Manchester United Banter Archive October 17 2013

17 Oct 2013 20:50:25
In 2010/11 Nani was United's MVP playing on the right. He's still a fixture in the Portuguese team. To suggest that he isn't talented is ridiculous. As far as I'm concerned he was a player who was undermined by SAF who opted to bring in Valencia, a player with nowhere near the talent, and move Nani to the left. Granted, Valencia offers better defensive cover.

SAF was fantastic but he had become belligerent, cantankerous and out of touch with the modern game. Half his recent signings were inadequate, his relationships with key players like Rooney were obviously strained, he failed to replace his aging or feeble midfielders, and lost his best young ones in Pogba and Morrison, and left back Fryers.

His retirement was due, and maybe overdue.

In the meantime we need to give Moyes a chance to rehabilitate Nani, as he seems to have done with Rooney, because frankly, without Nani's creativity we will remain sadly lacking in that department.

I ask the question again. When was the last game that nani turned the match our way. Let's stop the sentimental talk and actually talk about facts.

The only one we lost was pogba the other 2 were never staying for lots of reasons, ravels run ins with the law and not turning up for training and fryers because he wasnt good enough.nani has frustrated the life out of me but if he can get a run of games and his old form of 2 years ago happy days

Nomidfield you either have a short memory or only just started supporting utd? 2011 Community Sheild 2-0 down to city who score twice including the winner?
Nani won utd players player made the PFA team and nominated young player in 2010 2011 he was injuries the following year.
Like many I am frustrated he as not recovered that form again but the question is why? Confidence from not playing regular maybe!

Well I will not comment on the other parts. but
i have mentioned it in my earlier posts a few months back that nani is batter suited to right side but he don't offer much defensively, and as rafael is still raw in lot many areas SAF has provided him cover in opting for valencia. so he sifted nani to left where evra was/is also aweful in defending more than rafael inrecent years.
so in both the way nani suffered on his game and form. I can dare say if he has more established/ defence minded full back behind him, he would come out differently.

remember carlo ancelloti said bravly about ronaldo that he don't expect him to defend at all as he has plenty to offer in attack, and that's where he wants him to concentrate. we have defenders to do defending properly.
so because out rubbish/develpoing full backs our wingers are suffering specially nani.

that are my thoughts on nani situation.

No other top team would be giving this many opportunities to a 27yr old player to 'come good'.

He's been at the club long enough. Every year, we have the same hopes for Nani and every year, we're talking about selling him in the summer.

Every summer, nobody offers to meet our valuation, which speaks volumes about how every other club perceives Nani and his worth.

I was mortified when we gave him a new 5yr deal. What he has done to earn that? He hasn't improved in the slightest, and don't give it the 'we can sell him for more money' nonsense - we'd need a willing buyer first.

Same goes for Anderson, same hopes and failures every season.

Barca, RM, Bayern, none of these clubs would still be hanging onto players like this who have not delivered the goods for many years.

The worst part is, Nani is still more effective than Valencia and Young. Which highlights just how below-par our wingers are right now.

I think the situation with our wingers and Nani's new contract speaks volumes about the financial constraints and transfer policy at the club. Nani is currently our best winger, but that says more about his competition than his ability. He obviously had bags of potential but when you're still talking about potential at 27, it's unlikely that the lad will ever become a top player.

Moyes would have been aware that his wing options were a below par, but he didn't make any attempt to bring in new wingers. In fact, he refuses to give the new winger SAF brought in a single minute of game time. Last summer we looked at Hazard and Moura, we couldn't compete for these players so we eventually signed Zaha. Now it appears that Zaha is either (a) not ready for the top flight, or (b) Moyes has a personal problem with the lad. Either way we are stuck with the same sub standard wingers that we had last year, worse still we have begun rewarding them with new contracts.

As far as I can see we have far from 'unlimited' transfer funds, and Moyes had to make do with what he had, same with Anderson and Evra. At some point people are going to have to recognise that the dead weight we are stuck with is because the owners are skimping on transfers.

Acker, I wish I was that young mate, but I started supporting united in the 60's and I doubt you were born then!
Nani did play very well in the charity shield against city two years ago. So one good game in two years, is that the standard?
He's played a few times this year, has he been sensational in your opinion? Has his crossing been Beckham like, his dribbling like ronaldo, decision making like scholes, speed like robben? That is the problem, he doesn't have any of these attributes. If he had two of them then we'll be in business.
So take your blinkers off.

Danny, you're spot on.

Dany we spent 45 million since jan.

Could have has Coentrao and any 2 of these Erickson/wanyama/capoue/thiago/strootman/paulinho just a name few for what we spent on fellaini.

I wonder why we spent 15 million on Zaha if he is not good enough to get even on the bench. For that kind of money the player is usually a major contributor to the first 11.


I do agree we have some spending restrictions like many clubs but at the end of the day the managers are deciding what we need and we have bought but maybe not what most of us would have liked to see.

{Ed002's Note - You don't understand the transfer process at all, nor how clubs need to buy players to suit there needs. I assume you play lots of soccer manager games - I think we have a page for it.}

"nor how clubs need to buy players to suit there needs."

Have to disagree with you if you think Zaha and Fellaini is what United needed the most and can think of many better ways we could have spent those sums and definitely not another Winger.

You are absolutely right, I am not a transfers expert but love my football and watch enough of it to have a view on players and what I would like to see at my club. {Ed002's Note - It is statements like "Could have has Coentrao and any 2 of these Erickson/wanyama/ capoue/thiago/ strootman/paulinho" which fail miserably - it is simply rubbish arising from a game playing mentality.}

17 Oct 2013 12:32:06
I see some are now questioning Smalling and whether he has the potential and the confidence. What is he the new Evans.
I will say this now and everyone remember this, Chris Smalling will be one of, if not the best centre half in the World! I agree he lacks the confidence of some players, but the poor lad doesn't know what position he's playing.
Someone down the page said Jones will be twice the player Smalling is. Jones is a tremoundous player but what in, a jack of all trades. If he was so good he wouldn't need to be shifted so much, would he.
Also Smalling played very well for England the other day, linked up play very well with Townsend, couple of very smart interceptions, and ultimately he was part of a defence that kept a clean sheet!
I would like to hear the opinons of Cleverly from these fans.

If you think smalling is going to be the best centre half in the world, then you must be watching a different player from me.
He had a bad injury and that has stalled his progress, but even then, he will never be a top centre half. He is cumbersome, does not feel comfortable in possession, and his passing is below average.
He doesn't score enough goals from set pieces.
So how is he going to be the best in the world?

I agree that Smalling could go on to be a top centre back, but you contradict yourself with your own statement. You say "the poor lad doesn't know what position he's playing" because he has played in more than one position. Then you say about Jones "if he was that good he wouldn't need to be shifted about so much, would he". So basically, both players have been played out of position, but Jones is just a "jack of all trades", as you call him. Why does that same argument not apply for Smalling?
I think both players, along with Evans can go on to be great centre backs for us, and may get their chances sooner rather than later.

Jones should have come to Liverpool.
He'd have been playing centre back every week and would be England's first choice by now.
Getting messed around something rotten at Utd. Smalling is as well.

Disagree.
Have said before Jones is head and shoulders a better player than Smalling.

Its not confidence he's lacking its TALENT.

I will quite gladly eat my words if i'm proven wrong but in 3 years time Smalling will still be a bit-part player and our CB partnership will be Jones + a new buy.

Smalling is neither a monster like Vidic nor astute like Rio - he is too soft and too clumsy for me. He isn't very fast, he can't pass and his decision making is awful. I fail to see how he is going to be in our first team let alone be the "Best in the World".

Also if you think he played well for England the other night you need to lift your expectations of what consists of a good performance. He was mediocre at best, he was up against nobody and I was concerned every time he got the ball, not as much as he was though, he looked so uncomfortable.

I'm all up for giving players a decent chance, but I will reserve heaping praise on them until they actually do something, I'm getting sick of hearing about potential, will be the best, etc.

To be fair juicer Evans would walk into your team! Not exactly the bench mark are u

Sometimes when I watch Smalling it seems he hasn't progressed much from his Maidstone days. He needs to work on his commanding of the box in the air and his distribution is, at times, awful. Hopefully for us he's a work in progress but he's got to step up to the plate real quick if he wants to be a top defender.

It's a sad situation when a Liverpool fan appreciates a couple of your players better than you shower.
Is anyone saying that Jagielka or Cahill are better than Jones?
Both of them two are going to get torn to bits in Brazil, you can see it from here.
Smalling and Jones would be better suited out there.
But no. Moyes is one of them fellas that squeezes pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together when they don't fit.

Players, whether young or established need continue run of games to get in form and impliment their game and learn.
but in name of squad rotation and injury we always move our defence.

thats not helping anyone. we are looking far more fragile at the back in this current season.

and I have said this duing pre-season that forget what we are scoring. but the amount of goal we are conceding despite having full defense and defenscive manager is worring.

18 Oct 2013 16:37:37
Juicer, if he signed for liverpool he wouldn't be in the squad what with the world class daniel agger and mamadou sakho (both torn apart against southampton and agger against any tall player), let hodgson pick the englad squad, let moyes pick the united squad and let jones pick the team he wants to play for (both him and young picked united over liverpool, well why if you would make them england regulars?) jones is more talented than smalling who will not be the best centre back in united with a skinhead as michael keane is also better

Mike-Ox Long

17 Oct 2013 10:08:55
Don't worry guys. Moysie will sell Zaha and Kagawa as he doesn't want flair. He'll replace them with average defenders. He won't have excitement at OT.

Ok, so you know this how? You know we tried to sign Fabregas in the summer, is he an average defender?

GDS2

We all know Utd were never going to sign Fabregas. Bids were made public to please the fans!

Moyes ended up buying Fellaini! He's a bit different to Cesc, is he not?

Tried to sign Fabregas for £27m. Was that a serious bid? If we were serious, we should have offered in excess of £50m as ozil went for £42m and Fabregas is better player all round.

Ok DJ please tell us how u no this?

Which part Chris the REDman?

That fellaini is a different player to Cesc or bids were made public to please fans?

Ill answer both.

Cesc is a technically gifted player and reads the game very well.
Fellaini is the opposite and will try to use his strength to get through games!

Barca paid 30 odd mil to get Cesc, a few years later (bare in mind he has the best stats in barca's midfield) you go and offer less than what they paid for him. Serious bid?

P.S didn't moyes come out and say Ozil is not the type of player your looking for? (That was probably to please the fans as well) But he put a bid in for Cesc? hmmmmmm?

We were aware that Barcelona needed to strengthen other areas of their team and Cesc was unhappy with his game time a bid of £30mil is fair enough considering the circumstances, I don't think it was just to trick the fans.

If a player seems unhappy and we can guarantee first team football for the best club in England in front of 75000+ fans plus Barcelona need funds to buy players then you are going to offer less than what people would consider market value.

Just the same if you think somebody is desperate to sell their house, you offer less than market value to take advantage of the situation.

Our club just read the signs wrong that's all and it can be excusable under the circumstances - we appeared to be lead on quite a bit, but who knows really what happened?!

I can only guess Kagawa and Zaha are not enough in the training sessions that we don't but the coaching staff do see. Adnan has been given a chance so give it a rest.?

I would also guess that Zaha will get a few games before January then go on loan. Half a season training with RVP, Rooney and co and half on loan in the PL would be good progress for an inexperienced player if you ask me.

Tbh its still ust an assumption to suit ure argument is it not?