Manchester United Banter Archive March 01 2018

01 Mar 2018 20:41:48
Anyone watching city? They are incredible. The way they move the ball, the speed of the movement and once touch is just phenomenal. They are LIGHT YEARS ahead of ourselves and the rest. You'd have to make them favourites for the champions league too. Who's better? Pep is the best coach about, shame we never got him.

01 Mar 2018 20:48:32
Yeah, a good game of football. Pep is lightyears ahead of Jose, but I don't like him. I suppose this is how rival fans felt about SAF. Maybe he would be more palatable if he was our manager.

Arsenal are not playing that badly, but City are cruising, they look like a team that trusts each other, understands where each man will be and work together - shows us up for being exactly the opposite on that front. We have the players to do what City are doing going forward, but it's like watching chalk and cheese!

This is probably why I am so frustrated about what is going on at our club.

01 Mar 2018 20:57:00
Regrettably, I agree Stand. I said that a few times and people thought I was being negative. The fact is, they have 3 midfielders on the pitch and two converted wingers who also pack the midfield. They work twice as hard as our lot. They have very few tall or big players in their side but instead, they have quick and technically gifted players.
I agree we're light years away and I also think we're not heading in the right direction. Our midfield is slow and ponderous and nothing has been done in 8 years to improve it.
I'm going to make a prediction that I hate, city will win the PL for the next three seasons. And we won't win it under mourinho.

01 Mar 2018 21:21:53
But they were beat by Wigan, lads.

01 Mar 2018 21:51:42
58,000 attendance, are they having a laugh.

01 Mar 2018 22:16:23
They include season tickets Leahy. Lol. There was about 20k I think.

01 Mar 2018 22:25:33
Oh I didn't know that stand, I thought they were hiding behind arsenal tv cameras.
They could put arsenal tv on pay per view now and would make plenty of money.

01 Mar 2018 23:01:19
The pea turns to miki.
Come join me at Arsenal you said.
Be grand you said. lol.

01 Mar 2018 23:31:51
Top manager pep with out a doubt .

01 Mar 2018 23:38:50
Or lucky jred. ££££££ plenty of money where he has managed
I'd like to see him take over a club that hasn't won anything for a while.
A mid table club, just to see what he could do.

01 Mar 2018 23:55:21
What Pep has done everywhere he manages is to introduce a clear system that he expects all players to follow. He tells them clear patterns of play and what positions to be in to receive the ball or pass it when attacking and how to regain possession as fast as poss when it had been lost. Barcelona Bayern and City all have the same shape under Pep. The players know their jobs and are bought for specific purposes. That's why he is successful. If other teams had that clarity of leadership and guidance he would find it a lot harder to win so much. The other thing is he does not tolerate players who are passengers in matches. If Jose copies Pep a bit more we might see a rapid improvement in Utd future.

02 Mar 2018 05:07:16
I think Mou like many managers introduces clear system also, but the difference is that Mou's system doesn't attract attention, not attractive and in most cases doesn't entertain.

Mou has his way of playing football which is against MU history according to many. He has been like this in most part of his career and people still think will change his tactics.

02 Mar 2018 06:48:51
City didn’t just arrive here, Pep didn’t come in to a disjointed club. City have been working towards this position for years, preparing for years to putting Pep in place, such as buying Aguero when SAF was saying no value. Pep was the cherry on top of the icing, the team was on a development plan with him in mind, then they gave him as much money as he wanted. Adulation of Pep is fine, I wanted him after lvg but don’t kid yourself he created this in 18 months, this is years in the planning and making by his old buddies from Barca, whilst we were looking for the latest super noodle partner.

02 Mar 2018 08:32:48
They have been developing Redman but pep went in there and bought 3 full backs and a fantastic gk. He brought in Silva and Sane. He has further strengthened with Laporte.
But before him, they were playing football like most teams. In just over a year, he's changed their system completely and are now looking head and shoulders above any team in PL and as good if not better than Barca.
Don't underestimate his influence. He's been very shrewd in his purchases and has improved the players already there beyond recognition.
In the meantime, we stumble from one overpriced player to another from Di Maria to pogba to lukaku. All good players but no system and still no midfield and no idea. It's brain against brawn and unfortunately brain wins Every time.

02 Mar 2018 10:10:46
City just like munich and barcelona under pep are a fantastic team .
It's no coincidence, we are seeing pep do what pep does .

Same goes for Jose our style of play is very Jose points total etc.

02 Mar 2018 10:39:56
Pep has a certain way of playing and he buys the correct players for that way of playing.
People can go on about how much pep has spent but every purchase has slotted in perfectly which you have to admire.
The only mistake he made was buying that clown of a goalkeeper but he's gone out and bought a world class keeper to replace him.
It's horrible to say but are so far ahead of everyone in the premiership its frightening. They will dominate for the next 2-3 years and it wouldn't surprise me if they won the Champions League this year as well.

02 Mar 2018 11:18:04
I find modern coaches a little stumped on how to combat peps teams . He spends a fortune but so do many teams . All teams will lose now and then and because so many teams mount a rearguard action against peps teams when it works people take too much notice and ignore the previous 20odd times it didn't . Would we dare play Silva and kdb in central midfield with one sitter behind, probs not and we would play one in a wider position for fear of being exposed defensively, yet this rarely seems to happen . Liverpool despite getting a walloping off city once this season appear to have found the closest thing to a game plan to cause city problems . I'm no coach but would be interested in others thoughts why peps teams are so dominant and ways to stop it .

02 Mar 2018 15:42:04
He takes his tactics from basketball and other non football sports after travelling to America. Surely the tactics for playing against city are in those other sports. Managers need to think out the box a little when playing them. For instance if you played 2 out and out wingers against them and left them up top the whole game then that would cause them serious defensive and counter attack issues.

02 Mar 2018 21:40:32
I'll be impressed if he leaves City in a good state. He's not left a club on good terms yet.

{Ed025's Note - pint of bitter for sepp..

02 Mar 2018 23:24:26
I'm into my sour beers these days Ed. Harder to find, but worth the extra effort.

{Ed025's Note - im sure they are sepp mate..

01 Mar 2018 13:53:41
What about Scholes? He was left out of the "all time best PL XI" by them pundits for Gerrard and Lampard. For me he is the best English CM to play in the PL just ahead of the two aforementioned guys. What is your opinion on him Ed1?
Just for fun what would everyone's 1,2 and 3 be from Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard?
For me it's:
1.Scholes
2.Lampard
3.Gerrard
But it's a tough call between Lampard and Gerrard and Gerrard's lack of title just edged it out.

{Ed001's Note - I think they are all very different players and it really depends on what you need for your team. Personally I find it comes down to who supports what team as to which of the 3 they think is best.}

01 Mar 2018 14:08:36
But Scholes is always made to be like the third best by the English media and I think it is more because of him not hugging the limelight while a player. Just my opinion but he was phenomenal.

01 Mar 2018 15:23:24
Gerrard is more in the mould of bryan robson.
Lampard was a fantastically consistent goalscorer from midfield he played with much more discipline than gerard.
Scholes was the best english player of his generation.
All great players for their clubs and all great players. Why they did not play together as a 3 more often is a surprise to me.

01 Mar 2018 16:03:19
Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard; in that order for me.

01 Mar 2018 16:06:52
Me too Ken. They should have been played as a three. Gives a lot more balance.

01 Mar 2018 16:09:01
Scholar
Gerrard
Lampard.

01 Mar 2018 16:16:44
Scholes for me, maybe biased but he was technically the best. Great range of passing.
Lampard second as he was an intelligent player who always seemed to pop up with a goal.
Gerrard distant third. To much Roy of the rovers. Shocking tactical awareness.

01 Mar 2018 17:35:20
The Liverpool game against Chelsea were they blew their chances of the title was why Gerrard was a distant third in that poll. It wasn't the "slip". Calling it a slip makes it sound unlucky. He miscontrolled the ball and gave it away, that's a mistake, it happens to every single footballer. That's not why. The second half is why.

Gerrard in the second half of that game was an utter disgrace. He took something like 15 shots from all different ranges trying to make up for his mistake. Consistently choosing the long odds of a 35 yarder going in instead of proping and trying to break Chelsea down.

I know boiling his fantastic career down to 45 minutes of football is quite ridiculous, but that summed him up. He wanted the headlines all for himself and cost his team a title. He was a MOTD player. Looked amazing in the highlights. Watch him for 90 minutes and he regularly went missing.

01 Mar 2018 18:21:06
Mumbles great post that. That is what spearates the best from the rest. Scholes without a doubt the best of all three.

The biggest difference between Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard was that Scholes couldve easily have played the way Gerrard or Lampard played where as Gerrard or Lampard couldn't play the way Scholes played.

01 Mar 2018 18:46:54
I’m not sure it’s that straight forward, each fan will favour their own player. Scholes is clearly a legend but look at Lampard’s goal scoring record, it is phenomenal for a midfielder. Having said that, I never bought into the Gerard hype, he’s a difficult bloke to like, thick as 2 short planks he would have been on the bins if he hadn’t been a footballer.

01 Mar 2018 19:02:16
Scholes Lampard, Gerrard distant third, not because of talent but because of impact.

For me in a team game its hard to judge a player by their achievements on the pitch as it is a team game which makes it hard to judge a player on what they "do" in a game. Would Lampard have scored as many goals for Chelsea had Drogba not been so good at holding up the ball? The tactics can be built around a key player to elevate their impact or for them to sacrifice their own "goals" for those of the team.

Scholes was all about the team game and played like it was more important that the team played well and won than if he did. Where as a certain scouse player was only happy if he was the best player in his team.

I think a better way to judge just how good and key they were as players is to see the impact they had on the team when they didn't play. At United we never looked like we had total control of a game unless Scholes was on the pitch, even though we had some great players on in his stead.

Where as bizarrely I thought Liverpool played better in the games Gerrard didn't play. That's not to say he wasn't a hugely talented player, just that Liverpool as a team played better when he wasn't overshadowing his team mates and trying to carry the club on his back. 11 men playing like a team just performed better than Steven Gerrard and 10 men trying to make him look good ever did.

Lampard's absence was felt by Chelsea, but he wasn't the heart beat like Scholes was so it was easier for Chelsea to adapt when he wasn't on the field.

01 Mar 2018 19:10:50
Scholes was the most underrated English player when he played,
The other 2 wouldn't lace his boots.
Didn't zidane, inesta all those big players rate amoung the best, the french italians spanish all wanted him and couldn't understand how engkand didn't build there team around him.
Scholes was a player.
I wouldn't have swaped him for no other midfielder in the world.

01 Mar 2018 21:13:55
All completely different but Scholes and Gerrard were miles ahead of lampard who worked incredibly hard to make up for his lack of overall talent.

Scholes, closely followed by Gerrard, then Lampard a good distance away.

02 Mar 2018 08:21:45
I think the biggest point was that both the Liverpool and Chelsea set up's were designed/ built around getting the best from Gerrard and Lampard. I think in Chelsea's case that was much to the detriment of Shevchenko, Torres and other strikers that weren't Drogba. Gerrard at Liverpool was in the main the reason the Xabi Alsonso was misused and never the player seen at Real and Bayern.

Scholes on the other hand dominated matches, had the ability and football brain to move positions on the pitch and adapt his game. All 3 were phenomenal players for their clubs, and each clubs fans would say their player was the best. Scholes for me was the best - again biased being a United fan. Scholes is appreciated more in Europe and by other world class midefielders.

{Ed001's Note - I think United fans need to remember, when they talk about Scholes being able to change positions making him better, that Gerrard was able to play far more roles than Scholes, so not sure how that applies. Scholes broke through as a forward, dropped back to attacking midfield and ended up a deep lying playmaker. Gerrard played as a centreback and right back initially, and did extremely well in the latter role as well. Then he moved to play right wing, with his best season, imo, coming on the right, before he moved inside to play off Torres. He also played as a central mid, deep lying playmaker and on the left (for England in particular) with varying degrees of success admittedly, but he played there. In fact the England staff used to move him wider because he was felt the best able of the 3 to adapt to different roles. So anyone suggesting Scholes ability to change positions makes him better should really think about it properly.}

01 Mar 2018 05:40:26
{Ed's Note - Tris Burke has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 1st March 2018

01 Mar 2018 07:43:05
Good read 👍.

01 Mar 2018 12:15:55
Nice one ed001. Nice landmark for RVP. Great striker at his best.

01 Mar 2018 03:07:31
I saw a video yesterday of Wright, Danny Murphy and Shearer discussing All time PL team and when talking about CBS they said Rio was better than Vidic or something along those lines, like Vidic looked good because of having Rio alongside him.
So what is everyone's take on this who do you think was better? I think they were one of the best pairings ever for us but I prefer Vidic over Rio if I have to take a pick. Vidic for me is the best defender I have seen play (.

{Ed0333's Note - wow deependra you must be no older than 14

01 Mar 2018 03:20:34
Pressed send before finishing.
Vidic is the best defender that has played for United since the turn of the century, and he was a leader as well and a strong character too. So who is your pick eds Rio or Vida.

P. s I am 21.

{Ed001's Note - Rio. Don't worry about ed0333, when people get as old as he is, they get cranky and like to blame everything on the 'yoof of today'.}

01 Mar 2018 03:31:46
Deep

Rio was a rolls Royce of a defender, regarded as the best in the world when we bought him. As a partnership with Vidic it worked really well but as a player Rio was well ahead. Technically excellent with pace, knew how to defend by staying on his feet and read the game extremely well, Rio was a great central defender when great is a too often used description, yet Rio deserved it. SAF built teams on strong central defensive partnerships and Rio/ Vidic was his best in my opinion although Pally and Bruce were very good. Rio by far the best and oh for him now.

01 Mar 2018 03:38:30
I should add that I go back to Bill Foulkes playing in CD and what a player he was. Jim Holton 6 foot 2 eyes of blue, Martin Buchan another. You will also have missed Jaap Stam another fantastic central defender, all of those every bit as good if not better than Vidic.

01 Mar 2018 05:13:21
No denying Rio's talents but he sometimes looked not much fussed because of his superiority and thus at times lacked concentration, grit and focus. Vidic though less talented gave every ounce of his on the field. That's just my opinion.
Rio could have been even better than he was he was just class above most of his generation.

What's your take on Rio and Vida ed1?

{Ed001's Note - Rio was a far better player, I would take Pallister over Vidic as well. Stam too. Vidic was ok, but he went to pieces at times, there were certain opponents that could destroy him and he would fold against them. Rio was the key to that defence, sometimes he did coast, but he was so good that it was too easy for him at times and that was the problem. However, when he was tested in a game, he would rise to the occasion most of the time, Vidic could get himself in a flap, as he often did against Liverpool when Torres was there. Rio Ferdinand was a class apart and the huge fee paid for him (at the time) was fully justified.}

01 Mar 2018 05:34:46
Stam from whatever little I have seen is like the cross between Rio and Vidic. Quick, Strong, Good on the ball, Good positioning and reading of the game. Vidic lacked pace and wasn't great on the ball.
But when you talk about these defenders from past you realize the lack of quality right now.

{Ed001's Note - defenders were much better in the past because they were taught to defend and read the game defensively. Nowadays they spend all their time learning flicks, tricks and how to pass the ball. There is a lack of balance in the game right now. Too much emphasis on attacking and not enough on the defending. Mind it will probably be the opposite way round in a few years, as it tends to over-adjust when it goes too far one way.}

01 Mar 2018 07:23:42
Guys yoyr clearly forgetting about Prunier! What a player!
Rio was awesome. A unit of a man that could outpace most strikers. His positioning wasnt great but his pace usually got him out of any trouble. He would have been captain for years if he never messed us around with contracts early on. Fergie wouldn't officially give it to him.
Vida wasnt technically great but had the heart of a lion and you knew he always gave 100%. Like Redman said Bruce and Pally (Daisy and Dolly! ) Were very similar. Bruce the no nonsense and Pally swept up with pace. Yip Jaap was a monster. Pace, power and won everything. Just couldn't keep his mouth shut! It was ok as we got Blanc on his zimmerframe.
Its weird though. I mean I've just turned 31 and was chatting to an 18 year old in the pub the other day. he's never really watched Cantona, Robson, Schmeical etc. couldn't get my head round it! I gave him some homework assignments from 1955 onwards. Learning the history of the club made me fall in love with it. But I suppose i'm one of the old boys now who harps on football was better back in my day! Turning into Redman! ha ha.

01 Mar 2018 08:26:50
Rio was far better than vidic and ed is right so was stam and pallister.
Back then defenders where allowed to defend tho.

01 Mar 2018 09:17:08
Paul mcgrath was better than them all but never proved it at united because he was an alcoholic. Stam then rio for me.

{Ed001's Note - McGrath! What a player he was despite having no knees!}

01 Mar 2018 10:22:39
Best I've ever seen ed001. Bryan robson said he was the best player he ever played with and the best player he ever played against.

{Ed001's Note - he was sensational.}

01 Mar 2018 10:33:53
Stam was an amazing defender and pips it over Vidic for me. Vidic was one of my favourite players but he did often struggle against strikers with serious pace such as Torres. But Rio is the best for me. So good on the ball as well as a proper defender. Would be worth £80-90m in today’s market. Would be the perfect defender for a pep system. We have in a way kind of replaced Vidic with bailly. But we have never replaced Rio. Perhaps Lindelof can with his ball playing abilities but he is streets behind Rio in his defensive capability at the moment. But I think he has the talent to be a very good player for us.

{Ed001's Note - 80-90? And the rest mate. He would be a 100m+ player I think.}

01 Mar 2018 11:04:53
Yeh your probably right ed!

{Ed001's Note - I always am ;-)

01 Mar 2018 11:48:47
Stam was an exceptional player for United, pure class. Pity he fell out with Fergie. Now I'm not saying he was the best or anything like but he often gets over looked but he was a brilliant defensive player for us: Ronny Johnson. Cool as a cucumber, tough and could play a bit as well. Very underated in my opinion.
Glad someone mentioned Mcgrath. Top player. One of the best readers of the game I can remember. I used to love watching him play. Hard as nails as well. A great player at United.

01 Mar 2018 12:06:37
Torres made mincemeat of Vidic. Ferdinand was better, Vidic was very good but appeared better than he was thanks to the players around him.

01 Mar 2018 13:31:09
Yellow,

We are all hard as nails when we have had a few drinks haha.

We have been lucky to have such great centre backs over the years, I do think Stam and Johnsen are underrated when people talk about our best defensive partnerships, perhaps because we had May and Berg as well stepping in, it seemed like Dolly and Daisy played every week back in the 90s. I know Pallister played every minute of every game in the 93/ 94 title win which wasn't repeated again for almost 20 years.

Rio absolutely amazing on his day, probably was the best of the lot, Vidic not far away and would probably be in the top 3 best ever at most clubs but we have had such great ones he probably doesn't make the top 5.