Manchester United Banter Archive October 20 2014

20 Oct 2014 23:37:39
For me what's missing at the back is a good talker, smalling, Jones and Evans play well with a strong talker beside them telling where positioning and when to move. Rio and vidic were good at that with those players. A vocal leader is required at the back. I believe Carrick will be a big plus with blind in front of the back 4, Herrera in the middle with lots of options up front.

All those 3 defenders have mistakes in their game and will give away goals. At this level we can't afford to have silly boys putting us on the back for and expect 2 off them gone next summer.

The second goal shows how poor jones is from a positioning and decision making process.

He has been a PL player for 4 or 5 years now and other defenders at is age with that sort of experience have moved on and become much better, he is still what he was a few years ago and has not progressed.

{Ed001's Note - to be fair, he was forced into the position of having to track Sessegnon because Blind was not doing his job. Blind is meant to be the defensive midfielder who should drop back and block off the passes and harry the opposition's attacking midfielder. He should also be there to drop back and fill in the space at the back if either centre back goes forward, either to make a challenge or to bring the ball out from the back. Blind does none of those things, he is playing too far forward, which did result in him scoring, but also was a main reason why West Brom were able to create most of their opportunities. Certainly both goals he could have prevented by being well positioned, even if he wasn't strictly at fault.}

Ed001

I do realise it was someone from midfield that should have been there but Jones was never going to get there in time and should realise that and retain his position. He made the poor decision that was neither here or there.

{Ed001's Note - it was a poor decision, but it should not have lead to a goal, that was down to 3 players getting it wrong. Jones is not the only one to blame. He is part of a problem, not the root cause of it. Given protection in front of him and the error never happens. Given cover behind him and the error doesn't matter.}

20 Oct 2014 23:02:37
I am not going to go on about the game. We should have won but we didn't. The thing I can't understand is why the Manager changed the system. We were't as fluent as we have been when we have used the diamond system; and If Falcao was alongside RVP, we would have taken some of the chances and won comfortably, IMO.

20 Oct 2014 22:22:08
Jesus.

Seriously, we deserved to win that game but when smaller clubs like WBA get 2 clear-cut chances and score twice, we are screwed. Simple as that.

We will win nothing without better CB's. Our defence is so porous, it's depressing. Rafael was the only good performer there, yet again.

Mata is slowly running out of time at OT, IMO. I like him a lot but he's fading bigtime and isn't taking his chance. Januzaj had a perfect opportunity to show why he should start and was one of the worst players on the pitch.

We're going to drop 6pts against Chelsea and City, so its all about how we recover from that, now. If we have the drive, we can still kick on but those two teams will eat our back 4 alive.

In January, we either sell one of Smalling, Jones or Evans and buy a top-class CB, or we're resigned to not making the top 4 again, sadly. Our defence is mid-table in terms of focus and performance.

Yoga are right and I think the whole team defends badly as a unit. This lot will win nothing. Shaw is worryingly bad. And if I was lvg, I'll get rid of smalling Evans and Jones. None are good enough. Our defence is an utter joke.

I really disagree about the defense part.

Yes, we will win nothing without a better defense. No, we don't desesperatly need better defenders.

The blame for the first goal can be shared by Di Maria who lost his man, Shaw who didn't catch up and Rojo. The second goal was arguably because Jones stepped up, or because Rafael did not.

That right there indicates the problems don't lie with the individuals, they lie with the lack of communication. And it is not surprising given how uncommon it is to have the same back 4 for 2 games running.

Fact is, this was our best back 4, but they do not know how to play together. Rojo is a very capable defender, Rafael, on form, is one of the best right backs in the league and still young enough to improve. Jones intermittently shows absolute world class defensive capabilities marred by brain farts, but his age and his injuries count for a lot of his mistakes.

Fact is I can only think of 2 defenders I would have before Jones in the league, and they are both significantly older. Fergie believed him to be one of the top defensive talents in the world, and Jones has done nothing to disprove that theory. A 22 year old defender making mistakes on his way back from injuries is no more surprising than it is uncommon.

As for Januzaj, first start of the season playing for a new coach with new players with a different mentality, at the age of 19, how horrible. We should just get rid ( or stick with him like Liverpool did with Sterling, and were well rewarded )

Now Mata and Rvp have been beyond disappointing. No, I do not believe they were " rubbish " but for a combined price of 50 000 they have been beyond disappointing this season.

Van Gaal is learning from his mistakes. He dropped the 3 man defense, tried to use more width ( it ended up hurting us more by limiting Di Maria's involvement in midfield ), tried to get us to play with one striker, tried to use Mata in his best role, tried to play long ball.

He's learning by trial, and maybe a longer, world cup free pre season might have helped. But we are improving. Our passing is significantly better than it was last year, we are creating more, we are keeping the ball better, we are dominating matches better, and we are slowly improving.

It will take time for us to stop playing like 10 individuals, moving to 3 groups ( defense, midfield, offense ) and then having them all play with harmony, but the midfield has improved, the defense will catch up once the same names keep popping up on the team sheet and the attack will benefit from the solidity at the back

20 Oct 2014 23:25:57
We are going to drop 6 points against Chelsea and City? I have never heard anything ao pathetic from a united fan mate, how can you even say that, it sickens me united fans have just written off the next two games. We are manchester united, we don't give anybody 3 points and we will battle in the next 2 games, we will cause chelsea and City defence plenty of problems with our front line and both games will be entertaining and much better than last year.

Let's stop wallowing and look forward to better times, the football we are playing is miles better than last year. Are we anywhere near the finished article? No, but are we definitely going to lose the next 2 games? No.

You sometimes draw and dare I say it even lose away matches like this.
it was always going to be a tricky one and I for one believe we played very well apart from two lapses . We were by some distance the superior team and on another day would have scored 6.
On another note fair play to fellaini he changed the he was superb when he came on.

20 Oct 2014 21:35:44
Mata is running out of chances to prove he is the player many think he is

I am eagerly waiting for the superlative performance that the team is/was going to display without Rooney in it. "I am glad that Rooney is out for 3 games, can't wait to watch a United squad without him in it".

Deeps.

Correct Pink. I said we'll miss Rooney big time and mata in two matches has created nothing apart from a simple pass for di Maria's goal who anyone could've played. Januzaj was a waste of space. He's gone backwards.
Our defence is shambolic.

20 Oct 2014 21:27:07
Where was phil Jones on that goal? Out of position as usual. Did not even try and get back. Not good enough. Rvp just seems totally disinterested. I am worried about the Chelsea, arsenal and city games. This west brim side is distinctly average at best and we can't beat them. Not good.

20 Oct 2014 21:45:39
Why have we regressed? All the good things about recent games, I.e quick incisive attacking has been forgotten. We are back to slow build up play. On a positive note how good were out two goals. Praise where praise is due. Well done the wig.

Rooney ?

Maybe a certain Rooney was missed? While all his detractors keep telling us he's rubbish.

20 Oct 2014 21:01:26
9 games in to the easiest fixture list any team has ever had and United look worse game by game. Who picks a midfield of blind, Herrera, mata, januzaj and do Maria whose supposed to be tackling in there. RVP has been awful again shaw should be ashamed of his performance. Surely LVG must take the blame spent all that money and produced the worst team in that shirt for decades

21 Oct 2014 01:39:47
Mate calm down your embarrassing yourself. We were quite unlucky not to win tonight we dominated the whole game. West Brom had two shots on target and scored it was down to errors which was the difference tonight. The worst team in decades?? Did u actually go to a game last year and before because I would say we are playing the most exciting football for the past 5 years. I expect a top four finish this season and to make a real push to win the FA Cup and I think the majority of fans if they are honest would be pleased with that considering last seasons fiasco. However I do fully expect us to be right up there challenging for title next season

20 Oct 2014 20:52:26
How many of you thinking honestly without keeping image and big said things in mind that janujaz is mostly playing rubbish?? Very selfish and nanish???

He's young. He needs to go out on loan. I think he believes all the hype around him is true. One good game for us v Sunderland last year. That's it.

Nomidfield, did you actually watch any other games last season?

20 Oct 2014 19:14:49
Gutted Falcao is missing out.

I hope LVG knows what he is doing this time.

I think LvG is trying to make sure we are not overrun in midfield. It would be naive to play two up against a team who pack midfield and something we got away with a few times in SAF's later years. My thoughts are that we will likely try to use DiMaria's pace in a different way than we would if RVP and Falcao played together. I would play Falcao instead of RVP but RVP now has to perform. We will see.

Falcao has travelled a lot, will adan play as a striker?

Long ball kings, it just doesn't work. even when we have the ball out wide and cross it we have just RVP in the box, we just create nothing.

Switch to the diamond, bring off Mata & Januzaj (were they playing?), bring on Fellaini & Falcao - it needs to happen in order for us to create.

Far too many passengers again.

Agreed Beast. Even I'm losing faith. We can't play januzaj just because he's a promising youngster. Mata ineffective again. We look utterly hopeless.

20 Oct 2014 22:21:20
NM,

'Even I'm losing faith'. I am unsure you are the benchmark of people who have a lot of faith!

20 Oct 2014 23:42:13
Brilliant GDS

20 Oct 2014 14:22:09
Now I am not for one moment suggesting that this is how we should play but just sharing another option that we have.


Juan Mata for all the talent he possesses has failed to really make an impact at the club so far(lets not get into who is or isn't responsible for this but it is a reality). Yes his stats are good but his influence on games is fairly minimal.

Once Carrick is back do you think Carrick and Blind can play together with Herrera/Januzaj playing the number 10 role with two of Rooney/RvP/Falcao playing up front?

20 Oct 2014 14:34:51
Failed???? Have u really checked the stats and who's batter performing in team??

Are we dropping ADM too as well as Mata and one of Rooney, RVP and Falcao? I get that stats aren't everything - but surely scoring and assisting goals is the epitome of influencing games, no?

R7 I said play only two of Rooney/RvP/Falcao so ADM will obviously play.


Rodio would you be ok with Mata scoring against Burnley, WBA and QPR thereby having good stats but not doing anything in the game against Chelsea/City? I most certainly wouldn't be happy with that.

To be really honest and this is just a personal opinion but I do not think Mata is quick enough to play in our team.
Also I think he easily gets knocked off the ball and allows the opposition to attack us.

Imagine Matic/Toure robbing the ball off Mata and setting Hazard/Aguero into a counterattack. I am not saying he is solely responsible for all our defensive mistakes I am just saying that his performances for us have been unconvincing so far.

I hope he proves me wrong an scores against Chelsea and gets us 3 points.

And Rodio have you seen Mata's stats at Chelsea? He has brilliant stats at Chelsea yet Mourinho saw fit to sell him and they are arguably in a better position playing better football with him in the team.

I re-iterate that I do not think Mata is a bad player I just think he is a bit slow and does not hold the ball well in possession. He is not a deep lying playmaker like Scholes/Pirlo but a goes forward and needs his space to work his magic. Unfortunately sides with very good midfielders will not allow him this space.

We need to give Mata a chance with players of the calibre of ADM & Falcao around him - I will hammer the nail home after the 3rd game without Rooney if he doesn't do more to stake his claim than he did against Everton.

He has had no pace to work with so the next couple of games are key for me, he has chipped in with the goal or assist but his overall play has been sub-par since signing.

I would argue that had Fellaini played the same games Mata has in the hole he would have more assists and more goals than Mata has scored (so would the team), so looking at stats is pointless at the moment. I'm not saying Fellaini is a better footballer than Mata, but I think he makes more happen which is a poor indictment on Mata.

I hope he performs because he has it in his locker, just maybe that locker belongs in Spain.

If Mata had scored against Burnley and got the winner tonight against WBA I'd be chuffed - as we'd be level with City on points in 2nd/3rd place.

I don't see us taking anything from the City or Chelski games with or without Mata - and so how he performs in them isn't really consequential. I'd much rather have Mata on the field than Januzaj!

R7 I'd have Mata over Januzaj only because of his ability from a dead-ball.

I think he is the best free kick taker in the squad.

R7 - Would you rather see Fellaini or Mata against WBA & Chelsea in the hole? We are normally on the same page with our thinking.

I would be interested to know if people think that little hairy curve ball could be a shrewd move because I worry about us against Chelsea with Mata's lack of movement in particular. Aerially we could do with him as set-pieces are normally vital against Chelsea as well.

Herrera would be better in the hole than the pair of them

Fellaini just doesn't offer enough in an attacking sense. Given that Chelsea will be playing one up top I'd like to see us do the same and stick an extra body in midfield. Blind, Carrick, Herrera with ADM and Mata behind Falcao would be our best chance of coming away with a result, in my opinion. Maybe swap big wig in for Carrick - but certainly not for Mata!

As for the WBA game it looks like we're going to play 4-3-3 with ADM and Januzaj out wide. The latter has a lot to prove tonight.

Adan might play as a striker

When he came on I kind of had a feeling I'd be eating my words. Credit where it's due.

20 Oct 2014 09:23:25
Important game tonight as it will keep us in the top 4. I am hoping that after an international break we will have prepared for the upcoming fixtures as we do have a fair few difficult ones via Chelsea and City.

If we manage to win our next 3-4 games we could end up further up the table than we all anticipated and I do believe we can beat both City and Chelsea.

I'm not going to comment as to whether or not we can beat those two. But what I am going to say is that there will be a lot of goals in both games.