Manchester United Banter Archive November 21 2012

21 Nov 2012 23:37:22
Just too say I'd give anything to see rondalo come back home:( any chance it could happen? Also are the zaha rumors true, and I really think we should push for hummels, best young centre back in world and would really solid up our back 4!
LiamA

21 Nov 2012 23:08:29
Mexes goal tonight is far better than Ibrahimovic's, just saying..........

Andy S

There have been rumours that has linked us with him in a january move and i believe he would be quite cheap. Ed002 would know if it was true.

Shahram {Ed002's Note - I would not hold your breath.}

21 Nov 2012 22:53:06
Not sure what has made me laugh more tonight, city going out, that penalty decision or that thing growing on Michael Owens face!
I really hope he is making money for charity

Karllap

Its MO-vember(Moustache-November)

ALDUtd

I know what it is and why it's there but it doesn't make it look any less stupid or funny!

Karllap

21 Nov 2012 22:11:10
If there was the slightest chance that we could have Ronaldo back at Old Trafford then it is a chance we must take. If we stand aside and let someone else get him then we give them a massive advantage. He made a fool out of Kompany , a very good defender. Took me back to that day against Bolton when a young wiry lad showed a talent I havent seen the like of before at Old Trafford.

Red Man

21 Nov 2012 21:28:02
A quick thanks to Marco Reus and El Shaarawy for popping up with their teams first scorer as a ten spot on a 35-1 double has landed an early Xmas pressie haha

Oh and Benitez? Haha we could get second after all!

Jono

We will win the league Jono mate. 2nd at the very worst. I think we will finish 8-10 points ahead of Chelsea.

Sydney!

Oooft Syd! That's a bold statement.

I'm never the optimist but with Rafa in charge it's defo possible now haha.

And that's a FACT!

Jono

Sydney

Even with a full squad without the injures, I believe we will come up short again unless we do something in January in the midfield area.

Man City has a better team than us and evident by last night against RM you need a lot of pace as a team to give them trouble, which we have non and we don't"t have CR7 type player either to create havoc.

I would not write off Chelsea as they are very capable of picking up a couple of strikers in the January transfer window and will be very competitive.

Shahram

Shahram,

You do know Chelsea have facto Benitez in charge don't you? They were struggling as it was, now I think they have no chance.

You are correct city look better than us but I think we have the ability to put a long run together after Christmas. Looking at the fixtures between now and the new year even if we lose to city I would expect us to be at least level with them and have already played Chelsea, Liverpool and city away from home.

I think we need a midfielder in January despite fergie not usually doing any business then but if not I still think we can win the league. Remember people
on here were saying 3 months ago we wouldn't finish top 4 or get through in the champions league!

GDS

GDS

I was never one of them and always believed we would qualify from our group. The other teams are light weights to be frank and always also believed a top 3 in the league.

I have to admit prior to seeing the draw for CL, I was praying we did not get a group like City or even the Juve as I am not sure we would be good enough to qualify from those 2 groups.

I know the fixtures are pretty kind to us but it's the manner we have played against lesser teams and hence I don't automatically count on us picking up 3 points along the way just because on paper we should be doing so and quite frustrated lately. My TV is on a short leash of life at the moment :)

I know it sounds terrible and I do not wish them harm but Aguero and Silva is what makes city tick and when those 2 guys are fit and playing they are a very good team and have good balance. Although Mancini does his best to screw them up with the variations he plays at the back LOL.( someone should run the stats and see what their results are like over the last 12-18 months when those 2 play).

Our strikers are great but our midfield even with Anderson and Cleverly and Carrick is SOOOO average at best.

Needless to say Giggs and fletcher to me are gone and Scholes is good for 20 minutes in the second half.

I know we will grind a lot of results because of the spirit of the team and the manager but but will come up short in the big games and city will win it again.

A couple of January moves even one obviously changes things but SAF is too stubborn and will not buy anyone in January under the disguise that we now have everyone back and good enough.

I know it sounds crazy but someone like Sneider would make a big difference if he is the only player that is realistically available as most of the guys we are dreaming/talking about will not be available given the fact that their teams in the running for major honors and revenues that come with it, so why would you sell?

The other thing that is going to be quite relevant is with City and potentially Chelsea out of CL, they will play a lot less games and will be completely focused on the league, whilst we will be juggling a weak midfield group in two competitions and SAF will always play his strongest team in the Champions league meaning Carrick and Cleverly will get the nod in CL and Giggs and Scholes will end up playing league games.

I hope I am wrong and we see a major shift in our performance on the field.

Watching Some of the games last 2 night, I am envious of quite a few midfields.

Shahram

21 Nov 2012 21:16:42
So Arbeloa's foul is a penalty yet the foul by Javi Garcia just outside the box right in front of the 5th official or whatever he is and nothing happened..... Please get some consistency in european games.

21 Nov 2012 20:16:52
Simple. Let's just buy Dortmund. fantastic to watch. Good in every dept!
NoMidfield

You are being greedy
Goetze, Reus, Lewandowski, gundagen, Bender, Hummels will do :)

Shahram

Schmelzer and Pisczek wil do aswell.

21 Nov 2012 20:04:54
Real opening up City at will. Fantastic to watch they must be the quickest team in the world on how they can shift gears and go the from defense in to offensive mode.

Shahram

21 Nov 2012 19:59:51
I am sorry but 12 minutes in watching Madrid and I am about crying over Ronaldo he is phenomenal he goes by players like there not even there.

If company is suppose to be one of the best defenders around, it is scary how good cr7 is watching what he did to him earlier.

What a shame he is gone complete different class to anyone we have.

Shahram

21 Nov 2012 19:45:59
This should be fun watching Ronaldo against Maicon

shahram

I think Maicon and Anderson have been hanging out at the same Diner. LOL

21 Nov 2012 17:37:31
loan move for Drogba in January? {Ed002's Note - He will be off to the African Cup of Nations.}

Lol, that would have been bad timing then!

Gav

21 Nov 2012 15:45:17
rafa aka fat waiter is back ,that could be fun

would not be surprised if some liverpool fans now support chelsea

nikz

It'll be interesting to see Torres' form now that rafas back.

19-20 MUFC

21 Nov 2012 15:18:01
Cleverley plays the same way that Xavi plays.

Shappy........................Thank you Shappy I don't think a post has made me laugh so much for a long time. Just one piece of advice though you need to cut down on those mushrooms my man no matter how much magic they make you spout. Once again thank you it was brilliant. I AM KLOOT

Haha.... I can not agree more. I do not think Cleverley is ever going to be good enough for United he is so over rated.

Actually Kloot i think Shappy is right. They play in the same position and they do the same job, keep the ball moving. He has the same style.

But that's where comparisons stop. The difference in class is huge. Xavi can dribble, can create the killer pass and can absolutely boss possession. Cleverley cant. That's the difference between a worldclass player like Xavi and an overhyped english talent like Cleverley.

Mick

Cleverley does play a similar role to that of Xavi, just not as effective as the maestro.

Sydney!

Nobody said that Cleverley was as good as Xavi. Put a bit of thought into it RFT and you might just see what Shappy means. To me, Cleverley is Carrick's long term replacement in keeping the flow of the game going.

TK-Red

Cleverley is like a crab who runs from side to side playing 5-10 yard balls from left to right. He then runs away from his pass and then runs back and does the same thing again.
Yes he works hard and always shows 100% comittment but he just isn't good enough.
If Man United are serious about winning another European Cup then this kid isn't the answer, neither is Anderson, Carrick or Fletcher who i felt sorry for last night because he will never get back to his high tempo game again because of his illness.
Surely Fergie must see this lack power, driver and creativity in these positions?

Simmo

It was a comparision on the role he plays rather than his ability. Xavi isn't a defensive midfielder nor is he the player who gets into the box and gets in amongst the goals and assists all that often. What Xavi does is controls the tempo of the game with his passing(which is mostly sideways btw) he passes and moves to create space and opportunities for his team mates.

This is the ROLE Cleverley plays and the type of player he will become. I doubt he'll ever be as good as Xavi, but he will play in a similar way.

Sorry if you fail to get the concept.

Shappy

Kloot, surely if you re-read his post there is not much wrong with it? Nowhere does it say Cleverly is or will be as good as Xavi. So if he does not 'play the same way' (i.e. in terms of style, not quality) then how would you describe the way he plays? People often make comparisons in terms of 'style of play' between players, it's not that big a statement IMO

Having said that I am not convinced Cleverly will ever be good enough to be one of the 1st names in the starting 11, but we shall see!

Gav

Well explained, Shappy, lol. Don't worry I understood first time! Perhaps you should explain yourself fully in future though ; )

Gav

Shappy, you say:-

"I doubt he will ever be as good as Xavi"
Believe me he won't be even get anywhere near Xavi's level of football. Wake up, we need two new central midfielders in order to compete in Europe at the top level.
I will go on record here and say if we get a decent team in the last 16 we will get torn apart due to the lack of pace, power and creativity in our central midfield area plus our ball retention is crap. We struggle to make 10 yard passes in Europe it's been shocking!

Simmo

We can't have the best player in every position all the time. The best team wins not the best group of individuals. I think Cleverley could form part of a top midfield if we signed the right player to play alongside him and if we use the right tactics.

Everyone praises Dortmund but they don't have any players who could be considered in the top 5 of their position in the world, yet they have topped the toughest group against teams who have far better players. The right players and the right tactics are what are vital.

Thats why I feel only one midfielder is needed especially when you look at the talent coming through(Tunnicliffe, Powell, Petrucci and Lingard plus all the younger lads who look even better).

Shappy

21 Nov 2012 13:43:39
How many people would like to see Vidal in the middle of the park for us??

Last night was a truly outstanding showing from the Chilean; and here are the statistics which prove his dominance on the pitch.

* No player touched the ball more times than Vidal, 82. Mata closest with 76.

* Vidal won 100 per cent of all his aerial battles.

* Vidal completed more passes than any other player on the pitch; 63.

* Vidal had the highest pass completion percentage of any player, 94 per cent.

* No Juventus player made more combined tackles and interceptions than Vidal, with Ramires of Chelsea making just one more.

So you get the picture, Vidal was too much for Chelsea to handle, and for those tracking his progress it is no surprise.

So how much would he cost and how much would he improve our mid-field...???

Oxred

He'd improve it considerably, add some stability as the midfiel has looked a little frail defensively this season. Id say maybe 30 million, probably too much for us to fork out for one player unfortunately

I have always been an admirer of him, he is such a great player and he can also take some on the bets penalties I have ever seen. I would pay anything under £30 million for him, a summer of him and Hummels would be a dream.

-JakeW

Arturo Vidal is single handedly the best central midfielder outside the Barca team in my opinion and would be an insane buy and I really was gutted when we did not go in for him when he left to Juventus. I do not know how much he would cost but at a guess maybe £30million or Nani and £10-15million.

Oxred

The most annoying thing is he has improved a bit but not massively in his one year at Juve so this was all available for 14m last summer. It is unbelievable that a team with a midfield like ours was not looking at him just over a year ago especially for that price.

I get more and more annoyed when I see a link with him now as either the scouts in Germany are not doing their jobs or SAF doesnt have eyes. Even more so when SAF is fine spouting the no value pish!

It comes as no surprise to me when he is playing CL football in a successful team that so many are now taking notice and he is enjoying some personal success. I'm certain around the 40m mark Juve would value him at and rightly so!

Jono

Vidal and mountinho would be a great combo imo.both great box to box players.

Jono.. I agree and with the exception of Powell we have not brought a central midfield player since Anderson....

what is going on ??

Oxred

21 Nov 2012 13:10:13
Ed002 you replied to one post saying you're not the only one who wants Pep as the next Manchester United manager. Is that a hint? That SAF wants him or someone high up in the united ranks does? Or was it just a general statement?

Thanks. {Ed002's Note - There are those at Old Trafford who would like to see Guardiola as the next manager.}

I really hope not.... I can not stand how one dimensional he is and just tactically awful. I want to see him at a team with less talent than Barca first to see if he does anything different. Klopp, Blanc and Mourinho would be my top 3 then 2 outsiders would be Solskjaer and Moyes.

Rafa Benitez til the end of the season then Pep to take over? I cannot see why Chelsea would want Rafa full-time as he is clueless.

Sydney!

21 Nov 2012 12:33:29
Josh king will join Blackburn tomorrow on loan with permanent transfer to be completed in January. #insidecarrington
Neil

21 Nov 2012 11:40:42
Bring back Beckham! Someone who can cross a football. would still do an excellent job for us!

We already have 4 players past it, i think we're stocked.

Even though i'd love for Beckham to finish his career with us and stay part of the club, i fear that if ferguson got him back he would play much more than he should.


Mick

Sheesh, come on people. Beckham shouldn't be anywhere near our team. Top bloke, great servant, but 5 years at least too late

21 Nov 2012 10:35:36
Chelsea sack roberto di matteo...suprise 2 see that i thnk dey wer waitng for d chance 2sack him he did wel for thm stil afta 4 poor games he was sackd suprise 2 see tht... But pep may takeovr chelsea n tht wld be a sad evnt for me bcs i want pep 2 be our manager

Sid_mumbai {Ed002's Note - You are not the only person who wants Guardiola to be the next Manchester United manager.}

I do not want Guardiola any where near Man United thanks.... He is tactically inept and has only one way of football and can not change it as we seen with Barca... You look at the team he had available and he never change the tactics and only went from 4 at the back to 3 and thats it.....

I just put money on two candidates for next Chelsea job. Harry at 5-1 and deschamps at 33-1.

Any chance eds? ;-)

Jono {Ed002's Note - What were the odds on Guardiola?}

Hoping Guardiola snubs Chelsea. Personally I want them to get Benitez. But Mourinho has been in London, conincidence? Hmm.

Fresh!

I forgot about Deschamps.. not a bad shout for an outsider (good thinking Jono)...... I have no idea why but I have a strange feeling Shevchenko as an outside choice then there is obviously the well known like Benitez, Grant, Guardiola etc..... I know Abramovich would never go for someone not world renowned so to speak but Steve Clarke imo if returned to Chelsea could do a great job he really is very god tactically and tightens up the defence.

Ed

Pep's odds were 2-1 latest but have shortened twice since the market opened.

Jono

21 Nov 2012 09:22:52
Harsh on Di Matteo, in my opinion. Not even winning the CL can save your job at that club!

G.A.G.U.S

Its unreal , Champs League and FA cup can't keep you in a job, roman wee toys arent entertaining, so sack the manager,disgrace imo, feel for Di Matteo and fear the appointment of Pep

Giants14 {Ed002's Note - It is current results that are important rather than what has happened in the past.}

I know right but who will they bring in... Pep I think will be reluctant this far into a season and then there is not really any managers available unless they punt and go for someone like Klopp or Mourinho. The only free agents that would even be half decent are Rafa, Redknapp or maybe someone until the end of the season like Grant.

Ed02.... Surely his amazing end of last season counts for something and he hasnt been that bad this season Chelsea are in the title race and had a tough group in the CL... The one flaw to all of RDM's plans was his awful decision to not sign a striker which I think may have been Abramovich's reluctance because of the money spent on Torres. {Ed002's Note - It is a results not sentiment driven business. The manager at Chelsea is no more than one input to the transfer process - there are others who are much more influential in terms of transfers. It was also not for trying that a striker was not signed.}

Did Di Matteo REALLY win the UCL? Like Roman said, it was a fluke. I think last season's Chelsea team could pick itself and obviously Roman feels Di Matteo wasn't the reason Chelsea won the UCL so wants a better and more experienced manager to take over.

Sydney!

Ed002

I agree, football is a result based business but with that philosophy not many managers would last too long. Chelsea are screaming out for a manager like Fergie and Wenger, stability is huge for the top clubs.
Wenger hasnt won anything in 6-7 years but arsenal have stuck with him because what he has done for the club.

Ancelotti - league and cup winner - sacked
Di Matteo - Champs League and fa cup winner - Sacked

Where does it end?

Chelsea are a great side and no doubt have went through a terrible month and will end up out of the champions league but who's to say they couldnt go on and win the domestic treble?

Its all about RA, he wants success straight away and will sack and hire flavour of the month to get it - Benetiz to become the new manager? i laughed out loud.

Utd and Arsenal have worked for years building teams and generating success, teams like City and Chelsea open the cheque and want it now, Di Matteo steadied the ship last year and won the CL the one trophy RA dreamt off - he then has a few bad games and gets the boot? Disgrace from Chelsea IMO

Giants14 {Ed002's Note - You may wish to check how much Manchester United has spent over the years to get and sustain success. Managers are no more than transient employees of a club - Ferguson and Wenger are exceptions to that. The decision to remove Ancelotti was made at the New Year and I was surprised that Di Matteo was given the permanent job at all. Football is big business and on-field success is important. Like it or not, if something isn't working one needs to move on from it.}

A results driven business, yes, but if you're making a decision on whether to sack your manager based on 4 bad results - then no manager would make it through a whole season!

I never thought RDM would be given the permanent job and was surprised when he was, but surely he then deserves a full season?

'IF' it's Rafa as a stop gap measure then what exactly are they expecting to achieve? Because unless he ends up winning the PL (unlikely) then I don't really see what there is to be achieved

Having said that, it will be interesting to see how Rafa and AB's relationship blossoms, given the former's reputation as a trouble maker with owner's and the latter's reputation for taking no sh!t from manager's!

So Ed2, would you be happy with Rafa as a stop gap?

Gav {Ed002's Note - It is not a decision based on four bads results. The team has not won for seven games and the question will always be asked "is this the right guy to take the team forward?". As for Benitez or whoever ends up seeing out the season, I can't see it will concern me too much either way. It's only a game.}

Fair enough Ed2 I admire your nonchalance! Personally I don't see the benefit of Rafa over RDM right now, although I agree he would always need replacing in the long term. I guess if Rafa hits a run of 7 bad games by mid january we may see Redknapp on a 4 month contract ; )

Gav

21 Nov 2012 09:18:30
Looks like sugar daddy has fired another manager. Honestly this guy is outta his mind. On that note, even though the glazers suck the money out of our club, SAF being in charge of the club without much of their interference is kinda good for us.
RD27

21 Nov 2012 04:25:51
When you're playing tough away matches like this, where a team is very solid you need a spark - I can't help but feel we don't have one. We need that guy back who does a couple of steppovers, beats a man and bangs one in like Ronaldo did for us, like Hazard does for Chelsea and like Neymar does for Santos. The question is, who?

Fresh!

Nani ;)

Percy

No Percy.... Just NO!

I think a team like this would work.

______Fletcher____Carrick________
__Cleverley___Rooney___Anderson__
______________RVP______________

When Kagawa gets fit put him in where Cleverley is and put Cleverley in for one of Fletcher or Carrick the latter preferably.

James Rodriguez is the next big thing IMO.

Sydney!

Percy, thats embarrasing. And no namer, that would be an awful team. Fletcher and Carrick aren't explosive enough on the ball. They delay the pass too long, remind me of the last time that you saw them play an immediate first touch pass? Fletcher has always been a squad player, it shows how poor our midfield is when people are calling for him to start all the time.

Fresh!

I agree with you Syd.. James Rodriguez and Eden Hazard are the two best players around that age by a country mile and I have been wishing for Rodriguez to be signed for 2-3 years he is absolute class imo and he has been playing behind the striker aswell this season which means he is more versatile than before he is just getting better and better.

20 Nov 2012 23:55:39
I thought fletcher was great tonight, does no one else agree that our 2 man midfield should be carrick and fletcher, in front of them, Rooney, Kagawa (or cleverley) and valencia with the striker being RVP (of course). And if anderson could lose about 2 stone, him insead of fletcher???

Valencia cant play in a interchanging 3 why not for once play Anderson in his natural position or failing that Nani.
CardiffRED

I thought Flether was garbage personally.
Never got involved in the game and he got caught dozing on the ball a few times and i seem to remember a few careless passes as well.

Simmo

20 Nov 2012 23:33:29
All that needs to be said tonight is we played well, fair play to Galatassary. They were fighting for their European lives and wanted it a bit more - that's all. CFR Cluj at home will be the perfect time for more youth to be introduced as the atmosphere will be better for them to beging their EU careers.

Fresh!

20 Nov 2012 23:16:51
(Banter please)

Is it just me or does Powell remind you of Oscar? Amazing players the two of them. Oscar will grow faster imo due to first team game time.

I was thinking the same. If Powell was there in Chelsea instead of Oscar he would prolly get all the games like Oscar and he is 2 years younger with great attitude. But still he will be great player, staying around first team with the likes of Scholes and Rooney it will only do him good. I wondered if it would be good idea for him to go to loan until Jan prolly to Shefield utd since Ross Barkley(He was playing most of the games and was prolly the best player) was called back by everton or and Championship Team(which is close manchester) where he can get first team experience.
All in all I m very much looking forward to Nick Powell( Pow Pow Pow)shinning at theater of dreams.

Red Samurai

So come on lads - is he Oscar or is he Kaka?

Puzzled

Puzzled, he's 18 and he might turn out to be just as good as any.

Mick