the team.

Yes there are people like me who "worship" him as you say. I honestly find it better, i mean whats the point of talking him down as soon as there are new players/stars that come in(Read RVP/Kagawa). And i honestly say it based on what he has done over the last 2 seasons.

Ok views differ, so you can continue with your "Rooneys play is a mystery to me stance" and i will keep looking at the facts/goals/assists/figures and how he is the heart beat of my beloved team.

Deeps...

Deeps

The difference between us is that I believe we will win nothing this year even with Rooney at his best with the current midfield.

Whilst you come out after a game like yesterday and decide to make it a WR discussion and post no Rooney/no win, I would ask why a club of our size is getting its ass kicked by a lower tier team that probably has collectively spent 15 million pounds on their midfield and can make our midfield look like a division 2 team.

btw the stats can be very misleading my friend. Chica had scored 7 goals in all competitions and Rooney had scored 3. I am not sure how many from penalties and how many penalties he has missed.

Based on the stats Hernandez should start ahead of Rooney, which I do not believe for one minute is the right way to go, so that is all I have to say about the stats.

This has been an ongoing issue for years now. The difference in class was so jaw dropping when we played Barca in cl final that I was embarrassed. Yes Rooney scored a goal but it was obvious no single player can mask the gap in quality.

2 years later and pretty much the same issues but gotten worse. Whilst you believe he can save the day by playing as midfielder, I don't and don't rate him in that position and believe the club is avoiding fixing the problem by playing him there.

This is a team sport and United as a club is bigger than any single player and you choose to hang your hat on him, I choose to pray we buy proper midfielders and fix it.

Rant over

Shahram

Shahram

The problem is, inspite of the gulf in class that u talk about since the first CL final with Barca, we still have been doing alryt. I mean winning the BPL and then finishing runners up. And i put it down to a major major effort by Wayne Rooney. He pulled us through with average players around him. That is my only point. And when we dont perform, i feel we miss him more than anyone else. If you have a look at the banter/rumour site i am not the only one who thinks it. The problem "we" have is, there are people who want to sell our best player. Thats it.

I will repeat, yes we need inforcements and badly so. But selling our best player to do it? How much sense does that make.

It is a team sport my friend. yet you convenietly seem to ignore the fact that if there is one man who plays for the team, it is Wayne Rooney. All i am doing by "hanging my hat" on him is, showing a little bit of gratitude and not jumping on a different bandwagon everyday.

Rant over

Deeps...

Deeps

Ok at least we can agree that we have the worst midfield around him and 2 top class midfielders will only help the team and maybe even make him play better as there is less pressure to carry the team.

I am pissed with SAF that he thinks by playing rooney in the midfield he can hide how poorly he has managed that area of the team.

I mean it's not like this is a sudden problem that has been brought on to us by injuries.

This has been going on for a few years and frankly put, i am sick of reading that we have interest in another striker or winger. Sure I will take Rodriguez over Nani but what good are great strikers if the 2 CM are invisible.

This is united team issue and not a sell Rooney debate and the truth is I feel we have been very lucky to have won some the games this season and it is lipstick and make up on an ugly girl.

I honestly can not remember the last time that we have played so poorly for such an extended period of time even though the results are a bit deceiving.

Shahram

Shahram

Agreed mate! The midfield we have is poor. Rooney would not be playing there or dropping as deep if we had better players in that position. There can be nothing better than a potent midfield and a RVP/Rooney combo. Sir Alex still ignores the short comings, and yes we are winning ugly, even when we are. Do you think SAF intends to correct it anytime soon? That is a question only he can answer. The forwards can bail us out on 8 out of 10 ocassions may be, but there are times we would look pedestrian and woeful.

Lets hope the January transfer window is a step in the right direction. I am in complete agreement with you on the performances so far. This has continued for far too long

Deeps... {Ed004's Note - Would love to see Fergie buy Cabaye/Moutinho and someone like Vidal or Wanyama in January. Can't see it happening though}

Ed004... I think Vidal wont move. Seems like a rare loyal bloke to me.(I may be wrong). As for Wanyama, i don't know if he would be cup tied. I remember someone saying one player can be registered.

In an ideal world, a midfield 3 of Vidal/Cabaye/Kagawa would be jaw dropping. 4-3-3!!

Deeps... {Ed004's Note - I would play a 4231. I think it is the way forward. Look how well Dortmund and to a lesser extent West Brom are performing with it. I would go all out for Baines and play him behind Kagawa as I believe we could see a partnership similar to Piennar and Baines which is arguably one of the best if not the best in the league at times.}

17 Nov 2012 19:24:40
disgraceful ... ho many sh1t teams are we going to make look good..

scholes, giggs please retire because you aren't doing your names any justice.. carrick, well hand in a transfer request mate.. your not good enough for this club.

too many times i have witnessed this sh1t, even when we win we still look sh1t..

17 Nov 2012 19:41:03
Think you mean you're making a lot of average teams look good, this won't be the last time you get found wanting this season, Like Smalling said the smell of fear you're gonna win nowt again this season is making this page stink....and boy do you guys no it.

Dixie Normous

17 Nov 2012 19:00:30
Giggsy, you have thrilled me for years, had me on the edge of my seat, jumping off it in delirium. You are the reason my son wants to play left wing.

But the time has come mate, to bow down to the inevitable creeping of Father Time, and take a well-deserved back seat, because you're in serious danger of having some of our so-called supporters turn on you the way they have on Evra and Scholes at times.

You don't deserve that. Stand down now, while we still think of you as the curly-haired flying machine, that's been tearing teams apart for two decades.

StevieK

Stevie, its all on ferguson mate. Unfortunatly, i think its his time to step down.

Mick

Giggy needs to ask himself what did he contribute tonight,the answer was absolutely nothing im gobsmacked that fergie hasnt learnt his lesson and played him for a full 90 minutes in midfield absolute joke
johndenton

Stevie, its all on ferguson mate. Unfortunatly, i think its his time to step down.

Mick

Giggy needs to ask himself what did he contribute tonight,the answer was absolutely nothing im gobsmacked that fergie hasnt learnt his lesson and played him for a full 90 minutes in midfield absolute joke
johndenton

Very wel said mate. Same should apply to our saf who continuously keep making this horrible decisions..
I still cant forget inclusion of park who hasnt played at all above in form welback.
Same today.. He always change keepers in name of physical play.. Cant he see chicha is also not fit for physical game? He has just been greedy nd choose him because he has announced it publicaly.
Shame of a game today except defending.
Rodio17

I know Mick, it's not Giggs fault - he's hardly going to turn round and say, as a professional footballer, 'sorry boss, I know you've picked me, but please pick someone else'.

Who am I to argue with Fergie, but his unwillingness/inability to see that the midfield needs energy against hard-working teams like Norwich, is really baffling.

Carrick and Giggs just didn't make sense.


StevieK

StevieK

you would never turn on any of our players would you not ??

Devil Dust.

Giggsy has to do a Neville. Stevie, completely in agreement with you.

Deeps...

Devil Dust - who do you mean mate?

I'll give every player who pulls on a Utd shirt my support when they're out on that pitch, unless I think they're not putting the effort in, which is indefensible.

If there's constructive criticism to be made after a game, fair enough - they're big enough and getting paid enough to take it. That hardly equates with 'turning on them'.

If you're referring to Rooney, there's a big difference between not liking someone because of their off-field behaviour and what they tried to do to the club, and talking about a Utd great like he's a piece of crap, just because his talent is on the wane.

StevieK

17 Nov 2012 18:57:55
SAF has lost his nerve. Why oh why do we get Carrick & Giggs in CM when we have Cleverley & Anderson fit? He has lost his nerve with younger players. Sad.

Totally agree!

RebelRed

17 Nov 2012 18:56:15
Ok 1-0... We need to bring on some players who can drive forward...

Let's bring on Scholes and Welbeck, they are on top form and would do great!

Who needs an attacking Anderson when you have 38 year old Scholes?

I hope I am wrong but this game will not be a famous comeback if we continue to play like this.

-JakeW

Jake, its common sense. We lack pace in our attack, we take off Valencia and throw in Scholes!

We need a goal, we take off the best natural goalscorer in the premiership and put on welbeck, who cant hit a barn door.

And more importantly, we have experience. 36 is the average age of our midfield when scholes came on. Sad, really sad. Ferguson never was a good coach in terms of tactics, but his choices these days are sh**.

Mick

17 Nov 2012 18:55:39
And still saf is stubborn in not playing any midfield while Giggs plays. Why?
NoMidfield

17 Nov 2012 18:53:53
Im getting seriously get h***ed of with fergie and his team selections.

And the problem is that i think that only when we get beat will he change things around. BUT I DONT WANT TO LOSE

JAMES

17 Nov 2012 19:09:52
Way to go Fergie, that rubbish team selection is going to cost us today. I guess he was saving Ando and Cleverly for the big game midweek, oh my bad it means nothing. We need a goal and he leaves Giggs out there and takes out Chico, amazing.

17 Nov 2012 19:06:40
78th min and still no sign of ando or cleverly!!!!!!

James

17 Nov 2012 19:04:06
what has Giggs done to stay on the pitch?

17 Nov 2012 19:02:20
We miss Rooney but start with giggs.
God knows what fergie expects ffs

Stamufc

17 Nov 2012 18:50:49
Can someone explain to me why Fergie has not made a change after 62 minutes in a game where we have been crying out for Anderson since the first minute.

17 Nov 2012 18:42:05
Like i said last week very boring football, our only option seems to be to pass to the wingers both of whom can't cross or skin a player.
put on welbeck, anderson and scholes and play a 433 formation.
sulei

17 Nov 2012 18:26:54
We have no pace about our play and look unconvincing going forward. Giggs and Carrick should not be picked ahead of Fletcher, Cleverley or Anderson. Anderson has been in very good form and still does not get picked.

17 Nov 2012 18:25:44
Giggs must be doing something unbeleivable in training because he is playing sh** during games and still gets starts. Im guetting sick of his " experiance ". Ferguson is looking for a reason to stick with the oldies for some reason.

Mick

17 Nov 2012 18:21:56
For gods sake put Ando on!

17 Nov 2012 18:11:11
Why don't Norwich just score? Only way United can get motivated.

Peter

I hope not as They are quite well organized and might do to us what they did to Arsenal.

Shahram

A day to forget. I am so f...... upset that I probably will not make any sense. I guess most neutrals will say order restored the best team in the league finally leading the table. What a f.... pathetic performance.

If this is the best we have to offer in the middle of the park, I hope SAF has a sanity check and the balls to spend 40 million for 2 midfielders in January and stop playing this rubbish.

Shahram

17 Nov 2012 17:56:55
Ashley Young is so frustrating some times. I have noticed in the last few weeks he struggles when the crowd is on his back and when he gets booed or chanted out of the game but when he plays well he looks so dangerous. I think he is a very good player but just cant hack the pressure of a United shirt.

What do you want him to do they are packing the wings with 2 or 3 players every time the ball goes out there as there is no one in the middle of the pitch that they have to worry about.

SAF hopefully can see this is not working. Norwich look more dangerous than us going forward.

Shahram

Loose balls are falling in center and there is no united player even in the 10 yards of it.. Hope fergie has marked this also.. I guess long ball or set piec wil do the trick as we neither have player in the center to attack or defend. Dont know what they learn in training except passing sideways
Rodio17

Rodio

We have no pace in the middle of the pitch and the midfielders don't get up the pitch to support the play as we will get run over in the counter attacks.

It makes the wingers look like rubbish and the strikers are getting no service. Most of the time there is almost no one in the box to cross to as the strikers are where you would expect your midfielders to be. Even when they are in the box its 2 striker against 5 or 6 defenders.

Towards the end of the game when we had the team pressing you saw a glimpse of how wide open we are and no one can track back on the counter. Our team has no pace and old legs.

I know SAF is a great manager but the responsibility relies solely on his shoulder for letting this team midfield deteriorate to this level.

If you look at the history of the club he was blessed with a rich bunch of midfielders coming through the youth ranks Scholes, Beckham, Butt, Giggs and since then he has had an awful record when buying midfielders and wasted more money on one flop after another flop.

Shahram

17 Nov 2012 17:26:44
At least there is a reason for De Gea no playing.

Glad the reason is not the "rotating keepers" excuse

James

17 Nov 2012 16:56:16
This line-up doesn't look impressive! Giggs and Carrick in the middle, disaster waiting to happen.

Lets hope for the best!

-JakeW

The manager just doesn't understand, give youth a chance is laughable when Giggs is starting in the middle. No wonder Pogbal left.

With no Rooney to drop into midfield, this looks bad. Van Persie to bail us out?

May be Giggsy can roll back the years and just shut my feckin mouth.

Wishful thinking

Deeps...

It is just laughable at this point the way Giggs is picked ahead of players like Ando and Powell. I really am beginning to detest seeing the name of Giggs now when he is picked to play. I honestly believe he must be very, very vain if he thinks he can keep up with everyone else. I think he is ruining his good name and demeaning all his past glories by continuing to play at such a poor level.
It is pathetic that SAF keeps picking him - I'm getting so, so f*****g sick of it now. It just beggars belief!!

A very frustrated J Bones.

17 Nov 2012 16:50:51
Lindegaard; Rafael, Smalling, Rio, Evra; Carrick, Giggs; Valencia, Young, van Persie, Hernandez.

No rooney or nani
Sulei

Yikes why gigs and no anderson or cleverly.

17 Nov 2012 16:45:50
Giggs and Carrick with Valencia and young. Why do we insist on playing Giggs in these games. Wouldn't it be better to play Anderson and Cleverley with Carrick and only one winger. Here we go again!
NoMidfield

17 Nov 2012 13:33:26
Not United related but I have to say what a clown Adebayor is..... Spurs were walking all over Arsenal and now they are getting .

This spurs side is a very good team and when Dembele and parker return will beat a lot of the top teams.

Bale on the left side for us would make us probably the best side in europe going forward.

Shahram

Shahram... Are you joking? Bale is so over rated every time he comes up against a half decent right back he struggles. I do agree that Dembele is a class player though and wanted us to go in for him.

I have not seen him struggle to be honest and every time i watch him, he is a scary winger on the left for most teams. He is definitely better than anyone we have on the left wing currently.

Shahram

How can you say we would be the best team going forward when barcer , madrid have better players in forward positions than we do dont be a typical arrogant united fan who thinks we are better than we actually are messi on his own scored more or around about the same as van persie an rooney put togeather so answer me that ?

dio

17 Nov 2012 11:37:35
Ok transfers:

I think by summer the following will be gone from the club:

Amos, Evra, Scholes, Giggs, Macheda, King, Brady, Wootton and one of Ferdinand & Vidic.

Amos is a decent enough keeper but he's at an age where he wants and needs to be playing and is getting a taste of that at Hull. And Johnstone is a better keeper.

Evra, well we all know he's in decline. I also believe by summer next year he has just 12 months on his contract and i can't really see us renewing him. He's on top wages and him off the bill wouldn't be a bad thing. Not sure Fabio/ Butter can replace him so i would go all out to get Baines who could do the job for 4 years whilst Blackett develops. Wouldn't go near Cashley for all the tea in China.

Scholes, i think will retire (again) but as for who to replace him i haven't a clue and i think the same can be said for the management. Its a case of what role do we want the replacement to fulfill, a depp lying ball pinger like current Scholes or an attacking goal getter like old Scholes. Powell may replace old Scholes.

Giggs, well i'm more hoping he will go, but i can see him signing on again. I get that he's a good influence in the dressing room but its gone on too far now. As a centre midfielder he doesn't need replacing, we have plenty of kids wjo can step up for that role. But as a left footed winger we do need someone in, whether he retires or not.

Macheda & King, neither of them have a future here and are better off going. We have Will Keane and Henriquez who will replace them.

Brady again i don't see having a long term future here and the younger kids will replace him.

Wooton, i think Mike Keane is better and given the ages of Smalling & Evans i think one of them will go and its more likely to be Wootton.

Now the centrebacks is the toughest call. Both could go or both could stay. Will Vidic ever properly come back or will little niglges keep putting him out? If that Russian club truly offers 20 million could we turn it down? Personally i think we would be mad not to take that kind of money on offer. Rio this season has struggled at times, but again he's an influence on the dressing room. He wouldn't need replacing as much as Vidic would as Smalling is ready made. Whereas Vidic doesn't really have a replacement at the club. I don't see Jones as a centrehalf and think Keane needs more experience. Smalling, Evans, Keane we would definitley need another centreback in there if Rio stays.

I agree wiith everything you said exept Brady leaving. He could be a solid squad player.

Mick

17 Nov 2012 11:01:43
gagus who are you to tell me to shut up. it is a banter site. kloot is a person i understand. he is slated here when he tells the truth. now i am told to shut up by gagus. why dont you set up tour own site where everything is rosy. i lived thtough tough times with those b*****ds winning everything. i know a certin amoumt of our "fans" would be supporting them if they would still be winning, especially the younger ones.
i will always support UNITED no matter what. i gave up foreign holidays to pay for my season ticket and have money to go to games. some of my mates did not. went on holidays not games. now when i go back to manchester they dont shut up about football, and the old days, makes me sick. they did not go to anfield in the 80s and put up with there s**t. we are number 1 in england end of.
next we have to sort out europe. 3 european cups not enough for our club. especially with those b*****ds having 5. through thick or thin UNITED is my team. dont have any other teams! dan

I told you to shut up, Dan, because this whole site is sick and tired of talking about this topic and what a real fan is. I appreciate you are very passionate about United, as am I, but there is no need to come on here and debate the credibility of the supporters. We are all on this great site to talk and discuss all things United, yet here we are trying to justify why we support the club. We are all in the one family, and like Kloot said, all families have arguments, so let's move on and forget about this.

G.A.G.U.S

17 Nov 2012 08:27:25
Hi Guys

I have read with interest some of your reasons for being Manchester United Fans.

Over the years I have concluded that the main reason there are so many United fans are these.

1) Trafford Park- In the early part of the last century, this was considered to be the biggest industrial estate in Western Europe. Manchester United identified a market of people who worked there from not only Manchester but neighbouring towns and all over England and thus seized the opportunity to move closer so the people who worked there would have a football club to go and watch after work on a Saturday afternoon. Like myself no matter where you live you usually follow you dads influence on who you are going to support, so this will be one of the reasons we have fans from outside Manchester, more than City have.

2) Munich Air Disaster- Well that speaks for itself. With all due respect to Torino FC who themselves had an air disaster, Manchester United were considered to be on the verge of something really special built by Sir Matt. That was cruelly ripped away from us. We could have broke the Real Madrid domination of Europe. Fans from all over the world acknowledged this and felt our grief.

3) George Best- Footballs first superstar and pin up boy, who in the country didn't want to go and watch him play wherever he was playing. This created more fans who just carried on being United fans

4) Football Hooliganism in the early 70's- Wherever Manchester United fans went in the early 70's especially in Division 2 trouble was guaranteed. We are talking about a generation now who been brought up on their dads war stories, who themselves had no war to fight. Thus the tribalism of Hooliganism at Football was born. Many clubs like Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Millwall, Brentford etc from the south and smaller clubs around us in the North couldn't wait for there bi annual ruck with United, they wanted to fight every week and the only way to do that was to become a United fan. Their offspring have followed suit, I go back to the influence of your dad. Another reason for our out of Manchester support.

5) Success of the past 20 years- Well we know as do City and Chelsea, that success was built up gradually, with hard work and the preservation of tradition as well i.e At least one player from the youth system, plays in every first team game. There was financial assistance but not to the extent of just throwing a load of money at something like the aforementioned clubs, that wins you no respect. Respect is earned and ours was, look at the difference in gates.

I am sure people have differing views on why they themselves became reds. Mine is probably influenced by my Dad, being brought up in Manchester, nicer kit than dull sky blue of City, most people who lived around me supported United, most people in School supported United and the fact we won the odd FA cup in the 70's and 80's

Mike the Moston Red

:)

Mike. Agreed. I remember a pic of me as a kid with a Georgie Best T shirt, flares and helmet hairdo in the 70s.

17 Nov 2012 07:30:20
The sale of Nani and retirement of Giggs and Scholes and maybe the possible transfer of Rio... I'd bring in Wanyama and Vidal to sit infront of the defence. Hummels at the back with Vidic or whoever's not injured and with Giggs possible retirement and Nanis sale I'd replace with Ince and Rodriguez...
De Gea
Rafael Hummels Vidic Evra
Wanyama Vital
Cleverly Rooney Rodriguez/Kagawa
RVP
But I'd love it if united brought in people like Lewandowski Rues Gotze Gundogan and just raid Borussia Dortmond and also young champiomship talents like Will Hughes and Wilfred Zaha

17 Nov 2012 00:32:51
I was 5-6 yrs old and ray Wilkins, Kevin Moran etc were playing for us when i first started supporting united and remember all the stick i got from lfc fans at he time. i was growing up in Cheshire up near runcorn and was one of not many reds devil fans around there. Then i remember Robson, strachen , Olsen, bailey, Moses, mgrath, whiteside. so i know what it is like when we werent winning much and that our biggest game was against lfc. When fergie came in and replaced atkinson none of us knew how succesfull he would be. i have seen us go from a mid table to top half team to the dominant force in the league and am still astounded by how well fergie has run the club. i know that there have been some dodgy team selections at times and that we always seem to do things the hard way at times instead of just killing teams off or seeming to think that some games are a lot easier than they are but in the end fergie always seems to find a way to get the best out of the players he has. The man is a genius and is the greatest manager of all time in my eyes. At the moment he is rebuilding the team and squad so that he is able to challenge for all trophies and send a message to all the teams that a rich sugar daddies to spend as much as they want on whoever they want. or as chelsea did buy everyone so that no-one else can. now city are trying to do the same thing and are not thinking about the good of the game. look at how many clubs are going under at the moment. I hope that the premier league and uefa do what they say they are going to do and make clubs only operate within the revenue that they are able to generate. I f this happens then we will be one of the best for being able to buy and pay players the fee's that there will be as we generate a great revenue with sales sponsorship etc. i know people doe not like the glazers but the revenue that they are generating is immense. i just hope that within the next two transfer windows we buy some top class talent in the cm/cdm/box-2-box mould as we desperately need in that area as well as a cb, or give the youth a chace if thay are as good as we are told.
At the end of it Fergie is a legend a one off a genius trust him and support our great club he will always find a way to create a team that will beat these money bags teams like Fergie says money doesnt automatically win you trophies creating a team with team ethics and desire does.

sorry for the long post but our club is a great club and we all need to support our team not put it down. Cheats2005

I was reading through the page and damn! You people are old!! Are some of you using walking stick? Aren't any young posters on this page?
FEH!