Manchester United Banter Archive October 21 2014

 

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21 Oct 2014 22:35:09
For me the most worrying thing about the WBA game is Luke Shaw. His ability to read the game will improve with age but right now it is of a very poor standard. The worst part though is his ability going forward is non existent. Every time he picked up the ball in the final he either passed it backwards or hit an aimless cross into the box. I would pick Rojo at LB for the big games coming up and have either Blackett or Evans at LCB partnering Jones because right now Shaw just isn't good enough.

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22 Oct 2014 00:03:22
Ozzy,

One of luke shaws strong points is his ability in the final 3rd, he didn't have his best game going forward last night, in fact he was quite poor, but with a player as young as him you have to accept that sometimes he will have bad games, it doesn't mean we write him off and say he can't cross or play a final ball. I assure you he can, I've seen it a lot.

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He needs time, like what's been said he's young and at a new club with a new style of play. really don't get this one bad game and you're out mentality at the minute

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22 Oct 2014 09:40:29
I'm sure his game will develop, infact I'm certain it will. Right now though, I don't feel he's good enough to start. He's played 3 games so far and he cost us a goal on Monday & gave away a penalty against Everton. He will be, but right now he's not good enough to start the big games coming up.

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Luke shaw will be the best left back around in years to come i have no doubt, at the moment he's struggling but give the poor lad some time please, he's a young kid, has a big price tag on his shoulders for a left back, he's gone from playing with decent players like lallana, lovren, and lambert (sorry dippers) to world class superstars like di maria and falcou so he's obviously under huge amounts of pressure to perform. give him some time to bed into the side and we will see why he's spoken about so highly and why we paid all that money for a left back. don't forget evras debut for us and how good he went on to be.

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21 Oct 2014 16:44:04
I know I'm in the minority, but I am going to sum this situation up as neatly as I can and leave off for a week or so:

The day before LVG signs for Man Utd you are given a sheet of paper, it shows you the players we will sign, the funds we have to strengthen further and the fixtures we have been handed for the first 8 games - would your anticipated point tally achieved be 12 or less?

(likely to be the same after 10 games being realistic, but let's stick with what we know).

The other side of the piece of paper shows the results and the league table. It then says would you hire this man and pay him £5mil+ a year to achieve this? It also throws in the Capital Cup result as a bonus hint to make the right decision.

How many of you would say yes, this is the correct decision hire LVG he is the man for us?

Lets face it, we are in a downward spiral and big decisions need to be taken. The transition rubbish just doesn't cut it when you have examples of other teams with far inferior budgets, players and infrastructure playing and integrating better.

I say bring in SAF with G. Neville assisting, with Neville taking over at the end of the season. LVG will never admit he is wrong and that is a dangerous man to have running our side, we have no more aces to give him. Denial will cripple us, we care so much and want to believe in our manager that it is blinding many of you into seeing things that just don't exist.

His philosophy is hocus pocus, its a football Ponzi scheme. At least you could see Moyes crumbling as he floundered, this guy is almost having fun as he disembowels us.

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Oh for goodness sake, some of our fans are shockingly embarrassing.

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Sack lvg after 8 games.
Im not his biggest fan but this is ridiculous.

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21 Oct 2014 17:35:29
Utter tosh, and I for 1 really hope u are in the minority here mate.

Tell me a manager in football that could guarantee a return to the top after the last 2 years we have had? LVG builds teams that leave a legacy, he leaves clubs with an identity.

I'm not claiming he's doing a Stella job atm but there are many factors behind that and over time I have faith he will get it right.

Why Dnt u start these petty posts with an example of who u would of trusted with 150m to build a team and a identity for years to come, klopp? Great manager but hardly competing with bayern in his own league? Beilsa? The bloke losses his cool after a season, mour? Great manager but not a popular choice with the hierarchy and never an option.

The lads kept going last night, kept the belief they would get the goal and showed the hunger to do so.

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21 Oct 2014 17:40:38
Stop talking aload of tosh, its still very early days, there is a lot of new players, and players been here 6 months or so, and also players like Fellani that has hardly played.
Out of last nights starting 11, 6 are new players, 1 (Mata is less than a year into the side), and Januzaj is a relatively inexperienced player, leaving De Gea, Rafa, Jones, and RVP which have played together over a year, they need time to gel. Look how long it took city and chelsea to gel, they didn't turn up with spending millions on new players and win every game in sight, these things don't happen over night.

Give the guy a chance, he hasn't fluked his way through Europe building top sides he's done it because he's a top manager.

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21 Oct 2014 17:47:04
So you want to bring in someone who has retired and would have no interest in returning and a TV pundit

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Nonsense. Give LVG some time, you can see that he has a vision / plan in place for the team and it will take time.

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I thought we played well last night, it was 2 errors that cost us last night from players who lvg didn't sign.

People go on about sir Alex returning. he's RETIRED just get over it, he's never going to come back

Have some faith for gods sake n stop moaning every week beast

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This really is the worst post I've ever seen on any football forum. Even if we finished 5th this season I would hope/expect LVG to remain. He's a top class experienced manager who given time WILL create a top team.

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Ok so you would all still make the deal and sign LVG knowing what we know now. Ridiculous.

All you can talk about is transition and his experience. Nobody is talking about how progress is being made with any evidence, its just lame excuses that would never be used to support Moyes for example.

His performance has been shocking, his plan keeps changing - why are you all oblivious to this? His plan is to keep changing his plan until he chances upon something that works. Anybody could do that, just because he followed an inept manager you all think this is the right guy, it's not logical.

None of you know his plan, all you know is what we see on the pitch and it hasn't improved since pre-season and he has spent a fortune,

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There's been some stupid posts on the internet over the years. But this one is definitely up there.

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21 Oct 2014 18:50:55
Seriously beast give us your alternatives who you would of trusted with the money who had the experience to use it well! And Dnt say saf because that's just embarrassing yourself further

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Only piece I would agree with in beasts original post was gary neville as the assisant manger knows a bit more than giggs for sure

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21 Oct 2014 18:54:07
Beast, how many games has he been able to pick, what most would consider, his best 11? and how many games on the run have these players played together? The answer to both is 0 as far as I can remember. The injuries we have had has been a disaster to a new manager coming in and trying to get a team with 6 new faces playing together, in his style. Would these FACTS have been on your piece of paper, or would they have been conveniently left off?

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This is one of the worst post i've ever seen on here, and i was witness to Sydney's constant defending of Cleverley and comparing Smalling to a young Rio ( " closest thing to a young Rio out there" ), Percy's crush on Nani, and pretty much anything Kloot had to say.

Frankly this is embarrassing. Are you really using the Moyes excuse ? Take a couple of bad results, this will surely be the enough to judge a manager will it not ? No mention of a new team, new manager, heavy injuries and a ridiculous luck so far. Variables are irrelevant, only the results matter ( it's not even like we have a good data base )

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Terrible post IMO. You obviously have a problem with the manager.

The current side is much better than the team Moyes' managed.

LVG is as good as it gets. The guy has already transformed the team into a side that has the potential to be up there with the best of them.

We have built a new side in one transfer window. 6 new players have come into the team, plus the academy players. We have also had an horrendous injury list, which has impaired the manage's ability to pick his strongest side on a consistent basis. Yet, we are in touching distance of the top 4 and have played some excellent stuff.

We absolutely dominated the game yesterday. We should have won. I am pretty sure that if Falcao started up-front, he would have got on the end of some of the those exquisite crosses from Di Maria.

I for one fancy us to beat Chelsea on Sunday. I suspect Falcao is going to have a blinder.

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21 Oct 2014 19:27:59
I think i'm experiencing Deja Vu!! Get the plane in the air for Sunday Beastie.

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This is as embarrassing as a post can get. Beast, did LvG nick your moth at the local discotheque? To be calling for a managers head after 8 games is pathetic and your dream team of Sir Alex and Neville is never going to happen. Neville as a manager of Man Utd is daft. He talks a lot of sense on the telebox but that doesn't make him a good manager. Rolf Harris looked good with kids on the telebox but I wouldn't let him babysit my kids!

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LvG was not my first choice but he has my 100% support.
He is trying to change our culture, our way of playing from a wasteful direct style to one which has brought success in the big competitions, a style we have bemoaned not having many times on here. How many games have we said we need to control possession? I see the seeds he is planting, control the ball control the game, Barca took us and everyone else to the cleaners with it, Bayern Munich did it. What have they both got in common? LvG planted the seeds.
Last year we had someone who didn't have the vision to change our direction, now we do and now is the time to hold our nerve. Laughable really, with the attitude of giving such a top manager only 8 games we would have had hundreds of managers in the 70's

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I don't regard changing tactics from game to game as a problem. Any manager worth his salt will do so depending on the opposition and the players available to him, and will also adjust them during the game depending on what's going on.

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21 Oct 2014 19:48:47
When I posted down the page how embarrassing you are after a game we don't win and you come across as pathetic and childish, did you then dream up this post hoping for a similar reaction?

All your posts down the page are as embarrassing as this, and this one is just ridiculous.

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If you have read anything about Van Gaals past you will know that this is in keeping and was predicted by certain people. He is bringing a completely new ethos and style to the team on top of new players that need to gel.
Yes we should have more points, yes the start to the season was relatively easy. however that does not detract from the belief in van gaal and his philosophy for our club. It will take time. will be painful but ultimately it will come with some success

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21 Oct 2014 21:47:53
In my humble view it is too early to make a judgement on van gaal. He has spent a lot of money, and to be fair it has improved us going forward. We are exciting to watch where as last season I found our slow play tedious. My issue is we are awful defending. We really should have bought 2 world class cb's and a Dm.

The problem is the funds available are finite, the world class players have to be available and want to come. I am a little concerned that it has been suggested that we are sailing close to the FFP limits. Not sure that can be accurate in terms of expenditure to income, but I can see it being an issue on the wages front.

Blind has been excellent, Di Maria wonderful, Herrera an improvement on what we had. Shaw has failed to shine, same with rojo. Falcao's movement has been great, seems to have lost a yard of pace. I would say all the players look a little light weight/ lacking in power. Chelsea will be telling. I suspect we will be out muscled and run ragged.

With the defenders we have I think 4th will be a real achievement. I have a feeling Chelsea will score 4 on Sunday. Hazard, schurle, Oscar, Willian and fabergas will run our defence all over the place. I don't want it to be true, but I can see us getting only 1 point from Chelsea, City and arsenal.

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21 Oct 2014 21:59:35
Oh my Dear God, Mr Positivity strikes again

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Simeone would have been a good call. We have gone for a footballing dinosaur, who has a habit of half doing a job then walking away or being booted because people have had enough of him.

We needed a quality CB, we needed a CM enforcer, neither were signed. Everyone wants the team to gel, but how can it if what they work on in training keeps changing from week to week because he keeps messing with the formation for games against mid-table fodder.

I know its our duty to support our team regardless, but I can't stand this pussy footing around the issue. It's a serious business and he keeps making error after error, not sacking him now is only delaying the inevitable or allowing us to drift from game to game.

The very fact that you all think I am spouting rubbish just goes to show how powerful the mirage is about this guy who has done absolutely nothing positive since joining the club with almost infinites resources and support.

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21 Oct 2014 22:21:53
Mid table fodder? How disrespectful to west brom. He changed the team so that we had more men in midfield against a team who play 3 in midfield. If he hadn't have done we probably would have lost. You seem to have no clue what the hell you are talking about, I would suggest a short break, maybe until May.

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The very fact that you want LVG sacked after 8 games shows how little you know about football.

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Sack the manager already? Wow nothing you say will ever be taken seriously again!!

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21 Oct 2014 22:50:19
Lol u have got to love the fact in his head all of US are the only ones that can't see it, I swear he is just an attention seeking child now.

Simone? Really? U would rather put a novice in terms of years served, being in only his 3rd year over a man who many a great player and clubs credit there careers and success too? Crazy!
Have a look where ath Madrid are in la liga.

Grow up lad.

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So where will WBA finish GDS2?

How did we get on with our change of formation to accommodate the maestros in the West Brom midfield?

Is this seriously progress from Swansea or Moyes?

We did no look exciting yesterday. We looked good for periods against QPR and Leicester - recently promoted teams who are also going through mass transition.

LVG is not your mate, it is not your duty to look to excuse his errors. He will be gone long before we all stop watching our team, so just take the blinkers off. I'll sign off now on this, but will be proven correct.

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I'm going to sign off on this, you're clueless beast. And will be proven right.

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21 Oct 2014 23:46:37
Beast, you are the only person on here who makes me not want to bother sometimes. What utter CRAP you spout out week after week. We are 8 games in, with a side that has to intergrate 7 new players, from different countries and different league , a new manager, we have had endless injuries and have hardly had a chance to start our strongest 11, and your already calling for his head. Bring back SAF you say. Do you not hold fergi partly responsible for this mess we find ourselves in? Who did he replace Keane with? Who did he replace scholes with? Our midfield has been non existent for years, who did he bring in as cover for the aging Vidic, rio and evra. Was it jones, smalling and Buttner? Players we all deem not good enough?

This was never going to be an overnight fix, not matter who came in. Before this transfer window hand on heart from our squad who would make Chelsea and city's match day? Rvp Rooney and ddg, and mata maybe. The squad has deteriorated year on year, and we now find ourselves in a position where we need to rebuild.

You need to pull yourself together. If we go and sign a CB possibly 2, and a cdm which I'm sure we will, we will have a fantastic squad again, and once they all gel together we will be challenging, but this season 4th has to be the minimum. I'll take 4th all day long. And be happy with that.

Get behind LvG. I can't wait to see u eat humble pie.

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22 Oct 2014 00:01:30
Beast,

You are an attention seeking child, when you are the only one with an opinion and everybody is laughing at you it's generally time to accept you are wrong. I would imagine west brom will finish in the top 10 and take some points off the other top teams this season. City lost at home to stoke this season, nobody was calling for the manager to be sacked.

If you wanted attention then you got it mate, but your overreaction to defeats is what I would expect from a 10 year old. Oh hang on, it wasn't even a defeat!

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22 Oct 2014 09:37:35
32, disagree's and counting, surely that is a record lol

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22 Oct 2014 11:16:55
He's not even agreed with himself Chris!

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22 Oct 2014 15:39:54
Even the scousers that frequent this page Dnt agree lol!!! One of the craziest posts I've ever seen gds and we've had a few over the years.

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22 Oct 2014 16:24:12
Before the WBA game we were 4th, which isn't too bad considering the amount of money other top teams spent this season AND last season while we had dithering dave and Woodword mucking about. I mean more than the results have you actually watched us playing? It's a joy to watch compared to last season, moving the ball about faster, with more possession. The defence is still sketchy but we haven't really had a chance to sign a top notch CB have we? You're showing yourself to be incredibly impatient and naive Beast.

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22 Oct 2014 16:26:01
Oh and "I say bring in SAF with G. Neville assisting, with Neville taking over at the end of the season." You really need to step back into reality mate.

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Why don't you two get a room. Just because I'm prepared to put my neck on the line and blame the manager as opposed to anything else people try to think of to excuse this waste of time.

Have you all forgotten that we are Man Utd, the team that dominated English football for 20 years, most of you are just accepting our demise without any fight? Your expectations have dropped so far in 12 months its disgusting.

Not one person has come back saying Yes in answer to my questions, you all have just told me how stupid my assessment is in one way or another.

My main question again - Would any of you have hired the manager if you knew where we would be in the league considering who we have signed and who we have played? The answer has to be no if you know anything about success and failure.

We can dream up all the reasons we want, some of them may be valid, but where does the buck stop, it has to be the manager because he is the first to milk the glory?

Injuries - manager picks the training and the players he wants in his squad and has access to the best possible medical advice - he knows we are injury prone at the back and lacking experience.

Transition - We have not progressed football wise, we have just signed a couple of world class players who would do the same to any team they joined - no skill in that, I could improve the overall shots at goal if I were in charge by bringing in ADM.

Time - Other managers with more turmoil, less experience, weaker players and infrastructure have all done better and integrated better.

Media - He back tracks, gets peoples backs up and polarises opinion - he is not a nice man to be around most of the time.

Plan - What is it, he changes it every week or back tracks amending aspects?

Attitudes like this is why weakness is rewarded in society.

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22 Oct 2014 17:57:22
Keep digging beast, the reason people are jumping on u mate is because u wanted the manager sacked after every dropped point!

You want Simone, a novice trusted with 150m u want gnev who has never managed a team before.

Get a room? Come on now, u posted a thread to get a reaction and now ure upset when u get 1 & people disagree with u, and i now see u are agreeing with your own post lol.
The only person that needs a room on this thread is u, a big padded one.

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22 Oct 2014 18:29:42
No one hires a manager with a prior knowledge of the results so the question is bogus to be fair. Those hiring are not fortune tellers. They deal with CVs and LVG holds an enviable one

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Beast
Lvg has a big job on his hands and imo should be given time, even if he has had a worse start than moyes with a much better squad against easier opponents .
also lvg has less pressure following moyes than moyes did following fergy.

But managers need time not 8 games

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Jred

Managers need more than 8 games if they have the experience and gravitas to do the job and one does the other didn't.

Actually LvG is for me a short term option and it is his replacement that will be interesting, something we should be preparing for even now

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21 Oct 2014 16:37:13
I know football brings out emotions in people like nothing else, but I find it funny the lengths some people go to to get their points across. Why is it always "We're back" after a win or else "the manager is clueless, get rid of him and player X, Y, Z" how about a bit of perspective.
Do yous kick the wife out if she burns the roasties on a Sunday?
The thing is we deserved to win the game but individual errors cost us. No United fan in their right mind would have expected us to win the league this year. We're signing a better calibre of player, we're playing (all be it in patches) better football and with the injuries, the new players, new manager and backroom staff and new style of play it's not all doom and gloom. Of course it could be better but we could also be playing the dour football we were subjected to last year.

The top 2 have settled squads with managers who have a season under their belt and it's showing. Out of the rest I think we've the best chance of finishing 3rd and kick on in the next two windows. If we're 7th by Christmas, then worry, but not now.
Take a deep breath, if it takes 2 steps forward one step back then so be it. It's exciting watching us again and at this moment in time, while the players are coming back and everyone is gelling, that's good enough for me!

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21 Oct 2014 17:10:59
You can't be talking sense like that on here Mumbles :)

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21 Oct 2014 16:01:33
I'm going to go ahead and say it, we missed Rooney big time yesterday. RvP looks pretty useless atm unless it's put on a plate for him, compared to his first season where he was creating a lot for himself as well as others which is non existent this season. The only decent thing I can remember him doing against WBA was hitting the post.

Mata was probably our most useless player the whole match which is strange considering he was playing in his favoured position and with Rooney being out you'd think he'd try capitalise on the opportunity but he doesn't seem too fussed.

Nice to see Fellaini get his first United goal, hasn't been easy for him since joining! Hopefully it'll get his confidence up and help him with his all round game. I thought he actually impacted the game for us more than anyone else.

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21 Oct 2014 16:33:18
And whys the reason we missed Rooney? Because of his own stupidity that could of cost the team dearly

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I always thought Fellaini can be taught to a good standard under Van Gaals coaching he could be very usedul in certain matches .

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Fellaini will be useful and I am pleased he got his first goal - especially after that Tweet from the official West Brom Twitter account. We do miss Rooney though I think, he still adds more to the team that Mata overall even though he probably isn't technically a better number 10.

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21 Oct 2014 17:02:44
Fresh,

Have you seen their explanation about that tweet? I have never seen anyone back track so ridiculously in my life. Why they didn't just admit they made a mistake is beyond me.

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21 Oct 2014 17:31:37
Chris it's ironic I know but regardless he would have added a lot to our game last night.

Haha that tweet was surprisingly unprofessional and I don't think you'd ever see a big team allow it to be tweeted in the first place. The fact they said they meant it in regards to him wearing a shirt underneath the tracksuit is just beyond silly.

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Fellani did more last night than most players passed well and tackle well Blind is a good player but his over dependance on his left foot is horrible even when a simple pass is on on his right he won't take it that is why a Vidal or Strooman is needed would drop Mata for the Chelsea game play Fellani in the hole and have him interchanging with Herrera

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Yes it was embarrasing.

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21 Oct 2014 15:29:24
you know liverpool have been simply awful this season, unless we improve, i don't like to think what will happen, but even us being so poor, we are still in front of utd, so not all bad lol.
ps, are you sure its not van gogh you got as manager, you know the painter guy who cut off his ear, because i don't think your manager can hear a word the fans tell him to do.lol.

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21 Oct 2014 16:35:17
Or maybe it's our club is not dictated to by disillusioned fans that think the answer is to waste money every season and Chuck every player that has not played a 9/10 every week on the scrap heap?

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21 Oct 2014 17:03:24
So what point you making lfc?

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Chris
R u sure

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21 Oct 2014 17:37:53
I'm 100% sure jred that our fans have a slightly more long term outlook on things than pool, yes.

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Chris
After reading the page today and last night i'm not so sure .
Blow money every summer, get rid of a player the moment they have a bad game,

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Liverpool are dire. Madrid will rip them a new one.

Ronny will do us proud and bag a hatrick.

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Lfc, i hope the Liverpool-players are remembering to take vaseline with them to the game, cus they're going to get it haaaard.

Ronaldo - Benzema - James
Isco - Kroos - Modric

Against

Henderson - Gerrard - Lallana
Johnson, Skrtel, Lovren, Enrique.


It's not going to be a pleasent site.

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21 Oct 2014 15:11:40
It's getting like last season on here again. We were the better team last night and should have won. We didn't, but we are 6th and only 8 games into the season, with another new manager at the helm, as everyone wanted the last one out. We have a superior squad to last years, but it takes time to gel and with the injuries/suspensions we have had, what are people really expecting? LVG stated 3 months due to past experience, but there is no way anyone can tell how long the 6 summer signings will take to truly settle, and then how long the team as a whole will take to start producing their best week in and week out.

3rd place is still 100% achievable and I totally expect us to get it. It was always going to be up and down at the start, but come December/January I think we will see us playing to what we expect and really pushing on. Other than City and Chelsea, I don't see anyone who I'm particularly bothered about. When it clicks, the other 17 teams won't have enough to stop us getting 3rd, in my eyes. Especially if we can get a strong leader in at CB in January.

I'm enjoying our games this year more than last, even if it hasn't gone as many had predicted. We will come good, especially if we can get an injury break. A little luck wouldn't be too much to ask for either.

Finally, just like to say well done to Fellaini, great goal last night, no one can deny that, no matter how much they dislike him. I'm with Neville, we shouldn't be embarrassed to use a player like Fellaini when needed, it can't be beautiful football at all times. Sometimes you need to battle and fight to get a result any way you can, he can help with that, when needed. Chelsea can play some beautiful football at times, but Mourinho isn't bothered about playing boring at times to get a result, that's how it has to be.

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Brendan - I would expect him to allow the players to gel into a specific formation. Every week it is something different, this is why we have such little fluidity, the players are having to learn to play together yet all the time the rules keep changing - I don't blame the players at all it is simply down to LVG fiddling around.

Other teams have had just as much going on players in and out, we have better players coming in and a better infrastructure - yet we are playing like an International team just put together. 3 months then judge me, hmm?

This is the first manager we have hired, (Moyes was SAF's man), so it is fair to assume that Woody & Co picking the manager could get it wrong first time isn't it, after all he got the first transfer window he was responsible for wrong didn't he? if he is not doing his job then he should be fired, irrelevant of who came before him.

What formation will it be next week, this lack of Europe was meant to be of benefit? I think if we do get 3rd or 4th it will be gifted us, rather than deserving it. We look like we are still in pre-season.

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21 Oct 2014 16:03:59
Beast, you need some serious relaxation techniques my friend. So you want us now to sack LVG 8 games into the season, after people demanded Moyes be sacked last season? And who, in your infinite wisdom, do you see around who could do the job, under the huge pressure a United manager faces from fans, owners, press etc? Other than the ones who aren't available of course. Don't even mention Koeman, Martinez etc, you cannot compare Wigan, Everton, Southampton, to the job we have on our hands here and at a club as huge as this. People think because someone has a few successful games at Southampton, they are qualified to take one of the top 3 management jobs in world football.

He is changing formations, tactics etc because of the ever changing personnel he has available. Do you honestly think that if we had a 100% injury free squad, that things would be changing so much? What one player or group of players can do best, isn't necessarily what another player or group of players can do equally as well. He is implementing his 'philosophy', and maybe some players are getting it quicker than others, therefore forcing him to change things around when injuries occur. It will take time for the squad as a whole to play how he wants, whether you want to accept that fact or not.

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21 Oct 2014 17:05:26
Beast,

So after 8 games you have decided that if we finish top 3 or 4, which will obviously mean winning a lot of games, that we will have been gifted it? With that attitude you are never ever ever going to be happy as a United fan or a football fan, and maybe knitting or something more relaxing is for you?

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Arry might be out of work soon if you want somebody to take over Brendan

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21 Oct 2014 13:45:40
In order for any new system to work, all 11 players need to understand and fulfil the duties required of them in that system. If one player fails, then it forces the nearest player to him to compensate and as a result, he too then finds himself out of position, and the closest player to him then steps in and so on and so forth. Very quickly, the team becomes very un-organised, un-balanced and prone to becoming stretched very, very easily.

As far this season, this is exactly what I'm seeing, and it's not particularly one single player at fault either. The players on show are undoubtedly very talented and are not unintelligent either. So what's missing? A voice. Someone on the pitch who understands the system completely and can pull players into position should they wonder away. Defend as a solid unit, and attack as a solid unit. This is one of Mourinho's biggest attributes. If a player does not conform to this system, then they're out of the door plain and simple. Too often during a match I'm seeing a full-back 20 yards further forward then the other defenders. Or central midfield players more than 15 yards apart from each other. Of even a front man being 30 yards away from the No. 10.

It's all very dis-jointed at the moment and it will take time for each player to 'click' in his role. On a positive note, as the entire academy is working on this system, future young players will be able to seamlessly integrate into the first team. I have complete faith in LvG and we will soon start to see his philosophy - my hope is that we're not too far away from a top 4 position when it all starts to come together.

WF Red Devil

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21 Oct 2014 14:26:00
What is weird is how a not previously semi retired Dutch manager can get a completely different team playing so well together in the same time period.

Maybe he should take a leaf out of Ronald Koemans book. Trouble is you can't help sickness when you're bad.

Roll on Sunday, can't wait to come up against your strongest defence, now that was according to you all, your strongest defence, wasn't it.

Oh remind me again how much we fleeced you for Mata?

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WF Red Devil - The system has changed at least 3 times in 8 games, this is the problem. The manager doesn't know what he is doing, he is almost like a mad scientist testing things on humans before the animals.

He is the sole reason we are all over the place, the players look scared to do anything aside from ADM. Its all safe, its all cautious, we are seeing the football equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome.

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M.wallace you shouldn't embarass other teams when your teams the king of the biggest ROBBERY of the decade ( AKA Fernando 50 million Torres).

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21 Oct 2014 14:59:45
I seriously can't believe some of you guys on here lol.

Just yesterday I was reading you guys comparing us to arsenal and liverpool saying they're not too much of a threat this season, some even went on to say we should be fighting it out vs City for 2nd etc.

And now, after one more game you're all gone mad and its the manager who doesn't know what he's doing.

Give it a break.

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21 Oct 2014 15:24:29
I honestly believe that the reason why he's changed the system a few times is to try and make his philosophy easier to integrate. We originally tried a 3-5-2 along with his playing philosophy/system, and it was clearly too much information too quickly. which he soon realised was a mistake. He's then slowly reverted back to a 4-4-2 (albeit diamond) to try and not overhaul the players with a completely new system and philosophy, by giving them the formation that they're used to. However at the moment, it's looking like this strange hybrid system, and might have just confused the players even further. I do trust his experience and knowledge to guide us through this, but agree that he need to stick with one formation and one system.

WF Red Devil

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21 Oct 2014 15:46:18
No matter how much you bleat Marcellus,we all have the memory of the great night inmoscow etched in our brains.Unless we ever meet you in another final it's something you can't ever better

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WF - I understand what you are saying mate, but he is accountable for this mistake. Its not good enough to keep saying one thing then moving the goal posts, he literally back tracks all the time. He wasted all of pre-season with a formation then ditched it, then just as we are getting to grips with the diamond he switches again. He is paid a vast amount of money to make the right decisions, aside from authorise a few good signings he seems to be making error after error, it simply isn't good enough.

LVG is living off a patchy CV, a lucky World Cup, a desperate Media and our own desperation for things to come good. Our lack of football is not helping matters because we have to wait so long to see inept performances, so we build up false hope during the interim (Moyes went from bad game to bad game in days).

Our team should be competing and beating City, man for man we have the beating of them imo, but we struggle with mid table fodder, it is pure and simply wrong. If his name was Moyes the planes would be flying none stop over Old Trafford by now.

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Manager can only do so much people he can tell his players to play excitingly but unless they do that then he can't go on the pitch and play himself face we are still in Moyes mode to a certain extent

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21 Oct 2014 13:43:44
What's peoples thoughts on LVG dropping Mata and having Herrera in the 10 role behind Falcao and RVP

Then a midfield of Fellaini and Blind, Fellaini giving that physical presence in Midfield but also interchanging with Herrera to put pressure on the Chelsea back four and Di'Maria in a free role.

Thoughts Welcome

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I think we need Herrera's busyness in the middle, he was weak yesterday and gave the ball away, but that must be down to injury. Fellaini is too slow to play CM. Fellaini should play at the head of the diamond with RVP & Falcao picking up after him, they will have space to play if Fellaini plays there.

Our CB's are not comfortable on the ball and tend to hoof it a lot, so we need an outlet otherwise it will be constant pressure, Mata is pointless against Chelsea.

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21 Oct 2014 13:24:30
Hi All, check out my usual match review on the Teams page. i accidently made a reference to formation and who i'd play when talking about the midfield. soo yeh its on there haha!

Please have a read!

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21 Oct 2014 12:19:36
I think we had a chance to kill off the game yesterday involving Van Persie.

There was a situation whrre Van Persie went for a shot instead of passing it to Mata or Di Maria which were in the box waiting for the pass but didn't receive it . They wouldve both scored that oppurtunity had van persie passex it to them as they were not marked and Van persie had three or four people around him.

If Van Persie wasn't greedy and looked around him and made the pass we wouldn't have lost that game.

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More scapegoating, embarrassing!!!

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We didn't lose either by the way we drew just incase you missed the equalizer.

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21 Oct 2014 13:18:39
And if RVP had passed that it would have made it 1-1, not killed off the game!

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Exactly my point I think Van Persie is trying too hard to score he needs to realise he has more quality around him and other options are available .

These are all iffs and buts but if Van Persie passed it and had one of our players scored I think it wouldve benefited Van Persie in regards to him helping a team score and team benefitting from a player contributing towards the teams final tally.

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GDS, Would you have at that point preferred 1.0 to West Brom and Van Persie that chance or you wouldve preferred 1.1 and we wouldve had the rest of the game trying to concentrate on attacking and put west brom under pressure instead of them sneaking another goal and we ended up chasing to draw at the end.

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I know the point you are making but if you watch carefully where RVP "should" have played it a WBA was flying back and would have intercepted the ball. It looked greedier than it was. RVP needs a striker with him to create space, Mata doesn't do enough with one up top.

Did everyone notice how easy Mata was brushed aside and his lame attempt to run towards the ball when it broke in the box, my God he is so slow, it was painful.

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I agree with you guys and i am not saying Van Persie had a bad game because he was extremely unlucky when his powerful shot hit the bar.

I just think our team lacks coordination and we could utilise the ball a bit better by making different decisions when on the ball.

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21 Oct 2014 17:06:37
singh,

You are aware we did get back to 1-1?

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21 Oct 2014 11:56:38
We may not be performing well but got to give credit to the whole team. All of them having been running their socks off. All are working for the cause of team, and the third and fourth positions would be a battle till the season end and United would really be in it.

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Shame the manager is abusing the effort by confusing the lot of them though.

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21 Oct 2014 11:48:53
just read utd might go in for Pique 20mill pounds. would he be worth the buy. does he still start for barca.

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He has lost his place to Mathieu.

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Thanks fresh. does that mean mascherano is the other cb. i thought mathieu would have partnered pique.

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21 Oct 2014 11:16:44
Hats off to West Brom, they were excellent last night and did pose a real threat. I think they will get some good results this season. My biggest problem with the performance was our formation. I'm hoping that we changed last minute when Falcao got hurt before the game. The diamond to me is far more effective with the players that we have and we need to revert to it for the Chelsea game.

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Ed033 Note: The Manchester United Player Ratings page has been updated to the latest Manchester United match.

You can also vote on Man of the Match for the latest game using our Manchester United Man of the Match Polls page.

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21 Oct 2014 10:47:12
So most of us on here would be happy with a 4th place finish this season I believe. We have a new set of lads who are trying to gel whilst playing together, our captain is suspended and we are struggling for a back 4 combination that can keep anything like a clean sheet, yet we are still doing OK.

This season we are going to have big ups and big downs, we do not need to get carried away and too excited by a big win, and we definitely do not need to get too depressed after a defeat or even a draw where we should have won.

The results aren't quite there, but anyone with a memory can see that we are playing a million times better than last season. We aren't the finished article, nobody is saying we are, almost everybody here admits we aren't good enough to win the league, but then goes crazy when we get a draw against a decent side who put their only 2 chances away with great finishing.

I appreciate the standard thing to do on this site is overreact to anything and everything, but I think the key word this season is 'patience'. The next 2 games are the big test, and we have big game players that we were lacking last season. I am thinking Carrick and Blind will sit behind Herrera and Di Maria in midfield, making us narrower and much harder to break down.

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I'd be happy with 4th and it's certainly achievable. City and Chelsea seem like they'll be fighting it out for the top 2 but nobody below that is beyond us.

Arsenal and Liverpool look equally inconsistent. As I said before, I don't expect much from the next 2 games but I'm also not concerned with that for now. It's how we rebound from that, if the worst happens. And I think we will.

If we had a genuine world-class CB alongside one of Rojo, Jones, Evans or Smalling (whichever made the best partner for said WC CB), we'd be a lot healthier.

Some posters have seemed concerned with Blind's inability to shield the back 4. Blind is a great signing, but he HIMSELF said long before joining Utd, he was unsure whether he could play as DM due to the physicality.

So it shouldn't be a surprise that he's struggling with aspects of the role.

But I totally agree, I enjoy every game we play at the moment, regardless of the result - we're playing exciting football for the most part. We just need to gel, soon.

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21 Oct 2014 17:08:18
RS,

Cant disagree with anything you said there mate, and I agree the gelling needs to be soon, imagine the overreaction on here the opposite way if we win on Sunday!

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GDS

We always butt heads during the season but I'm currently a lot more optimistic than usual, I just don't fancy us in the next 2.

If we beat Chelsea, the reaction would be huge but don't you understand why? When we're dropping points to Burnley, WBA, Sunderland, surely beating Chelsea would provoke a big reaction.

I know what you're getting at though. I always take your points on board, I'm guilty of over-reacting with games like WBA. I just wish we'd signed a worldy for CB and we'd be top 3 by now, IMO.

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22 Oct 2014 00:08:34
Once again mate, I agree fully, I wish we had signed a world class centre back, and I think we will in due course

I don't particularly fancy us in the next 2 and of course I will understand the overreaction if we beat Chelsea, but I still think there will be a few more games like last night and the odd game like leicester that we will need to come to terms with before it all starts to get better again, so trying not to overreact to wins or overreact to draws or defeats.

People need to remember fergie drew a few games over the years.

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21 Oct 2014 09:19:19
If I was lvg, I would be on the phone today asking Gary Neville to become our defensive coach. Gary will sort these lot out and drill them into playing using their heads. One of the best footballing brains that has graced our teams and we don't utilise him.
I'm sure he's happy doing Sky and the England job, but United is in his DNA and he will sort the mess at the back.

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Agree

I asked a few weeks back what Giggs contribution is, can he coach a defence? For me we went for the wrong assistant manager and Gary Nev would be a better call, even as a defensive coach

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21 Oct 2014 08:02:19
Interesting game to watch last night. I am not sure if anyone saw stuart matte son's interview he did not hold back any punches :)

Obvious this philosophy thing with this group of centre backs does not work at all not full backs as they both had good games last night.

I think we got used to playing deep under Fergie and absorb pressure the last 4 or 5 years and these guys are fish out of water when asked to play higher up on the pitch and get tight and from a positioning and change of direction thing they are constantly caught out and concede very simple goals.

12 points form these fixtures is a very poor outcome after having spent 150 mill and playing better offensively does not cut the bacon with me when you have the like of Falcao and Di Maria in the side. Most coaches should be able to play better offensively with our group of players as we are stacked with talent going forward including Rooney and RVP.

I think the next 2 games will be very interesting to see how LVG handles bigger teams because so far not impressed.

Fergie would win the league with this team.

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{Ed001's Note - did either have a good game? The fullbacks I mean. Shaw was constantly out of position and caught out repeatedly, though he did defend well when he was one on one with Dorrans, his positioning is extremely poor. Rafael kept gifting the ball back when asked to defend, with poor touches, clearances or headers. They were both good going forward, in particular Rafael was good on the attack. He also kept himself from making those silly rash challenges as well, in fact this season he has almost, almost, got rid of that major weakness. But I still wouldn't think either could be claimed to have had a good game as they were a big part of both West Brom goals due to their absolutely woeful positioning. Even if it was the only positional mistake Rafael made last night, it was still such a big one that it has to be picked out as a blight on a game filled with minor errors.}

I thought Shaw was poor last night. He looked slow, very rarely positive with the ball and looked a bit lost. Rafael did well but Januzaj didn't give him too many options to be fair.

Shaw played better when ADM came off, I think it will take time for the two of them to gel and trust each other.

GCU - I agree with your assessment of LVG - In fact I think most prem managers would have us up there with Chelsea after these games. We look like an England team still, no synergy, not a team just a group of talented individuals failing to do what they do best and certainly not linking. ADM is the only exception, but again his passing and delivery was very hit and miss, still a class above.

Why is he still messing around with the formation?

Rojo - Mr. long ball.

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Gcu. Agreed that the return so far has been well below average. I don't think the team is defending well as a unit. But I also agree with ed1 that the fullbacks had dreadful games defensively. I am not enamoured by any of our CB's apart from rojo who will be good once settled. Evans smalling and Jones are not the quality we need, also they are not intelligent enough to do the job properly.
We need two top CB's and I would bring in alves and coentrao to give the fullbacks some competition.
We are desperately in need of a physically solid defensive midfielder. That's a must.
I was all for bringing in lvg, and I'm happy he's trying to overhaul the squad, marks out of 10 will be 5. So there's plenty of room for improvement.
I would also like to see falcao up front with no rvp. We will need to pack the midfield in the next two games, so let's see what he does!

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Shaw was terrible last night, I have no idea what game you were watching if you think he had a good game. Rafael not to bad going forward but also needs to remember his role as defender.
Herrera seems way to lightweight always getting pushed off the ball, DiMaria was'nt at his best unfortunately and Falcao did'nt start because he was doing a Sterling(shameful), and it took me at least 20 mins into the second half to realise RVP was still on the pitch. I do like the look of Blind, he does'nt mind a bit of physicality and he not scared to put his body in there(needs a little more pace though).
I actually thought we were better when the Wig came on.

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Herbie

Shaw was doing a lot of defending as Di Maria was not getting back. We where behind so early the fullbacks were pushed forward and both were going to have their moments with being caught out of position.

ED001

The second goal is not rafael's fault and more Phil jones bone head style of playing. He was never going to get there in time and should have actually done the opposite rather than going up to their guy and opening up a channel that truck could run down and the west brom boy did so. If you watch replays of the second goal is all phil jones mate.

They actually had someone coming down the left wing and rafael had to shift to cover him when jones decided to go up and we really had 3 at the back.

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{Ed001's Note - I have watched it over and over mate, I am working on profiles of all the players involved in the game and it is all 3 of them at fault. Jones should never have charged forward, but Blind was not where he should have been, so Jones felt the need to make the challenge. Blind was out of position, not providing cover, when he should have been the one in position to make the challenge. Failing that, he should have been busting a gut to get into position to cover the run forward Jones made and fill the huge gaping hole. As for Rafael, he was asleep, he should have been over on the cover, instead he was ball watching, hence why he was the one too deep and playing Berahino onside.}

21 Oct 2014 07:26:02
Talk about over reactions, some of the comments have been staggering. Adnan has only had 1 good game, RVP is finished, Blimd isn't good enough.

We played really well and looked far more fluent and energetic than we have. On any other day we would have won. They had 2 shots, both went in.

I think Blind has been excellent but of feels like he is doing the work of 2 at the moment. I really like him, l he's calm and cool and gets his foot in as well.

From a wider perspective, games do see to pass mata by and he does get knocked off the ball too much. Quote me all the stats you want but generally he is not involved enough. I like 1 up front but would have gone with Falcao assuming he wasn't knackered. We need to see just how good he is.

I championed Januzaj recently and I still think he can be a great player for us - feels like some careful man management is needed here.

Our issues are all at the back. Mishawaka is settling in and the CBs look flustered. We should be doing endless defensive drills right now, bring in a specialist defensive coach and get them properly organised and talking teach other.

As a few of us have said, it will be rocky this year, but it will be entertaining

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Falcao wasn't knackered, LVG was spoon fed that reason in the interview. He wanted to play RVP by himself and when asked he errmed and arred about saying "because I prefer RVP", but he bottled it and said "because RVP has had 2 days extra recovery". Most of the players in the prem that travelled the furthest had the best games this weekend, we also played on a Monday not Saturday - it was rubbish.

AJH - I wasn't impressed at all with the performance, sloppy everywhere, slow again and we created very few chances yet again. WBA bottled it if you ask me, they were running past us with ease until they scored then they just tried to hold on.

The only thing that changed second half was Fellaini coming on, which created a bit of havoc, but we didn't play good football, we didn't look anything like a team still.

Zero progress!

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21 Oct 2014 09:02:35
Hello Mr positive.
Has any of your positive point outs gave results?? Which ultimately maters??
I m not expert. I give opinion game by game. and in summery this results are unacceptablr

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21 Oct 2014 10:33:22
rodio,

In the long term we are better playing like we did last night and drawing than playing how we did last season and winning 1-0. There are far far more positives this season, least of all battling until the end and almost pulling a win from what could have been a very undeserved defeat. Last season we looked like we had no passion and got worse as the season went on, can you really see this team being like that under LVG?

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The positive is the players we have bought .
So far its well done woody pull your socks up lvg

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GDS2 - What formation are we going to play though? Who cares about long term if we don't win these types of games we will struggle for top 4 then struggle to sign players or keep paying well over the odds for players/mercenaries.

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21 Oct 2014 07:04:35
Honestly sometimes u just have to give the other team credit, west brom defended amazing simple as, the have the game to us and got in position and defended great. We made 2/3 mistakes and were punished. The signs are good we kept going didn't let our heads dropped and got the point we deserved.

We move on to chelsea.

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21 Oct 2014 06:30:06
In addition to the points I posted last night I thought LvG's post match comment about physicality could prove interesting. Our midfield three of Herrera, Mata and Blind were too slow and not physical enough. I don't believe Fellaini is good enough to play central midfield so as I have said before we need to add one there. Given the physicality comment I would wonder if Khedira is more the man we need.

We are retaining possession better and we are changing, this is the transition, it will improve.

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21 Oct 2014 10:37:05
Or Vidal, the player we wanted all summer?

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GDS

Khedira is 6 foot 2in and that is why I suggested him as opposed to Vidal

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21 Oct 2014 12:56:03
I know, but physicality doesn't mean height does it? Vidal had the most tackles in Europe last year.

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We are not a tall team and can get bullied in the air as well. When Carrick played he gave us a screen in front of the back four but also some height. We will see but LvG comments last night could be an indication he could go in that direction. If he spotted something after 30 minutes then we need something dynamic. There are not many around of that type but consider that if a German centre half happened to arrive then it may help having a fellow German to play close in front of him

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22 Oct 2014 00:10:53
Haha hummels and khedira is a bit of a dream isn't it, would be great.

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DiMaria and Falcao were a dream and that happened

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21 Oct 2014 05:34:26
Against City and Chelsea we are going to have to play more conservatively and with less width. The defense has got to be tighter with perhaps both Blind and Carrick or even Fellaini playing dual defensive midfielders. I don't see a place for Mata.

As for today, Young had a decent cameo performance as did Fellaini whose goal was beautifully struck. I think I even saw him running on one occasion. We looked better with 2 strikers. Falcao showed the sort of aggression needed. Januzaj looked completely out of sorts. His ball control was sadly lacking.

The most positive news was that we scored a late goal for the first time this season and ended up being unlucky not to have won the match.

I'd swap Berahino for RVP - look to the future not the past.

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