Manchester United Banter Archive January 21 2013

21 Jan 2013 22:22:32
Gav

I really don't think I am over analysing it. I think that up until recently I was a one man show of a Utd fan that didn't have those tinted specs on when judging a keeper. If DDG was even just 25 and still making those mistakes many on here would turn coat it to my opinion and most would drop this suggestion that he is guaranteed to become world class.

I think that is what I have the biggest gripe about possibly. That at the beginning almost all were of the opinion he was a definite world beater but from all the previous Madrid games I had watched him in I failed to see where this confidence in his ability was coming from.

Maybe it stemmed from SAF trusting 18 big ones for him? Maybe it was SAF thinking he was good enough to replace VDS I don't know but I was never convinced.

Outwith his ability there is question marks over his long term plans on a personal level aswell which don't sit right with me and many others on here painted Hazard and Moura with that exact same brush when we were linked with them.

What also annoys me is the clear hypocrisy in some posters who when it was Linders (another Utd player by the way) it was all fine and dandy ripping him to pieces for what, 1 or 2 bad games? Yet when it's the beloved DDG he is protected by the age or inexperience or new to the league or my personnel favourite the messiah tag.

People are calling me pathetic for pointing out obvious mistakes in every game but I'm only able to point these out as they are happening almost every game. I'm not making stuff up and posting it I'm analysing what everyone is watching yet where I see a failed punch leading to a goal I blame the keeper, others want to blame, the FB, the CB, the CM before ever allowing a shot at the keeper.

Christ if that was Linders he would have been hung out to dry by everyone of the DDG loyalists even if he had performed the same during the 90!

Now that is what I would call pathetic!

I agree his shot stopping is good borderline great but IMO the Many areas of his game that are not even up to good standard outweighs the ability to save 30 yard free kicks out of the top corner.

I would feel far more comfortable if he were making different mstakes all the time instead of the same ones. As then he could be shown to be learning from one mistake and doing something about it.

Can you really forgive a professional GK to not have learned to catch a ball in 18 months? That one when Vida shielded his man for DDG to have a clear run at a catch and he still punched it was terrible.

I think my criticism of DDG mirrors many other of say Nani's. I think DDG is good at shot stopping but his other areas will always let him down many others (myself included) think Nani is good at being direct but his decision making will always let him down. Now out with Percy there are many who want Nani gone as they believe they have seen no improvement. IMO I have not seen any sort of marked difference after 18 months goal.

To be honest about it all he did play well yesterday I have said this already but he was at fault for the goal yet some would have everyone else lined up for criticism first before DDG.

I see none of the DDG super fans have answered my question about if he was to be sold this summer. That's interesting.

Red man

Pete came as an unknown from un fancied Brondby as an established style of keeper that could fit the prem like a glove. The style DDG has does not. So the mistakes he is making are dpfrom areas of weakness that have no signs of improvement 18 months later. Pete after 6 months had any doubters drooling at his ability and was proving them all wrong.

From the way things are going on this site at least I'm starting to see a shift to more posters admitting these mistakes are a concern and irrelevent of age he could well be on for the chop.

How would you feel if SAF decided this summer to move him on? Would you be calling him every name under the sun for such a baffling mistake or trust his judgement and agree with his choice?

Jono

Jono

I do think you make some valid points I just think it would be healthy to take a break from discrediting his every performance and just assess your general feeling after a longer run of games. He's been here 18 months, he has improved IMO but I would have liked to seen him kick on a little further. But he's our best keeper ATM so I just think it better to get behind the lad.

On your question about a summer transfer: I said further down that I would have liked a keeper with more experience in the 1st place. I'd like to see DDG given more time now he's here but if SAF feels in the summer that he's had his chances and replaces him with a top, experienced keeper I won't cry about it. I trust the manager after all.

But seeing as such a decision won't be made til the summer I think we should be patient with him until then. Like I've said he's not going to improve drastically each week I'd rather assess him over our long run of games between now and then.

Gav

Jono,

I'm going to say it mate, we get it, you are banging the same drum over and over again and I'm not sure what you are expecting us to say. Do you want red man to say ah yes jono you are correct, de gea out. You clearly have an issue but bringing the same thing up over and over again isn't adding anything.

I much preferred it when you were knocking one out over cabaye every night ;)

Nothing personal obviously and your opinion is taken on board, just starting to sound like you are doing it to get people to disagree with you and I don't really think you are.

GDS

Ddg will be one of the best keepers around. Lindegard is not fit to lace his boots. If you want ddg out, then fine, but don't come back in two years time when he's become the best keeper around.
He has incredible potential, and he is very young for a goalie. So let's give him a chance. Yes he's made the odd mistake, but he's still learning his trade.
Big Pete and vds played behind Bruce/pallister and vidic/Ferdinand at their prime. While ddg is having to make do with changing centre backs all the time.
Give the man a chance.
Nomidfield

To be honest GDS mate it's getting tedious having to write the same thing over and over.

I would like many more to just have a bit more objectivity when coming on here to discuss DDG instead of having the blinkers on. Maybe that's pushed me into the anti-DDG posts even more I don't know but for the good of the general readers on here I'm going to refrain from posting unless asked about it.

To save everyone wearing out the disagree button ;-)

Jono

Btw the Cabaye bash outs are still a regular event but seems as though it's more of a party now than my one man crusade to get him here ha

And madrid would only want him because he is crap, eh jono . or barcalona two top clubs in the world with a lot more nous and experience than you jono ( no offence) and if they are intersted then he obviously has got something

dave

No midfield

VDS won the CL when he was 24 and European keeper of the year at 25 so he has high standards to match for a goalkeeping great.

Jono

Dave

Both real and barca don't need the type of GK we do. They need a shot stopper first and foremost with distribution up there aswell. Tht is exactly where DDg strengths suit them to the ground. Therefore they would be willing to get him on the basis his attributes best fit their needs.

For example. Could Liverpool have used mascherano in CB for a season? No because the CBs needed in our league can't be like mascherano or they will be targeted and shown up for their weaknesses.

Jono

21 Jan 2013 21:13:49
One point from the weekend that does not appear to have been picked up, free kicks. We get free kicks in areas that every other team regard as dangerous and an opportunity to score yet we pass it short. On Sunday, Spurs had a free kick in an identical position to one we had, they brought their big defenders up and put the ball in the danger area, they didn't score but created danger, got a corner and kept the pressure on. Our alternative was that we got everyone lined up then passed sideways, after a further three or four passes it was back with De Gea to kick it and it ended back with them.

This appears to be a missed opportunity, because the keeper kicking it often gives it away, although De Gea's kicking is excellent and one of the most accurate goal keepers I have seen. Do we actually work on free kicks enough, especially as in RVP we have someone who can deliver dangerous balls in. Maybe we should look to Vidic rather than passing it backwards, or are we too scared to lose possession now, and is that why Valencia, Nani and Young turn and pass back rather than go at players because they may lose it and receive the managers wrath?

Red Man

Ive said that before Red man that Toni has looked more like he is deliberately keeping possession than choosing to turn back and of all the people who you would think would do exactly as he was told Toni would definitely be up there.

Jono

I've noticed we do it a lot so I'd assume it's a deliberate tactictal decision in the pursuit of keeping possession. Personally, I would like to see us mix it up a bit more from dead ball situations.

Gav

I can't help but think it is because we are concerned about losing possession and our defence not being able to get back quickly enough.

TK-Red

No reason why we should do this. We have rvp delivering superb corners, so can you imagine how dangerous we'll be if he delivers free kicks.
Nomidfield

I mentioned this months ago, this does make me wonder why we are buying Zaha if we are not going to let him take players on anyway. Pointless.

Sydney!

Syney

I too find it a little strange that SAF seems to be encouaging less wingplay, and more possession in the middle of the park - yet he is still seemingly in the market for wingers! I'm a little stumped on what shape exactly the manager sees us playing next season. Will Zaha replace one of our wingers or will we get Zaha and Isco (for instance) so we can mix up the tactics a bit? I'm not sure

Gav

Gav, also if you chuck in the likelihood of Lewandowski? What is the manager looking to do?

Sydney!

I know Syd, signing big Lew would muddy the waters even further. At least it keeps us on the edge of our seats, lol. The Zaha rumour is going from strength to strength today.

Gav

p.s. sorry for missing the 'd' in your name 1st time round!

21 Jan 2013 20:27:21
Just watched Pogba's goals from the weekend : ( .....think he is going to be a monster just wish he'd got a chance at United might have made him want to stay !!

At least Sneijder gate is now well and truly over !!

MACMAN

21 Jan 2013 19:37:15
Well the Pogba debate is properly put to bed now, he has no love of Utd there is an interview on slyspurts with him .Glad to be rid of him myself

Pardoe

21 Jan 2013 18:59:38
Guys, question what do you all think of van velsen? I haven't seen much of him but I hear he's an extremely talented winger? Could he make it here?

Caolán.

As what?

Hi

watched him a few times still very raw but potentially exciting future

Watched him quite a lot through the youth teams and my opinion is that he never stood out and doesn't look to have enough to make it with us.i could be wrong and he turns into a fantastic player but I haven't seen anything yet that would convince me.
johndenton

21 Jan 2013 18:01:50
Yesterday's match was inspiring to watch on many fronts. Jones excelled as a defensive midfielder, DeGea made several outstanding saves, Ferdinand & Vidic played like the outstanding pairing from years past. RVP came through with an outstanding header for a goal, Cleverley had flashes of briliance, Carrick played another good match, but honestly, my question is, when will United bring in a strong central midfielder to dominate the midfield?
Many posts allude to the fact that a replacement is needed for Scholes, but if you analyze closely, how many matches has Scholes featured and dominated this season? Not many. Why not bring in a young, talented central midfielder that can learn from a legend such as Scholes? Examples of such are Strootman, Wayama, Eriksen, Goetze, etc.
Thanks for your time.

Bailey

21 Jan 2013 16:49:46
Again the De Gea debate takes centre stage rather than talk about the real problems we saw yesterday. De Gea was excellent for 90 min while under a heavy barrage of shots and crosses. He didn't get enough purchase on his punch but this was one of a few individual errors directly implicated in the goal. Yes he was at falt. Did he cost us a goal? Not single handedly but he does have a portion of the blame.

But to focus on one moment in the game is to detract from the way we were played off the park by Spurs in the second half. This is hardly surprising considering Liverpool bossed us for 25 min the weekend before. People having been crowing about Evra's attacking play for the past few weeks, yesterday showed us that defensive game simply isn't up to scratch. Lennon is no world beater. He is a fast direct winger and proved time and time again that if you run at Evra you're likely to beat him. Not good enough, and not going to get any better. This needs to be Evra's last season.

The wing situation is frightening. Cleverly proving to be a best option on the right wing at the moment? Valencia should not be anywhere near the first team at the moment. He was brought on to give us width, but his first thought everytime he receives the ball is to stop and pass it to another player. He should never have been sent on. We would have been better to bring on Smalling and move Rafael a bit further foward.

Why was Kagawa taken off? Playing well, helping out the midfield. But Wayne doesn't like being on the bench, so he had to come on. What did he do? Aside for the penalty incident, absolutely nothing.

The biggest problem is that the team lacks any killer instinct. It beggars belief that a team with such a poor defensive record thinks that sticking everyone behind the ball is the best way to win a game. If we're playing a decent side and take the lead, the second half is all about hanging onto the lead. We scraped by against Chelsea, City and Liverpool but we paid the price here. Our talent lies in scoring goals, when we isolate RVP we don't score goals and we still concede.

Danny Pughnited

Agreed. Why can't we start as we mean to go on... Always taking the foot off the gas.. For example, If we continued the first half performances in the spurs and Liverpool games in the second. We'd win these games easily... It is strange as its looks as though they had no chance to cope with us in attack and defence...

Patzi

21 Jan 2013 15:58:37
So I thought RVP had scored an average goal for once yesterday, just peeling off to the back post and the ball fortuitously finding it's way to his head...but I was wrong wasn't I!?

Did anyone else notice his little sharp movement to take the defender forwards, then immediately he stepped back a meter or 2 into the space. He seemed to know which movement to make before the ball had left Clev's boot even and seemed to know exactly where the ball would head to!

It was just a subtle movement but a truly world class piece of anticipation.

We go on about Hernandez's insintctive runs but it's amazing to think RVP has this skill too, on top of the ability to find a yard of space anywhere on the pitch and hit the back of the net more often than not...

In short, the man has it all and I'm so glad he's with us!

Gav

If Van Persie had the pace of Welbeck, he would be on par with Cristiano and Messi.

Mick

In the form of his life, at just the right time. I knew he was going to be good, but Nostradamus himself would be amazed at his improving so much on an already amazing last season for Arsenal.

Patzi

21 Jan 2013 03:06:29
Ed ?
Que. Where was L.Nani last nite? ?
Is he gone to agree personal terms with other football club ?
He is training with man utd players every day., then why SAF didn't named him in the Squad?

Ed?

Yash (India) {Ed004's Note - I'm not sure}

He is in Doha with the team.

Shahram

We did have a strong bench last night TBF and although Valencia has been poor the manager clearly trusted him more to come off the bench and make an impact (not sure why!). I would think it's just rotation, but it does show SAF is not desperate to chuck Nani straight back in.

Forgot to signoff the 2nd reply

Gav

21 Jan 2013 15:28:01
Been a long time since I last posted, about 18 months I believe.

Exciting season so far would be an understatement! The way the team has marched to the top of the league with the personel we have at our disposal and that brilliant undeniable need to win united have has ensured a great season so far.

Lets hope our momentum keeps up and we really push on from here, I think we are still to see us at our very best.

A few good signings in the summer with a new winger or two anf a new engine in the centre I think united could be onto something very special!

I love all our youngsters at the moment, I think with our current crop we could begin to see a renewed dominance of united in the next year or 2.

And ps please lay of DDG, I think youd struggle to find a better keeper at his age in the world.

Long live united

Safwetrust87

Well said lets hope KLOOT reads this post and start supporting the players rather than slagging them and the glaziers off, it could be worse we could have the owners of chelsea or southampton who sack managers for fun

Couldn't agree more! Reading a lot about DDG being too ustable, and doing a lot of mistakes, and that he needs to be on the same level as Van der Sar and Schmeichel. But either Van der Sar or Schmeichel was as good as DDG when they where at the same age, so I really can't understand why they are questioning his skills.

One of the best shoot-stoppers in the world, and still only 22 years old! Unquestionable potensial!

Noxas

I have nothing against Glass fitters anywhere. I AM KLOOT

21 Jan 2013 17:53:44
Couldn't agree more! Genuinely excited for the future, some people just don't realise how good a squad we have.
We have the biggest transition for many, many years underway and people have no patience.
United til I die.

Whistler.

Top post IMO, Safwetrust87. The voice of reason, I wish you'd post more often, lol.

I'm also optimistic of our future and particularly with regards some of our youngsters. Smalling, Jones, Hernandez, Rafael are some of my favourites and I'm looking forward to seeing them play for us for many years. I'm hoping Powell and Henriquez turn out to be gems too.

Gav

I look at powell, DDG, the da silva twins, hernandez etc with huge hope, I personally think welbeck and cleverly will be very good players but just below that top bracket, i'd be lying if I said there wasnt areas to improve on but what team doesnt.

Still top of the league and playing pretty well, keep it up boys!

Im genuinely incredibly excited about our champions league games with real, thwy will be something special

Safwetrust87

As usual KLOOT has no answers but to make jokes as I said in earlier post support your team not slag them off
RED TONKA
P.S forgot to sign previous post under Safwetrust87

Sorry about that RED PLONKA but Glaziers fit Glass they don't own United that is the Glazers but why should you bother to know who owns your club and is robbing it blind. I AM KLOOT

Sorry kloot if a typing mistake is all you can comment on

21 Jan 2013 14:54:10
on the carrick debate I personally think if we bought an attacking midfielder to play alongside him, fans would appreciate what he brings to team very rarely loses ball passes long and short and main thing is always wants the ball.ideal player to build the play up with in a deep lying role.to me at the moment utds player of season along with rvp.

I don't think Carrick is the kind of player that sits in front of the back four alone. We couldn't go and buy an attacking midfielder to play alongside him, it will need to be a versatile midfielder that can both defend and attack. Strootman, Cabaye, Bender etc.

Sydney!

Agree with Syd, we need to play with 2 deep lying CM'ers to allow our front 4 the freedom to attack IMO. Any of your 3 suggestions would work well.

Gav

Never liked Carrick, but have to say he is in a purpke patch at the moment playing very well. And I don't think we will contemplate a signing this window. Cleverly, Fletcher, Anderson, Scholes and Giggs can all play there though none of them have staked a claim to be the main man. I would expect one in the summer though (said that for 3 years mind). On a negative note c/m, anybody see Pogba for Juve at the weekend, was excellent all game and scored an absolute belter.
Invisible STuey

21 Jan 2013 13:47:11
Just a quick point about potential replacement keepers. As much as I rate Begovic, if De Gea had positioned himself as Begovic did for the free kick De Guzman scored, he would've been slaughtered for it.

TK-Red

That was the worst positioning I've ever seen by a top flight keeper, lol. I think he was trying to use psychology, but it backfired big time!

Everyone's allowed the odd mistake though (some poster's take note!).

Gav

He was practically on his left hand post. Maybe he took the walls height for granted and thought De Guzman would never get it up, over and back down again......he was mistaken.

TK-Red

You will be lucky to finish in the top 6, we are in first and you are chirping like a canary because you win a game and we draw.

Gav are they talking to you? because I'm sure they can't be talking to me lol

TK-Red

Lol, no idea TK.

Gav

21 Jan 2013 13:04:53
Guys, let's take a quick break from the microscopic analysis of yesterday's game and De Gea debate and think about the best news of the last few days. Finally, FINALLY...the Wezli Schneider talk can end! At last we can move on from that saga and focus on what we have and potential targets that would make far more sense. Have a nice day lads (and Jenny).

FHS

What, have we signed him!?...lol

Patzi

They will never end, I guarantee you that in the summer someone will post that Sneijder is unhappy in Turkey and he's willing to finally drop his wage demands to join us.

Sydney!

That will be me syd ...... An Wat about it ...... ;)

CAIN

I sincerely hope not. If we make the signings we need to then he won't have a place in the squad. That said, there will always be those who say 'he's too good to turn down!' Mentioning no names (CAIN!).

FHS

21 Jan 2013 11:49:42
Just been reading on the United website about Alan Hansen writing that De Gea has made too many mistakes and that surely he should be dropped soon. He went on to say how the equaliser spurs scored right in the last minutes of the game was De Gea's fault, who here thinks that's a load of crap? Was it his fault, the way I remember it was no one was tight enough on Dempsey when the ball came in. Thoughts guys?

Ozwald

21 Jan 2013 12:10:53
He made no mention of the number of great saves he made before that on MOTD. Its about time the tv shock it up a little bit its all to friendly between them all. i'd quite like to see Keane on it it doesn't matter who it he tells it like it is

DDG was partly at fault as he should have done better with the punch. But it's not his fault we only drew, if it wasn't for him we would have lost.

Sydney!

It wasn't his fault at all. We had a chance with Valencia to clear it for a start. And Dempsey had lost Ferdinand - so either Valencia or Ferdinand should be blamed before De Gea. If it wasn't for De Gea they could of had 4 or 5 by the time they scored.

Fresh!

Exactly my thoughts. He made brilliant saves and has done in the past in the same games where he has made a few mistakes. All the media talk about how Fergie's patients must be wearing thin but he's one of the most patient people in the world of football. He is only 22 and surely no one at MU would expect him to be the complete package for at least another couple of years, but when he is i'm sure he'll go down in history as one of the all time greats.

Ozwald

Maybe being a Liverpool fan he desperate for us to weaken?...lol

Patzi

I think they should have Schmeichal on it more often, it was nice the other time when the other presenters said DDG made a mistake (can't remember which game sorry) when in fact according to Schmeichal (and surely there is no better expert on goal keeping) said it was a great save as it came through the bodies of other players.

Red Joe

Agree with Syd's comment, 100%. IMO the keeper should definitely have made a better contact, but if he had have managed it - it would have been one of the best keeping performances of the season! So to blast him after that game is very harsh. I also think others were at fault for the goal as much as DDG, like last week when Cleverly/Rafael were also at fault for L'pools goal but that goes unnoticed.

Really hope he can go a few weeks without even a hint of a mistake so he can shut up all the slaters.

Gav

21 Jan 2013 11:03:15
I used to have a rule..........never bet on your own team. I've put 2 bets on lately. 2-0 against west ham and rooney to score both. he missed a pen. 2-0 against spurs and rvp to score first. blatant pen turned down.

so its obviously my fault we drew yesterday. my bad! Will be betting on city every week now. lol

jamesmack8

Same here mate, I had city-utd 2-2 with Rooney 1st goal!

Was over the moon when RVP hit the winner than it hit me that it had cost me £216 if I remember rightly, never betting on Utd games again.


Parks.

I have my own rule, never bet. It's working out OK so far, I've not made any money but I'm not down either!

Gav

21 Jan 2013 09:59:38
Spurs deserved a point. We played well in parts but spurs dominated towards the end. I wonder why Valencia came on at the end when Anderson might of been a better option.

De Gea made enough saves, I knew a goal was coming, as we cleared and the ball kept coming back tie and again. De Gea is getting a lot of stick but the midfield and attack should get one for not holding the ball or getting any possssion. The were overrun by Spurs.

Draw was a fair result.

Bryn Mez

If it wasn't for DDG we would have lost 4-1. The eimple fact is not one player in red reacted when he punched the ball. Get of DDG's back. Some of you scream out for young players to play and then crucify them when they do. Personally I Felt Rooney was poor when he came on and actually weakened us. Kawagwa was holding the ball up nicely and interlinking with Wellbeck, Cleverly and RVP. Over all a draw was a fair result and there is a lot to be positive about.

Well said.
When ddg punched the ball with his wet fist in horrible weather neither evra nor rafael reacted faster. It was slow carrik covering extra fast lennon than evra. It was defenders duty to cover a winger. And after that lennon manage to cross as he got space.
And please people watch replay again and again it was rafael who lost the ball in attempt to play counter when it was not needed. He is young takes wrong decisions I understand but putting all blame on ddg's clearance is foolish by some regular posters. The two saves he made was world class. Rare breed can stop those.
Then after rafael didn't even try to get back to his position as he got ashamed by loosing the ball.
Now what do experts have to say on this? Sydney? Running after ddg but we were not stand a chance if he is not there.
commanding the box by yelling and pulling is nt enough for a modern goal keeper. He need those reflaxes. And ddg is master at it.
U cnt blame ddg for poor defending and man marking.

Sorry but people please watch that goal build up again and again than say if I m wrong.

Rodio17

Good point, Rodio. Couldn't believe it when I saw Rafael just chuck his arm's in the air and not bother tracking back. That was not the time for that. I'm not slating Rafael though as he's one of my favourites and has been class this season.

Gav

Thanx GAV. you could see how many were throwing dead cow on ddgs head and a few were regular and well respected postrs in here also. And today the same are having different rants.
I always laugh when I read such expert frustration. Ppl seeing welback as looser but evry team needs tireless workers forget whts there actual role.

Rodio17

21 Jan 2013 09:29:04
Read a post further down saying carrick is the best at what he does in PL atm, if this were true then no one would be calling for new jan or summer signings as we would stick clev jones or ando next to him in a 2 man midfield. if carrick is the best at what he does then sadly he doesn't do enough. I think he's playing well but there is no need to go over board guys

I wrote it and he is the best at what he does and echoed by many top pundits. The issue is with the supporting cast. Cleverly gets pushed off the ball and not a ball winning midfielder and he is by no means a creative force. He has a little bit of everything but not particularly outstanding in any area.

Anderson is good going forward but not great defensively and Jones is good at breaking up play but not the greatest passer.

Please tell me who in the league is better than Carrick in his current role?

Shahram

I was watching the RM game and although I have a very high opinion of Alonso but he has Ozil and Khedira and Di Maria and Ronaldo down the wings.

Put Carrick in that set up instead of Alonso and you would be surprised how good he is.

Shahram

He is always in the top 3 for interceptions etc which means he doesn't need to keep making sliding tackles etc. His passing is good and same for his positional sense

Pardoe

He is excellent at organising everyone, and his interceptions are good and he has a good passing range. Alongside either Cleverly or a new signing such as Cabaye he would be even better.

Fresh!

An absolute magician for creating diagonal space for team mates to run into when he has the ball at his feet. He drags people into him, puts them in a in trance and then slips it past them. They don't even see what he's doing! A joy to watch. Carrick is our Stand out player this season, well if you put RVP aside!

Patzi

Carrick is one of the best 'all-round' midfielders in the EPL, guarantees a 7/10 or 8/10 each week and is good at passing, organising, covering defensively, making interceptions etc.

He goes unnoticed sometimes as he doesn't really excel in one particular area like others. So he doesn't have the power and force of Yaya, he doesn't have the skill level of a Xavi and can't whack a shot like Lampard/Gerrard but Like I say he is one of the best 'all-rounders' in the country.

I agree with Sharham's post, Carrick plus a top box-to-box type CM'er would be a great base for us to build a team around IMO.

Gav

21 Jan 2013 08:57:52
I felt that DDG was outstanding. I couldn't give a sh#t about the punch. If it wasn't for him we'd have beaten convincingly. I see today that the Spanish media are trying to 'unsettle' him so he goes to Barca for 'under 20mil', as Barca won't pay that much. This talk really irritates me, as I feel if we were to lose him. He should be closer to 30mil. And I'd still be gutted. He baulking up nicely and stands a good chance of topping the worlds best keepers.

Patzi

If Barcelona are interested in DDG, Barcelona may not pay more than £20m, but they do have a world-class squad with special talent. It hasn't worked out great for Cesc or Sanchez and I believe either would be available for around £25m. Both would be great assets to our team if we could agree some sort of swap deal for one of them. Barcelona only paid an initial £24m for Cesc, £10m dependent on appearances, honours etc. Sanchez was very cheap initially if I am not mistaken it's something like £11m upfront and the most he could have cost them was £23m I believe? Although he hasn't played a great deal since his move and with Barcelona not winning the UCL or La Liga last season I doubt he has cost them much more than perhaps £18m so far.

I hope we stick with DDG for another 18 months to see if he comes good, but if Barcelona come knocking in the summer he will want the move back home. Perhaps this is why we are looking at other keepers, perhaps he has indicated that he would return home if he could.

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - (1) Barcelona have their goalkeeper targets and I really don't see a move for De Gea. One is by no means a secret - the other is not really for sharing at this time. (2) Sanchez will leave in the summer - there are three clear possibilities and none involvement Manchester United. All are dependent on other things happening but I would certainly not hold out for a move.}

Patzi

Balking up nicely?

He has a wirey frame similar to Crouch and all the gym work seems to have no effect on him. He has not filled out in any way and that adds to my theory on his attitude of not wanting to adapt.

Jono

Ed002, I do not expect to see Sanchez or Cesc at United, I think Cesc will stay and Sanchez will move to Juventus. I also think that Barcelona would be slightly put off by DDG's time at United, he would be fine in La Liga, but in the UCL teams may be able to capitalise on his obvious flaws. However if Valdez does move on and Courtois and the other candidate are not available then I think DDG will become a candidate.

Can I ask, the keeper that you will not yet name, what is the chances of Barcelona capturing him if they tried to sign him? By not mentioning who it is makes me wonder if it isn't so it upsets rival fans? Cannot imagine they would want Reina as he is in decline. Arsenal's keeper is less than convincing and Joe Hart is safe. Is it Cech by any chance?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - He doesn't play in England Syd and I would think they would need to do something very creative to persuade his club to sell.}

Jono,

How long has been Crouch been in the league again? I guess he must have the worst attitude in the history of the world to not develop a physical presence to go with his height.

Same with Rooney, cannot for the life of me think why we pay him 200k+ a week with that attitude so he could carry around that heavy frame.

Now that we're at it, we should release Paul Scholes and erase all his association with the club indefinitely too. He has been with the club so long, how he cannot be ars*d to learn how to tackle after 15 years is downright embarrassing. Massive attitude problem there.

Some people just cannot control or change aspects of their physique and game, however hard they try. Your desperation to knock De Gea at every turn is pathetic.

Ed002, okay I will not press this any further, I am sure we will read about it soon enough.

Do you think if the two targets fail and Valdez leaves that they may look to DDG?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I have no idea Syd, the world does not revolve around Manchester United.}

No name

What are you on about?

dDG needs to bulk up simple as that!

As a keeper you need to be strong and funnily enough crouch at ten foot 8 has never needed or relied on strength. Rooney on the other hand has always relied on strength and so his stocky build suits his game. As you said its all about individuals and the roles they play and it's down to the individual to make that happen.

So you think it's ok for DDG to stay as lightweight as he is now then yeah?

Good luck to him trying to succeed in this league if he does!

Jono

DDG has defo got bigger and stronger since his move to us. He doesn't get bullied anywhere near what he did for corners and set pieces. He is adapting nicely, and clearly punches when any doubt comes in.. Personally, I think he is awesome already and will only get better and better.. Also, I did state Euro in first post, but it was edited out?..
With regards to Syd's and Ed, I think that Ed may be referring to Neuer?..

Patzi

I need to slim down, any ideas guys and preferably not involving to much movement.

Shahram

I would also assume Ed002 is talking about a German stopper....can't blame us for guessign Ed! ;)

Gav

Ed002, Celtic's Forster had two good games against Barcelona and must have caught the eye of others as well as Hodgson. Do you know of any club's interested in him? Southampton perhaps?

Sydney! {Ed002's Note - I am aware of interest from one club Syd, and that would only come to fruition if the lost their goalkeeper in the summer. Which club has this interest is unimportant at this time.}

21 Jan 2013 08:16:38
I'm not saying that we don't need another midfielder but phil jones did an excellent job as a defensive mid yesterday.

The Devil

Agreed. And could defo blossom too with more and more games! He is a unit when he runs (Yaya-like).. But he is defo a CB for the future..

Patzi

Not good enough technically to be a top quality, permanent CM imo, but a very capable option to call on from time to time. Particularly in bigger games, until we do buy that CM'er we all crave. I think Jones will be a very, very good CB in future.

Gav

21 Jan 2013 05:05:54
Robin van persie very consistent.

21 Jan 2013 02:12:10
Right well to be honest our overall performance was good although it feels a bit galling that three turned into one but nobody could deny the best team gained a point.

Anyway on to DDG.

I watched the game and also the comments after, I also waytched motd and extended highlights on Sly.

So I think I have seen enough to say it was his fault.

Now before everyone rounds up with I'm just anti DDG I'll be the first to admit his save V Dempsey WAS top class and he had excelled at his area of expertise thoughout the game but all the top shot stopping undone by another shambles of a punch attempt.

If we look through all the saves or involvement in the game there are more inconsistencies than many are willing to see.

Good points. Some good saves including IMO one of his best v Dempsey.

Bad points. Still punching (weakly for the goal and even with Vida holding off his man and a free run at a catch still punches it), off lennons weak shot he still palmed it into the onrushing Defoe who was luckily called off side, still not communicating and my god he needs to shout.

I think Neville's correct. He was up for mom but what's now on everyone's lips is another gaff. I'll be bold enough to say it is another gaff. He stretched to a ball he couldn't reach and therefore led to the goal being conceded. If that was begovic you would all be saying he is no better than DDG.

I'm not getting hung up on the fact he has cost us another goal as at least today he earned his blunder with a few saves but if he wants to have any future at us I think he will need to adapt and change the aspects I have highlighted previously as its happening far to often.

And don't say he is 22 he is learning! He has played more top level football at around 100+ games in la Liga and the prem, than begovic yet one has far less mistakes in him than the other.

Bring on the onslaught!

Jono

As soon as he saved that shot from Lennon, and it fell to Defoe, I said 'Jono will think that was a mistake'. Looking for anything to blame him for again Jono? We would've lost only for him.

G.A.G.U.S

I stopped reading after you blamed him.

I'm still awaiting an answer from Sydney about this, so i'll ask you too.

Have you ever tried to punch a ball, which is moving away from you (curl), with three fully grown men back up into you? I bet you haven't, otherwise you'd know that the contact you can get on that ball is very minimal. It wasn't his fault at all.

Ps. People are saying he could have caught the ball...don't be so daft not one person in the world could have caught that ball.

MPez

Oh dear, I decided to read on to see what else you came up with.

The save from Dempsey was a good save, the SS commentators were saying how good it was, and he pushed it wide, what more do you want.

Oh, and, he saved the follow up from Defoe, who didn't know he was offside, so that's a completely invalid point.

MPez

I actually agree with you.

I'm a huge DDG fan but he does need to improve to stay here.

I think he's off to Madrid anyway and I just hope we're looking at Begovic specifically or Smithies.

The Moon.

If say it's De Gea mistake.. then everyone might argue what about the person who allowed the cross first of all... what about Rooney when he had a great chance to put welback through. and what about Welback not cutting the pass to kagawa in the first half...
You can point mistake at everyone in the squad this way.

Overall I think we played very well.

Jono, I watched it again on MOTD, and to be fair, if he hadn't made the punch, no matter how weak, the Spurs attacker had the jump on our defender, and it would have been a goal straight off. As it was, some ball-watching led to the goal in the end.

Agree with you on the weak palm out to Defoe - he needs to start trying to push the ball to the side, rather than straight back out again to on-rushing attackers. Rather concede a corner than a goal.

I do worry more about his physicality and his quite reserved nature, and I've commented on this before. I don't care if he's unorthodox - Schmeichel was hardly orthodox - and I do think he's one of the best shot-stoppers around.

I'm just old-fashioned enough to believe a keeper should be loud, brash and confident. I look at DDG, and a lot of the time I see a scared rabbit caught in the headlights.

Hopefully the confidence will come with experience, and I want to see the lad given a fair crack of the whip. I just have my doubts that he will be able to adjust to the English game, especially with the opposition knowing his weakness, and constantly targeting him with high balls.

StevieK

No point m8
Chris the REDman

Jono,

De Gea did as well as he could have in that situation. If he had stayed on his line and the Spurs player had beaten Vidic to the ball and scored, you would be on here berating him for not coming and punching clear.

And no, this game will not be remembered only for his "gaffe" because he kept us in it all by himself. You cannot focus only his alleged mistake and ignore his brilliance for 91 mins.

Now that you are comparing goalkeepers, I suggest you take a look at Wojciech Szczesny from the game at Stamford Bridge. He is also 22, has played in more games in the league that DDG and has also played in a European Championship. That did not stop him flapping at a couple balls yesterday and making a fool of himself when he came rushing out to Ba, only for Vermaelen to save him. This is the same Szczesny you claim in one of the many keepers in the league who are better then De Gea.

Jono

As you know I have not been his biggest fan and have questioned the fee for someone who is not the finished article. And...I accept his punch could hav been better. However....

1. Sputs had significantly more attempts at goal than we did - nothing to do with DDG.
2. Spurs had significantly more possession than we did - nothing to do with DDG.
3. DDG made 2 stunning saves to prevent goals.

I'm not saying his punch was ok but there seems to be a view that he costs the points - I think the rest of the team are fare more culpable.

AJH

I am becoming a little disappointed in the one person tirade against DDG. He had an excellent game yesterday, we wouldn't have been one nil up in injury time if it hadn't been for him.

In terms of their goal, go back and analyse it, why does Rafael run away from our area, why did Vidic not stand up to their attacker and actually blocks DDG's run at the ball? The cause of the draw was two fold, we didn't get the second goal and we didn't stop dangerous crosses coming into our box in the last minutes when knock downs and these type of goals happen.

Jono should be asking what our defence was doing letting them cross, not continually chipping away at our GK. He should also ask what Welbeck is doing with all the opportunities, continually fluffing his lines, why Nani can't give us an option, where the pace is in our team, why Valencia is so off form and why we have to sacrifice creativity for grit, why Cleverley flatters without commanding the midfield, why we rely so much on Carrick and RVP at the moment. Yet instead blames a young inexperienced keeper and the single minded nature of this is getting beyond normal. We knew he was young, inexperienced but with high potential when we bought him, it will take several years before he adapts, but he will and he will be one of the top keepers. Keepers make errors, they all do and anyone who thinks they can find one who doesn't is deluded.

Our problem was that we sat back on a one goal lead and didn't finish the game off, ok Rooney should have had a penalty but where were our chances in the second half? I watched Madrid last night and that is how to play on the counter, fast and decisive just how we used to. The difference is we don't have the pace or the incisiveness leaving us on a knife edge. We have got away with it in a few games and it caught up with us yesterday.

If anyone is to blame it is the person who sets the tactics, selects the team and buys the players but even saying that a draw there is not the end of the world. DDG should not be blamed on this, there were other more fundamental reasons yesterday, but it's hard to see that if you are utterly focused on one person and trying to find fault at every turn. We should at least give him time.

Red Man

All I am saying MPez is he will be disappointed with that punch and so he should be. IMO he is the best shot stopper on this planet, but unless he improves the rest of his game he will not be at this club for very long. If he can improve he will be the best keeper in the world. Still has a big question mark though.

I do not agree with Jono about his age, 22 is a very young age for a keeper and keepers do not usually peak until their late 20's early 30's. Age is irrelevant, but what isn't irrelevant is his progression as a United player. For me it still remains to be seen if he can get over this final hurdle. I am hoping he can as it's the only thing stopping him from becoming world-class. But on yesterday's evidence he is still struggling at catching the ball.

Sydney!

DDG cannot be blamed for the result, like Red Man says there were far too many crosses going into the box (almost all from the LB position) and our tactics were to invite them onto us and let them have the majority of possession so we can counter attack. No one is blaming DG for the result as he made some world-class saves, all I am doing his highlighting his flaw and simply wondering if he is improving or not. I am less than convinced that he has come to terms with commanding his area, but I do hope he can overcome it as we would have the best goalkeeper in the world at the club.

Sydney!

G.A.G.U.S

It happened again mate. The whistle had gone just before Defoe shot so who knows if he heard it or not but the fact remains he did it again. We are looking for progress in the weaknesses not continuation of these. After three goals conceded in similar fashion he MUST have been working on this, he must have yet from a weak left footed Lennon shot he did it again. If you are noticing it and thinking it now maybe more people should be thinking it is a area that needs looked at now!

MPez

Your question is rubbish mate. There was only Vidic in his way as Evra was not in contact with the other two and the spurs striker was the other side of Vidic and was running towards the back post totally not impeding DDG. This is proven as after it Vida is on the deck whereas the spurs player and Evras momentum has taken them past the area by 1 and 2 yards. Open YT and search for the highlights. Continually go over the sequence and you will see he contacts it with arms bent meaning he has scope to punch properly but just messes it up. He contacts it before the spurs player and more over the whole thing happen 3 yards from his line. what other evidence do you need?

On your other point it was lennons shot and I fully expect a low weak shot to be tipped past the post or held. With the weather yesterday the tip was the sensible option yet he palmed it into Defoe again. It is a valid point as even though Defoe was offside this time doesn't excuse the fact it has happened again. Let me see would it have been vidas fault for not following in?

Moon

Adler or Begovic for me. Syd has mentioned Stegen but maybe an older head is needed then at least they should be fully filled out physically.

SteveK

I agree, bold and brash comes hand in hand with confidence. Not only for the individual but the defense as a unit will breed that in DDG they have a silent guy who commands no authority and they must feel with no noise or voice they are expected to deal with it.

No Name

Your statement says it all but it works both ways. You cannot focus on his good saves and ignore his mistake.

Red Man

I agree and have said that for a change he had earned his mistake yesterday as without the saves previous we could have been looking at 0 points.

I have analysed it mate. Do as I have said previous here and look at it on YT. Rafa followed his man wide on the run it was Toni (I think) that should have covered the LB, the spurs attacker had his arm on top of vidas shoulder hense why he couldn't jump and challenge correctly and that is why he was the only one on the deck after. dDG was only 3 yards from his line, I would expect any keeper ours or not to be dealing with anything that close especially as the only contact happened as he attempted the punch unlike Linders where everyone was hammering him when he had 2 men stopping him getting past. Quite simply that attempt from him was not good and led to the goal.

Our tactics were set up to nullify the exact problem from the first game. Compact the middle and force them to play across the way either by pressing them or playing them wide. That is exactly what happened. Now if the tactics worked for 90 mins you can't start blaming them in the 91st because we concede. The two CBs dealt with almost everything in the air and I would be confident in them doing that v Defoe and Dempsey all day but we need the keeper to provide the needed release of pressure when they can't deal with a situation or two.

There is no guarantee he will become one of the best mate and he certainly won't without adapting his game. He has been here 19 months and still is playing like in Spain. He is not in Spain he will have to get better at crosses and commanding or he will never reach anywhere near world class.

I find it baffling that so many are quick to turn the screw on the rest of the team but fail to see any fault in DDG. There is always an excuse for him. When will it be his fault? Will he need to be 28, still playing at us, fluent in English, with the worlds best defense in front of him before we are allowed to say well maybe he should be doing better.

Ask yourself if that was begovic doing that would you be saying he is not good enough? Yet DDG has played more top level football and has more game exp! If so then basically he is only getting away with it due to his age and can we afford several years of this before he is to become this destined world beater?

A draw is a good result but it was like a kick in the teeth how it came about and I will congratulate DDG on making a good few saves especially the one v Dempsey.

Syd

I do not agree with Jono about his age, 22 is a very young age for a keeper and keepers do not usually peak until their late 20's early 30's. Age is irrelevant,

That statements a bit contradicting is it not?

I understand you went on to talk about development but age is entirely relevant. If he needs years to prove he can't improve then what good is it for us to keep him where he continues to fail in very important areas? We need a keeper who excels in command and dealing with huh balls just as much as a shot stopper so it's a balance of how long do we give him before deciding on his future? IMO there is a time frame on his neck put there by SAF himself and that has around 4 months to roll.

A question to all here.

If SAF cuts his losses this summer what will you all say then? Will you be calling for his head claiming he doesn't know what he is doing or will you back him in his desicion?

Jono

Agree with lots of the pros and cons on the debate. There are always a series of events that lead to goals and you can pick something at the end of the chain or early in the chain and blame a number of different players including some of our advance players who should be back defending in the 92nd minute.

I thought DDG had a good game but still believe he made a mistake on the cross and should have either parried it out for a corner or punched out.

I also agree that DDG will not have a longterm future if he continue to clear crosses this way. No matter how good a shot stopper, SAF is not a forgiving guy and in big games against top opposition the difference between winning and losing can come down to a fine line and he will not tolerate a goalie who can cost him the game.

I also think until he demonstrates he can handle crosses better, teams will keep bombarding us with high balls in to the box as they know there is mistake waiting to happen.

Shahram

Jono, I mean age is irrelevant in terms of a player's development. Player's develop at different ages. Usually for an outfield player the penny drops at around 24/25/26. Some develop before, but few players develop after 26. You could argue that RvP developed around 27/28, but injuries did slow his career down by a couple years. The penny dropped with Falcao and Llorente around 25/26. I never thought Falcao would develop this well. 23 and under is classed as a young player, I think if a player hasn't shown glimpses of brilliance by 25 then he probably will not.

Sydney!

Syd

Your whole point basically says that age is relievent then as if at 22 DDG has not developed fully yet then we can use that as an excuse for him.

IMO the areas we can clearly see as weaknesses are very hard to change as allot is down to personality. If he has been trained to or prefers to punch then it will be difficult to get him to catch. Maybe he isn't comfortable in his own ability with catching? And you can't teach bravery so with him coming through the tough stuff to claim balls and stickin his head where it hurts I'm just not sure he has it in him.

Jono

Jono

Do you remember Schmeichel in his early days?

When he arrived he was 27, his formative years behind him, but he still needed time to settle. Now how old is De Gea, he needs time, all you and similar are doing is giving ammunition to those who want to destroy the confidence of another United goalkeeper. If you and the likes of Hansen succeed then we lose a keeper of real potential, and TV pundits mostly ex Liverpool will love that.

Red Man

Jono, I agree there remains a question mark over him and I am yet to see him improve on it after 18 months. If it is a case of bravery then English football may not be good for him. I still want to see how he develops over the next 18 months, but I genuinely believe he will get just six months unless he starts to improve on his frailties. It's pretty frustrating that we have a keeper with this immense quality, yet struggles with something most keepers can deal with with ease.

Sydney!

Red man

Good 1st reply and I tend to agree with the way you look at it.

Jono

I honestly do see where you are coming from with your worries, I'm pretty sure most of us would like to see DDG deal with high balls better and be more vocal. But I think most of us come from the point of view that he deserves a good chance because 1) he's here til the summer at least an is our no.1 for now, and 2) he's a good young prospect who could become a real top keeper.

His shot stopping is great but I agree he needs to improve other areas.

But do you think you may be over-analysing it by looking into each game in so much detail? He's not going to show major improvement on a weekly basis, it will be more gradual. Perhaps it would be useful to give him a run of 5-8 games (at least) then see whether you can see an improvement at the end of that? I'm not bing funny or anything just think we can become bogged down by over-analysing specific games. If we followed this approach then some would say we need to sell Rooney, Nani, Valencia, Evra, DDG and quite a few more in January.

One disadvantage DDG has over others is he's a keeper so there's nowhere to hide. And as a squad we rely on him heavily. For this reason alone, I don't think he will be given the patience that an outfield player would be afforded. But whilst he's our number 1 for now I think we should get behind him rather than getting on his back after each game.

Gav

20 Jan 2013 22:42:53
Can we read anything into the team going to QatarWe've had loads of rumours in the past about Qatari royalty buying the club or even paying off some of the Glazers PIK loans in the past?Is this trip something more than a team break away in the sun. {Ed002's Note - I would not read too much in to it.}

I think it's some clever marketing... Wouldn't do no harm to seal some sponsership from the mega wealthy Qatar.

Patzi