Manchester United Banter Archive October 01 2013

01 Oct 2013 21:35:50
For those wondering what it was like to watch in the 80's, well it was like this but with atmosphere.

Late 70's early 80's (especially under Sexton) were very poor to watch, with the highlights being United able to roll over Liverpool on numerous occasions. As MrE said the atmosphere was brilliant at home games and is rarely reached these days apart from a good number of away games which still seem to attract a rogue element to them, which, for us oldies, is fun to watch!

I remember all the kids in my school who supported london clubs or liverpool never missed a chance to left me know how sh. t we were :)

01 Oct 2013 20:37:43
Personally I agree with Brendan down the page I think selling that role on the right to rooney and give kagawa the opportunity to play where a lot of people think he is a world class operator and give Januzai a ten game run. I think the whole team could benefit,,
if Januzai needs more time I would also look at rvp coming from inverted left of 3 and chich up top. if kagawa is as good as some believe rooney and rvp coming in from wider could have goals a plenty.

Ok, no name tag which is odd. So. why move the most prolific striker of recent times to the left? Why move Rooney to the right when he now looks hungry and up for it? Just to accommodate Kagawa? Really?

I think start the game with Kagawa on the left, Rooney in the middle and Januzaj in his preferred position on the right. The three of them are good enough to play anywhere along that line which means they can change around constantly making it very hard to mark them. It annoys me we have either Januzaj or Kagawa on the pitch, I personally think they'd play really well together.

AJH
At last someone with a bit of common sense.
Yes let's move our best player (rooney) out of his favorite position to accommodate a player (kagawa)who is low on confidence and has openly admitted himself that he is not playing well and has to improve.
Praise the lord that mr no name isn't in charge tonight.

Simmo

Don't speak too soon, we've not seen what team we are fielding yet! Mum guessing Carrick and Fellaini in the middle, Rooney and RVP upfront, God knows who will be out wide. Hopefully, Rafael and Evra as full backs and Vidic and Evans/Jones at CB

AJH

If you read further up it's all Rooney's fault that players like Kagawa etc are performing badly now.
I can't believe some posts on here.
We are actually blaming Rooney for playing well.

Simmo

Some people just need something or the other to villify Rooney. There sure ain't a lot of fodder so far this season, so we see a different spin on it. E.g - "Players don't like him being the captain, Others underperform because of him, We are playing bad trying to accomodate him"

Well irony at full force, by some divine intervention he has been our best player this season, by a light year. I hope he is not "invisibily" pulling Kagawa's shorts impacting his performance. Imagine what people would have been saying if Kagawa or RVP would have had the kind of start that Wayne has had. Well worse, imagine Rooney playing like Kagawa has? They will rip him to shreds. This place smacks of double talk!

Deeps.

01 Oct 2013 20:16:56
I really enjoy the football of adnan januzaj. Its good to see united bring up prospect that shows potential

His goal against Bolton was an absolute beauty. Hope we see more and more of him in the first team.

01 Oct 2013 20:05:08
It really does look like a good job the powers that be at united decided that ozil wouldn't fit in or improve our starting 11 (sarcasm)

Watching the arsenal vs Napoli game at the moment and arsenal, and in particular ozil, look superb. Did we really turn down the chance to sign him?! Something seriously wrong somewhere if we chose fellaini over ozil. I wonder if that has something to do with the our players looking quite un-interested and de-motivated so far this season? I mean if you were RVP and saw united buying felliani when arsenal get ozil, wouldn't you be a bit cheesed off and wonder about the direction of the team?

Think it's more the fact of us keeping Rooney. But imagine a 3 of ozil-Rooney-kagawa behind van Persie. Ridiculous decision not to sign him if the chance to sign him was as high as we're told

01 Oct 2013 19:11:43
Reading the Kagawa thread further down and reflecting on Saturday's game. I really enjoyed the 1st half. Our defence looked a little shaky but there was some great movement and at half time I thought it was just a question of time before we scored. Nani looked better and I thought Kagawa had a good half and looked a threat (and that's from me who has not been that impressed with him yet). So I was a bit surprised when he was subbed at half time, it smacked of DM trying to force things when he should have just encouraged the team and told them to be patient. I assumed he had picked up a knock but apparently not. I really can't see why we took him off

AJH I agree.

Enough of this stuff now. Celtic game starting.Love watching celtic pre-game for some reason I enjoy it unlike the scourers :)

Pan scourers? :-)

01 Oct 2013 13:46:53
Saw a pic on twitter of Ashley young going on the plane for the champions league game. Very disheartening, thought Moyes would have dropped him again

The whole squad will always travel.

I agree, every time I see him in a united jersey I die a little inside.

It might be a very difficult game. Although they lost some players, I read today they have 4 new brazilians and an argentinian. The seem to be good at getting these guys cheap and then moving them on for big profit.

I don't know any of their new players.

Ferdy ando and Zaha missing

01 Oct 2013 11:12:41
Something I have been thinking about over the last couple of weeks is the size of the job that the manager has at our club.


Sir Alex was an exceptional manager and was able to keep many plates spinning at the same time. That was one of his main assests. How many managers can inspire and maintain a challenge on four fronts, control the scouting and recruitment at the club, take part in all the commercial aspects of the club while also keeping and eye on all the young players and taking an interest in all of the playing staffs social lives.

That is a lot to manage, Sir Alex in later years was known for taking abit of a back seat in some aspects while still keeping a close eye on things so as he could do everything that was required of him.

David Moyes is a very hands on manager and as such I think is spreading himself too thin, he didn't congratulate Lingard on his debut performance for Birmingham, his press conferences aren't as polished as Sir Alexs, this maybe down to not having enough time to prepare for them. And I think all the stuff he had to do on the pre season tour distracted him from spending enough time with his new players.

And if i'm honest I don't know if anyone else could have handled everything any better.

So what I think we need is to imbrace a new style of running a club as quite simply there isn't anyone else who can run the club in the manner in which Sir Alex ran it.

I think we need to restructure and have a director of football and possibly have a club ambassador.

That way all matter to do with player recruitment and planning pre season tours can be delt with by the director of football, he can have meetings with the manager and the chief scout and then work with them and the chief excutive to bring in the player the club wants.

The club ambassador can take over a lot of the public relations work and can go on to promote the club taking away that distraction from the manager.

That way the manager can concentrate more on managing the playing staff and preparing for games.

This way the manager will be less strained and able to focus more on getting the results the club needs.

As for who should fullfill the new roles, the club ambassador should be a club man, someone who has the club at heart and can do the club proud, personally i'd go for either Bryan Robson as he is a club man through and through and he has managerial experiance so he will know what he can and can't say to the press, or the other option would be David Beckham purely for his global appeal.

As for the director of football, well for that we would need someone who has very good connections within football so as he could use them for the clubs advantage. Maybe an ex manager but I think the best option could be a Jorge Mendes. I know what a lot of you might think but Chelsea employed Pini Z

01 Oct 2013 11:38:18
Obvioiusly I accidently sent this before I finished. Lol. So heres the rest.

Pini Zahavi, and that went really well and he helped them bring in some really top players.

I know people have a distrust of agents, and i'll be honest i'm not kean on them myself. But that is the way modern football is run, we are better off moving with the times than trying to fight it. And bringing soneone in like Mendes will give us the inside track on some of best players around, and his connections are second to none.

I appreciate if people would rather not have Mendes, but it remains that we probably need someone to fullfill this role.

All opinions are welcome.

{Ed002's Note - You have clearly misunderstood something Shappy. PZ was never Chelsea's "Director of Football" and never employed by Chelsea. Mendes cannot take any job at Manchester United as a working agent.}

Don't we have a club ambassador? Seriously that is a made up job if ever I heard of one
DoF christ we'd end up with joe kinnear or his ilk

01 Oct 2013 13:21:27
I thought PZ was a paid consultant by Chelsea, so not strictly an employee but working for the club to help conclude transfers. I did consider that having an agent would possibly be considered as a conflict of interest, but wasn't sure of the implactions of such an appointment.

Pardoe, we do have several ambassaors but imo they are under used with too much reliance on the manager to talk to the press. At Bayern they have several high up ex players working within the club and they frequently speak to the press rather than the manager. Obviously the manager has to do the contracted press conferences and such, but a lot of the other press arrangements are delt with by other people. I think this could help all future managers by taking some responsibility off their shoulders. {Ed002's Note - There are very strict rules governing the activities of registered agents. PZ has never been an employee of the club in the same way as JM will never be an employee of MU.}

01 Oct 2013 16:33:02
Ah right, thanks Ed02. I thought there might be something like that. I wonder if there could be some kind of loop hole if say an agent was to un registar themselves as an agent but remain as a director of their own agency. It would all be abit murky but could there be a way around the rules like that? Or are they sewn up air tight?

{Ed002's Note - There are rules, if they are abused they would without doubt lose whatever licence they have. You seem to be helplessly clutching at straws Shappy.}

01 Oct 2013 18:45:41
Thanks Ed02, I don't see anything like this happening. I was more interested in whether it could. Thanks again anyway, and glad to have you back on the site.

01 Oct 2013 09:01:59
You got to credit Kagawa for how he is acting. Just read that he stated that he has to continue to improve to get the trust of DM and to succeed at Manchester United. Very refreshing to see a player not sulk when things are not his way. I really hope DM looks at this and starts to put more faith in him cause he is an exceptional talent just waiting to dominate English football

The lad is class both on and off the field. I just hope we can get the best out of him. To lose a player of his ability when we are so obviously lacking in creativity would be a crying shame. I just hope he can find some form and show us what he is capable of.

The guy is a class act, he has all the ability in the world and many players would have been throwing their toys out of the pram, take note Mr Rooney.

In my eyes to get the best out of Kagawa and our attacking play, we need Kagawa in the number 10 role in a 4231 formation. Yes I know Rooney has been our best performer so far, out of a pretty bad bunch, but his first touch and short, sharp passing are nowhere near the quality of Kagawa. Personally i'd like a front four of Januzaj on the left, Kagawa in the middle and Rooney on the right of a front 3 behind RVP/Hernandez. I think with Fellaini sitting deep and Carrick linking with the front four we could have a lot of joy.

Now I said this a few times over the summer and got shot down as people wanted Kagawa on the left and Rooney in the middle but it doesn't get the best out of him or the attack. We have a less effective Kagawa on the left and a player in the 10 role who's game isn't suited to the role in my eyes. Rooney would be as effective on the right of tge 3 as in the middle.

I hope Moyes works out a formation that gets the best out of Kagawa as that would be hugely beneficial to us.

The problem with Kagawa is simply his position - he is a number 10 not a winger unfortunlately for him Rooney is on fire in that position with RVP up top.

Moyes has stated he has played left for Japan so its not foreign to him but he just not natural out wide - to be fair the couple of times he has played this season he has struggled physically which is frustrating.

I do hope that he gets a bit of form as he is a class act.

Brendan

Based on how they perform and their form, why should Kags, Wayne and Persie not rotate. What makes Van Persie undroppable? I would rather want to see Kagawa behind Rooney for a few games. Last season they were a treat to watch whenever they linked up. A lot of games, and I think all 3 of them will get enough game time. RVP can even cut in from the wings(he started of as one).

I agree Kagawa needs game time at No 10, but there is not a lot he has done to "deserve" the spot IMO. But yes he needs to play, that's for sure. And yes, Rooney is as good as Kags in terms of passing if not better. You need to look at his passing stats this season, phenomenal. I don't remember one brilliant pass played by Kagawa. Nothing against Kags, infact I feel he is being wasted here.

Deeps.

Goal threat is what makes RVP undroppable if you intend winning football matches.

Sadly DM will never rate him and he will leave and we will have lost a great talent that will come back to bite our arses

Get a life Brendan
Without Rooney this season we would be a laughing stock.
Are you no able to put the past behing you. obsessed isn't the word.

Pardo, not unless we get rid of Moyes first, bring someone who can play football and not keep telling us in press conferences that we will be getting more thrashings this year!

Deeps, Kagawa has never had a decent chance at number 10. It is a position where he will need a run of games to get the link between midfield and forward right. He is a perfect number 10 but he is being wasted and it's a great shame.

I agree IanO.

I hope you are wrong Pardoe, I really do.

Simmo it is nothing to do with 'obsession", it is about understanding football. Rooney isn't a great number 10, Kagawa is a much better option there in my eyes. To be a great number 10 you have to have great vision, composure, awareness, a range of passing from short/sharp to longer range and the best show great skill and flair. Look at some of the great number 10's, Maradonna, Zidane, Cruyff, Messi and compare their attributes to Rooney. His first touch is poor as is his short passing and he has no real skill or flair.

This season he has played 6 games, he has 5 goals (3 free kicks and 2 from open play against Leverkusen) and 2 assists (1 corner and one from open play against Leverkusen again). Could he not have scored the 3 free kicks and took his corner from a position slightly to the right of the number 10? In my eyes he HAS been our best player but we have been very poor. He has tried and given lots of effort and my view is not an attack on Rooney, it is just that he is taking a position that Kagawa is more naturally gifted in. Rooney would give just as much on the right of a 3 as he does now and we would also be getting so much more from Kagawa, it can only be a positive in my opinion.

Brendan
Yet fergy and now moyes have never really played him there even when Rooney was injured, why do you think that is

JRED, last season was his first in the PL and it was also greatly hampered by injury. This season is the first chance for us to really see what he is about. I don't think we will get the chance though. Watch him during his time at Dortmund and tell me Rooney is better suited to the number 10. I think with Januzaj and Rooney beside him behind RVP/Hernandez, we could be very good.

Brendan
I did watch him at Dortmund in the 2011/12 he done ok after Xmas before that he was poor. He didn't always play the number 10 role either.
By the way that same year Rooney scored 34
You don't pick players on what they did 2 years ago fir a different team in a different league.
Moyes sees him every day in training as did fergy and it would seem neither thought he deserved and run of games at number 10

Brendan

You are absolutely deluded if you think that Kagawa is a better than Rooney. I am in total shock with that statement.
Wayne Rooney has absolutely everything, a great footballing brain, superb passer of the ball, he can tackle, he guarantees you 20+ goals a season when played correctly and if he avoids injury.
He has all of those attributes that you mentioned in your rather silly post.
He is the complete package.
You are quite simply becoming obeseed with Kagawa.
If he was that good then he would be able to adapt to playing on and on the right or the left because have a guess what. Wayne Rooney can do that roll as well, he can also play central midfield when asked.
Sorry mate you have made yourself look very silly with that statement.
How can you say Rooney lacks vision, skill, awareness and flair.
Even in his worst season last year when he was injured and played out of position he still created more assists than any united player and finished second top goal scorer.
Im still trying to pick myself up off my chair after reading that.

Brendan
I would be quite happy if we used kags to get gundogan and then bought a top class left side player

From your post Simmo, it would appear Brendan isn't the only one with a player obsession.

Simmo what flair/skills does Rooney possess exactly? Can he beat a man? Rarely. Do any flicks etc come off? Rarely. His long passing is very good at times, his short quick passing and control are poor in comparison. A number 10 needs that rather than long range passing.
If you have a player who is good in a position why play them out of it? People have been whining about square pegs/round holes at United. Would you play any of the players I mentioned above out of their number 10 position? Of course not. Rooney does not possess what is needed for the number 10 role, SAF realised that which is why he has been played all over, and he is poor in CM so that was a pointless statement. Also I didn't say he didn't have vision/awareness, I said those are what you need. I do think he has those attributes but he lacks the control and short passing to use them properly in and around the 18 yard box.

We'll have to agree to disagree on it I guess, I'm certainly not Kagawa obsessed but I do want what is best for United and I feel him in the number 10 is that. Maybe it's that our forwards aren't able to play the right way for Kagawa to fulfil his potential with us. I think he needs a good opportunity though. Maybe having such poor wide players means Rooney has to play there to help cover when they lose the ball and Kagawa couldn't do that and it's not really a number 10's job anyway. That's why a front 4 of Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney with RVP/Hernandez up top would benefit everyone I think. Kagawa could play his best position with some very good players around him. We wouldn't have Young, Nani or Valencia losing the ball permanently. Rooney could concentrate on going forward and would still score 20 goals and assist plenty too. They could also interchange throughout the game at times to confuse the opposition.

I just think we will lose a very good player because we are sticking with very poor wide players and 442, meaning we can't use the formation that could make us successful this year, it's just frustrating.

Stevie K

Do you not agree with what I put about Rooney then?
I am only saying what probably 95% of man united fans would probably say.
How can you say he doesn't have any of them qualities?
I must of been watching a completely different player over the last 9 years.
Bendan, let's just say we are not reading off the same page.
Lets ask all the other United fans on here if Wayne Rooney has NO SKILL, NO FLAIR, NO AWARENESS, NO RANGE OF PASSING AND TO TOP IT OFF NO FIRST TOUCH.
If that's the case I wonder how he won all of the following awards by not posessing any of the above:-
PFA Players' Player of the Year (1): 2009–10
PFA Young Player of the Year (2): 2004–05, 2005–06
PFA Fans' Player of the Year (2): 2005–06, 2009–10
PFA Premier League Team of the Year (3): 2005–06, 2009–10, 2011–12
FWA Footballer of the Year (1): 2009–10
Goal of the Season (3): 2004–05, 2006–07, 2010–11
Goal of the Month (6): October 2003, January 2005, April 2005, January 2007, March 2007, February 2011
Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year (2): 2005–06, 2009–10
tv Young Sports Personality of the Year (1): 2002
Bravo Award (1): 2003
UEFA Euro 2004 Team of the Tournament
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (1): 2004–05
Premier League Player of the Month (5): February 2005, December 2005, March 2006, October 2007, January 2010
Barclays Player of the Year (1): 2009–10
Premier League 20 Seasons Awards (1992–93 to 2011–12): Best Goal (vs. Manchester City, 12 February 2011)

FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (1): 2008
England Player of the Year (2): 2008, 2009
Golden Boot Landmark Award 20 (1): 2009–10
FIFA/FIFPro World XI (1): 2011

It's just quite simply ridiculious this conversation. I shall say no more.

I agree with you brendan and convinced if the guy is given a run of 5 to 7 games, he is a better number 10.

There is no point arguing with Rooney club as it is sacrosanct to mention anything remotely different that would not suit Wayne.

I guess people forget what the number 10 is supposed to do and going back and picking up the ball from defenders is not their role. People confuse grind, hustle and work rate, which is what your midfielders do in balanced teams for a classic number 10 role who has to have great first touch and be able to make a telling pass. Wayne usually needs 2 or 3 touches and then decides what to do.

BTW I have no obsession with either but know DM current formation are not working and we are creating nothing. I think moyes spent most of his time this summer trying to retain rooney and now doing whatever makes Rooney happy.

It will interesting to see what happens when we win a penalty next and who takes it as SAF clearly took that way from him and RVP was given the task. That should tell you a lot about what is going on behind the scenes.

Simmo

Wow you are not obsessed with him all at are you :). His first touch and one touch passing is not great mate.

The problem is he hates playing the advanced striker role and playing on the shoulder of the CB and gets very frustrated. He tried that in the city game and got no change out of company and then we switched and had Welbeck playing as the advanced striker and he got no change out of company either :)

Sharham
Would anybody of got change out of company that day.
Rooney has said a few times he wants to play striker and plays there for England .
When rvp and Rooney have played there have been times when rvp has dropped in behind Rooney it really has been a front at times opposed to one playing of the other .
The question is why didn't moyes play kags of Rooney when rvp was injured or kags of rvp when Rooney was injured?

Simmo, Brendan never said he had no flair, skill etc. He just said he didn't possess these qualities to a level high enough, to be classed a top number 10.

Misquoting people is a sure sign you know his argument has merit.

Add that to the fact any meaningful personal award Rooney won was in 2010, but as u say u dnt pick players for wot they done 2 years ago, what a silly tit for tat this has become!

Jred

Not any of our strikers against Kompany as we don't have anyone in the mould of a Lukaku or Drogba.

I don't want to turn this into a Rooney debate and more about Kagawa as a number 10. Fergie did play him there in a few games mate.

My point is give the guy 5 games in that role and see what he does. Yanking him at halftime is not going to build confidence for any player especially when you play him out on the wing with a headless chicken like Buttner as his linkup partner. Moyes other statements are also not helping.

Rooney has had many howlers of games in the past and until last year Fergie would keep picking him and let him find some form. I feel sorry for Kagawa as it seems like if he does not have Blinder he is out. If Fergie had not retired I am pretty sure he Kagawa would be our no 10.

Maybe, I am not explaining it properly, Sometimes you look at a player and you know it's there and it is a matter of time before he delivers the goods, but you have to give him time and games and live with his so so performances in the process.

A good example is RVP, which by by all accounts is struggling(maybe niggling injuries, fitness not ideal, other issues) but you know it's there and rightfully you have to keep playing him and he will come good.

I do agree with your assessment that he is not DM type player and neither was Thiago. It seems like Moyes likes the hustle and tussle type players rather than what I call guys who were not born to be bruisers and do things based on their technical ability.

It is odd but kagawa is ideal for a Barca style type of team, highly technical payers who are effective not because of their physicality.

For what it's worth, klop who many rate as a top manager, moved Goetze out to left wing to keep kagawa playing the no 10 spot after Goetze came back from his injury.

The guy has bags of talent and a very different player to Rooney and gives you something very different but not sure we have the team or the players to appreciate what he can do, wrong time wrong place I guess as they say.

God created
Kags has played number 10 under fergy and he was poor to be fair he never managed to hold the place down
Honda is picked in that role for Japan .
I'm not doubting he's a good player but I don't think he is the right number 10 for United.
I'm not sure he is the right number 10 for moyes.
Ferguson could of gave kags a run of games last season due to Rooneys form and injuries but he choose not to.
Moyes could of played him 10 when rvp was injured.
We are struggling with our wingers form we are struggling in cm and the back 4 I also think the formation is an issue I don't playing kags 10 will change any of this .
He needs to earn a run of games I've yet to see him have 1 great game for United .
Now the lads a good player but some off the things moyes has said and taking him off after 45 minutes tells a story . I'm guessing but it seems moyes has little faith in him so he can hardly be lighting training up either.
With the players we have at the moment I don't think kags would do any better than Rooney in the 10 role I also think rvp Rooney is a better partnership especially in the EPL
One last thing the role he had in the European game the other week should of really suited him, he started out left but was obviously given licence to come inside and find space but he never had a great game. I think this particular role is well suited for him and should help him find space and get on the ball, I would play him here rather than 10 as I think in the EPL he will be marked out the game playing 10

Guys if SAF had stayed on I think we might have had a front four of Januzaj, Kagawa and Thiago behind RVP this year. Compare that to Moyes' choice so far of Young, Rooney, Valencia, RVP. Which would you guys be happier with? I know which i'd want.

Brendan
Thats a bit unfair on moyes, fergy bought and played Valencia and young plenty.
Also people on the site moaned year after year about fergy not playing the kids or playing giggs

Jred

That is not true as Kags was not available for selection as you make it out to be. He was injured last year and was struggling for fitness and had a stop start season.

This year he was knackered and pretty much played the entire summer between WC qualifiers and confederation cup.

Anyway, difference of an opinion mate.

God created.
Opinions make the site interesting.
I don't know if you are watching the arsenal match but ozel is playing from the right and drifting infield, this is the role I would give kags but from the left

Yep, what a goal. The difference is the supporting crew around Ozil. Arsenal look the real deal and can"t deny they play football like we used to many years ago. I think their midfield is class.

Keep switching and been watching the porto game.

We seem to have not mentioned fisher for a while, going to be some player and seems to have filled in and looks much bigger.

Watching the CL is like a kid being in a candy store. Draxler just a wonderful goal.

I'm completely against it but it's a good advertisement for a European league.

Draxler looks a fantastic player

Jred

Putting him on the left might work if he had a fullback that was any good.

I understand where you are going with this but when he drifts in, you need the number 10 to go out wide, which generally makes it difficult for the CB to decide as they don't know if they should pick up the no 10 or stay put. Arsenal do this very well.

With us what generally happens is they tend to get into each other way when Kagawa comes in and seen that a number of times. Rooney is a north south runner and not someone who makes a lot of diagonal runs and tries to get behind the defense. RVP is much better at those runs.

God created
That's a fair point but we need to improve as a team we need to be more fluid and quicker all other the park imo.
I don't think we will see the best of kags untill we do

Yes IanO, we never scored goals before we bought Van Persie did we? Its current form that should count!

Deeps.

Stevie K

Quote from Brendan
"His first touch is poor as is his short passing and he has no real skill or flair"
I rest my case!

Yeah Simmo, no real skill/flair, obviously he has more than the average player but not to an extent that he could be called a very skillful flair player or a great number 10.

Brendan

I understand your point of Kags not getting a proper shot at his favouite position. But there is hardly any doubt about the fact that Rooney is a much better player than Kagawa, present form or playing careers, whichever you look at it.

Kagawa plays on the left of the Japanese front 3. Honda plays the number 10. With proper personnel Kagawa should do well in that position. But presently won't make sense shifting Rooney from his favoured position. Considering he has started like a house on fire.

Deeps.

Deeps he has started well but he isn't really doing the job of a number 10. That is linking midfield with attacking, creating goals, getting in the box and scoring, short sharp interchanging play. He has 5 goals and 2 assists from 6 games. 3 of his goals were free kicks and one of his assists a corner. The only two open play goals and open play assist came in the same game against Leverkusen. For me that isn't good enough to guarantee him the number 10 role. I'm certain he could do just as much on the right of a 3 whilst getting more out of Kagawa at the same time, and getting Januzaj game time. For me it is win win win for all 3 players.

This hasn't been an attack on Rooney, just that I believe Kagawa is better suited to the number 10 role and Rooney would be just as effective just to the right of this and interchanging with Kagawa/Januzaj throughout the game at times anyway.

Exactly, how is it he can perform for Japan drifting in from the left but can't do it for us, he is obviously struggling with the whole process of the premiership and playing at United.
Im will put my house on it that Kagawa will be sold come the end of the season.

Brendan
Pele in his prime would struggle to link our midfield and wingers and score goals and create goals.
Kags has done nothing yet to show he has adapted to the EPL or United,
It's been said before but kags has played well out wide for both Japan and Dortmund so it's not the role
If you watch arsenal last night ozil played on the left and the right ans played very well I've watched kags do that for Dortmund a number of times

Brendan

I thought I would ignore it the first time you mentioned it, but just because you mentioned it, have to say this. Wayne has 4 assists. 2 from the Swansea game you forget. Specially one of them for Welbeck was a typical Number 10's pass. 3 assists from open play mate and one from corner.

It is a pity, but he is leading both the scoring and assists charts. 6 games - 5 goals, 4 assists! If we have to integrate Kagawa, I don't understand why do we need to do it at the expense of Rooney? When RVP was injured, Moyes still ignored Kagawa for the number 10 role.

It just doesen't make any sense to me as far as shifting our best player is concerned. That too for the sake of experimenting and trying things out. I would want Kagawa to do very well, but then he hasn't delievered yet. That remains a FACT.

Deeps.

Sorry Rafa, I mean Deeps my error. But remind me, was that the game where he failed to celebrate because he was sulking and still wanted a move away? Anyway, that's another story that the Rooney lovers choose to ignore.

Kagawa hasn't been given chance to show what he can do for us there. Last season was injury interrupted and this season he's only just getting back due to international commitments. As I said, I don't think Rooney has done enough as a number 10 to warrant the role when he could easily do what he has been doing just to the right. As I have said he has been the best of a bad bunch but that doesn't mean he is right for the 10 role does it as he isn't doing the number 10's job.

Lol Brendan, you talk like the Brendan from Merseyside ;) . So just because he did not celebrate the goals, we should chalk off his assists? that's more like "The best team lost - Jose or We had more possession - Brendan"

Deeps.

Brendan
Change the record you went on about rooney all last year and you ended up looking a bit daft.
Sharham made some good points about kags and might be right you just come over as "anything but rooney "
He played bad you wanted him dropped and kags to play 10
He played well you want him dropped and kags to play 10
We get it

01 Oct 2013 07:48:18
This is taking me back to the days when Sir Matt retired. We adopted the revolving door policy as no one could do what Sir Matt could do easily. McGuinness, O'Farrel, Sexton, The Doc, Atkinson. we then found the master, though he took a few years to show us. The difference between him and Moyes being that SAF HAD won things with another club, breaking the domination of Celtic and Rangers!
To be fair, I don't believe any of the rubbish that the Glazers gave him the money but he didn't spend it. Its hard to make someone believe you need to spend when you have just galloped to another Premiership. IMO the Glazers are NOT investing in the team, probably feeling there is no need. let's not forget, these are not football people.
We now have to see what the Glazers do next as much as what Moyes does next but after 3 years of not buying in the position we needed most, CMF, why should we expect any change? I expect nothing much to happen again in January, though if we re still midtable, the summer might be interesting.
Moyes has a 6 year contract, so I can't see anyone trying to get rid of him. The Glazers won't spend on players, so they won't be doing an 'Abromovich'. Moyes is here to stay so we had better get used to it.
Sorry David, but the alarm started sounding when you said that if no new players were signed, you'd be happy with the squad. Well 6 weeks later you need 5 or 6 world class players? No more excuses please David, results and flair are all that matters at Old Trafford.