Manchester United Banter Archive June 01 2014

01 Jun 2014 22:50:30
Seeing as it's the off season, it's a great chance to talk about all things that aren't United, but perhaps in a different world they would have been.

One of the biggest debates in recent times has been about who is better, Cristiano Ronaldo, or Lionel Messi. We all have our choices and our reasons supporting them.

But, there will soon be 2 more players people will be arguing about. Neymar and Gareth Bale.

Which of the two is better?

For me, it is Neymar, Yes he has diving issues but if we're looking at pure talent then Neymar is a different class to Bale.

In my opinion, Neymar has all the ability to be as good as Ronaldinho and the hunger to surpass him. Which is an incredible achievement.

His Pace, First touch, technique, Skill, Flamboyancy, everything about him oozes superstar.

And while I think Bale is showing he is a terrific player and has, arguably been the bigger success (I disagree) he doesn't have the same star quality that Messi and Ronaldo does (whereas I believe Neymar does).

I think Bale will go down in a similar fashion to Beckham, Kaka, etc. some of the best players of this generation but not quite a Ronaldinho, Messi or Ronaldo.

So, who do you think is the best player currently and who do you think will be the best player in the future?

01 Jun 2014 23:38:11
Bale for me, he was dealt a duff card being welsh (in football terms!)

Currently Bale is miles ahead. And I mean miles.

Neymar is perhaps the most over rated player I have ever seen. Certainly talented, but goodness me not even close to the level of Bale right now. Who knows how far Neymar will go, but Bale has the physique and power to get even better.

Neymar is a twig and Barca have been ripped off.

Neymar is not built physically like Ronaldinho and will never command the respect from fellow professionals that Ronaldinho does.

Bale is a better all round player so he gets it for me.

Hope you don't mind me chipping in, but I think you have to look at the system in which they play as well. I also think Neymar has more pure/raw talent but Bale holds the physical edge and right now he's better than Neymar. Neymar will surpass him though IMHO.
Bale is just gold in Madrid's system. His physical traits are put to great use there. I think he'd be far less convincing were he to play in the system Barca employ.

Bale by a long way!

01 Jun 2014 12:56:37
Edd001, if you can comment mate.thanks
Sandro at spurs is a brilliant meidfielder, top drawer IMO.
United would have a great chance.of signing him though I suspect he has a few attitude problems but i'm sure lvg could straighten that out ;)

{Ed001's Note - as far as I am aware Sandro has no real issues, he was simply coming back from an injury lay off and not in full flow. Most managers would have supported a player in those instances, but Tim Sherwood thought it better to slag him off and drop him. I think he would be an excellent acquisition for United, if they chose to sign him. I personally really like him as a player and think he would provide something different to the current options. Maybe similar to how Moyes envisaged using Fellaini, but actually able to play that role and having power and pace.}

01 Jun 2014 19:39:27
Ed thanks for the insight there :)

Sandro has a knack for spectacular long rangers.

He's a good tackler and covers a lot of ground, if available for 10-15 million pounds I think he's worth a try.

01 Jun 2014 16:11:57
Benatia would be a class signing ed. I would choose him over any defender but I didn't think united we're interested at this point?

{Ed004's Note - I don't see him moving this summer and if he does Barcelona would be were I'd put my money}

01 Jun 2014 15:25:14
What are the chances of Di Maria leaving Madrid? If they are looking to raise money for Suarez then surely a £30 million move would be well worth it? Would love Di Maria and Sanchez either side of RVP but we could only get one. So which one would you get? Sanchez for me, more robust and better suited to the EPL.

{Ed004's Note - Sanchez for me but having both would easily leave us with the best front four in the league}

If we have this reported £200 million to spend is it that out of the question that we would buy Strootman, Fabregas, Sanchez, Di Maria, Shaw and Hummels all for around £30 million each? That is an outlay of around £180 million give or take. We wouldn't need much on top of that, maybe someone like Blind for around £10 million or Indi for £15 million. Shoot me down if I am wrong, but is that not within this alleged budget and is on paper, achievable?

No Fresh, you speculate too much lol. That is far too many star players into an already big squad, without any European competition next year we will struggle to keep players happy. Its already going to be difficult to fit Mata, RVP & Rooney in the same XI effectively. i'm not sure how easy it will be to cut down the squad size either, LvG has said he has told the club who can leave, and i'm sure there are a few he would want to work with before seeing if they adapt to his system.

Remember, its not as easy as putting a player on the market and they're as good as gone, clubs actually have to want the player, at a fairly reasonable price too. And some may have to take wage cuts to force a move. Do you really see united spending £200m this summer? And bringing in 6-7 players who could jump into our first team? I could see close to £150m being spent if there is one out and out marquee signing (£50m+), which will be tough to achieve due to lack of CL but fingers crossed.

I appreciate that's what this site is for and obviously value your view but sometimes you do tend to go a little OTT lol.

Oh, sorry I forgot to mention I too would take Sanchez over Di Maria.

Barcw have rejected 3 bids from man utd, liverpool and psg

Di Maria hands down. We could have a world class player with a good work ethic that can play in 3 different positions. He also has excellent crossing which is something we cannot say about any of our current squad.

Fresh the figure of £200,000,000 has come from the press, no one, other than a few people in the club, know how much the club have to spend.

I would take Di Maria as he can play either wing. In a perfect world we sell Young, Nani, Valencia and get both and promote Jesse lindgard. We also have Janusaj and Bambi and that is plenty for the wings.

Ay3. So you think £150 million with a £50 million player is realistic? I think that is more speculative and over expectant than what I am saying. The truth is that most of our signings will be around the £25 - £30 million mark and there will be signficant investment this summer. There could be as many as 10 go this window alone and there are big holes. LVG will want success as soon as possible so 5 or 6 top signings are by no means out of the question. I admit that two wingers may be a push though.

And carloto, yes I am well aware of that. Why not use it as a ball park figure.

No, I said 'I could see' it being close to £150m IF we made a marquee signing, but as I mentioned, that would be unlikely because we don't have CL football to offer.

You expecting £200m to be spent on 6-7 players is certainly having very very high hopes, and of course LvG will want instant success, who doesn't? That doesn't mean any player we cash out for will come, especially not every player the journos just link us to & you post. There will be other teams, who can offer CL football and are also big clubs. We could perhaps throw money at them but that doesn't always work. The players you've mentioned aren't short of interest, there are many clubs who would battle for their signature if they were available at the £25-30m price tag. (probably not Strootman)

I hope around 10 do, but its not as easy in practice, for reasons mentioned in my previous post. I could see perhaps 5 or so signings being made myself, and agree there will be significant changes but not of the calibre you're expecting, not £200m worth of 5-6 signings - although I would be happy with that! Optimism is good, but so is reality. We are Manchester United, but currently other teams can offer more, let's hope some players are willing to give up one season of CL to player for such a club!

The window hasn't opened and people are already worried. Anyway, I don't think all our problems will be fixed in one window, long term at least. I expect us to make a few good signings come summer, and then add on to them the following summer, when hopefully we have CL to offer.

Because Fresh what's the point of having a ball park figure when the real figure could be half or a quarter of your expected figure.

Why come on here at all then carloto if not to speculate and discuss things?

At most I imagine that we will be looking at 5/6 players coming in with at least 1 of those top top money £40/45m. I agree with Fresh that the rest will be £30m bracket so we are talking £190-200m.
Add that to the current squad of 25 and you are looking to make a cull of about 10/11 players to then make room for the 4/5 players that will be promoted from the juniors/loans.
Total squad will still be 25 but with youth to play the back up roll.
Of the 10/11 that leave I think there could be at least 1 surprise/big name that will generate some decent money and with Fellaini and Young generating some decent money as well it is possible that we may recoup anywhere from £40/50m plus. I imagine that the net spend will be in the £125/150 bracket which for the Glazers if they see good value and get back in the champions league will be money well spent

03 Jun 2014 13:22:24
Ed002 has said many many times that the rebuild will be carried out over 2/3 transfer windows. If we did have £200m to spend it's over three windows. I can already predict the fall out from 'fans' on here when united 'only' spend £50-£60 m this summer.

01 Jun 2014 14:09:38
Who thinks we will sign these big name players this season? I honestly think we will sign

Shaw
Martins Indi
Clasie
Depay/Konoplyanka

I really hope we sign Sanchez and Fabregas but I just can't see it, imagine a front 3 of Januzaj Rvp and Sanchez, with Fabregas, clasie and mata pulling the strings in midfield

By big names I meant the likes of hummels, schweinsteiger, kroos etc not the ones I listed

01 Jun 2014 13:11:44
Everywhere I see is unrealistic team formations. even we are going behind unrealistic targets. we have to remember we are not playing CL this year so many top players wnt come like it happened with liverpool for many seasons. so let's prepare a b list young potential players who'l carve under LVG. the di marias, sanchez wnt come. let's go for classie, indi, konoplayanka n amidst all this we should remember the biggest challenge is to strengthen our defence so a experience cb is wt we need.

01 Jun 2014 11:27:52
I think the developments around Fabregas are interesting. It is now clear that he will be leaving Barcelona and that the EPL is his destination, most media outlets, journalists, experts etc are very much in agreement on that. Liverpool and ourselves are the front runners with Arsenal not going for him as they see him as being too similar to Oezil. Add to that, Barcelona seemingly want Koke - Fabregas in and Koke out? Everything points to him leaving. He has had a good season, has EPL experience, gets a fair few assists and goals to his name and to me seems like a no brainer - especially for the £30 million figure that is being thrown around.

Also reports suggesting that the Shaw deal will be done with in a few days. Konoplyanka is a top target and for only £12 million and also a bid could be being readied for Di Maria. Would be happy with all of those.

{Ed004's Note - Still think we need to prioritise CB and another midfielder ahead of two wingers}

Barcelona want Ivan Rakitic according to his father, if qoutes are true, so maybe fabregas to city, Rakitic to Barca, Koke to us?

Yes we desperately need a centre back and two central midfielders. Strootman and Fabregas are my top two picks. But wouldn't be against Clasie, Carvalho or Schweinsteiger. I also think Blind would be a great utility option for us.

Liverpool won't go for Fabregas mate, it's all paper talk, Konoplyanka has also rejected United, saying he'd rather stay at Dnipro and player UCL football.

This is just a thought, but if we were to buy the likes of Cesc, Schweinsteiger etc who we are linked to. Where does Rooney fit in? I mean Mata could play as a winger, but if Rooney isn't in midfield, then where will he play? This is kind of why I think we will not bother with Cesc/Koke and we will play Rooney in midfield.

{Ed004's Note - Personally for the good of the team I would try to sell Rooney however I can't see were he could move to. We may end up with Rooney Central with Mata out right being given a free role like Robben has with Holland and a quick winger with pace being played for team balance}

Plymouth, that is no more than a rumour. There is no evidence YK ever said that. Just taking a journalist's word for it. But we do know he wants UCL football next season.

Syd, I think I would hope that we are in advanced talks for out targets. We probably won't hear much until after the WC finishes; but I am confident we will get the players' the manager wants.

The journalists' are probably as much in the dark as we are; thus they are making up stories and linking us with everyone out there, in the hope that they get one of them right.

My money would be on a couple of Dutch players', followed by some more established players'.

I personally don't think we will move for Fabregas.

Plymouth: That was a real big statement of intent your club has made. 4 Million for a 32 year old CF. Good piece of business.
He might even be Suarez's long term replacement.

Sydney, I think there are three options. My preferred option is that Rooney is the second choice striker - he would still get a lot of game time and usually one or the other are injured. The second option is we play a diamond variation of the 4-3-3, a little bit like LVG will play with Holland but not as a 5-3-2.

I think it would work in that van Persie and Sanchez up front, Mata behind and Rooney, Fabregas and Strootman in midfield. I love Mata but having Mata, Kagawa and Rooney all in the same squad causes such selection problems.

My personal preference would be to have Rooney as the second choice striker to rotate with van Persie who will miss his own fair share of games. Ideally we will get a midfield three of Cesc, Mata and Strootman and a front three of Sanchez, Januzaj and van Persie. Rooney, Kagawa, Welbeck etc on the bench.

Sam, it's called adding quality depth to the squad, Lambert has scored 29 goals and 17 assists n 75 PL apps, who would you rather have on your bench Lambert or Aspas? plus he's a life long red and will give his all for the club.

When Suarez goes we will be receiving a world record transfer fee, so I expect we'll buy a real replacement ;)

Plymouth, who could you realistically buy that would come anywhere close to replacing Suarez?

I fancy he is off this summer.

Top South American players' ultimately want to play in Spain for either Real Madrid or Barcelona.

01 Jun 2014 07:46:28
Watched the game yesterday, Martins Indi was average however Blind, Janmaat and De Vrij were good.


Blind could be a more talented version of O'Shea and if we are selling Buttner I think we should get Blind to cover CB, LB and Defensive CM. Shaw should be first choice and Blind would still get 20+ games next season and the season after that he would easily get 30+(assuming we qualify for CL)


I don't think we should buy De Vrij because I think we should go for a more experienced CB.
Garay has all but signed for Bayern.
Hummels without CL sounds improbable to me and he has no prior relation with LvG.
Benatia also looks unlikely.
If we are unable to get Hummels not sure who our other targets are.


Also I think Rafael needs competition to go to the next level. Janmaat is calm and composed and would be a bargain signing imo.


Best scenario for defense according to me would be:

Keep Buttner as LB backup and sign Shaw as starter
Sign Janmaat to challenge Rafael and also cover RB
Sign an experienced DB preferably Hummels


Jones and Smalling at RB are painful to watch and Janmaat is in his last year of contract so he will cost less than 7-8 million or even less.

01 Jun 2014 09:23:16
Van gaal at Bayern sold hummels to Dortmund and has admitted it was a mistake so there is a relationship.

I prefer Indi over de vrij who I think is talks with lazio anyway.

i agree Rafael needs competition but we have a few in the youth that need a chance.

Thanks MrE, didn't know LvG was the one who sold Hummels.

Also I had almost forgotten that we have Evra for another season, so we can afford to sell Buttner as well.

01 Jun 2014 10:03:15
Id try and throw buttner into the deal for any of the Dutch players we're linked with.

01 Jun 2014 10:37:09
I'd love Depay to be added to that list too he looks like Holland's most promising talent for me

Buttner is rubbish and been a complete waste of money and not god enough as a back up at United.

01 Jun 2014 11:33:42
Now on t stone I do agree with Shahram, although wasn't it Sydney that said Buttner would gradually replace Evra. Not like Sydney to be so wrong, apart form the Liverpool 25 points clanger of of purse (no offence mate)

01 Jun 2014 11:48:34
Blimey, today I clearly have fot fungers

With Evra staying and Shaw potentially coming in I think it's a no brainer to sell Buttner. He is one of those players who just aren't good enough to even be back up. If we used him in a deal for Depay that would make sense IMO provided they were interested in him. Depay also wouldn't be on much more wages than Buttner so it makes sense as long as we get Shaw.

AJH, obviously the plan was for Buttner to replace Evra. But never going to happen. Just not good enough.

RJ, possibly use Buttner as a makeweight for Depay or Martins-Indi?

If Feyenoord or PSV were interested it would allow us to almost cover the wages of Depay/Martins Indi while getting rid of a player we don't need while bringing in a new more talented one. It may keep the cost of the transfer down £4/5 million which could go towards someone else. Even though it's only £4/5 million we know how bad United are for not offering quite enough and when clubs ask for a bit more from us we tend to walk away from a player we need because we refuse to part with the cash whether that cash is on wages, transfer fees or agent fees.

RJ, problem is when MU sign players their wages increase significantly. So there's never a chance of them going back. Kagawa, Fellaini & Buttner would be great examples of this. Everton would have Fellaini back for £15m, but they wouldn't pay his salary. Dortmund would love Kagawa back, but Dortmund wouldn't pay his wages. I imagine a few Dutch clubs would have Buttner, but he maybe a little too expensive now wage wise.

That's true Syd however, we need to get rid of the deadwood whether they are part of incoming deals or just sales. Ideally there could be a couple who could be included in transfers even though player exchanges as part of transfers are rare nowadays.

01 Jun 2014 03:47:09
So apparently Fabregas is available but it is being reported that we "are not considering bidding for him at this time." Seems to me LVG does not fancy him?

REDFAITH

I think that would be a mistake as I believe Fabregas is a top player. He will strengthen whichever team he goes to. However we don't know what the plans are, we may have other ideas that would work well. I would be disappointed if the main answer was Strootman though.

01 Jun 2014 10:08:08
Actually I would agree with van gaal.

Red Man he isn't a top player, he's flopped at barca which is shocking really considering the players around him and the fact he came through la masia.

He looked good at arsenal but the team was built around him. he's average in the tackle, he's not the quickest, he's lazy, prefers to play as the most advanced mid and we already have several for that role. And I question his temperament and character.

For me its a massive no, he is not what we need, certainly not for the money involved.

He really has not flopped at Barcelona, his statistics are good but the fans have made him their scape goat. He is played up front or wide left most of the time which isn't his position and despite all of that, he still has 13 assists this season.

01 Jun 2014 11:42:22
And I still wouldn't touch him. He want arsenal but they don't need him so he will end up at city for the money. Honestly he is so over rated.

@Red Man

I agree Strootman is not the solution. Him and another quality midfielder would be good.

Fabregas to me is a good player. Although he does come in with some weaknesses. He has always flopped in big games, initially I assumed that it was a general Arsenal phenomenon but he has not done well in the big occasions at Barcelona. He also fades in the second half of the season.

I would still have him though, streets and miles ahead of any of our midfielders. A midfield 3 of him, Mata and Carrick/Carvalho/Strootman would work well imo.

REDFAITH

I have only seen Strootman once but it was startlingly obvious he wasn't just slow but was not blessed with any pace at all. I would be concerned for him in our league where there us a lot of pace and power plus the CL, when we get back, is all about quick play. For me Strootman us suited to the pace of Italian football and with his injury it doesn't help us in this important season.

I would absolutely have Fabregas, I think he has suffered at Barca because he hasn't been given his best position, one that utilised his strengths, he was put in the false 9 when Messi was out for example. I think him and a Schweinsteiger or Vidal axis would be interesting. Add a bit of pace and we would be in a far better place.

I disagree with MrE and don't see a lazy player but a very good one who can link defence and attack, who followed his dream to play for Barca and now that it has turned sour is a good option. He also has a nasty side, so he can add edge as well as finesse.

Red Man, Garcia at City is a great example. He was a very sought after player when playing for Benfica, but like Fellaini it looks like he's running in toffee in the EPL. Schweinsteiger and Cesc would do nicely for me.