Manchester United Banter Archive April 22 2019

22 Apr 2019 22:02:24
If you have the time, is there any foundation in M Phelan coming in as a footballing director?

Thanks for any clarification in advance.

{Ed002's Note - Yes.}

22 Apr 2019 22:10:23
Thanks

Kind of happy with that but till leaves the scope for Ed W to bring in some “ virus’ “.

23 Apr 2019 07:10:15
Another case of hanging on to the past, and will end in tears.

23 Apr 2019 07:12:06
How can anyone be happy about that possibility? Ridiculous situation.

23 Apr 2019 09:19:59
The irony of your post benny 😂.

23 Apr 2019 10:29:00
Haha angel nice one. But yeah, this just stinks of when our big managers and coaches never moved on. We ended up with Souness and well. yeah.

23 Apr 2019 10:49:01
Well you seemed to have gotten it right now benny. he's doing a good job and has all his players fighting tooth and nail for each other.

23 Apr 2019 11:28:47
Only took us 30 years to get over the boot room era mate. I just think everything top to bottom should be cleaned out and started again. Phelan, Woodward, Ole, just stinks of stagnant water.

22 Apr 2019 20:57:43
During our managerial changes, has the backroom staff always changed or have some remained throughout. Specifically i'm thinking about fitness and conditioning staff. I am asking because aside from the players who can't be bothered like Martial, there are others who do care but just seem far less fit than other teams.

22 Apr 2019 19:30:10
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Cardiff City v Liverpool - A Liverpool Perspective

22 Apr 2019 15:08:37
Do we give away the status of a legend too lightly at United? Seeing Ole branded as a legend of the club. Basis what might i ask? That one night in Barcelona? 100 odd goals for the club and we brand a player a club legend too easily. Soon enough people will start calling Martial and Rashford legends, they are half way there already? Is there a criteria that defines a legend? Rooney for me would be a legend, Giggs, Scholes, Best, Cantona, SAF, Charlton among others. Solskjaer for me would not come into the category.

22 Apr 2019 15:31:29
If you play for the club for over 10 years, score as many goals and as many important goals as he has then I think he gets the right to be called a legend.

{Ed0333's Note - of course he’s a legend. Only an idiot would say he isn’t. He claimed legendary status that night against Munich.

22 Apr 2019 15:58:30
Still don't see the criteria Shappy. Valencia has played 8 years. Macheda scored a brilliant goal and an important one. Chicharito scored many such goals. Is Sheringham a legend? He scored the first one against Munich. Is Carrick a legend on his tenure? I mean no disrespect to Ole, he was a great servent of the club but not a legend in my eyes. Ole's Legendary status is a romantic/ sentimental notion based om that night in Barcelona.

22 Apr 2019 16:37:51
Think you've been out in the sun too long Shan it looks like you have sun stroke.

22 Apr 2019 16:25:07
A lot of legends are based on sentiment and also likability. For me Pirlo was never as good as his ‘legendary’ status perceives but he’s a cool, likeable guy and therefore will be remembered in very high regard.
You’ve also got to remember that Ole was a great servant to the club for being the guy who played second fiddle for his whole United career but when called upon did a fantastic job, and some! The four goals against Forest from the bench is an iconic moment for me. Add that with his professionalism and that, for me, makes him a bit of a legend.

22 Apr 2019 16:32:48
Interesting question. I hope you don’t me asking Shan but how old are you or more pertinently how old were you in ‘99?

Ole often sat on the bench, never complained. He was offered a way to Spurs but he decided to stay and fight. Post Bachman it looked like he as going to be first choice but then got injured. It’s not just st tha goal, it’s the 4 he scored in 20 minutes away at a forest, it’s the countless times he came on rescue us but it’s also his style, his approach, and his respect for our club. Legend all day long for me.

22 Apr 2019 16:35:34
People forget how good ole was. He missed nearly 3 years due to injuries. He scored numerous big goals in the club’s history, not just that goal in Barcelona. Top player and a hero to many. Deserving of legend status.

22 Apr 2019 16:51:23
I think that moment coupled with his service and attitude all contribute to his status as club legend.
When people talk about united quality. that's exactly what ole was.
Team before self at all times.
Try to be as good as you can be at all times.
Respect the club the manager and the fans at all times.
Realise how lucky you are and to work hard every day to maintain that status.
Ability to deliver in key moments.
Keep a low profile off the pitch.
Have a winning mentality.
Make mistakes but bounce back stronger.
Thats united quality that's what its all about.
Ole had them all as a player and gave us possibly our finest moment on our history. that's why he is a legend.
He can't see those qualities in too many of his squad. Nobody can.
He has a big job ahead of him.
Extremely light on experience he needs to learn on the job and learn quickly.
Can he do it? Who knows, but the odds are stacked against him. I would say a man coming into this job with as little experience as ole has a less than 5% chance of success.
Whatever the strategy is and at the moment it remains totally unclear' we will know a lot more about our chances next season when the transfer window shuts.

22 Apr 2019 17:14:34
Legend but not a great. Greats, Best, Charlton, Law, Edwards, Ronaldo, Rooney, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Vidic and maybe others, they were renowned as the best and great players. Ole wasn’t a great, but he knew how to score a goal and scored one of the most important goals in our history, therefore a legend.

The legend status makes it harder to speak honestly about his suitability for the managers role and that will be an ongoing problem.

22 Apr 2019 17:21:53
Jesus what an awful post.

None of the current side will be legends until they sort themselves out. They probably worry about there earnings than being a club legend.

22 Apr 2019 17:21:59
AJH was going to say the same thing!

Aged 6 in 99 but I grew up adoring Ole to the point I was full on teary eyed when he announce his retirement. Oles also only ever played for the badge (The time he got a red card for stopping another team getting us on the counter being the last man) baby faced assassin for a reason. I'd say you would've had to have grown up around them times to understand why OGS is and will always be a club legend. Ahead of RVN and RVN scored hell of goals for us. Imo RVN doesn't even come close to the legendary status of our Solskjaer. #ThatNightInMunich #AndSolskjaerHasWonIt.

22 Apr 2019 19:08:09
Shan,

Cantona for United: 70 goals in 156 appearances, 4 Premier League titles, 2 FA Cups, 0 Champion's League

Solsksjaer for United: 126 goals in 366 games, 6 Premier League titles, 2 FA Cups, 1 Champion's League (scoring the winning goal in injury time)

If Cantona is a legend (and he is, as you admit) then so is Ole.

2OLEGEND.

22 Apr 2019 19:34:10
The guy scored the winning goal in the final of club footballs biggest prize. Is anything more legendary?

22 Apr 2019 19:46:49
Great post Ken and well said RWWD.

22 Apr 2019 21:06:06
Shan,

Bit of homework for you, go and watch all of Ole’s goals for united, I think they often show them on MUTV so should be out there to watch, then come back and apologise for even asking the question.

22 Apr 2019 22:13:16
GDS

He only needs to watch one goal.

22 Apr 2019 16:57:16
Shan, read shappys criteria again. none of the players you mentioned fit that criteria whatsoever.

As ed0333 says, only an idiot thinks OGS isn't a legend.

23 Apr 2019 05:09:41
Apologise my butt GDS2.

Tony, i was 12 at the time but that moment still gives. me the jitters every time i watch it, although the rest of the game wasnt exciting.

Interesting and good arguments put forth by almost everyone, except for GDS2 who thinks of himself as the moral police on here, and i agree to most of you guys. I repeat myself that i mean no disrespect to Ole but for me a legend is a term that should be used for stalwarts, someone larger than life in the history of the club. I agree Ole was there at the right place at the right time in 99 and scored a few more goals as a sub but for me that isn't enough to be called a legend of the club. Yes his name is etched in the history books and he was a United star at the time but still not a legend.

Cantona babysat the class of 1992 and brought out the man in them. Even SAF dare not point a finger at him as he carried the team. Even his kungfu is legendary. Solskjaer was 4th striker in the team most times and was in a team that had Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, RVN in their prime so it wasnt a one man show with him.

Ken all those qualities define a good footballer not a legend.

Hey but i am not arguing with anyone here. Just put up a question because i think we use the term legend way too casually.

23 Apr 2019 06:53:01
Ole breathes Manchester United.
He epitomizes how a player associated to Manchester United should conduct himself.
Passion, desire and hunger to fight for the shirt.
Only a plastic fan will think Ole isn't a legend.

23 Apr 2019 06:59:18
Would you class David Beckham a legend shan?

23 Apr 2019 07:54:18
Yes angelred, Beckham is a legend in the world of football, not Man Utd legend though. His stature in the world and his activities for UNICEF sports development programme accord him that status. The guy even has a movie named after him, Bend it like Beckham. Must be something special in that right foot.

22 Apr 2019 11:29:08
Why do people think that promoting players from the academy will solve our problems on the pitch?

Our academy has been severely neglected for over a decade. Ed001 has explained how the academy stagnated, costs were cut, and we coasted on reputation rather than producing quality young players.

How many of our academy players have made the transition to the first team over the past decade? How many of our exceptional up and coming talents completely underwhelmed at senior level? What has convinced people that the current crop will be any different?

The Class got 92 was the fruits of a well funded, well run academy. Fergie put faith in young players because he recognised that they were capable of stepping up.

This is a different era. Our stadium is one bad winter from becoming a UNESCO heritage site, and our academy is equally archaic and miles behind the likes of City and Chelsea. If the talent was there, previous managers would have looked to it.

The club requires massive investment and modernisation to get back to the top level, and pretending that the attitude of the first team is the root cause is misguided.

22 Apr 2019 12:09:10
For a start they would be more arsed than half of these waste of spaces in the first team.

Anyone who has an attitude problem they shouldn't be at the club if that means selling the so called best players In our team so be it.


To many times we have slated the manager on here when in fact the players are an absolute joke and if they turn up and play there heart of Wednesday they are even more of a joke.

22 Apr 2019 12:21:51
Danny are you happy watching the same half arsed performances from the same players every week? I made a post yesterday in the match posts. Is martial doing anything greenwood or Chong couldn’t at the moment? Is Matic doing anything garner couldn’t do?

I would rather see these kids given a chance than watch the same old rubbish.

22 Apr 2019 12:24:53
Academies at top clubs are a tricky one to judge. Players coming though at top clubs need to have the ability and the mentality at a very young age if they are going to be able to make it. Also different people judge a successful academy graduate differently. For some players need to become a top world class player to be considered a "good" academy graduate.

In our current first team we have Lingard, Pogba, Rashford and McTominay who are first team regulars who have come through our academy. In Tuanzebe, Garner, Gomes and Greenwood we have four who could make the step up. Plus Chong who could, but personally I don't think he will make it at the highest level at our club.

If as a top club you have 4-5 academy players playing regularly in your first team I think you can consider that a successful academy.

In Lingard, McTominay and Rashford we have three already. if 2-3 of our current top prospects make the step up then we will have a successful academy.

For all the fuss around City's academy how many play regularly in their first team. Sancho has had to move on to make it. Foden only plays a couple of minutes every few weeks at most. Chelsea have the same issue even though they have spent a fortune on their academy. Money doesn't help if you don't have the attitude or the focus to give them a chance in the first team.

22 Apr 2019 12:39:40
Spot on Shappy.

22 Apr 2019 13:06:35
Danny, I have been calling for the youth to play for a number of reasons. Right now that squad is finished. We can move 7 out and bring in 5 but it won't do any good. If you have rotting veg in your fridge, and you slowly move some out and replace it with fresh produce, the fresh produce goes off a lot quicker.

That's one of the most expensively assembled squads in world footbal. With transfer fees and wages we are in the top 3. We need to set a precedence that turning up, accepting your weekly wage and turning in that heartless performance is unacceptable.

Put the heart back in the club. Show faith in the youth. We'll likely finish 6th with this team. Reboot the squad with young hungry players. I'd imagine most united fans would accept the good with the bad if it meant most of those players never play for us again.

22 Apr 2019 13:23:29
Why are people assuming that academy players will have the right attitude?

Has Rashford shown the right attitude over the last few weeks? Or does he only bother if he’s played centrally?

Lingard? Mr 26 going on 16? More interested in his brand than his performances on the pitch.

To Mctominay’s credit, he does seem like a good lad, but hardly looks like he’ll be more than a squad player.

There is a rotten culture right through the club, and promoting young players into a squad rife with attitude problems won’t fix that.

22 Apr 2019 13:24:42
Chelsea invested loads in the academy, but obviously that takes quite a few years before you see the fruits of that investment.

Now we're starting to get players through. Callum is playing, Ruben is playing, Christensen is a regular. Reece James and Mount have a really good chance to make it next season or the season after. So I'd say we're starting to do better now.

The issue at City is that they buy world class players for fun so it makes no sense to play young academy grads. At Chelsea we buy duds like drinkwater and Zappacosta so should make it easier to play the younger guys.

I'd say for you guys it depends on who you buy. You spend a lot, and on good players, so it makes sense to play them. I'd bet lots of Chelsea fans would really like a guy like Martial in our team for example.
You have some amazing talent, but I have no idea why it often doesn't show.

22 Apr 2019 14:23:17
Jackson I'd sell Martial to Chelsea. Maybe a swap? How about Dennis Wise, least he had a bit of fight.

22 Apr 2019 15:12:39
The world has changed since 92 when the vast majority of players in the EPL were from the British Isles. 1n 1991-2 we had only two players in the squad who were not, Schmeichel and Kanchelskis. Was there a single foreign born manager? The idea that we can return to whatever worked in 1992 is a myth.

22 Apr 2019 15:52:03
Shaw, the world has changed since Cruyff rocked up at Barcelona. Doing things his way hasn't done them any good recently.

Having tradition isn't a problem, having a way of doing things isn't a problem. It's about knowing what you need to keep and what you need to adapt.

{Ed0333's Note - let me tell you mate if you followed johan cruyffs blueprint you wouldn’t be in the mire you are in now.

22 Apr 2019 16:04:54
Ok so shall we not play the youth and just carry on as we are!

If you play some of the best youth players in some games to see what they can do then you might realise a couple of gems and move forward positively.

If you don’t then currently nothing will change.

Utd need to buy young players who are hungry and willing to play to the style set out by the manager.

I don’t want to see any more galactico type players at Utd. We have had so many of these in recent years and also none of them have worked.

Time for a new approach.

22 Apr 2019 19:36:38
Exactly. We've gone the Madrid route last few years. Its not worked. Maybe the Barcelona route is what's needed.

22 Apr 2019 20:02:26
So you think we should take the Barcelona approach without any of the world class youth infrastructure that enables Barcelona to promote from within?

The club needs a new approach from top to bottom. ‘Play the young lads’ isn’t an effective response to the long term infrastructural and cultural problems throughout the club. What we’re seeing with the first team squad is just the tip of the iceberg.

22 Apr 2019 21:18:54
It'll take years to sort this mess. But we need to start doing it now. As someone else said we have McTominay, Lingard and Rashford in the main squad. Tuanzebe, Garner, Greenwood, Chong and Gomes are close. Would any of them do any worse than Jones, Matic or Martial?

22 Apr 2019 17:38:49
Ed0333, that's my point. My post was tongue in cheek.

{Ed0333's Note - sorry if I misenterpreted you mate.

23 Apr 2019 02:26:51
Barcelona have long stopped doing things Cruyff's way - which is one of the reasons why they are not the force they used to be.

{Ed0333's Note - I agree mate.

22 Apr 2019 10:34:56
We have to keep moving forward . Appointing Phelan as DOF is not the right move. Good coach but doesn't have the wow factor to attract the world stars that we need 😁😁.

22 Apr 2019 10:53:48
BFRO

Appointing Phelan would be a poor move in my opinion and may be seen as SAF pulling the strings. As with the manager, on what basis would Phelan have the experience for the job? Perhaps he could be relied upon to accept football and monetary decisions of others without becoming frustrated?

22 Apr 2019 12:11:58
Red man
Our great club is close to repeating the mess we were in the 1970s with all these horrendous choices. 😪😪.

22 Apr 2019 15:38:13
BFRO. With respect, players we have attracted with a "wow" factor as you put it have only left me thinking "wow" what a waste of money. Leave them where they are and good luck to them. If they can con another clubs great, it will eat up their resources to compete in the transfer market.

22 Apr 2019 17:26:38
DW20
As a club we seem to be making signings that we don't need or the manager didn't want (Sanchez Fred Lukaku-Dont think Jose wanted any of them) . The correct DOF should be able to get any player we need wether its a worldie or raw talent. I agree we have been amazingly unfortunate with our wow signings over the last 5 years -Depay DiMaria to name a few. I like Phelan but i just feel it will be a big mistake if he is appointed DOF. 😁😁.

22 Apr 2019 17:57:31
SAF is still recovering from a life-threatening condition. Does anyone really think he's got the time or inclination to be 'pulling strings'?

22 Apr 2019 08:57:45
Morning all, hope you have all calmed down just a little😀
Ben thinking this morning, trying to look for some positives and just came up with this crazy theory.
Many are questioning Ole's appointment. But maybe, just maybe this may actually be a very shrewd appointment after all?
What if ( and it's a big if) Woodward and the rest of the bumbling fools have actually realised what a state the squad is, and the bad apples that are actually there . They know they need a big clear out and a rebuild. They have also found out that in recent seasons that on the whole, the fans have backed the players over 'outsider' managers, and also know if that ultimately the manager takes responsibility and that it is always going to be easier to get rid of one man rather than the players.
By appointing Ole, a club legend, they know the fans will back him, and will be right behind him in getting rid of said bad apples no matter who they are.
Maybe, just maybe there is a purpose in appointing a fans favourite, a club legend despite him not having the experience or successful managerial background that we would normally expect?

Just to make it clear, I am still unsure about Ole, but certainly not one calling for his sacking already. He was a huge risk, but like previous managers, needs to be given the time and the backing to put things right. Time will tell if he is the right man, not the last 6 weeks.

22 Apr 2019 10:53:51
He keeps mentioning next pre season which gives me a slither of hope that he is going to drill some sort of system or style of play into the players.

We are not going to get rid of all the players as people have furiously suggested, we will be lucky to get rojo and darmian off the books.

The likes of smalling, jones, young, matic, sanchez and lukaku will all be here next season. It is not looking good so you are not going to find many positives.

22 Apr 2019 11:50:21
Yes Betty, hope your theory works out.
Ole must be ruthless this summer. Clear the sulkers out.

22 Apr 2019 01:32:24
Hi Ed002
Hope you're all good?

Quick question on Mike Phelan, seems like a lot of stories are emerging about him becoming a Sporting Director? Is this true, he seems like a great guy and all but not quite the track record of a Berta, Monchi or Mitchell in their previous roles. (Not that I'm fussed just seems he's a bit of a pivot from previous characters rumoured to be considered)

And a part 2 if I may, would you be able to summarize the intended new structure?

{Ed002's Note - Yes, it is like some horrible joke isn't it.}

22 Apr 2019 00:12:43
Was David Moyes's United side the worst in EPL history?

Van Gaal - Hold my Heineken .

Jose - Hold my Sagres .

Ole - *knocks back a shot of aquavit* I've got this.

22 Apr 2019 12:16:33
All the managers at least had a preseason with the team implemented there own style and got the players on to fit that style

Its embarrassing to even associate myself with some of use on here as so called United fans.

And use wonder why other teams fans take the piss.

22 Apr 2019 13:31:24
Terrible joke.