Manchester United Banter Archive December 01 2011

01 Dec 2011 22:51:30
Evening mates!

Just want to say few things...
Youth system: Is really important give the young players opportunities to gain experience and football time on the pitch and most important don't expect too much that Pogba, Fryers, Amos, Morisson to be next Beckham, Giggs, Keane... They were extraordinary players and did good for us but doesn't mean that we'll always have players from academy to be a world class one. Pogba and Morisson, they both can be a very good players and maybe not. and the truth is, United can't wait until they get ready for more first team opportunities to think about QUALITY PLAYERS for the PRESENT.

I think that we've been thinking too much about the future than the present, everything is just about Pogba and Morisson like they would solve the problems now. Maybe is just an excuse to not invest in new players by saying that they could stop the youth development.

We are not having a good time, yes we don't, but... lets see...

Diouf,
Bebe,
Obertan,
and maybe others... These are the players that we were planning to give the UNITED future alongside other flops?

We have the likes of Chicha, Jones, Smalling, great players, they still young with very bright future. But when will we invest with world class players to guide these youths and help us in the Present?

Premier League is far more complicated right now, even if we perform well after Christmas it does not mean that the other teams won't win their games too.

Champions League is almost impossible for us(lets be realists).

We can end up with no silverware this season only because we are trusting too much on the 'amazing' squad.

Old Trafford used to be our fortress, right now everybody goes there draw or beat us and sometimes even if we win the game, the away team feels at home.

Really frustrated right now...

I believe...

HolyUnited

01 Dec 2011 22:00:16
''York City in 1995''
Pilkington, Parker, Irwin, McGibbon, Pallister, Sharpe, Beckham, Neville, McClair, Davies, Giggs.

''WBA in 2003''
Carroll, Bardsley, O'Shea, Tierney, Pugh, Fletcher, Kleberson, Butt, Richardson, Ronaldo, Bellion.

''Southend in 2006''
Kuszczak, O'Shea, Brown, Silvestre, Heinze, Ronaldo, David Jones, Fletcher, Richardson, Smith, Rooney.

''Coventry in 2007''
Kuszczak, Bardsley, Evans, Pique, Simpson, Nani, Martin, O'Shea, Eagles, Dong, Anderson.


''Red Man''
Can I ask if you believe we were in decline when we lost these fixtures in 1995, 2003, 2006 & 2007, were we in decline when we lost in the League cup to Ipswich? No we were not. We had a fringe team out with a few youth players and a couple of players coming back from injury. It is disappointing, but it is not unheard of at Manchester United."

Sydney

You a bit frustrated to write that?

I spoke of 2005 not the other years, 2005 when we showed similar signs of decline, the year when we won nothing, the start of a couple of difficult years. We finished third in 2005 and only the league cup in 2006. 2005 the year where SAF thought Kleberson, Djemba, Liam Miller and Bellion were united players.
Again you missed my point, SAF needed a nudge that those players were not good enough and things had to change. Will SAF take the hint after last night?
The difference in 05 was that the brilliance of Rooney and Ronaldo was coming through, Giggs, Rio, Gary Nev, Scholes were a lot younger.
I see Ravel and Pogba as having a chance but some way short of where Roon and Ron were in 05 plus six years on SAF still relies on ageing Rio and Giggs.

2005 was not a good year but 2011/12 has potential to be a point of change possibly of even greater significance

Red Man

01 Dec 2011 20:25:51
POP QUIZ!
1.Do you know who loves food, daytime soapies and travels under a fake brazilian passport and sumo wrestlers can only dream of a physique like his?

2. Do you know what player decided to marry ronaldo's maid so he can learn a few tricks and flicks, from ronaldo's maid! This player cant beat an egg, he dances around in front of the leftbacks like its prom night then decides to pass the ball backwards. Here is a clue, its not nani.

3. Finally, who is the genious that has been beating the drums day in day out since summer about the youngsters and how they wil conquer the world for the next 10 years and then when they have average performances and fans are disappointed has the nerve to slug everyone else off and say there expections were 'unrealistic'.

Who ever gets 3/3 gets a reward!
Millz

01 Dec 2011 19:34:23
Jatt YMCA.... Ive nothing to think through here, i used to be a regulas poster on your site but got p****d off reading you lot calling us lot s**m all the time, its not all of you but it happens far too often, your boys are the worse offenders for name calling.... HERBIE

01 Dec 2011 18:57:10
JRG.... You berate Sydney for calling you boys "thick as pig s**t" thats your prerogative but do you do the same when your boys refer to us lot as "s**m" on a regular basis? Pot, kettle, Black..... HERBIE

01 Dec 2011 17:39:51
LFC supporter here, and it a real shame about any player out for 6 months. If there is ONE united supporter who wouldnt have had Lucas in their team I would be amazed.....show some class and admit he is a world class player

tel 1949

01 Dec 2011 17:27:12
Well , not a new thing but i feel there is that "spark" missing on the field...a player who can give that one moment of magic + too many injuries to key players(which includes TC) might just be the reason we haven't been playing at our usual best
just saying
DJ

01 Dec 2011 17:15:04
There's obviously some really varied opinions about Valencia here.

Some of you are suggesting that he was a stand out last night, looking to go forward all the time and trying to create something.

Others are suggesting that he passed sideways and backwards to much, and is perhaps suffering from a confidence issue.

1. The suggestion that he didn't play well-
- He did run around a lot, but he didn't often beat Parr, and when he did he only put a couple of good crosses into the box.
-Although I rate Parr as a great LB, the Valencia we know arguably should've been beating him up that flank all night, and putting crosses into good areas like we have seen him do so many times before.
-Possibly has a confidence issue after his injury?


2.Suggestions that he did play well-
-He DID run about all night trying to make something happen.
-Parr is a great young left back, who is more defensively minded that Clyne on the other side.
-If you're playing next to Gibson who is constantly trying to get you to set him up for the 30 yard stunner, and playing without any other vision then what can you do.
-All players go through bad patches of form, and the result wasn't perhaps the best to see his improvement overall.
-As some have mentioned fairly on here also, his first few games back from injury he played well so it's difficult to suggest that it is a confidence issue months later.



Press AGREE if you think he performed well.

Press DISAGREE if you think he performed badly.

All comments welcome, I'm excited to hear what you think - oh and Liverpool fans, also want to hear what you think but please try to be fair - when you are you make good points.

Joe

01 Dec 2011 17:04:22
Liverpool to make a 27m bid for Gibson in January after Lucas has been ruled out for the rest of the season, LOL... mufc

01 Dec 2011 16:21:38
Evans to blame for another goal, no surprise there. Diouf im sure is a bad idea of a joke. Possibly the worst player I have ever seen in a UTD shirt. No creativity in c mid once again. Berba and work rate do not go together. This man is a disgrace. Morrison and Pogba Not ready but the experience will do them the world of good. Smalling real quality and Valencia great work rate.

01 Dec 2011 16:01:01
seriously now, after all your hype about Pogba and Morrison i got excited last night. WHY i ask myself?
you lot think we dot need to sign players as they might hamper there progress? MUGS.
they are awful utd atm AWFUL fergies choices AWFUL

money must be spent now.


the youth aint good enough lads face it.


SWM
---------------------------
So, this guy has never seen Pogba and Morrison play before and was one of those expecting overhead kicks and hat-tricks. SWM, go and support some other club please if this is your attitude towards the youth.

G.A.G.U.S

01 Dec 2011 15:12:41
Hopefully now people will stop putiing pressure on Pogba and Morrison after last nights performance, They are not ready 4 games against any premiership teams, They should be loaned out to a championship team for the rest of this season and next season, Also, there is no guarantee they will make it at united, i watch them every week on mutv and to be honest they just remind me of luke chadwick, chris eagles, ben thornton etc, i hope im proved wrong, i really do, but they need some experience in the championship, i think it would really help them because i cant see them getting many chances from now til the end of the season, fair enough, ill admit that they always shine every week on mutv against other reserve/youth players but the need proper experience...mufc

01 Dec 2011 14:36:56
pogba and morrison are 2 quality 18 year olds who are just starting out and people on this site are expecting far to much of them.
Both in the years to come will be top players but you cant expect them to be amazing right now its unfair on them.
at 18 rooney and owen were playing international football but scholes and beckham were no where near uniteds first team so players develop and different rates but still turn out to be top players.
I think the problem is expectation on this site was to high before they had even kicked a ball in anger.
SYDNEY you posted further bown the page "what did people expect overhead kicks etc..." well yer some people on this site must of , mainly because people like yourself have big them up so much and like i said thats a bit unfair on the kids.
a similar thing happened to j cole a few years back everyone was expecting the new pele at 16 and were then gutted when he wasn't but didnt realise he was still a very good 16 year old.
of the 2 of them i think morrison looks ready for a place on the bench i would like to see him link up with rooney etc im not so sure about pogba yet i think SHAPPY made a good point for young players breaking thro its normal about pace and tricks i think it might be a bit harder for pogba because of the position he plays.
the problem is if pogba really is going to leave for first team football fergy might have a problem cos im not sure his ready for uniteds first 11 yet
jred

01 Dec 2011 12:58:50
How can anybody not want the youth in the first team, they have more imagination, drive and lets face it skill than are first teamers. we lost that game due to the fact there is a large amount of deadwood in the squad that needs to be gone soon.
Gibson - do not understand how hes still there, what did the scouts see in him in the first place. I know he has just returned from injury but he was so lazy towards the back end of the game, now if i had the chance to play for man u i would play with one leg. shouldn't of even made the squad, if fergy keeps playing him, no-one will buy him.
Park - what the hell has gone wrong, he was never the most skillfuf footballer, but he had desire and stamina, last night espiecally when at right back it was like he couldn't be bothered, pub players put more effort in.
Berba - sorry lads, great talent, but he don't want to be there and if he doesn't want to fight for his place whats the point of paying his wage.
Valencia - was my favourite player before his injury a proper grafter and team player, now i don't think he will ever recover, which is sad.
macheda and diouf - when macheda made his debut he looked like he had been playing the game for ten years, now hes playing like he is a 17 year old, who thinks every fan has come to watch him play. Diouf is a good player, but will never get any game time with decent players to prove it, he would always be above macheda for me, but if hes not gonna break into the first team then theres no point keeping him.
Morrison, pogba and fryers - deserve there call up, just because they didn't win us the game doesn't mean there not ready. paticularly morrison needs to play next game, can you imagine chica or rooney running on to some of flicks he was providing or running into the space he provides, by dragging defenders out of position. we can only play one of fletcher or carrick as they offer no imaginination, they're grafters not the spark.
The twins - are a waste of two subs, we might as well just play one and bring the other on when the inevitable happens.

The one good thing to come out of this is smalling the only player that could slot into any team in europe. can you imagine him and pique side by side for barcelona, the class they would provide.
Fergy if we can see the useless, lucky players you have, surely you can. other managers wouldn't give these guys a look in, can you imagine mouriniho playing gibson or macheda, no matter what competition it was.

aaallj5

01 Dec 2011 12:20:58
Ok so I've now watched the game (I know, I know I was warned) and I'm astonished at people saying on that evidence Pogba and Morrison are not ready? They were our two best players by a mile and a half (alright, Smalling and Fryers were also good). Pogba looked quite composed and played some nice passes, and was also strong on the ball. But it was Morrison who really impressed me, he put himself about, demanded the ball, had good movement, and wasn't afraid to give some of the more experienced players an earful and have a shot or two himself. His link up play around the box offered something different that we had lacked for the entire first half and he had some nice little inter-changes. I mean seriously, because neither of them beat 6 players and smashed the ball in the top corner and won the game single handedly they get criticised? If Pogba's excellent volley had flown in the top corner everyone would have said GET HIM IN THE FIRST TEAM. It's just a little short-sighted in my opinion.

I think if anything this game proved that the youth ARE ready as I would much rather see a Premiere League match bench of Pogba, Morrison, Fryers, et al. than some of the dross that started the game last night.

APC

01 Dec 2011 11:54:05
''York City in 1995''
Pilkington, Parker, Irwin, McGibbon, Pallister, Sharpe, Beckham, Neville, McClair, Davies, Giggs.

''WBA in 2003''
Carroll, Bardsley, O'Shea, Tierney, Pugh, Fletcher, Kleberson, Butt, Richardson, Ronaldo, Bellion.

''Southend in 2006''
Kuszczak, O'Shea, Brown, Silvestre, Heinze, Ronaldo, David Jones, Fletcher, Richardson, Smith, Rooney.

''Coventry in 2007''
Kuszczak, Bardsley, Evans, Pique, Simpson, Nani, Martin, O'Shea, Eagles, Dong, Anderson.


''Red Man''
Can I ask if you believe we were in decline when we lost these fixtures in 1995, 2003, 2006 & 2007, were we in decline when we lost in the League cup to Ipswich? No we were not. We had a fringe team out with a few youth players and a couple of players coming back from injury. It is disappointing, but it is not unheard of at Manchester United.


''Criticism of the kids''
How people can criticise Pogba & Morrison for being involved with that team last night is beyond me, you could have put Essien in with Diouf, Gibson, Macheda etc instead of Pogba and it wouldn't have made a difference. I am not sure what people expect of Pogba so early in his career, he is an 18 year old kid and he is a holding midfielder, what do people expect from him? Overhead kicks? hat-tricks? He done what was asked of him. Morrison come on and had two decent shot and a couple flicks and back-heels. These lads are going to be something very special, just be patient and support them.


''Liverpool fans''
You do realise that this wasn't out first team, don't you? Only Smalling, Valencia & Rafael would be likely to feature at the weekend (On the bench) and Rafael & Smalling are coming back from injury. Of course you have the right to banter about this result and take the p1ss, but don't connect this to our first team, the team that is seven points and four places above you in the league.

Sydney!

01 Dec 2011 11:48:17
Before arriving at Old Trafford Crystal Palace had not scored for 485 minutes. Good job they had an easier game last night to end that poor record.

cozinoz

01 Dec 2011 11:20:25
Morning folks. You have to admit, the kids didn't do themselves justice last night in any way shape or form. It was just a poor performance all round.

At this very minute, Pogba and Morrison are not good enough to play Premier League football. They look a class above the rest in the Reserves but at least 18 months of first team football on loan to be even considered.

Look at Cleverley. Spent a lot of time on loan and has reaped the rewards of it but the most important thing was, he took his chance in the team with both hands. I know he's a few years older than the other two but they have shown more potential at their age.

Every game for United now is a must win. We can't slip up and let City get any more ground on us so our best team will play and can't be blooding in youngsters going into the business end of the season.

Morrison looks like he's curbed his off field antics so he could be trusted with a 6 month loan into the Championship. The main worrying thing though is Pogba. I don't think he'll get another first team game this season, so that leaves him with a year left on his contract(Is this correct?) at the end of the season. Anything can happen then, but heres hoping he signs a new deal and pushes on and takes his next chance.

It would have done them no harm being on the end of the hair dryer from Fergie.

Mumbles

01 Dec 2011 09:25:32
Seriously Diouf a prefessional footballer? I could play better football than him when I was 13. He can't even control a ball.

01 Dec 2011 09:12:52
05 Nov 2011 16:56:50
Oh dear

Sydney ;)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Remember this Syd, after the Liverpool v Swansea game ?
Well you can have it back mate. With bed blobs on !
Lol.
The Real KB

01 Dec 2011 08:33:56
After last nights display,fergie needs to get the cheque book out in january.He wants to develop the youth and bring them through,we are going to end up like LIVERPOOL,A BOG STANDARD AVERAGE TEAM.Come on fergie,sign sign sign.

01 Dec 2011 08:20:08
I just want to say how disappointed I am at the recent lack of activity from you guys on the Liverpool pages. In days gone by we would often entertain the likes of Sydney et al with banter. Often they would retort hilariously suggesting that Liverpool aren't even capable of beating a Championship club in the cup. For some reason these comments haven't been repeated recently. Can anyone suggest the reason why please?

cozinoz

01 Dec 2011 07:10:10
'THE TRUTH'?!
1. Amo is too small to cut it! The likes of stoke and bolton would have a field day.
2. Valencia proved AGAIN why he should be no more than a squad player.
3. Diouf, gibson and evans are reminders that sir alex is only human and makes mistakes too you know.
4. Park is past his sell by date.
5. Macheda is suffering from high self esteem- he thinks he better than he actually is.
6. Berba is class but once again seems uninterested, he needs to be released in summer.
7. Smalling looked fantastic even though just retaining from injury( wonder what valencia's excuse is)
8. The twins are more brittle than 2week old bread.
9. Fryers looked promising, all thanks to the fact that he has not been included on the 'over hyped brands(OHB)' list.
10. Finally, our 'OHB' paul and ravel, these kids are talked about like they wil overshadow messi in 2years time, but tbh, progba(no relation to drogba) needs to sign the contract and knuckle down hard at a championship side, same goes for morrison.
Thats all folks, just remember:
I Tell the truth so you dont have to!
Millz

01 Dec 2011 02:53:49
Guys what makes me sad is that we are never really linked with the top talent around anymore we have been left behind on wages and the big fees.I Know we all like to find the odd gem and smalling chico show it can be done but we need both we have to buy.

hamsik,cavani,alba,martinez,goetz.Mavillia,Sanchez to name but a few lots of very good players who would be mad not to want to play for us and the BOSS.

Spurs,Gunners,Man city,Chelsea all have better starting 11s then we have with what fergie has done since ronnie left its like streching an elastic band to the moon. But it will catch up with us if we dont bring in top talent in the summer i fear for this club of ours to be honest.

Please let me know your thoughts


Whos was the last quality player to come through the ranks?

Who was the last world class player we brought in?

Why are we playing 442 still? top teams dont use attacking full backs and wingers you dont need both in the modern game.

Y after 2 years in our treatment room is hargo back playing within months for city?


DG
jones pique vidic evra

Nani sneijder carick Young

Rooney TevezGuys this could easily be our team now but its not.


Fergies man managment of the berbs has been awful to

Divvy

01 Dec 2011 00:31:49
Hello.
I'm a Liverpool fan, and I'm here to say that untill recently i hated United even more than Chelsea and City merged into one team, but. I realised United just like Liverpool are real clubs. Chelsea and City are fake and how they have fans? I'll never know. Our clubs have history and class that can never be bought and I want us to get along more and fight with them instead. Unlucky tonight and I know you will be hoping Liverpool beat City. I know I'd want United to beat City if Liverpool were in Uniteds position.

Well... That's it, Bye for now.

Paul.