Manchester United Banter Archive March 19 2018

19 Mar 2018 23:12:47
Best post of the day for me has been from leahy.
Shaw should now be busting a gut to prove the manager wrong either here or at another club. If he does that and emds up fulfilling his potential i'd lay any money if you ask him when he was 50 what turned your career arond he will point to this week.
If he fails and doesn't turn his career arond well then he can't blame jose he is only 22 if he can't recover from this then he doesn't deserve to. If he was my son i'd be saying listen to your manager he knows more than you or me.

19 Mar 2018 23:17:14
I wonder if Kevin De Bruyne thinks Jose turned his career around?

19 Mar 2018 23:27:08
Did the same with Salah, and his confidence in Lukaku pushed him to become the player he signed for treble what he sold him for. José’s record with young players is sketchy to say the least. Doesn’t seem to have any capacity to help them develop.

19 Mar 2018 23:36:29
Ask him when he is retired jred. Nothing wrong with being rejected if you come bsck stronger. Maybe if he had sat in the reserves at chelsea or on the bench for 3 years he wouldn't be the player he is today. Great example of what shaw can achieve if he keeps his head down and uses this as motivation. But will he do it is he good enough. Only luke shaw has the answer within his control.
I think that's probably the most sensible thing I've seen from you in the past 5 years. Great example well done jred. 👏👏👏👏👏.

19 Mar 2018 23:46:38
Ken
100%
like KDB Shaw has the talent.
KDB has been pretty critical of Jose not sure Shaw will be singing his praises
I had a funny feeling you would come up with a post like this;)

19 Mar 2018 23:52:21
I wouldn't mind a manager being hard on a player if he wasn't performing. BUT can anybody hand on heart say that Shaw has been bad when he has played this season? Granted he hasn't been amazing, couple of dodgy games, but he has been no worse and often better than most of the other players when he has actually been picked.

Of course he isn't going to be super fit if he is dropped after being one of our best players and 'rested' for several weeks. Couple that with his obvious trouble keeping weight off. It feels like the manager is doing whatever he can to make life difficult for the lad and I find it deplorable.

Shaw was incredible before he got injured. Those of you backing the manager in this are simply 'trusting' the manager's obvious vendetta/ double standards over what your eyes tell you.

I thought the pitch is where you are meant to do your talking, why is it different for Shaw? Maybe if the manager would stop messing around with the LW position that might help as well? A bit of consistency wouldn't go amiss with team selection or at the very least being consistent with what is considered a bad performance, Shaw seems to start each game with -10 in his column. It's a joke.

19 Mar 2018 23:56:26
"It is true that he said in the press that I wasn't doing what was needed in training, "
"It was easy to say that because there was no-one to check it - the training sessions were closed to the public. But everyone knows I am not like that.
"I never let anyone put me down. I say what I have to say, with respect of course. But at that moment, I couldn't do anything because he would have said I was lying and afterwards he would have used it"
KDB on Jose. Not a great relationship.

20 Mar 2018 00:04:56
Well talent only brings you so far at tbis level. If he has the mentality then he has no worries its not like thete is a shortage of football clubs to play for. Some say kdb best in europe at the moment i'm not so sure shaw will reach tbose heights but very few do. But he can still be a top player its not too late for him but he does have to change a lot in order to be one of the best.
As paddy maguinness would say the power is in his hands.

20 Mar 2018 00:15:07
The power is in Jose's hands I think Ken.

20 Mar 2018 00:45:12
time for a change of manager his negative attitude has a stagnant cloud hanging over the whole place, bring in the attack minded Pochettino.

20 Mar 2018 06:49:25
Beast, good post. He was challenged by Jose, he came back and played well, got a heap of praise off the Manager, and was immediately dropped. He is then out of the team again for a couple of months, comes back, plays ok for a half, gets hooked and berated in need the press.

Shaw might not win a tribunal for bullying but if he made a complaint in house I suspect Jose would be told to give it a rest. According to the hspysterocal tabloid press there are already concerns from both other players and board members about how Jose is treating Shaw.

We have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but when he has played he has done well, yet he then gets dropped. I thought he was ok the other night so not sure again why he was the one singled out. I think Shaw can go on to be a top quality player who has a great career, I hope it’s with us but I fear it won’t be.

20 Mar 2018 06:56:28
What’s this obsession with Pochettino? I like him but he has to show he is a winner to be our manager, get over the line more than once. His teams seem to fall at key moments and that won’t be good enough here.

As for Shaw, LvG made comment about him, I read his lifestyle just was not conducive to playing at our level. We don’t know, we can only speculate what goes on behind closed doors but perhaps successive managers have tried different methods and it now needs a shock to him. He reacted to LvG criticism and played well until his terrible injury. It’s about how he reacts now. Remember Busby put Law on the transfer list to bring him round.

20 Mar 2018 07:26:27
Ken. Finally agree! But don't hold your breath over Shaw!

20 Mar 2018 07:32:43
Beast, Shaw has the talent but hasn't a football brain and definitely hasn't got the mentality and self control of a top footballer. Defensively, he's all over the place. That's why mourinho doesn't trust him.
Do I like the way mourinho keeps on publicly shaming him? Of course not.

20 Mar 2018 07:40:19
Every manager he has played for has raised the same concerns so there is obviously an issue with Shaw.

And I thought one of the eds said KdB left Chelsea had nothing to do with Jose.

20 Mar 2018 08:02:12
Mort
Was that not Lukaku.

20 Mar 2018 08:16:04
Shaw has been nothing short of dreadful.

He hides in games and doesn't want the ball. If you don't believe me just watch him if he gets another chance. He stands next to his man so he can't receive the ball and gives us absolutely nothing. Seriously next time your at Old Trafford just watch him for 15-20 minutes. Just watch his positioning, just watch if he wants the ball, just watch if he makes any overlaps, watch his work rate, how quickly he gets up and down the pitch. He doesn't even want to be out there in my opinion. Go back and watch his games and tell me I'm wrong.

I challenge anybody to name a single game when Shaw has played anywhere near the level of a world class full back. I bet you won't find one. He's done ok in some games but no better than Blind or Young and that's why he can't get in the team. He's had numerous chances and failed to deliver. Compare him to Rashford who came back against L'pool and bagged a brace. Compare the desire, intensity, dedication, work rate.

As for bullying I don't think taking somebody off at HT amounts to bullying. If Shaw was our best player and he gets hooked then fair enough but he clearly wasn't. Jose has publicly praised him on occasions as well. All
I can see is a manger desperately trying everything he can in order to get a reaction and performance from a player.

It's Shaw's responsibility to perform on the pitch.

It's not worked out for him at Utd. Let the lad go and play somewhere else, salvage his career and wish him luck. I think we're barking up the wrong tree with this one.

20 Mar 2018 09:00:08
Shaw was a risk worth taking but it hasn’t worked out. As Mort said, every manager he had played for had called him out for his diet, attitude and the company he keeps. I know some people at Southampton who commented that he was not trusted to be left alone as he would constantly be eating junk food etc.

There is no doubt he is a good footballer, he just hasn’t got the mentality for a top club where I can only imagine the pressure to play well and go above and beyond every single day is too much for him. Let him go where there is less scrutiny and pressure. Time to move on and upgrade our full back options. Personally, I’d upgrade Smalling and Jones, and we will need to replace Carrick and Fellaini too. Martial has one more season to become the player we hope he will be.

As for KDB, I think you’ll find Fergie did the same sign Pogba but you don’t hear this anymore. One mistake is hardly the end of the world. Plus, the Chelsea players at the time all agreed he wasn’t good enough to start and he moaned a lot. Salah was up against Hazard, Robben etc. And Lukaku couldn’t get a game in front of one of the best strikers we have seen in this country in Drogba who was simply world class. Get over it guys it’s crazy to dwell on all this.

20 Mar 2018 09:15:32
Good post Eric.

20 Mar 2018 11:31:38
Thanks ken, any chance of a good job.
A cushy number now I'm looking for.

20 Mar 2018 12:00:37
Leahy no cushy numbers and you'll only be allowed get your hair cut twice a year😂.

20 Mar 2018 12:07:22
Ok I'll work hard and grow my hair.

19 Mar 2018 21:23:42
Nice to see people talking about martial situation, all that money, all that talent, all that potential, and yet he's shunted out onto the wing! but nothing will change for him at utd, lukaku will always be no.1,even in games where his style of play is not suited, so can anyone really be surprised that he's looking at what's out there? when mourinho was at chelski he made a big thing about needing a striker with an average of at least 1 goal in 2 chances, now lukaku is a very good striker, but by jose's standards he's not! so if your a young striker at united, and jose doesn't 'trust' you, you'd better get used to playing a supporting role, now this happens in every team, but its amplified more at united because his specialness has decided to go against the age old tradition of keeping it internal and open the can of worms to the media, i wonder how that worked out for jose in the past, and more importantly, apart from lukaku (personally i don't think he's mentally strong enough), and matic, which other signings have been a success, torn up trees or squared the circle?, maybe this summer he'll get the final parts to the jigsaw he thinks he's missing, but at what cost financially, and at what cost to the youth team and developement squad?

19 Mar 2018 21:38:00
Is lukaku not a young striker?

19 Mar 2018 21:47:38
He is angel. Improving weekly too imo taking the managers instruction on board.

19 Mar 2018 22:27:40
Martial needs to perform more consistently and show more hunger and movement on the pitch. He drifts out of games far too often. He is good centrally and can be used as a backup striker but he does not have the presence and physique to be the main striker (like a RVN or RVP) nor does he have the sublime skill of an Aguero for the lack of physicality to hardly matter.

19 Mar 2018 22:12:15
Doing well lukaku just the type of striker we needed .
A positive to take from the season and still young for a striker.

19 Mar 2018 22:36:37
Plenty of positives for me. Lukaku definitely one.

20 Mar 2018 00:30:37
I massively doubted Lukaku but what an improvement from the young lad. He has been our best player for me this season and his all round game has come on leaps and bounds. It’s very frustrating that he is labelled a flat track bully when he is clearly and intelligent and hard working guy. He is one of the few players who does not hide on the pitch and cares when we lose.

He is so passionate and truly grateful to have the opportunity to play for a club of united’s stature. Other players such as pogba should take a lead out of his book and realise that humility and diligence goes a long way in fulfilling your potential. Talent is not enough alone. Lukaku consistently says he wants to be the best and works his socks off for it.

I have never heard pogba declare he wants to be the best. I would give rom the captain’s armband next season and watch him flourish because he is not a shirker when the times get hard. Good on you rom I’m chuffed to bits and long may he continue to improve next season.

20 Mar 2018 06:51:01
I didn’t want Lukaku. It he’s winning me round. His effort and work rate are phenomenal and he has added assists which I didn’t see happening. If he keeps developing he will be a top top striker soon.

19 Mar 2018 19:09:17
"Mourinho's treatment of Luke is an absolute disgrace. If he has a problem with him the decent thing to do would be to keep it in-house. If this kind of abuse happened in any other workplace there'd be a case for constructive dismissal. It's disgusting, "
Strong words from the Shaw camp.

19 Mar 2018 19:22:40
Nonsense.

19 Mar 2018 19:35:21
Just to clarify that fid not come from shaws camp. It came from and i quote 'a siurce clise to luke shaw' which could be anybody from hus locsl sweet shop or kebab shop.
More sensationalism for the brain dead click bait morons.

19 Mar 2018 19:35:38
i think its a bit of both if i am honest. Shaw's fitness and discipline is clearly poor and he cannot seem to keep himself in shape. What i find bewildering is that jose praises him as the having potential to be the best lb in the league and suddenly he does not play until the other day, where he is unfit.

On the other side, i think it is clear shaw has a weak mentality and it seems that the injury he sustained has caused a lot of mental issues. So jose lambasting him so publicly is a bit harsh. But we do not know the ins and outs. Maybe jose has put the arm round the shoulder and tried the good cop approach and it is nt working. I am not sure what more can be done with shaw except his time is up and he has wasted an enormous opportunity that people would give anything for. I hope he is a success elsewhere because he has enormous talent.

What we need is players who have the mentality to play for united and are not awed by the stage or pressure that comes with the club. He does not have that (along with others) and he should be moved on. The only thing I will say is jose does seem to only criticise shaw in such a vicious fashion when there are other players in the team that are worthy of a tongue wagging publicly as well. I do not think there is anything wrong with a manager publicly slating a player. But the issue I have here is jose is the one who should be looking at himself and not blaming others as he cannot get this group of players to even play with intensity and any sort of attacking cutting edge.

19 Mar 2018 19:46:10
Ken - you mentioned the other day that you sacked 2 nice guys that didn't perform for your successful business. Out of interest when the 2 guys still worked for you did you get all your workers together and tell them that you had 2 guys who just weren't up to the task they couldn't reach your standards, no matter how hard you had tried with them, they couldn't perform to your required standards.
Obviously it's a personal issue so if you choose not to reply then I respect your privacy.

19 Mar 2018 20:21:45
Luke Shaw should have been dealt with in house, If Jose doesn't rate h7m why play him in the first place.
It's just Jose picking an unsettled player to have a go at 8n front of world football.
I l8ke to play hard myself and have managed a few under age teams but come on you don't do that.
The boys confidence must be shot now.
If Shaw is not want United need then let him go but give the boy some dignity.

19 Mar 2018 20:32:25
Apparently neither Shaw nor Valencia did as they were told but Shaw gets hooked and another public slating. It’s bullying, pure and simple, the public berating of a player when there are plenty playing as badly. Irrespective of how well or not a player is playing there is no need to go public.

19 Mar 2018 20:44:22
Jose stated he would have taken both off if he had another sub actually ajh. Read the facts not the hyberbole click bait.

19 Mar 2018 20:57:04
Sigh, you can’t help yourself can you ken? Jose said he took Shaw off because “at least Antonio defensively was capable of good positioning”. So, not only was Shaw crap going forward he couldn’t defend either apparently.

19 Mar 2018 21:05:16
There's nothing can be done about it now but if I was Shaw I'd say right I'll show you Jose. I'd run my b#lix off get as fit as I could, i have the ability I was one of the most sought after left backs a few years ago
Right come on Luke do it for yourself mate.
Even if you go to another club, I hope you get it together
At this stage I'd sack Jose before I'd let you go.

19 Mar 2018 21:08:16
Keanooh. It was slightly different. I've had to let loads of people go over the years for a variety of reasons as all employers do.
The 2 guys i referred to were both given every opportunity to turn things around. Both were subject to their figures displayed in front of all staff at both regional and national sales meetings and indeed international sales meetings.
I have a degree in hr management and i'm very familiar in employment law in europe the far east and in the states and there are big differences in all regions.
Without knowing all the facts as none of us do but based in what's in the public domain i can assure you that the club or manager would not have a bullying case if raised by shaw upheld.
The manager is contractually obliged to give public press conferences and is obliged to answer questions on player appraisals. He can choose the level of how much he wanted to share but cannont be sued for giving an honest answer to a question he is contractually obliged to answer.
He didn't have to be as forthright as he was but cannot be sued for giving his opinion.
Foul and abusive language for example towards an employee on a continual basis could mean a claim in most work places but in football it would not be upheld due to the amount of precedence.

Its quite funny listening to people talk about subjects they have no idea about.

The same people posting on here that aguero was right to throw a kick or slap at a supporter slamming the pc brigade are now trying in their ignorance to jump on a pc wagon that they have no education on.

Shappy earlier asking what sort of world we live in when people can be ridiculed in public but he himself admitted on here he vandalised a blokes car for upsetting him. Strange mentality. Obviously out of character for shappy and he also said he deeply regretted his actions so i would have thought he would be a little more tolerant.

Jose actially substituted matic one time 20 mins after putting him on. Lots of managers have done that.

Its a tough world out there if your employee publicly defies instruction he should be called out for it I've no issue with it at all.

Lots of reasons why employers or managers do what they do but trust me jose broke no law.

19 Mar 2018 21:32:24
Come on Ken, mate. "Its quite funny listening to people talk about subjects they have no idea about. "

Have you heard yourself?

19 Mar 2018 21:36:30
I hope none off them people were sacked for spending all there time on the internet .

19 Mar 2018 21:52:59
I get confused by you jred. are we still trusting in Jose?

19 Mar 2018 21:55:55
Strange comparison to make. How can understanding someone's right to defend themselves against an aggressive yob, be at odds with sticking up for someone who you believe to have been unfairly treated, especially one in a less powerful position than the other?

19 Mar 2018 21:40:13
Do we think Jose didn't try and deal with this in house already and it may not have worked?

19 Mar 2018 21:43:07
Sigh sigh tony you just can't help yourself. ' both full backs i wanted to change but i had no substitions left open to me' jm.

19 Mar 2018 21:49:45
If its during working hours jred it would be a case for instant dismissal.

19 Mar 2018 21:59:54
Sepp
I agree with Ken on that point his posts about the footy always cheer me up 🤣🤣🤣.

19 Mar 2018 22:00:58
Angle in Jose we trust pal he can do no wrong.

19 Mar 2018 22:03:19
Sepp what's your problem? People are posting that shaw is being bullied which is not the case on what's in the public domain. Its funny becaise they don't know what constitutes bullying in a legal sense. If they did they woild be writing that.
The case at chelses with the doc/ physio was upheld because she was prevented and instructed and stopped doing her job and over ruled by jose where he had no authrity to do so and could have endangered the player and her reputation. Empliment law is a complete minefield and is becoming a very difficult and expensive area foot any business.
Any and all business owners are cimpelled to train and educate anybody that bandages personnel. The sue culture from the states has made its way over here and is causing gavic and while its important to look agger all employees its also important not yo strangle businesses with protocol expense and regulations that could but that business under.

In fact a lot of entrepreneurs are looking to outsource their hr function as the laws are so confusing. Hr law is a huge growing market and i'd advise any young school leaver to look at it as a potential career if they have an eye for detail and an ability to be able to stay calm in high pressure situations.

19 Mar 2018 22:22:20
You've missed my point, Ken. On a side note, I didn't know you could get a degree in HR.

19 Mar 2018 22:24:34
Jose did have subs tho he only made one change at half time .
And fellaini only come on in the 88th minute.

19 Mar 2018 22:15:38
That's the ooint Angel. Nobody knows what's gone on behind closed doors. Nobody knows the facts. Jose could well be bullying shaw I've no idea. But giving an apprsisal in an interview he is contratually obliged to give is not bullying.
He does not have to tell the truth in said interview but he can if he chooses to. Lots of managers say or do things tbey later regret. Me included i'm sure everybody on here is no different. Becks took a boot in the head. Big ron made a racist remark on tv.
People on here jumping on joses back for his honest appraisal werr defending carrager gor spitting at one of our own supporters last week.

For every ying there is a yang. Every story has at least 2 sides.

{Ed025's Note - very much so ken..

19 Mar 2018 22:30:15
Very unpleasant business with club doctor.

{Ed025's Note - i wish someone would bully me and give me a £1m pay off jred.. :)

19 Mar 2018 22:34:00
I wouldn't be going overboard jred. everyone has their faults.

I just read your posts and you go on about trusting Jose all the time and now you are slagging him a lot. just getting confused as to where you stand on the whole debacle. Just interested to know?

19 Mar 2018 22:34:25
Stevie if someone breaks into your house and you catch them and beat them to a pulp you could find yourself in prison. The law is an ass at times as you of all people should know. I know quite a few garda (the irish for police) and i'm sure its no different for you in the north or the police in the uk, the protocol and procedures you guys have to follow are unreal. One tiny insignificant error in paperwork or procedure can see drink drivers murderers rapists or even paedophiles walk free.
If someone pushes or abuses you in the street and you beat them up you could well find yourself on the wrong side of the law.
But jose broke no law. It may be construed as unethical but no employment law has been broken on the facts as i know them or the ones that are in the public domain.

Bullying is a bit of a buzz word people use a lot nowadays. But try and get a claim through the courts is difficult.
Im sure shaw was given instructions to follow in front of all if he didn't follow them to the letter then jose has no case to answer. The laws are their to protect both employees and employers. There is too many grey areas for a case to be upheld.

19 Mar 2018 22:35:44
Good post Ken. for all we know Jose has been in his ear since he arrived and might have had enough of it hence his more public criticism of him. I didn't see it as bullying. did Fergie ever publicly criticize players Ken?

19 Mar 2018 22:42:35
Aguero didn't break any law either. Didn't stop all the armchair lawyers coming on here straight away to give us their opinion.

19 Mar 2018 22:42:56
Ken - I wouldn't know or profess to know the legal implications of Jose's comments. I try and treat people the same way that I would like to be treated, I don't always succeed but I try my best.
I wonder how many people on here who support Jose's actions on Sat would find it acceptable if they were singled out and treated the same way by their boss at work.
Let's not forget that José has publicly criticised Shaw in the past with no apparent success.
For me it was completely unnecessary and just surrounds the club with more unwanted negative attention especially after the headlines we had just made with our European exit.

19 Mar 2018 22:47:26
Angle
The bloke can do no wrong 🤣🤣.

19 Mar 2018 22:55:45
To be honest, I've no idea about employee/ er law. I've never actually called it 'bullying' on here, with regard to the Shaw situation, but I assume most people believe it to be bullying in the old-fashioned sense ie. a more powerful person picking on someone in a less powerful position. I doubt very much if anyone truly believes that it's a case for an employee tribunal or José facing dismissal as a result.

{Ed0333's Note - Maybe it is bullying because when others play badly he never publicly calls them out. Shaw always seems to be the scapegoat.

19 Mar 2018 22:58:12
Yes he did angel. And the club owners klopp did it to sakho just people getting excited.
The club could have fired rooney keane and plenty of others for gross mis conduct.
If you don't like jose you can try and use it with a stick to beat him with. Same way as when i was sick of rooney he only had to turn up to annoy me. Its bias we all do it.
But what i find strange is the bloke who sits on a fence plays both sides of every debate never nails his colours to the mast and then claims he is always right. Bloody hilarious. Makes him look a right plonker and most can see right through it
😂😂😂
Ed025 i reckon if jose won the treble for everton you still wouldn't like him mate😂
People (well most people the fence sitters and 2 faced excluded ) make up their mind and won't change their opinions no matter what. that's why generations of families often support 1 political party and never change their vote.

Everybody knows jose is not perfect far from it. But i think he is the right man to sort out the playing personnel as it stands at the moment. Football is a game of moments. Just watch and wait if sanchez were to score in 5 or 6 games on the trot playing from the left those clamouring for martial will be hiding under a rock until he goes through a lean patch then they will be out waving their martial flag again.
Im living all the posts this week great craic 😂😂😂.

{Ed025's Note - i am opinionated ken and i make no apologies for that, i have never changed my opinion of the guy since his second spell at chelsea, when he first came to the EPL he was a breath of fresh air and witty to boot which endeared him to most fans, that persona has evaporated and all i see is this massive ego who thinks the world is against him and would not smile even if he saw a chair walk, if he won the treble for everton i might just change my mind mate.. :)

19 Mar 2018 23:07:19
You can sepp several colleges doing hr degrees mate.
Im studying human behaviour at the moment in dcu in a bid to try and get a degree in human profiling. Its tough as i travel a lot.
As part of the course we studied body language i'm sure noucamp has done some stuff on it for his job its facinating. My kids can't pull the wool over my eyes anymore😂😂. I hope to retire in 2 1/ 2 years time and put some of these learnings into a potential new career at the ripe old age of 50. i'm a serial entrepreneur 😂 Thankfully ill have no financial pressures so time to start enjoying the fruits of my last 3o years of hard work.

19 Mar 2018 23:13:32
So is that another 'not going to give my opinion jred post' 😂😂😂.

19 Mar 2018 23:21:14
Angle I've give it all week pal lens asked me the same question 4 times .

All ways back up my opinion pal I also take it as a compliment how much u and Ken care about it .

Ken
Great post again pal 😂😂😂.

19 Mar 2018 23:21:26
Ed033 again that's simply not true.
He has called pogba out on more than 1 occasion recently and martial and mata and matic while at chelsea. Many more examples i'm sure. But why let the truth get in the way of a good story mate. Lots of precedence i'm afraid ed033.

{Ed033's Note - ken, we have Ed033 (me) and there is Ed0333 (not me). Please take note.

19 Mar 2018 23:30:51
Me too ed025. Never afraid to defend them either😂 it comes from getting my own way a lot😂😂 lots of people dislike me but i can live with that. We are on this earth for a short time mate make the most of it, follow your dreams.

19 Mar 2018 23:47:49
Angel jred said he doesn't want jose sacked and that he is doing ok and doing nowt wrong. But then says jose bullied shaw only 2 of his signings have worked and he has thrown in tbe towel etc etc etc. But in the same breath supports him. One flew over the cukoos nest stuff that is. 😂😂.

19 Mar 2018 23:57:06
Apologies ed033. Sorry if you feel bullied 😂😂 my mistake. I of course meant ed0333. Silly noted.

{Ed033's Note - ken, change your username to Captain Needa:

20 Mar 2018 00:01:42
Ken
🤣🤣again that a lie . I never said Jose bullied Shaw. Just put up a comment from a well know news channel .
Let's stop pretending.

20 Mar 2018 07:10:13
Jred I think you're a good poster pal that's all. So I'm interested to know what you think. when commenting, much like other solid posters on here. I was just confused by your conflicting posts over the months re Jose.

I wouldn't flatter yourself thinking I care too much 😂😂.

20 Mar 2018 07:35:25
Angle
You have just spoiled it for me 😂

People get upset if you mention anything negative about Jose.
His comments of late imo have been a bit misplaced.

20 Mar 2018 08:43:20
Lol sorry jred 😂😂

I agree, and by the way Jose does a lot wrong Like many many other managers but I sense a lot of hyperbole. There's a lot of questioning everything he does with everyone, every decision he makes, every tactic he deploys. I feel there is too much negativity at the moment. I want to see us continue to progress, which I think we have been doing, and to just give him the control needed to do his job.

I'm sure it's going to be ugly for the next while but I think he will get it right.

20 Mar 2018 09:34:39
Angle
Comes with the job for Jose.
The manner of the defeat against Seville hasn't and shouldn't sit well with fans of a club like United.

There are positives from the season but a lot is starting to get overshadowed by the comments in the press . Which for me is a concern as we have seen this before with Jose and it normally doesn't end well.

Don't want to get into the rights or wrongs of it but I don't think Jose treatment of Shaw paints him in a good light .

19 Mar 2018 17:34:22
{Ed's Note - CheshireRed has posted a new article entitled, Jose Mourinho Needs More Time to get Manchester United Back to the Top

19 Mar 2018 18:18:23
Cheshire not sure if you have posted before or post regularly but i would recommend posting more often because that was a very good read. Well balanced and thought out and has brought a nice fresh perspective so fair play mate.

I am only 23 so all i have known is the Sir Alex glory days. I am part of generation that has only known success. I grew up watching some amazing teams and not having anything really to compare it too. Sure my old man and grandfather would tell me and show me clips of greats such as Best, Charlton, Robson. But i never lived through or got to experience the pre glory days. So I really appreciate listening to posts from those who have lived through the times where United where not the brand they are today.

I will be the first to admit at times I can be very reactionary and impatient as for me United have always won. Second place is unacceptable and so the last 5 years have been a really hard watch for me. My old man and grandad, although unhappy with the current predicament, are much more objective and patient with the current process. They've have seen the rebuilds and understand that it does not happen over night.

Whilst I agree that the debacle under moyes and LVG has set us back years, I do think Jose really should be doing better with the squad at his disposal. The defence is poor but the attack is full of talented players. In this case, he should be playing to our strengths and that is what i think is frustrating the fans on here. I am prepared to give jose another year to really challenge for the title. He needs to remove the lazy, weak minded and soft players who do not have what it takes to wear the united shirt. Sometimes tough love is the best form of medicine and players like shaw have had their chances. Very talented but the guy cannot even keep in shape. However, next year their is no excuses.

I think the manager after jose will really reap the rewards of this squad. A jardim, tuchel or poch would be a very shrewd and exciting appointment to kick off the next stage of this post Fergie era/ nightmare (however you want to describe it) . I think things are not as bad as they seem but jose needs to respect the values and traditions of this club. I am just not sure he has or does.

19 Mar 2018 18:42:01
Top class post cheshire red. I agree with all of that. The board need to remain strong and ignore the hyberbole nonsense emanating from tje press and the sheep who follow their sensationalism. Jose is marmite so will always have his detrators i was one when he managed chelsea. But he is our manager now and has full support. With him at tje helm just now the club could not be in better hands. He knows what he is doing imo.

19 Mar 2018 19:05:22
Good read that. Jose knows what is needed he will get it right. 😆😆.

19 Mar 2018 19:06:56
Agreed Cheshire he definitely needs time, as he doesn’t have inifinite resources at his disposal. I think if we look at Chelsea’s model of managerial employment we can see the lack of stability and that it only breeds short burst of success, whereas we desire a dynasty similar to that of SAF.

19 Mar 2018 19:17:55
That's a brilliant post CheshireRed.

We must learn the lessons of the past, shown patience and understanding and maybe more than anything place our trust and faith in a proven winner.

19 Mar 2018 19:22:50
People need to remember we are not going to get another fergy.

{Ed025's Note - no ones saying you are jred, but selling your soul to the devil is not a great idea either mate..

19 Mar 2018 19:29:42
Devil's advocate which other top teams would.

Would Madrid Barcelona Munich .
Munich get a lot of plaudits for being a well run club they sacked ancelotti less that 18 months into the job after they got beat by PSG in the group stages . He had would the league the previous season.

19 Mar 2018 19:33:42
Ed25
We are not going to get an other fergy or a manager that will build a fergy type dynasty like mentioned above .
I also think there is no comparison between the club fergy took over and the club Jose has .

{Ed025's Note - your right jred this is nothing like any side that SAF had anything to do with mate...unfortunately..

19 Mar 2018 20:27:47
Good post Cheshire but I have to take issue with “it took SAF 7 years”. History is often rewritten but as someone who was going to every game I’d like to revisit your recollection. SAF took over in ‘86 and hauled us out of trouble that year. He then finished runners up the year after but realised there was something rotten that needed to be adddressed. We then had 2 dire seasons with some dodgy signings and the humiliation at Maine Rd. 1990 was the turning point and we started improving with the FA Cup win albeit the football was still patchy. We then won the Cup Wnners Cup in ‘91, the League Cup in ‘92 as well as finishing runners up in the League before finally selling the deal in ‘93. We played to win, with Wallace, then Sharpe, then Kanchelskis, then Giggs. It may have taken until ‘93 to win the League but it was a great ride from 1990 onwards. As you say SAF was a proven winner but I would argue he was still at the start of his career back then. Let’s also remember that after winning nothing in ‘95 some fans wanted him sacked, this after having done the double in ‘94 so fans were as fickle back then as they are now.

And so to Jose. It seems there are issues to address within the club and he is clearly tough enough to do that but to compare now to 1986 doesn’t wash for me. We were the archetypal sleeping giant back then whereas we are now a top team even if we do need some rebuilding. The main difference for me is that SAF was all about the team, Jose is all about Jose.

It boils down to this. Do you believe Jose is still a top coach who can build a team to challenge, or do you think he has lost his way and is behaving erratically? Do you believe we should be seeing more from the players we have or that they are paying to their maximum ability. Do you believe the constant public humiliation of a young player is justified, or bullying?

You pays your money, you makes your choice.

{Ed025's Note - fine post that AJH mate..

19 Mar 2018 20:40:27
That’s a great post AJH. I think I have to side with the view that Jose is too erratic and has lost his way. Football has moved on and he doesn’t seem to understand or be willing to adapt and change with times. If that is the case then he might get another year but I don’t expect it to a joyous or successful one.

19 Mar 2018 21:46:26
Very nice post Cheshire red. really enjoyed that. A bit of perspective. Again i'd also like to point to andy mittens most recent article where he also brings a lot of perspective.

We have to give this time and let Jose see this through. I do feel we will get there but there will be many splits, fights, opinions along the way.

19 Mar 2018 21:59:14
Good post, Tony. Unfortunately José, with his unforgiveable press-conference, seems to have convinced some fans that we are indeed a small club who are lucky to have him, rather than the other way round.

20 Mar 2018 00:53:07
Angel I’m a massive fan of Andy mitten he is one of my favourite journalists. Always puts things into perspective when emotions get the better of me.

19 Mar 2018 14:19:34
{Ed's Note - Jwylde90 has posted a new article entitled, Does Buying World Class Players Actually Work for Manchester United?

19 Mar 2018 12:58:29
Is it still allowed to post something positive on this page without being shot down or will the "glass is half full" people be looked down upon as if we were West Brom fighting against relegation?

19 Mar 2018 13:42:03
You want to talk about how great Rashford is don’t you Shan?

19 Mar 2018 13:57:44
Absolutely, he is boy wonder, the next Maradona or Pele. I care about the club rather than individual players. But this page as of now is such a turn off. You only see hatred, negative comments. It seems like the posters here are the pundits on TV. I am sure Savage is on here, so is Souness and a few others. So much negativity about the club we all love.

No wonder Eds call us TOXICS. We are what is wrong with this world right now. Cringing, crying, spewing lava everywhere at the first possible chance.

19 Mar 2018 14:43:29
Good post shan.

19 Mar 2018 14:52:10
Hatred? Nothing like some hyperbole to try and back up a point.

19 Mar 2018 14:56:29
Shan so you are now moaning about someone else moaning. Atleast most people criticizing or as you put Cringing, crying, spewing lava everywhere at the first possible chance are doing while sharing their reasons for rather than throwing a tantrum like you are.

19 Mar 2018 15:32:44
What did i ask of you CSM, remember? Please don't bother. I prefer not to get in an argument with people like yourself who have made up their mind (that is if you have one) . Stevie mate, the page isn't a happy place anymore. I ain't making a point here. Its just what i see here week in week out. No wonder half the regulars are gone from here. People coming on this page to complain about Jose's cringe. Do they even look in the mirror. If he was cringing, what in heaven's name are you doing.

Football is just a game, its not a matter of life and death so stop making it into one. Our players are poor, our manager is absolute rubbish and the board is crap. I am guilty of downgrading people myself (Rashford) but i don't feel like just going on and on and on about it. I am sure once our current manager goes, the next one will face the same fate from this bunch. We are spoilt.

This place used to be fun which it isn't anymore.

19 Mar 2018 16:22:26
I completely agree there isn’t a lot of fun any more but surely we can debate and discuss without having to be yah boo, which there has been a lot of lately. People are passionate and emotions run high so I guess it isn’t surprising that extremes come to the fore.

I’m not sure how many people want him sacked, but there clearly a level of frustration with his approach and most recent press conferences. Some love him, some hate him, most are probably somewhere in between. Compared to the LVG tenure it’s an oasis of calm on here at the minute.

19 Mar 2018 17:12:14
I know what you are trying to say Shan but honestly I have found the site very interesting and the debates have been an eye opener. I think everybody on the site has presented their arguments in a respectable way, albeit some more emotional than others. Everyone has a different opinion and the site is a far better place when as many different people as possible voice their views as authentically as possible. Yes it has not all been positive but I think that reflects accurately the way this current united team are performing. I like your posts shan and it would be a shame for you not to post here as often. it has been a bit doom and gloom of late but I feel this is the sort of time when I learn and develop my own view on the current situation.

I find this site can be a mad house at times but it is very cathartic to voice my frustrations when we play badly. I fear I would go crazy without this site! So I wouldn't take it as fans being toxic but that they have an opinion and this platforms allows them to voice it however they please. I hope I have not come across as condescending as that is not my intention.

19 Mar 2018 20:16:27
Good post park.
I know what i want to happen in the summer. If it happens great if it doesn't ill be supporting the club anyhow.
Jose is in a great position imo he knows what he wants. The board have a choice back him or sack him. Lots of players with a year or 2 left on their contracts. If jose doesn't want them all he has to do is not play them very much then the board has a decision to make. No point giving players new contracts to sit in the stand. Fellaini blind darmian ibra carrick shaw herrera have hardly got out of single figures in league appearances this season so do they sign them all up on multi million pound contracts to sit in the stands not even the bench.
I think jose is playing it right.
Fellaini doesn't want to stay nor ibra carrick retiring i'm sure blind darmian and shaw would like a move rather than waste their time sitting in the stands.
There are others like mata martial and pogba that might look to engineer a move away if they are unhappy and can find a club to take them and pay what the club wants for them.
Lots to look forward to imo.
The first group of players mentioned above won't get into the team for a new manager either imo unless its blinds father or moyes comes back.
Looking forward to what is joyfully 10 more games tbis session and then looking forward to wjat should be a very interesting summer ahead.

19 Mar 2018 12:26:05
I don't understand the Martial hate. Has he really been poor this season?

In around half the number of minutes played he has more than twice the number of goals and assists that Sanchez has managed. He has done that playing on the wing, a position many don't believe to be his best.

Only Lukaku has scored more goals and he is tied with Pogba for assists. Two 90m players.

In what world has a young 22 year old who has scored 11 goals and created 10 assists across all competitions be considered to not be playing well?

The problem for Martial, along with all our offensive players is a lack of consistency, mostly created by playing every other game with the intention to NOT score. Or at least not to attack the opposition.

Yes he does lose the ball from time to time, and yes he does make the wrong decision at times as well. Yet his statistics show that he is one of our best creative outlets.

At 22 did Giggs or Ronaldo succeed every time they tried to take on the opposition full back?

At 22 did Giggs or Ronaldo score with every shot or find a team mate with every pass?

the answer to those questions is a resounding no, in fact, Ronaldo has never finished a game having scored from every shot, with 100% passing and dribbling success rate. This in in spite of him being arguably one of the best players of all time, and very much the finished article.

Martial is an offensive player, more of a striker/ inside forward than a winger or wide midfielder. And yet this young player, playing out of position being ask to play tactic's that don't work to his strengths has managed to be one of our best creative outlets so far this season with only limited playing time.

Anthony Martial has all the talent required to be a top top player, and despite what people believe he is actually working toward fulfilling that talent. To boot him out and replace him seems pointless and very short sighted. If he moves to Juventus then within 3 years he'll have Barcelona and Real Madrid battling it out for his signature.

19 Mar 2018 12:33:44
Couldn’t agree more Shappy. Selling martial will be a massive mistake and I think he was having a very good season until Sanchez came and he was shifted into the right hand side. We aren’t getting the best out of him or the rest of our attacking players for that matter. He will go elsewhere and tear it up and we will be sitting here thinking what if. It’s baffling if I’m honest. I understand Jose has certain requirements on what he expects from his players but it is very short termism to get rid of martial and replace him with Perisic who is 30 I believe. If he is looking at someone like dybala then I can understand. I hope he does not leave but I think there is a real chance it may happen.

19 Mar 2018 12:36:37
He doesn't smile enough. It's a no no for me.

19 Mar 2018 12:43:28
I think he is a great finisher but often a passenger in games. He has scored some great goals but too often he is anonymous. Now whether that’s down to him or Jose is another matter entirely 😳.

19 Mar 2018 12:45:02
Totally agree, he was beginning to be very consistent until Mourinho dropped him for Sanchez.

19 Mar 2018 12:53:42
Could be Jose next Kevin De buryne moment.

19 Mar 2018 13:03:34
The problem with him is it seems he's not giving 100%. He got his big money move and thought that he has achieved it all. He still has time but he has to show that he wants it badly. Look at Sane, Jesus or Asensio, players same age or maybe younger but they show their class. They might go through rough patch but whenever they get the chance they give it their all.
Martial has the attitude of a frustrated Sanchez just about to cry everytime they lose the ball. Why not go after the ball and show some determination. Ronaldo reached at that level because of his relentless work ethic. He decided he wants to become the best in the world and worked on it. Martial has been deployed on the wing for the past few seasons, so why not work on that. How long will we continue to think that his best position is striker. He can easily become the best but he just looks uninterested.
Maybe Martial and others aren't able to perform to their full capabilities because of the managers style and added pressure on them to get back to defend quickly. Maybe they are afraid to try something new as they are afraid that they might lose their place in the team if they do something wrong. But that's the point which separates the good ones from the ones that could never fulfill their potential. Maybe Martial needs a fresh start or maybe he can go on loan to some big team.

19 Mar 2018 13:10:02
Bang on Shappy.

19 Mar 2018 13:33:18
Sailor, how do you know he has a poor work ethic or feels like he's "made it"?

Because he doesn't smile much? or because he doesn't track back?

Did Ronaldo do either of those things when he was 22?

People often talk about how we had a team full of fighters and workaholic's under Sir Alex, so did Sir Alex only buy those types of players or did he inspire those kind of performances out of his players?

A lot of the criticisms Jose levels at players like Martial and Shaw he levelled at De Bruyne. Poor trainer, cannot follow instructions, inconsistent ect ect. Yet Pep seems to be getting a pretty good tune out of the lad. And Pep is known as a manager who is relentless in training and following his orders.

You say about the performances of other similar aged players, Asensio, Sane, Jesus. well only Sane has more goals/ assists. Sane has managed one goal more than Martial and 3 more assists in a record breaking team surrounded by better players and having played an additional 600 minutes of football or around 7 whole games more. How many goals/ assists would Martial have this season if he was first choice at City?

The kids a real talent, how many kids do you see signed with Balon d'or clauses in their contracts? Clearly United and Monaco saw something very special in him considering no one bar Ronaldo and Messi and won the Balon d'or in over 10 years.

Considering the chief gripe people seem to have with United under Mourinho is a lack of attacking intent it seems a little counterproductive to then blame and scapegoat our most productive attacking player.

19 Mar 2018 14:07:33
If Mourinho stays Martial wouldn't play in his best position. So it is no point the club keeping Martial for another 2 years and stop his development.

If he is going given game time in a position he wants then it is fair for him to stay but if Jose isn't going to give him. game time then i can see him leave.

He has a lot of talent but he has to kick on now .

19 Mar 2018 14:08:59
Shappy - The problem with Martial (if you can call it that) is he is still young and inconsistent. In my opinion there are also question marks about his movement, desire and work rate.

He's a very talented player but in today's climate of instant success rules there is no patience or understanding that he needs time to develop and learn.

We experienced similar results and abject performances in the couple of years prior to Rooney and Ronaldo maturing. If memory serves me correct I think we we're even eliminated in the group stages of the Champions League.

I can understand Jose's frustration because instant results are expected and he probably doesn't have the luxury of time which was afforded to Fergi. He needs quick fixes and instant hits and his frustration with the likes of Rashford, Martial and even Lingard is understandable.

Jose has sold some fantastic players because he doesn't have the patience or inclination to let them mature. He understands that football requires instant results otherwise a wave of criticism and unrest follows.

He's attempted every trick in the book to try and provoke a reaction from the players but ultimately what some of them really need is time and games.

The problem Jose has is he's reliant on theses players to deliver the goods now. History tells us he doesn't stay at Clubs for long so it's little wonder he's grows frustrated when performances are good one week but poor the next.

For those reasons I'm not convinced another manger could get much more out of this squad in terms of results yet I suppose an argument could made that the football might be better.

19 Mar 2018 14:14:07
Do people hate him shappy? i'm pretty sure nobody on here even knows him are you just using that word to exaggerate/ emphasise your point?
Im ambivalent as to whether he stays or goes.
I thought rash had 1 goal more this season.
Juve are in talks with united. But the clubs are poles apart on valuation. Nobody else has made an enquiry. So juve don't rate him enough to pay top dollar and nobody else has asked so obviously not everybody rates him as highly as you despite all their superior knowledge.
Are his representatives using juve to get a better deal from united? that's quite possible.
You seem to be getting your knickers in a twist over a player nobody has tried to sign.
If he stays he stays if not we will get someone else in and hopfully they will do better than he has.
He was the most expensive teenager in the world but so was shaw before him.
It could be worth keeping him another season but it depends on what the club want to do. Players come and go all the time.
If i was in charge he would be on my list of possible exists but not on my list of must go's

Jose rates him as people keep telling me jose rates fellaini (well enough to start him 5 times this season) he gets plenty of game time has a decent return but nothing special.
Im not bothered either way. I don't hate him certainly not enogh to vandalise his car or anything like that👍🏼.

19 Mar 2018 14:46:31
That's a good post Danny.

19 Mar 2018 15:26:31
Good thing your not in charge then ken. Maybe we have one of those people in charge with superior knowledge to you and me. But that is the same manager who has consistently booted out youngsters for them to go an and prove him wrong. Jose is a good manager, but he lacks patience and the ability to improve young players, it is a trend across his entire career and not just his time at our club.

Does anyone hate him? I don't know, I can't read minds. I can read though and judging by some of the comments on here and on the live chat it isn't a massive leap to say some people are really not fond of him.

Rashford has now scored 1 goal more than Martial after his brace against Liverpool last week. He is however, still three assists short of Martial's current total and has played nearly 200 minutes more football, or 2 whole games more. I think they have had similar seasons, however there is a feeling both could do more if given the proper platform. However, clearly Martial has the higher ceiling.

Juventus have made a serious enquiry, and as we know no one else has. What we can't do though is know why they haven't, that's just speculation. Maybe they don't think he's attainable, maybe he doesn't suit the style they are looking for, maybe they aren't in need of a player with Martial's skill set or maybe they don't rate him at the asking price. All speculation.

Btw are you on Ed001's team or Ed002's team for the charity match?

19 Mar 2018 18:23:38
001 looking forward to that.

19 Mar 2018 05:55:19
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 19th March 2018

19 Mar 2018 09:52:45
Interesting read on a few of the mentions but I won’t want to get into the details since there is so much opinions from the supporters 🤣🤣
Always a good read Ed 👍👍.

{Ed001's Note - cheers mate.}