Manchester United Banter Archive January 20 2014

 

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20 Jan 2014 23:37:02
In tomorrow's Telegraph, there is going to be an article about us submitting a 37 million bid for Juan Mata.

Gary Neville just said it's unlikely and Mata doesn't really fit into our style of play, unless Moyes is willing to lose one of Rooney/ Van Persie and wants to play a narrower formation.

Would be the best signing in quite a while imo. An interchanging front 3 of Rooney, Kagawa and Mata ( with Januzaj covering all 3 positions when needed ) ina narrow 4-2-3-1 would be jaw dropping, especially with Van Persie back and banging in the goals.

All we'd need in this window would be Coentrao, who would balance the attack, with him and Rafael offering width and 2 of Jones, Carrick, Fletcher, Fellaini and Cleverley playing deep and covering the fullbacks' forward arrays

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{Ed004's Note - I think if Mata was to be signed it would prove to be the end of Rooney and highlight that he wants to leave in the summer}

A shame he's played 104 minutes in the ECL. That's the formation a lot of us were hoping for in the summer but I can't help agreeing with Ed004 that us signing another number ten would be a clear indication that Rooney will leave in the summer.

If we're somehow able to convince him to stay and bulk up the midfield and defense with Vidal, Gundogan, Garay and Coentrao over the next 8 months we suddenly have a fantastic starting 11.

My gut says we will not sign Mata though. He's not the sort of player I see Moyes going for and I'd be surprised if a £40m bid wouldn't be enough to at least tempt Barcelona/Juventus into selling one of Pogba, Vidal or Fabregas - all three of whom would probably suit our side a little better than Mata. If we were going to spend that kind of money it would be on one of them.

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Ed, I think that may be true, but Mata has what it takes to fill Rooney's shoes, and hopefully let us move in the right direction.

I honestly believe playing with natural wingers is a thing of the past, and we should be moving to a narrower formation. The bids for Fabregas show that Moyes might be leaning towards a more compact style.

On another note, the independent, an even more reliable newspaper than Telegraph, just published a similar article. If The Guardian joins in on the rumour, there might just be some truth in it

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Mick1, If Mata replaced Rooney (big if), I do not believe it will be to replace him. He will play on the left and MU will actively look to sign another striker.

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20 Jan 2014 22:25:33
After the Swansea game a load of people on here were going crazy about the possession they had

I see no-one's larking on about possession for yesterdays game which is one of the only areas we actually won in

Just thought I'd point that out and I feel for DM cause he really can't please anyone, win and less possession is bad and lose and more possession is bad

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The issue with the first half of the Swansea game (at least for me) was that we were outplayed. Had we been the better team it would not have bothered me that much that the half finished 0-0 - but given how poorly we were playing the possession served as a great indicator to show just how much better they were. I don't think I mentioned the possession in the end because we got the result we needed - but all the same - to concede that much possession at home to a team that is three points above the relegation zone is not good.

I did post about 40 minutes into the Chelsea game to say how happy I was with our performance to that point. Unfortunately we fell apart not long after that - and my post match comments highlighted just how bad we were defensively for the second two goals (and Jones for the first) and how negative we were towards the last thirty minutes.

I can't speak for everybody else - but I am not happy when we play boring/ugly football and more so when we fail to get a result doing so. As good as we were in the first fifteen minutes of the Chelski game we were far worse in the second half and for that reason I was not happy with the overall performance. Likewise with the Swansea game - I was happy with the result but not the performance! I'd rather we were adventurous and lost than boring and won - but for the most part this season we've been boring and lost.

Moyes will begin to please fans when he gets his act in gear. The squad needs / the fans want reinforcements brought in. If he does that he will win a few people over. If he starts playing attractive football he will win a few more over. If he does both of the aforementioned things we will start to win things - and that will shut everybody up.

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Bennett, fair point mate. I noticed the same thing, but like I posted after the Swansea match, some people get too hung up on statistics. They mean FA, apart from the Goals Scored stats after the match.

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Betey

I agree the star can be very misleading. Goals win games and at the moment we are very industrial, slow with our build up play and lack quality upfront with the 2 main talisman out. I still think it is an accident when Bambi scores :)

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20 Jan 2014 21:45:00
Right well we are more than half way through the season and we are failing badly.

Some will say that Moyes isn't good enough, and there is a at least a basis for this arguement but it maybe too early to tell.

Some will say that the injuries have killed us, and when yo look at the number of games that we have had both RvP and Rooney fit for then that too has a strong case.

I think a more realistic areguement is that Sir Alex was such a good manager that he alone was worth at least 10 points a season. If you were to add 10 points to our current tally then we would only be 4 points off top spot even with our injuries. Add to that the change and how that has effected players who have only known one manager at the club then it was always obvious that we were going to struggle.

But for me the biggest thing this season has done is to open the eyes of so many just how poor the playing staff are at the club. The ones you could always depend on have got old and are past their best, the ones who have replaced them just aren't up to the same standard as their predcessors. Add to this the number of players in the squad who just haven't lived up to expectation and it becomes clear that a huge change is needed.

Now we have always under Sir Alex been a club that has been about evolution rather than revolution. But Revolution is upon us whether we want it or not. We have had whole sale changes in coaching staff, now we need whole sale changes in the playing staff to so we can move on from the old regime.

Sir Alex has been possibly the most important manager in our history, and I know its scary to cut all ties. But the longer his presence hangs around the longer this natural progression will take. It has happened before with not just our own club but at Liverpool too, the long serving departing manager has a dragging effect on the new regime as the players are his players and prefer his training methods.

We need to remember when a new player joins a club we always say about the settling in period, that period of time that it takes a new player to adjust to his new surroundings and new players and staff. Atm we have a whole squad of players who are trying to settle in and they have no one to look to to learn from or who can help them settle. Some will thrive and some will completely reject the new regime, unfortunately that means there will be a lot of players who will need to move out the club and just as many who can come in. Normally this is a very bad idea as it can upset the apple cart, but the apple cart is upset and the sooner we can get a harmonious dressing room the sooner we can start to progress and move on.

So let's look at the squad from a more objective manner.

The Goalkeepers are very solid, we have DDG who is turning into a world class keeper. Lindegaard is as solid a back up keeper as you could need, and if he leaves then Amos deserves a chance and Johnstone is great coming through. The only issue we could have in this area is if DDG wants to leave due to either unhappy with the new regime or possible lack of UCL football for next season.

So we move on to defence, and its very clear that we have major issues here. First off Rio Vidic and Evra are past their best and need to be moved on, their legs are failing them and all they will do from here on in is damage their reputation and legacy with the fans. Add to that Buttner doesn't look like he is ready or able to step up, and Fabio look like a lost cause this leaves us with Rafael, Evans, Smalling and Jones all of which have had injury problems over the last few years.

So we need a left back an experianced centre back and someone who can cover and offer competition to both full back positions.

Now Baines was the first choice for LB but the club looks like they have moved on, Fabio Coentrao looks like the clubs first choice now, with his experiance and the fact that he's entering his prime he is an obvious choice. Alex Sandro and Ricardo Rodriguez are good options if we are looking for a younger option.

Centre back is interesting as there are some good options for younger players such as Zouma, Schar or Mangala. But we need a leader and someone who can marshall the back line. My first choice would be Benatia, but its very unlikely he'll be available. So Who is there?

Well Garay is the obvious choice and he is a very good option, two others we should consider are Ranocchia or Dede both at 25 have good experiance but are just entering their prime and still have room for improvement.

The last place needed in defence is a full back who can cover both full back positions, for me the best and obvious choice is Davide Santon, he has prem experiance, is young and is as good at RB as he is at LB and he could offer serious competiton to Rafael and the new LB while still leaving space for young defenders from the academy to push for a place.

Personally i'd sign Coentrao, Ranocchia and Santon. Add them to Rafael, Evans, Jones and Smalling then we have a good mix of young talent and experiance to build a solid defensive unit moving forward.

Now is where it gets complicated, Midfield. Now depending on how Moyes wants to play moving forward will have a direct effect on who we want in midfield. If we want to play a pressing game then we will need a high energy box to box player who can grab a few goals and create chances with bursts forward. If he wants to play a more soak up and counter style then he'll need a deeplying playmaker who'll sit and dictate from deep. Personally I feel both are needed as Carrick is getting on now and we need more players for flexibilty.

For the box to box role its hard to look past Vidal, but Witsel and Gundogan are great options, we could also move for Banega, Rakitic, Herrera, Pjanic or even Dembele.

We need one of these players, personally i'd go with Vidal or Gundogan but any of the other could be a great option.

As for a playmaker who'll sit and dictate I feel the best option is Jordy Clasie, he'd be inexpensive and a great option to take over form Carrick in a year or two's time.

I'd like to see Vidal and Clasie, along with Carrick, Fellaini, Fletcher and Cleverley then we have several options to ab able to adjust how we want to play, either a B2B and DM with Vidal and Fellaini, a playmaker and B2B with Carrick and Vidal or a DM and playmaker with Fellaini and Clasie. We could even let Cleverley move on and replace him with Powell if we want to.

Now keeping with tradition things get even more complicated when we move even further forward. I think who leaves plays more of a part in the forward department then who we want. Now we have three great attacking talents with Rvp Rooney and young boy Januzaj. which means we need one more quality wide player to create a unit, Reus is the obvious choice and personally one of the most vital players we need to sign. With RvP's injury record, Januzaj being too young to rely on and Rooney who has always blown hot and cold we need a dependable and quality option to put fear into our opponants. Other options if Reus is beyond us are Cabella, Konoplyanka, Tello or Draxler. All good options but all have potential issues either being maybe too young to depend on, unproven, or a risk. This for me is why Reus is so vital.

After signing Reus the next biggest issue for us is the potential departure of Rooney, if he leaves then we will need both an AM and a ST to replace Waynes unique talents and flexibilty, Koke and Diego Costa would be the best options for me, but getting both Koke and Costa from AM will be nearly impossible. So maybe we could look at Alex Teixeira instead of Koke. Hopefully Wayne decides to stay then only one other player will be needed this will depend on whether Moyes sees Rooney as more of a ST or AM, personally i'd move for an AM as I think Wayne works better in the striker role, and its always more expensive to sign strikers and with our huge outlay that will be needed then it maybe makes more sense to sign an AM who'd be cheaper.

So if Rooney can be pursuaded to stay then i'd like to see us sign Marco Reus and Alex Teixeira, if Rooney leaves then someone like Diego Costa would be needed as well, Cavani would be another option.

So I feel in to move forward we need a dramatic turnover in staff with Coentrao, Ranocchia, Santon, Vidal, Clasie, Alex Teixeira and Reus all moving to the club with Rio, Vidic, Evra, Fabio, Anderson, Nani, Young, Kagawa and Hernandez all leaving with Buttner, Cleverley and maybe Rooney leaving too.

The short fall in numbers would be made up with youth players like Powell, Lingard, Micheal Keane, Blackett and Will Keane.

Hope you enjoyed the read and would love to hear any feed back.

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{Ed004's Note - I agree massive changes are needed however I don't think Ranocchia is good enough he is far too inconsistent and haven't seen enough of Dede. I think we should push the boat out and go for Mangala and Coentrao. Mangala and Evans would be a very good partnership IMO and I'm happy with Rafael who has Valencia, Jones, Smalling, and Janko and Varela coming through. Even Vermjl is doing well on loan. Now in midfield I agree with your options however I think we should move for Gundogan and Vidal would could form unbelievable partnership. I'd sell Rooney lastly to fund a move for Reus. So a front 3 of Januzaj, Kagawa, Reus with Zaha, Lingaard, Powell and Valencia covering. Then over next few seasons we won't need as big a changes. After next season we would need to start looking at strikers. Maybe if Rooney goes and there's enough funds left over after others have been sold Nani, Anderson, Young etc then another attacker such as Mata, Koke, fabregas, Di Maria could be looked at}

Would take Vidal, Coentrao, Teixiera and Reus every day of the week.

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Smalling not good enough and never will be. Evans ok as back up in my opinion.

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20 Jan 2014 22:40:14
Ed004, I really like the look of Mangala, I just think he maybe abit young to be our defensive leader, that's why I feel the CB we bring in should be at least 25/26 so they have experiance and can lead and organise our defence.

Rafael is one of my favourite players but we don't have anyone who is a natural full back to challenge him for his place, they are either too young or not a full back, that is why I feel Santon would be an ideal signing as he offers strong competition to both full backs and if there is and injury to Rafa or the new LB then playing Santon doesn't weaken our defence. Also because he can cover both positions there isn't a need to keep someone like Buttner who would just restrict the chances for players such as Blackett, Janko or Vermjil.

A partnership of Gundogan and Vidal would be a dream, but the chances of being able to sign both are very slim, that why I feel we will probably have to go all out for one. Vidal is the better of the two imo and the player i'd prefer, if we got Gundogan though instead I wouldn't be too disheartened. Lol. Although maybe going for someone like William Carvalho would be a good idea instead of Clasie in that case.

I'm not sure I would be too kean to push Wayne out the door, not at least until the club was in a better position. Him leaving in the summer would make it that much harder to sign players. I'd even be tempted to make him play out his final year rather than see him go, it would allow for a smoother transition.

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{Ed004's Note - I think Evans should be at the age were he should be using his experience to lead the back line. Hence I think him and Mangala would be good together. I'm still not sure we need rb cover I'd address that next January if its still a concern}

I agree with Ed004, Evans is and will be the leader of our defense in the coming years, and just because a player is experienced does not mean he's good enough. Garay and Rannochia are highly capable, but neither if them is/ can be world class. Mangala is good enough to reach the heights of the likes of Vidic and Ferdinand, as is Jones imo. So until these 2 form an experienced partnership ( we can only hope ) Evans should be our leader at the back. After all he's just as experienced as the aforementioned 2.

Santon is a possibility if Vermijl is deemed not good enough, but I honestly believe this kid has something!

As for the central midfield role, both Gundogan, Banega and Pjanic are creators, technical midfielders who's need a more physical beast next to them. None of them would reach their top form with Carrick next to them, and the jury is still out on Fellaini and Fletcher. And if that doesn't change until the end of the window, I believe we'd need 2 midfielders.

One of Witsel, Dembele, Vidal with one of Gundogan, Veratti, Pjanic and Clasie.

As for the left wing role, I'd rather have Draxler, who would not gather as much attention as Reus imo, and has the potential to be just as good if not better.

Mata seems like a potential replacement to Rooney, and a 4-2-3-1 with Reus/Draxler, Mata/Kagawa and Januzaj/ Zaha, using creative wingers ( hopefully inverted ) with more to their game than run and cross would go a long way into getting us back on the upper echelons of European football.

All in all, in a perfect world, i'd have Rafael, Jones/ Mangala, Evans Coentrao, Vidal, Gundogan, Januzaj, Mata, Reus and Van Persie in a 4-2-3-1 with inverted wingers. It would be a very creative, very fast moving team, with Gundogan and Vidal covering the full backs when we need width, Evans and Jones maintaining a very high line, Zaha and Januzaj ( on the left ) playing as natural wingers when the need arises, and Kagawa covering the 3 attacking midfield positions.

Now for the striker, Van Persie is still a world class forward, and Welbeck is proving to be very useful while Chicha is improving by the second. No need for a striker just yet

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But for me the biggest thing this season has done is to open the eyes of so many just how poor the playing staff are at the club. The ones you could always depend on have got old and are past their best, the ones who have replaced them just aren't up to the same standard as their predcessors. Add to this the number of players in the squad who just haven't lived up to expectation and it becomes clear that a huge change is needed.
Snappy

An other one that has seen the light

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21 Jan 2014 09:48:48
Mick, I think Hernandez will definately be gone come the start of next season. He has hardly had a kick under Moyes and it looks like his time is up unfortunately.

So that just leaves RvP Rooney and Welbeck as recognised strikers, now Welbeck has improved this season and has found some kind of form infront of goal, but with RvP having his injuries return and him now being into his 30's and Rooney maybe leaving we just can't risk going into next season with just RvP and Welbeck. that's why I feel we need a new striker, but only if Rooney leaves.

I really like Mangala, and I rate Evans. But if Vidic and Rio leave this summer which looks likely what happens when Evans is injuried? Our most experianced CB would be Smalling, that's a scary thought. that's why I feel we need someone with abit more experiance. Maybe in Garay really is the best option.

I agree the issue with Gundogan is he needs a more physical presence alongside him, that's why I would prefer Vidal( a player me and Jono were calling out for before he joined Juve). A summer of Vidal and Clasie or Gundogan and Carvalho as I think a dream combination of Vidal and Gundogan is beyond us.

Either way I feel we need at least 6 players maybe as many as 8 if Rooney leaves.

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Smalling and Jones need a run of games at the back. If Smalling cannot improve his passing, then perhaps we should look at Garay or Subotic in the summer? That's if Garay hasn't already been sold. Smalling is not a right-back, he is a CB and he shouldn't be left out to accommodate Evans. He is a better defender than Evans, although Evans is better and more composed on the ball.

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I would sign a CB to replace Rio. It seems the club want Garay, but won't pay what Benfica want. I imagine Jones will replace Vidic. Smalling, Evans & Keane being back-up?

We clearly need a LB with Ev and Fabio leaving. I think Coentrao will be sufficient, although the club are looking at Filipe. Perhaps loan Buttner out for the rest of the season for experience?

I think we need a central midfielder. I don't think many will argue against the signing of Vidal. MU have an interest although it maybe difficult to do it now and the summer there maybe more interest from elsewhere.

Left-wing. There are a few decent players out there. Mata, Reus, Draxler and Greizmann to name four. I'm not sure there is any concrete evidence that we want any of these players. But Konopylanka has been mentioned by the editor.

So I think these are the obvious positions that need strengthening if players like Kagawa, Rooney & Hernandez stay. I guess there will be a few potentials bought too for the squad, but for me CB, LB, LW & CM are important areas.

Does everyone agree with that? I would hope that the LW and CM are top quality additions.

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20 Jan 2014 21:10:29
Hope Moyes was watching u21's 2nd half. Zaha taking people on everytime he got the ball. I know its only reserves, but he would always have defenders worried and on the back foot. Please give him some games at least off the bench. Him and Januzaj on either side would be great to see.

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20 Jan 2014 21:05:22
Anyone else heard the song the Everton fans are singing? Titled stuck with Moyes?

On one side it's quite humorous on the other were a laughing stock!

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{Ed004's Note - Can't make it out}

There is quite a few funny things floating around. One picture of moyes dressed like a drifter in a backpack trying to hitch a ride with a sign saying Goodison park. I thought it was hilarious.

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And the United gods strike. last kick no goal. get in!

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Stuck with Moyes struck with Moyes man united.---playing football in the negative way

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20 Jan 2014 20:26:09
Lots of unhappy bunnies on here but the reality is we've had decades of fantastic teams and success and perhaps now is our downtime. We won the Champions Cup with Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs and Cantona. We've won the Premiership loads but nothing lasts forever. The team has been on the way down for a few years and we haven 't rebuilt well yet. The team is not old but is ageing, we have notable weaknesses and a new management team. Others, such as City and Chelsea have been bankrolled by billionaires. If you throw that much money at a team it will produce results, for sure. Whether it s sustainable is another matter.
Moyes hasn't started well and buying Felllaini was a knee-jerk mistake. It's important now that we don't buy senselessly in this window just to finish 4th. Spending millions doesn't guarantee success unless they are the right players and I'd rather finish 7th this season and rebuild properly in the Summer rather than mess it up now. Moyes needs our support to carry out a proper reconstruction. He has until the end of next season to start getting it right, I think he will.

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Sensible post Paulo. Only thing I don't agree with is when we've been successful then now its OK to have downtime. This is a business, and its never OK to have downtime. Real, barca, bayern don't have downtime, they just keep evolving and improving.
But I agree with you on everything else, fellaini is totally the wrong man, and we don't need to buy senselessly as you say. Promote some of the youngsters and see where they take us.
The only I unknown is Moyes, we really don't know his capabilities. Hearing the Everton fans chanting this song, and seeing what's happened so far is not filling me with confidence. But hopefully things will change.

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Agree with most of what you've said, although I still think it's too early to call Fellaini a poor signing. He's only featured a couple of times this season and is a unique sort of player that with the right tactics could be very effective.

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Nomid

I agree we should not have down times in an ideal world but it happens to every major sport franchise and it is about how competitive you can remain whilst managing the transition of building new teams and fergie was superb at that.

I would say given what Real have spent they are going through a downtime. I would also argue, It was not too long ago that even Barca went through a poor period and really rebuild and came back from within their youth ranks.

Bayern had their down time 4 or 5 years ago and went through a rebuilding whilst dortmund was winning things in Germany.

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Barcelona Madrid and Munich have all had down time over the last 20 years while United have continued to be successful

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20 Jan 2014 19:58:21
If we so readily have all these funds available then why not just go in with some strong forceful bids for a couple of top players we need now. I'm not suggesting it's as easy as that. But it would be nice to see some intent. Would 35-40 million not be enough to at least be allowed to negotiate with players like Reus and Vidal?

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DM really wants what is dificult to get. We can still have great players in the market. Seems that we won't get anyone now and live the whole summer saga again.

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Moyes is just window shopping.
I do that sometimes when I have no money - just looking at what I can't afford and say to myself 'one day'

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20 Jan 2014 19:32:32
To be a big team, you simply have to be in the market for the best, and at this moment in time that means being prepared to spend more than 30m pounds on top players. With our transfer history since the Glazers bought us we have to accept we are no longer a big team. Yes, we are a storied and famous club, and for the time being we retain a worldwide fan base and marketing structure that's the envy of most, but we are at a crunch point. It's time to put up or shut up. If the money is there we will compete, if not, we won't - simple as that. and we will become a perpetual also ran. And frankly, it doesn't matter who the manager is. Good ones can make a difference within a certain range, but they are not going to overhaul the likes of City or Chelsea with their perpetual purchasing power

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Of course we are a big club. Utter dross! We are probably the biggest club in Europe bar perhaps Real Madrid. The size of a club is not dependent on how much you will spend on one player.

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Yea we are a massive club and for a long time will be. But I think the point is we should be competing in the transfer market to remain a big club. There is clearly a reason we are not spending whether it be our owners not willing to pay what's required or lack of trust in moyes by the money men

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GD, I agree, but how much we spend on one player doesn't determine how big we are as a club. Whether we are a big club or not isn't a matter of opinion, we are a big club. Just like Messi is a good player, if someone's opinion was that Messi was sh1te, it's not a debate is it? Messi isn't sh1te. MU are a big club. FACT.

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Messi wears rubbish suits . FACT!

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Sorry guys, from transfers point of view, we are light years away from city, chelsea, barca, real, bayern, PSG, Monaco. We do not compete in any shape or form, if you believe we are, then you're kidding yourself. £27m for Fabregas? Sorry but that's derisory. Double the amount and you might get barca thinking, though its too late now.
I travel to the mid and far east, and let me tell you, few years back, a lot of kids and their dads were wearing united shirts. Now, they are full of Madrid, barca, chelsea, even city for gods sake. These markets are very fickle. The glazers are riding high securing deals every other day, but if the team suffers, then so will their investment.
Problem is that they might just do enough every now and then, but I don't think they will or can compete with the big boys. Not in any shape or form.

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I was very careful to differentiate between a big team and a big club. The team is currently not worthy of the club and it won't be until we spend some money.

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Peashooter, to be fair we haven't been an exciting team since the days of Ronaldo and Tevez. It started getting away from us in 2009. Ronaldo left (couldn't be helped), Tevez jumped ship for double cash and a monster signing on fee. We missed out on Benzema at the final hour and Hargreaves and Anderson didn't ever get over their injuries. For me 2009 was when we started neglecting the team.

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I travel to the mid and far east, and let me tell you, few years back, a lot of kids and their dads were wearing united shirts

Nomidfield

I made this same point recently mate. I also travel extensively in Southeast Asia and China and I agree.

My other point was, it was superstar players that won the hearts and interest of these fans - Beckham, Ronaldo, Rooney, RVP. If we lose RVP/Rooney and don't replace them with world-class players, good luck selling shirts in Asia with Cleverly, Welbeck and Carrick on the back.

These fans want to follow a successful team, or at least an exciting team that competes and has stand-out players. So to keep the interest of these fans we need to remain competitive and have players that get them on the edge of their seats.

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20 Jan 2014 19:14:04
Just to clarify, Manchester United were not mentioned when Pjanic was 'flattered' by a link it was mentioned in relation to PSG.

Separate note, Zaha only a sub for U21's, what does the guy have to do to get a game!

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Ahh. I took the MEN at their word. They are usually fairly reliable with United related news.

I was just hoping for a 'We won't panic buy - but we will buy Pjanic' type headline to lighten the mood!

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20 Jan 2014 19:11:23
Pjanic on rumours linking him with a move to Manchester United.

"It's flattering and I am sure glad to hear that. I have become a supporter of Roma and should there be a transfer it will require that the three parties agree."

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20 Jan 2014 19:03:54
Please guys, don't see my posts as gloating and I realise that there is a long way to go before the end of the season. I live In Manchester so I realise that gloating can only bit me on the ass. I'm just pointing out what has gone wrong. In relation to your academy, the last time you produced anything of note was your platform to success. Recently thought, it's not been great. And Sydney, I wouldn't brag that cleverly was from your youth set up. All I am saying is that the board must have known fergie was leaving, so why didn't they put a plan together, instead of just seeing what happens next. When'd fergie left you lost more then just a manager. Unfortunately for you guys you replaced him with just a manager. In my opinion and a humble one at that, you should have gone for someone to steady the ship, perhaps a bit more experience to work alongside moves. A manager that could have taken the heat off him a bit more. Instead, moves was always doomed to fail in his first season and unfortunately it does not take long for the fans to get on his back.

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Who was the last top notch player to come from Liverpool's academy? Gerrard? How long ago? Kelly? Flanagan LOL. Chelsea's academy? Terry, although didn't he sign at 15? City's? Micah Richards perhaps? When it comes to talent being produced it's usually by us or Arsenal.

Like I said, top clubs have a good income or a good academy, we have both.

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Flanagan will be a top full back so no lol there. We have I've, Kelly, sterling although we did buy him at 15, Ibe, rossiter ask ed02 about him, infact, I would say that that our youth team looks promising. Sorry, I also forgot wisdom, McLaughlin, Alberto again bought, but still looks good, borini again another purchase but again good, Sturridge, Allen, yessil need I go on. We have the second youngest squad and a great young manager.

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They are all bought players. I can name bought players but you told me not to.

Wisdom bought at 15, Alberto bought at 20, Sturridge bought at 23, Yesil at 18, Ibe at 15, Sterling at 15, Allen 22, Borini at 21 were all bought.

The only senior players you have that was developed at Liverpool from a very young age are Gerrard, Kelly & Flanagan. That's it LOL.

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@red81

The word great is thrown around too loosely these days.
Is Brendan great? No, he isn't.

Great managers are people like Jose, Pep, Anchelotti to name a few. Brendan has a long long way to go to reach the great stauts.

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Red81. You signed Sturridge at 23. How exactly does that make him a product of your youth system?

Flanagan is not too bad and Ibe and Sterling both look promising (I've not heard of Rossiter or McLaughlin).

At 23 - I don't see Kelly improving much more which does not bode well - as he is a Championship player at best atm. Borini came through Chelski's youth setup and is a mid-table type player. Room to improve but some way to go.

Wisdom doesn't look too bad but again will never be world class. I've not seen Alberto but he came to you at 20 years old so can hardly be described as having come through your academy.

In short the only player of note to have come anywhere near your youth setup in recent years and shown any real promise is Sterlin - and he spent seven years with QPR before moving to Liverpool.

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You bought almost everyone you mentioned!

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Liverpool have a good youth, as does Chelsea, City have by far the best crop of youngsters. Not to forget Arsenal either.

what determines whether a player counts as a success? for me it's that player playing at a high level whether it's United or not.

Currently, United have more ex academy players playing EPL football than any other club.

Off the top of my head; Ben Foster, Ryan Shawcross, Wes Brown, John O'shea, Robbie Brady, Gibson, Campbell, Morrison, Daelhi.

and that's not counting the lads at United.

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Red81 you really will have these comments come back round in the not so distant future and bite you in the arse as Wilson and Pearson will be better than Owen and Gerrard throw in Januzaj and the Keane twins plus Perriera then the humble pie you will be eating for 15 years should taste sore as hell and leave you with a bad taste in your mouth

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Please do go on because sturridge and allen where far from youngsters when you got them and flanagan sorry to say squad player at best

just face the facts as syd said we will never fade away like liverpool did

ps there a long season to go yet who is to say we won't finish above you?

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And remind us where have united finished in the u21's for the last few years?

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LOL that is hilarious guys and good work. Basically not one player in that list is youth product. I needed something to cheer me up.

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Not sure you read my post. I mentioned the players we bought, however, what I was saying is that we have players to bring us forward. Look there is no point in arguing. We will see at the end of the season. And to redseven you will defiantly have heard of rossiter in two years time. That boy will grace the league will class.

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What is also funny is that their only product of note they have as in "Stevie G" is being slagged off as being past it on their own site . All because they drew at home to villa! Well funny!

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NM, I will answer you, we are the current U21 Champions.

2012/13 Champions of England.

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Kate, Wilson and Pearson will be fine players.

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Ok syd ill give you a list of lfc u21's who are showing real signs of promise at the moment! Alexander, biao, bizev, canos, chirivella, cleary, dunn (this lad is utter class) teixeira, trickett-smith, paez, rossiter who infact is only 16 and is brilliant, harry wilson who has already made his full international debut for wales at the age of 16. The teams last result? A 4-2 victory at arsenal. Not too bad eh? I understand that united do produce top young players, but to suggest that lfc aren't is wide of the mark! And these lads were just off the top of my head, there's many more!

ian the red

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Anyone can just name their youth team, we have 11 in our youth team as well, that's shows us nothing.

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Ian, I have never suggested Liverpool are not producing top young players. All clubs have top young players. Perhaps you should read what he wrote further down before you butt in. He asked me:

"when was the last time you produced a first team player and I don't mean a player you bought at 16"

I mentioned Cleverley, Welbeck, Ravel, Evans, Fletcher, Giggs. Then there's Scholes, Butt, Nevilles, Beckham etc. Then he mentioned Allen, Sturridge, Ibe, Sterling, Borini, Wisdom, Yesil & Alberto who were all purchased.

I didn't even mention the current academy players. As you will know MU aren't short of exceptional young talent either.

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20 Jan 2014 18:44:49
Jeez. Zaha only sub for under-21's. If this was a corporate environment Zaha would have a case for constructive dismissal.

This whole scenario highlights how poorly the transition between Moyes and SAF has been handled.

I fear that a real talent is being destroyed here, and I for one have sympathy for Zaha.

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Rubbish he is not performing as he should be and that us why he does not play
Andreas periera is on the bench and he has been far more impressive than Zaha all season
ARB

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Definitely things are not good. I can understand maybe not ready for first 11 but on the bench for U21 only points to some deeper issues.

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Might be trying him out for Wednesday, for the bench obviously.

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ARB

Where exactly have you seen Zaha "not performing"?

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Every time I've seen him play, he's looked up for it and very exciting to watch. So not sure where the 'not performing' comes from.
I would much rather see him on the wing than young, Valencia or nani.

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20 Jan 2014 18:37:58
Lot of talk of Pjanic after the player himself stated he's flattered by the rumoured interest from United.
Do we have an Arsenal situation going on here where the manager is stating we have money for players, when in reality we don't?
I'm just wondering because of all this "no value" rubbish. There are clearly players available.

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Helmut, there are always players available, even the ones who are not, can be.
Money talks, its whether we have the money and if we want to spend it.

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20 Jan 2014 18:18:49
So it is official we have exactly the same as Everton did this time last year, he is turning us in to last years Everton, this years would be better, thanks moysie.

Can anyone tell me what they have seen in Moyes to suggest or confirm he is the right man?

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Can anyone tell me why you claim to be a fan and yet don't back the manager. We all know we have one of the poorest squads we've had in recent times, so what did you expect? Moyes just to come in and know exactly which players will fit? In the end the players have got to take some of the blame, after all it is them who are playing the football, or would you feel more comfortable criticizing Moyes if he put his boots and played for us? I can understand everyone is frustrated but the guys had what 6 months and suddenly you want him to be the next Fergie? Whether you wanted him or not we have so let's back the team as real fans instead of whining and pretending to be fans.

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Well being Scottish that immediately made him fully qualified in the eyes of SAF.

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Sparky96. Who are you to say who is and who isn't a United supporter. I don't rate Moyes, never have. I don't think he has what it takes to get us back to the very top. That is what I think. I would be delighted if he was replaced with an elite manager. I might be right I might be wrong.
That doesn't make me any less of a supporter than you. Just one with a different opinion.

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I don't think the players or staff read these forums Sparky.

Having a little moan in private won't affect anything.

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I think "fans" are entitled to voice an opinion whether it be a player or a manager.

Why should they back the manager if they him to be inept at the job he is being paid handsomely to do.

His Cv shows no winning mentality so why exactly should we expect it to just happen if we give him time. "fans" are not sheep they can make up their own mind on whether they think someone is good enough for our club.

If Mickey mouse was manager would you just expect everyone to back him?

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Sparky

We had a squad that ran away with the title last season by 11 points, yes there were weaknesses but to go down as far as we have comes down to the manager. Moyes was the wrong choice and as a fan of Manchester United for 46 years I have seen wrong managers before but through it all I supported the club and the team not the manager. The manager is an employee of the club and his heart may already be elsewhere whilst ours are not.

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Red Man

The players are employees of the club too mate and if anything probably less fussed and responsible than the manager.

Chelsea spend 90 million so far this year after spending 200 million in two previous windows, City spent 90 in the summer on top of what they had spent in previous years, even Arsenal spent 5o mill and teams like Liverpool have had a year to realize the changes that their manager has brought, bought well and have a player, who you could argue on current form is leading next years Balon D'or.


We on the other hand did very little to strengthen an aging squad that has been patchwork for some time now.

Rooney, RVP have taken turns with injuries with other players being out for extended period of time. I read a stat that 50 percent of our goals and assists came from RVP and Rooney last year, so what we are seeing at the moment is not a surprise to me.

We are where we are because of the quality of our football that has been average for a few years, injuries, new manager and massive change after 26 years and other teams having improved.

That is one way to look at it or your way that it is always and only David Moyes Fault.

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Shaz, but you could argue injuries to key players is Moyes' fault. He certainly rushed Rooney and RvP back too early causing them to have recurrence of their injuries. There are strong rumours suggesting it was Moyes who baulked at the Herrera fee, telling the club it was too much. There are also rumours suggesting Moyes believed he could get Fellaini and Baines cheap. Although just rumours.

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What I love about Sparky's post is that within a few words of saying that they can't comprehend how any fan would not back the manager, they go on to label the squad as one of the poorest we've had in recent times. So real fans back the manager but criticise the squad? Glad that's sorted.

The reality is that the squad is pretty weak, but it isn't anywhere near as poor as it has been under Moyes. A few of the older players have declined and need to be replaced, and we have a few players who will never be good enough and will need to be moved on. However, the collective dip in form throughout the team has only one source: David Moyes and his staff. Last season we won the league at a canter, despite a number of below par performances. The squad isn't as strong as the European elite or City and Chelsea, but it is at least on par with the majority of teams above us.

It has only been half a season. But in that half season Moyes has failed to show any indication that he can get the team to perform better. It's not as if we have gone through a major rough patch, we win against teams in the bottom half and draw or lose against teams closer to the top. We still play the same run the wing and cross tactics despite them clearly failing, and we still ship goals constantly in defence.

This is a relatively poor squad for us, but Moyes is a relatively poor manager for a top side. People will keep on about giving him time, but when he keeps repeating the same mistakes week after week, and refuses to even attempt to change his failing tactics, how will more time help. A falling object just falls faster the more time you allow it to fall. Hopefully next summer we can do things properly and professionally.

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GCU

I don't doubt the lack of investment by the Glazers in recent years has had an impact, no doubt at all. I have expressed significant concern about their lack of spending on here many times. My problem is that instead of appointing the right manager to oversee the vital transition and spend the money well we appointed totally the wrong one. Even the Manchester Evening News comment tonight to Moyes was "stop dithering". I don't think I have known such directness to a United manager since Sexton. They wouldn't have said that about SAF or a top respected manager but then they wouldn't have to.

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Danny

Very good point

Tactically Moyes plays wide and gets crosses in. I saw stats the other day that we had the highest number of crosses and lead the number of unsuccessful crosses in the league. We are crossing without a recognised true centre forward, it is naive and isn't working.

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Syd

I know there are so many rumors but then again rvp has suffered from injuries in the past.

I think the media is having a field day with us and it is important as fans to keep our head together and not believe every rumour they put out.

I do agree we must have thought either the players were going to force the move or Everton would need to sell given how we bid on fellaini and baines and got it wrong. The summer window was a f… disaster.

If anyone is interested there is something happening at Juve with Guarin going there. Hoping this might have something to do with us and Vidal.

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Danny, not trying to be a smart arse but your quote "A falling object just falls faster the more time you allow it to fall" is actually incorrect. A falling object will accelerate until it reaches a point called terminal velocity at which point it will fall at a constant speed.
Like I said, I'm not trying to be smart, but my point is that we have fallen so far, so fast that surely we have reached that point. I don't think we can fall any further (or is that wishfull thinking?)
The big question is whether of not David Moyes can turn it around before we hit the ground. As you know, I think we need to allow him the time and the financial backing to sign the players he wants and see where we are then. But I do agree that he has shown nothing so far in his 7 months to make us think that he can turn things around.If he doesn't, it will be terminal for him (in football terms of course).

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What was most worrying about yesterday was that after deciding to push Januzaj furthest forward, the tactics remained focused on crossing from the wing.

We have the lowest percentage of attacks through the middle in the entire league too. I think it's a damning indictment of Moyes's limitations when he so steadfastly sticks to the same tactics and formation despite their obvious flaws.

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Redman

C'mon since when does what the MEN says has any relevance to our choice of manager.

That industry is so fickle, If honest dismiss 90 percent of what they write.

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Way to out physics me Betty, I'll get me coat.

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GCU

For those in Manchester it has always been quite respected as having close ties with the club. I remember the "cold Trafford" headline of the Sexton era was seen as the beginning of the end. To now openly suggest there is dithering with the manager adds to what we have already seen and surprised me to be honest.

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I think danny has hit it on the nail, I have said before that I thought rumours of Moyes being manager were a joke and I honestly could not believe what we've done there. And six months down the line, he has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING positive or to change my view about him.
We keep hearing this ridiculous argument that he was left a poor squad. That's a ridiculous statement, the squad was not the best, but as I've said before, we have seven extremely good players. Everton finished a million points behind us last season, so what's happened there then? A manager has gone in there, at the same time Moyes came to united, no excuses, no time to get used to the squad, no time to work out his best team. But nevertheless, Martinez sorted everton out and they have gone from being 20 points behind us to 7 points ahead of us at this stage of the season. How can this happen. Our team is the same with the addition of the brilliant januzaj, so how could we be so far behind.
I know this is hypothetical, if we had a proper manager with experience, we would be up there challenging for the title. Fergie found a way, Moyes is not in the same league as he has never won anything and doesn't know what it takes.
Back the manager if he's successful, all the workers backed the managers in the banks and loom what happened, just because he's a manager, it doesn't mean he has full backing, in order to have that, you have to EARN IT.

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I'm not really very smart mate. Just remember something about Charlie Sheen and a parachute :)
Oh, that sounds like some weird fetish doesn't it!

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20 Jan 2014 17:12:38
Iv sat back and watched for a while and I have finally put my finger on what I hate most about moyes, although I do want him to succeed. Every time I see him he looks a beaten man, often sat slouched in his seat of with his head in his hands. How on earth are the players we have gunna respect a man like that when they have been used to SAF for so long. Time has come for him to change and grow a pair so big he will need special trousers.

First of all we all know the unwritten rule at united is it is not over till it is over. How many come backs have we all seen happen with united and fergie time. Moyes should be stood constantly on the edge of the pitch shouting his head off at our players to attack and pressure more no matter the score or the time.

No matter now big the player is, if they are not playing to there best and giving 110% moyes should be giving them a huge bollocking and sub them for someone whom would I.e Valencia young and Nani have all been gash this season yet still get in ahead of zaha whom we all know would give his all for a chance to prove himself.

Also I believe we need to move for our targets now with bids that match valuations, it will show we are trying to bring people in and wanting to improve. If these bids fail we will either be told a new price indicating a deal can be done or if told to wait till the summer at least it will indicate to the player that we are serious about bringing them into our club.

No more small bids, no more saying 'no value in the market' we now need to spend like the big boys in order to show that we are the biggest boy on the playground and we will never give up without a fight because we are UNITED

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Sadly we no longer are the biggest in the playground and haven't been for quite a while.

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Precisely make a big statement, they might not want to sell but an extra few million normally changes minds, let's face it we need someone world class.
Too many changes at once in the summer normally proves disruptive.

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20 Jan 2014 16:43:48
Its weird since Moyes has moved to United we have gone downhill we have got no worse only the teams weaknesses have been shown more but yet Everton are playing Arsenal City United Chealsea as good as any top team Martinez as bad as it would have been at the time would have been a better choice than Moyes

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Really wanted to give Moyes a chance, but he couldn organise a bag chips in a chip shop! One style of play, run to corner flag and cross! Out of date about 20 years and the defence organisation is shocking! All the players in the world won't sort out the problems if the tactics are so pathetic!

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Shamlk, this is the style of play Ferguson's team played, especially since Ronaldo and Tevez left, so what is Moyes to do? He doesn't have a creative midfield.

In my opinion he should have done something about that in the summer, but he failed, or the club failed him.

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Januzaj and kagawa are pretty creative, so why not play them behind the striker like chelsea play Oscar and hazard? We have lots of creativity between these two and Rooney of course, so how is Moyes turning those three into a non creative outfit.
Answer, his tactics. He wants wingers and that does not lend itself to creativity in the middle as you're relying on attacks on the flanks.

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20 Jan 2014 15:58:57
Sydney, that is the problem, you just presume you have the right to be at the top. Unfortunately you will have to learn the way we had to learn, the hard way. Without the correct investment, you will have trouble reaching the top again. Your problem now lies with who is going to join you. I realise that you are still a top club, especially with your history, however, some players will not join because of the uncertainty surrounding you. Will Moyes still be there, will you get in the champs league, will the owners invest, and will Rooney still be there. There are too many if’s and buts. Your summer signing should have be picked by Moyes, but signed by Fergie. That way players would have joined. Instead, the targets you had wanted to buy their time waiting to see what happened. For the time being you have to sit back and watch Man City rule the English league. Don’t worry though, we will try and knock them of their perch, lol

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Red81, any club with a top notch academy and between £400-£500m revenue should be near the top. That goes without saying, well I thought it did. MU will not just wither away, not like you did and not because you want us to.

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Red81
just because your having middle of the road season for once doesn't mean it will last
i wouldn't worry to much about united we will be back soon enough

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In Syd's defense given the money we bring in through sponsorships, merchandise, fanbase, etc we SHOULD be at the top. Unfortunately the way the club is currently being run I worry how we're going to compete with Manchester City and Chelsea over the coming years given the kind of silly money that is being pumped into them.

I don't think we will have a problem with who is going to join us. In terms of managerial changes (or lack of them) we blow other teams out of the water. There may be uncertainty surrounding Moyes but Manchester United have shown that the right manager will be given time. Moyes may not be the right manager in this instance but you can guarantee if the club decide to get rid of him they will do everything in their power to make sure the next manager IS.

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Red81, I don't think MU have the right to win the league every year. That would be incredibly boring. I do believe we should be challenging at the top. Big clubs should always be challenging for titles. Especially when you have the academy and funds to make it happen, like I said above.

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What top notch academy is this. When was the last time you produced a first team player and I don't mean a player you bought of 16. and your revenue is swapped by debt. wake up and smell the coffee. The truth hurts pal. your owners have some tough choices to make. stick or twist, what will it be

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Red81, the same academy which is higher than you in the standings. I don't know about top notch, but our most recent established players are Cleverley and Welbeck. Evans, Fletcher, Scholes, Beckham, Giggs, Nevilles, Butt in the past. Ravel Morrison was produced by our academy and we have raised Januzaj and Pogba from 15-19 albeit Pogba and Ravel left.

In terms of debt, what does debt matter when the club are making profits of £150m after interest is paid?

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Red81

I would not gloat too much. It is funny old game and you are starting to leak and I expect it to continue. It is not how fast you get out of the gate mate but about how well you finish.

Come on back in 8 weeks time and I would be interested to see how you are doing:)

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God created. Your wrong, there are a few players mentioned from the youth set up, liverpool born and bread. The youth set up also includes players scouted and bought at a young age, as Sydney said. Most top flight teams work this way. Teams lower down recruit the young young players as this is how the survive. The top clubs then take the gamble on them often paying good money. Rafa worked hard in ensuring our youth team came good. But you probably didn't know that as you have your utd blinkers on. Also did none of you read my first post. Just because I am a liverpool fan, it's does not mean you just have to disagree. Try having an educated conversation. Redseven seems to be the only one capable

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The funniest comment was red81 saying they'll knock city off their perch. City have won an fa cup and a premiership. So I don't think they're on a perch, yet! But they might be after a few years and Liverpool will not be knocking them off their perch!

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20 Jan 2014 15:51:32
With Guarin going to Juve, I wonder if they might now be more receptive to a bid for Vidal. I can grasp at straws ;)

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Could we throw in Nani as a sweetener? Juve seem very interested in him.

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I would. People say we are short on numbers so should be looking for replacements if we let players go but I would quite happily allow Anderson and Nani to leave if it meant bringing in just 1 player of the quality of Vidal.

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We can hope but I heard that the deal is off.

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Deal is on, supposedly to be wrapped up tomm morning.

Reports saying it will open a move for Marchisio to United. Ed says we are only interested in Vidal.

Vidal and Coentrao would be some January window but will not get my hopes high. Throw in Gundogan and draxler/rues and a top quality CB in the summer and we will look a very different and quite scary.

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{Ed004's Note - I agree I can't see why Moyes doesn't atleast move for Garay (who is available apparently), Coentrao and maybe Vidal if that's possible. That means we could bed 2-3 in at once instead of massive changes in the summer, Anderson gone, Nani involved in swap and give Buttner a loan and space is freed up}

Straight swap with young? Haha.

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20 Jan 2014 15:42:54
Fredy guarin possible swap to juventus with vucinic goign the otherway, Would this free a move for vidal to leave juventus in this window?

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20 Jan 2014 15:28:58
ngiak is close to confirming his own conspiracy theory
If the 2 players are not signed by the end of the January window
It may just mean that the unintelligent owners are regretting signing moyes as the manager
And do not want to waste money on him
He either sells to buy and qualify for the champions league
Or he will be out soon with another high profile manager
Is he just the stop gap?
Mr nomidfield has hit the nail on the head ngiak bethinks
It's a total lack of knowledge of the ethos of this great club and the total lack of tactical and attacking nous that has been mr moyes downfall
He has single handedly brought down the confidence and the pride and the enthusiasm of a powerful and strong willed team
That on paper should be stronger this season with the emergence of januzaj and Rooney and fletcher and Felliaini
Instead of changing the whole team as many suggest
Why not just remove the chief culprit ngiak suggests!
gan

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I agree with you both!

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So basically all bs as suspected. Keep trying eventually if you say stuff enough times you will get one right :)

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Rooney can and has played better under Moyes, Januzaj like you say is full of confidence and is thriving under Moyes, Valencia is playing better than he did last season. Some players can achieve a better standard so why can't all of them? The problem is with half the players not putting in as much effort as they would of under SAF, SAF had a fear factor which ensured players would not come off the pitch without giving 110%.

We need new, hungry, more skilled players to come in and take over from the average and oldies. Moyes isn't the problem with our performances this season.

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Today is World Penguin Awareness Days, apparently! ngiak, were you aware of this?

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Oswald

"Moyes isn't the problem"

Sorry but I disagree. I think there have been a few issues not least that the job is too big for him. However there are a couple of points
1) Is Moyes an inspirational leader driving his team on to perform above the sum of its parts? Clearly not!
SAF, Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, Anchelotti and others have demonstrated that ability. SAF took the same players miles beyond where Moyes has taken us this season. Moyes body language on the bench yesterday when we were three down was poor almost acceptance of where we were. Sat looking confused talking to Phil Neville instead of out there demanding on the touchline, visibly demanding.
2) I go back to his "need 5 or 6 world class players" comment at the beginning of the season. How did he expect that to motivate the team he had? Go out and play your heart out for me but half of you don't meet what I am looking for. A huge demotivating factor, should have been on a report to the owners in private but not said in public and certainly not to a bunch of players you are trying to get onside and impress.
At the start of the season we needed two or three now we need half a team and Moyes has brought this level of performance on himself

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It was a stupid statement to make anyway, how on earth is a team going to buy 5 or 6 'world class' players in a window or two windows. Some top teams only have two or three truly world class players.
And as you say, it is an insulting statement to make to a team that has just won the league. By 11 points.
As motivation goes that was up there with the thickest statement he could have uttered.

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Only point I disagree on is Pep managing to get either Barcelona or Bayern to perform to a level greater than all parts. Have you added uo the sum total of those individuals? Virtually impossible to improve on either.

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Ben

What are your thoughts on Barcelona since Pep left?

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20 Jan 2014 15:00:17
Hi guys, it's my first real post in a while.

I wanted to talk a little about transfers, not in any specific window just in general.

Now the likelihood is that Moyes WILL be backed but not with any of this £200M nonsense. Maybe £70-£80M.

we have to consider we need several players, £70-80M will tend to get you 2 or maybe 3.

for argument sake let's assume things continue as they are and we don't make the top 4.

That puts the majority of 'world class' players out of our reach for the most part. we might be able to tempt 1 or 2 but they might not be the sort of player we're after.

IMO that leaves us with 2 options, go the Liverpool route and sign players on the up like Luiz Suarez, Fernando Torres, etc. and hope we can continue to help them develop.

The other option is to sign the players who may not be the best in their position but together they could form a solid 'team': - remember that word, United have never been about individuals, for ever Ronaldo we've had a Wes Brown or Darren Fletcher.

The latter route is the one I believe we should look to take. I'm not saying we can't sign players with World class potential, I simply mean signing 1 or 2 and then looking at building a formidable unit is the way to go, especially with our financial constraints.

So, what is it that we need?

We need a LB that can operate well in attack but also take responsibility for their defensive duties, their aren't tons of this sort of player, and remember we're operating on a smallish budget. so we're looking at £15M Max.

Coentrao sems to be the choice currently, and he'll be a definite upgrade at a agreeable price and reasonable wages. So Coentrao would be my choice.

Coentrao - £12M


Next, we need a CB, with Rio and Vidic heading out the door I believe we need an older, experienced CB and then trust Michael Keane to step up into the First team squad.

Center Halves tend to be pretty expensive when shopping abroad, but we don't need anything flashy, we just need a defender who will do his job even if he is 27/28.

Now, a lot of people won't agree with me but somebody like Phil Jagielka is what we need, he won't start every game, he'll simply be a solid addition to the team. The chances of Everton selling though are slim to 0. so who else can we target?

My personal choice would be Jose Manuel Flores at Swansea. Here's my reasoning, he's a solid defender and just gets on with his job. and when you consider a CB isn't our main priority the fee involved should be attractive for us. I think for around £6M we could bag him.

Jose Manuel Flores - £6M.

RB. I love Rafael as much as everybody else but it's clear he needs some form of competition. 2 choices arise quickly, Seamus Coleman; but I don't see Everton wanting to sell their star RB. and arguably their best player this season.

Instead of Coleman I would opt for Matthew Lowton and Villa, he'll be cheap, he's young, he has potential and he'll provide a good challenge for Rafael, not to mention he's quite good at both the Attacking and defensive aspects of his game.

Matthew Lowton -£8M

The dreaded midfield, there are various arguments over who and what we need, I trust in Fellaini and Fletcher to get the dirty work done between them, I also trust in Carrick to move the ball around deep.

What I feel we need is a Box to Box, Yaya Toure, Paul Pogba, type player. These types of player do not come cheap, and the ones that do tend to have a few issues.

I believe our man is Mousa Dembele, I think he's doable for around £12-14M (£13M). Not a lot of people are overly excited by him but I believe he's a real gem of a player who just needs the freedom to move up and down instead of being consigned to an area of the field like he is at Tottenham.

The second player I believe we need is a nippy little workhorse with technical ability, not a player who will move like a box to box midfielder but the type of CM who will chase the ball down, pressure the opponent and then look to burst forward when getting the ball back.

I'm struggling to find this type of player at a low fee, so I started looking within our own ranks, and I actually think this is Wayne Rooneys Role, okay so you may be taking away some of his goal scoring attributes, but I see United progressing with a 4-3-3. Lingard/Januzaj wide left, Valencia wide right, and I'll come to the forwards in a minute.

Therefore I believe we should be doing all that we can to sign Rooney on a big deal (right now we need him more than he needs us) for the next 5 years, keep Powell has his understudy and a smooth transition may well take place.

My choices;

Rooney - £0M
Dembele - £13M

A left sided player?

Last season I would have been screaming for a Di Maria, Reus, etc. but honestly I think I'm one of the few that doesn't see a problem with our left flank. Nani and young will hopefully be off, however we have young Januzaj stepping up to the plate and I believe Lingard will also follow and become a first team regular at United. those 2, operating from the Left along with the possibility of Kagawa is more than enough for United.

If, we do need a left sided midfielder I would seriously look at Adam Lallana, I've followed his closely ever since he scored 11 (or something) goals in League 1. he's England best left winger, he won't cost the earth and his versatility means he can play left or right.

Adam Lallana - £16M


With the addition of Lallana I don't see any real need for another Right midfielder. Januzaj, Kagawa, Valencia and Lallana can all player there.

The forwards, I suspect RVP to be off or on the injury table a lot by next season, Hernandez is likely off and I still wouldn't put my house of Welbeck getting into double figures.

We've already discussed how Rooney should play CM next season, so we're looking at a bit of spending to get a couple of forwards signed in the summer.

This is where I think we need to sign proven quality, we can't 'hope' to score, we need to score goals. looking at the attacking talent we have we need to someone who can hold the ball up well but also find the net. a Dzeko if you will. but obviously not him.

We need 2 forwards to compete in my opinion, Rooney can play forward if needed, Welbeck will still be here and hopefully Will Keane will make the grade.

firstly, I believe we should look at the following;

Loic Remy - He'll be the cheaper option, and may surprise many people, signing for around £10M (seeing as QPR may need him off their books). his movement is brilliant and without sounding a little rash he reminds me a lot of Thierry Henry in his play style.

The second choice is Christian Benteke, people talk about Lukaku being a lot of like Drogba but I honestly believe Benteke is the closest thing to Drogba in world football, he's not scoring 50 goals a season but look at the midfield that's supplying him, hardly creative is it.

I think benteke would cost close of £18M.

so that would mean the forward like would cost around £30M.

Remy - £10M
Benteke - £18M

All together that's a spend of; £83M (give or take).

and although it's not a super excited, star studded window I actually believe we would challenge on all fronts.

a first XI; DDG - Raf, Jones, Evans, Coentrao - Carrick/fellaini, Dembele, Rooney - Valencia, Januzaj - Remy/Benteke.

Its powerful, hardworking, balanced and very tough to break down.

Anyway, That'll do for the day!

I'll try and get more posts in.

I hope all of the editors and posters are well and I hope you've all had a good Xmas and New year.

Would you mind posting this in the banter please Ed?

All the best.

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Good to see you and your posts back Moon! Sensible and thought provoking again! Some fresh faces in and around the squad 'moyes' players. Those players would improve us but I don't think they take us back to the fergie.years.but we would compete. Have a good 2014 moon

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Moonio mate I personally am a big fan of Benteke and I do like the idea of Rooney dropping into the midfield(if he stays and signs a new contract).

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Nice post Moon and a nice break from the suicidals and dreamers. Personally, I think the Glazers will give Moyes about £70m to spend, as you say, but I think they will allow him to reinvest the money that comes in for Anderson, Nani, Young, Rooney etc. Therefore, I would guess a total budget of approximately £125m to rebuild the first team this coming summer.

I would agree with Coentrao for about £12m as a less expensive option. Personally I would get Garay now for £17m, or whatever the fee is supposed to be, rather than Flores. I don't think we need a RB so won't waste any money there.

CM is where I would spend a good chunk as it is such an important position and we are so weak. Dembele I could accept for £13-15m, definitely, but I don't see Rooney here next season, I think his mind is made up, just my personal opinion. I would do everything possible for Vidal, he would be unbelievable for us but I know it would be hugely difficult and could cost £40m+ but I would make him my major summer signing.

With, hopefully, Nani and Young on the way out, I would love to get Reus but can't see it happening. Therefore, I would go for DiMaria at about £22m. If Rooney does go but Hernandez stays, we would need one more attacker and I would take Benteke as you suggest for the £18m.

That would take the full £125m budget.

I think a best 1st eleven in a 4321 of DDG, Rafael Jones Garay Coentrao, Fellaini Dembele Vidal, Januzaj DiMaria, RVP/Benteke would be good enough to challenge while not costing the earth. It would allow Rafael and Coentrao to get down the line as the cover in CM would be very strong.

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Think you will need to keep thinking of another nippy little workhorse with technical ability instead of rooney. Can you imagine contract talks. "So gaffer, any plans to strengthen the team? Yes Wayne, we're getting Lowton, Flores, Dembele, Remy and Benteke, and oh yeah i'm sticking you CM. In fairness I appreciate you're just thinking outside the box but apart from Coentrao and possibly Lallana you have listed a host of squad players who would in no way have us challenging on all fronts. We need top top players Vidal, Modric, Herrera, Reus, etc if we are to compete with City and Chelsea etc. I don't think missing out on champions league this season will have as big a impact on the calibre of players we can get as some think.

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Karl Marx & Mumbai Boy.

Thanks guys!

I don't see us being anywhere near the 08 & 99 squads, no matter who we sign, it takes a certain chemistry and passion to build a side like that and you need to do more than sign some worldies.

I'm trying to think on a Moyes level, looking at very good players with traits that moyes likes and affordability.

Rooney dropping into midfield will work I think, providing he the most advanced of a midfield trio, in a 2 man I think he'll struggle.

The First XI I posted, to me, look like a big, strong and technical side. not many sides can boast strength and technique, with the exception of maybe City, Bayern and possibly Real.

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I agree with much of what you said Moon.

I think Rafael would benefit from an older right back to compete against as he (especially of late) has shown he can still be rash in his decision making.

Sticking with young players I would prefer Santon to Lowton as he is premier league tested, can operate just as well on the right back position as he can left back which would provide a sense of cover for both flanks.

Rooney has stated his preferred position is up top and I think it was a factor in why he has thrown a strop over the last summer as he wasn't being played in his favored position.
I would like to see him in this position but recently (over the past 2 seasons) he seems to dwell on the ball and this leads him to be caught out, which leads to a lose of possession. Would rather Vidal :P

Dembele is a good and would provide good strong and direct running to our midfield, he can pick a pass to. I don't think he is properly utilized at Spurs.

Lallana is a good player but I think in the United mold he would be just another Squad player. He has off days just like every other winger but he is quite good. Sticking with wide players I think someone who can cut in as well as go down the touch line is needed. Recently we have had very one dimensional wingers who will do one or the other (Valencia Down the line and Young cutting in), Xherdan Shaqiri would be my choice, Fast tricky and can operate on both wings,
Or Marco Reus.

Up Front while I agree with Benteke, Its been a while since we had a strong target man up front and Benteke brings a lot of power but would it put is in a position where we resort to constant route one football?
Benteke or Mario Mandzukic as a strong striker up front would be nice.

Remy is a no no for me, Very inconsistent at times and from what I remember is a bit of a light weight when it comes to injuries.
I can't think of any other striker i'd rather have right now rather than a fully fit RVP.

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I quite like Bony, watched him against City and thought he had everything. In a top side he would be prolific.

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Brendan, I agree with everything you said their tbh mate.

I to think Rooney will be off, I'm just hoping he isn't. Like I said we need him way more than he needs us right now.

Vidal, Reus, etc. would all be great I'm just not so sure whether we can afford them or not.

Chippy,

I'm not so sure we've met!

So It's nice to meet you :).

Well, Dembele, Remy and Benteke are exceptionally good talents and imo they would walk into most sides.

Lowton has just as much potential at RB as shaw does at LB and Flores is a decent CB.

This players aren't going to turn us into the biggest side in the world but they will help us compete on all levels.

I couldn't see anybody breaking down a team with HUGE players like Benteke, Fellaini, Dembele, Fletcher, etc. in.

masses of pace in Rooney, Dembele, Valencia, Lingard, Januzaj, Remy.

and technical ability in Carrick, rooney, kagawa, dembele, januzaj, lingard, Benteke & remy.

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Sydney

Hate Bony and think he is so slow and a little lazy with his movement if there is such a thing too stocky.

Not fast enough feet for me mate. I Would prefer Mirales or remy from Newcastle.

Might as well keep Bambi if we are looking at Bony, both good for teams mid table.

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Moon, while I do agree with most o what you've said, we still don't see eye to eye on a couple of things>

First one is the central defense role. I'd much rather Ashley Williams if we are to get someone from Swansea.

Left back, agreed.

Right back, I honestly see Vermijl as Rafael's understudy for next season.

I also don't think we really need a right wingers, with Januzaj, imo, more suited to the role of inverted winger than an out and out winger ( run and cross ) at this moment intime.

We might need a left winger, but it all depends on Zaha's situation. If he is not seen as someone with a future at the club, than Draxler is a must ( Reus would also be an interesting acquisition to say the east but you know ).

Id rather have inverted wingers who are more suited to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 than out and out wingers.

As for the central midfield, we currently have 3 ( arguably ) who are good enough to be here. Fletcher does have the pedigree and seems over his problems. Carrick, for at least one more season and Fellaini who will come good, despite not being the most gifted of footballers.

We have Fletcher, Fellaini and even Jones as the box to box midfielders or bruisers, but only Carrick as the pace setter. Therefore i'd much rather have Gundogan ( if fit ) than Vidal. Although the opportunity to see both of them in our midfield is one that gives me " needs " lol

As for the striker, I don't think we'd need one unless Rooney and/or Kagawa are sold ( in which case we'd need a striker and a number 10 ).
With Will Keane and more importantly Bebe progressing well ( Henriquez )I don't see the need for one.

All in all, Williams, Coentrao, Gundogan and Draxler would cost about 85 million pounds, and we'd have 3 world class players in our hands.

Now if we are to be reasonable, we might not be able to get some of them without champions league football.

Gundogan has the likes of Madrid on his tail, so Banega, Rakitic, Allan from Udinese, Witsel, Cabaye ( who seems to be off to PSG ) are realistic options who might be tempted even without immediate champions league appearances.

As for Draxler, who is said to be interested in an Arsenal move, and Reus being one of the best players in the world, Griezmann could be on option, but I'm not a huge fan of left footed left wingers, and he seems more suited to a more forward role than a winger in a 4-2-3-1.

Lingard would be a decent bet, as would hopefully Zaha but there isn't much quality on the market

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The only player I would take out of all those is Coentrao.

Moon, why do you always suggest we sign average players? Lowton? Really? Flores? Remy?

Deary me.

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GAGUS.

Average players?

Lowton is just as good as Rafael and has just as much potential.

Flores is a steady defender, we don't need a first choice CB, unless of course you want Jones to be kept in midfield? Jones and Evans should be our partnership with Flores, Smalling and Keane playing squad roles.

Remy wouldn't look out of place at Barcelona, Real Madrid or Bayern. his pace, control and finishing is some of the best I've seen in a long time.

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Cheers Moon. To be honest I see where you're coming from with your assessment of a lot of them players especially the comparison between Remy and Henry. Some of his goals this season the way he strikes a ball in his stride has been very henry esque. And Dembele I would take no problem as a replacement in the squad for Anderson/Cleverly/Giggs, but reckon Spurs would fleece us on him. I just reckon we need better than that. Santon as somone above suggested is a player I like and would provide cover for both full backs and I reckon would be 1st choice fairly quickly judging by Rafael's performances this season. If the figure you mentioned 70-80 million turns out to be correct then with a few sales (Nani, Young, Anderson) i'd rather we just bought 2/3 world class players instead of just packing out the squad. The longer we are away from the top the harder it will be to get back there. Enjoyed your post though and a change from the usual names.

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20 Jan 2014 14:52:36
Was just having a thought yesterday on how we came about with Moyes as manager. What credentials did he have above Hughes, Robson, Keane, Bruce etc who have all managed premier league clubs? Someone tell me the difference please.

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Hughes - Failed at almost all the clubs inspite of being given money

Keane - Got his team relegated

Bruce - Got his team relegated

Robson - didn't have as much managerial experience in the PL as Moyes


I am not the biggest fan of Moyes but let's not come up with senseless posts just for the heck of it.

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None of them are Scottish!

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There all on the one level boys only Moyes had a good time at everton

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It was a serious post, I don't think a senseless one. So the credentials are that he deserves the job because Moyes hasn't been in charge of a relegated club? We are setting the bar low.

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Supasub sorry mate didn't mean to be rude.

I just wanted to point out that the names you mentioned do not have better records than Moyes.


So at the start of the season if I was asked to choose anyone from these I would go with Moyes.

(He isn't my first choice but among these options yes he is)

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No probs, it was a bit I a devils advocate question. If it were out of those is pick Moyes too but my point was that he hasn't really done a great deal more than the others.

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20 Jan 2014 14:20:53
Gooner in peace- I appreciate this may not be a good time, but I thought just for a bit of light hearted relief and as a distraction.

Someone posted this on the arsenal page for fun (just slightly modified).

So here it is:

If you could choose one player from your past to help you right now, who would it be?

(for what it's worth I would go for Roy Keane- great leader, determination, etc. )

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Bryan Robson for me

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Eric Cantona, for sure.

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Good post by the way LG1

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It can only be Keane.legend

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Keano

No question

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Roy keane. Our days of getting bullied and over run in the middle would be over. love to see him sort out yaya toure

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Duncan Edwards for me, going off the little I have seen and the extensive info I was given by my late grandad and my best mate growing ups late grandad. Would have been a legend and Bobby Moore would never have got to lift the World Cup for England if Duncan hadn't been so tragically taken.

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Ronaldo without a question.

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20 Jan 2014 16:56:41
Keano for sure! Not only would he sort the midfield out he would let everyone else know when their playing shi*e or do something wrong! Another Keane would be like signing 3 world class players for the benefits to the team!

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Ronaldo for me as he can pretty much win games on his own but can see why people would go for Keane or Robson given what we're lacking atm.

I'm old enough to have picked Ronaldo over anyone from the Robson era, but young enough and unfortunate enough not to have been able to consider Edwards, Best or Charlton.

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For ability and entertainment, Ronaldo. For drive and leadership Keane. But, I would have to say Cantona. The man had an aura about him that gave everyone at the club a lift, and in many ways he was the catalyst for our subsequent success. At the moment our team is on the floor confidence wise, and I think is at the root of our problems. Cantona would give everyone that lift and boost in confidence, and the rest would follow.

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Bebe.


I'll get me coat.

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Ronaldo. Followed closely by Keane, then Eric, then Robson, then 22-29 yr old Scholes. But it's an extremely close call between all 5 TBH

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POGBA!!!

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Patzi

I am with you, I will take all 5 LOL

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Eric Cantona . Simple

Deeps.

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Cantona as he will galvanise the team and ignore what drivel Moyes is preaching.

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20 Jan 2014 14:27:01
I think DM likes to tell a few porkies. "we know we need some new players but we won't panic buy"

Can someone please tell me what Fellaini was?

I would guess at a £27m panic buy. If that muppet Ed Woodward can justify £27m as value for money for the wig, then surely bid's in the region of £35-£45m for top quality proven midfielders is acceptable.

However, there are cheaper options always knocking about, Luiz Gustavo, went for around £10m, Strootman £17m, that's the same amount of money as for the wig, for one deep lying cm and one box to box, who would have improved the team.

Like a lot of people on here, I pay for 6 season tickets at OT year in year out, all I want is to be entertained for my money. I'm not ar**d about winning the league every year, I like walking away thinking 'what a match that was'

In the past the next game couldn't come quick enough, the crowd were always up for it, now, you can sense the nerves, the singha is going flat, the pies are tasting crap and some people are using their scarves to hang off the door frame of the toilets.

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Fellaini was NOT a panic buy. Moyes was chasing him the whole way through the transfer window. The only reason it went through at the last minute is because we thought we could get him for less than £22m. As it happened we were wrong.

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I accept your point on us pursuing him throughout the summer sticking in stupid joint bids for him and Baines, but, it was obvious that we did not value him at £27m or even at his reported £23.5m release clause (which had expired) therefore instead of walking away, we panicked and coughed up the cash as we had run out of time to pursue other targets.

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City bought a lot of players in the previous summer for probably too much. It generally happen when you don't do your main business early and leave it to last day. Just like everything it comes down to how motivated the buyer is and how smart the seller is. Berbatov rings a bell if I may say.

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I honestly believe that we intended on signing him no matter what and were just waiting for Everton to crack and settle for one of our stupid offers. The fact that they didn't is what lead us to pay the extra money.

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Moyes just wanted half the Everton team! Fellani was a terrible buy, Coleman or Baines, or Jags but Fellani? Come on! withe the quality of years gone by, Keane, Ince, Robson, Scholes, 27 million of a donkey like fellani?? Unbelievable! And it took him all summer to get him! LOL Please god Fergie can have some influence in the signing of players this year, until he learns how to manage a massive club!

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Shamlik

Baines is the best left back in the league and given how many goals we are conceding from Evra's side he would have made a massive difference.

Coleman at the moment is by far the better player than rafael in terms of consistency, so I would have no complaints if we had them.

Kind of arrogant to dismiss players because they play for a smaller club.

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I am very confident that you will all eat your words about Fellaini. He came to us after the season had started with the entire expectations of the transfer window put on him. He had no pre season and time to settle in with us, and walked straight into a minefield. Give the guy some time to settle and get properly fit, add in some new players and a settled team and he will be a valuable player for us.

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Redseven is spot on. The reason Moyes is now despised by so many Evertonians is because of the way he disrespected his former employers by pursuing Baines and Fellaini with insulting, derisory offers throughout the summer. He then tried the "I think that EFC are holding back their careers" tactic as a means of unsettling them both.
Fellaini was the only one to crack, submitting a written transfer request with only a few hours to go. He cost you a further 4 million or so because your club were greedy and thought Everton would accept a lower offer was his get out clause had expired in July.

I hope this hasn't offended anyone on this site, but I thought it only right to defend redseven who is factually correct.
By the way, please do not consider coming in for Ross Berklay or Seamus Coleman. Neither is for sale and we don't want a repeat of last summer which has soured relations between the two clubs.

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Imo we would have been better off buying McCarthy for £ 13 million rather than buying Fellaini for over twice that .
We would then have had £ 14 million to spend on a cb or lb

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Daveyboy, I posted this a few days ago, and agree with you in principle that we tried, and failed, to land Fellaini on the cheap. But it was Ed Woodward and the "money men" who made the offers. When will people come to understand that football managers do not do the negotiations for players. If that is the reason why so many Everton fan despise David Moyes, as you put it, then they need to find a more valid reason for their feelings.
Oh, and Fellaini didn't crack, as you call it. He merely wanted to push the deal through because he wanted to play for a bigger club, the same reason as Roberto Martinez went to yourselves.

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Betty - Moyes does not deal with the money but if Fellaini and Fabregas were the only two players Moyes could come up with to improve our midfield there is something wrong there.

For starters; Fellaini was and is not what we need. The fact that he was earmarked at all is bad enough. The fact that far better players were ignored because Moyes was adamant that Fellaini was the answer to all of our problems is unforgivable.

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Redseven, but that was not the point of my post ( which was basically agreeing with your!). The point was that Moyes doesn't do the nagotiations. As for the rest of your post, are you sure he only earmarked Fellaini and Fabregas? Herrera? DeRossi? Khedira? Bale? There are probably more but the truth is we don't KNOW who Moyes wanted in the summer. Most of it is fed to us by the media, buy I can almost guarantee you that there will be players that we are interested in that we, nor the madia know about.

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Betty - He may well have earmarked more than three players. I'm not sure there has been any real confirmation of any of the players you mentioned apart from Herrera - but that (as well as all of the rumours) came at the eleventh hour.

If he'd got his head screwed on he would have questioned whether the bids for Cesc and the joint bid for Fellaini and Baines (which was ridiculous) were ever likely to succeed. He worked at Everton for some time and should have known how much it would take to pry the players away if it was at all possible.

He could have either insisted on the board paying that or moved on to other targets. At the very least we would have gotten the Coentrao deal through on time that way.

He could have also questioned whether it would be worth bringing Fellaini in on deadline day for a few million saved (which was all we were ever likely to save by allowing his clause to lapse) or having him in a month earlier in order to have more time to acclimatise to life at the club.

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Problem is he bought fellaini but by Moyes s own admission, he wanted to play him in a date naive midfield roll, while fellaini excelled at everton when he played a more forward roll. So what was the thinking behind that.
I know we've not seen a lot of fellaini, but he didn't seem too comfortable as a defensive midfielder.

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20 Jan 2014 14:05:33
So are we persisting with Moyes to be sacked? Now people are even quiting relibable sources that he is ready for the chop.

Please guys come on, if we get rid of him now, it puts us in a far worse position. You have to ask yourself, why was Moyes hired, what creditials does he offer? Somebody said that Guardiola was the chosen one but he turned it down, WHY? Did he realise that it was an impossible task taking over from sir Alex and then rebuilding what is a very average squad and first 11. Was he worried that he could not take an aging team and turn them into a new young unstoppable force.

Moyes was chosen, and Moyes was chosen for a reason, to implement change and create his own vision, as we have seen with Everton.
You have to remember, management is not a matter of purchasing the best players and telling them how to play. Its about implementing a structure, changing a clubs ethos to how you believe it should be and how it will acheive its true potential. Ferguson was allowed to do it. At least give Moyes a Yardstick to measure himself too. He's not had one full season yet and already we judge him as a failure?

No short-term fixes, no knee jerk reactions, no hypatheticals. He is the manager and he deserves our support. Have we ever thought that maybe it is not his fault but powers higher above. How do we know other managers where approached but turned it down because they saw it damaging to their C.V. Moyes took it on, knowing full well if he fails here he will seriously struggle to find another job after it.

What once was the Glazers fault is all of a sudden, Moyes' is fault!

aaallj5

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I said in summer moyes wouldn't of been my choice, but like a new player you would have to give him time to adapt and we would have to see if he could make the step up.
I think he will be given 2 years.
I'm not a moyes supporter and for me the jury is still out but I would have to say this United team is not as good as some think we won a poor league last with a great manager and rvp papering over the cracks. But some of the football we played last year was poor, would we of won the league last year with city and co in this form?
Also in the summer the club never bought the players he wanted?
Our record in the transfer market over the last few years has resulted in a team with not enough real quality players

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What once was the Glazers fault is all of a sudden, Moyes' is fault!

aaallj5

I like that line, mate.

Moyes has become the fall guy for the owners' lack of investment in key areas. Would someone like Mourinho or Klopp have put up with this? No chance, they'd have demanded proof that the owners would back them financially and if they weren't, they'd speak their minds and/or leave the club.

What the owners have in Moyes is a manager who perhaps they felt would be malleable. He'll never get a bigger job offer in his life, so he won't rock the boat and risk being sacked. He's taking the flak for the lack of quality in the team and it's nothing to do with him.

If he fails terribly, the owners can get rid of him, and the compensation he gets will undoubtedly come with a clause that prevents him from speaking out about the ownership and finances of the club.

If he succeeds modestly, the owners can point to it being a long-term project and, as this team won the league last year, can deflect attention away from new players and onto a malleable manager who 'is finding his feet' and won't say a word in retaliation.

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I'm not too keen on the idea of following the vision of a man who seems blind to basic logic. Why do we want him to change our club's ethos? We are winners. He is not. Why do we want him to tell our players how to play? He plays negative and boring football.

Here are two scenarios;

1. We need players - whether they be world class or just 'good' players to keep us going while we are rebuilding. Moyes is reluctant/scared to sign players. If Moyes left today and we got SAF or Heynckes in on an interim basis by Friday they'd have a week to bring in players. It's not a lot of time but I guarantee they would sign players. Those players would help us get top 4 this season. That would make signing big name players in the summer a lot easier for whoever took the job on full time.

2. We need players - whether they be world class or just 'good' players to keep us going while we are rebuilding. Moyes is reluctant/scared to sign players. Moyes stays and we finish January with the same squad we have now. We finished 6th (City, Chelski, Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, United). That would make signing big name players in the summer a lot more difficult for whoever takes the job from Moyes (because the Glazers will not tolerate us finishing 6th).

Which would you prefer?

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Jred, I'm not stalking you, but yet again I find myself in complete agreement with your post. You save me a lot of typing :)

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Agree jred, but the fall has been so dramatic that you have to ask yourself, how did we go from winning the league by 11 points to this?
I think I read that we are 20 points behind where we were at this stage last season. OK, so city, chelsea and arsenal have improved, but are we really 20 points worse than we were last year?
We lost pathetically against west brom, everton, and Newcastle. We were holding out against the might of Cardiff and Southampton and on both occasions we lost our lead. This team is better than that, we might not have the best team in our history, but we have seven excellent players and they should be performing better.
More worrying, is the fact we keep conceding silly goals, and especially from set pieces. This shows a lack of organisation on the practice ground and on the pitch. Manager is partly at fault for that. He has mentioned it on numerous occasions but has done nothing about it.

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20 Jan 2014 13:55:30
Lots of talk about our need for a new left back and rightly so but I feel we also need a new right back .

Rafael is far too injury prone and also too rash when he is playing . The tackle yesterday towards the end is the kind of thing he does far too often and makes him a liability.

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He's certainly taken a step backwards in terms of his performances this season. I still think it's a little bit early to be calling for him to be replaced though.

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When you have fullbacks like Ev and Raf you need solid CB's and midfielders. We have a couple RB's in Varela and Janko. Both highly regarded, but not ready to make the step up according to the management.

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20 Jan 2014 14:15:32
Maybe but Evra, Rio and Vidic all know their leaving so are the bigger priority.

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Under Moyes reign we have been linked with Stephen Lichtsteiner of Juve but I don't think a right back is of concern. Once the midfield is sorted a new central defender comes in Rafael will be fine again.

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I honestly believe the only position that we don't need replacing is GK, I feel sorry for De Gea IMO he is the best keeper in the league but because the midfield is SO SO BAD we have no chance against any team in the top half of the table.

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20 Jan 2014 13:20:15
I can't understand how Blackett could perform any worse than Evra.

I mean with Evra 2 mistakes per game is a guarantee and maybe Blackett might make 3 mistakes but at least there's hope of a better tomorrow as this will be a learning vurve for him.

Buttner sails in the same boat as Evra.

I would single out Evra as the single most disappointing player for us this season.

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Smalling, Buttner, Cleverley, Fellaini, Fabio, Anderson, Nani and Young have been worse.

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Evra has been a defensive issue for years now, great man, but no longer the player he once was defensively at least. Still, it isn't his fault he is still being selected. It's the board's fault for continuously missing out on his replacement for the past two years.

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Evra hasn't been the worst player on the park but he's in the top 3. So many goals come from down his side and teams know that that is the better side to attack. His legs of gone and that is enough for him to be replaced regardless of the influence he has in the dressing room.

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It could all of been so different if we had moved a bit quicker for Jordi Alba before Barca got interested - almost had him, something that is all too often associated with us.

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20 Jan 2014 12:58:55
Hi, I am a Newcastle fan and was on asking if you guys were after Cabaye? I got shouted down and people were saying he is not good enough for you. So I can I asked the same question, would you take Cabaye now?

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As a short term-fix; but not for anywhere near £20m. £12m maybe.

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I would and if you can appreciate the humor it has been a while since a united Midfielder actually scored a goal from outside the box and just that part of Cabaye's game is worth the admission :)

I would also take Dembele from Spurs but then again not many like him here.

Both very good internationals and underrated.

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Jimmy

You just have to get used to the snobbery on here mate. If Cabaye were a Real squad player they would all be quoting him as a top signing etc yet just because he plays with you he is not. They clearly know better than the French national boss, Pardrew, wenger, barca and Blanc who(now with the riches to buy any midfielder in the world) wants him. He doesn't have to be the best in the worl but fit us and do a job of which he has proven in the league and internationally as well as bring a different dimension to our game that's missing. For 20m that's allot of positives in any bodies book.

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Cabaye had his worst season last year operating a deep player, much like Carrick.

this year he's very much in the number 10 role and excelling.

However, IF we signed him, he'd play deeper for us and I honestly don't rate him as a deeper player.

Further forward he's very good, but he's not a top playmaker, especially when you value him at £20M and players like Santi Cazorla were sold for around £10M.

Great stop gap IF we're going to play him further forward, I just think we're looking for somebody a little more mobile who can operate in both a deep and advanced role well.

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Moon cabaye had his worst season as he was injured for three plus months up to Xmas and pardew openly admitted he brought him back far to early but even though he did that he still turned Newcastle from facing a relegation fight to safety. Ask any Newcastle fan and they will tell you his return changed their team completely.

And again after the summer this season and missing out on the arsenal move he sucked it up and is playing like he is. Many players should take a leaf out of his book. Pardew cannot speak more highly of him and that says allot IMO

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I'd take Cabaye for less than £20million, fine player.

However, it's a worrying trend at the moment. Guys like Cabaye and Dembele are 'not what we need', 'over-rated', 'not United quality'.

But world-class players are simply out of our price range. We've proven that with derisory bids for Fabregas and refusing to meet the buy-out clause of Herrera.

So where does that leave us? Do we just never buy a midfielder again?

Best bet, is that we aim for £8-10million, unproven, promising youngsters – exactly what I thought Moyes' budget would be under the Glazers. Young, relatively unheard of players who will not spark a bidding war, won't attract much competition and offer a potential sell-on profit.

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Thanks for your views, personally I would be surprised if Cabaye is still in a Toon shirt at the end of the window. Remember he is playing in an ok Newcastle team. If you get him, i'm sure he will only get better

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Jimmy -

I'm not sure going from an 'OK' Newcastle United team to an 'OK' Manchester United team will bring the best out of him. At the moment there's very little between our sides.

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RED_SKY

I think Gary Neville said it best. I honestly do believe we are after top level players but they are not available and many teams with money are chasing the same players.

When we are losing matches like we are at the moment, it is easy to blame everything and everyone for the lack of signings. The issue is if we sign guys not at the top, the crowd is fickle with typical complaints that we have no money and no ambition and when you go for the top guys it is not that easy and the risk is you can miss completely.

I know from someone within the hierarchy of the club from the US side of the atlantic we were after CR07 most of the summer and at one point believed it was going to get done.

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I think g Neville said it best when I said
" united are playing 4-4-2 "

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Jred

yeah yeah very funny. BTW we get al Jazeirah here. Andy Grey and Richard keys love our current misery.

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God help you I can't stand R Keys

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Jred

He actually can't stop smiling after days like yesterday. I swear it is the oddest thing for a guy who anchors the program doing what he does. Who does he support anyway?

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20 Jan 2014 12:45:56
There are two posters, in particular, who over the last few weeks seem to have taken it upon themselves to police the board against any criticism of Moyes, the way the team has been performing and the lack of investment in new players. A number of posters, myself included, have been labelled as negative moaners, spoilt brats, smug fools who enjoy when the team they support lose, and generally ignorant to how football works. The overarching claim is that if we don't agree with the choice of manager, if we don't think the players are good enough and if we are opposed to the owners, then we should support a different team.

There are a lot of people who I disagree with on here that I can argue with and take the piss without feeling like they are trying to hound anyone who doesn't share their views: Betty and GCU, for example, disagree but accept the right of other people to be critical. But there is a growing element of consensus stalking which, to be perfectly honest, is getting really boring. There are supporters who don't think Moyes is good enough, who don't rate some of our players, and think that the current owners have been detrimental to our success. This does not mean that they are happy when the team fails, that they want the team to fail because it proves them right, and, especially, it doesn't mean that they need to support another club.

I think it's pathetic that some posters continually argue that any poster that doesn't agree with their views or is critical of the direction the club is taking is unworthy of supporting the club. It's wholly unsurprising that these are the same posters who rarely attempt to engage in any actual debate and start throwing around personal insults instead.

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Agree mate.

Anyone who's moaning and getting wound up by what they're seeing is at least showing passion and a desire for change. such a person is clearly a Manchester United fan who doesn't like what they are seeing.

Putting a positive slant on things may make you a more calm individual but it doesn't give you the right to slag off those who don't see things as being as rosy.

We're all United fans at the end of the day. The reason I for one get so riled up by our situation is I personally see a torrid time ahead and it's all down to a lack of investment over the last couple of years, in key areas in which we are getting weaker by the season.

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Here, here. well said that man!

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Hear, hear!

I too am fed up of those who think that supporting Moyes gives them some sort of superiority over those who are unhappy with how he is doing things.

I personally can't see how anybody could possibly think he is doing a good job - but I still respect the opinions of those that do.

Pointing out Moyes' failings does not make us bad or fickle fans. No one man is bigger than Manchester United - and that includes the manager. I fail to see how it's OK for fans to turn on devoted servants like Rooney and Evra who have contributed so much to the club's success but not on a man whose only contributions so far have been to its downfall.

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Blindly believe or you are not a real fan, you have been told!

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I think your post is pretty fair to be honest Danny. Although it might appear to be on the contrary, our views are not that far apart. Like you, I don't think Moyes was, or is the right man for the job. Where our views differ is that you think he should be gone yesterday, whereas I think we need to (now that he IS here) support him as manager and (dare I say it :) ) show some belief in him. More importantly, the men who appointed him need to back him in the transfer market.
But, there is no right or wrong opinion. They are simply our views, and we are all entitled to them.
Having said all that, there has been an awful lot of knee jerk, hysterical nonsense posted on here lately and some of that has deserved a bit of urine extracting. But hey, its a banter site and that's what its all about isn't it?
At the end of the day we are all United fans, and ultimately we all want the same thing. Now let's all have a big hug and be friends :)

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Couldn't agree more. Don't criticise anything Moyes does as he needs time etc etc etc. not all his fault, I would agree but he's got an awful long way to go! The very people who shout you down for being negative about United rarely come up with anything positive, choosing personal insults instead. I suppose they find it easier that way. The favourite phrase seems to be " Go and support City or Chelsea".

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Lost 7 games 7th in the league, 14 points of top but ssssshhhhh let's pretend everything is great or u will get labelled a pessimist or less of a fan

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Well said danny. Great post.

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Danny, I don't know if I'm one of the two, but for the record, I am p1ssed at the lack of investment and it breaks my heart to see the money taken out of the club. I am annoyed at our player's performances. Simple tackling, passing and control of a ball seem to be alien concepts to them right now. I also feel Moyes has made several mistakes since joining.

I am also realistic to know he isn't going anywhere soon, and the world will not end if we have a bad season.

I also believe that everybody in life deserves a chance. I'll judge him after he's had that chance to get his own players and lose some of our underperforming ones.

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Totally agree just because your no happy with Moyes and the tactics don't mean your an armchair supporter! I think the tactics are diabolical and outdated and Moyes is out of his depth! If your watching shocking defending like that yesterday week in week out everyone has a good right to be critical! Still going to show up for the next game and support them but when they play terrible and the tactics are all wrong i'll criticize them surely! :)

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Good post Danny. One thing for sure, we will know things with a lot more clarity over the next 12 to 18 months.

1. The owners level of financial commitment to the club.

2. Manager being right for the job, as some say he might be a sexton or he might end up being a great manager for our club. Nothing there yet to prove either point and just opinion.

3. Managers ability to build a new team with new players.

4. Mangers ability to win at the highest level

This year reminds of that movie the perfect storm where we have had so many things happen all at once.

Jred

Stop pouting it will get better :)

I Still say top 4 need 72/73 points to get there :)

Finally, I though Mourinho was very gracious in his post match interview and quite odd how he is like that when it comes to us, although he is like that when he wins LOL.

In weird way Mourinho was quite interesting saying he was glad he did not have to play us again this year where the other clubs up top still had to play us and might look like a genius for it for that statement.

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Gcu
By top 4 I take it you mean fourth.
The fact you are happy with that says it all.
I hope your main man moyes has more ambition

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Come on, jred. 4th from where we are now, which we know is what Shahram meant, would be flippin fantastic right now.

At the start of a season it would be sh1t.

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Jred

Given the gap to 3rd pace, I think 4th will be the best outcome and we make the best out of a bad year.

You have for a very long time said that this squad is not good enough. Based on your own statements and where we are at the moment where do you think we should be shooting to finish and where o you think we deserve to finish?

With silly comments like your "main man moyes", I recommend you just call it a day.

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At the moment I would take 4, I think that's where we are as a team .
Not pouting, not very happy about it, not being pessimistic just where I honestly see us as a team

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Jred

Are you feeling alright today?

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Shamlk1, I've just read several posts of yours, and noticed that every, and I mean every, sentence ends with an exclamation mark. Or a double question mark. You must be really, really, really angry right now.

ps. full stops are a perfectly valid way to end a sentence :)

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Danny, just seen your post and as usual, I agree with you completely. I love this site because it contains different views, but I have never insulted any of the posters, called them childish, ignorant, told them to go support another club. I simply take their views on board and sometimes agree, not often, and sometimes disagree, quite often.
To start telling them they're not true supporters bla bla, is pathetic and rude. It is very easy to be rude, so non of us should go down that path.

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20 Jan 2014 12:17:44
The problem with us at the minute is so deep its hard to find an answer. Moyes plays unattractive defensive minded football and its changed everyhthing. For example why bring Smalling on against Chelsea when we are losing and Jones is already on the pitch. Drop Jones back and put on an atakers? g player we were losing 3-0 it didn't matter if it was more we just needed to bring around some belief and start the comeback.
The players don't look happy, they don't seem to be comfortable playing the way we are and as a result they can't pick themselves up, its heartbreaking at the minute watching them simply go through the motions without the passion andbelief we know they've always had.
Sacking the backroom staff was a massive mistake, bringing in Phil Neville with minimum experience was madness. I fear it is going to be a long time before we get going under Moyes and I'm not a moyes hater but I find it difficult to continue backing him when he doesn't seem to have the answers and ability to turn things around.
Our transfer dealings are farcical and I almost feel the Fellaini fee was Moyes last favour to Everton but I think that if he is to turn things around he is going to have to buy big and forget this whole looking for bargains as the market has changed and you have to spend. More so we NEED to spend to 1.show our stars we can spend and ultimately keep them 2.show the world we can still compete in the market and 3. Boost morale in these changing times. If this window is another failure I think someone's head is going to have to roll.
We will continue to stand by our club but I don't think anybody is prepared to watch a full season of what we are seeing now, I hope things change as the only other conclusion is a new manager and we don't want to go down that road although it is always an option.
Food for thought, any takers?

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Unattractive defensive minded football is even ok if ya can defend properly and score on the counter attack! Boring yeah and I hate it but we'd have more points if done right! Mouriniho was a master at it with the likes on Inter and won the champs league! For a team playing defensive football we are a disaster! The defence and defensive midfielders (Jones) Are all over the place and if we relaying on welbeck on the counter with carrick and jones in cm its a joke at best!

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100% Agreed! Why not give Kagawa a run? We needed 2 r 3 subs on at half time yet he persisted with the same Boll*ox tactics when it was clearly not working?? Sacking the backroom staff was the single biggest mistake, and that's saying somethin when ya see Fellaini playing! :'(

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20 Jan 2014 12:04:51
Does anyone have any good news. I'm being torn apart at work. Please help!

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The Good News is that our fans retain their voices and made me feel proud to be a United Fan.
Considering how poor we are doing on the pitch every fan that made it down to The Bridge (and also at Sunderland last week) should be proud of themselves. Well done boys (and any girls. )

Colin The Red

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I just found a fiver in my work trousers. Yippeeeee :)

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20 Jan 2014 11:56:00
Reports suggest that PSG have agreed a fee for Cabaye of around £21 million and Arsenal are going for Griezmann for around the same figure as he wants a move to a top flight European club so he can make the world cup. My god, if we could sign these two I would be very happy. This season he has scored 12 in 17, for a left winger that is outstanding (for someone not playing in the top teams). And guess what, a left winger is just what we need. Cabaye has 7 goals and 2 assists in 19 games this term. Just think how much those two could trans form us. We could have Carrick and Cabaye pulling the strings, RVP up top supported by Januzaj, Rooney and Griezmann.

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I was watching Sociedad recently and found myself contemplating how good we would be with Griezmann on the left and Vela on the right. Would love for us to put in a bid.

Cabaye, on the other hand, I'd rather avoid. He's a good player who would undoubtedly improve our team but I just don't think he's quite good enough to be a United player in the long run. I'm all for bringing in a player to plug the gaps for the rest of this season and perhaps the next one while we are still rebuilding - but £20m is silly money for a player of his caliber.

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Agree on Griezmann Fresh very under rated.

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If Reus is a no go then Griezmann is the one to get, I'd have him over Di Maria or Lucas Moura. To me he is that good and has the potential to go on to be a special player.

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Redseven

If a player would undoubtedly improve us now and could be signed on a 4-5 year deal for 20m and be available for CL and help save our season now as he is adapted to the country I fail to see how this is not good business. Even if we go and sign another two top class cmers in the future he would still replace Carrick and have a squad place while instantly reducing clevers and joneses appearances in cm.

Unfortunately our time to get him was prob the summer and PSG will blow us out the water now anyway so instead we can expect an extra ten+m added to that and take a gamble on a foreign younger lad with no guarantees he can even handle the prem. I know where my bid would be.

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Fresh! I'd argue that he's already a special player.

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Jono -

I rate Cabaye quite highly and have no doubts that he would improve our current team massively. The problem I have with us signing him is that in the long run (the next 18-30 months) - I'm hoping we will build a team which is (for lack of a better way of putting it) better than Cabaye.

To rebuild our team it is going to take time and so there is scope for bringing in stop gap players just to keep us afloat while the rebuilding is going on. Cabaye would be great for that purpose. My problem with Cabaye's valuation however is that the £20m+ we'd spend on Cabaye is £20m+ less we'd have to spend on other players. He'd be a fantastic squad player once the new team was assembled but I question how wise it would be spending that much money on eventual squad players before bringing in our future first 11.

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20 Jan 2014 11:24:25
Shahram

I have seen the PSG rumours and read blancs statement pretty much saying he wants, knows and the team needs Cabaye so even should we go for him now we won't get him. I have resigned myself to not seeing him in our shirt, then again I've been doing that over many cmers for the past 4 1/2 years.

I'm glad allot are turning to support him now it felt like a one man crusade at some points but wherever he goes ill still watch as he is a class player. I find it odd people disregard him so easily just because he is a Newcastle player but his performance v city the other week showed it doesn't matter who he plays for he can perform v the best. That was a one man show for most of newcastles positives.

On to the manager did anyone catch joses comments about his Chelsea stay? Very interesting how he comes out after a game with us basically pointing out he is here to stay, has completed his personal goals now is in the long term project mode of his career, even going as far as saying he will have to change his management style to manage players over 5-6 years. Wonder if he was pointing out the 6 year contract went to the wrong man haha

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Around better players he would be even better, I remember him saying that he looks to touch the ball in a game at least 200 times, he loves the ball and influences the play so much. It would be a mistake to let him slip through our fingers when there are no assurances that Gundogan will pick us or Vidal will leave Juve. He could save our season.

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Jono

No argument from me mate as I have always like him and generally think buying from within the league is much safer in terms of what you get.

We tend to forget that some our biggest success has come from our domestic purchases of players like Cantona, Cole, York, Rooney to name a few.

Watched Sevilla against AM last night given the our potential interest in players like Moreno, Koke, luis, Costa.

I can honestly say that I would be very nervous to pay some of the money people are quoting for these guys and someone like Cabaye look great value at 21 mill when compared to these guys if their so stated release clauses are true and a must pay.

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20 Jan 2014 11:23:57
In any other situation ngiak would be comfortable
But the facts just don't fit
2 deals are just about done
No word out in the open
Champions team by a mile last season
Add to that a resurgent Rooney compared to the last 2 years
A fit and certainly about the best midfielder in his few short appearances in fletcher
The best wonder kid in the land in januzaj
And steel in midfield which we needed for the last 5 years in Felliaini
And we barely make the top half of the league
It just does not make sense to ngiak
With those "stats" we should be way ahead this season
A bad manager?
A poor back room staff?
Players learning a new formation?
Players expecting to leave so not performing?
Many injuries compared to last season?
Probably the last reason may be the most significant
The base is there. It needs to be tweaked soon for the winning team to emerge from the doldrums
Players back from injury plus the potential two new signings
Should change things., if not, ngiak wonders
Is it simply the manager?
gan

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This post made me laugh, I love the 3rd person references

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Gan needs to remember that we had a terrible start to the season (our worst in EPL history) before really suffering any injury problems - so I wouldn't go blaming our problems on injuries.

They've played their part in recent weeks (specifically when we've been without both Rooney and RVP) but there are bigger problems at our club than injuries at the moment.

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All we have to do is look at the tactical stagnation since the season began. Our number one priority is to get to the byline and whip in a cross. The stats don't line: we have the most crosses per game in the league and the least attacks through the middle. Yet, our wingers are poor and none of our strikers thrive on crosses, so unsurprisingly we have terrible cross accuracy and conversion rates. Defensively we are a complete shambles, and Moyes hasn't been able to sort this either.

It says a lot that Moyes keeps repeating the same mistakes time and time again, surely a top class manager would have some new ideas. But, hey, let's not apportion any blame to Moyes because he's just the man who runs the training, sets the tactics and picks the team.

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Gan, any clue as to the players? Defence, Midfield?

Cheers

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Dear mr danny pugunited
Perfectly said sir
Sincerest apologies to mr rred7
Ngiak has absolutely no idea who are the players coming in
Ngiak would have thought there are many others in the know on this site who would have a clue
gan

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20 Jan 2014 11:12:48
I don't think David Moyes anticipated the downward spiral we are experiencing. While he may not have has immediate title aspirations, I believe he expected us to be there or there about by simply following the Fergie blueprint (style, formation, tactics and personnel) as closely as possible. This would have facilitated a smooth transition and given him time to gradually bring in 2 or 3 quality players and replace aging stars over the next 2 - 3 seasons. This clearly has not been the case and we rapidly heading towards a crisis.

I accept that it is not feasible to urgently make 5, 6 or 7 top signings, but what is of major concern is his complete reluctance (or inability) to adapt and make changes. Surely a different formation or tactics is worth a try. Why not give Kagawa an extended run or promote Zaha and/or other youth team players. To simply carry on as if nothing is wrong can never be right. This was epitomized yesterday by coming out in the 2nd half with absolutely no Plan B in the form of changes to formation, tactics or personnel.

I'm all for giving him time and being patient, but the slightest hint of what his future plans and vision are would be most welcomed.

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Have you not been paying attention resol? Moyes is going to target 'the very best' and there is a queue of top players waiting to sign for Manchester United. Moyes will talk this up throughout every transfer window that he is in charge before spending silly money on a mediocre player at the end of the transfer window.

No matter how badly we do in the league Moyes will always insist that we can still win it. We could be twenty points off the top with six games to go and he'll still refuse to rule it out. He'll ignore advice from people who know the club and the players and instead opt to fire all of the backroom staff and bring his own clueless people in. He'll continue to insist on overexerting the players in training leading to more and more injuries. That's OK though - because then he'll be able to use the 'We'd have won if we'd had 'X' and 'Y' on the pitch' excuse - which totally excuses our mediocre performances. If by some miracle our top players are not all injured he will blame the referees as if there is some sort of conspiracy.

He'll refuse to play some of our top young players for mysterious reasons and will play others out of position until they demand to leave the club. If we're in danger of winning something (The Carling Cup, let's say) he'll field a ridiculously week team to make sure that we don't progress. It's OK though - because Swansea and Sunderland are two of the biggest clubs in world football so losing to them is fine.

That's what I've picked up so far after seven months. I'm sure things will be a little clearer in another twelve!

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LOL. "redseven" that is a fantastic assessment!

Please ring woodward and quote the same to him, that may help him and he's clearly not busy at the mo so may even take it on board!

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Champions - I'm afraid a call to Mr. Woodward wouldn't do much good. He seems more concerned with the name on the front of our shirts than the names on the back. Perhaps when the sponsors start pulling out he will start to pay attention to what's going on on the pitch rather than in his bank account.

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20 Jan 2014 11:11:26
Let's wait for the reports to surface that Moyes wants to bring Bebe back off loan after his goal. LOL.

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20 Jan 2014 10:34:13
I wanted to write a post to see, on balance, has Moyes done an acceptable job. Firstly we have to start with the transfer window, he took a holiday when he should of been working and he made himself look stupid in his public pursuit of players such as Fabregas. The transfer team though were largely to blame, the shambles involving Herrera, paying over the odds for Fellaini and not being able to fax a form quick enough really did not help Moyes, this was mostly of Woodwards doing. Moyes never helped himself by clearing out the staff, although having said that managers do need their own men around them.

He then started the season well, a 4-1 win over Swansea and a draw against Chelsea. Whilst he lost to Liverpool in the League he did beat them in the Cup and also beat Arsenal in the League. It's fair to say though that we have had our fair share of defeats despite some promising wins. Our CL form has been mostly good. The run of 6 wins last month gave us much to hope for but again that has tailed off and we have conceded poor goals to draw games with teams like S'ton and Cardiff.

When Moyes took over, we expected that we would be a well organised and difficult team to beat. That is what his teams of the past have been like, they have had solid defences and have played reasonably good football. What is concerning is that Moyes has not transferred these things to us and instead of scoring late goals, we have become a team that concedes late goals.

The gaze has to be put on the playing staff though. Rooney & RVP haven't started together since September and have both only played a handful of games. The new signing who I still think will make it has been injured and is suffering with confidence. Evra, Ferdinand and Vidic have got worse, Jones has to play in central midfield despite being not subtle enough to do so and Rafael has regressed almost to the womb. Moyes has to be credited for getting Januzaj so heavily involved and Welbeck has sort of found some scoring form which is a positive. Also Fletcher, our best midfielder, is on his way back. The biggest worry for me is that he still picks Young over Kagawa and one of our most exciting talents Zaha never gets a game, not even a Cup run out.

Moyes problem may be that he doesn't have the influential heads in the dressing room behind him because they don't have confidence in him. That is evident on the pitch. The presence of Fergie at 90% of games can't help him much either, the question must be asked, if he can make it to every game and still be away from his wife all the time then why did he retire?

If Moyes gets some financial backing and we bring in the 5 players we need: LB, CM, 2 CMs, LW and if the money is there a forward we will do okay. Moyes has to rebuild the squad, any manager would say the same. He isn't my first, second, third or even fourth choice to manage this club, but I will give him the remaining 18 months to turn it around. If not then I will be calling for his head just like many other will do and are doing.

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I think David Ginola summed it up very well. SAF is a massive hole to fill and players are nervous now he isn't around. It's an unknown to them. SAF bossing the place was the norm. Then when you are suffering poor results which is not being helped by injuries, it becomes a snowball effect. Where confidence gets worse and worse. Pressure increases game by game. All this and a lack of investment in the summer has amounted to this. Stability will set in eventually, but whether it happens in time for us to get a top four spot is still unknown. We need our best players back and we need to invest between now and September. Overall Moyes hasn't been a good choice up until now as he didn't have the full backing of the fans and most probably the players too. I think the appointment would have needed to impress all, if not 99% of the fans.

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Moyes has shafted himself IMO. His first window was the most important for a number if reasons. Top ones being it was his first to get fans inside, address areas every utd fan could see needed looked at without the SAF bias, prove its utd that is the draw for top payers not just SAF, and most important IMO get the problems fixed for the next 2 years. Reason for the last point is that this jan and next summer the wc will stop allot of activity and the jan2015 we could be so far out of touch no top players will touch us so that first window had he signed 2cmers, a lb, a cb and a winger he could have floated through the next few windows without half the grief he is getting. Now he is stuck losing fans confidence with every lost day in this window, every bad result and every bad performance from Fellaini and the players we all know are not good enough. He only has himself to blame.

I don't back players who can't perform at the required level and taking on moyes to replace SAF is the same as signing a player from Celtic to replace keane and we all know how well Liam millar did! Some people just are not up to it and I personally don't think moyes is.

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Sydney

I agree

I do wonder if Moyes early season statement about needing 5 or 6 world class players left a few of the players demotivated and lost him a little respect

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He should of given up on the hopeless dreams of Fabregas, Bale and Baines - he must of realised it was very unlikely and other targets should of been pursued.

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Red Man, first of all I want to congratulate you for being correct about the manager needing to be higher profile. I know you would rather be wrong and us doing well, but you were right. Moyes didn't have a big enough majority of fans onside and I do not think certain players had full confidence in him from the start. Once players start freaking out so to speak, the knock on effect is much worse. I think if Moyes was the chosen one then it should have been a much more subtle transition. Perhaps replacing Phelan and working one year under SAF. If a manager was going to come in and change everything around him, then I don't think Moyes was the man to do it. I think the planning for this was abysmal.

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Sydney

Thanks, hell I wish it was going well but it isn't and don't think it will now. It has gone too far, too much damage with players I fear and fans. There is little fight in the players and that is that extra few percent a really good manager and leader generates.
I have seen it before at OT which has made me more frustrated than I think I ever have been

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Sydney

I see you are throwing in the towel lol. I think there are a few more twists left and turns to this season :)

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Shaz, my opinion hasn't changed with Moyes. He wasn't one of my choices, but I will give him time and I am sure the club will too. I haven't given up on a top four finish either, but we need to get our players and confidence back.

Red Man, I hope the players can get behind the manager and we can have one massive push for a top four finish. I don't think Moyes was the right man, but like I said to Shaz, he is here now, the club will back him so in the meantime we must stick together and hope for the best.

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More high profile a bit like Jose?

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Not my cup of tea, but he's certainly higher profile. Many are to be fair.

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20 Jan 2014 10:10:27
All still quiet on the western front, something that is becoming all too common in our transfer windows. I really do hope that we don't have a flurry of transfer activity again on deadline day, we are Manchester United, not Stoke. Our dealings should be done by now, and if that is the case, then its a sorry situation that we find ourselves in. We can't leave ourselves the task of bringing in all 5 of the top class players that we need in the summer, we need deals in place for one or two now e.g. Coentrao and Garay who look to me as though they could be signed now. That would leave us with the task of signing probably Gundogan, LW/RW and possibly another striker if Chicharito leaves and maybe Rooney.

Please get something going David! I know you are trying but it's not paying off yet, put your foot down.

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Dear mr fresh
Despite the fact that it's conspicuously silent on the transfer front
And time has almost run out
It still resonates in ngiak's ear
That 2 deals are just about done
Transfers in and not sponsorships
It is indeed puzzling to the penguin
gan

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With all due respect Ngiak I think you're clutching at straws mate. Hope I'm wrong but I can't see anyone coming in until the summer.

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I think Wilson or Henriquez should be given a chance to be the 4th striker. Pearson should be given a chance in midfield and Perreira isn't too far away either. We have some decent youth coming through, but we also need reinforcements. Hernandez, Nani, Anderson and Kagawa would raise some decent funds and make room for two top quality midfielders. Clearly Moyes doesn't want these players so let's get them out and make some good signings. Just one great midfielder and one great left winger and our options in attack would look much better. For example, say we signed Vidal and Reus and added them to Rooney, Van Persie, Januzaj & Fellaini. Add a decent LB like Coentrao. Bring back Powell, promote some youth and things would look better. The problem is getting two top class players in.

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Agree 100% Sydney but I really can't see Rooney staying past the summer so I think we should keep Kagawa and give him another season in the hole role. I really hope we can keep hold of Rooney but I really can't see it! Powell will be a great addition when he comes back but will Moyes give these guys a chance? Zaha was excellent in pre season yet he hasn't got a sniff! Would love to see Powell, Henriquez, Keane and Lingard getting a run

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20 Jan 2014 08:42:02
I understand people backing moyes and those not as well I was a backer but my trust in him is decreasing rapidly. He has done nothing at all to improve the situation he has had plenty of time to buy players his tactics don't get results. His body language on the sideline is terrible no wonder nobody is fearful when they play us. Also he needs to shout at the players they are used to the hairdryer and that probably kept them alert and thinking especially at the back. And one last thing we have got to stop playing Evans he is terrible we are always bad at the back if his in the the team

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Moyes needs to be given time, continuity and consistency are the main characters a manager should have.

moyes has the first, the latter comes with time.

besides fellaini none of the other players are of moyes choosing.

perhaps the money is not at his disposal and he needs to sell to buy.

fact is players like Evra, Rio, Vidic, giggs, young, anderson, Nani are either on their way out or already out.

the summer is a crucial period to recruit, with the world cup taking majority of the transfer window, between the end of the world cup and the season kicking off, which is more or less a month, moyes will have to get started on his deals now.

besides I also think the likes of chelsea and city are working behind the scenes to make sure they can deviate every world class player from not heading to man utd.

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We have to do our deals before the World Cup because that will lead to huge prices after the WC.

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20 Jan 2014 08:30:08
I think we need to stop using the "If we had RVP and Rooney things would be different". yes maybe so but we can't keep hiding behind these excuses. Moyes tactics and line up choice are somewhat bizarre. Why play Phil Jones in the middle of the park after being out for ages against 3 of the most fluid attacking midfielders in Europe? Why play Januzaj up top and move Welbeck deep? And why oh why play Ashley Young? Again a nothing contribution from him (all to often don't you think?)
We as fans always think we know best, but it seems Moyes is making some strange choices all round. Kagawa after playing his best game so far against Swansea didn't even get on the pitch.

Gary Neville said afterwards that signings are a "last resort" for Manchester United. That speaks volumes and gives the biggest indication why the last few years has led us to this predicament

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We would be different with our two best players, but we still need reinforcements. CB, LB, LW & CM for me.

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Sambo

I think tactically he was spot on with his selections. We had more possession and only conceded from a deflection and two horrendous defensive errors on set pieces.

For a team with as you call such a midfield fluid 3, they did not get anything much joy against us and I genuinely think they were surprised by the appalling nature of our defending and handing the match on a platter.

Kagawa is so light in the tackle guys like luis and Ramirez would have murdered him yesterday.

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Sambo2 I totally agree. Jones shouldn't of played in midfield, his touch isn't good enough or his passing. Young shouldn't of started and Januzaj shouldn't of been a striker. Really strange tactics.

Everyone is saying how it made sense to start with Young - bull. Is Oscar, Willian or Hazard tough in the tackle? They are no harder than Kagawa who at least would of given us added flair. All Chelsea had to do was put 2 men on Januzaj and we had no creative spark as the midfield just passed sideways or backwards and the crosses that went in the box either didn't make it or were over hit.

I am also sick of seeing Ashley Young take corners and freekicks, he is hopeless.

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Kagawa is light? what lighter than Young?
I see what you are saying GCU but I can't agree. so many times we attacked and had Januzaj breaking by himself. Hernandez came on and often found himself deep and pinging balls on. We need it the other way round but have nobody with "forward" thinking vision.
Phil Jones looked sluggish yesterday, which was expected and we saw for Eto'o first that he was on his heels. I just think Fletcher should have started due to being match fit!

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Sambo, I think it's pretty obvious that Kagawa and Hernandez are not in Moyes future plans. (jred said as much) Hernandez and Kagawa will probably be sold in the summer along with Anderson, Nani, Lindegaard & Fabio. Players like Rio, Vidic & Ev will leave too so there is room and cash to invest in players. I suspect we will buy 2-3 potentially good bargains and I am hoping for four top players for the first XI. What we do not need is another Rooney saga this summer so he needs to sign a deal or be sold. But if sold we need to buy first.

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Syd, I agree with what you say. However that's not till the summer so surely we would use the best of what we have until then? Its a shame about Kagawa, I think he has so much potential but our style of play doesn't suit him. We are all about wing play and not intricate pass and move which he is natural at. Hernandez I am torn on, but for his sake I think he needs a move.
We will have another Rooney saga whatever happens, and I think we will have similar with RVP too

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Sambo, I agree. Kagawa is wasted here.

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20 Jan 2014 08:11:41
Now I am not an expert but I would like to have your views on this.

We already are in deep trouble this season, manager is reluctant to make any signings and the players who won us the league last season are acting like they are new to football.

There is a severe lacking of team spirit, the reason to play for United, to play for the badge. They are acting timidly except one, yup Adnan.

In my humble opinion will it not be better to give chance to Lingard, Petrucci, Powell? These boys are doing wonders on loan and if we are not going to sign anybody then we must give these lads a chance. I know some will argue that they will not be able to handle the pressure and fans will be on to them if they fail. But believe me fans will appreciate this as they will atleast see that manager is doing something to improve.

I also feel very bad for Zaha and Kagawa, they are not getting picked even when Rooney is not fit and our experienced wingers are having nightmares.

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19 Jan 2014 22:12:26
The fact some supporters are going mental is rather pathetic and even funny. We do not have a world class team nor a title winning manager but we do have some of the best supporters in the world. The away end today was rocking and we continued to show our support throughout the game.

Anyway, as Ed002 said, we need to wait, we have a poor squad and it will take a good 2 to 3 seasons to complete rebuild it. We will be back up there, just not yet.

I don't know if this has been answered but Ed002 has there been any update on Coentrao? I would have thought the deal would have gone through by now, but no concrete news has came out.

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20 Jan 2014 06:06:40
the game last night only had 2 players who knew what they were doing januzaj and vidic. every one else didn't know how to play football. there needs to be an overhaul.

th eteam doesn't know what to do or how to play, this is moyes fault it shows he doesn't know, at least if he was trying something new or had a bunch of new players, it would be okay to be bad this season, but he is trying to be exactly the same as ferguson with the exact same team.

either utd need to buy a bunch of new players and see what moyes can do or fire moyes and build the team in the summer.

btw they need a LB, CB, CDM, CM, CAM, WINGER and possibly another striker

evans is at fault for the last two goals possibly the first goal as well

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20 Jan 2014 05:37:44
I agree we need players across the board but sell believe good enough to finish top 4 but need players back.

Teams fear players more than teams and a fit RVP and Rooney are a scary pair of striker for any team.

God Created United

We have got good enough players to finish 4th but so have spurs Everton and liverpool which has all ways been my point .
We need Rooney and Rvp back, but like last season this will only paper over the cracks.
You will have the same people shouting this is a great squad when in reality we are not good enough at the back in the middle or out wide.

Also loving the fact a lot of the people shouting we need Rooney back are the same people so convinced he was finished and should be sold not so long ago.

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Jred, I agree with your view on Rooney to a point, but ( and I am not in the anti-Rooney camp) if he won't commit to the club he SHOULD be sold. Despite taking all the plaudits for being our "main man" this season, he still has not said he wants to be here. One simple sentence from him would have put this to bed a long time ago, but I'm afraid that his silence is deafening. The message is simple, sign on or move on.

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Rooney is a top player, no one has ever said any different. He's not the player he once was which is obvious, but still a top player nonetheless. Our biggest loss this season has been Van Persie. There is a massive hole upfront even when Rooney is playing. We need Van Persie back and back soon.

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I think we need to sort a LB this month, the amount of help Ev gets is unforgivable and it pulls players out of their positions. We need a busybody type of midfielder in the side and we need a top left winger. I would then play Jones and Smalling at the back and let them develop a partnership. I think a CB can wait til the summer, but I think we should be doing all we can to buy a midfielder and a LB this month.

So for me four new players, but the LW and CM need to be on the verge of becoming worldies. They need to be top quality.

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Jred

You know fully well I did not rate this team even last year and got abuse for it.

If you are having a dig on rooney, my views on Rooney is simple and has not changed, we need him either in or out sooner than later. He is an important player for the club but not bigger than the club.

The club needs to move forward with him or without him. If he is staying the plan in terms of targets, how and where you spend money is different to him going. Either way I can assure everyone Manchester united with or without him will move forward.

Finally, we have a better squad than many of the teams above us if we have the right players back. We are a team that is very reliant on goals and assists from RVP and rooney, with little contribution from wings and midfielders and that is a legacy issue that will not get fixed in 3 or 6 months.

Even if we finish top 4 there is no denying we need 6 to 7 new players. I think some of the players have stagnated and if things don't improve we might need even a bigger overhaul.

Dig up my post from May last year when I actually said we need 8 new players and got killed by most people who were enjoying the euphoria of another league win.

Finally, I do not agree with the constant bashing the manager is getting and think some of the players and their performance are awful and need to be booted.

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20 Jan 2014 00:21:25
I think the next week is crucial hopefully Rooney and Rvp will be back and push up the table.

Now to the window we won't sign any world class player unless we offer crazy money so for them we have to wait for the summer but there are players out there we can get but people complain they are quick fixes most people are saying the whole squad needs a rebuilt if that's case we could sign 2 or 3 good players this window and come the summer these players would become squad players but will still play a lot of games even if they ain't first choice

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20 Jan 2014 00:26:43
Chelsea fan in peace, strange game really, we never really got out of 2nd gear so being 3-0 up definately flattered us. Januzaj very impressive by far your best player. I obviously don't watch all your games but maybe you can explain why Welbeck is preffered to Hernandez? he's a little pest (i mean that as a compliment) and just a natural goalscorer. Carrick and Phil Jones far to slow in your centre. Fullbacks both look dodgy and Vidic a pale shadow of himself.
Add Rooney and RVP to your side though and they can cover up lots of cracks and I can see you getting 4th, Personally would much rather you got it than the scousers or the spuds.

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A fair assessment. I'm not sure I'd say Chelsea were the better team but they were clinical and for the second two goals we defended abysmally. For that reason the result was probably a fair one.

I'd say Willian was your best player by a mile. Etoo took his chances but the first goal was lucky and the others were tap ins. Ivanovic was the only other Chelsea player who did anything of note.

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20 Jan 2014 00:01:50
It's not all doom and gloom guys - Bebe scored an absolute belter tonight against Braga!

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