Manchester United Banter Archive August 20 2014

 

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20 Aug 2014 23:00:24
Look guys I think the next few weeks will tell us if the owners care about being a force on the pitch again. It is clear to all we need at least two world class players before end of window and that's a di maria/vidal/benatia or at very least depay/carvalho/miranda. If top notch players are not brought in then I would expect the fans to really turn in the form of protests and what not.
It is all very well ed woodward going out and getting big commercial and sponsorship deals I appreciate that is important but on the field has to be as important. We lost big players and they needed to be replaced. Our chief executive also comes out with big statements about signing top players and spending big money but talk is cheap.
The problem I see is if the glazers and ed woodward do not produce what lvg wants and what was promised he may walk. Now obviously that is a scenario we do not want but lvg is not like moyes and will not just sit there and let his reputation be tarnished. For me we need a few players because at the minute we are behind teams like chelsea and ideally di maria vidal and a top quality centre back will be signed. Like the signing a rojo I think he will be a player that will give a 110 per cent.
I dismissed di maria simply due to the price but just watching when he came on last night he was very good and he has a major thing we lack which is pace. Whether it be him or a depay or cuadrado the answer is the same we need pace as we lack that and all good teams have this.
I believe we have some fantastic players like young adnan.rvp, rooney, mata, welbeck with wilson coming through. It is obvious we need players for midfield and to get rid of some like anderson and for me fellaini and clevs too. Bring in a vidal/carvalho/strootman and a di maria/depay/cuadrado. For defence we are not as bad as people think. I think rafael/valencia are both excellent for wingback. Luke shaw I believe is going to be terrific and rojo can play left cb and left wingback. Evans for me is fairly solid. Smalling a good squad man but has a lot to prove. I like jones and think being played at right back and centre midfield stopped his development but with a run am confident he can reach the heights expected. Young tyler has done well and can be a squad man.
One top drawer centre back is a must. Who I am not sure maybe ron vlaar could be a short term fix. Perhaps not top class in all areas but he is solid hence the nickname concrete ron. He is brave and good in the air he would head balls out of defence all day long. He is a leader and would be able to command the back four. Two other positives are lvg knows him and trusts him and he knows the system and how lvg wants to play.
As Fergie used to say its squeaky bum time now. Two to three more top players and I will be happy. Trust lvg guys he is a top coach and he knows what he is doing. Roll on sunday let's get back to business. GGMU.

Believable3 Unbelievable6

20 Aug 2014 22:41:52
Difficult to understand why Vidal hasn't arrived. Juve are willing to sell for about 45 million euros and the player was happy to join us although he didn't want to submit a formal transfer request. On the face of it Vidal offers the sort of dynamism in midfield we haven't had since Roy Keane. Is LVG really worried about Vidals medical condition or does he just not fancy him. All very strange, particularly if we are prepared to spend really big on Di Maria who is not, in my view, the same class as Vidal albeit in a different position.

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20 Aug 2014 23:42:17
I still think we will make a big offer for vidal in the next 10 days, whether that gets accepted is another matter. Vidal's silence says it all.

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Could we sign guarin instead. a lot more chance of getting him.

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Like most of us I would like to see Vidal at Utd but at €45M it is hard to see how you ever get value for money. That is most certainly the view that Ed Woodward and to be honest any member of the board are likely to take.
Why are Juve interested in selling such a great player? If they weren't then they would clearly state that publicly and reject all bids. They need to cash in in order to bring in a couple of players themselves and feel his stock is at its highest. Utd are playing a game and know that if they wait the chances are if Juve are desperate for the money they will compromise on the price. A deal that involved a player swap plus cash would be best for Utd we could get a player off the wage bill and keep our outlay down.
On another note I know he isn't Vidal but wouldn't Alex Song be a good player for Utd. Seems that Barca want to sell and be would give us the defensive CM player. He is quick, powerful, can put a tackle in and has an eye for a pass. He has linked up well with RVP in his Arsenal days. He has PL experience so he could probably adjust relatively quickly and at £15M would give good value on the basis of getting us competing at the top end of the table. He is likely to come to Utd despite no UCL as it is a better option than staying at Barca albeit that he might have other options. We need a squad good enough to get us into the top four and then we will be able to attract the better players more easily.

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I like to see Guarin and Vidal in with Carrick and Fellani out

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20 Aug 2014 22:32:39
Not certain if the recent disclosure about failed bids for both Reus and Muller feels like a bit of knife-twisting over our supposedly-tarnished allure or a reassuring sidebar that we have, at the very least, made the attempt to drastically improve the roster. Mostly the former, in my opinion, with the latter offering little comfort.

That being said, I think Rojo will be an excellent addition. Athletic, positionally flexible, and a bit of a mean streak. Just a shame that we have let it all come down to the wire again in terms of transfer dealings and, by extension, our prospective fortunes in a critical year for the club.

I really do believe that Woodward has demonstrated nothing short of utter ineptitude in every aspect of his job save for sponsorship deals. This is, and will remain,a sporting venture and it is about time he realizes that all the glad-handing and brown-nosing on earth isn't going to save us at the rate we are falling behind our rivals.

Believable4 Unbelievable0

20 Aug 2014 21:49:39
Eds with the barcelona an being upheld are you expecting Barcelona to now spend big again this window, thus starting the player merry go round.

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{Ed002's Note - Nothing has changed.}

20 Aug 2014 21:58:52
Really can't see another centre half coming in now after giving Rojo the number 5 shirt. Is this it for us? Really hope not

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I don't think squad numbers has too much to do with transfer targets. It would be like saying we have no number 9 so we will be bringing in a new first choice striker. Doesn't work like that.

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I see where Helmut is coming from, if we were to sign a big name defender it was likey they would take the 5 shirt as that is usually a CB's number, but then it could still happen.

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Just going tto put it out ther, but Medhi Benatia wears number 17 and Mats Hummels wears number 15.
Just because Rojo has been given the number 5 doesn't mean he's the last defender Man United will sign this window. It was the number he wore at Sporting Lisbon and it was free at Man United so he probably requested it.

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20 Aug 2014 21:06:50
Here is some food for thought, maybe signing top level internationally renowned players is not the way forward. Let's be honest before City signed kompany and zabaletta, very few of us rated them. Who had really heard of freddy ljunberg, viera, petit. Cristiano who? Henry? There are gems out there if you take the trouble to scout players properly. Hummels was cast aside by none other than van gaal at bayern.

Look at Dortmund, they basically almost went bust, so invested in scouting and youth and assembled a squad capable of winning the league and challenging in Europe.

Athletics madrid played good football, have won the Europa league and the league by assembling a balanced team. Don't forget that this is a team the consistently has lost their best players. To the top teams.

There are bigger issues at united and just buying £50m players in not necessarily going to fix them. Albeit getting rid of Woodward, Anderson, cleverly and young would be a good start.

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Right now, I would be very happy if we added, carvalho, clasie and depay to the 3 we already have.

no world class stars but potential wcs in the making. and would cover the areas we need too.

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Finally some sense. Good post

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We had been watching kompany for quite a while before city got him.

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21 Aug 2014 05:11:58
Pacho, I did not say we did not know about kompany, I said we as fans did not rate him. We also scouted henry when he was at juventus. The point is we did not sign them.

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20 Aug 2014 20:19:09
I have seen quite a lot of Rojo for obvious reasons recently. And can I just say how ecstatic he looks to be joining United. Now I know players are always going to do that but he does genuinely seem really happy that he is finally here.

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20 Aug 2014 20:40:33
Really interested in the 94v99 debate. I have to say from a personal viewpoint I think 99 were amazing, although there is little to choose between them. Now if ever there was proof that there are lies, damn lies and statistics it is that they each had around 21 full internationals in the squads, which is the roughly the same as the current squad.
Scary!

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'94 team couldn't play most of those internationals in Champions Leavue though because it was before rule changes for non homegrown players. Who remembers seeing all of those wonderful players in the stand against Barca?

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Add 08/09 into the bargain - Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, Scholes, Giggs, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic. I'd say that was the best.

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Just my opinion I think the 08 team was better than both. Ronaldo gave that team the edge for me, I have loved watching Keane and Cantona who were the stars of the others teams but Cristiano has been our single biggest match winner since Best. Plus rio n Vidic in their prime were our best combo in the Fergie era.

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Gotta agree with Fresh n Fess, 08 team was full of great players.

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To add my two pence 08 was the best team had no weak areas really maybe right back but noting else

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20 Aug 2014 19:56:22
With Shaw, Herrera & Rojo, that's 3 of our weak links filled. Add a CM and winger and this could be one of our best windows in a long time, wether we will sign two more players is another matter, the eds say it'll take 3 windows to rebuild the squad to where the club want it. Di Maria and Vidal would be the dream.

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Vidal & Di Maria would be a great window LA mate.

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As frustrating as it has been, it could end well. If you said to me would you be happy with Shaw, Rojo, Herrera and maybe Di Maria and Vidal I'd of bitten your hand off.

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We haven't signed a world class player. And without that world class signing it's an average window at best. We may have bought cover for our problem areas but without pace and penetration we will struggle against most sides. Di Maria or similar is absolutely vital!

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20 Aug 2014 19:52:03
Rojos got the number 5 shirt, does that mean no new cb?

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I'm not sure it really matters mate.

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No it's just a squad number.

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I suspect we will sign another new centre back and they will get number 15, which is obviously a huge number at United at the moment with Vidic having just left. Big boots for any defender.

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At this point I'd take Guarin and di Maria and call it a day. Then, if Roma can be persuaded, add Strootman in January. Then we could play 3-5-2 or 4-3-3, 3-4-1-2, or 5-4-1 or any other set of numbers that adds up to 10.

But will we be able to get rid of anyone? Unless Nani pulls his finger out we'll be stuck with his wages for the duration of his ridiculously extended contract. How many players in that situation can we support? There's no way Anderson will ever be fit to play again, he's too unhealthy to train. Fellaini, is he really injured? How? in training?

What's the reason that half the team are getting injured without ever playing in a real match? One wonders with Rojo the red will make it to Sunday. Maybe they should have waited until Friday to complete the transfer.

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Im sure it would if mattered if he hadnt been given the 5 shirt

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MU's two targets are Hummels and Benatia. Hummels is number 15. Benatia is number 17. It really doesn't matter.

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20 Aug 2014 19:28:27
Rojo confirmed on the official website with the statement:'Manchester United is delighted to announce the signing of defender Marcos Rojo from Sporting Lisbon for a fee of €20m, with Nani joining the Portuguese club on a season-long loan. Marcos joins on a five-year contract.' Great news and hopefully more to follow

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20 Aug 2014 16:15:51
Did any of you guys realize that we are the second highest NET spenders over the last 5 years? That just shows what cock ups have been made for us to end up in this position, out of Europe and having the top 4 as our aim.

Believable5 Unbelievable5

20 Aug 2014 16:40:10
1). I've seen that table and it says the last 5 windows, not 5 years.

2). We have made the sort of sales other teams have. Chelsea have recently sold David Luiz, Lukaku, Mata and De Bruyne meaning there NET spend looks 'better'. How often do we sell a player for big bucks? Our biggest sale since Ronaldo was Tosic for £7m

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Apologies, I heard it on the radio whilst driving so may have misheard slightly.

And yes, we really do sell players cheap. We are second to PSG though, look where they are and now look where we are. It's amazing.

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You need to look at the gross spend in this circumstance. It's about what each club have had available to them to spend. Net spends only matter from a business perspective.

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That's not necessarily true Syd, is it. Gross spend is not always a reflection on what funds a club has available to spend. United is a prime example. We have had a lot more money available than we have actually spent. We will not buy for buying sake. The money is there, but we have not been able to sign the players we want. If those players had been available, or has chosen (in some cases) to sign for us, we would have has a much bigger gross spend. The fact that we do not buy for buying sake should not be seen as a pointer to the fact that funds are not available.
Basically, gross spend only tells us what we have actually spent, nit what funds have been available.

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Exactly Betty - look at Arsenal fans, they have been banging the same drum for ages until recently, Wenger was the person they blamed though.

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Betty, yeah I worded that very wrong didn't I?

Basically, gross spend shows exactly what a manager has spent on the team he is trying to build :)

Jose (example) may have sold many players, but he has still had millions to spend to build the team he wants.

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Well Betty for once I have to take issue with you. It seems to me a) at least last year we were either panic buying or buying for buying's sake - did Mata or Fellaini meet any pressing need? and b) up until the refinancing of the PIK notes and the receipt of funds from the stock flotation our interest payments were consuming all our profits, lending credence to the sense that we really did not have any money to invest.

It is only now that the funds have become available and are being released and quite frankly it's only because the Glazers know that a sustained period outside the top 4 will seriously damage the value of their investment. It's certainly not on account of their love of the game.

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Pea, that is not really the point I was making, but I do take yours. Having said that, I don't agree with you about Fellaini. He was not a panic buy. He was a target from the moment Moyes was appointed. The issue is that we over paid because we tried to be clever and get him on the cheap. I also don't think Mata was a panic buy as such, but I think there is a strong argument that he was bought as a "statement" by the owners after such a disappointing summer window., so he could perhaps be classed as "buying for buying sake".

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20 Aug 2014 16:14:32
Listening to the radio and I must say, I can't disagree with a lot of what is being said. We have been turned down by a lot of top players over the last two years - there are certain players that we should of just gone and got as soon as LVG arrived / as soon as Hummels and Benatia have said no. Why have we not signed Blind earlier and bedded him in? Just what we need in terms of versatility and ability. Same with Vlaar - he'd slot into the center of the back three and LVG knows him well. Other targets like Cuadrado could of been signed. We seem to be hung up on one or two big names and gradually they have turned us down - but they have taken up far too much of our time.

Believable5 Unbelievable6

20 Aug 2014 16:40:32
Calm down Fresh. Vlaar? Really? That desperate?

'Other targets like Cuadrado could of been signed' - what do you think, United aren't trying?

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I think Vlaar could do a job for us this year, he will be cheap and could involve a player like Powell going the other way on loan.
He would jump at the chance to play for Van Gaal.
Yes it will not be the star player. but just maybe they don't all need to be that this year.just the right players

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Vlaar was one of the best defenders in the world cup even Rio and Alan Hansen said so. I think they know a thing or two about centre backs when they see them!

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I'm perfectly calm, just disappointing and when it is put into perspective it is even more disappointing. We could have realised Hummels was a no much sooner and moved to an alternative like Vlaar who is a total rock - we could have got him very easily.

What I'm saying is that we seem to fixate on targets too long when they won't happen and then we are short - look at last season, trying to do deals for Cesc, Ronaldo and Bale - all fell flat and we got Fellaini. You can't say i'm wrong.

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20 Aug 2014 17:14:43
Right, I wonder what Rio and Alan Hansen were saying about him before the world cup? I wonder if he ever crossed your mind, even for a brief moment - before the world cup. He's 29, he should be last resort if anything and if LvG wanted him then i'm sure we could swoop in for him (provided Villa will sell). I mean there aren't exactly a line of top clubs asking for his signature.

What you guys are doing is just panicking.

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Vlaar is far too slow. Desperation is proper kicking in now. It's different playing in a WC and treating each game like a cup final. In the EPL week to week he will be shown up like he gets shown up for Villa. Vlaar is no better than any of the CB's already at the club.

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Spurs are in for him, as part of a three he would be fine but not as a two.

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20 Aug 2014 18:13:06
Don't get me wrong Fresh, i'm not saying you're wrong or anything. I'm just saying that there are far better ways to go about doing things than resorting to the easiest option or buying for the sake of it. I agree Woodward hasn't been the most promising in terms of concluding a deal but surely he is trying, nobody expected Herrera and Rojo, we could have no idea who's next. Clubs will have primary and secondary targets they've considered. There could be a lot going on behind the scenes, especially in these final days. Maybe Rojo was secondary to Vermaelen? Who knows lol.

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Fresh

Your problem is you believe every piece of garbage that is printed. the reality is no company organisation hires/buys that way.

There are agents/players who have have a lot to gain by creating a buzz and whilst sometimes it is true the majority of the times it is unfounded bs.

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20 Aug 2014 16:13:36
Just watching United vs Wigan in 2008 and it's actually depressing the squad we had vs the one we have now, world class players and leaders all over the pitch, I personally think that's the best team we've ever had when the first XI was fully fit, tevez Rooney and ronaldo were scary, had Rooney not spat the dummy out and ronaldo and tevez stayed those 3 would be outside old Trafford in years to come. Not to mention vidic, rio and VDS in net, virtually unstoppable, we would have won the champions league 2-3 times with that team.

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That was my favourite team, Van der Sar, a younger Vidic and Ferdinand, Evra was the best left back, Nani was a reasonable player then, Giggs was still at his best as was Scholes and then Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney up top - amazing team.

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'94 was a better team for me.

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Son

I agree with you. Syd and I have disagreed about this in the past. The '94 team is the best we have produced although the '99 team would have run them close.

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Very close call between the 94 and 99 .
99 imo but a close call

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20 Aug 2014 20:08:54
Have to say 99 was the best because they won everything and never knew when they were beaten. Scored so many goals. On paper 94 team prob looks better though, both great teams.

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94 team we had pace and power and experience . For me it's the best team we had .smicheal was better than van de sar and that says something. kanchelskis Giggs, keane ince cm . Irwin for me was the best lb we had.
Like most said 99 was also a very very good team

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20 Aug 2014 15:56:33
Looking back at our last five seasons of players we brought in:

09/10 - Valencia, Owen, Obertan, Diouf, Vermijl, Smalling

10/11 - Hernandez, Bebe, Lindegaard, Jones, Young

11/12 - De Gea, Veseli, Powell

12/13 - Kagawa, Henriquez, Van Persie, Buttner, Zaha, Varela

13/14 - Fellaini, Mata

If we are fair and judge these players at the time they came in, even then it still not impressive.

In five seasons:
1. just two great players - De Gea and Van Persie.
2. only a few proven premiership players - Valencia, Young, Fellaini, Mata
3. Only a single proven European player - Kagawa
4. A few young English talents - Smalling and Jones
5. From the youth ranks - Welbeck, Januzaj, Evans .
6. not a single true center midfielder
7. Pogba

Overall, not good enough. Our dealings show a lack of a clear plan, glaring omissions, and redundant purchases.
At least this summer the signings so far make sense. Hopeful that there will be a few more, and in a few windows, that we can have a balanced and deep squad.

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Cant argue with that

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You Forget a lot of things

1. Mata, Kagawa (Admittedly he has not been utilized fully).

2. RVP, (Jones and Smalling both had prem experience) and Owen.

3. DDG played a Europa Final for athletico which they won, and RVP had plenty of Champions league exp with Arsenal.

4. Are Powell and Zaha not English talents?

5. Cleverly, yes not the best player but still came from the youth ranks. This point I think is irrelevant anyways, Yes all teams would like to produce from within but look at all the successful teams around Europe. They buy when they need to buy. No Team is at the top of the game and is entirely self sufficient when it comes to playing talent.

6. Several Central Midfielders have been produced but they have not been good enough, Simple and point

I agree with you that this is not good enough for a team of United's Caliber.

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RVP has contributed for basically 1 season out of 2. He was basically absent all last season and has started this one the same way. He is a proven talent but was he a good purchase when so many other areas needed addressing? We actually had 3 strikers at the time and buying him set back all 3. What we needed was replacements for Keane, Scholes and Giggs, particularly since we were clearly no longer in the market for players at the level of Ronaldo or Tevez.

There is something seriously amiss at United, and it predates the departure of SAF. The club has not adapted to changes in tactics nor the realities of the transfer market. We are owned by people who have no history in or passion for the sport and see United principally as a business vehicle.

I hope LVG can turn it around. If he does so then it will be despite the Glazers, who according to some reports today will not be relinquishing control for another 5 years. That would be a shame. Institutions mould themselves around their leaders, and in the Glazers and their sidekick, Woodward, it is plain to see that the core of the moulding is rotten. (And having worked in a foundry on Trafford Park Road for 7-8 years during the late 70s, I do know about mouldings and cores).

I do not think it a coincidence that Gill and Ferguson quit at the same time. They both knew they had milked everything they could out of what was available to them after the LBO, and they were not going to tarnish their reputations by sticking around as the club went into decline for lack of proper investment in players.

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I posted a year ago that our scouting and purchases have sucked for a long time and couple that with almost nothing decent coming out of the academy and this is what you get.

People like to blame woodward given the performance of the current squad but the reality is we have been poor for 4 seasons now and banked 2 pl trophies but our results in europe have been there for everyone to see and the PL has been poor in europe until last year but things have changes and you have now the toughest top 6 teams in any league in europe and even the elites of europe would find this league very difficult.

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JaMax, I meant things differently than how you interpreted them:

1. Mata and Kagawa cannot be called great for us YET, though they have the ability.

2. I was putting guys in one group each as I went along.

3. I meant players from foreign leagues.

4. Fine, though I was thinking of first team players.

5. I don't regret omitting Cleverley;

6/7. So the center mid problem STILL remains, 5 years later.

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Problem was only De Gea and Van Persie have been a success Mata is still settling in and Kagawa isn't used fully Herrera Shaw and Rojo have been a good window so far

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20 Aug 2014 15:51:15
Hi all, been on the site a while now quite enjoy everyone's insights and the likes

What is everyone's take on recent developments in regards to Astronomical bids for Muller and Rues?

It brings up the age old question of it's not all about the money, so what was it that these two players rejected us? Competivenes? History? Location?

Do you think they'd buy into the City and Chelsea "projects" if they bid or have we lost some appeal due to no UCL?

Secondly would the Muller comments have any benefit? Will the fact we have made huge bids attract quality to the club because we can compete in the market for top talent? Will this make players and clubs more aware?

Opinions welcome

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Muller not wanting to come I can understand a little easier. He is at Bayern after all. Probably more swayed by what he has and will have at Bayern than by something wrong with us.

Reus is harder to take. He knows he would be coming in as a winger where (1) we have the desperate need and (2) the classic history of great wingers.

But for both players, I would say our lack of CL and what they have at their clubs has kept them there.

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Zidaniel, why is it harder to take that Reus would choose Barcelona over us? He didn't turn us down to stay at BvB, he was expecting to join Barcelona.

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Reus turned us down because he had his heart on barca. I think that now barca don't appear to be as keen we might have a better chance I.M.O

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You're right Sydney, I forgot about Barcelona, and I should not have. I was only thinking of Reus fits us so well, and he surely knew it.

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Dan, there were rumours a month ago suggesting Reus was angry at Barca because he turned down a dream move to us in favour of them and they let him down. Not sure if it's true, but more than one source broke the story.

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20 Aug 2014 15:48:50
Does anyone know when Rojo will be unveiled, looks like a pretty good addition, the only thing that concerns me, if he is our only defensive signing, he has a couple of red cards in him
2 last season

Believable2 Unbelievable1

Was thinking the same thing. I thought he had his medical yesterday?

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20 Aug 2014 15:29:39
Alright mate, do you know if we're interested in Douglas Costa?

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20 Aug 2014 14:13:43
New deal for tom cleverly
And we are talking about going into positive direction. Lolssss

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20 Aug 2014 14:59:47
We resigned Nani last summer and moved him on this summer. Most likely Cleverly will be the same next summer.

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20 Aug 2014 16:12:47
Nobody wanted Nani because of his ridiculous contract. All we could manage to do was loan him out and I believe we are still paying a good portion of his wages.

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I honestly think Cleverley could be a good squad player and is worth keeping. His pass percentages are always very good and although he isn't as penetrative as others he can still do a job.

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20 Aug 2014 16:20:19
flint,

100% is quite a good portion, a very big portion really.

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Cleverly has a better future than Fellani he is mobile enough and Fellani is a big lump that can't even win a header

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Cleverley has good stats in passing pct because the vast majority go sideways, backwards, and no more than 10 yards.
But he does not score, create, or tackle at a high level. He needs to be sold.

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I hope not he is not worth a new deal as his wages would mean we will never be able to move him like everyone that is currently not wanted but no one is willing to consider because of their wages.

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20 Aug 2014 14:12:44
I would like to call for calm We have brought in Shaw Rojo and Herrera in our three worst areas like everbody I would like a new winger new centre mid and another centre back but that would be a big spend in one window it just won't happen the ed said three windows we might get out in two if deals go our way but big spending is only on fifa people and I know some people will say we have the money yes but spending all your money in the one shop leaves none for the rest and I am quite pleased the way this window has gone already

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The problem is that every transfer window that passes we seem to get further away from the elite teams

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Red 79, you just mean last summer right?

because before last summer I believe we signed the most prolific striker in Europe at the time? and bought the best attacking midfielder in Germany.

but whatever makes you feel better I guess.

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I know red79 Di Maria Vidal Reus Benatia would take us to a level we haven't been at since 2008

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Oh yes that's right we signed the best striker in the league and a top attacking midfielder from germany who at the time didn't fit into our formation and still can't get a game by the way and all the while we neglected to get anybody in place to take over from scholes and giggs and ronaldo and tevez and keane and I could go on our tranfer dealing over the last ten years have been woeful I am not just going on about fees spent but more who we have actually spent the money on

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Cleverley has a good pass rate as he never passes the ball forwards.

He always takes the safe option which slows us down and stunts our momentum.

For me he shouldn't be in the squad. Herrera, Carrick and Fletcher above him, ideally 2 signings but if not i'd rather see one of our U21's be the 5th Midfielder.

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20 Aug 2014 17:08:22
RVP has never been the most prolific striker in Europe, what are you talking about Jose?

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20 Aug 2014 13:24:15
Hi guys,
First time poster and long time admirer. With FIFA upholding Barcelona's transfer ban (which they are appealing in the court of arbitration) stating they will be banned for 2 transfer windows iv got a few questions on the situation.
1. Does the ban take intimidate effect or now that they are appealing will it be upheld until that decision is made?
2. Will it make the transfer targets both MUFC and FCB are interested in (Hummels, Cuadrado) more or less likely to sign for MUFC?
3. Will Barcelona worm there way out of it the same way Chelsea did?

Appreciate the feedback.

Thanks.

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{Ed002's Note - 1. It starts after this window closes. 2. It will make no difference - it is nothing to do with Manchester united. 3. I have no idea what you think Chelsea has done wrong, but the ban was always going to be upheld.}

20 Aug 2014 11:33:31
Hi Eds!

Heard Utd are about to bid £32m for Juan Cuadrado and hope to have the deal done by Friday lunchtime so he can play on the weekend. any truth to this?

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{Ed002's Note - I cannot answer questions about timing and really have no interest in discussing money.}

You didn't 'hear' about this by reading the Metro did you?

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Fresh you can hardly talk, you quote every newspaper as if it's gospel.

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Nothing wrong with that mr fresh the twitter man!

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Can you confirm if United have vid for Cuadrado or not ed?

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{Ed002's Note - No they haven't.}

20 Aug 2014 13:38:10
Banter please, eds. Thought this might be good for discussion today:

We are one of the great historic clubs of Europe. We have struggled of late, not just last year, but the last three years in the Champions League after losing to Barcelona in the 2011 final.

At the moment, I think Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, and Barcelona are a step above the others in recent years and in their drawing power for players. A few years ago, most would mention Manchester United along with those three as the strongest four clubs in Europe.

Then you have the nouveau riche clubs, Chelsea, City, and PSG (I don't know what to make of Monaco). They have not reached the level of the top three, but they can legitimately aspire to it now. Their spending power alone has enabled them to build some deep and talented rosters.

Other great clubs have fallen in their status in Europe. All of the Italian giants - Juventus, AC Milan, and Inter Milan - have fallen off due to financial problems in Italy. Another example would be Ajax, great history but they simply cannot compete financially for some time now.

Liverpool and Arsenal deserve to be in the discussion. Both clubs are admired across Europe and have had some good runs in the Champions League.

The troubling thought is that only only clubs like Chelsea, City, or PSG will be able to join Bayern, Real, or Barcelona in the last four each year. It would be sad to see only the richest clubs compete for the highest honors. That is why the recent success stories of Borussia Dortmund and Athletico Madrid are so encouraging and so good for the game. ( On a side note there, it is sad to see Dortmund's best players go to Bayern two years running, that is bad for the Bundesliga.)

So as we suffer through a year being out of Europe, where do you see Manchester United in all of this? I hope that we can have both the willingness to spend and passion on the pitch. And I hope Louis Van Gaal and his men can restore some of that pride to Manchester United.

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You speak of that across Europe, but on a smaller scale it has been the same in the English league for years. Very few have spent as much as MUFC before the Chelsea and City money arrived. The gulf between the rich and the poor is growing in the domestic game, and that's now spreading throughout Europe, due to the amount of Private owners of the clubs with untold wealth. The biggest issue we have is, if you offered a player a contract and Monaco also offered the same where would you go? South of France, Tax haven, huge money! Or cold dark Manchester. Players that currently reside in England, RVP, Mata, Rooney, Rio etc. are attracted to the club. But players form further afield are not so easily convinced. So I think we are in between the good clubs (Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool, Ajax, Inter) and the elite clubs (Real, Barca, PSG) at the moment. Bear in mind I am merely talking footballing status not commercial appeal

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We are in the Arsenal Liverpool bracket not top class but nearly always in the quarter finals

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Good post.
I don't think the problem is spending it's more attracting the players to Manchester United.
I think that we have tried to buy just about everyone in the past 12 months but with no end product.
Ronaldo, Bale etc.
The latest one beiong Marco Reus who apparantly declined the offer from us.

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20 Aug 2014 12:48:08
I was thinking if Napoli get knocked out of the champions league we should have a bid for Higuain and offer them Hernandez

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20 Aug 2014 13:28:18
How would that benefit us?

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20 Aug 2014 13:29:58
Where are we going to play him if we do?

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If we didn't need Cavani, we wouldn't need Higuain.

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20 Aug 2014 15:02:35
Because at the weekend I watched a Man united team that lacked a serious cutting edge in front of goal. Hernandez is poor and Rooney has serious problem staying in position and RVP doesn't have the most reliable injury record.

Sorry did I not stay in line with the rules ok here goes we need to sign Vidal he is the be all and end all and without him United are doomed forever.

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I actually agree with you in regards to both Hernandez and Rooney. Hernandez cannot score unless it's a tap-in. Rooney although one of our best players against Swansea kept going deep when he is meant to stay upfront. This is the reason SAF played him deeper and bought Van Persie in the first place. Rooney has problems staying in position. This is why we were crying out for Van Persie on Saturday. I think if we had a striker in mind then it would be Cavani. Cavani and Van Persie, with Rooney just behind for me. Rooney is not even close to being a world-class out and out striker IMO, when you do not have the build like Van Persie (for example) you need to rely on pace, well Rooney no longer has the pace either so that is why he will never reach the heights of 2009/10. He isn't a world-class out and out striker IMO, BUT he is a world-class second striker for me. That is why I have always wanted Rooney to play behind the main striker and think it's his best position, I think he plays that role better than most. Or even play RvP upfront alone with Rooney and Mata behind him.

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I actually agree too. Rvp always injured. Welbeck does not score enough. Hernandez will do well in another system. Rooney likes to come deep.
I have hope for James Wilson.
But I think we can get rid of Hernandez and pick up a striker like falcao then it will be beneficial.
Of course, we have to address the cm and DM issues as well.

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Nomid, I suspect we will address the striker situation next summer. Unless Welbeck has an exceptional season I think we will sell him. Van Persie will be 32. Hernandez will be gone, so I can see us looking at a striker next summer, if we sort out other areas out this summer.

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Well said "whats the Mata" good on you for standing up to the haters of the site.

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Sorry Syd but I got to ask.
Whats a world class 2nd striker lol, that does'nt make sense.

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20 Aug 2014 12:37:01
Thankyou Nani for your 7 years service to the club. I can't see him returning now, I'll always remember that one season he had a few years ago. No matter how inconsistent he was he always seemed to give it his all, hasn't complained the last 2-3 years when he wasn't picked regularly. He did play 228 times for us so I thought it was worth mentioning him.

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Not into abusing player's but nani's decision making is the worst I've ever seen , he has taken someone else's spot in the squad for far too long and I am delighted to finally get rid

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I won't stoop to slagging 1 of ours off but 1 of the issues with Nani is that he regularly appeared to not be giving his all.

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Nani has given us some incredible moments, hitting some screamers, finishing some beautiful passing moves, taunting Arsenal with that seal dribble, and getting sent off harshly v Real Madrid. Shame there was all those other moments when we were screaming at him to pass the ball. Time for him to go, but all the best, Nani.

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Nani, Anderson & cleverly have all had more then enough time and chances to prove they deserve a place in our squad and none of them have done time for them all to go

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20 Aug 2014 12:23:54
More stories today that we are set to offer cleverly a new contract is their any fans that are in favour of this? I can only think of 1 decent performance of his and that was the comeback win against city in the community shield a few years back can anyone else think of other games that stand out?

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You can't have 25 superstars, the club has based its historical success on having solid club men who do a job when called on and who don't complain at being on the bench. Chances are that will be Cleverley so whilst this is not the great signing we want it should not be derided as a move.

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8-2 vs arsenal, hell before he had that bad injury he looked pretty promising, cut the kid some slack, it's not his fault, he always seems to try and I bet if he was at a club like hull or Southampton people would say he's underrated and a good little player, similar to people bigging players like huddlestone up

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It's ok trying.
Fellaini trys but nobody cuts Fellaini any slack do they.
He isn't good enough and needs moving on.

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To me Cleverly is a jack off all trades master of none Valuable player in my mind to have on the bench with ten minutes to go to close down players with his running if your winning but not if your losing

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But cleverly is no longer a kid and everyone of us if offered the chance to play for utd would run around eagerly and work hard but it doesn't mean we are good enough i'm not saying he should be shot or anything like that but I would much rather see powell, pearson, petrucci or rothwell get a chance because we don't yet know what these players could offer where as we know what cleverly will do even before kick off as he does the same everytime he plays

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Cleverly isn't a jack of all trades, he is the master of one skill, the sideways pass. As far as I'm concerned Cleverly has absolutely no business anywhere near our squad. A midfield player who openly admits that he can't shoot or tackle, and still thinks that he is grossly underrated. Sell him to a Spanish club since he thinks he'd take la liga by storm

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Matas - Great line "Cleverly is a Jack off" are you saying he is "Wa_k", if so I agree he isn't Utd quality even as a squad player if you go back 5 years - but possibly now he fits right in to the averageness around Old Trafford.

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20 Aug 2014 11:54:32
Barcelona have had there transfer ban upheld for the next 2 transfer windows. No Hummels for them then. Here is hoping he heads our way.

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Hummels can join them in the next 12 days.

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20 Aug 2014 11:51:18
I'd say our chances of signing Reus or Hummels next year have just gone up with Barcelona losing their appeal to sign new players in the January and Summer windows of 2015. So as long as they don't get them this year I think we are in with a real chance.

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Fresh, Hummels could move to Barcelona this window, hopefully we aren't completely out of the picture. Reus could make a move to BM next summer. I think that ship has sailed.

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20 Aug 2014 11:57:29
i was thinking the same but no doubt BM, RM and a few english clubs would also be interested.

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One of them will certainly end up a Bayern at some point in the future. They always do.

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Next year chelsea will probably challenge for hummels to replace john terry

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Reus has apparantle already turned us down.
There is little chance he will end up at United.

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Not at all they will just spend a lot of money in the remainder of this window

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Is it just me that feels unfortable about Barcelona being able to spend the amount they are this window to offset the next 2, allows you to plan for the impact and over compensate.
Kind of defeats the object of the penalty if you ask me (although I would want our club to do the same if it was us!).
Maybe a compromise would be that they have a cap that they are allowed to spend this window once the appeal was put in, maybe £50m after outgoings.

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20 Aug 2014 13:26:43
I don't think Reus would go to Bayern, he's a Dortmund boy, but then again so was Gotze.

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Simmo, Reus turned us down in favour of Barcelona.

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Sydney, I said that they could join this window in the post - I am well aware of that.

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Fresh, I am hoping we go for Hummels after Benatia looks like going to BM. But I think we have balked again.

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I know that Syd, I was merely stating that he turned us down.

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20 Aug 2014 11:50:50
I'm expecting another player from left field, as it appears to be our way this window. The club are very secretive with targets and I expect that to continue this week. The news that both Muller & Reus turned us down says two things 1. we have money to spend but 2. we have lost our appeal to some top players.

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We have always and money to spend and most of the stuff posted on that subject is bs

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20 Aug 2014 11:43:51
New outgoing rumour - Sunderland bid £15 million for Welbeck. Surely we can't let Welbeck and Hernandez go with less than two weeks remaining?

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Welbeck is our only source of pace through the middle. He won't be going.

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Far to good for sunderland

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20 Aug 2014 11:43:17
Barcelona have had their transfer ban upheld. They will not be able to sign any players between now and January 2016.

There's also talk that Fellaini has picked up a serious ankle injury and will be out for an extended period of time.

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September 1st 2014 - January 1st 2016.

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Should point out that I was wrong here. They can still sign players this window (pretty useless ban in many ways).

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20 Aug 2014 10:30:51
Just wondered peoples thoughts on Nani being used in Rojo deal any indication a winger is imminent? I know he was not going to be a starter and may be nothing but with Zaha also set to leave and rumours today fee agreed for Di Maria? in the space of 48 hours has woody turned things around?

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I think it's obvious the club want Di Maria and also have an interest in Cuadrado. So a pacey wideman is certainly in the pipeline.

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Nani departing to me doesn't suggest that we will get a winger as he is more than likely a fringe player. However, interest is clearly there and we are working towards that end. Zaha will be next out the door I'm sure. I will be surprised if we beat PSG to Di Maria - he is a fantastic player though and I'd love to see him here.

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"Zaha will be next out the door I'm sure"

I'm sure you said just 11/12 days ago this:

"Sydney, if Cuadrado comes in why would
Rafael or Zaha be sold? Nani and Valencia would be more likely. If Rafael went we would have no recognised natural right back. And Zaha is playing up front."

What a difference 11/12 days makes :)

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Zaha going to Crystal Palace Nani gone to Sporting CP could Di Maria be ready to come in his versatility would be great left wing right wing centre mid if he played right wing back it could be Jones could play just behind him and Shaw could stay back have a four man back line with Jones Smalling Rojo Shaw what do people think

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20 Aug 2014 10:03:41
I know there has been a lot of criticism of Woodward and the Glazers about spending but keep in mind yesterday's signing of Rojo make it our most expensive transfer window ever. I know there has been other windows when money should have been spent and wasn't but there does seem to be a lot of knee jerk reaction. What does worry me is that we seem to be unable to attract the very top stars anymore, and I don't think it's necessarily just down to no champions league or not offering high wages, as it seems to be happening for a few years now. Kroos, Fabregas, Bale, Muller, Reus, etc. all turned down big money offers from United, yet Kroos and Fabregas deals seemed to be completed with ease with Real and Chelsea. Is it just solely down to Manchester not being as glamorous as Madrid and London to live in?

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MU can attract the players if they coughed up the cash. MU are reluctant to pay what is needed and always penny pinch. I genuinely believe there is plenty of cash to spend this summer, but I think Ed Woodward may mess things up again trying to impress his employers, there is talk that he has ballsed up a couple targets already this summer. I keep saying that this summer is not the summer to penny pinch, if the club want to go back to doing that in the future then that's fine, but we need the right players signed this summer. Two CBs (one of which a warrior), two CM's (one of which a warrior), LB & pace upfront. So far 50% of the work is done. We need the other 50% concluded in just 12 days. Difference is the next 50% of players are far more expensive and harder to achieve.

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Reports today Sydney though that both Muller and Reus turned down massive offers from United, double your wages kind of offers!

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This isn't new news jomu83 mate. This was confirmed by the editor months ago. Mueller never wanted to leave BM, but was on a very low salary before our interest. He is enjoying a much larger salary due to our interest. Reus simply chose Barcelona ahead of us, but that deal failed to materialise. A month ago there was rumours that Reus was angry at Barcelona for his snub as he turned down a "dream move" to MU for them. I suspect he will move to BM next summer like they all do :)

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Syd,
i hope the groundwork is there for the deals of the mentioned names. Or else I don't think there is enough time to get 3 transfers done in 12 days.

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There is one thing attracting players, and there is another attracting players that love their clubs. Players like Reus and Muller love their clubs or have a particular club that they would love to join. You cannot blame a player for joining someone like Real Madrid - living in Spain, a star studded team, fantastic climate. Some people don't want to live in Manchester - that is part of the problem.

When a star wants to leave we haven't done too badly of late though - we got RVP and Mata who are world class players who could have gone elsewhere. It is always about money and if you are foreign you may not have allegiances to MU.

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20 Aug 2014 11:52:18
Fresh ,

Whereabouts was the elsewhere that Mata could have gone to for 37M?

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20 Aug 2014 11:54:01
Thing what things like this coming out does show is that Ed002 is generally spot on with the information he gives us and should not be hounded by people, just read what he / she says, it usually answers everything.

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Of course its money that talks man city have no problem in convincing top players to come to manchester

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20 Aug 2014 10:00:30
Does the lack of sales impede our development and ability to spend the money needed on top quality players. We all know the money is there as Ed Woodward has crowed about (I am sure he regrets this now) but you also have to balance the books with out goings.
At the minute there appear to be no serious buyers for Nani (now on loan), Fellaini, Anderson, Cleverly, Kagawa, Henriquez (now on loan) etc. so we are left with merely spending and having nothing to offset this which will scare the money men at the club.
In comparison Chelsea are able to generate a decent return on sales.
Is this because:
1. The players are not good enough
2. We are unrealistic in our valuations
3. The players are paid too much and no one will pick up there salary
Either way we appear to have a problem as I think the players listed would do a good job at other clubs.

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20 Aug 2014 09:52:30
The press are reporting that Benatia has agreed terms / favours Bayern and that will be his only destination. In my opinion we have a new center back now and we should stick with what we have because other areas are far more important now. We need a quick forward and a solid central midfielder - that is desperate, another center back would be more of a luxury at this moment in time. I'm going to say we will get Di Maria and De Jong - but I won't rule out moves for Blind and also a deadline day deal for Strootman.

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Another centre back is a necessity, not a luxury. Rojo is the left footed centre back that Van Gaal has said he wanted. He'll play on the left of the 3 but there is still a need for a world class defender to play centrally in that 3. A centre midfielder is needed too but don't negate the need for more defensive reinforcements. What isn't needed is a wide player like Di Maria, unless he's going to play right wing back or unless there's going to be a switch to 4-3-3.

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I still feel another centre back would help tremendously and is more necessary than someone like Di Maria. Although a good midfielder is really the priority now probably.

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I want to give our young centre backs a chance but this will only happen with a top holding midfielder and one that understands what is needed with 3 at the back. This will alleviate the pressure on them.
I want Vidal or Strootman (Vidal if only for him being available immediately). However if neither possible then De Jong/Carvallho to do the Matic/water carrier role for us.
If we stick 3412 then we need a Cuadrado as much as a Di Marea and would take both if available as that would allow 433 as well.
We can then look at a few lesser additions towards the end of next week to top us off. Blind/Vlaar etc.

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Don't get me wrong, a central center back would be brilliant but if we have to wait for Hummels or whatever and get by then so be it. A winger is a necessity 100%. We have no pace in the side which means the opposition and hold a high line and press our midfield which means they have less time on the ball. A player like Di Maria would press them back with the threat of his dribbling. We need more pace.

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20 Aug 2014 09:12:43
Eds any update on where Carvalho is going to?

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{Ed002's Note - Try the European pages for such information.}

20 Aug 2014 07:24:00
We need a Patrick Viera or Makelele or Yaya Toire type of Defensive Mid. We actually have a very good young team but without a solid defensive mid player who can sit in front of the back 3, take cards when the D is exposed we will leak and not win.

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Totally agree. I listed this few days ago. Carvalho will be ideal, I'm amazed we are not chasing gim.

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If we don't get Vidal and Strootman isn't fit enough then we have to close the deal for De Jong as he would bring some fight and steel into the middle alongside Herrera - that for me is what is missing.

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I can only assume ....

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{Ed002's Note - If you want to discuss formations then take it to the Teams and Formations page.}

19 Aug 2014 20:19:01
Do the Ed's know if Carvallho was discussed in any of the Rojo negotiations? Historically we have a good relationship with Sporting, I understand that they want to sell in order to re-invest so this may be a deal that can be done!

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{Ed002's Note - Not that I am aware.}

19 Aug 2014 19:29:53
Just a word of thanks to Ed002 today. Knowing that we have in fact at least been making real efforts for those players gives us a big lift today.

Surely the whole lot of us have become mentally ill this summer. Now . back to the possibilities of Vidal, Di Maria, Benatia, Cuadrado

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It is more stressful than watching united and that's saying something!

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20 Aug 2014 04:10:41
rojo is a good player, is versatile and will do well IMO
I think we are going to see several big deals over yhe next 10 days. Ed002 has confirmed as much.
Real Madrid have shopping to do
PSG have to buy and sell a couple
We have to buy and sell a few
spurs likewise
inter and ac need to buy
Juve would like to sell one and buy 2 more
Barca need to buy again before their ban kicks in
There has been a lot of posturing and flirting between clubs. come Sep 1st we will be in much better shape with 3 or 4 new players. Patience is the key I have not resorted to panic yet

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20 Aug 2014 02:49:34
On BT Sport the other day, they were all talking about how Tyler Blackett suddenly jumped the que and got himself a starting 11 place ahead of all the other young defenders at the club. They were saying how he wasn't rated as highly as some of the others but clearly LvG see's something in him.

Tbh, I think Tyler Blackett has only been playing because he's a left footer. What do you guys think?

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20 Aug 2014 08:37:37
Thats harsh, he was always rated highly by the club. He went off the boil abit last season and struggled to start with when he stepped up to the under 21's. But he is a tall athletic lad with pace, who is vomfortable on the ball and has a good understanding of the game. Yes Micheal Keane was thought of as being a bit ahead of him in terms of development but LvG took both out on tour and Blackett out shone Keane infront of LvG so that's why he may have chosen him ahead of Keane.

Being left footed probably does help a little bit as it gives more balance to the back three, and when you consider that in this formation the LCB has to cover the LB space as well to some degree then being left footed will help. Only the very best full backs can play at the highest level on the opposite side to their stronger foot, so it will mean the same for the LCB position.

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I don't think LvG would selects player just because he is left footed. That's doing a huge disservice to the player.
I agree that being "correct" footed may well give more balance, but it does not always follow so.
In my opinion, United best left back that I have seen (and I am 41 next month) was Denis Irwin. Although he was excellent with both feet, he was naturally right footed.

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He was never going to make it at MU as a left-back and was heckled at by the Birmingham fans. It was a good move by LvG to put him in the LCB role, I guess he reminded him a little of Martins-Indi. He put him there and he has stepped up. I suspect another loan move beckons if we can bring in one more CB.

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" I guess he reminded him a little of Martins-Indi." Sydney

You mean they have the same colour skin?

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Both play LCB.

Both play LB.

Both left-footed.

Both similar in build and strength.

Both aggressive in their styles of play.

Skin colour is kind of irrelevant here mate.

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19 Aug 2014 23:55:11
Any chance we could go for Muniain?

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That ship sailed a while ago, his contract expired a few months ago but he renewed with Bilbao for another 4 or 5 years ago.

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19 Aug 2014 19:26:36
Question for the Ed's or anyone in the know.
I refuse to believe that 1 loss would completely change the plan for a transfer window, but would it speed up the process of getting players in or loosen the purse strings to pay a bit more to guarantee the players come in.
Just feels as there is more activity this week.

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19 Aug 2014 17:36:15
No wonder the eds get hacked off .every day we are reading vidal and di maria, yet if they were coming i'm sure they would be here by now unless they re taking a slow boat.Both have had plenty of time and di maria wants PSG not Man u so why sign someone whos heart is not in the team for silly money?Better to have a player who wants to play for the team.As far as Vidal goes this is just another saga, same as last year and in the hands of a fool who can't get deals done so I can't see this coming off.No CL this year isn't helping thanks to Moyes and the team, of which we still have most from last year with less players and defenders so how can things change? Only some new faces and old ones on the bus elsewhere.With woodward driving it.

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19 Aug 2014 23:14:47
Just seen a stat that Marcos Rojo clocked up a speed of approximately 19mph at the World Cup, second highest to Arjern Robben, imagine having one of the fastest players in the world at CB!

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19 Aug 2014 22:14:36
Happy enough with the signing of Rojo. If we sign Vidal I'll be chuffed with this window. I still think we need a top drawer center back, a right back and two top quality wingers (these are not really a priority but will be needed if and when LVG decides to switch back to his favored 4-3-3) - but with a midfield 3 of Mata, Vidal and Herrera and a front two of Rooney and RVP - I'm confident we will finish in the top 4.

A side note; I see that we've agreed a sell on fee with Lisbon as part of the Rojo deal (20% of anything over £18.4m). I don't tend to pay much attention to clauses and whatnot but find this a little odd. Has anybody heard about any of our other players having similar clauses? Perhaps they looked at the Ronaldo deal and figured lightning might strike twice?

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Sporting always like these kind of clauses.

Just thinking that SL have now lost Dier and Rojo in one window. When they lose Carvalho, they could really suffer defensively.

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