Manchester United Banter Archive January 19 2014

19 Jan 2014 22:58:58
All this talk of Utd having a sense of originality' and being unique, playing homegrown players and even worse, English players is killing us. It works in places like Spain and Germany where football comes naturally to players but the British ones? They only start to look really good closer to their 30s. My opinion, focus more on importing talent rather than playing the likes of Welbeck and Co. It's plastic, but with the current competition, we will never win anything unless we evolve. No point hanging on to traditions at the expense of exciting football and silverware

Theres no lack of born talent. There's a lack of training of the youth players.

You are joking right we have produced plenty of great home grown players, and are close to the next in Wilson a player maybe better than anything we have had before, Pearson and a few other are going to be class time to look from within given the debt restraints, if we had the money I think we would have a few other world class players but the youth is a must at any club would you swap Januzaj and the player he is going to be for us for a player from abroad who cost lots of money I wouldn't.Just because we are just in a period of transition does not mean we are on the scrap heep just time and a little patience is what's needed, we will get this right were to BIG to stay away SAF created a monster and its to big to fall away

19 Jan 2014 22:33:39
Senor Nomidfield. We are in agreement about wanting the Glazers to sell, but the situation is inherently different to the Citys, Chelseas, PSGs etc. Those clubs were all purchased for relatively small amounts of money, and then pumped full of cash. To purchase United, assuming the edifice doesn't tumble, the starting point is $2.4bn at current stock prices and then the team rebuilding on top of that. That's a bunch of cash, and it's questionable whether earnings could justify it.

Our best hope, it seems to me, is that the Glazers actually do come up with $200-300m it's going to take to fix the issues on the field. If they do not, then the next best hope is that we run into a few seasons of poor results which make the debt situation untenable, and bring the stock price so far down that the Glazers are forced to find a buyer at a much lower price, or risk losing the lot.

And I can't agree more with all that you wrote. Guess we'll have to wait and see what the future brings.

Peashooter

They will never be forced to sell the club because of the debt mate. They can put all of it to bed by issuing another share float of 15% on current valuations and we would be debt free and producing over 100 mill and rising in profits a year.

They would own 75% in that scenario which is huge an complete control, so they owners financial situation is extremely healthy mate and can't see a forced sale.

19 Jan 2014 22:06:17
I wonder if all the pro moyes supporters will still be backing him if we finish outside top 10 or even worse. What if we sign no one this transfer window, and summer?
What then still back him.of course that will be glazers fault.
Last season we had carick playing cb and still won the league. Rooney didn't play much.we didn't have januzi, we didn't have Valencia for long period.
So how anyone can blame the loss of RVP and Romney for our dismall season is beyond me.
Face reality we are not going to make top 4 for several seasons even with 2 new players.

If we sign no one, it will definitely not be Moyes' fault.

Carrick played at Cb for 2 games.

Valencia was available for most of the season, and next to Cleverley and Young, was one of the absolute worst performers in the squad.

When you lose 2 of the best players in the world, you will suffer. Imagine City without Aguero and Toure, Chelsea without Hazard and Ramires, Arsenal without Giroud and Ramsey, Liverpool without Suarez ( for a long period, against decent teams )

We will be very close to the top 4 if not in it once we get our best players fit.

Mick. I think the city example wasn't a good one and disproves your theory. Aguero has been out three times this year. Yaya twice. Kompany was out for nearly two months. City didn't suffer as much because they have a good squad. And that is the point that was being made.

Mick1 - It's hard to tell if you're being serious or not.

This is the same David Moyes who rubbished all of our summer targets, spent the whole window chasing Baines, Fabregas and Fellaini (two of whom were never available) and deemed Fellaini a good signing.

If he'd not rubbished our original targets we would be in a much better position right now (Thiago, Strootman, Garay, Di Maria). If he had not refused to give up on signing Baines the deal for Coentrao would have gone through in time. If he had not spent £28m on Fellaini we would have had £28m to spend elsewhere (Negredo £20m, Wanyama £12m, Paulinho £16m, Eriksen £11m, etc).

How can a lack of signings not be a manager's fault when he shuns the advice of the previous management which is based both on months of scouting and a great knowledge of what the squad needs, targets players who are unavailable or worse still - targets players who are both too expensive and not good enough for the club? The money spent on Fellaini shows that funds were available (even if it was only £28m - that's still Eriksen and Paulinho).

19 Jan 2014 22:01:13
Cabaye going to PSG if you believe the news.

Jono is going to be upset :)

They're losing Matuidi, and I'd rather him than Cabaye. Veratti would be perfect though and second choice behind Gundogan for a creative midfielder

Where is Matuidi going? first time I ever heard of him leaving and Ed002 believes he will renew and stay.

19 Jan 2014 21:12:26
Manchester United are currently locked in negotiations to sign Grimsby Town's young star Mike Gosling. Goz, as he is affectionately known, has yet to make a first team appearance for the Mariners but has been making big strides in the youth sides and Moyes wants to add him to United's roster. Goz is a ball playing centre back known for his great composure on the ball and incredible strength. A deal is likely to be finalised this window.

Great. That's aligned all of our fears. Good luck to the lad though, hope in future he does well.

19 Jan 2014 21:13:07
I'm going to try to be sensible about the club and our chances. Our season I think will actually be defined by Wednesday night, if we can make the final then we could turn this awful season into a trophy - any one off game is winnable even against City. We need to get Rooney and RVP back, they are the two that will get us near the top 4 although I think at present 5th is going to where we finish. Having said that if we are 5th going into the Liverpool game a couple of points behind them then that will be the defining game for 4th spot. I don't think its imperative to make the CL but it's something that we all expect as I am sure that the board do. Overall though, if we can get to Wembley and make 4th then I will be a content fan going into the summer.

Now, moving on to players. We all know that we have a number of ageing players and players that aren't pulling their weight. We also have a manager who takes more interest in work rate than technical ability, this all bodes very poorly for Kagawa who I'm sure will go if he is behind Young for the big games. In an ideal world the only players I would keep are De Gea, Lindegaard, Rafael, Jones, Evans, Smalling, Carrick, Fletcher, Cleverly, Januzaj, Rooney, RVP, Welbeck and probably Chicharito just because he scores well off the bench. The rest of the squad, apart from those listed above, could go for me. I would have Lingard, Henriquez, Powell and the Keane's in and around the first team. But that would be for summer, for now we must do what we can. I won't go into summer transfers because I think I've blown that horn enough.

The big question is, what can we do now? We have to try to press on with this Coentrao deal, he could be two or three players rolled into one as he can play anywhere on the left handside and as a central midfield if necessary. Also, whilst not being my first choice, I would go for Cabaye. His form this season has been superb and he is Scholes-esque in style, we need someone that passes forward. As Neville et al said today, Jones and Carrick were good at passing sideways (as are Cleverly etc). We need Cabaye as he is someone that passes forward and tries to play the through balls. Only Rooney and Januzaj are players that seem to pass forward. Obviously I would like the Garay deal to be done now but I think its just going to drag on and on forever.

Post over! Let me know what you think guys.

Coentrao, Garay and Cabaye may not be the world class reinforcements we need but they would improve us immeasurably. I've always rated Cabaye v highly and thought we should've made a bid for him or Moutinho at start of 1213 season.

We are going backwards. Need some new faces to give the side a bit of impetus. Appreciate we need RVP and Rooney back to do that also but new recruits signal The Glazers are willing to invest. And I think jury's out on that one until we start to see new faces at OT.

Halesini, you say it shows a signal that the Glazers are willing to invest, but it goes back to the old argument. Do we want them to spend money just for the sake of it, to show that it's there, to placate the mob, or do we want it spent on proper, top-class players?

We could go out and buy Cabaye now, who I like, and then watch on grim-faced in the summer, as someone we would really, really want, goes elsewhere because Cabaye is now taking up wages and a place.

I wish I knew the answer :)

Or possibly cabaye could improve and really flourish at utd?

Halesini, you say it shows a signal that the Glazers are willing to invest, but it goes back to the old argument. Do we want them to spend money just for the sake of it, to show that it's there, to placate the mob, or do we want it spent on proper, top-class players?

StevieK

I agree mate.
However, we showed this summer that our attempts to sign world-class players are pretty pathetic. So what do we do? Allow good players to sign for other clubs, while failing to bid adequately for these world-class players? And all the while, losing key players like Rooney and quite possibly RVP.

Personally, I think we're going to find out in the next two windows that we simply do not have the muscle to sign world-class players. And by that time, dozens of perfectly good players who would have made a significant difference, have gone elsewhere.

19 Jan 2014 20:56:26
Alot of hating going on since yhe match and just to add my two pence worth. I yhink with a fit Van Persie and or Rooney up front that would have been a completely different result. We've always conceded goals, the difference now is we're not scoring.

19 Jan 2014 20:25:33
'Getting back near the top' as you say is not good enough imho! Again I will say it is about fans having different opinions on what is successful or not!

19 Jan 2014 19:48:10
When you have to change your manager and CEO in such a short space to time it was always going to cause problems.
Moyes was left with an ageing squad that no longer put fear into the opposition
.not selling Rooney was a mistake.
You have too many players that are bigger than the manager

Moyes was the wrong choice, your looking for another Alex Ferguson but you will never find him.

A big club gets a big manager, Munich and madid both got new managers and you got moyes.

I believe the glaziers are to blame, if they were to go for a high profile manager he would want a considerable WAR CHEST.

Not a piszz take just my thoughts


I think your problems go a lot deeper than just on the pitch

As I have said before, a fan of another club talking sense

If we'd sold Rooney in the summer we would probably be in the relegation zone right now.

Very good post Malaga gooner

I agree with the OP on all his points. The transition was never going to be easy. SAF, with the introduction of RVP, got enough out of the team to win us the league last season. Even if SAF was still manager, with the same set of circumstances that Moyes' finds himself in, would have struggled. Yeah, we might have more points on the board, but I doubt we would be top of the league, or even in the top three; for the problems are there for all to see, and have been there for the last three years.

All we can do as fans' is support the manager. I firmly believe that getting rid of him would only compound our problems. What he needs is time and financial backing from the owners: 5 top signings in the right areas would put us back in the mix domestically and in Europe.

I agree with the glazer bit. A bigger manager would not settle with what they are willing to give moyes . A lot of money needs to be spent to get the team up to scratch. It's not panicking it just obvious. It may not happen in January. My feeling is it won't happen in the summer either.

Some fair points, the only one I object to is the bit about too many players bigger than the manager. Which of our players think they're bigger than the manager? Rooney and RVP are our biggest players yet both have only shown public support for the manager.

Thanks Malaga Gooner. Spot on assessment.

Like all disasters, this one is multi factorial!

You are right about the change of manager and ceo being a problem that was never going to be easy to solve, but your wrong about the choice of manager and the fact he is fighting to keep Rooney, let's see what Moyes makes us with more time Roma was not built in a day, the future of the club is more secure than any other club in football we will get things right we have some of the best young talents in world football in our youth set up Wilson, Pearson, Pereira, will be amongst the finest products of our long running youth set up on par with our best products which we all know have been the best ever players to grace the prem and the future looks much better for us than even Arsenal a few years from now we will have no debt and the likes of Januzaj Wilson Pearson and Pererira will be classed as world class and will be tearing teams up for fun of this I have no doubt but I do think maybe within ten years the rich oil gliches will have had there share of football glory and bailed out leaving there teams to be brought by private corporates set on profit margins that make our debt look small long term even if this is the Glazers cash cow we will have so much money when the debt is paid then we will see what its like on an even playing field

We have three very winnable league games coming up. If we can win those three then we can see where we are. The Arsenal game we will have RvP and Rooney back and hopefully a player signed. Things may start to look different then, but we MUST win the next three league games.

Good post malaga gooner. We've been saying the same thing for a long time.
Katef, what makes you think that the oil billionaires will just get bored and sell up? Have you seen how much money abramovich has put into Chelsea? Have you seen how much work the city owners are putting into the community and into city as a club?
There is more chance of our lot getting a good deal and selling the club than the oil billionaires doing the same. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner they sell our club the better.

19 Jan 2014 23:19:04
Redseven-there is too much history between Moyes and Rooney, it was never going to work.

Ben80 their not going to slag him off,

Normfield-utd is firstly a business, the other 2 are a toy.UTD were originally the club that was throwing money around, you had it your own way for many years

Sydney you came on to arsenal page 2 years trying to tell me you know more about arsenal than I do.I told you back then when the glaziers had to sell shares to finance debt your club was on a slippery road and you laughed at me.
UTD is cash register for them, they will never spend 200 mill on new players

MG - And yet Rooney has been our best player by some distance? I'd argue that given that and the fact that Rooney is performing better than he has at any point for the last few seasons that it IS working.

Agree with more or less everything else you say - but selling Rooney last year would have been a huge mistake.

20 Jan 2014 00:58:49
Red seven, nRnooney is up in the shop window, off course he is playing out of skin.funny he's at warm climate training camp just as the window opened, sort of reminds me of the time city were after him.
Rooney tried to get out in the summer but the hierarchy not moyes decided not to sell him.

We have three very winnable league games coming up. If we can win those three then we can see where we are. The Arsenal game we will have RvP and Rooney back and hopefully a player signed. Things may start to look different then, but we MUST win the next three league games.

Sydney!

How many times have we said this, this season? 'The next few games are winnable. '

We're on the slide, at the moment. Yes, we have games against lesser teams, but every single team in the league fancies their chances against us right now and rightly so. They know we make mistakes at the back and that they can overwhelm us and outplay us in the middle.

They know that if they try and manmark Januzaj and Valencia sticks to his bread and butter, we can be predictable and easily shut down.

19 Jan 2014 19:33:00
No ifs, no buts, no maybe's, we have been linked to several players recently, scouting trips are fine as long as there is a signing at the end of the comings and goings! and please, please, do not come out with the old Fergie chestnut, "no value in the market!" I have watched United for over fifty years and the current crop of players apart from the obvious (too obvious to mention) are among the most ordinary we have ever had at the club!

Utter nonsense, remember the 70's and 80's?

{Ed002's Note - If you remember the 70s you weren't there.}

We do not need value. At the moment we need word class players. Whether we pay over the odds for them or not is irrelevant.

I was born late 80's does that count?

AJH

the 80's under Ron wer far better than the 2013's under moyes. 2 FA Cups. and several top 4 finishes.

If its the SAF 80's you may have a point.

Treble1999, how can you compare "the 80's and 2013"? But I suppose you are right, Moyes is rubbish. Any decent manager would have secured 2 FA Cups and several top 4 finished in 6 months.

Betty

Save your energy mate, some of the guys are so hard core there is no talking sense to them.

{Ed002's Note - If you remember the 70s you weren't there.}
That's the problem Ed. A lot of us were young and do remember it. An FA cup team who could not get near the first place. Christ with this weekend coming up we're no longer even that good. give me five Remi Moses in our present midfield any day of the week ( I know he just missed the 70's!)

I'd take coppell over nani and Valencia to be fair

19 Jan 2014 19:29:00
Enjoying reading some of the posts, sounds like the majority of us are backing our manager, moyes is the man guys! Let's give him our full support, I actually thought we played well today and where unlucky, there will be no signings this month, there's no point in panic buying for the sake of it. Excited to see who moyes has identified for the summer,

Nice optimistic post sir, me too, me too.

I thought we tried hard today, were a little unlucky but Chelsea were the better team, and certainly more clinical than us. If RVP and Rooney had been there then who knows but Welbeck is not a striker and Young was poor again.
Todays game changed nothing, just reinforced what we and David Moyes already know.

Moyes is the man in charge and therefore deserves our backing. He's also got an impossible task with an ageing squad who've all been there and won it and he hasn't. And clearly we need £100-150m investment in 5/6 class players to enable us to compete domestically and in Europe.

But just to be clear.

Moyes is not The Man lol

First half showed we're not creative or clinical enough in the final third without Rooney and RVP and can be sloppy at the back at times.

@Halesini
Though we all get older every year, the United squad isn't truly ageing.
The defence includes Evra Vidic and Ferdinand who are all over 30, and are likely to be replaced this summer, but the rest of the defence is either young or should be in its prime. De Gea, Jones, Smalling, Raphael, Evans, Buttner, and even Lindegaard, Johnstone etc. As regards midfield, only Giggs is over 30. In attack no-one is over 30, though Van Persie will be soon. and Janujaz is an utter revelation. So the problem isn't one of an ageing squad that can't last 90 minutes.

Here's a real heretical thought. The under 21s are doing very well. How about promoting one or two more or even giving an England International (viz Zaha) a chance?
Red Setter

Excellent post red setter. I mentioned our youngsters recently and was told it will be stupid to put them in. Can Pearson or powell or enkagamene not contribute to our woeful midfield? Can zaha not offer more than Ashley young?
I would rather see these players in the first team than the old brigade.

NM, Hazard would have really torn us a new one today, if Zaha had been playing with Rafael. Toni wasn't good either, but at least he has a sense of defensive responsibility.

If Zaha was good enough, then he would be playing. The staff get to see the players day in day out. Most here calling for him to play, saw him in a couple of pre-season games at most.

And why would he have been picked instead of Young, when they're playing on different wings? It would have to have been at Toni's expense.

We weren't poor today. Throwing those promising youngsters you mentioned, into today's game, and we, and they, would have been humiliated. What does that achieve? This was one of the top teams in the country we were playing, not a pre-season friendly in the Far East.

19 Jan 2014 18:58:52
I appreciate that we are missing players and that moyes has been sold a pup in terms of the quality of the squad (starting 11 is really where we lack top quality players ) but great managers over achieve and get more out of a team than its sum of parts!

My question is does anyone really believe that moyes will have the ability to get that extra bit, that little bit that makes all the difference (be it an extra effort from the players or great decision or whatever)between winning and losing? I'm not convinced and my biggest worry is that all the people who blindly 'Believe'no matter what will see an improvement (and that could be us making the top 4next season ) and then say I told you so, when really we should be up there with the bayerns and barca of this world, I suppose it just boils down to standardsdand what is exceptable to one fan is not to another!

Actually I believe ( BELIEVE BELIEVE) that we have the basis of a very strong team. DeGea, Rafael, Smalling, Evra, Jones, Fletcher, Januzaj, Rooney, RVP.

Where our problems lie are (pick any 4 from 6) Valencia, Fabio, Young, Nani, Buttner, and sadly Kagawa ( however good you think he is for us he's been pathetic).
When they become first choice (through injury or whatever) they simply are not good enough.

I have decided to stop asking or recommending us to sign megabucks, on players it simply is not going to happen. Still with diligent and well thought out player purchases, and giving our youth a chance. We cab still get back near the top it will just take longer.

Your post Grund, lost all credability when you included Evra :(

19 Jan 2014 18:53:04
Surely we are going to bring in at least
one new player in jan .Everyone can see
the squad is in need of a morale boost
and a new player always gives that boost
10 out and 8 in between july and august
i think

19 Jan 2014 18:16:27
ed 002,

just because some of us disagree about Moyes and want him gone doesn't make us fickle, that's just our opinion and as a season ticket holder I can tell you in my area I ain't on my own. I didn't think he was the right man before he played his first game due to personality.

we as a team historically always have a go and attack, Moyes historically takes the safe option and defends.

That is what I base my opinion on and I stick by it.

I wouls add that saf has to also take the blaim for leaving an ageing squad!

{Ed002's Note - I appreciate it must be tough to come to terms with change. It still leaves you as fickle. Area? We call it "hood" where I come from MF.}

19 Jan 2014 19:53:38
Ed did you enjoy the game?

{Ed002's Note - It is simply another game. It is history now.}

ED002

Definition of fickle;

Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments; capricious.

If you had a minute in your busy schedule to read a good portion of posts on here, you'd see that fickle isn't the Adjective to use.

regards.

MUFC Fans with an opinion.

Ed. Fickle would suggest we've turned against Moyes when in actuality there were a significant number of fans who thought Moyes was wrong for the job from the get go.

I and I assume everybody else still loves the club - but I am unable to support Moyes and what he is doing to the club. I'd have loved for him to prove me wrong but as of the moment he's actually been worse than I expected he'd be.

It's not even about success. I could deal with us being where we are in the league if I could see that Moyes had a plan of some sort but that's not the case. His failure to sign anybody other than Fellaini in the summer was bad but to have not lined up targets for this window is inexcusable!

19 Jan 2014 19:09:01
I thought we were a lot better today than we have been in recent weeks. We were well beaten in the end but I thought we were unlucky and Etoo was really lucky. Had hernandez started up top and welbeck inplace of young I think he might have had an hat trick from all the chances. Still conceding so early in the secong half totally killed it and we should have been better but we should take promise from this. THE ONLY WAY IS UP

19 Jan 2014 18:49:07
Sourness making sense on Sky today. United played well but in the important moments quality counted and Chelsea had the quality. Spot on!
For me, Moyes did his bit today. With the players he had fit, United played well but he needs extra quality. He says he knows who we need, so let's wait and see if Woodward and the Glazers back him. Summer transfer window was a debacle, this one is little better, and more of the same next summer will surely reinforce what a lot of fans already think, the Glazers will not spend! Time for them, even more than the fans, to stand up and support the manager!

We were unlucky for the first goal. A wicked deflection totally against the run of play. We should have had a penalty at 1.0. That was Souness' opinion and I agree with him.

But we were poor for the 2nd goal and our heads dropped after that. Chelsea were 2nd best in the first half, but they were clinical. Welbeck needed to be clinical today, but wasn't :(

19 Jan 2014 18:45:18
I haven't posted on this site for ages because it's become so depressing with all the negativity and berating of anything to do with our team. Most of you need to get a grip, yes it's not going how we want and yes our team is well below par, but this time next year we will have a completely different team and really today's results doesn't define our season. Our aim is to finish top four, simple, so start being realistic and stop living in the past. I honestly believe we will be fine, this season is just a blip and changes are going to happen. Some of you are absolutely shameful. If any of you have noticed, our away fans have been absolutely amazing this year and have backed the team all the way, regardless of the result, some of you should take a leaf out of their book and be a true supporter and not some fickle fan, just because we are not destroying everyone and sitting pretty at the top of the league. Still a long way to go, so don't write off everything just yet, bit of OPTIMISM wouldn't go a miss.

p.s Chelsea were average today and we were all over them first 15, just shows with a few improvements, what we could be capable of. Relax.

Away fans sounded brilliant as usual. When I used to get over more regularly, I always preferred away matches.

Hardly any daytrippers. Said the Ulsterman :)

19 Jan 2014 18:36:41
Whoever wants Moyes out, please show some class,
we have been stripped to bare bones in terms of quality due to injuries. Give him time till next december

Again, have some class, getting your BP high won't help the club to win, nor would it buy Vidal

The past 15 years of success given to us deserve a year or two of patience and calm by us, and if you cant, well you Sir are fickle.

Even with rooney and rvp we are not good enough you cannot rely on 2 players to save us everyweek our midfield and defense are both very poor

Well said DJ. You fans who only want success for this great club are fickle. If you have an opinion on DM that is anything less than holy, well you are without class. I no longer care if United win or lose as long as St David isn't scrutinised for his performance because I sir am a true united supporter of genuine class.

Two years, wake up will you, it does not take that long for empires to crumble, 26 years of hard work could be ruined, in 12 months, and people are allowing it to happen. Tell me again how long after busby did it take to win the league, after liverpools demise how long has been since they won the league, you have to act quickly.

Well said

Fickle, Fickle. I have been a red for 30 years. I have seen lean periods and enjoyed good times. during the lean periods I have witnessed, I saw a plan, direction and at times good football.

For the last 8 months I have seen nothing but dour crap.

Its can't all be Moyes blame but large portions are.

The players don't play for him, they don't respect him as he has no credentials.

He is negative and blind. He seems to think we are playing well, well Sir we haven't played well consistently for 4 years.

Sacking all the back room staff, draconian training regimes injuring players, FELLANI, 442, 7th in the league. 14 points off top. Need I go on?

I'm not sure silently watching somebody transforming the team we love from champions to a mid-table team would be a display of class.

I get what you're saying and genuinely believe that managers should be given time if they're able to show promise - but as of yet Moyes has failed to do so.

There are six areas by which a manager can be measured. Transfers - Fail. Training Regime - Fail. Tactics / Team Selection / Substitutions - Fail. Winning Mentality / Ability to motivate the team - Fail. Press / Media Obligations - Fail. Results - Resounding fail.

By the sound of it we had targets already lined up when Moyes came to the club. He chose not to sign any of them and wasted all of his time chasing Fellaini, Baines and Fabregas - eventually signing Fellaini at the last minute for more than his buyout clause. By the looks of things there was no chance of us signing the other two. This window he has told the press how there's a queue of top players wanting to come to the club and yet to this point has failed to make a signing - when there are hundreds of players who would strengthen our first eleven.

His training regime has broken RVP. We seem to have considerably more injuries than any other club or at any point in SAF's reign that I recall. The only player that seems to have shown any improvement since Moyes came in is Januzaj (maybe Rooney). Zaha is apparently not good enough to play despite being a better player than Valencia for large spells of last season. Is Moyes allowing personal issues with the player to affect his selection or has Zaha suddenly lost all of the ability we saw last season and in pre-season?

He's constantly played Kagawa out of position. He's selected Cleverley, Young, Ferdinand and Giggs way more than any sane person would have. Jones is still being played out of position. At times he has taken off attacking players to defend a single goal lead only for us to concede and drop points. His team selection for the Carling Cup the other week was abysmal - odd given that it's the only competition we have a chance of winning this season. He played RVP when injured and kept him on for longer than he had planned because he was scared of criticism from fans and pundits (he admitted this afterwards) - leading to another injury.

There have been several instances where players have come out and said that there is a lot of nervousness in the dressing room. We've lost games we should have won. Even when we have won it's seemed very lucky most of the time. He seemed resigned to the fact that we were going to lose today before a ball had even been kicked. Vidic does not want to stay. There are rumours of RVP and Rooney both being unhappy and wanting to leave as well. He's never won away at any of the big teams. He's won one of ten games against the top half of the table.

He always seems defensive in press conferences and is not a likable person (or at least does not come across as one). At times he has come out with embarrassing statements about how we can still win the league when anybody who knows anything about football believes that we do not have a chance. In one of his press conferences he labeled Rooney as back up for RVP. He came out after two ECL games and said we didn't stand a chance because we don't have the world class players needed to win the competition.

Tell me what Moyes has done to deserve time and patience and I will give him both. People have been on Evra's back for two years now because his performances have dropped a bit and that was after many years being one of the best LB's in the world. Some unsubstantiated rumours came out about Rooney handing in a formal transfer request in the summer and the fans turned on him instantly despite the fact that he has been one of our best players over the past ten years. All Moyes has done so far is embarrass himself and the club. I can't support that.

You telling me all the other top teams wouldn't struggle with their two main strikers out at the same time. Apart from City.

Rooney, Van Persie and Fellaini to just name a few. We will talk once Moyes has a fully fit bunch of players to choose from

Treble, your last paragraph is a great example of listening to rumours and gossip, rather than actually what happened.

StevieK

Most definitely they would struggle to score goals. But strikers don't play in the back 4 and any of the other top teams wouldn't be falling to pieces at the back due to a lack of fit strikers.

Also, they'd have creativity and drive in midfield to chip in with goals and assists to ease the strain somewhat.

They would struggle, of course, but not like this. This is not simply a matter of having our two best players injured, both play up front. Our issues run deeper than that.

Steviek lad, are we playing mostly 442 yes.

Is RVP and Rooney experiencing more than their fair share of injuries over the last 2 years. yes.

Is any off the previous back room staff still present no.

Are we 7th in the league. yes.

Are we 14 points adrift. yes.

Did we pay 28 mil for someone who would of cost 23 mil 7 wks before. yes.

its not rumors or tabloids, its another strange thing called facts.

WAKE UP.

Mate, if we had proper strikers, we could have been two up before our defence was even tested properly.

I choose not to reply to your respective questions till next december, let's see who eats humble pie then

Treble, they weren't all sacked, you have no idea what the training methods are, never mind if they're responsible for injuries, and Fellaini is an integral part of a team quietly fancied for the world cup this year, who all the top teams have been sniffing around at some point, and who's played a handful of games with an injury.

But if you've got all your info from Twitter and Sly Sports, then you must be pretty gullible.

MoyesK

Rene wasn't sacked, he choose not to work under Moyes.

Mike Phelan and Eric Steele were 'deemed not required'.

Fellani will not be integral to our side.

I have a personer account that I very rarely frequent. I enjoy Sky. My sources don't come from there.

I know that Under SAF Rio and Rvp have very specific training programs that have been discarded.

Question all you want.

Take them rose tinted off and think objectively.

P.S Are you related to Moyes? X X

19 Jan 2014 18:28:29
No doubt all the anti Moyes brigade will blame the manager again, but our players have to be better than this. Yet again we have lost the game because experienced, very well paid footballers cannot get to grips with basic defending. We have not been great this season, that is obvious. We have badly missed our best goal scorers and players. But, games are lost by conceeding goals, and we are conceeding far too many.Sometimes an opponent scores a screamer from 30 yards, you just have to hold your hands up and say well done. But the vast majority of goals we are letting in this season are the result of basic schoolboy mistakes. Again today, all 3 goals could, and should have been avoided. OK the first was a lucky deflection, but Eto should never be allowed to come inside that easily and get his shot away.
Whatever you think of Moyes, his teams are nothing if not well organised defensively. Infact, he is criticised, particularly on here (myself included), for being too defensive. Yet again today he has been badly let down by a bunch of highly paid numpties who seem to have forgotten the very basics of the game.
There is no doubt the team is not good enough to compete at the top, but they are better than this. We actually played fairly well today in general play. As usual we lacked a genuine goal threat, and again were on the end of a few questionable refereeing decisions. But quite simply, we lost the game because we defended like an under 12's team. Its about time the players started earning their wages, and helping the manager out a bit while they're at it.

Last time I checked it was the manager who has ultimate responsibility for getting the players to play at the top of their game. But I think given time and money DM will become the greatest manager in club football. NO DOUBT!

Defenders and particularly Rafael and evans let the side down. There's nit a lot moyes can do about Rafael defending for the second goal.
Players got to stand up and be counted.

And Young was there to cover for Evra. Kagawa just isn't a physical enough presence for us in games like this, much as I like the guy and much as I don't particularly rate Young. I can see why Moyes chose Young over Kagawa.

19 Jan 2014 18:16:43
The pessimists please try taking the positives. I know you prefer slagging the team and manager off, but today we played pretty well. Ask Chelsea if they think they have been in a game. An unlucky first goal and 2 pieces of poor defending punished us. On another day certainly with Rvp and Rooney we would get something from that game. We pressed the ball well, had some good possession, created chances but lacked the finish. If we keep that attitude, from now we will creep into the top 4. Remember what support means and get behind the team.

19 Jan 2014 18:10:33
Really hope moyes doesn't come out in his interview and say he thinks the team played well. Really need a couple signings to boost the team

Bloody hell he will get sacked if he comes out and says that instead of " there is no value in the market" which is what we have had to listen to for the last few years .

19 Jan 2014 18:05:41
Yes, we are missing our two best players and we did start brightly but it wasn't enough and we don't have enough for the big teams unfortunately. We haven't learned anything new today, we are a poor side that needs work. Our season is only going to be made worse by Vidic getting sent off. We are very lucky that Rafael hasn't been sent off, he's reverted to the old Rafael which was a poor player - he needs to rediscover his form quickly.

Jeez Fresh, the doom monger disease is catching. Poor team?

We are a side suffering with injuries and confidence. Yes we need players, but we know this very same squad can play better. Last season is proof of that. When RvP and Rooney return I expect us to start improving. Arsenal were struggling with the same side last season, signing Oezil gave them some much needed impetus and confidence grew. One cracking signing would change the mood of the players and install some much needed confidence.

19 Jan 2014 17:58:01
Ed, your going to need a bigger page

I was going to mention the similar line from Jaws, buy then I remembered there's a bloke called Schnydjer in it, and that could open a whole new can of worms :)

19 Jan 2014 17:50:44
How was that a red card? That was a yellow card. Even the Chelsea players were amazed at that.

{Ed002's Note - Only one red card was planned for Syd, just came a little early.}

That red card was hars, but the tackle that Rafael did could have been.

I agree no red card, rafael was a worse tackle later on.

Very true, Rafael was lucky, Vidic unlucky.

Yellow, for me. If, as expected, Vidic is leaving this summer, it's a shame he's leaving on a whimper.

My favourite player of recent times so it pains me to say - he's done.

19 Jan 2014 17:42:32
Take two world class players from any team and they'd struggle.

Nozzla mate, RVP and Rooney weren't going to help us in stopping those 3 goals.

We were embarrassing defensively.

True Nozzla, but maybe we need more world-class players then? We need a worldie in midfield and a worldie on the left wing.

Disagree. Some teams, like City, would be able to perform at a high level without their two best players, and top teams would not struggle, just be less good.

Remove Aguero and Kompany from City, would they struggle?

No excuses about the players we couldn't play, we fielded 11 united Players and if that's the standard of players United have now, then we are in big trouble.

This display has to wake up Moyes. The Job is a big one and unless he signs players soon he will find it getting bigger and bigger.

Obviously Rooney and RVP would have made some difference but if we are relying on them all season we are going to have a bad time.

19 Jan 2014 17:35:35
Que the optimists.

Queue the hysterical children. And folk that are poor at spelling. :o)

Isn't it cue?

Cue the pedants. And the folk who are terrible at spelling and grammar :o)

Not me mayt because I got an c+ in GSCE engerlish, so their :)

, fairplay Ginja & Db! My bad, too many jazz cigarettes I reckon. I'm going to read a book. on grammar! Although, you have to love the irony of being called out for being pedantic, by a fellow pedant. ;o)

19 Jan 2014 17:10:09
His time is surely up. Not just losing. Losing badly.

He doesn't deserve to stay at the club. I think most fans expected us to be a little off the pace after such a big change and maybe finish 3rd this season but he has took us so far back its unreal.

{Ed002's Note - So you think all of the players are fine and the manger who inherited an aging team needs to change? The new breed of fickle fan.}

I have to agree, far, far too backwards. Doesn't manage players like Ferdinand and RVP, hence their injuries. Doesn't invest in the squad, and even ADMITS that he underestimated what the rest of the world could see was the hardest job in football.

Some of the blame can go to the players too, but it's Moyes who has screwed us big time with the amateur back room staff and lack of new ideas.

Moyes will be here for at least 18 more months Nozzla lad. He was not my first choice, or 2nd or 3rd, but he will be given time.

You are joking right, no Rooney no RVP no Fellaini were competing the best we can its not easy Chelsea need to win more than we do, we have no chance to win the league but they do. We will finish top four and Moyes will get out the players we need out and ones in we do need sacking him now would be a big mistake people who say get rid of the manager need to grow up and get in the real world

Time to really cock it up. Though I have to say, the players are not helping. What was Rafael doing for the second goal? What was Evans doing for the third goal, allowing cahill a free header to knock it on to eto.
At some stage, the players have git to take responsibility too.

It was the hardest job in football and you lot all lose the plot when Moyes finds it just that, very hard. There has been too many silly mistakes in games but apart from that the football has been reasonably good for a squad that needs a fresh impetus

Cant believe people still think were top 4 material wake up it won't happen

It wasn't just Rafael Nomid, watch Evra & Vidic too, no man's land.

19 Jan 2014 17:05:59
I think we played fine 1st half, we just need some quality up front, and its just our luck 2 of europes top strikers are out injured.

What I can't get over is david before the game knows he's lost even before its started with all this "were going to try our best" nonsense, like what's that about? morinho loves that he doesn't need to get involved as much to win the game because the opposite manager knows they've lost before the games even started.

Buy some players Dave! :)

19 Jan 2014 17:00:29
2.0down at half time. Rooney must go said untd would win 3.0 so what went wrong. wellbeck is so overrated he couldn't score in a brothel. What a waste of talent leaving Zaha and kagawa out of the team. Looks like my early season prediction will be right 7th place at best.
Moyes has to go.this is relegation form at this rate.
This is not pessimistic it's reality.
How can the team that won the league last year be so bad it's disgusting. No matter what all you moyes lovers say it is his fault that we are where we are. We should be at least top 4. If ferguson was in charge we would be in top 4 easy yes it's not the best squad but you can't leave potentially two of the most talented players on the bench.
If I was Hernandez kagawa and Zaha I would ask for a transfer.

Nobody but Januzaj looks interested or even look like they care. It has been a shambles of a season and we are in desperate need of fresh faces.

Relegation Form? Won 6 löst 2 of the Last 8 in the League? We have lost this fixture on many occasions over the years and played much worse! The need for a scapegoat on this site is getting too much to bear we are all
dissapointed but the
witchhunt is getting creepy. Well i'm off to get my pitchfork Light my
acetalene torch an d look for DMs house.

19 Jan 2014 16:55:52
Just don't deserve to be losing. We've matched them all the way and with RVP and Rooney it might have been another game!

19 Jan 2014 16:52:56
Is Moyes the man with Midas touch, in reverse.
We are out of the Championship race now for sure and major doubt for top four.
Moyes turning champions into Everton, average, Europa league here we come, which writes off next season too

19 Jan 2014 16:51:54
Gcu you are wrong, velencia has stuck out wide as has young and wellbeck is playing in front or behind janujaz (they have Been switching positions ) so i'm sorry to tell you but this is 4-4-1-1 or in other words 4-4-2, no?

The only times we've looked dangerous are when Januzaj has had the ball out on the left - and when he has Young has effectively been out of the game.

He is playing with Jones and Carrick as holding mids in a 4231 with Janusaj and Welbeck and young switching position.

Valencia and young have both been playing wide it really isn't a 4_2_3_1.
We are playing 4_4_2 dropping in to 4-4-1-1 at times

Adan and Valencia are now playing out wide as part of a 4

19 Jan 2014 16:49:25
If Moyes had taken over at Chelsea this summer and they were on our points total at this moment in time, do you think he would still be there? I agree with stability but I also agree with success and don't think he can bring it.

The thing is moyes would never have been considered for the Chelsea manager's job in the first place. But in answer to your question, no.

{Ed002's Note - Mourinho was always going to take over at Chelsea - so a moot point.}

Don't let the real world get in the way of their little dreams, Ed.

19 Jan 2014 16:43:56
Just a quick question to fellow supporters. Can you remember a United side that were so poor in either box?

1973-74:side wasnt very good. These lot are a lot better though, they're just not organised, tactics wrong. Only one person can change that, the manager. There again, he's made them like that, so not sure where we go from here.

73 - 74 season when we got relegated and late seventies under sexton. We were pretty crap for a couple of seasons early on under Fergie as well.

I think 2003/2004 team not sure with smith upfront was pretty poor. remember us conceding quite a few and struggling with scoring.

19 Jan 2014 16:40:52
LOL, Truly an ugly game to watch with both teams not great and what a lousy goal to give away.

Welbeck just missed a golden chance and they reckon it could have been given as a penalty.

David Luiz is a red card waiting to happen.

Welbeck got taken out and should have been a penalty and sending off. But we're not getting these decisions at the moment.

19 Jan 2014 16:38:54
As if you would get a stonewall penalty at the Bridge.

A bit like getting a stonewall penalty at OT

19 Jan 2014 16:15:38
Just reading the pre match posts from a number of people. What a bunch of negative fans you are, nothing like getting behind the team eh?

3-0
The whole team barely look interested
Everton look like champions league winners in front of this lot
Ngiak can't believe his eyes
gan

19 Jan 2014 15:40:38
When is moyes going to learn that 442 just doesn't work in todays modern game chelsea will completely control the game with their 5 in midfield great news that jones is back but awful news that young is starting imo he is the worst player in our 1st team squad if I was kagawa and zaha as much as I love utd I would put in a transfer request as I would have NO trust or faith in a manager that continually pick that useless pile of s***e

……. is the word that comes to mind if you think we are lining up in a 442.

Try looking at the team sheet and the only thing it is not is 4-4-2. God give me patience :(

GCU I will eat some humble pie as we have actually played quite well but I don't know what game you are watching as this line up is most certainly 442. The problem we have at the moment is we don't look like scoring unless someone (januzaj) does something special moyes has chosen 2 wingers for the defensive work not their attacking capabilities they are both pony neither can beat a man both are extremely predictable and easy to play against and neither can cross to save their lives

Looks like we are playing 4_4_2 to me

Sorry . please explain how we don't have 5 in midfield.

Look like we're playing 4-4-2 to me. At least on the pitch. The only difference is that players are changing positions sometimes.

We are playing with two wingers and on both occasions they've got us down the middle. I did mention that earlier today cgu, but you told me that I was wrong and to play football manager. It doesn't take a genius ti see that Chelsea love coming inside. Si why have we only got two midfielders on? Before u say anything, fletchet cleverly kagawa all sat on the bench.
So I think what we've been saying for some time that u can't play with two wingers in these matches is come true again. Surprise??!

Jred

how do you see that as a 442 maybe all we have done is switch Welbeck and Janusaj around in a 4231.

Gcu
We are playing 4 in the middle with 2 out wide

19 Jan 2014 15:26:06
Can't understand the decision to start young. Why not play kagawa in behind welbeck. Baffles me

19 Jan 2014 15:19:56
So, todays line up:
DDG Rafael Evans Vidic Evta Jones Carrick Valencia Young Januzaj Welbeck.
Not sure if they ate carrying knocks, but would have expected to see Kagawa and Fletcher keep their places. Good to see Jones in there though.
Ashley Young to score today anyone?

19 Jan 2014 15:19:23
Young or Januzaj playing in the hole?

Januzaj, Moyes is playing Young to cover for Evra. Very defensive line up, so no surprises.

Danny, I think it's the exact line-up I'd pick. Evra needs help which goes without saying. Kags or Januzaj are not as good as Young defensively and Januzaj would be wasted there. Rooney and RvP are massive holes to fill, I hope Danny can put his chances away today.

19 Jan 2014 15:13:27
No kags and young is in so its 4-4-2 and I think this is a massive mitake! On the plus side jones is in so we can still hope :)

Agree 100%. I hate to say it but if I was Kagawa or Zaha I would be putting in a transfer request right now. Moyes doesn't know talent when its playing under his nose, so what luck do we have in the transfer market.

How is that a 442?

It is a 4231 or 451 depending how you want to look at it. I like the formation because it offers us bite on the offensive front and shape defensively. Trying to defend for 90 minutes is not our way of playing.

19 Jan 2014 13:16:12
Ed, a bit of a stab in the dark. But if the Coentrao move doesn't materialise, will we be transferring our gaze towards Filipe? I think one of the ed's said that we have a very firm interest in him - could he be an alternative option for January? Also, are there any updates on our interest in Lallana?

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - You have answered the first question yourself. There is interest in Filipe. What interest in Lallana are you referring to?

I heard that we were one of the clubs keeping an eye on a move for Lallana, but this was from someone linked with a different club, not Manchester United. And thanks ed, do you know if Atleti would be willing to strike a deal?

{Ed002's Note - Try the search function.}

There is next to nothing about Filipe when searcher for.

I just can't understand why we haven't been able to sign an LB.

Are we saying that there are only 2-3 realistically signable LBs who are better than the current Evra?

I really doubt that.

19 Jan 2014 16:42:22
Rooney must go, you must be drunk or lost you memory. It's 2014 not 2004. Ferguson is not the manager it's the old Preston manager the one with the empty trophy cabinet

19 Jan 2014 12:25:39
I really do think we will buy cabaye in this window! specially after pardews comments just now!
everyone has there price he says!

Looking forward for today I think we may surprise a few and play well maybe a 1-0 win or a draw if we do!

if we don't start well I can see us losing badly like 3-1 4-1

Hope you enjoy the game!

If we score the first goal then we won't lose. If they score first and early then it could be embarrassing.

We should of bought cabaye in the summer twice the player of Fellaini and plays even better in a France shirt around better players.

19 Jan 2014 10:56:26
what does everyone think of yohan cabaye? he keeps scoring goals for newcastle and is a proven premier league player. I don't think he would cost us more then 20 million which compared to the other midfielders we have been linked to is quite cheap and is proven in the league

Not if we can get someone like Gundogan. He's a good back up target to have though.

I think he is just what we need but cannot see him being less than 30m, Newcastle will want top money that's for sure I think we need to look from within if we don't have the money, Pearson is a cracking player and could do a job I have no doubt, my worry is if Carrick or Fletcher get injured then we are in deep sh1t without a new addition to replace the hapless Anderson

Not sure, but Jono says he's rubbish

19 Jan 2014 00:59:39
I was wondering what everyone thought was on Rooney if he leaves in the summer who would you like to replace him with

Luis Suarez

Any of the top strikers in the world are going to cost us a lot of money, rumour has it that moyes wants edinson cavani.
I would be happy with him but I still think if we are going to buy a top striker that we should go for falcao. he is an absolute beast, still realatively young and has scored goals inspain, portugal and now france

Shinji Kagawa. I still feel he has a lot to offer United, even he has admitted that he needs to improve his strength as well as his performances. He was the german player of the year in 2012 for a reason;)

Then in a dream world get Reus and two of Koke, Vidal, Gundogan, Herrera. Playing a 4321 formation with Rvp up top. That would be some attacking line up.

Costa ;)

Someone more of A dribbler than a center forward. in the mould of Suarez and Aguero.
Taison or Alex Texeria from Shaktar come to mind.
Juan Mata would be nice aswell

Cavani, a top class striker would be needed and he fits the bill. According to reports this morning he wants to test himself in the EPL and be a star like Suarez.

As I said Cavani, but would also love to see Juan Mata here. Our starting 11 is going to look radically different come September the 1st, I think Moyes wants to do a lot of business and knows that there is much to do.

If Rooney goes and actually I am coming around to the idea it may be the right time, we need someone mobile strong and quick. RVP is not quick and is too injury prone so I would look at Costa. Falcao is probably the best but would we pay over £50m for a player near to 30? Cavani is good but is he a bit hot and cold? more avid watchers of him can advise on that.
We would someone creative as well

{Ed004's Note - I would rather we sold Rooney and replaced him with two wide men. I think we look a lot more fluid team when Kagawa plays central so I would be more than happy with Kagawa beside Di Maria (who apparently isn't happy at Madrid due to the fans booing him about 20-25 mill IMO) and Reus who has a 30 mill release clause. Sell Rooney for hopefully 35ish mill and Young for anything we can get and that's it covered. Also Nani and Anderson to sell. Then we need two mids, lb and cb with this apparent 'pot of gold' we are claimed to have. You could get Garay and Coentrao for close to 30 mill probably a bit more}

I agree ed, although I think one world class winger and another potential world class winger. If we sold Rooney, Young and Nani and had a starting line up behind RVP of Januzaj, Reus/Mata & Kagawa it would be superb. Then have Griezmann as the winger that has bags of potential to rotate. The beauty of the system would be that every player is comfortable in each others positions.

If Rooney is to go to Chelsea then we simply have to insist upon signing Mata in my opinion.

Fresh
I would sell Rooney abroad and would be very nervous about selling him to Chelsea as he may just be a big piece of their jigsaw

He could be a bit of their jigsaw, or he could be a flop - look at Torres. Rooney will have a lapse back to poor fitness, he has bit fit but is getting increasingly injury prone. If Kagawa plays today and performs well then I think we would all feel comfortable in letting him go. Obviously major investment is needed, I hope that our list is:

Coentrao, Garay, Gundogan, Vidal, Mata, Lallana, Cavani - something like that is needed. Positionally as the ed says we need a left back, centre back, a couple of central midfielders and possibly two attacking players depending on departures.

{Ed004's Note - I don't think a striker is of urgent need just yet. RVP, Hernandez and Welbeck would be fine for next season. Spend money wasted on Cavani and Lallana on two world class wingers to supply RVP}

While it isn't that urgent it'd make much more sense if we got an out and out striker such as Cavani or Diego Costa then simply play Shinji in the number 10 position. He has all the skill to thrive there just needs time in that position in the PL so he can actually adapt.

RvP may be good for another season but I can't say i'm that confident on his fitness. Chicha isn't good enough, will probably do better if our wide players started performing though. Welbeck seems to be on the rise, fingers crossed.

Why is everybody assuming that Rooney will leave? I think he will stay. There is not much interest from European clubs, and United will definitely not sell inside of the EPL, would rather let him run his contract down like Lewandowski.

Getting a good deal at United is his best option, especially if we make the right signings in the summer, there will be no reason left whatsoever for him to leave.

I agree with Ed004. Instead of strikers, why not buy a good left winger like Reus, a proper CM and continue persisting with Januzaj?

{Ed004's Note - I worry though is it too much to expect Januzaj to be a regular again next season. We don't want him burning out. Would we be better off signing Di Maria etc and rotating them?}

I think the club did their best to sell him to PSG in the summer, but I think he wasn't having none of it and only wanted Chelsea. I wouldn't sell him to Chelsea unless Mata come the other way. If he doesn't want to sign a new deal and insisted on moving to Chelsea only, then I would let him run his contract down. There is no way we would get £35m for him with 12 months left on his deal.

No Syd the club didn't try to sell Rooney even if that's what you would of liked, they have said to him stay prove yourself and get a new contract hence why he is still here, PSG would of bitten our hand off at any price and if we wanted PSG to buy him he would of left

Kate, I wouldn't have sold Rooney unless we brought in some replacements first and unless he was sold abroad. I made that very clear last summer. However I believe SAF wanted to sell him in the summer, I think Moyes didn't. I hope Rooney signs a new deal, but he will only do that if the money is right.

19 Jan 2014 00:32:47
If it's true that Mourinho was heard sobbing down the phone when not offered the united job, what do you guys think of the man? Passionate?he apparently thought guardiola was our 1st choice and when guardiola was took the bayern job he thought he was the clear favourite. No smoke without fire.

He was probably laughing after hearing Moyes was appointed :(

Call me a fool, but Queiroz assisted by Solskjaer would have been my call.

I think he really wanted the job. His sycophantic job application when we played Madrid last year was nauseating. I don't doubt we would currently be in a better position if we had appointed him but I think he is not what we want at our club. That doesn't mean I think DM was the right choice but please God, not Mourinho.

Why not Mourinho? He's a winner and very much in the fergie mould. He plays the same games fergie did, superb tactician, fiercely competitive, wins trophies. So I don't understand why not Mourinho.
Too late now anyway. We're stuck with dm.

The first manager after SAF was always going to be difficult and needed a strong experienced manager who had already demonstrated achievement with top level players, pretty much what Gill said we needed. Mourinho is one of the many who would have been a better choice as manager with better credentials. Widely acknowledged as one of the best coaches in the world. I would rather he was in our dugout today than theirs. In terms of what he says that annoys people look no further than what SAF said, then it was mind games. The man we should have got was Klopp but we are where we are.
On the subject since Gill said what we should be looking for and then appointed Moyes has Gill given any interview or made any comment? Was his opinion overruled when SAF chose Moyes?

Why not Mourinho? Because he is an egotistical nasty vindictive ahole. We are not a city or Chelsea! we do things differently. He is not right for United in use same way he is not right for Srsenal.

Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp, Ancelotti, Hiddink have the breadth of winning and euro experience which, if we were to interview 5 people, would have been the short list. I appreciate there are others you could add to the list and that would certainly include Wenger for example if based on style of play.

The bottom line is we selected, for whatever reason, a manager without the required experience hence this represents, to anyone who has eyes, a gamble. But DM is here now so let's get behind him and hope the Glazers back him sufficiently so we have the £200m+ investment in the squad that would still leave us way behind what the likes of City and Chelsea have spent since Glazers took over.

My per sinks view is, given Guardiola Bayern post and Ancelotti at Real, Hiddinks age etc this should have been a straight fight between Mourinho and Klopp. Klopp would have brought flair football and success. Mourinho would have brought his more defensive but very effective winning style.

I'm just not sure what we thought we would get with Moyes other than someone who can stay in a job for ten years having v little budget to play with. And it's the latter point that's the most worrying.

Hopefully our current slide will force the Glazers to invest in their brand or sell up to someone who will.

Redman

Keyboard warrior back at you LOL. Gill said he was unanimous choice and completely behind the appointment. Read his interview, you can google it. Chicken Little, Chicken Lickin I see:)

Halesini

I think after Guardiola or maybe Blanc, dm was the best choice mate. Many might look back in 5 years and feel very silly with these views or not :)

Unfortunately I am doomed in my trust of SAF, SBC and the leadership at the club and will always lean towards defending him until he proves he is wrong for the job.

Halesini

I could not agree more

There should have been a professional process for such a big job and a smooth transition. Instead we got foisted with Moyes and a terrible transition that was embarrassing last summer.

Mourinho ruined any chance he had of getting the United job after the eye gouge incident. Shows that he can't be completely 100% professional.

GCU

I quote the words of Gill before Moyes was appointed. Moyes clearly didn't meet the criteria Gill himself set.

"Clearly he's got to have the requisite football experience, both in terms of domestic and European experience. It's a small pool, but we'll move forward."

Gill cannot say anything other than it was unanimous after the event otherwise it would undermine the manager gravely. Even you must know that.

Red Man, the editor did tell us that fractions of the MU hierarchy wanted Pep Guardiola. MU were disappointed when he chose to go to Bayern.

REDMAN

Yawn Yawn, I know you think he is the wrong guy for the job. Don't use conspiracy theories and children's bedtime stories to keep arguing your point.

Chicken Little anyone:)

I personally couldn't care that Jose is an arrogant, manipulative self-publicist, which he is by the way. Fergie wasn't exactly an easy-going barrel of laughs.

I could live with that, even though I think he would eventually bring our club into disrepute with his clownish antics.

I just don't want someone managing my club, who tried to gouge a fellow professional. It's that simple. I'm not expecting the guy to be a saint, but I do expect him not to do things that would get him arrested in the street.

But obviously some on here are more concerned with short-term glory, rather than the reputation of Manchester United.

GCU

"Don't use conspiracy theories and children's bedtime stories to keep arguing your point."

I think the quote from Gill was quite clear but doesn't suit your argument so you turn to childish behaviour again.