Manchester United Banter Archive August 18 2014

 

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18 Aug 2014 22:33:58
Should we just bite the bullet and go Dutch, they know the system and the manager!
On this theory I would definitely get in Strootman (work on his recovery until October when should be up and running), Blind (flexible player, can cover HM until Strootman ready or LWB whilst Shaw out), De Jong (strong HM player, good squad midfielder and would follow the Van Gaal philosophy), Classie (maybe not quite ready yet but good buy for the future), Depay (young and could need time to bed in but could be a great addition for the future.better than our current crop)
We should have got in Janmaat (so much better than Rafael), De Vrij (what were we doing not signing him. solid and young)
Out there signing.if we can't get anyone else in.Concrete Ron Vlaar, takes no prisoners. not glossy but would do a job at a reasonable price.
Maybe this was just my view after a trip to the Netherlands. Germany on Friday and France next week so I reserve the right to want there players then!

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Check back after your German trip, Brad. Deutschland über alles!

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18 Aug 2014 22:00:04
How much of an improvement is rojo on what we have already?

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So he hasn't even signed yet and your questioning his ability?. I've an idea. When he signs, sell him and let's get another flavour of the month!

Some of the 'fans' posting on here are clueless

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An improvement to the balance of the squad.
Is he an improvement to our CB's, only time will tell.

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He's not much of an improvement. And I will only be satisfied with the signing is if we sign benatia aswell.

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Not a massive improvement defensively although he's pretty good on the ball and adds much needed cover.

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Boca, wind your neck in I'm asking a simple question as I've not seen much of him at all. so think before you comment again and before calling someone clueless, your obviously not intelligent enough to interpret a question as it's meant.

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The clueless comment wasn't directly aimed at you. It was a generalisation at the majority of the posts!

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19 Aug 2014 08:45:31
Yes he instantly improves the squad, as instead of inexperienced players such as James or Blackett to cover the LCB and LWB positions we have a proven quality player who has played in a world cup final. He is equally as good as Smalling, Jones and Evans with the potential to improve. We still need another CB as well as a wide player and a midfielder but its the start we need.

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Obviously nobody (fans) knows much about Rojo. He played in the World cup - so did Smalling, Jones and Shaw. However there are people who do know - LVG and others at Man Utd. Trust in those who DO know.
Patrick

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18 Aug 2014 18:53:55
Hi Ed002
Really appreciate your insights.

Is there any substance in the rumours of a fall out between van Gaal and Woodword?

Could there be any changes in the future as to how we conduct our transfer business with a Director of Football style person being in place to facilitate transfers and maintain good relationships other clubs.

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18 Aug 2014 18:19:23
With Vidal being more and more unlikely, Strootman out injured and Blind not really good enough what other targets are we left with?


Personally think Alex Song is worth a shout if we can't get Vidal.


ED has there officially been any interest in him from United?

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Oh why don't we put our faith in Fletch until Carrick is back?.

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Alex song is not good enough.

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Either is fletch or carrick but I think song is that bit better than them two

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How about Song on loan as well as trying to sign Vidal?

Carrick is injured and won't be back until around Christmas time by the time he is ready to play, then add to the fact that he will be required to come in and learn a new system so he will be nearly six months behind the rest of the squad in adapting to the new system. He might not fully be fit and on form again until late Febuary/early March. Which effectively rules him out of being much use for the rest of the season.

That leaves us with just Fletcher who may not ever recover the form he had before his illness, and Cleverley to partner Herrera who is settling into a new league.

Imo two signings would be far more prudent than one. Bare in mind Vidal is coming back form injury himself and may take time to find his feet.

So signing Song on loan would mean we have a prem proven player to help cover an area we are very weak in atm.

It just makes sense.

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Carrick is hardly much of an upgrade. His lack of pace and strength was exposed all last season, same as what happened with Fletch last weekend.

We need fresh faces in there as the crop we have are terrible, apart from Herrera who will probably prove his worth once he settles.

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18 Aug 2014 21:42:51
There seems to be a case of mass hysteria being caught. Moyes would have a better squad, failing to sign Di Maria would be a disaster, we will finish mid table. Sheesh people, it was 1 game. Add back in 4 injured players, a couple more signings and a rocket from LVG and bear in mind it is still a new formation. It was never gong to be overnight, let's stop the world is ending posts.

And hats off to Danny again for a top reply about Kronos

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18 Aug 2014 20:13:23
So apparently RM are imminently expecting a bid for Di Maria from MU. But Ballache has said that we are unwilling to meet the 65 million Euro fee that RM are demanding and also don't want to pay his wages of 8 million Euros per year. If this is true then I just don't get why we don't end up going for bottom end players and accept mediocrity. We have to start paying the going rate sooner rather than later. Di Maria would be a fantastic number 7 and a world class edition to the team who would give us a great deal of tactical flexibility. If we cock this up whilst seemingly having very little competition then it truly is a disaster.

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That's the difference between City, Chelsea, Bayern, and the 2 Spanish clubs and us. They're willing to pay the premium for certain players and we are always looking to get a deal. Bottom line!

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Paying £52m for Di Maria is nearly akin to paying £35m for Carrol and worse than paying £27m for Fellaini. Has it really gotten that bad that we need to pay £20m more than a player is worth when there are plenty of other reasonably priced alternatives around?

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18 Aug 2014 21:20:52
Bloody hell fresh stop believing every word that comes from journalists mate, it will drive u crazy lol :-)

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18 Aug 2014 21:29:57
Why pay well over the top though for players? I get your point we obviously need to spend but the figures being quoted for di Maria are ridiculous

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18 Aug 2014 21:30:11
Hes not worth 65 million, which is why noones bidding.

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A journalist has said that MU were close to making a big signing this summer, but balked over just £2m. This is what I expect will happen more than once this summer.

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I'd rather spend £52m on Di Maria than let the Glazers use it to pay down the debt. The money is irrelevant here, bottom line is do we want Di Maria or not? Simple answer really.

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18 Aug 2014 21:44:55
We may aswell bid for CR7
if they are demanding that
amount . The club and team
would be boosted enormously
if we were sucessful

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I think this deal will get done but not at the numbers that is being quoted and it will be less and closer to the David luis deal imo.

I think Vidal will still happen and that is the end of great window for us.

I can see us then doing a late deal for an older cb, ala blanc type of deal just to add experience and some cover there.

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Di Maria is a world class player. That is the going rate. Look at the deals happening around Redseven - James for over £70 million after one good tournament. Prices are incredible and the top teams are paying them - we should be too as we are as big if not bigger than all of these.

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A player is worth what a team is willing to pay for him, I thought he was just as important to Madrid success as Ronaldo and Bale were.

How much did Madrid pay for Bale last yr? I think nearly everybody thought they were crazy to pay that much. How did that work out. How much did Madrid pay for James? He was average last yr but had a great WC. A player is worth what a team is willing to pay for him. I think Di Maria is a fantastic player and would love to have him.

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Redseven can you name the reasonably priced players we can get and actually want to come.di maria is rapid and apparently wants to come who cares how much he costs unless your paying.

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19 Aug 2014 00:22:55
Just my opinion, but I think Di Maria is in a group of players just below Ronny and Messi. He'll cost a few bob. We either pay it or we don't, depending on whether Van Gaal rates him.

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Nelly - I commented earlier in response to a similar question.

'Costa for £32m, Moreno for £12m, Fabregas for £27m, Kroos for £20m, Griezman for £24m, Rakitic, Filipe Luiz and Immobile for £15m, Ter Stegen for £10m, Bernat and Ginter for £8m, Lewandowski, Sebastian Rode, Ashley Cole, Alex, Diego Lopez and Vidic for nothing.'

All of those players have been signed by other teams during this window and all of them (bar Ter Stegen - who will one day be one of the best keepers in the world) would have improved our starting 11 at the start of the window.

Assuming a deal for Rojo goes through at £16m and we were to sign Di Maria for £52m - that would mean we'd spent £124m on Shaw, Rojo, Di Maria and Herrera.

Kroos, Rakitic, Griezman, Fabregas, Moreno, Lewandowski, Moreno, Alex, Bernat, Ginter and Ter Stegan cost their new clubs a total of £124m.

I'm not suggesting that we could have signed all of those players (although I imagine had we really pushed we could have signed most) - but it's demonstrative that there's value in the market if you look for it.

For what we'd spend on our four signings it's possible to assemble a team of 11 that would finish in the top 4 of any league in the world at the very least. Throw in our spends on Mata and Fellaini and we'dve spent £188m and still have an unbalanced team which is weak in midfield and at the back and can't fit all 4 of our best players in without playing one of them out of position (this would be Mata, Rooney, RVP and Di Maria).

I agree that we need to be willing to spend money - but throwing money at a player like Di Maria simply because we can't sign our top targets just doesn't make sense. I'd honestly rather we spent £52m on Hummels - as at least then we'd be addressing one of the areas that actually needs addressing.

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19 Aug 2014 00:37:51
Sydney, do you reckon it was Sanchez?

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Maybe Cesc? Kroos? I really have no idea.

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19 Aug 2014 09:22:32
I'm with Redseven here, Rodriguez is 23 and is very promising. He will, in my opinion be a much better player than Di Maria is at 26.

He isn't worth 65m euros, sure we're not paying it. but it'll only be a while where all of you will be complaining that we can't get deals done and aren't spending money - because if we pay the 65m for Di Maria, tomorrow they'll ask us 40m for Rojo (just an example).

I agree once you're desperate you tend to pay over the odds, but there is no reason to panic buy. LvG knows this and all of you are doing exactly that, panicking. There has only been one game, 10 players injured, a new formation and a new manager. Off the back of an impressive undefeated pre-season. Chill out lol

Ed002 has told us where interest lies, and Woodward is trying. I share your frustration but prematurely panicking about his inability to conclude a deal won't help, you guys did it last year and then praised him when he got Shaw and Herrera in. Still under 2 weeks to go. Its clear to everyone at United that players are needed.

All said, we may still end up paying 65m for Di Maria! lol

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Ay3 - I can see us paying £52m for Di Maria if we can't sort a deal for Vidal or another 'marquee' signing. The pressure is on Ed Woodward to deliver (and rightly so given some of his comments) and as the end of the window draws nearer I can see him getting desperate.

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18 Aug 2014 19:43:04
Ok, I have wrapped myself up in bubble wrap in anticipation of the beating this post will earn me.

But does anybody else think that if David Moyes had not been sacked that we would of potentially had a better squad by now? If the media are to believe he had done a lot of work in identifying the players we needed and lining players up. That is not to say Ed the plank Woodward would have managed to sign them. And in all likelihood the football would have been poor. But a midfield of Kronos, Vidal, carvalho sounds better than we currently have. A defence of garay, Miranda, shaw and raffles when fit sounds more robust than we currently have. He didn't rate nani or Anderson.

Van gala so far has not inspired me with confidence. I worry he has underestimated the premiership.

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Well if we had Kronos, the personification of time and father of Zeus, pulling the strings in the middle of the park, I don't think any team could stop us.

But even that isn't as daft as your actual hypothetical: if Moyes stayed and was able to spend upwards of £200m, and every player we wanted decided to sign for us, would we be in a better position? Of course we would, but it's not as if any of the players we actually tried to sign turned us down because they only really wanted to play under David bloody Moyes.

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No because who ever we go after they are reluctant to pay what they need to get the player. That's the owners not the manager not even woodenhead.

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I agree about the signings. Herrera and shaw were definitely signings that would have happened under Moyes' - along with William Carvalho and a CB or two, IMO.

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Watching Chelsea - I genuinely don't think one of our players would get in their starting 11. Makes me feel sick.

Moyes made his mistakes, but the problems are 10X bigger than Moyes. Had Moyes been in charge we would undoubtedly have better players now, unfortunately I don't think we would be better long term and the football wouldn't be much better to watch.

Hopefully LVG's plan will work for us, but I don't like how he changes his tune like the wind and his decision making is very questionable to me, although I am just a mere mortal and LVG is already Godlike to some.

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It's a thought provoking post, listening to what he said about our targets last summer it might have been interesting to have seen this window.
On the other hand the players that we already have seemed to have zero confidence or respect for the bloke so who knows.

I think LVG will be a great manager as long as he gets his targets in otherwise I really don't see him sticking around that long.

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I was a lot more confident when LvG was announced than when Moyes was announced.


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to identify Bale, Ronaldo and Kroos as "targets". Every friggin club would be delighted to have them.


However Ed Woodward's incompetence should not affect our judgement of both Moyes and LvG. He has been incompetent during the reign of both the managers.


We call Fellaini a waste. That was a move sanctioned by Moyes, might not be his first choice but he still Fellaini would suit us.


LvG would've never signed Fellaini because his vision of the kind of football we should play is completely different and its something the fans can relate to.

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Huggy, I think you are spot on that at this precise moment we would have a better squad by now. Herera was his buy and Shaw was started under his management. I do believe we would have gone for Carvallho and it all be done by now.
However, does that mean we would be in a better position going forward. that I am not to sure of.
I liked Moyes, wanted him to succeed but I just think he was the wrong man for the job.
Van Gaal will be a slow starter as he was most places he has managed, I think someone even posted a while back (may have been Shappy?) that we should expect it to take a while as it takes a long time (Van Gaal is talking 10 weeks) to fully understand his philosophy. Bit by bit he will take us to places Moyes would never have taken us
Keep the faith

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Good post - and I agree with you entirely.

I don't think Moyes had the personality or winning mentality to be manager of Manchester United - but I do think he had a plan for the squad.

In the long run I think we're better off without him - but certainly at the moment it seems as though we're a little worse off from a transfer point of view.

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18 Aug 2014 21:00:53
Last year moyes thought he was getting bale ronaldo and cesc but only signed fellaini,, this year he thinks he would have got vidal miranda carvalho,, but he would have signed jagielka and joseph yobo and tim cahill on loan

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Possibly better names, but still as disappointing on the pitch. As much as I like Moyes as a person, it was depressing viewing. The pre season was much much better, and I hope people don't make too much out of the one result against Swansea.

It will probably take a few windows for LVG to get his vision in place, in the same way Moyes was lining up these bigger names for his vision. As Fergie said, our job is to stand by the new manager, and I trust him to deliver given time. I would even prefer to see no new players come in this window than any panic buys, and get us the right player come January or even next Summer.

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I think our transfer business would have been done a lot more and earlier. He got a lot of stick for doing things that the new manager is also doing. Whoever followed SAF was doomed to fail given our transfer failings last summer.

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18 Aug 2014 23:09:29
Danny, like the idea of Kronos in middle of the parK!lol, however, feel we may still be short at CB, add to that the fact that Kronos has had his injury problems and I still think we should be looking at an audacious bid for Apollo to help Evans out and maybe a move for Poseidon to help with the wave of attacks from out wide, would def be looking at top 4 finish with that lot!(assuming we get Vidal also!lol)

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19 Aug 2014 08:36:19
I agree with you, we wouldn't have signed Kroos.

It's a hard one to call because tactically we would have been a lot worse off however Moyes had a season to clear out a lot of players and bring in his targets.

In playing personnel I have no doubt that we would have been 100% stronger, tactically I'm not sure but I'll always stand by the fact that Moyes is a fantastic manager but he just wasn't right for us.

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18 Aug 2014 19:48:40
Does anybody know who the execs at sky sports support. I can't help but notice the Liverpool bias in terms of their pundits with Jamie redknapp, Jamie carragher and graham souness.

I did not think Gary Neville would be so good as a pundit. He is very balanced. He clearly still shows he is a utd fan, but he is not biased like carragher. Apart from his squeaky voice I hate listening to him because he talks rubbish 80% of the time.

I hope Neville goes into coaching (England duties aside) as he seems to be very insightful. I would rather have him as assistant than Ryan giggs.

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I love G. Neville's commentary and punditry, its insightful and not boring like most. His voice doesn't make your ears bleed like Carra's do.

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Everybody would rather have Gary instead of Giggs. I hope if one day Utd venture into the unknown field of football directors Gary gets appointed, if he's interested

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18 Aug 2014 19:14:46
Okay I am worried by LVG lately with his explanation on the lack of transfers. He has said that he wants to asses the players etc. it only takes 24hrs to get a transfer done etc. but when he took over he immediately spoke of the imbalance in the squad with many players for the advanced position (No. 10 etc) and shortfall in the defensive positions. This was identified weeks ago and nothing has been done to rectify it. He now talks about patience and not rushing to purchase. Why has he not signed the defensive players to correct he imbalance. He is beginning to sound more and more like SAF in his later years, no value in market etc. If there was imbalance get the players in early as there are definitely needed and assess the and look for targets late in the window.

Our problem now is if we do sign 2 or 3 players they will need time to 'adjust to the premiership' and then to the LVG way of playing, by which time we could be already under pressure for results.

Everyone also assumes that it only takes a phone call and Strooman will be signed in January, Roma will not want to sell him mid season and will screw us if they do.

Rant over.

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Would the simalarities with SAF and LvG not indicate their hands are tied?

I'd preffered to have seen decisive actions taken and the new players in the squad by now.

Maybe if Fellaini goes to Napoli and Nani goes to Sporting for Rojo that could be the catalyst for new players.

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What exactly do you expect LVG to say? That he's given Ed Woodward a list of players to sign but as of yet none have them have come in?

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The way United have spent money I think it's fair to say that whether or not there is any value in the market we have not been able to find it. We have spent £50m+ for each of the last 5 years and what have we got? A disjointed unbalanced slow team where the key problems we have all been aware of have not been addressed.

Some of this has to be laid at the feet of SAF since he presumably was responsible for sanctioning the expenditures up until last season when Moyes arrived and bought Mata and Fellaini neither of whom were needed and did not correct the imbalance. At the end of the day though, in my opinion, the common link is the Glazers and the LBO. Ever since they arrived we have tried to make do with mediocre players. Mutton dressed up as lamb. And as the senior staff have aged and dwindled away, what we're left with just mutton.

That was never the United way. we were always in the market for the best - no longer. We always had a great youth development program - no longer. The whole focus of the club since the Glazers came in has been towards balancing the books, when the revenues of the club should have made that facile. It's been about United as a commercial enterprise rather than a football club.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'd prefer Abramovic to the Glazers.

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18 Aug 2014 19:28:02
Come transfer deadline I expect one of two things:

1: A new top level CB (Benatia) Rojo, Vidal or Strootman and Di Maria

2. Rojo, Blind and Strootman.

Personally option 2 would be disappointing but most likely. In my opinion we are falling behind but as Ed002 says there is a plan to right things over the next 3 windows.

I wonder whether some like G Neville, Cantona or van der Saar working in a role like Zidane did at Real or Viera at Citeh but taking it up a level did would help smooth relationships with other clubs?

I think we need to use third parties as Ed Woodward isn't as capable as Gill (his strengths lie in other areas and there's nothing wrong with that). The third party % then makes use less competitive at the front end as we need to cover their cost then end up struggling to secure the big deals.

What do other people think will happen and how do people think we perform in the transfer market?

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I think unless the glazers wake up to the reality of the modern transfer world we will sign nobody else. They are going to have to spend 40 plus million to get players like vidal and possibly more. If we want him we will have to pay it. They don't want to because they want to keep the spending down. is just is what it is - rubbish to keep sponsers and fans interested then we will get the usual bull in two weeks and will be watching that ever bigger space in January

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I'd prefer David Beckham in that role instead of Eric. I believe he has a bigger appeal.

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18 Aug 2014 18:30:23
Just seen that we have made a bid for Rojo but because Sporting Lisbon only get 25%, that is what's slowing it down + They want Nani on loan.

And Juventus value Vidal at 45million. So what are you doing Woodward!? Go and get him!

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18 Aug 2014 17:35:14
I'd much prefer going all out for Reus right now instead of sitting around and praying that PSG can't raise the funds-- how embarrassing for us- for Di Maria. Considering the bind that Dortmund will be in next year with Reus, could a big offer this summer tempt them? Reus, for me, is every bit as good, if not better than Di Maria. Reus no.7 pays for itself both on and off the pitch

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I think most people would prefer Reus - apart from perhaps LVG. The prices being thrown around for Di Maria are absurd and our luck with Brazilian and Argentinian players has been abysmal in the past (Veron, Fabio and Rafael, Anderson, etc).

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Reus is certainly better imo as a wide forward but is he as good in midfield? or as an out and out winger? That I think is where LvG sees the value in Di Maria.

Me personally I would go for Reus, but I'm not the manager.

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The amount of money is daft but di maria is the better player imo

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I'm not sure, if the likes of Mangala, Mata & Luiz are worth £40m+, then so is Di Maria.

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Syd - As far as I'm aware none of those three players cost more than £40m?

It really depends on exactly who you target - but there are plenty of examples of great/good players moving for reasonable sums or in some cases free.

Costa for £32m, Moreno for £12m, Fabregas for £27m, Kroos for £20m, Griezman for £24m, Rakitic, Filipe Luiz and Immobile for £15m, Ter Stegen for £10m, Bernat and Ginter for £8m, Lewandowski, Sebastian Rode, Ashley Cole, Alex, Diego Lopez and Vidic for nothing.

Any one of these players would have improved our first 11 going into the transfer window (except for Ter Stegen - who will likely go on to become one of the top three keepers in the world). I don't mind us paying a little over the odds to bring people in - but anything more than £35-40m for Di Maria is a joke.

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All three of them cost more than £40m.

Why does it matter to you how much Di Maria cost?

Would you prefer it to go to the debt?

Di Maria or no Di Maria?

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Syd -

Managala cost £24m, Mata cost £37m and Luiz cost £43m (I thought the latter was completed in Euros).

The Luiz deal is a great example of why we shouldn't sign Di Maria. When PSG paid £43m for him - people and papers around the world said they were crazy to pay so much (and rightly so imo). This is a club that have spent way over the odds time and time again; and yet even they think the money being asked for Di Maria is too much. How can we go on blaming clubs like City, Real Madrid and PSG (and Chelsea before them) for destroying the transfer market and then call for our club to do the same?

I don't understand why you see it as a case of Di Maria or bust? Do you honestly believe that the club have limitless funds to the point where we could pay £20m over market value for all of our signings and not have that affect the budget? £52m spent on Di Maria is £52m better spent elsewhere. As I said in response to another thread - if we're going to overpay ridiculously for a player I'd rather they at least play in a position we need strengthening rather than be an over-rated, light-weight and often under-performing mook like Di Maria.

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18 Aug 2014 17:06:00
Does anybody think we may come to regret letting both vidic and rio go?

i'm certain Rio would of signed an extension, he may not be the cb he used to be but he's experienced, which is exactly what we are missing.

Do any of the editors know of any top class cb's that are available this window? I know both benatia and hummels are at the right price but are there any others?

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{Ed004's Note - Depends on what you consider top class. Don't think there are many world class cb in football atm}

Even defenders just to improve us, top class are the likes of hummels, benatia, chiellini, (to b fair I can't think of any others) But what actuall defenders are available that would improve us?

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We didn't 'let' Vidic leave. Not sure I'd have kept Rio on regardless but wouldn't have minded us keeping Vidic for another season or two if he could have been persuaded to stay.

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Vidic to me is a big miss. He would of been tremendous as the central of the three defenders - he has no pace but attacks the ball and marshals everyone like Vlaar did so successfully in the WC. Vidic is a huge loss.

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We have to go through the growing pains until we get some experience in. And really, no sense dwelling on the past, then we will start thinking about a certain young Frenchman that we let go not too long ago .

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Big mistake letting Rio go. I said a few weeks ago LVG is a bit of a hypocrite, he wants to see players for himself yet let's Rio go, someone we would need irrespective of buying 1-2 CB's because of our injury problems.

If he knew Rio wasn't good enough (Giggs contradicts this), then why doesn't he know others aren't good enough?

We also didn't need any players a couple of week ago he tells the press, now we definitely do! I think we have built this guy up too high and too fast.

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Hes a great manager but he's not a miracle worker, we need an experienced head at cb but I can't think who? Got a feeling its going to end up being carrick

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Spot on Beast.

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Beast I don't think its a case of LvG not thinking Rio is a good defender, it's more whether LvG thinks Rio at the age of 35 nearly 36 has the ability to adapt his game to playing in a new way with new responsibilities.

LvG has found in the past that the players who struggle most to adapt to his new methods and a new way of playing are the oldest players in the squad. So he probably felt that if Rio was to stay for one more year then he would likely struggle with the new formation and tactics and as such would just take games away from a younger player who would probably make the same mistakes as Rio would likely make but with the bonus of having time on his side to learn from them and become a better more rounded player for LvG to use in the future.

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Shappy. I agree it is sensible to move the old guard out so the youth can progress, however as this is a staged process of rebuild (LVG in control), it would have been far wiser to lose the experience in stages. I'm not too sure how many games Blackett will get if we sign the 2 CB's we need as we have limited games this season.

Furthermore with CL qualification being crucial it is a big gamble that didn't need to be taken. Ferdinand for one more season in an area of our squad we have no reliable players in, is very sensible. Especially as our primary target (Hummels) is not available this summer.

Ferdinand is an intelligent footballer and I think he would pick up the new system a lot quicker than somebody like Jones or Smalling. LVG making his judgment on Ferdinand without working with him was rash, especially as he insisted on assessing all the players personally. Rio until Xmas would have been sensible.

I bet he regrets the over confidence now.

Ferdinand is clearly not at the level needed to compete at the highest level any more, but at the moment we are looking short and weak at the back and we should have kept him until either our targets are acquired or are inexperienced players have adapted. We have gone all in with this gamble needlessly.

I appreciate you are simply outlining why you think LVG made the decision. I just think he is a bit too confident and now he is back tracking quickly.

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Beast, saying Hummels is unavailable is all well and good, but I still believe there is a price we could meet to get him. Just like with Vidal, Blind and Di Maria, I think we are just unwilling to meet the asking price.

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Syd - I'm sure for £60mil we would get him now. But every German expert I have heard or read, bar none has said that Hummels is going nowhere. Their manager is adamant as well and he could rival LVG on the arrogance stakes.

If Woodward struggles to get straightforward deals done, and overpays massively like he did with Mata & Fellaini, then maybe £60mil would still not get him.

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18 Aug 2014 16:43:14
Season Tickets SOLD OUT, Not really true.

As late as Friday pm 15th Aug, MUFC TeleSales were offering me 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 seats together for the season, in Manchester Suite, and 3 other exec Areas, that's sizable area of the Alex Ferguson Stand with 20% discount on all.

Strange that the message given out by the club some weeks ago, was that All Season tickets have now been Sold. Well, all the £900 ones have!

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This seems a little odd. I'm not surprised that they're not signed out but don't understand why the club would be so public in insisting that they were. Obviously it doesn't look too good that season tickets haven't sold out but telling people they are all gone will decrease the likelihood of the remaining tickets selling.

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Thats of course assuming that the announcement that the season tickets have sold out was for the fans.

The club will want sponsors and other potential investors to think the club is still selling out and being very successful and that people want to come to the ground.

They won't worry if the season tickets aren't completely sold out, they'll still be sold on the day and they will try more targeted marketing to sell as much as possible such as calling emailing and posting letters to fans in order to try and sell as many tickets as possible.

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All normal season tickets sold out a month or more ago, the only ones availible are in the executive suites, you can see this if you go on the club website and you can pay £1700 per seat :)

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18 Aug 2014 16:42:20
So here's a question, who's to blame with the lack of signings, Woodward or The Galzers? I personally don't know who to blame!

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Aren't they sort of the same? I mean Ed does work for them, and they have shown no inclination to fire him after his poor performance in bringing in transfers last summer, and his as yet questionable performance this summer.

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There all the one. i'd say woodward does jack shit without making a phone call to the yanks first.

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Is there a distinction between the two choices? Woodward is a Glazer man and is running the 'business' in the way the Glazers want: maximise income, minimise spending, eliminate the debt and sell in 2017.

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I am no fan of the glazers but since they have owned the club we have bought players and it is not their fault if our managers have bought the wrong players

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18 Aug 2014 17:25:00
The Glazers. If they were willing to sanction big spending we would have landed our targets. simple as. They are clearly not willing to go that extra step and spend really big on a top player.

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We are fastly becoming a laughing stock when it comes to transfers now.

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My personal take on the situation is this:

The board wanted success on the least possible spend. They had a feeling that, with 2 new signings, LVG should be able to squeeze a bigger effort out of the squad (remember, these are NOT football men – IMO, they simply look at the situation as "SAF got them to win the league 2years ago" and don't look at the bigger picture or specific problems in the squad).

They looked at the first 6 games or so and thought "LVG will get close to maximum points" so felt that we could probably wing it at least until Christmas. Get Woodward to talk the big talk, and once the wins are coming the fans will be pacified until the next window when they can reassess.

I think that defeat to Swansea, and the inevitable conversations with LVG that have followed, have probably convinced them that big spending is needed but by now we're really pushed for time.

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Woodward will have a brief to sign players at the best possible prices. It's impossible to say if the Glazers are holding him back in terms of the amount they're allowing him to spend (IE, if they've given him a maximum price which is below the selling clubs' valuation) - but ultimately it is the Glazers who hired him and were they to tell him to pay what's required to bring in the players he'd have to do so.

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Red Sky bud we are all are miffed at lack of signings but the prize for the most fantasy based post must go to you.
try writing a book mate! You are a sure hit!

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2005-2012 net spend £12. 5 mill per season there is your answer to why we are now in the crap.saf must share some of the blame he kissed the yanks arse and said they always backed him, our spend and quality of purchases tell a different story.

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Totally agree chilly and john Denton . Woodenhead is their man . He does what they tell him .

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18 Aug 2014 16:32:09
seems LVG has had a small tiff with woodward over transfer targets and the way they are being handled.

Maybe LVG feels that targets are taking a long time to be competed and isn't happy with the way woodward negoitates. just like many utd fans then.

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18 Aug 2014 17:23:58
If we had won on Saturday do you think there would have been any reports of 'small tiffs' between them? Anything you hear now is just made up to jump on the 'united lost a match so let's overreact' bandwagon.

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Whilst I'm disappointed with both the result and performance on Saturday - I think it may ultimately help to convince the people upstairs that investment is needed. Whether or not there has been a 'tiff' - the Glazers will not like the fact that it's being reported.

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18 Aug 2014 16:20:59
Anyone wish they could go to sleep and wake up on 1st September? The last two weeks drag like hell, especially for us haha!

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Not really mate. I've just started a weeks holiday in the Cotswolds, and I've been really looking forwards to it :)

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18 Aug 2014 15:39:08
Although I was not impressed by either Arsenal or Liverpool this weekend - I was left underwhelmed with our display. As many people have mentioned - we lack the attacking verve of old, too many sideways passes.

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{Ed002's Note - Obviously you are not a fan of the team or formation being player - and we recognise that and want to give you a place to put that right. Somewhere to share your vision of how the team should like up and who should be in it.

To that end, I can announce that later this afternoon will see the launch of a new page for Teams and Formations (where the old Teams page was). You can discuss, diamonds, triangles, icosaheda and drink virtual coffee and eat virtual biscuits (virtual sugar-free juice and virtual rusks for the early evening crowd).

I am going to provide a couple of treats to launch this all off. You will be provided with background information as to how thought control has led you to speak in series of numbers that add up to 10 (I do appreciate many modern fans struggle with this concept). Then tomorrow I will explain the views of two highly respected folk about formations and associated tactics - and I might even share my views on the benefits of asymmetrical formations.

But we will open in about half an hour with a brief item covering Subbuteo and the evolution of the football fan's hand.}

18 Aug 2014 12:36:29
Hi Ed002 - I know you dislike questions about finance; but I was wondering what would happen if we offered to trade a player for Rojo rather than paying cash? Would the third parties be able to veto the transfer or would Sporting simply owe them 75% of what they valued the traded player at (ie, could a player trade get around the fact that they only own 25% of Rojo's rights)?

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{Ed002's Note - You seem to be making this stuff up - I cannot get in to any bizarre whatif questions.}

SL could never support Nani's salary R7 mate. I think that's what you were getting at wasn't it?

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I wasn't at all suggesting that a swap deal was on the cards - but was just curious as to what would happen if it was. Thanks anyway, I guess.

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18 Aug 2014 18:53:26
R7,

Its like you deliberately tried to wind Ed002 up with that question then seemed shocked when you got the answer you did. He doesn't like talking about finance, so don't talk about finance, simple really.

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19 Aug 2014 09:22:13
GDS2 - not in the slightest. I read about an incident recently in which a selling club undervalued a player involved in a trade to avoid paying money to the players' previous club and wondered whether the same thing could theoretically happen when it came to third party ownership. I've not heard of any such incidents to find an answer for myself and given Ed002's understanding of the financial side of things figured he/she was the best person to ask.

If Ed002 doesn't want to answer questions he/she can simply ignore them. I'm not sure why there's any need for anybody to be wound up!

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18 Aug 2014 12:36:08
A quick question for Ed002 if he/she is around

Loving the site as usual, 1. have MU rekindled their interest in carvalho, and 2. have MU had any kind of discussions with Roma about Strooman for either this window or January?

Many thanks

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{Ed002's Note - I have explained what I know.}

18 Aug 2014 13:08:40
Few rumours around that we have agreed 16m + nani on loan for a year for rojo. But the sticking point is nani doesn't want to go.

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18 Aug 2014 13:08:33
Looking back at the defending issues in the Swansea game:

1. The first goal we gave up shows a serious issue, in that the midfield was nonexistent around the top of the box, where Ki was free to shoot.

LVG will surely deal with that tactically, but it shows our need for Carrick's return, at least his strong positional sense. And more so, our need for a defensively strong center mid to come in.

2. The second was from a youthful mistake by Blackett, giving the ball to Bony for a quick restart. Blackett looks like a good young player and he will learn from this. The poor defending after the restart we have often seen when a defense falls apart under pressure, it happens.

The other point I want to bring up is when we are opening up in possession in the 3-4-1-2 we look vulnerable to the counter. Passes go into MF's feet and then back to the backs, the wingbacks are up and wide, the center mids drift further forward looking for space, and then a poor pass on the ground leads straight into a counter. Swansea then came full throttle right at our back three. Better teams will finish such chances more often.

What solutions do you all see for these problems?

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1. Buy a top quality cm.

2. Buy two top quality cbs.

3. Buy a few top quality wingers so that van Gaal can play his preferred 4-3-3 formation.

When the problems derive directly from the lack of quality and depth in the squad, there really is only one solution.

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I'm confused, was Carrick our saviour last season? No, he was not. The first goal could have been prevented had Bony not fouled Jones. It's funny how no media source even mentioned that clear-cut block. In the second goal there was a couple instances. Smalling was too busy complaining to the ref instead of getting back into position. Then after failing to block the cross, Young was slightly out of position, then to top it off, the ball went slowly across the area and instead of Fellaini charging it down like Jones would have done, he watched it go straight to Siggy and didn't do anything. When Fellaini came on and was played deep, he was awful, he stood in the middle of the pitch turning on a spot ball watching, he was in no man's land. We need to bring in two defenders and a midfielder. Carrick is not the answer and never has been.

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I agree with parts but carrick is not the answer he is far to slow now

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Syd, I'm not saying Carrick is the answer, but his positional sense is good. I agree that he plays too slow and conservative to help the team go forward. But what I am saying is that no one on the roster (besides Carrick) has that positional awareness and ability to protect the back line. Certainly not Fellaini, him ballwatching as the opponents score is nothing new.

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Sadly it seems a lot of fans have a loyalty thing going on. Hearts ruling over heads. AS much as we would like to think the likes of Carrick, Fletcher etc. can still do it, the cold hard truth of it is that they cant. The Premier League is becoming tougher and faster each year and you have to be at the top of your game to make it here, let alone the top of your game at an elite club like MUFC.

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Dan, Carrick is the best option agreed, unless Blind was signed and of course Vidal. I think MU know how important Vidal is and that's why they are denying any interest and using a 3rd party to do their bidding on their behalf. We all know how important Vidal would be, I think the club agree with this. Their actions seem to be supporting that idea anyway.

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Watch the first goal again and you will see that the problem in the first instance was Blackett getting sucked across, he was to blame for both goals indirectly. Obviously there were several stages of play afterwards and other mistakes made, but the problems came about because of the inexperience of Blackett. Fine margins at this level, despite looking very composed on the ball.

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The problem with Fletcher was the same problem we had with Carrick last season. Both lack any kind of physical presence and both are exceptionally slow. Unless we bring in a quality CDM, our back four will continue to be exposed by even the smaller clubs, and will continue to be a liability.

At this stage, I'd even take De Jong. I'm not a fan of him but he certainly wouldn't let teams bully us and would offer a solid line of defence in front of our back four.

I agree with Danny, we've changed our manager but Saturday showed we still have the same weaknesses meaning this is a personnel problem, not a managerial problem. We simply don't have the quality in those problem areas.

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I still can't understand why we haven't managed to buy a beast of a defensive midfielder? Wanyama was good for Southampton, carvalho is good for sporting, Fernando for City. It is the most glaring weakness we have and we simply do not want to address it! Why not?
Without bite in midfield, any team no matter how good will be useless.

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Moyes decided against Fernando (aka octopus) as he didn't rate his passing.

LvG clearly wants Blind & Vidal and is waiting for the board to deliver.

He may be waiting a while :)

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Good points, everyone. Last year I wanted Wanyama, this winter I was hoping for Fernando, and along with many of you, I would love Carvalho. Even if we got Vidal, I still think Carvalho would be worth it.

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18 Aug 2014 11:31:11
Playing with 3 cb s its even
more important that we buy
two defensive minded midfielders
CARVALHO AND VIDAL would
be perfect
So come on E WAR WOO WAR get
it done ( doesn't deserve D s yet)

Believable2 Unbelievable1

18 Aug 2014 13:12:30
So you play and extra centre back then you still feel the need to protect them with two defensive midfielders?

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Carvalho Vidal and Herrera will be the best balance playing behind the front three.
Carvalho is defensively minded while Herrera and Vidal are dynamic and would create chances.
Sadly, we go from day to day and nothing seems yo happen with regards transfers.

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18 Aug 2014 11:04:37
Reports that Rojo deal is agreed. €20m plus Nani on a season-long loan. MU will pay the majority of Nani's wages. MU are also open to letting Anderson move to SL and SL may be interested.

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Pretty good deal, Nani is finished here and won't get any game time. I'd be pleased to get Rojo but I hope this is just the start of a very busy fortnight.

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We could realistically get by with just Rojo at the back along side Jones and Smalling. The priority has to be someone to play alongside Herrera who doesn't slow us down in possession like Fletcher and Carrick do. The other crucial one to me is the right midfield / right wing back slot - Di Maria or another fast, attacking player is needed to give us some speed going forward. Three players and I'd be happy, add an extra center back and I'd be delighted.

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Agree with Fresh!
He may not be world class but I think Rojo would do a solid job for us and £16m isn't extortionate for a world cup finalist.

I just hope that's not the end of our business, if we go another season without addressing the defensive midfielder issue it'll be a travesty.

Nani needs to be shipped out, Anderson too, so hopefully we can come to an agreement.

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Is anybody else really pi$$ed off that we could of signed Garay at any point over the last 2/3 seasons and our defense wouldn't look half as bad now

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I just hope this deal goes through quickly so we shift focus elsewhere. Our appalling transfer window performance I think shows that Woodward can't multi-task haha.

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Garay and de vrij could have been rapped up by now for about £25m, we'd have been almost sorted

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If De Vrij was seen as MU quality, then we would have signed him.

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This is all reminiscent of last seasons transfer window: we are being linked with plenty of players, but can't get these deals over the line.

I am more than bemused by what is happening with Blind. There's a player who would instantly improve us and make us stronger in the middle of the park; a player that is available for the right money. What is the hold up? Doesn't the club want him?

Must admit to feeling a little disgruntled after reading some of the things the so called experts have been saying. They are pretty much saying the same thing; and to be fair, it isn't wide of the mark, especially where City and Chelsea are concerned: we are miles from being anywhere near challenging them atm, and that is very concerning.

I pray we get some players in defence and midfield. We have enough up top to hurt teams, but in in key areas, we are so far short of possessing what is needed to get this team in the CL next season, IMO.

I have no faith in the chief executive to deliver. After much talk of having all this money, and the best players wanting to sigh for us, it seems that he might have just been trying to ensure season ticket and memberships were renewed.

I hope I am proved wrong, on all accounts. We can't afford to have another bad season. It would be catastrophic for the club.

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Garay is utd class why didn't we sign him?

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A defence of Garay and Rojo would of been very good I think.

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I think the problem with blind is that he isn't our 1st choice which is fair enough as there are better players out there but when we realise that they are not for sale or we decide the asking price is too high (even though we are prepared to break transfer records and have loadsa money apparently lol) would blind want to come knowing we would be buying him because we couldn't get someone else instead?

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Samthered

Not convinced about Blind. If LVG truly thought he was up to the job we could've signed him a week ago or more, he's clearly a last-ditch target if all else fails.

Blind has also mentioned the PL might be too physical for him and given that we'd need him to play as CDM, that's not a good sign.

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18 Aug 2014 15:10:25
red,

If somebody offered to double your wages in your job but had offered the job to someone more equipped first who turned it down what would you do?

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Gds2 but blind would also have to think about what would happen if we land a top target in jan or next summer yes he would earn more money but he might be one of those rare footballers who actually want to play rather then sit on their ass and collect their wages(nani, anderson)

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18 Aug 2014 10:55:14
Since we're going on about the need for pace, how would you feel if we went for lucas moura from PSG?
Obviously that not how transfers work but he does tick a lot of boxes.Young, skilled, very fast, will not be favored if dimaria moves to psg who may need to sell players anyways to make the money needed.Plus he'll be cheaper and on significantly lesser wages.Eds, dare I ask if we show any interest at all?

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I really like Lucas, and as you say, if they get Di Maria where will Lucas fit in.

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Lucas wouldve been great for us, i'd prefer we get Verrati of them if we can't get Vidal.

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Not sure Lucas Moura would be cheap, PSG paid 45m euros for him. Talented player though.

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18 Aug 2014 10:58:08
I believe it was in the January window we were heavily linked with Ezequiel Garay what has happened to this interest?

Surely he would be a nice signing if Benatia prefers a move to Bayern. I'd like both to join us though as I believe they would make a great partnership with Jones.

Smalling for me doesn't provide enough from the back going forward. We need CBs who can defend plus least make forward passes also who are comfortable with the ball at their feet.

Ed not sure if this is a valid question/request but do you know if Hummels would be interested in joining Manchester United? Just wondering.

Thanks

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{Ed002's Note - Garay moved to Zenit. Hummels has been done to death but tere remains a chance that either of two sides could still move for him.}

Thanks Ed.

When you say Hummels has been done to death what does that mean?

Also, the two clubs you refer to, can you state who they are?

Appreciated.

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{Ed002's Note - Go and read the posts - two clubs have been interested. Dortmund don't want to sell. The two interested clubs, Manchester United and Barcelona, could return with offers.}

18 Aug 2014 10:02:32
who are the player that manu very interested and aim to get for this summer? Sorry ed for asking repeatably. I just panic after seen swansea beat us.

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{Ed002's Note - Read the posts.}

Rojo is closest to signing right now if certain sources are to be believed.

Blind isn't far behind, MU also want Benatia, Di Maria & Vidal.

Just don't expect all to come as it's never going to happen.

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18 Aug 2014 12:09:47
The interesting question Sydney is how many of the players on that list would be of interest to the best clubs in Europe? Vidal for sure but I doubt any of the others would. Not sure it's the lack of Champions League and I guess salary is not the issue. I suspect many modern players
, given a choice, will be interested in climate, lifestyle etc. If so the where would Manchester stand compared to Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich, Turin or London? Personally I'd be happy with Vidal and Rojo in this window.

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Do you think Blind will predominantly play Cm, cb or lb?

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The problem I see is that we need the top cb and the top cm or nothing will really change I think when rafael/valencia are back we can get by on the right and when shaw is back if he stays fit the left is ok it is the spine of the team that troubles me we have a brittle defense a porous midfield and a captain who just won't bloody stay were he is supposed to play the only saving grace is that we really do have a top keeper otherwise we would really be trouble but how long will he stay IF nothing changes top four this year is essential not just for recruiting better players but actually keeping hold of our decent players

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18 Aug 2014 07:58:22
Hi ed,
How can you update about vidal, Dimaria and Rojo?
thankz for your effort.

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{Ed002's Note - Nothing happened overnight.}

They all enjoyed a good nights sleep after a day of training and a nutritious meal I am told :)

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18 Aug 2014 06:15:44
A double swoop for Carvalho and Rojo?

Give them 45 million pounds + Nani + Anderson.

Has the Vidal ship sailed Ed?

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{Ed002's Note - Your view of transfers is pretty naïve I am afraid. It really is not as simple as you think. As for Vidal, nothing has changed - Juventus are not even on the same continent at the moment.}

Ed that was just wishful thinking.

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18 Aug 2014 08:15:10
Quick question to the Eds or anyone who can answer.

Lets say no one wants to buy Nani, Anderson or any of the high earnings who have been at the club for years and isn't performing to the standard required of a united player. You think we would call it a lost and just release them?

Thanks

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I would imagine you would have to come to a deal with them or pay up there remaining contract.

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18 Aug 2014 09:22:04
Diego,

To do that the club would need to pay a large amount to release the player, generally what they would be owed from the contract. So in a word, it is not really worth it.

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Ok I see.

Just thought what's the sense of playing them if they're not performing? Just aggravating the fans and I believe the Manager as well.

At least their wages would be freed up I guess. This window as well as the last has been really frustrating especially when everyone can see what we're lacking all over the pitch. Get out who's not performing and use the youngsters, to be honest I would prefer loose a game knowing we're using them than loosing a game with players who're earning 150k a week.

Just the way how I look at it at least.

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18 Aug 2014 07:58:45
I know it's been reported by the daily mail but the fact we're being linked to a £100m move for Di maria is crazy to me! For me that money would be better spent on bringing back Ronaldo. The way I see our transfer dealings going we'll sign Rojo and Blind for a combined fee of around £30m, Benatia still seems possible with Vlaar most likely backup while I reckon be Vidal OR Di Maria if we're to get either as our big marquee signing
Sorry for the long post

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Crazy money but that includes wages for a termed contract, ronaldo is 30 next year and with wages would cost a lot more than di maria,

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Get over Ronaldo, it's midfield and defense where we are struggling.
The prority should be Vidal and two center backs.

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Next time read it whole. 50m Fee + 50 million in terms of wages (@ 10m per year for 5 year deal)

We are not going to sing Vlaar. Wait it out man.

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18 Aug 2014 09:26:48
AVO,

You have fallen into the trap of reading a headline and not the story. The Daily Fail like to make people buy their paper with a massive headline that people believe. Surprisingly we will not be paying 100m for Di Maria, this would be the cost of him over say a 5 year spell, with wages etc. Ronaldo would cost considerably more.

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It's a £100m package, not a £100m transfer fee. His five year salary is included in the £100m plus other costs.

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Ronaldo's wages will be close to that over 5 years I would imagine.

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18 Aug 2014 07:29:20
The club seem to be completely denying interest in Benatia just like they have been doing with Vidal. Reports coming out today about an offer made to Di Maria. The Italian media meanwhile seems to believe that United and not Bayern are in "pole position" for Benatia (god knows what that means) and that Bayern would prefer to sign Diego Godin from Atletico Madrid instead.

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