Manchester United Banter Archive October 17 2012

17 Oct 2012 19:49:14
wow Kloot i dnt know wot is more worrying, you being a united fan, or for a while the united scouts thought james milner would be a gd signing!
Clev was played out of position to get gerrard in the team. ironically its very much like the situation scholes found himself in when he played for england.
as for rooney you try playing in the hole in front of milner with 2 sitting midfielders behind him. for rooney to have a gd game they need to play well to give him the ball, clevs tried but has orders to track piszek their RB, thus he kept coming in and out of the game.
The fact rooney scored shows, that even when the team is playing bad (rooney included) he can still do what a forward is men't to and that is score (even if it was a bit lucky) DAMN give Cleverly a break! Hes still learning top level football and has had less than 50 games i would guess at that level and in that time he has broken into uniteds first team and has become what looks like a england regular, that not to bad is it?
Chris the REDman

Can we stop with all the 'he's still learning spiel' about Cleverley? Granted, he is young and relatively inexperienced, but he is playing for United and England which demands certain standards. I really hope he develops into a top class player but right now, he's not. As for Rooney, the self proclaimed big man superstar should be able to grab hold of a game. The only thing to be said is that the whole team looks pretty poor all round. Maybe it was just one of those days.

AJH

Hi all here goes, 23 isn't really that young for a footballer, most 23 year olds nowadays have been in the first team at there clubs for about 4 seasons, cleverly obviously has talent but as a neutral, I only see him as a squad player for England, I disagree that he was put out wide to accommodate gerrard, he's the captain so makes no sense, if anything I would of played him in the middle instead of carrick who was awful today who just isn't international quality

His age is not the major factor IMO, his experience of playing at the top level is more akin to a promising 20 or 21 year old. He's not played much at this level for a 23 yr old because of 1) injuries and 2) he came through our academy and therefore had to be blooded at a lower level first

Having said that my opinion of Cleverly is he looks promising but still has a lot of improving to do to become a very influencial CM who can boss games. He will unlikely ever be 'world class' but looks like he could become a very useful squad player or even decent in a 3 man midfield, alongside a DM boss (e.g. Wanyama) and productive AM (Kagawa)

In terms of England he may not be great in every game but unless you give him time to build from experience he will never get there. Hodgson needs to play some of the youngsters now if they're to be ready for Brazil. Cleverly was played out of position tonight by all accounts but still good experience for him even if he has to learn from his mistakes on this occasion

Gav

Can I ask you guys what heights Didier Drogba had scaled aged 23? Let me tell you, he was still playing for Le Mans. How about David Villa? He was still at Real Zaragoza. Xavi didn't develop into the player he is now until he was well into his mid 20's. Players develop at different times and lets not forget this is Cleverley's first full season in the first team. I'm not saying he is the next Paul Scholes but the lad will really come into his own over the next 18 months. Then we can decide whether he is good enough. As for the fact he passes sideways, perhaps he isn't being given the right options ahead of him? Perhaps SAF is putting emphasis on keeping possession? Don't write him off just yet.

TK-Red

Age seems to be a big thing on here with footballers. We won't sign anyone over the age of 27 as they offer no resale value but we don't seem to be happy to give the younger players a chance. So what the hell are we supposed to do?

Cleverley is a talented young player who is starting to show real promise, he seems hard working and grounded and could be a top player for us yet some people seem ready to shoot him down before he's even played a full season for us. For gods sake give the kid a chance.

I watch a hell of a lot of football and i closely follow young talented players and imo Cleverley has all the attributes needed to be a top player. He has excellent vison and passing, is hard working, not afraid to put the tackles in, he has very good movement and awearness, he is comfortable in possession and has great technique. Some short sighted people will say he plays backward or sideways passes, but he can only pass to his team mates. if they are not in a decent position or one which he make a pass too then he has to go with the safe option. This is footballing intelligence not a weakness on his part but another strength. It is the team set up and tactics that let him down.

Personally i think some people want Cleverley to fail as they blame him for us not buying a top midfielder. So if he fails then it some how proves them right and Sir Alex wrong.

Look at it this way Nani allways looks to go forward and play the forward pass even if it's not on, he also has the flair that maybe Cleverley lacks. So would you rather have a team of Cleverley's or a team of Nani's?

Shappy

If you wanna know if cleverly is a good player or not.watch united vs bercelona friendly.the only player who did not play that match was messi.the whole barca team played and cleverly bossed d midfield like a pro.watch united vs city community shield.cleverly was the difference we won that match.so those who don't see anything wonderful about the kid is unbeliveable.the boy is only been in the first team this season.beginning of last season he was on fire,before he got injured. Piece

17 Oct 2012 18:04:10
Wonder will the press and sly sports be as hard on joe hart as they always are with David de gea with crosses that leads to goals. Hart was shocking for the Poland goal, DDG would be slaughted if it was him. I AM STOUT

Simple, De Gea plays for manchester united and Joe Hart doesnt. Therefore, De gea will get twice as much stick for the same mistake.

Mick

Won't be mentioned mate. For someone who is supposed to be the best in the world, no one will bat an eyelid. Also as it goes Hart has the worst ball retention percentage from long kicks in the Premier League I once saw, he's still the best in the world though, honestly. Dropped a clanger today and against Madrid he was beaten at his near post and by one straight at him, still best in the world. I dont want to sound like a Liverpool fan lol, but the pro-Hart propaganda is ridiculous, as is the pro-Cole agenda, who has been nowhere near the level of Baines for a couple of seasons.

Are you stout or just short and fat? I AM KLOOT

Or perhaps they'll mention it was out of character for Hart...whereas for our golden boy it's pretty much every cross. Yes' yes, you call complain and slag me off but whilst it pains me to say so, I'd take Hart any day of the week.

AJH
AJH

I'm neither just wanted to get noticed like some people, I'm a fan of yours kloot, (well sometimes) I AM STOUT

Joe hart is so so much better than ddg, hart hardly puts afoot wrong where as when crosses come into the box u know that 9/10 ddg is prone to error

TBF Hart doesn't make mistakes that often and usually he plays very very well. He is also better than DDG. That said, I do feel our keeper gets unfair press sometimes - he made quite a few clangers when he arrived then improved a lot and now when he makes the odd half mistake (natural for such a youngster) many seem to forget that he has improved an awful lot already since arriving a year ago. Let's just hope he keeps improving and irons out the slight flappiness ; )

Gav

17 Oct 2012 17:40:55
Hey Kloot, if De Gea made that mistake.......

G.A.G.U.S

I totally agree but put your hand on your heart and tell me who you would rather have between the sticks for us. And he would have been ours for 300k. I AM KLOOT

I would have to take Hart over DDG tbh. However for every missed opportunity like Hart there is a majestic 'find' like Ronny!

Gav

17 Oct 2012 16:48:11
Hideto takatashi, we're suddenly linked to this man. The press won't stop at anything to sell papers. I would rather stick with wanyama.

Stanod

17 Oct 2012 16:20:25
james milner is shockingly sh1t..

JK92

He is certainly giving heskey a run for his money. Cant quite figure out who is worse. Exactly how is this guy playing for england, i have no idea.

Mick

Heskey vs Caroll
Who is worse?

19-20 MUFC

18 Oct 2012 00:12:30
jokes aside, Heskey was a technically sound and very skillful player. I remember when controled a long pass, stormed past an algerian defender ( ok just moved sideways ), came up with a brilliant way to dribble that didnt quite work : His own version of stepovers ( i guess that's what he was trying to do, not sure ) and then sent a glorious effort straight to row z. Unbeleivable

On a more serious note i would say heskey is worst just for longevity. He has been absolute cr@p for 20 years. Legend.

Mick

17 Oct 2012 14:46:50
I am not convinced the England line-up is a 4-4-2 with Cleverley as a left winger. Don't get me wrong he can play there and did so for the U21's, but for me he will be playing on the left side of a diamond. Milner on the right, Gerrard at the base and Rooney at the top of the diamond with Defoe ahead of him.

Sydney!

What about Carrick then? If anything it seems to be Gerrard and Carrick sitting deep with Cleverley in front, Defoe up top, Rooney doing what he pleases and Milner being his usual bag of sh!t.

TK-Red

Oops, meant a diamond with Gerrard at the top and Carrick at the base. But to be fair it looks more like a 4-5-1 with Rooney, Carrick, Clevz, Milner and Gerrard all playing in central midfield. Have to say Lewandowski is impressive.

Sydney!

He looks lively doesn't he and the kind of player that fits our (desired) style of play. Have to say, I'm not at all impressed with England today. We could really do with Ashley Young back then move Ox over to the right hand side, then we might start to look dangerous. Watching Milner try to get from one end of pitch to the other is like watching my old dog chase rabbits. He means well and I'm sure he thinks he can catch them but it just makes you feel bad for him.

TK-Red

17 Oct 2012 11:57:34
Just like to say I hate Fabregas with a passion now.

I had 10 on Belgium -1, Holland -1, Ireland -1 England (void), Hungary, Italy and Spain coming in at 3'200+.

After England odds were taken off it was a winning of 1600+ and fu**ing Giroud who cant hit a barn door equalises in the 93rd bloody minute!!

Ive not calmed down yet!

We better sign Cabaye soon!

Jono

Mate I had £5 on a 16 game accumulator that was thrown away by Germany. Until they decided to go home on the hour mark I was on to win abut £700. Bloody Germans.

TK-Red

Unlucky mate.

My coupon had kept England on it as it was confirmed early enough as the next day so at least 2 teams goosed it.

Jono

Same here mate, I had England too. I'm not sure if that makes me feel better or not though.

TK-Red

17 Oct 2012 09:19:27
Does anyone ever wonder why the English teams and FA don't take a leaf out of the Spanish leagues and allow certain reserve teams to feature in the lower leagues. This would allow the player's parents club to keep a close eye on the player develop against fully grown men without having to send them on loan across the country, Barcelona and Real Madrid as a prime example (Real Madrid Castila and Barcelona B) allow players to develop and get consistent game time before being introduced in to the first team. Just imagine this sort of team in League 1 or 2 or even championship football. This would be 1 year down the line from now.

------------------Amos--------------------

Vermijl---Keane---Wooton---Blackett

---------Petrucci---Tunnicliffe-----------

------Cole----Petrucci------Lingard----

----------------Keane--------------------

Subs/Backup: Daehli,Pereira,Johnstone,Brady,Macheda,King,Wilson,Love,Rudge, Powell, Veseli, Thorpe

Yes it wouldn't be he easiest because of the phyiscal nature of the leagues, but it would be much more entertaining seeing these young talents compared to some of the teams that don't particulary play great football in the lower leagues

RedKnight

The reason why our league system is far more competitive throughout the levels is because we don't allow this. The second league in Spain is half full with 'B' teams. It's great for the best teams, Barca, Madrid etc, and ultimately the national team, but it harms other clubs way too much to justify it IMO.

What would happen if that team finishes in the promotion places in their given division? Who's place do they take away to give EPL clubs a place in League 2 or 1? There are far more professional clubs in England than Spain so it would be unfair to to take away some of their livelihoods to make room for "bigger" clubs. The loan system is just fine if used properly IMO and pushing these players into competitive football too early could have a negative effect on the way they play and develop technically speaking.

TK-Red

The idea has been around for a long time but it seems impossible for the FA to pull it off. There are some high calibre teams in the lower divisions ( not, leeds... ) and adding B teams for the big clubs will cause relegation for these teams, for example at championship level, and then other teams would be relegated from league 1 and so on.

And which teams would be allowed to have a B team? All premier league teams? and what if the team is relegated? Do they lose their B team ? its a bit complicated tbh esecially if the B team qualifies to the premier league. Do they get a B team of their own ?

I would prefer if the FA works on developing the under 21 league with better TV coverage so it becomes more competitive.

Mick

Oh yeah you listed Petrucci twice.

Mick

Petrucci must be really good to play in 2 positions...... hehe

but yes agree with the statement and it would also aid their development

Or expand it further and have a European league for the b teams better exposure to the players to cultures and styles of football